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 Regular
Posts: 84
| I was wondering everybodys opion. How much do papers really make a difference in a barrel race like at a district run ibra show or a smaller show in general? Can just a good old cow horse run in the 2-d and place in the money? thanks  |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
  
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | you can run anything that wins and there is always a horse in an event that wasn't really bred for it, win. It is all about the individual. But certain bloodlines are proven to work in certain desciplines. So to improve your chances, pedigree really does matter. I wouldn't waste my time on a cowbred and enter it in a horse race. Just as I wouldn't do the same with a race bred and think it could get down and low and win a cutting against the 14 hand ones. |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Absolutely they can! The only real difference in pedigree is that certain bloodlines are more likely to make a good barrel horse, so people buy those bloodlines knowing that. But that doesn't mean the other bloodlines can't do it...you could have a superstar on your hands. And a lot of people think cowhorses make excellent barrel horses, as they are really ratey and turn a barrel like no other. Generally (not always) they are more push style (see other thread about push style vs. free runner), but a lot of people like that too. I'd say give it a shot, no matter what the papers say.  |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| It matters...but sometimes it doesn't. |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | For what you are asking for, I guess not. I think most any (sound) horse can be 2 or 3D locally. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Besides the horse being bred for a certain event, a pedigree provides some history on the horse's characteristic. For example: Hancock breeding seems to have some bronc in them, Frenchman's guy are late bloomers in the arena, DTF are easy to train. (Very general assumptions, don't hold me to it) That being said, ive been more successful on non-registered horses then registered. I think it depends on the horse's athletic capability, conformation, and mental state to compete. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 634
| Heck yes they can! I know many grade, unregistered, or bred for other discipline horses that do well at barrel races. BUT, I had one that was literally perfectly bred for the barrel pen and lord help him he just didn't have it. haha. With that said, if you're buying a prospect, I would take breeding into consideration. If you're buying a finished barrel horse that's kicking butt all over the place that's bred to be a halter horse or unregistered or whatever, especially if it's a gelding and wont be used for breeding, who cares? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | Yes and No. I've seen some cute local grade and cowbred horses place in 2-D, some 3-D, some 4-D, and even 1-D. Totally depends on the horse. I've also seen some racebred that can barely pull a 4-D check. Tons and tons of variables...(training, rider, confirmation, soundness, care...)
Now with that said, I do think it matters with resale price. You'll get a lot more out of the 2-D horse with the nice pedigrees than a 2-D horse without. For that reason, I try to buy something that will potentially be easier to resell. But I've certainly taken my share of gambles. Some have paid off. Others not at all.
Bottom line, there will be people adamant on both sides of the fence for this question. It's really a personal preference and pedigree or not is no guarantee it can run at all.
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | It depends on what you want the horse for. In your case, I would put less emphasis on pedigree and more on conformation. However, some horses not bred for a certain set of characteristics will not have those traits because that's not what they were intended for. What I'm trying to say is some cow horses bred to turn and be quick on a cow will not have the straightaway speed they need to clock. So when you are picking a prospect for a speed event you want to see how they move. If they cover ground with their stride instead of being short and choppy they probably will do OK. If not, they are probably not going to be all that good at the straightaways and clock slower than a faster horse no matter how they turn.
When buying a horse for a prospect that one will want to sell, pedigree is more important. It's just a fact that most people want a certain set of lines in a horse before they will take a chance on them. That's also why people will buy a horse bred for the job because if they need to sell or breed them, they are ahead of a horse with no pedigree or not bred for the job. There's a reason people at the top levels of competition in any discipline pay big bucks for the well bred horses with proven, well bred parents. But that doesn't mean there won't be a standout with no pedigree that pops up sometimes. Hot Shot and Scamper come to mind. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
| Pedigree is very important in certain cases. However, you have to buy what you can afford and I can promise you there are 1d barrel horses out there that aren't worth much based on their pedigree alone. They just aren't as common. So, if you buy something with really good confirmation, a willing attitude, and a good stride, you wont be disappointed. |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | When selling young horses papers DEFINITELY matter but if a gelding is up and running in the 1-2D I could care less what he is bred like. At that point he is proving himself. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| not in a gelding it doesn't to me.
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I would say it does and it doesn't. I had one bred to the hilt but mentally wasn't quite as stable as I would like. New owner loves him but he still doesn't clock where he should based on his pedigree. Then I run a hunt seat bred horse who is 2d/3d locally in his prime. I am currently shopping for a prospect and I am looking for something bred to do it. For a few reasons, if it doesn't work out or need to sell, I need it to be marketable which bloodlines do. I would also like to increase my chances by having one bred to do it and built to do it.
With that said, I have known and ran many grade horses who have done great things in the arena. I also grew up running the cowbred stuff who were all 1D horses at big races. One won AQHA World & Congress (not with me). So I think cowbred is "bred to do it." I personally like the mix of cow and run because neither alone are technically bred to run barrels. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | don't matter at all.
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Member
Posts: 31
| The jockey has a lot to do with it. I know a lot of fancy cow bred horses that do extremely well (rodeo winners and 1D) because that is what fits the jockey. I've seen these same jockeys not get along with race bred horses because it's just not their style. |
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Veteran
Posts: 234
| to me personally it does not matter - that being said - it matters for resale esp on mares value. |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| Life is short. I prefer to spend my time and money working with a horse I know has the genetics to do the job I want done.
You don't see people putting cutting horses in race training and you don't see jumpers in the cutting arena.
You don't expect the same marbling in a dairy cow as you do in a beef cow. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | When purchasing or breeding - yes it matters to me. |
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Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | Now with that being said the greatest horse I ever bought for my kid was a no name paint. She was not the fastest but she took care of my kid and adored her. |
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Regular
Posts: 84
| thank you everybody for answering me. I've been trying to decide weather or not to spend the few thousand on a specifically bred speed barrel horse. The one I have now is just your classic cow line, such as san peppy but has given me more confidence then any horse I've ever had when it comes to barrels. He is a push style and lets me choose the speed. Right now we run a 17.10 and still gaining speed. I had a speed bred mare dash for cash but ended up selling her. I will admit her speed scared me. She started running there was no stopping her. She was a 1-d 2-d horse. I don't want to waste my money and end up in the same problem. just trying decide which way to go. thank you again. |
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Regular
Posts: 84
| I only get geldings. I haven't had good like with mares. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | rockymountainranch71 - 2016-07-28 12:14 PM thank you everybody for answering me. I've been trying to decide weather or not to spend the few thousand on a specifically bred speed barrel horse. The one I have now is just your classic cow line, such as san peppy but has given me more confidence then any horse I've ever had when it comes to barrels. He is a push style and lets me choose the speed. Right now we run a 17.10 and still gaining speed. I had a speed bred mare dash for cash but ended up selling her. I will admit her speed scared me. She started running there was no stopping her. She was a 1-d 2-d horse. I don't want to waste my money and end up in the same problem. just trying decide which way to go. thank you again.
Cow bred does not mean the same thing as not registered. Lots of registered cow lines do great in the barrel pen.
I have seen both win, but way more registered horses win than non registered. WAY more.
For a first horse, kids horse, or a confidance builder what ever is proven is great. Had several great non registered horses. But if I buy a prospect, I'll spend the extra even for local stuff.
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| Papers are only a tool. They tell you what your horses ancestors were and what they did so you have a good idea of the potential for a certain dicipline. THATS IT. NO GUARANTEES. Your chances of having a great barrel horse are higher if both of its parents were great barrel horses. Sometimes you can breed the best sire to the best mare and get a dud with a great set of papers. It happens. Of course they help with resale value, but at the end of the day a horse is what it is. A Dash Ta Fame 1D gelding and a Grade 1D gelding are both accomplishing the same thing. However you most likely paid a lot more for the DTF because the probability of him being a great horse was much higher.
And to answer the OPs question. Yes cow lines can go in there and get the money. It happens regularly.
Edited by scwebster 2016-07-28 12:51 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I think you have better chances getting one that's bred to run and turn, but like someone else said, confirmation is also very important, depending on what you're looking for in a barrel horse, but I think longevity is important, something that will hold up in the long run. Now with that being said, the best horse I have is working cowhorse/reining and lots of foundation and old school running. But what's most important about her is her HEART. They have to want it as bad as we do! That's what makes a great barrel horse.
I'd rather have a horse with good confirmation, bone, feet and especially heart then something that says it should be good on paper. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Yes |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: SE KS | rockymountainranch71 - 2016-07-28 11:14 AM
thank you everybody for answering me. I've been trying to decide weather or not to spend the few thousand on a specifically bred speed barrel horse. The one I have now is just your classic cow line, such as san peppy but has given me more confidence then any horse I've ever had when it comes to barrels. He is a push style and lets me choose the speed. Right now we run a 17.10 and still gaining speed. I had a speed bred mare dash for cash but ended up selling her. I will admit her speed scared me. She started running there was no stopping her. She was a 1-d 2-d horse. I don't want to waste my money and end up in the same problem. just trying decide which way to go. thank you again.
After reading this statement, here is my two cents!!!
Let me start by saying I don't "like to go that fast"!!! So buying a 1D horse is not something I'm gonna go out and do, however, I have a gelding that "seems" to have more potential than I will be comfortable with needing!! As he has matured he is getting better & faster on the barrels, we went from being 4-5D one to 2 years ago to this spring a 2D buckle, I have gotten more confidence in him as we compete together.
Could this be your situation, as you & your horse work together will you become more competitive as a team? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 679
Location: The Republic of Texas | I have had both, and even bred a auction mare when I was younger, but she had exceptional conformation and a brain to go with it. Bred her with papered studs and all her babies were easy to train and did really well, never had a problem selling them. That being said, if I buy unpappered they have to be correct and show real heart. I personally believe it just depends on the horse in question. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| While I prefer certain bloodlines, I also know for every DTF(using as an example) success story there are a 100 that didn't make it. There are multiple variables that make up a 1D or rodeo winning horses. I think some people look harder at the papers than they do the actual horse. JMO |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Honestly it sounds like you are most concerned with the style of the horse than the papers. You want a push style where you can control their speed. I would look for that more than papers in your cases |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | On a grown trained horse it matters what they can do, not what's on paper. On a prospect it matters a great deal in improving your odds of it making what you want it to be.
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Ready and willing v's plug. It makes a difference. Local any thing goes .if you want the NFR. Then you want RUN in a pedigree . If you know the horse's breeding papers won't make up for it unless your after re-sale market. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | Yes. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | If they have good conformation I would like to see a good set of papers on them, but if papers arent all that great but good conformation, I would not pass because the papers were not elite.  |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | rockymountainranch71 - 2016-07-28 11:14 AM thank you everybody for answering me. I've been trying to decide weather or not to spend the few thousand on a specifically bred speed barrel horse. The one I have now is just your classic cow line, such as san peppy but has given me more confidence then any horse I've ever had when it comes to barrels. He is a push style and lets me choose the speed. Right now we run a 17.10 and still gaining speed. I had a speed bred mare dash for cash but ended up selling her. I will admit her speed scared me. She started running there was no stopping her. She was a 1-d 2-d horse. I don't want to waste my money and end up in the same problem. just trying decide which way to go. thank you again.
After reading your post, I think you already have your answer. You are mounted on a horse that gives you confidence and you say that it is gaining speed. IMO, you would be wasting your money to buy a another horse.....just for the "pedigree" ....And I have seen lots of cutting bred horses that will out turn and out run MANY race bred...... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| iloveequine40 - 2016-07-30 7:51 AM
While I prefer certain bloodlines, I also know for every DTF(using as an example) success story there are a 100 that didn't make it. There are multiple variables that make up a 1D or rodeo winning horses. I think some people look harder at the papers than they do the actual horse. JMO
Yes there are 100's of horses that don't make it.
But is it because they ended up in the wrong hands, wrong trainer, wrong farrier, wrong vet? |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | For what I do, papers matter. But, for what my mom does, they don't. I had to find the right individual for my mom- a safe, smaller horse that was willing and athletic, but not hot or on the muscle. Ended up with a nice little cow bred mare, that has plenty of talent and ability but not bred to be a BARREL HORSE. So honestly, my only requirement when looking for my mom a horse was that it was registered, not a certain bloodline.
For our barrel babies, pedigree matters a lot. People want to take the gamble on the futurities with babies that are bred to run at that level. Not saying you have to have that pedigree to run, but it puts the odds in your favor.
We have three weanlings this year. Two of them are by popular barrel stallions out of popular broodmare lines. The third one was a surprise (mare was pregnant when we bought her unbeknownst to anyone) and is out my mom's mare (who is bred pretty well for a working cowhides apparently) by some little bay colt (now gelding). Because her sire was a live cover baby, by accident as well, no one DNAed him.So when it all got down to registering our filly, he had to be DNAed and it came up that he didn't match his own papers. So long story short, she's probably not getting registered. She is the biggest foal of the crop, looks phenomenal, and you wouldn't be able to pick her out as being the "oops." However, she's worth a fraction of what the other two are, and has had very little interest in her, all because she's grade. Once she's old enough to prove herself as a riding or competing horse, she will probably be worth a bit more. But at her age, she's SOL. |
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Location: Illinois | Yes. |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | scwebster - 2016-07-28 12:49 PM Papers are only a tool. They tell you what your horses ancestors were and what they did so you have a good idea of the potential for a certain dicipline. THATS IT. NO GUARANTEES. Your chances of having a great barrel horse are higher if both of its parents were great barrel horses. Sometimes you can breed the best sire to the best mare and get a dud with a great set of papers. It happens. Of course they help with resale value, but at the end of the day a horse is what it is. A Dash Ta Fame 1D gelding and a Grade 1D gelding are both accomplishing the same thing. However you most likely paid a lot more for the DTF because the probability of him being a great horse was much higher.
And to answer the OPs question. Yes cow lines can go in there and get the money. It happens regularly.
Yes, but to that person that made that grade 1D horse, how many other grade horses did they go through before they got the 1D one? Seasoning one takes as much money on a grade horse as it does on a barrel bred horse and in my experience that is where the biggest chunk of money goes - not to the purchase. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| streakysox - 2016-07-30 1:38 AM
If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought
I am kind of confused by your comment... What is your idea barrel bloodlines? Because I do agree with you that horses are either cowbred or racebred but there are not many bloodlines that are "barrel bred." They usually come from a combo. FWF and FG are probably two of the most "Barrel Blood" I can think of. Both of those go back to a lot of foundations, cow type bloodlines.
I am merely curious, not intended to be snarky  |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
Location: South Central Florida | stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:34 PM streakysox - 2016-07-30 1:38 AM If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought I am kind of confused by your comment... What is your idea barrel bloodlines? Because I do agree with you that horses are either cowbred or racebred but there are not many bloodlines that are "barrel bred." They usually come from a combo. FWF and FG are probably two of the most "Barrel Blood" I can think of. Both of those go back to a lot of foundations, cow type bloodlines. I am merely curious, not intended to be snarky
Dash Ta Fame, Dash For Perks, On the Money Red, Bugs Alive in 75, Streak of Fling . . . there are many that excell in the Barrel pen, but never did a lot in the Race Track. I think years ago the best way was speed with cutting or reining. Today there is a very large marked of exceptional breeding that are specifically for the Barrel Racing Arena. Those lines came from crossing run with cow, but it's been several generations of good breding that make them "Barrel" racing lines.
There are also many that are specifically bred for Reining, or Cutting and even Roping as well as obviously for Racing.
I think the post was saying, if those blood lines excell in one or another type of eventing.
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Swannranch - 2016-08-01 2:02 PM
stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:34 PM streakysox - 2016-07-30 1:38 AM If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought I am kind of confused by your comment... What is your idea barrel bloodlines? Because I do agree with you that horses are either cowbred or racebred but there are not many bloodlines that are "barrel bred." They usually come from a combo. FWF and FG are probably two of the most "Barrel Blood" I can think of. Both of those go back to a lot of foundations, cow type bloodlines. I am merely curious, not intended to be snarky
There are also many that are specifically bred for Reining, or Cutting and even Roping as well as obviously for Racing.
I think the post was saying, if those blood lines excell in one or another type of eventing.
I see what you're saying. I guess I was considering the bloodline type alone...
I see BA75, DTF, ASOF more race bred who happened to excel in barrels. Just as Louie for example, is cowbred but also happens to excel in barrels. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:41 PM
Swannranch - 2016-08-01 2:02 PM
stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:34 PM streakysox - 2016-07-30 1:38 AM If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought I am kind of confused by your comment... What is your idea barrel bloodlines? Because I do agree with you that horses are either cowbred or racebred but there are not many bloodlines that are "barrel bred." They usually come from a combo. FWF and FG are probably two of the most "Barrel Blood" I can think of. Both of those go back to a lot of foundations, cow type bloodlines. I am merely curious, not intended to be snarky
There are also many that are specifically bred for Reining, or Cutting and even Roping as well as obviously for Racing.
I think the post was saying, if those blood lines excell in one or another type of eventing.
I see what you're saying. I guess I was considering the bloodline type alone...
I see BA75, DTF, ASOF more race bred who happened to excel in barrels. Just as Louie for example, is cowbred but also happens to excel in barrels.
Louie is cow on top and definitely all race on the bottom.
All the stallions mentioned in Swannranch's post are AAA/AAAT. Bugs Alive won the All American Futurity which is the premier race for AQHA horses. It's like winning the Kentucky Derby in TB's. It doesn't get any better. They all also sired many race babies with the possible exception of OTMR. I do agree with Swann that they are known in barrel racing circles as being some of the BEST sires of barrel racing horses that ever were. I call them 'crossover' lines. So a horse can be very good on the track and also be a great barrel horse line to tap into.
But when I think of horses who are "barrel bred" I think of FWF, FG, SF, Biankus (here in the NW). They have many foals that make barrel horses consistently and haven't made a sire in any other discipline. They are unique and sought after to the barrel industry. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| OregonBR - 2016-08-02 12:06 PM
stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:41 PM
Swannranch - 2016-08-01 2:02 PM
stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:34 PM streakysox - 2016-07-30 1:38 AM If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought I am kind of confused by your comment... What is your idea barrel bloodlines? Because I do agree with you that horses are either cowbred or racebred but there are not many bloodlines that are "barrel bred." They usually come from a combo. FWF and FG are probably two of the most "Barrel Blood" I can think of. Both of those go back to a lot of foundations, cow type bloodlines. I am merely curious, not intended to be snarky
There are also many that are specifically bred for Reining, or Cutting and even Roping as well as obviously for Racing.
I think the post was saying, if those blood lines excell in one or another type of eventing.
I see what you're saying. I guess I was considering the bloodline type alone...
I see BA75, DTF, ASOF more race bred who happened to excel in barrels. Just as Louie for example, is cowbred but also happens to excel in barrels.
Louie is cow on top and definitely all race on the bottom.
All the stallions mentioned in Swannranch's post are AAA/AAAT. Bugs Alive won the All American Futurity which is the premier race for AQHA horses. It's like winning the Kentucky Derby in TB's. It doesn't get any better. They all also sired many race babies with the possible exception of OTMR. I do agree with Swann that they are known in barrel racing circles as being some of the BEST sires of barrel racing horses that ever were. I call them 'crossover' lines. So a horse can be very good on the track and also be a great barrel horse line to tap into.
But when I think of horses who are "barrel bred" I think of FWF, FG, SF, Biankus (here in the NW ). They have many foals that make barrel horses consistently and haven't made a sire in any other discipline. They are unique and sought after to the barrel industry.
I guess my standpoint was that there are very few "barrel bloodlines." Most of them are race or cow who happened to excel in barrels. Coming back to the original topic that successful barrel horses can be made from various recipes. I wouldn't hesitate taking a race bred horse to the barrel pen, I also wouldn't hesitate taking a cowbred horse to the barrel pen. Both are technically bred for race or cow but an athletic bloodline is an athletic bloodline. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | stayceem - 2016-08-02 12:52 PM
OregonBR - 2016-08-02 12:06 PM
stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:41 PM
Swannranch - 2016-08-01 2:02 PM
stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:34 PM streakysox - 2016-07-30 1:38 AM If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought I am kind of confused by your comment... What is your idea barrel bloodlines? Because I do agree with you that horses are either cowbred or racebred but there are not many bloodlines that are "barrel bred." They usually come from a combo. FWF and FG are probably two of the most "Barrel Blood" I can think of. Both of those go back to a lot of foundations, cow type bloodlines. I am merely curious, not intended to be snarky
There are also many that are specifically bred for Reining, or Cutting and even Roping as well as obviously for Racing.
I think the post was saying, if those blood lines excell in one or another type of eventing.
I see what you're saying. I guess I was considering the bloodline type alone...
I see BA75, DTF, ASOF more race bred who happened to excel in barrels. Just as Louie for example, is cowbred but also happens to excel in barrels.
Louie is cow on top and definitely all race on the bottom.
All the stallions mentioned in Swannranch's post are AAA/AAAT. Bugs Alive won the All American Futurity which is the premier race for AQHA horses. It's like winning the Kentucky Derby in TB's. It doesn't get any better. They all also sired many race babies with the possible exception of OTMR. I do agree with Swann that they are known in barrel racing circles as being some of the BEST sires of barrel racing horses that ever were. I call them 'crossover' lines. So a horse can be very good on the track and also be a great barrel horse line to tap into.
But when I think of horses who are "barrel bred" I think of FWF, FG, SF, Biankus (here in the NW ). They have many foals that make barrel horses consistently and haven't made a sire in any other discipline. They are unique and sought after to the barrel industry.
I guess my standpoint was that there are very few "barrel bloodlines." Most of them are race or cow who happened to excel in barrels. Coming back to the original topic that successful barrel horses can be made from various recipes. I wouldn't hesitate taking a race bred horse to the barrel pen, I also wouldn't hesitate taking a cowbred horse to the barrel pen. Both are technically bred for race or cow but an athletic bloodline is an athletic bloodline.
You are correct. There are few "barrel bred" stallions/lines. But we're not drawing on 50+ years of selective breeding like the cutting/reining industry. Or 100's of years like the race industry. The quarter horse was first and foremost a racehorse with a secondary job as a cow horse when the need was seen in the early settlement of the United States. But as we go, we are seeing horses bred to be barrel horses in the first and second generation. Some into the 3rd generation. At some point we will see entire pedigrees that are barrel racing driven.
30+ years ago you could find horses in a 5 generation pedigree of a nice racehorse who wasn't raced or produced any racehorses. Now you can't hardly find a racehorse without 10 generations of strong race pedigree. |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| OregonBR - 2016-08-02 4:57 PM
stayceem - 2016-08-02 12:52 PM
OregonBR - 2016-08-02 12:06 PM
stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:41 PM
Swannranch - 2016-08-01 2:02 PM
stayceem - 2016-08-01 1:34 PM streakysox - 2016-07-30 1:38 AM If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought I am kind of confused by your comment... What is your idea barrel bloodlines? Because I do agree with you that horses are either cowbred or racebred but there are not many bloodlines that are "barrel bred." They usually come from a combo. FWF and FG are probably two of the most "Barrel Blood" I can think of. Both of those go back to a lot of foundations, cow type bloodlines. I am merely curious, not intended to be snarky
There are also many that are specifically bred for Reining, or Cutting and even Roping as well as obviously for Racing.
I think the post was saying, if those blood lines excell in one or another type of eventing.
I see what you're saying. I guess I was considering the bloodline type alone...
I see BA75, DTF, ASOF more race bred who happened to excel in barrels. Just as Louie for example, is cowbred but also happens to excel in barrels.
Louie is cow on top and definitely all race on the bottom.
All the stallions mentioned in Swannranch's post are AAA/AAAT. Bugs Alive won the All American Futurity which is the premier race for AQHA horses. It's like winning the Kentucky Derby in TB's. It doesn't get any better. They all also sired many race babies with the possible exception of OTMR. I do agree with Swann that they are known in barrel racing circles as being some of the BEST sires of barrel racing horses that ever were. I call them 'crossover' lines. So a horse can be very good on the track and also be a great barrel horse line to tap into.
But when I think of horses who are "barrel bred" I think of FWF, FG, SF, Biankus (here in the NW ). They have many foals that make barrel horses consistently and haven't made a sire in any other discipline. They are unique and sought after to the barrel industry.
I guess my standpoint was that there are very few "barrel bloodlines." Most of them are race or cow who happened to excel in barrels. Coming back to the original topic that successful barrel horses can be made from various recipes. I wouldn't hesitate taking a race bred horse to the barrel pen, I also wouldn't hesitate taking a cowbred horse to the barrel pen. Both are technically bred for race or cow but an athletic bloodline is an athletic bloodline.
You are correct. There are few "barrel bred" stallions/lines. But we're not drawing on 50+ years of selective breeding like the cutting/reining industry. Or 100's of years like the race industry. The quarter horse was first and foremost a racehorse with a secondary job as a cow horse when the need was seen in the early settlement of the United States. But as we go, we are seeing horses bred to be barrel horses in the first and second generation. Some into the 3rd generation. At some point we will see entire pedigrees that are barrel racing driven.
30+ years ago you could find horses in a 5 generation pedigree of a nice racehorse who wasn't raced or produced any racehorses. Now you can't hardly find a racehorse without 10 generations of strong race pedigree.
I never thought of it that way. Very interesting and so true. It will be interesting to see what prospects papers look like in 20+ years. |
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Expert
Posts: 2128
| linds - 2016-08-01 10:29 AM scwebster - 2016-07-28 12:49 PM Papers are only a tool. They tell you what your horses ancestors were and what they did so you have a good idea of the potential for a certain dicipline. THATS IT. NO GUARANTEES. Your chances of having a great barrel horse are higher if both of its parents were great barrel horses. Sometimes you can breed the best sire to the best mare and get a dud with a great set of papers. It happens. Of course they help with resale value, but at the end of the day a horse is what it is. A Dash Ta Fame 1D gelding and a Grade 1D gelding are both accomplishing the same thing. However you most likely paid a lot more for the DTF because the probability of him being a great horse was much higher.
And to answer the OPs question. Yes cow lines can go in there and get the money. It happens regularly.
Yes, but to that person that made that grade 1D horse, how many other grade horses did they go through before they got the 1D one? Seasoning one takes as much money on a grade horse as it does on a barrel bred horse and in my experience that is where the biggest chunk of money goes - not to the purchase.
Good point. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | scwebster - 2016-08-03 9:46 AM
linds - 2016-08-01 10:29 AM scwebster - 2016-07-28 12:49 PM Papers are only a tool. They tell you what your horses ancestors were and what they did so you have a good idea of the potential for a certain dicipline. THATS IT. NO GUARANTEES. Your chances of having a great barrel horse are higher if both of its parents were great barrel horses. Sometimes you can breed the best sire to the best mare and get a dud with a great set of papers. It happens. Of course they help with resale value, but at the end of the day a horse is what it is. A Dash Ta Fame 1D gelding and a Grade 1D gelding are both accomplishing the same thing. However you most likely paid a lot more for the DTF because the probability of him being a great horse was much higher.
And to answer the OPs question. Yes cow lines can go in there and get the money. It happens regularly.
Yes, but to that person that made that grade 1D horse, how many other grade horses did they go through before they got the 1D one? Seasoning one takes as much money on a grade horse as it does on a barrel bred horse and in my experience that is where the biggest chunk of money goes - not to the purchase.
My grade cow and foundation bred mare who I paid $500 for outran my running bred packin sixes mare anyday of the week. The difference was my grade mare had a bigger heart and loved to work.
I paid a lot more for my papered mare.
Edited by RnRJack 2016-08-03 7:05 PM
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does pedigree really matter?