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Elite Veteran
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| I've been tasked with appraising horses as part of a estate in which there is no will. Needless to say it's an UGLY situation. I need input.
I have a Coronado Cartel(booked full in '15 and '16) 5 month old filly out of a Hadif(TB) mare that lost her right eye at 5 days old. The mares(unraced) first foal will hit the track at Lonestar this fall. The filly is ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS and conformationally correct. Nice feet and bone. Sweet disposition and has adjusted well to having one eye. However, the other negative, she has a hernia on her belly that needs to be clamped. What is a realistic monetary value of this filly? I'm NOT trying to sell her just need input on value. Thanks in advance! |
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| Poor thing. I would say a we need to know more about the mare to get a good value but maybe $2000-$2500. Fixing up that hernia would help her a lot. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
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Location: Kansas | One eye, and hernia (which will cost buyer $$$ to clamp)......$2,000
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| Thank you. The mare is an unraced(due to injury) TB by City Street, unimpressive out of fleet a dif who won 130k I believe. I don't have info in front of me so I reserve the right to be wrong on stats. The mares 2014, first foal is supposed to race at lonestar this fall.
The eye surgery was approximately $800. Due to the crazy dysfunctional people involved I'm worried the judge will most likely order them to all be sold. Trying to figure out do we invest $ to fix hernia or offer her to someone at a heavy discount. First and foremost, I want what's best for the horses, particularly this filly given her handicap already. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | There once was a similarly flawed Palomino with one eye from South Dakota. The dumb asses didn't geld him either. Can you imagine such stupidity? |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Hernia surgery cost about $300. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| You did not mention if the filly has been registered yet. As part of an estate, this could be a serious problem. Also if registered, the filly will be appendix. This does not bother me but may bother others. No papers in hand, the filly is not worth much. |
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Elite Veteran
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| I know how much the hernia surgery costs. She is not registered but can be. She would NOT be sold without the papers to do so. Bear, I certainly don't discount his filly but I have 17 horses I'm responsible for right now and am trying to appraise them fairly. I have to answer to a lot of people for every penny I spend. This is very difficult situation. I love these animals. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 1:51 PM I know how much the hernia surgery costs. She is not registered but can be. She would NOT be sold without the papers to do so. Bear, I certainly don't discount his filly but I have 17 horses I'm responsible for right now and am trying to appraise them fairly. I have to answer to a lot of people for every penny I spend. This is very difficult situation. I love these animals.
yes but the person that died probably thought pretty highly of their horses and this filly so i think having the surgery would be in the horses best interest. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Bear - 2016-08-02 2:38 PM There once was a similarly flawed Palomino with one eye from South Dakota. The dumb asses didn't geld him either. Can you imagine such stupidity?
And they're still breeding him! Morons! |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 3:51 PM I know how much the hernia surgery costs. She is not registered but can be. She would NOT be sold without the papers to do so. Bear, I certainly don't discount his filly but I have 17 horses I'm responsible for right now and am trying to appraise them fairly. I have to answer to a lot of people for every penny I spend. This is very difficult situation. I love these animals. Then the answer is simple, isn't it?
I liquidated a herd of horses that I reposessed... averaged $200/head. That will give you a realistic comparable value.
Edited by Whiteboy 2016-08-02 4:21 PM
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Elite Veteran
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| The person that died has been gone for 17 months. The mare had just been bred. She never saw her. I KNOW she would love her and would want what's best for her. I WANT what's best for her. The husband/owner has been advised by his attorneys to sell them TO STOP THE FINANCIAL BLEEDING. As the manager of the horses I'm just trying to get a fair market value because I HAVE to answer to the court for every dollar spent, for every horse sold etc. We have authority to sell the horses be it was a business partnership between husband/wife and he is administrator of her Estate. I have breeders report and transfer/foal registeration papers ready to go for any foals I sell.
Bear, I don't know what horse you're talking about. I'm certainly NOT discounting this filly at all. She could be an amazing horse. I don't want to sell her personally but it's not up to me.
Let me try this again:
What would a one eyed filly with a hernia with her breeding be worth, period. Buyers WILL be able to register her!
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 5:20 PM Let me try this again: What would a one eyed filly with a hernia with her breeding be worth, period. Buyers WILL be able to register her!
$500-1000 if you found the right person.
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | 1DSoon - 2016-08-02 4:37 PM iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 5:20 PM Let me try this again: What would a one eyed filly with a hernia with her breeding be worth, period. Buyers WILL be able to register her! $500-1000 if you found the right person.
Edit to add I dont trust much when somebody tells me a horse can be reg. in a situation like this. If who ever does buy her they need to check with AQHA and make sure the studs and mares papers are in order and the stud report has been sent in. I didnt read all the replys so you may have said the papers are in order.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2016-08-02 4:46 PM
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Elite Veteran
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| Thank you |
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Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 4:20 PM
The person that died has been gone for 17 months. The mare had just been bred. She never saw her. I KNOW she would love her and would want what's best for her. I WANT what's best for her. The husband/owner has been advised by his attorneys to sell them TO STOP THE FINANCIAL BLEEDING. As the manager of the horses I'm just trying to get a fair market value because I HAVE to answer to the court for every dollar spent, for every horse sold etc. We have authority to sell the horses be it was a business partnership between husband/wife and he is administrator of her Estate. I have breeders report and transfer/foal registeration papers ready to go for any foals I sell.
Bear, I don't know what horse you're talking about. I'm certainly NOT discounting this filly at all. She could be an amazing horse. I don't want to sell her personally but it's not up to me.
Let me try this again:
What would a one eyed filly with a hernia with her breeding be worth, period. Buyers WILL be able to register her!
Bear is talking about Frenchman's Guy. You don't sound like you're discounting the filly, I don't think his comment was meant that way.
The rule of thumb is that weanlings are worth 2-3x the stud fee. Unraced, unproven mare, we'll go with just twice. That's $5000. I know a hernia surgery runs about $500 in my area, but I think you have to account for more than just the cost of surgery, you have to account for the trouble of it, people could just as easily find a prospect without one, so knock $1500 off. That's $3500. I don't know how you put value on an eyeball, but I definitely think people are going to shy away from it as a major fault. I would knock another $1500 off that and price her at $2000.
Just one person's opinion. Best of luck with her! |
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Elite Veteran
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| She comes with everything needed to be registered. I've had ZERO issues with all the previous foals sold and the new owner getting them registered. It costs a little more bc of DNA testing but that's it |
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Elite Veteran
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| All papers for stallion, mare and transfers are correct and in place. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 4:52 PM
All papers for stallion, mare and transfers are correct and in place.
Thats good. |
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The Advice Guru
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| iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 4:46 PM
She comes with everything needed to be registered. I've had ZERO issues with all the previous foals sold and the new owner getting them registered. It costs a little more bc of DNA testing but that's it
You have to get the executator (sp) of the will to sign the registration application plus the transfer and i beleive have it notarized or aqha will not accept it.
To me I wont buy one with this baggage on it as I bought one from an estate, nice mare, aqha wouldnt complete the transfer even though I had everything in order, (will ,court documents, signed transfer and the papers) |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| Bear - 2016-08-02 2:38 PM
There once was a similarly flawed Palomino with one eye from South Dakota. The dumb asses didn't geld him either. Can you imagine such stupidity?
Do you think you can behave yourself??? |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | cheryl makofka - 2016-08-02 5:06 PM iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 4:46 PM She comes with everything needed to be registered. I've had ZERO issues with all the previous foals sold and the new owner getting them registered. It costs a little more bc of DNA testing but that's it You have to get the executator (sp ) of the will to sign the registration application plus the transfer and i beleive have it notarized or aqha will not accept it. To me I wont buy one with this baggage on it as I bought one from an estate, nice mare, aqha wouldnt complete the transfer even though I had everything in order, (will ,court documents, signed transfer and the papers )
Yep, been there and done that, wont never do it again unless I have papers and signed transfer in hand. |
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Elite Veteran
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| I already know all this. Been doing this for a year and a half. Again have had ZERO issues as we have all legal docs in place. I simply needed value information. Only offered explanation(regrettably) to try to stave off the get her fixed commentary. The emotional and mental aspects of caring for these animals is exhausting bc not any of the heirs, save the surviving owner give two eggs about them only their value. So please, I'm asking nicely, save me the lectures and guilt. I feel terrible enough about it |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| How much have you been getting from the other colts you have been selling?
Interestingly enough there are no sale results yet on Coronado Cartel foals.
Edited by Whiteboy 2016-08-02 5:37 PM
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Meanest Teacher!!!
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Location: sunny california | iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 3:26 PM I already know all this. Been doing this for a year and a half. Again have had ZERO issues as we have all legal docs in place. I simply needed value information. Only offered explanation(regrettably) to try to stave off the get her fixed commentary. The emotional and mental aspects of caring for these animals is exhausting bc not any of the heirs, save the surviving owner give two eggs about them only their value. So please, I'm asking nicely, save me the lectures and guilt. I feel terrible enough about it
Sorry I did not mean to guilt you. I thought you were one of the heirs and in the will you got the responsibility of the horses |
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Elite Veteran
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| I've sold 10 horses in the last year ranging from weanling to 3 yr olds from $2500-20k This was our first Coronado Cartel, this is my first "handicap". I was devastated when I found her blind in that eye. I took every precaution. I know he was booked full again this year super early. |
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Elite Veteran
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| No kwantha. I've worked for them for years and when she suddenly passed I literally took over everything as the husband had no knowledge about the "business" side of it ie financial, paperwork, etc. I never met her children until after she passed. Estranged. When this is all settled I will be unemployed but at peace bc I loved these horses the way she did and I did everything with honesty and integrity. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| Southtxponygirl - 2016-08-02 5:17 PM
cheryl makofka - 2016-08-02 5:06 PM iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 4:46 PM She comes with everything needed to be registered. I've had ZERO issues with all the previous foals sold and the new owner getting them registered. It costs a little more bc of DNA testing but that's it You have to get the executator (sp ) of the will to sign the registration application plus the transfer and i beleive have it notarized or aqha will not accept it. To me I wont buy one with this baggage on it as I bought one from an estate, nice mare, aqha wouldnt complete the transfer even though I had everything in order, (will ,court documents, signed transfer and the papers )
That is what I was trying to saying. No papers in hand no value. Sounds easy but may not be. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | streakysox - 2016-08-02 6:01 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2016-08-02 5:17 PM
cheryl makofka - 2016-08-02 5:06 PM iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 4:46 PM She comes with everything needed to be registered. I've had ZERO issues with all the previous foals sold and the new owner getting them registered. It costs a little more bc of DNA testing but that's it You have to get the executator (sp ) of the will to sign the registration application plus the transfer and i beleive have it notarized or aqha will not accept it. To me I wont buy one with this baggage on it as I bought one from an estate, nice mare, aqha wouldnt complete the transfer even though I had everything in order, (will ,court documents, signed transfer and the papers )
That is what I was trying to saying. No papers in hand no value. Sounds easy but may not be.
I agree  |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 5:26 PM
I already know all this. Been doing this for a year and a half. Again have had ZERO issues as we have all legal docs in place. I simply needed value information. Only offered explanation(regrettably) to try to stave off the get her fixed commentary. The emotional and mental aspects of caring for these animals is exhausting bc not any of the heirs, save the surviving owner give two eggs about them only their value. So please, I'm asking nicely, save me the lectures and guilt. I feel terrible enough about it
Since the papers are not in hand, and a lot of people have had bad experiences with the situation you have described, the pool of people willing to buy has dropped significantly.
Unless it is a smoking deal
One eyed, no papers in hand top dollar I would say is 1500 and the colt may move within a month
If you are able to sit on the colt for awhile 2k may take 2-4 months to sell
If you need to sell right away 1k would probably sell the next day |
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Elite Veteran
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 5:48 PM
No kwantha. I've worked for them for years and when she suddenly passed I literally took over everything as the husband had no knowledge about the "business" side of it ie financial, paperwork, etc. I never met her children until after she passed. Estranged. When this is all settled I will be unemployed but at peace bc I loved these horses the way she did and I did everything with honesty and integrity.
I commend you for your honesty and mostly for caring about the horses' welfare above all else. I've been on the family side of bad situations like this, and I cannot imagine what you're going thru as an innocent bystander. . . . . Again, I'm glad you see the horses as more than dollar signs. |
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 Elite Veteran
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Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | iloveequine40 - 2016-08-02 6:26 PM I already know all this. Been doing this for a year and a half. Again have had ZERO issues as we have all legal docs in place. I simply needed value information. Only offered explanation(regrettably) to try to stave off the get her fixed commentary. The emotional and mental aspects of caring for these animals is exhausting bc not any of the heirs, save the surviving owner give two eggs about them only their value. So please, I'm asking nicely, save me the lectures and guilt. I feel terrible enough about it
I think most of the responses were confused as they thought you were an heir. I think what you are doing is really respectable and great! As for the filly, it's a hard one to price due to being appendix (many people shy from) and then the stud hasn't been around long enough to see what his offspring does on the track or arena. Then add in the hernia and one eye and even though you have the papers ready to go - it will be more costly and scare some people away. I think realistically if you got $1,500 you would be very lucky. IMO I'd try to find a good home for her and not worry so much about the financial side on this one. Write this one off as a loss and do the best you can in placing her somewhere good with a low price tag. Hang in there...sounds like a nightmare situation. Keep us posted! |
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 Some Kind of Trouble
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| This may be a stupid question, and has little to do with opinion on her value, but why can't she be registered before selling? That would at least maybe interest more people who would be scared off by that risk. |
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 Expert
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Location: The best kept secret in TX | I know people who have down right horrible experiences purchasing from an estate sale. The only thing this filly has going for her is her sire is booked and has been booked, and well, she's a filly.... Off spring has yet to be proven. What happens if the filly doesn't sell by the fall and the offspring that is supposed to race fails miserably?
Until you get her registered and prove to me as a buyer she can be registered, or until you get the hernia taken care of I myself wouldn't spend more than $500 on her. Not because she's a bad bred filly or because she's handicapped but simply because there are so many variables that are up in the air, I wouldn't want to make an investment on a filly that may or may not be registered and that may or may not cost an arm and a leg to have surgery for or that may or may not be ran succesfully or bred succesfully (No proof of registration) ... People aren't saying you are lying or that you don't have all the necesary papers. People have simply been told that how many times? and AQHA has still refused registration to them will all documents in hand. |
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 Elite Veteran
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Location: Running my kids somewhere. | You have my best wishes as you move forward. I had to do something similar but only for a few horses. How fast do they want the estate closed? Will they allow you to have work done on the filly before she is sold? If not I would not go over $1500. With time, her faults and the situation I would be worry about going any higher. I'm sorry you are dealing with this, but at least in the end you know they will be taken care of and the previous owner will be looking out for you. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I would just send in the paper work for the filly, get her papers and get her hernia fixed. So that way you have papers in hand with a signed transfer and no hernia and go from there on the pricing of the filly. Someone may be willing to pay more for her this way. I know I would. |
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| You are on too much of an emotional trip to make the right business decisions for this estate ....... you should step aside and let the executor and his lawyers hold an auction to get rid of the Financial Bleeding ...
You have had 17 months to get all of these horses registered, transfers signed with descriptive photo packets on each and placed in the executor's hands and we hear your defensive indignant statement of all the papers are in hand ... you are supposed to be a knowledgeable employee and not a hindrance getting this estate closed for the husband and children regardless of their interest or your feelings.
FYI: AQHA, JOCKEY CLUB has to have a death certificate, statements galore from the court and other parties involved that should have been completed long ago!!
If you are concerned about this filly .. then ask permission to buy her at the price you are pushing to get while knowing this one eyed hernia inflicted filly wouldn't bring $250 at a sale. Unproven sire and out of a $300 unraced aged TB mare!!
As the horse representative ..... what's the total head count of horses ... is the estate being billed for horses in training and what is your feeding program and are you capable of vetting most of your problems or one of these that have daily vet calls to your barn ??????????????
We know you are drawing a salary so it is your obligation ethically and loyalty wise to get a move on and get this situation under control as quickly as possible ... and stop acting like a rescue farm. With the lapse of 17 months and no sale packets completed on any of the horses, training bills still flowing in .... step aside and let the executor and court handle it.
As far as prices go ... TB's are going for free or almost nothing bred or not bred; healthy appendix babies are under a $1000, typical qh mares $500 to $3500 if the right bidder is there ...
FYI:
If they own Coronado Cartel ... he needs to be sold immediately .... the advertising monies, care costs and breeding facility charges to the owners are almost sinful ..... He stands at a major stallion station so his advertising is a minimum of $10,000/year paid up front by the owners when stallion is accepted into their stallion battery and continues year by year. At $2500 stud fee the owners are very very lucky to end up with $500 for each mare bred.
Looking at the posters as bidders ... let's let their suggested sale prices be their bid and let the highest price fork over the money and buy this filly!!
ALL SALES ARE FINAL WITH NO RETURNS ...
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2016-08-03 6:56 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| Thank you for the supportive answers. All the horses ARE registered except for the '16 foals. I'm about to start the paperwork for them. I work closely with the AQHA, administrator and lawyers and have had ZERO issues. I understand and respect some of you have had bad experiences with these types of sales. I'm not asking anyone to buy her. I simply needed information regarding her value at this time. We are working on estate inventory andd values. Because of the issues with this particular filly we have to justify investing more $.
To the jerk that said I need to step aside: what a a cowardly thing to do? It's my job as assistant to the executor to help in all manners. I should quit because it's stressful? I'm allowed to have personal feelings but that doesn't mean I can't advise, advocate and make logical decisions. Is that what you do when the going gets tough? Quit?
And NO we don't own Coronado Cartel...what an absolute ridiculous ASSumption. I expected criticism but wow you're hateful. |
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Elite Veteran
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| Your between the lines accusations are way out of line. My "salary" is laughable. You seem like a bitter person who doesn't believe that there are honest and good people to do things with honesty and integrity. Where the HELL did I say this was a rescue? This is one filly and her condition? I came here for help, not to be a martyr, not a judgement/condemnation. The executor has done everything by the book on the advice of his attorneys. You drew a lot of conclusions and made assumption that are so far out in left field, OMG. You sound like a moron |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
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| iloveequine40 - 2016-08-04 6:15 AM
Your between the lines accusations are way out of line. My "salary" is laughable. You seem like a bitter person who doesn't believe that there are honest and good people to do things with honesty and integrity. Where the HELL did I say this was a rescue? This is one filly and her condition? I came here for help, not to be a martyr, not a judgement/condemnation. The executor has done everything by the book on the advice of his attorneys. You drew a lot of conclusions and made assumption that are so far out in left field, OMG. You sound like a moron
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 More bootie than waist!
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Location: Riding Crackhead. | iloveequine40 - 2016-08-04 6:15 AM Your between the lines accusations are way out of line. My "salary" is laughable. You seem like a bitter person who doesn't believe that there are honest and good people to do things with honesty and integrity. Where the HELL did I say this was a rescue? This is one filly and her condition? I came here for help, not to be a martyr, not a judgement/condemnation. The executor has done everything by the book on the advice of his attorneys. You drew a lot of conclusions and made assumption that are so far out in left field, OMG. You sound like a moron
you hit the nail on the head |
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One eyed weanling value