|
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 885
  
| I wanted to share the info I got on this with you all. I had never heard of this, but a lady I know, her horse died from it. Thought if you didn't know about this disease, you might want to learn about it. Very scary & very sad.
In honor of my horse Majestic Sign (Celeb) I want to spread awareness of the terrible disease that took him. Thank you so much to everyone who posted on my sad news about losing him. If you are in Texas east of I35 and your horses are on pasture they are in very real danger of getting Equine nasopharyngeal/tracheal Cicatrix. It is a debilitating disease with no known cause. It is especially bad with the wet year we are having then the hot sun on the wet grass. It is thought to be possibly caused by a fungal spore but no one knows. The symptoms start out as a cough and cold and often the snot is very white. Scoping will show whitish lesions and blisters on the throat and all the way down into the trachea. This acute stage is then followed by a build up of scar tissue which results in exercise intolerance. It will eventually suffocate them without a permanent tracheostomy. They can be used sometimes for many years with the trach. It just didn't work for Celeb. It kept collapsing when he would take a deep breath. He got along ok the past several years as a pasture pet as long as he didn't run around too much. But he loved to run and that's what did him in with the heat and humidity this week. He ran real hard across his pasture and the tracheostomy just collapsed real bad. And there was no coming back from it this time. So the call had to be made. So everyone take heed. There is a pythium vaccine which may help. But there is no solid proof yet, also something about nebulizing colloidal silver may be helping. My other horses are vaccinated yearly. Celeb was vaccinated too but he already had the acute stage by the time I got a diagnosis. If anyone has any new info about research or treatments please post! Please share this post with all your horse owning friends especially in this area.
|
|
| |
|
I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I have nothing new, but wanted warn people that the vaccine does not always work. I have a friend whose mare was on the vaccine but this summer she had to retire her from the barrel pen due to massive scarring.
Edited by GLP 2016-09-07 7:40 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | My horse was diagnosed with this in July, 2015. I have owned him his entire life and he is 14 this year. He has a life long history of coughing & allergies. Yes, I live east of I35 and my horses are out on coastal bermuda pasture. He got so bad one year that I couldn't even ride him at a walk without him having a coughing attack. He also started bleeding after a run. Vet just recommended scoping every 6 months to keep an eye on him. I started him on Curost Total Equine & Immune & Repair with phenomenol results. I am now only giving him the Total. I do keep him in EXCELLENT condition and I breeze him to open his lungs up to maxiumum capacity. I run him on 3cc of Lasix and Ventipulmin starting two days before a race. I am considering trying the OxyO2 instead of the Ventipulmin. But he feels & is running better than he ever has... PRAISE THE LORD! |
|
| |
|
I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| We live west of I35 and the vet who "found" this is in Premont and that is in South Texas, west and south of I 35. So it is not just an east Texas thing unfortunately. The lady she bought the mare from seemed to think it was because her horses water from a pond and around the pond it is really grassy. She, too, was told it was a fungus in the wet grass. She has all her horses on the vaccine as soon as they get to her place, so my friend was really surprised at the diagnosis. I was hoping my friend would try the Cur Ost, but she didn't. I use Cur Ost, but for other reasons. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1481
Location: TEXAS | The lady who lost her horse "Shelley Chrismon" to this disease started an informational Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/equinecicatrix/ |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 885
| turn3turnsok - 2016-09-09 8:38 AM
The lady who lost her horse "Shelley Chrismon" to this disease started an informational Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/equinecicatrix/
Yes I know. I know Shelly well & her daughter, Kasey. Just wanted to post the info on here. Have a great day.
Edited by okhorselover 2016-09-09 8:36 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1481
Location: TEXAS | We're all allowed a participation trophy here ..... Bless your heart
 (image.gif)
Attachments
----------------
 image.gif (0KB - 169 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Gonzales texas | Hello everyone! Thank you for sharing my fb Cicatrix page here ! I was going to do it but got busy this weekend. So this is really awesome that the conversation has already started here!! Please go to the fb page Equine nasopharyngeal/tracheal Cicatrix and like and share it. I would also appreciate posting your experiences with this horrible disease, the diagnoses, your vet, your treatments and locations of cases on that page so we can get it all documented in one place. My hope is that I can raise awareness and get something going to try to figure this thing out. Gonzales county is one of the worst and has been around for years but still not that many are aware of the danger. There are some promising treatments that are very exciting but there is still no known cause. Only theories and opinions. I am so sad right now but so encouraged as the page has had over a thousand views in four days! Please go and read celebs story and spread the word. Every day I hear of new cases and horses having to have tracheostomies. Again thank you okhorselover for getting this going here and thank you all. Some of you have already been on my personal page with kind words and it is greatly appreciated ! I loved that horse and I want to find the cause and a cure so others won't go through this! |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Gonzales texas | GLP - 2016-09-07 7:38 PM
I have nothing new, but wanted warn people that the vaccine does not always work. I have a friend whose mare was on the vaccine but this summer she had to retire her from the barrel pen due to massive scarring.
That is true. You are exactly right.Celeb was vaccinated but it was after he had finally been diagnosed and it was already full-blown. In fact he was over the really acute stage of the raw blisters. He then developed massive scarring . I'm hoping it helps my 2 others since they did not have it when I started vaccinating them. There is no proof that the vaccine works. It is the pythium vaccine and might have some cross over IF it is a related organism. But nobody knows. |
|
| |
|
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| There are horses being diagnosed in other non coastal states. Mine were diagnosed 3 years ago after we bought our new place. They had no symptoms prior to moving and were diagnosed 6 months after the move. The vaccine has worked for mine, they are able to graze 24/7. I give the vaccine every year and scope twice a year, more often if I hear a cough, which so far has not been cicatrix. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Gonzales texas | GLP - 2016-09-08 10:56 AM
We live west of I35 and the vet who "found" this is in Premont and that is in South Texas, west and south of I 35. So it is not just an east Texas thing unfortunately. The lady she bought the mare from seemed to think it was because her horses water from a pond and around the pond it is really grassy. She, too, was told it was a fungus in the wet grass. She has all her horses on the vaccine as soon as they get to her place, so my friend was really surprised at the diagnosis. I was hoping my friend would try the Cur Ost, but she didn't. I use Cur Ost, but for other reasons.
Yes that is unfortunately true. it is in south and east Texas and some in the Florida panhandle. Which is strange that it skips over. In fact it may have started in south Texas and moved gradually north according to Dr Tracy Norman formerly of A&M. I know it has been here in Gonzales co for a very long time, they just didn't have a name or any communication about it. I hope it isn't on the move but if it is in other areas and states people will find the page and post it there. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Gonzales texas | rodeomom3 - 2016-09-10 8:29 PM
There are horses being diagnosed in other non coastal states. Mine were diagnosed 3 years ago after we bought our new place. They had no symptoms prior to moving and were diagnosed 6 months after the move. The vaccine has worked for mine, they are able to graze 24/7. I give the vaccine every year and scope twice a year, more often if I hear a cough, which so far has not been cicatrix.
Hi rodeomom! I remember visiting with you here about this. Celeb was diagnosed about the same time as yours. Unfortunately the vaccine didn't work on him. We also dry lotted him and later I let him have very limited grazing. After the trach I did turn him out 24/7 But his case was very bad. And his trach didn't work very well. It finally collapsed so we had to euthanize. I hope the vaccines are working on my other 2. I do limit their grazing to an hr a day and I worry about that. I'm so happy that yours are doing well. I would appreciate it if you post your experiences on the fb page! And if you know the people in the other states please share and invite them.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Gonzales texas | turn3turnsok - 2016-09-09 8:38 AM
The lady who lost her horse "Shelley Chrismon" to this disease started an informational Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/equinecicatrix/
Thank you for posting the link!!! I can't even get my iPad to copy and paste my own link  |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Gonzales texas | TBone - 2016-09-08 9:32 AM
My horse was diagnosed with this in July, 2015. I have owned him his entire life and he is 14 this year. He has a life long history of coughing & allergies. Yes, I live east of I35 and my horses are out on coastal bermuda pasture. He got so bad one year that I couldn't even ride him at a walk without him having a coughing attack. He also started bleeding after a run. Vet just recommended scoping every 6 months to keep an eye on him. I started him on Curost Total Equine & Immune & Repair with phenomenol results. I am now only giving him the Total. I do keep him in EXCELLENT condition and I breeze him to open his lungs up to maxiumum capacity. I run him on 3cc of Lasix and Ventipulmin starting two days before a race. I am considering trying the OxyO2 instead of the Ventipulmin. But he feels & is running better than he ever has... PRAISE THE LORD!
This is awesome news! Please keep in touch about this and post it to my fb Cicatrix page!!!
Edited by shelltc 2016-09-10 8:53 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1481
Location: TEXAS | shelltc - 2016-09-10 8:47 PM
turn3turnsok - 2016-09-09 8:38 AM
The lady who lost her horse "Shelley Chrismon" to this disease started an informational Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/equinecicatrix/
Thank you for posting the link!!! I can't even get my iPad to copy and paste my own link
You are VERY WELCOME!
I know it's been around for sometime - I believe the earliest studies were done back in the 80's - it's good information for those in Texas and surrounding states that are unaware.
GLAD I COULD HELP YOU   |
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| shelltc - 2016-09-10 8:45 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-09-10 8:29 PM There are horses being diagnosed in other non coastal states. Mine were diagnosed 3 years ago after we bought our new place. They had no symptoms prior to moving and were diagnosed 6 months after the move. The vaccine has worked for mine, they are able to graze 24/7. I give the vaccine every year and scope twice a year, more often if I hear a cough, which so far has not been cicatrix. Hi rodeomom! I remember visiting with you here about this. Celeb was diagnosed about the same time as yours. Unfortunately the vaccine didn't work on him. We also dry lotted him and later I let him have very limited grazing. After the trach I did turn him out 24/7 But his case was very bad. And his trach didn't work very well. It finally collapsed so we had to euthanize. I hope the vaccines are working on my other 2. I do limit their grazing to an hr a day and I worry about that. I'm so happy that yours are doing well. I would appreciate it if you post your experiences on the fb page! And if you know the people in the other states please share and invite them.
I am so sorry about Celeb. The vaccine does not work on all horses and I am very fortunate it did on mine. We lived at the same place for 11 years prior to moving and my horses had zero symptoms. One is a bleeder and scoped many times prior to the move and no cicatrix, another scoped for ulcers and he was clean. We moved in April, horses had slight cough when first asked to work but no exercise intolerance. I attributed it to allergies. One bled at ANHA, had him scooped on site and found the cicatrix :(. I followed up with my regular vet, 2 were a 4/5 on a scale of 10 and one was a 3. 30 days after the vaccine all were a 2, by 60 days they were completely healed and all were out 24/7. I do have friends that have given the vaccine multiple times and it has not worked for them. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Gonzales texas | okhorselover - 2016-09-09 8:35 PM
turn3turnsok - 2016-09-09 8:38 AM
The lady who lost her horse "Shelley Chrismon" to this disease started an informational Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/equinecicatrix/
Yes I know. I know Shelly well & her daughter, Kasey. Just wanted to post the info on here. Have a great day.
Thank you so much for getting this going on here. I greatly appreciate it! https://www.facebook.com/equinecicatrix/ Look I got it to copy with my phone. Okhorselover have you seen this disease in Oklahoma? I heard that it was but I haven't heard definitely! |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Bumping this. Found this very interesting. I have Familiy in E. TX. Will pass along the info.
So sorry to hear about Caleb. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 260
Location: Gonzales texas | IRunOnFaith - 2016-09-14 4:03 PM
Bumping this. Found this very interesting. I have Familiy in E. TX. Will pass along the info.
So sorry to hear about Caleb.
Thank you for passing it on. Please tell them about the Facebook page. I'm looking for info and I will post it there. Also links to research articles. If anyone tries anything or hears of anything please post it there! |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 885
| shelltc - 2016-09-10 10:03 PM
okhorselover - 2016-09-09 8:35 PM
turn3turnsok - 2016-09-09 8:38 AM
The lady who lost her horse "Shelley Chrismon" to this disease started an informational Facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/equinecicatrix/
Yes I know. I know Shelly well & her daughter, Kasey. Just wanted to post the info on here. Have a great day.
Thank you so much for getting this going on here. I greatly appreciate it! https://www.facebook.com/equinecicatrix/ Look I got it to copy with my phone. Okhorselover have you seen this disease in Oklahoma? I heard that it was but I haven't heard definitely!
Shelly, Haven't heard of this is Okla, but I will check with my vet. Give Kas-e a hug & smooch from me :) |
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I was at my vets today and picked up a booster to give my guys. My vet mentioned he had the "better" vaccine back in stock. He feels the one given under the skin vs the version given in the muscle is more effective. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1481
Location: TEXAS | I've been searching for info since I saw your story before it was posted here. I haven't found anything in recent years as in studies or medical research labs. I wonder why that is? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | TBone - 2016-09-08 9:32 AM My horse was diagnosed with this in July, 2015. I have owned him his entire life and he is 14 this year. He has a life long history of coughing & allergies. Yes, I live east of I35 and my horses are out on coastal bermuda pasture. He got so bad one year that I couldn't even ride him at a walk without him having a coughing attack. He also started bleeding after a run. Vet just recommended scoping every 6 months to keep an eye on him. I started him on Curost Total Equine & Immune & Repair with phenomenol results. I am now only giving him the Total. I do keep him in EXCELLENT condition and I breeze him to open his lungs up to maxiumum capacity. I run him on 3cc of Lasix and Ventipulmin starting two days before a race. I am considering trying the OxyO2 instead of the Ventipulmin. But he feels & is running better than he ever has... PRAISE THE LORD!
Just wanted to give an update. My horse bled thru Lasix the last time I ran him. Took him into the vet and he has scarring from the Cicatrix that is causing him to displace his soft palate which in turn is reducing his oxygen intake and causing his EIPH to be worse. The Cicatrix is dormant but he has a throat infection. 14 days of antibiotics and stuff to ease his throat. Then it is recommended to have tie-forward surgery to keep him from displacing. Success will depend on being able to pull the tie up over the scarring. I had discontinued the Curost Immune and thought he was doing ok. I am starting it again along with keeping him on the Total. I have since moved ALL three of my horses off my beautiful, lush coastal bermuda pasture. :( They are in a small pasture that has a little bit of grass but I'm sure they will have it eaten out in no time. Putting a round bale out with a hay chix net for them to "graze" on and they are stalled at night. This is totally foreign to me and to my horses! They have always been out on a big pasture. We are all doing our best to adjust. I just don't want to risk either of my other two getting this! |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 885
| I pm'd you with who to contact about this. I have never delt with it, Thank God, but Shelly has. I gave you her bhw name.
|
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| TBone - 2016-11-25 5:15 PM TBone - 2016-09-08 9:32 AM My horse was diagnosed with this in July, 2015. I have owned him his entire life and he is 14 this year. He has a life long history of coughing & allergies. Yes, I live east of I35 and my horses are out on coastal bermuda pasture. He got so bad one year that I couldn't even ride him at a walk without him having a coughing attack. He also started bleeding after a run. Vet just recommended scoping every 6 months to keep an eye on him. I started him on Curost Total Equine & Immune & Repair with phenomenol results. I am now only giving him the Total. I do keep him in EXCELLENT condition and I breeze him to open his lungs up to maxiumum capacity. I run him on 3cc of Lasix and Ventipulmin starting two days before a race. I am considering trying the OxyO2 instead of the Ventipulmin. But he feels & is running better than he ever has... PRAISE THE LORD! Just wanted to give an update. My horse bled thru Lasix the last time I ran him. Took him into the vet and he has scarring from the Cicatrix that is causing him to displace his soft palate which in turn is reducing his oxygen intake and causing his EIPH to be worse. The Cicatrix is dormant but he has a throat infection. 14 days of antibiotics and stuff to ease his throat. Then it is recommended to have tie-forward surgery to keep him from displacing. Success will depend on being able to pull the tie up over the scarring. I had discontinued the Curost Immune and thought he was doing ok. I am starting it again along with keeping him on the Total. I have since moved ALL three of my horses off my beautiful, lush coastal bermuda pasture. :( They are in a small pasture that has a little bit of grass but I'm sure they will have it eaten out in no time. Putting a round bale out with a hay chix net for them to "graze" on and they are stalled at night. This is totally foreign to me and to my horses! They have always been out on a big pasture. We are all doing our best to adjust. I just don't want to risk either of my other two getting this!
Have you tried the pythium vaccine? It halted the progress in mine and they graze 24/7. My vet also saudjeciuid remove the scar tissue with surgery. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | Everything I have read from other's trying it and my vet agreed that removing the scar tissue is not very successful. My vet also said the vaccine is not proven 100% effective either. I'm not willing to take ANY chances! |
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| TBone - 2016-11-26 6:53 AM Everything I have read from other's trying it and my vet agreed that removing the scar tissue is not very successful. My vet also said the vaccine is not proven 100% effective either. I'm not willing to take ANY chances!
Yes the vaccine is not effective in all horses. My vet said he has about a 70% success rate with the vaccine. I am fortunate it did work in mine. Mine were diagnosed a few months after moving to our new place. Prior to moving 2 of my 4 were scoped for different reasons and did not have it, none were symptomatic prior to moving. A year after giving the vaccine, they had another episode, I gave the 3 series shot again and at 60 days they were clean, I gave the 3 shot series the next year to be safe, this year I did a one shot booster. Mine remained grazing 24/7 except for weather. It is a scary condition, wish they could find the cause. I tried the vaccine because I did not want to leave any stone unturned in trying to help them but you do have to let them out to see if it is effective-uggg. My barn was being built and I did not have a way to confine them so the choice was easy. I did have my husband build huge stalls and huge pens off of each stall in case it did not work. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | That is great, so happy the vaccine worked for you. I will look into it further. It would be worth giving, even if I can let them out to graze only for a couple of hours per day when the grass is completely dry and not too lush. I am still in the paranoid phase.  Thanks for the feedback. |
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| TBone - 2016-11-26 8:09 AM That is great, so happy the vaccine worked for you. I will look into it further. It would be worth giving, even if I can let them out to graze only for a couple of hours per day when the grass is completely dry and not too lush. I am still in the paranoid phase. Thanks for the feedback.
Edited by rodeomom3 2016-11-26 8:27 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | Mine was actually diagnosed in July, 2015. I was never told about any vaccine or that it was progressive and I needed to keep him off the grass. The current vet I am working with is not that same vet. He did mention the vaccine, also said it was quite expensive and not 100% proven. But I guess if there is a chance it would work it would be worth giving. I am also going to ask about Flexineb or Equiresp nebulizer treatments. Has anyone used either of these for nebulizing medications deep in the lungs?
|
|
| |
|
Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| turn3turnsok - 2016-09-14 7:39 PM I've been searching for info since I saw your story before it was posted here. I haven't found anything in recent years as in studies or medical research labs. I wonder why that is?
Great question, especially since I feel it's more prevalent than people really think, no telling how many undiagnosed horses are out there. |
|
| |
|
 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | in the veterinary world, especially in Texas, cicatrix is so well known, its like a broken record. There still isn't any good explanation for what causes it. The reason why some believe pythium is involved is because pythium is found in the same geographic locations as cicatrix. But so are other diseases, so I'm not sure why they picked pythium to try and connect the dots.
People have had success with the pythium vaccine, but I am just gun shy on it. There's no hard science that says it works, its all been anecdotal.
surgically removing the scarring will not provide any long term success with it.
I also believe that many horses have subclinical cicatrix in their pharynx and many do not progress throughout their lives.. a small percentage get a very severe reaction and seem to scar more and over over the years and are the ones that end up with permanent trachs. We had it blow through our barn a few years ago when everyone seemed to be acutely affected. From those 9-10 horses, only one has scarring to any extent that will need a trach in the future. We treated with oral dex for a few weeks and then stopped. We have kept them on pasture as well. |
|
| |
|
  Expert
Posts: 1584
Location: Central Texas | I have 4 with it currently. Two are on the new vaccine series of ten. One of those is in the acute stage and is also getting anti-inflammatories and antibiotics. The other has scarring. Two we are not giving the vaccine because one is older and one is getting inflammatries and antibiotics. I think I have that all straight! They are ALL (seven) now dry-lotted from their beautiful pasture. So now, we are making note payments on the pasture and paying for all their feed and hay. Bad stuff! |
|
| |
|
I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Wow, no way to kill it off? What if you grazed cattle on it for a couple years, would that get rid of it? |
|
| |
|
You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | GLP - 2016-11-27 6:07 PM
Wow, no way to kill it off? What if you grazed cattle on it for a couple years, would that get rid of it?
We don't know what causes it, so hard to kill off what you don't know to look for. Can't pin it down to a bacteria, virus, fungi, toxin, anything. |
|
| |
|
I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| casualdust07 - 2016-11-27 6:34 PM
GLP - 2016-11-27 6:07 PM
Wow, no way to kill it off? What if you grazed cattle on it for a couple years, would that get rid of it?
We don't know what causes it, so hard to kill off what you don't know to look for. Can't pin it down to a bacteria, virus, fungi, toxin, anything.
Oh, wow, yep can't kill it when you don't know the cause! |
|
| |