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 A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
 
Location: Southern Oregon | I recently bought an older billy cook barrel saddle and i was curious as to if it is from the time frame where they were made well? I have never owned a billy cook. This one says it is a LYNN McKENZIE on the horn cap. The tag says Greenville,Texas 562 on the keeper. Also is there a way to look up all the specs with the serial number like circle y? It's serial number is 88 57 82 stamped under the jockey.
Unfortunately the old owner thought it was a 15 and its measuring 14.5 to the padding so im unsure if it will work for us. But any information would be great! |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
  
| All Billy cooks used to be made in Greenville. About 1978 Billy cook sold out to Potts Longhorn. There were still some of his saddles made there. I am not sure the exact date that he open his plant in OK. Barrelhorseusa would know. The numbers on the keeper are the model number. The serial number will tell you hte date made. i have an old Billy Cook that I bought new in 1974 and will look at the serial number. again, Bhusa can answer most of your questions. My sadde was made in Greenville. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | I am the same. My Saddle was made in Greenville. Just spent more than the saddle is worth to have a new tree put in, new fleece put on, and relaced the housing. I also redid the stirrup leathers.
I won't give up on that old dude! Mine was made around the same time. First saddle my Daddy ever bought me. He paid $500 for it at a pawn shop used and had to put it in layaway for purchase by Christmas that year. Love that old saddle.  You bought a good one! The new ones are terrible... |
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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Seems like I called about mine years ago and they gave me info.
Mine is an 80's model Youree made in Greenville. It's confusing bc people say the originals are from OK, but the real originals are TX. Too bad I'm not the same size as I was when I bought it because it's a nice little saddle! |
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| cowgirl_3207 - 2016-10-05 12:51 PM
I recently bought an older billy cook barrel saddle and i was curious as to if it is from the time frame where they were made well? I have never owned a billy cook. This one says it is a LYNN McKENZIE on the horn cap. The tag says Greenville,Texas 562 on the keeper. Also is there a way to look up all the specs with the serial number like circle y? It's serial number is 88 57 82 stamped under the jockey.
Unfortunately the old owner thought it was a 15 and its measuring 14.5 to the padding so im unsure if it will work for us. But any information would be great!
I ordered my cutting saddle in 1980 and was put on a list and it took a year to
get a call they were ready to do some body measuring to come on down.
99% of the Greenville saddles were fitted and specially made for a certain persons butt, crotch width, size of thighs, height and how the stirrups were hung ... you would go down as the saddle was being built to see how it
felt and if changes needed to be made ... about 4 fittings were standard.
This saddle has an Amy Gamblin tree .. it sits low and makes it easy for
a low handed rider to work your split reins. Also at cuttings the rules
back in the day .. were no touching or hanging onto the horn or points
would be deducted ... that made you ride rather than being a passenger.
It also has forward slung fenders which makes it easy for you to use the
roach killing sharp pointed cowboy boots to touch your horse on the elbow
to move left or right in front of a cow ... same boots had 1 3/4" under slung
heels with a spur ridge on them to keep them above the heel of the boot
and flip upwards when you drove your truck .. lol
Take note of the cantle .. if you ride with 30-40% of your weight in the
stirrups you don't need a tall cantle to keep your butt in the center
of the saddle ... so many people today rest all their weight in the
saddle seat and have floppy legs that give the wrong cues to their
horse ...
The original Billy Cooks only had his name on them and if the tree was
special ordered it was identified as such behind the cantle where the
jockeys are sewn together .. see picture .. same Billy Cook Stamp as the
keeper has .. with GENUINE AMY GAMBLIN which refers to the tree.
The cap had BILLY COOK .. SADDLERY... GREENVILLE ... TEXAS from top to bottom on it ..
The keeper has BILLY COOK GREENVILLE TEXAS in a circle with MAKER in the center with his file number below .... mine is 7504 and was one of the last 7 he could make due to non-compete law with LongHorn Saddles ...... same stamp is behind the cantle.
This saddle has been ridden a jillion miles ponying colts on the track
and whatever needed to be done. Good care will keep a well made saddle looking good even if it has been rained on and crossed creeks chasing a
cow .. lol ... sheep skin is beginning to come loose at the stitching ... it is
now a museum piece so no need of replacing it .. it sits on a wooden
saddle rack which I bought several of when Cutter Bill's western store
in Houston was closed down by the FBI ...
The stitching you see is cat gut and not buckskin stitching .. it has been
one tuff saddle and comfortable for hours on end .. not bad for a
hard used 35 year old saddle ....
I see posts all the time about my saddle does not fit my horse and never
anything about having the seat peaked in order to fit the rider in the
crotch, having the tree narrowed so your legs and feet hang straight down,
or having the swells shaved to let fat thighs have more huggable room or
I need a larger seat so my thighs will hang down instead of being airplane
wings or to ride with more weight in the stirrups because a tall cantle
would whack me in the back ... ... lol ..
I know you spend lots of money on saddle fitting horse .. next time .. find a good
saddle maker that will fit you to the saddle and you will find that saddle with
a minor change in thickness of blankets will fit any horse you will own in
your lifetime!! ..
Good horse trainers already know this and use the same saddle with a minor pad change on some or because it is dripping wet .. they may ride 5-10 horses a day
with that same saddle and look at your NFR ladies ... they are riding the
same old saddle they chase cows with at the home ranch .. lol ...
Here's a picture or two of this doggy old saddle ..
 (BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 8 18.jpg)
 (BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 (9) 90.jpg)
 (BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 (7) 18.jpg)
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 BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 8 18.jpg (87KB - 415 downloads)
BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 (9) 90.jpg (83KB - 263 downloads)
BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 (7) 18.jpg (80KB - 450 downloads)
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 899
Location: Idaho | I haven't sat or seen the older Billy Books from Greenville, Texas. But I have heard a lot of good things about them! I heard they are well made, are a good ride and are made to last the ages.
Now the newer Billy Cooks.. the ones made in Oklahoma, are a different story. Sure they are pretty, but I bought one ages ago. It was brand new off the rack, and it sored up my mare so bad that she no longer wanted to run a pattern. I refuse to even look at a Billy cook if its Oklahoma made. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-08 2:01 AM cowgirl_3207 - 2016-10-05 12:51 PM I recently bought an older billy cook barrel saddle and i was curious as to if it is from the time frame where they were made well? I have never owned a billy cook. This one says it is a LYNN McKENZIE on the horn cap. The tag says Greenville,Texas 562 on the keeper. Also is there a way to look up all the specs with the serial number like circle y? It's serial number is 88 57 82 stamped under the jockey. Unfortunately the old owner thought it was a 15 and its measuring 14.5 to the padding so im unsure if it will work for us. But any information would be great! I ordered my cutting saddle in 1980 and was put on a list and it took a year to get a call they were ready to do some body measuring to come on down. 99% of the Greenville saddles were fitted and specially made for a certain persons butt, crotch width, size of thighs, height and how the stirrups were hung ... you would go down as the saddle was being built to see how it felt and if changes needed to be made ... about 4 fittings were standard. This saddle has an Amy Gamblin tree .. it sits low and makes it easy for a low handed rider to work your split reins. Also at cuttings the rules back in the day .. were no touching or hanging onto the horn or points would be deducted ... that made you ride rather than being a passenger. It also has forward slung fenders which makes it easy for you to use the roach killing sharp pointed cowboy boots to touch your horse on the elbow to move left or right in front of a cow ... same boots had 1 3/4" under slung heels with a spur ridge on them to keep them above the heel of the boot and flip upwards when you drove your truck .. lol Take note of the cantle .. if you ride with 30-40% of your weight in the stirrups you don't need a tall cantle to keep your butt in the center of the saddle ... so many people today rest all their weight in the saddle seat and have floppy legs that give the wrong cues to their horse ... The original Billy Cooks only had his name on them and if the tree was special ordered it was identified as such behind the cantle where the jockeys are sewn together .. see picture .. same Billy Cook Stamp as the keeper has .. with GENUINE AMY GAMBLIN which refers to the tree. The cap had BILLY COOK .. SADDLERY... GREENVILLE ... TEXAS from top to bottom on it .. The keeper has BILLY COOK GREENVILLE TEXAS in a circle with MAKER in the center with his file number below .... mine is 7504 and was one of the last 7 he could make due to non-compete law with LongHorn Saddles ...... same stamp is behind the cantle. This saddle has been ridden a jillion miles ponying colts on the track and whatever needed to be done. Good care will keep a well made saddle looking good even if it has been rained on and crossed creeks chasing a cow .. lol ... sheep skin is beginning to come loose at the stitching ... it is now a museum piece so no need of replacing it .. it sits on a wooden saddle rack which I bought several of when Cutter Bill's western store in Houston was closed down by the FBI ... The stitching you see is cat gut and not buckskin stitching .. it has been one tuff saddle and comfortable for hours on end .. not bad for a hard used 35 year old saddle .... I see posts all the time about my saddle does not fit my horse and never anything about having the seat peaked in order to fit the rider in the crotch, having the tree narrowed so your legs and feet hang straight down, or having the swells shaved to let fat thighs have more huggable room or I need a larger seat so my thighs will hang down instead of being airplane wings or to ride with more weight in the stirrups because a tall cantle would whack me in the back ... ... lol .. I know you spend lots of money on saddle fitting horse .. next time .. find a good saddle maker that will fit you to the saddle and you will find that saddle with a minor change in thickness of blankets will fit any horse you will own in your lifetime!! .. Good horse trainers already know this and use the same saddle with a minor pad change on some or because it is dripping wet .. they may ride 5-10 horses a day with that same saddle and look at your NFR ladies ... they are riding the same old saddle they chase cows with at the home ranch .. lol ... Here's a picture or two of this doggy old saddle ..
So the rise in the seat behind the swells did'nt bother you, well the boys if you know what I mean, when you rode this saddle? I know that men have a hard time riding in a saddle with a raised seat like this one you have, hurt them pretty bad.. 
 (BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 (7) 18.jpg)
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BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 (7) 18.jpg (80KB - 404 downloads)
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| I looked at my saddle. There are no numbers under the Jockey and I had to have the tie strap keeper several years ago so there are no numbers at all. Remember my saddle was made in 1974. |
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| cowgirl_3207 - 2016-10-05 12:51 PM
I recently bought an older billy cook barrel saddle and i was curious as to if it is from the time frame where they were made well? I have never owned a billy cook. This one says it is a LYNN McKENZIE on the horn cap. The tag says Greenville,Texas 562 on the keeper. Also is there a way to look up all the specs with the serial number like circle y? It's serial number is 88 57 82 stamped under the jockey.
Unfortunately the old owner thought it was a 15 and its measuring 14.5 to the padding so im unsure if it will work for us. But any information would be great!
Dang it ... I forgot to answer your questions ..
562 is model number for this particular Lynn Mckenzie
88 is the year it was made
57 82 is the tree and tooling design numbers for production line saddles
This is a.... Simco-Longhorn Billy Cook Saddlery ..... made after BC went bankrupt
and had a 10 year no compete claus in the contract..
The numbering system was used on the Billy Cook Saddlery //Potts/Longhorn production line saddles and continued when Simo bought them (I think BC still uses the same under the jockey numbering system in Oklahoma) ... look hard at your tooling and see if you see any cuts in the tooling ... most of these saddles used a die and a big rolling press for the tooling.
Prior to 1982 BC special made saddles did not have this number under the jockey and were made with Herman Oak leathers ... with special ordered trees from outside his shop ..
Bill Potts and Billy Cook were partners from the 70's ... Billy built custom made saddles and those were marked with Maker on the stamp and Billy Cook Saddlery on the horn cap ... this partnership was what was sold to Simco but Billy remained sole owner to the rights of the stamp with Billy Cook MAKER on it.
Billy also owned the Billy Cook Harness Shop with a stamp and silver concho noting such and had a horn cap with his signature on it ... saddles made at the harness shop were hand made ...
I mentioned this to one of my now grown used to be high school FFA exercise riders and she reminded me that she made an audio tape of information on Billy Cook and events as a project and I provided the information ... if she sends it email as promised ... I will add it to this random memories post .... lol
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-09 9:07 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-08 2:01 AM cowgirl_3207 - 2016-10-05 12:51 PM I recently bought an older billy cook barrel saddle and i was curious as to if it is from the time frame where they were made well? I have never owned a billy cook. This one says it is a LYNN McKENZIE on the horn cap. The tag says Greenville,Texas 562 on the keeper. Also is there a way to look up all the specs with the serial number like circle y? It's serial number is 88 57 82 stamped under the jockey. Unfortunately the old owner thought it was a 15 and its measuring 14.5 to the padding so im unsure if it will work for us. But any information would be great! I ordered my cutting saddle in 1980 and was put on a list and it took a year to get a call they were ready to do some body measuring to come on down. 99% of the Greenville saddles were fitted and specially made for a certain persons butt, crotch width, size of thighs, height and how the stirrups were hung ... you would go down as the saddle was being built to see how it felt and if changes needed to be made ... about 4 fittings were standard. This saddle has an Amy Gamblin tree .. it sits low and makes it easy for a low handed rider to work your split reins. Also at cuttings the rules back in the day .. were no touching or hanging onto the horn or points would be deducted ... that made you ride rather than being a passenger. It also has forward slung fenders which makes it easy for you to use the roach killing sharp pointed cowboy boots to touch your horse on the elbow to move left or right in front of a cow ... same boots had 1 3/4" under slung heels with a spur ridge on them to keep them above the heel of the boot and flip upwards when you drove your truck .. lol Take note of the cantle .. if you ride with 30-40% of your weight in the stirrups you don't need a tall cantle to keep your butt in the center of the saddle ... so many people today rest all their weight in the saddle seat and have floppy legs that give the wrong cues to their horse ... The original Billy Cooks only had his name on them and if the tree was special ordered it was identified as such behind the cantle where the jockeys are sewn together .. see picture .. same Billy Cook Stamp as the keeper has .. with GENUINE AMY GAMBLIN which refers to the tree. The cap had BILLY COOK .. SADDLERY... GREENVILLE ... TEXAS from top to bottom on it .. The keeper has BILLY COOK GREENVILLE TEXAS in a circle with MAKER in the center with his file number below .... mine is 7504 and was one of the last 7 he could make due to non-compete law with LongHorn Saddles ...... same stamp is behind the cantle. This saddle has been ridden a jillion miles ponying colts on the track and whatever needed to be done. Good care will keep a well made saddle looking good even if it has been rained on and crossed creeks chasing a cow .. lol ... sheep skin is beginning to come loose at the stitching ... it is now a museum piece so no need of replacing it .. it sits on a wooden saddle rack which I bought several of when Cutter Bill's western store in Houston was closed down by the FBI ... The stitching you see is cat gut and not buckskin stitching .. it has been one tuff saddle and comfortable for hours on end .. not bad for a hard used 35 year old saddle .... I see posts all the time about my saddle does not fit my horse and never anything about having the seat peaked in order to fit the rider in the crotch, having the tree narrowed so your legs and feet hang straight down, or having the swells shaved to let fat thighs have more huggable room or I need a larger seat so my thighs will hang down instead of being airplane wings or to ride with more weight in the stirrups because a tall cantle would whack me in the back ... ... lol .. I know you spend lots of money on saddle fitting horse .. next time .. find a good saddle maker that will fit you to the saddle and you will find that saddle with a minor change in thickness of blankets will fit any horse you will own in your lifetime!! .. Good horse trainers already know this and use the same saddle with a minor pad change on some or because it is dripping wet .. they may ride 5-10 horses a day with that same saddle and look at your NFR ladies ... they are riding the same old saddle they chase cows with at the home ranch .. lol ... Here's a picture or two of this doggy old saddle ..
This is the saddle I was asking you about BHUSA..
 (BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 (7) 18.jpg)
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BILLY COOK AMY GAMBLIN TREE 1981 (7) 18.jpg (80KB - 280 downloads)
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| Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-09 9:07 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-08 2:01 AM cowgirl_3207 - 2016-10-05 12:51 PM I recently bought an older billy cook barrel saddle and i was curious as to if it is from the time frame where they were made well? I have never owned a billy cook. This one says it is a LYNN McKENZIE on the horn cap. The tag says Greenville,Texas 562 on the keeper. Also is there a way to look up all the specs with the serial number like circle y? It's serial number is 88 57 82 stamped under the jockey. Unfortunately the old owner thought it was a 15 and its measuring 14.5 to the padding so im unsure if it will work for us. But any information would be great! I ordered my cutting saddle in 1980 and was put on a list and it took a year to get a call they were ready to do some body measuring to come on down. 99% of the Greenville saddles were fitted and specially made for a certain persons butt, crotch width, size of thighs, height and how the stirrups were hung ... you would go down as the saddle was being built to see how it felt and if changes needed to be made ... about 4 fittings were standard. This saddle has an Amy Gamblin tree .. it sits low and makes it easy for a low handed rider to work your split reins. Also at cuttings the rules back in the day .. were no touching or hanging onto the horn or points would be deducted ... that made you ride rather than being a passenger. It also has forward slung fenders which makes it easy for you to use the roach killing sharp pointed cowboy boots to touch your horse on the elbow to move left or right in front of a cow ... same boots had 1 3/4" under slung heels with a spur ridge on them to keep them above the heel of the boot and flip upwards when you drove your truck .. lol Take note of the cantle .. if you ride with 30-40% of your weight in the stirrups you don't need a tall cantle to keep your butt in the center of the saddle ... so many people today rest all their weight in the saddle seat and have floppy legs that give the wrong cues to their horse ... The original Billy Cooks only had his name on them and if the tree was special ordered it was identified as such behind the cantle where the jockeys are sewn together .. see picture .. same Billy Cook Stamp as the keeper has .. with GENUINE AMY GAMBLIN which refers to the tree. The cap had BILLY COOK .. SADDLERY... GREENVILLE ... TEXAS from top to bottom on it .. The keeper has BILLY COOK GREENVILLE TEXAS in a circle with MAKER in the center with his file number below .... mine is 7504 and was one of the last 7 he could make due to non-compete law with LongHorn Saddles ...... same stamp is behind the cantle. This saddle has been ridden a jillion miles ponying colts on the track and whatever needed to be done. Good care will keep a well made saddle looking good even if it has been rained on and crossed creeks chasing a cow .. lol ... sheep skin is beginning to come loose at the stitching ... it is now a museum piece so no need of replacing it .. it sits on a wooden saddle rack which I bought several of when Cutter Bill's western store in Houston was closed down by the FBI ... The stitching you see is cat gut and not buckskin stitching .. it has been one tuff saddle and comfortable for hours on end .. not bad for a hard used 35 year old saddle .... I see posts all the time about my saddle does not fit my horse and never anything about having the seat peaked in order to fit the rider in the crotch, having the tree narrowed so your legs and feet hang straight down, or having the swells shaved to let fat thighs have more huggable room or I need a larger seat so my thighs will hang down instead of being airplane wings or to ride with more weight in the stirrups because a tall cantle would whack me in the back ... ... lol .. I know you spend lots of money on saddle fitting horse .. next time .. find a good saddle maker that will fit you to the saddle and you will find that saddle with a minor change in thickness of blankets will fit any horse you will own in your lifetime!! .. Good horse trainers already know this and use the same saddle with a minor pad change on some or because it is dripping wet .. they may ride 5-10 horses a day with that same saddle and look at your NFR ladies ... they are riding the same old saddle they chase cows with at the home ranch .. lol ... Here's a picture or two of this doggy old saddle ..
I guess if you are a fat guy with a shed built over your tools and sit on your rump with your knees bent as if sitting in a desk chair with no weight in your legs//stirrups you would end up like a bowling ball rolling forward and backwards in the saddle seat ... lol
If you know what a bucking roll is then you can associate this "thigh bumper"
with staying centered in your saddle with 1/3++ of your weight in the stirrups.
You help your horse out by keeping your balance and weight forward into their withers. (called the sweet spot ... your best race horse jockeys are expert at doing this) .. To ride this "thigh bumper" you had to ride light and if you needed to stand up in the saddle... your butt would clear the seat of the saddle by no more than an inch or one finger thickness.... same with thigh distance from the "bumpers" one finger width ... this why good saddle makers have fitting sessions with saddle buyer ...
When a cutting horse sat down to sweep or stop .. you would stand up enough so he wouldn't sit on his rear but maintain his front end agility.
This is where the sharp toed "roach killer" boots came in ... you could move a toe over in front of your cinch and apply pressure to horses right elbow to move his front end to sweep to the left .. these boots also had undershot heels with spur ridges so you could apply spur pressure behind the cinch to move his body parallel with the cow he was working to move across the arena or use both to close the gap on the cow and not lose a stirrup due to the undershot heels. The other main cue was shifting your weight in your stirrups to move horse left or right or shifting weight to be deep in the saddle as a cue we are about to ask for a big stop .. ........ then moving weighted feet forward for an abrupt stop... on a cutter when you ask for a stop ... you want a dead stop where there is no sliding around ...
This is why we all wore long batwing chaps or lots of fringe to hide our foot movements while cueing the horse ... lol
This is the reason most of your cold blooded roping horse blood lines from AZ, WA, OR, MT, SD, ND, MI, MN, NEB never made it as cutters ... they were also cold sided.
As I stated this saddle was built when the rules in cutting were ... no touching the horn of the saddle... you rode with your butt connected to your brain with free hands and no touching the horse's withers to finger cue him to move right, left, stop or ssssstudddder step ... you lost points for doing any of the above .. lol
TODAY doing all of this crap is expected ...
FYI: For you young folks ..........Did you know that Justin ropers were nothing but flat heeled walking band marching boots in varied colors and marketed to the honky tonk crowd or wannabe cowboys and cowgirls.... and to people that want a boot caught in a stirrup while being dragged around the arena .... lol ..... so show your respect when you see someone wearing some legitimate working cowboy boots with sharp toes, spur ridges and 1 3/4" undershot heels ... ....
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