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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: Wherever They Send Me | Thoughts??? 
Edited by amandacamarano 2016-10-19 8:37 PM
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
  
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | My thoughts for both
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2016-10-19 8:43 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 582
Location: Wherever They Send Me | Is it just me or are her teeth really shiny??
Trump seems to be controlling his out bursts...so far. And my favorite moment was the immigration question that ended with Hillary talking about wiki-leaks and Putin...  |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | amandacamarano - 2016-10-19 7:47 PM Is it just me or are her teeth really shiny?? Trump seems to be controlling his out bursts...so far. And my favorite moment was the immigration question that ended with Hillary talking about wiki-leaks and Putin...
Yes, teeth are slimy...I mean shiny
He is doing well. Don't love him, but I do STRONGLY dislike her |
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 Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | Didn't watch it, but this came across my fb and tought it was funny...
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| I DO NOT BELIEVE A WORD THAT WOMEN SAYS. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | jbhoot - 2016-10-19 9:39 PM I DO NOT BELIEVE A WORD THAT WOMEN SAYS.
I can't believe anyone can believe anything she says. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| In my opinion, he tore her a new one. It was all she could do to keep her cool. He only made one mistake when he called her a ______ woman.. Cant remember what the word was.. It was true, but not exactly cooth..lol SHe just told everyone what they wanted to hear to get votes. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Did'nt watch are not watching if its still on, I just cant stomach her any more, I'm wishing to many bad things her way so thought I better not watch her lying face..  |
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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!!
Edited by slacy09 2016-10-19 10:16 PM
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Location: South Dakota | Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-19 10:00 PM Did'nt watch are not watching if its still on, I just cant stomach her any more, I'm wishing to many bad things her way so thought I better not watch her lying face..
I feel your pain. I felt like throwing a brick at her smug lying face. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!!
agree !! |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas |
To those that agree with Hillary on partial birth abortions... here ya go...
WARNING --- GRAPHIC CONTENT --- IF YOU WANT TO SLEEP TONIGHT DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/warning-graphic-partial-birth-abortion-...
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas |
This is ugly, but it's real. People need to know what we're talking about. |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | FLITASTIC - 2016-10-19 9:51 PM In my opinion, he tore her a new one. It was all she could do to keep her cool. He only made one mistake when he called her a ______ woman.. Cant remember what the word was.. It was true, but not exactly cooth..lol SHe just told everyone what they wanted to hear to get votes. The word was "nasty" and she is.
I'd like to know how you "vet" Syrian refugees when there's no database. Here's how they do it.
Are you a terrorist? Ummmmm, let me think....No?
Welcome to the United States. Here's your list of available benefits and free medical... compliments of the American taxpayers who can barely feed their families and are stuck with the growing cost of Obamacare.
Edited by Frodo 2016-10-20 6:50 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 403
Location: Armuchee, GA, NW section of Ga | I didnt watch the debate. I knew that I would get too mad. I am so scared that no matter what anyone does, how many vote, HC will win....not because of the number of votes, but because of fraud. This country will not survive with her, the beginning of the end of what we know now. |
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 Saint Stacey
| janjan1 - 2016-10-20 6:00 AM
I didnt watch the debate. I knew that I would get too mad. I am so scared that no matter what anyone does, how many vote, HC will win....not because of the number of votes, but because of fraud. This country will not survive with her, the beginning of the end of what we know now.
As much as I don't like admitting this, I have to agree. The corruption and fraud is so great that I think that evil spawn of satan woman will win even if Trump gets 95% of the votes. The government machine will see to it.
It saddens me how many people are okay with all of Hilary's lies and how decitiful she is. She could drop a bomb in the middle of a Mardi Gras parade, there be video proof showing she did it and people would still believe the media if they reported she didn't do it. |
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Witty Enough
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Location: CTX | |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | As near as I can tell, the Government is making it okay for illegals to register to vote. Liberal media is making a big deal out of Trump's refusal to concede that he would accept defeat without contesting the outcome if/when it comes to that. He has a reason....illegal voters, rigged machines.
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
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Location: Kansas | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would carry her pregnancy this far, when the infant is totally viable, only to have it executed in such a barbaric manner. Did people notice how big that baby was? Did you notice his legs kicking, as the doctor drove those scissors into his skull to scramble his brain? Why not just finish the pregnancy and give the baby a chance to live? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | Bear - 2016-10-20 8:32 AM
What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would carry her pregnancy this far, when the infant is totally viable, only to have it executed in such a barbaric manner. Did people notice how big that baby was? Did you notice his legs kicking, as the doctor drove those scissors into his skull to scramble his brain? Why not just finish the pregnancy and give the baby a chance to live?
I don't know how anyone can be for partial birth abortions. One of my kids was born at 36 weeks and she didn't even need supplemental Oxygen and went home with me a day later. If I remember correctly at 24 weeks a baby has a chance of surviving with advanced life support in the NICU. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:36 AM Bear - 2016-10-20 8:32 AM What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would carry her pregnancy this far, when the infant is totally viable, only to have it executed in such a barbaric manner. Did people notice how big that baby was? Did you notice his legs kicking, as the doctor drove those scissors into his skull to scramble his brain? Why not just finish the pregnancy and give the baby a chance to live? I don't know how anyone can be for partial birth abortions. One of my kids was born at 36 weeks and she didn't even need supplemental Oxygen and went home with me a day later. If I remember correctly at 24 weeks a baby has a chance of surviving with advanced life support in the NICU.
My daughter was a NICU nurse before she became a NP - their "start" to life was 23 weeks. They had quite a few babies go on and live a normal life.
I can't watch or even look at the pics on FB - makes me so sick to my stomach. |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played. |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played.
Other that the stupidity of your first statement, there's actually some truth to the rest of what you state. Guess there's a first time for everything. |
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 Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life.
the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Part of the plan----who is going to vote for someone who is going to take stuff away from them. One step closer to Socialism. |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Bear - 2016-10-20 9:32 AM What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would carry her pregnancy this far, when the infant is totally viable, only to have it executed in such a barbaric manner. Did people notice how big that baby was? Did you notice his legs kicking, as the doctor drove those scissors into his skull to scramble his brain? Why not just finish the pregnancy and give the baby a chance to live?
Why not give up for adoption---I do not understand this thinking. |
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Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | http://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/indiana-state-police-releases-full-statement-on-possible-voter-fraud |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
For a joke - have you not looked at your pay check lately? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | I just looked at mine. Between the various tax and health insurance half of my paycheck is gone. |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:52 AM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played. Other that the stupidity of your first statement, there's actually some truth to the rest of what you state. Guess there's a first time for everything.
Now I'm stupid for having a different opinion that what you have?
Then you are on the rest?
Let that sink in for a minute. |
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Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 11:18 AM
luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
I guess my question or statement should have read..... that is unstatainable.... yes I do payroll at my place of employment. I see everyones paycheck. and with the 25% health insurance increase we are taking..... there will be no raises in 2017.  |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | jd&ez - 2016-10-20 11:30 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:52 AM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played. Other that the stupidity of your first statement, there's actually some truth to the rest of what you state. Guess there's a first time for everything.
Then you are on the rest?
Let that sink in for a minute.
While I realize you don't like Trump - that's okay - this is America. And I also realize in the past he was for "EARLY TERM" abortion and has since changed his view.
How do you justify LATE TERM ABORTION up to delivery date?
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | luluwhit - 2016-10-20 10:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
You must have paid for 10 quarters to get Medicare or have been married to someone that did for 10 years.
SS is based on how much you paid in. But there is a minimum that person can get even if they didn't pay in much.
They really shouldn't be called entitlements. But saying the word entitlement has become a nice media buzzword.
What needs to be reformed in this country is SSI, (welfare), and Medicaid. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| grinandbareit - 2016-10-19 10:55 PM To those that agree with Hillary on partial birth abortions... here ya go... WARNING --- GRAPHIC CONTENT --- IF YOU WANT TO SLEEP TONIGHT DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK http://www.mrctv.org/videos/warning-graphic-partial-birth-abortion-...
Started to watch it but had to stop, too heart breaking. I can't believe anyone thinks this is ok and don't give me the argument that preventing late term abortion opens the door to more abortion restrictions. There is no excuse for this, it is barbaric. |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:33 AM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 11:30 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:52 AM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played. Other that the stupidity of your first statement, there's actually some truth to the rest of what you state. Guess there's a first time for everything.
Then you are on the rest?
Let that sink in for a minute.
How do you justify LATE TERM ABORTION up to delivery date?
I never even attempted to justify that.
I was just pointing out that, if you are against abortion as an issue, neither of these candidates are with you. Both Trump and Clinton have been pro abortion for their entire adult life. Trump has only decided to say he is anti abortion since he got the GOP nomination.
Now, it may be possible that one could believe that he actually changed and is not just saying it for political reasons? I am not one of those people. |
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | Bibliafarm - 2016-10-19 11:31 PM slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!! agree !!
She does not support partial birth abortion and furthermore, it is illegal to kill a viable infant even if it has horrible problems. No one ever has said they support killing babies at 9 or 8 or 7 etc months. Personally I do not agree with abortion except in situations involving the mother's life, rape, incest and a non-viable fetus. But I also believe in the constitution and it is not my right to tell someone else what to do. It is called Live and Let Live.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | Vickie - 2016-10-20 10:43 AM
Bibliafarm - 2016-10-19 11:31 PM slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!! agree !!
It's legal to do elective abortions in NM up to 28 weeks |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:33 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 11:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
I guess my question or statement should have read..... that is unstatainable.... yes I do payroll at my place of employment. I see everyones paycheck. and with the 25% health insurance increase we are taking..... there will be no raises in 2017.
It is a screw me - I do the payroll here at work too. Amazing that JD says we only pay in for 10 quarters and get Medicare. So, tell me - why dont' "the dems" want tax reform for everyone? Why are we still paying after 10 quarters? To pay for the people who refuse to work - that is why.
Oh and BTW - you can get the SS of the person who you used to be married to - if it was at least 10 years of marraige too. So, all of you who's spouse made more then you - don't get your SS - get the x's if they made more.
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 Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Bear - 2016-10-20 8:32 AM What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would carry her pregnancy this far, when the infant is totally viable, only to have it executed in such a barbaric manner. Did people notice how big that baby was? Did you notice his legs kicking, as the doctor drove those scissors into his skull to scramble his brain? Why not just finish the pregnancy and give the baby a chance to live?
I said the same thing on FB last night, about taking a baby early for the health of the mother or baby either one isn't the same thing as abortion, which is killing. Someone I know then privately told me their story. Her unborn baby had a severe case of hydrocephalus and was dying slowly inside her, but if his head got too large before he passed, she wouldn't be able to deliver him vaginally. She had to go to another state to get his birth induced at 27 weeks because the state of AR considered this late term abortion. How does that make sense? In the end, he was dead anyway by the time she got to the clinic in KS for the procedure (which she said did not dismember the baby in any way, just induced labor and was told if her baby had been born alive, he would have been put in the NICU). It turned out to be a genetic abnormality and there was no way he could have lived. She went on to have 3 healthy babies. None of that makes sense to me, isn't abortion about intent? Why are the laws not written that way?
So I haven't changed my position on what's right or wrong, but apparently legal definitions differ from common sense. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Vickie - 2016-10-20 10:43 AM
Bibliafarm - 2016-10-19 11:31 PM slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!! agree !!
When you are killing babies, it's not live and let live. If you want live and let live applied to unwanted pregnancies, have the baby and put it up for adoption. I didn't want babies when I was young so I used birth control- it's readily available, use it kids! We had a friend who was raped in college. She kept the baby and loved that baby. She had no other kids. I do realize that she is an exceptional human being, though. I don't have heroes but she is some one I really admire. |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:48 AM Bear - 2016-10-20 8:32 AM What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would carry her pregnancy this far, when the infant is totally viable, only to have it executed in such a barbaric manner. Did people notice how big that baby was? Did you notice his legs kicking, as the doctor drove those scissors into his skull to scramble his brain? Why not just finish the pregnancy and give the baby a chance to live? I said the same thing on FB last night, about taking a baby early for the health of the mother or baby either one isn't the same thing as abortion, which is killing. Someone I know then privately told me their story. Her unborn baby had a severe case of hydrocephalus and was dying slowly inside her, but if his head got too large before he passed, she wouldn't be able to deliver him vaginally. She had to go to another state to get his birth induced at 27 weeks because the state of AR considered this late term abortion. How does that make sense? In the end, he was dead anyway by the time she got to the clinic in KS for the procedure (which she said did not dismember the baby in any way, just induced labor and was told if her baby had been born alive, he would have been put in the NICU). It turned out to be a genetic abnormality and there was no way he could have lived. She went on to have 3 healthy babies. None of that makes sense to me, isn't abortion about intent? Why are the laws not written that way?
So I haven't changed my position on what's right or wrong, but apparently legal definitions differ from common sense.
I had a family member who also had to do the same thing - heart breaking. But, as you mentioned - intent is what Hillary supports. Not something as what you described. Two totally different things.
Modern medicine is sometimes a curse. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM
Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played.
You crack me up, Mr Yellowdog.
If anyone with half a brain has been following this process they know why Trump has switched his position to pro life. He's explained it many times, and it's completely plausible. You can question the sincerity of his switch, but are you equally willing to acknowledge Hillary's flip flops?
She was opposed to Gay marriage....until she ran for POTUS.
She was a vocal supporter of NAFTA.....until she ran for POTUS.
She was a vocal advocate of the Iraq invasion......until she ran for POTUS.
She was for TPP, calling it "the gold standard"......until she ran for POTUS.
She was strongly against illegal immigration.....until she ran for POTUS.
There's a good reason why Trump cut through 16 of the best the GOP had to offer like a hot knife through butter. He didn't mince words. He spoke his mind. He called it as he saw it. He said a lot of things many people actually thought, including other candidates, but were afraid to say. He called out the political establishment on both sides for their corruption. He was unapologetic about his main thrust to put America first. Even if he loses, he was a hand grenade we needed. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:54 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:48 AM Bear - 2016-10-20 8:32 AM What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would carry her pregnancy this far, when the infant is totally viable, only to have it executed in such a barbaric manner. Did people notice how big that baby was? Did you notice his legs kicking, as the doctor drove those scissors into his skull to scramble his brain? Why not just finish the pregnancy and give the baby a chance to live? I said the same thing on FB last night, about taking a baby early for the health of the mother or baby either one isn't the same thing as abortion, which is killing. Someone I know then privately told me their story. Her unborn baby had a severe case of hydrocephalus and was dying slowly inside her, but if his head got too large before he passed, she wouldn't be able to deliver him vaginally. She had to go to another state to get his birth induced at 27 weeks because the state of AR considered this late term abortion. How does that make sense? In the end, he was dead anyway by the time she got to the clinic in KS for the procedure (which she said did not dismember the baby in any way, just induced labor and was told if her baby had been born alive, he would have been put in the NICU). It turned out to be a genetic abnormality and there was no way he could have lived. She went on to have 3 healthy babies. None of that makes sense to me, isn't abortion about intent? Why are the laws not written that way?
So I haven't changed my position on what's right or wrong, but apparently legal definitions differ from common sense.
Modern medicine is sometimes a curse.
This, heart breaking situation for your friend. I agree medical issues are different. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 10:48 AM
Bear - 2016-10-20 8:32 AM What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would carry her pregnancy this far, when the infant is totally viable, only to have it executed in such a barbaric manner. Did people notice how big that baby was? Did you notice his legs kicking, as the doctor drove those scissors into his skull to scramble his brain? Why not just finish the pregnancy and give the baby a chance to live?
I said the same thing on FB last night, about taking a baby early for the health of the mother or baby either one isn't the same thing as abortion, which is killing. Someone I know then privately told me their story. Her unborn baby had a severe case of hydrocephalus and was dying slowly inside her, but if his head got too large before he passed, she wouldn't be able to deliver him vaginally. She had to go to another state to get his birth induced at 27 weeks because the state of AR considered this late term abortion. How does that make sense? In the end, he was dead anyway by the time she got to the clinic in KS for the procedure (which she said did not dismember the baby in any way, just induced labor and was told if her baby had been born alive, he would have been put in the NICU). It turned out to be a genetic abnormality and there was no way he could have lived. She went on to have 3 healthy babies. None of that makes sense to me, isn't abortion about intent? Why are the laws not written that way?
So I haven't changed my position on what's right or wrong, but apparently legal definitions differ from common sense.
What do you think is the commonest reason for late term abortion? |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| jd&ez - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM
TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:52 AM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played. Other that the stupidity of your first statement, there's actually some truth to the rest of what you state. Guess there's a first time for everything.
Then you are on the rest?
Let that sink in for a minute.
He said that it was a stupid statement, not that YOU are stupid. Big difference.
Everybody SAYS something stupid at some point, but being a typical liberal you abandon ALL logic and make a generalized statement out of a very specific one just to draw your own conclusion.
As for Trump actually being a Democrat, at least that is an improvement over the leading "Democrats" who are actually Socialists, and in general most leading Republicans are Dems in sheep's clothing. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| janjan1 - 2016-10-20 7:00 AM
I didnt watch the debate. I knew that I would get too mad. I am so scared that no matter what anyone does, how many vote, HC will win....not because of the number of votes, but because of fraud. This country will not survive with her, the beginning of the end of what we know now.
I agree with you 100% - she is going to win. I hate to be a conspiracy theorist (but I AM) - I think Trump is right, it IS rigged and I don't believe anybody that says otherwise.... |
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Vickie - 2016-10-20 10:43 AM
Bibliafarm - 2016-10-19 11:31 PM slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!! agree !!
Where is the "Live and let Live" clause in the Constitution ? |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Vickie - 2016-10-20 10:43 AM Bibliafarm - 2016-10-19 11:31 PM slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!! agree !!
It baffles me that anyone could consider the Constitution important and vote for Hillary. I guess she hasn't attacked the freedoms you hold dear yet......... yet. |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | TXBO - 2016-10-20 12:13 PM Vickie - 2016-10-20 10:43 AM Bibliafarm - 2016-10-19 11:31 PM slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!! agree !!
If you notice---two debates in a row the subject of the Justices came up and when discussing how she would choose one, the obeying the Constitution was never mentioned and she actually dodged it completely last night when asked. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Mighty Broke - 2016-10-20 11:23 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 12:13 PM Vickie - 2016-10-20 10:43 AM Bibliafarm - 2016-10-19 11:31 PM slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!! agree !!
She also gave some ridiculous answers with no truth to them at all.
http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/19/no-hillary-clinton-supreme-courts-heller-decision-wasnt-toddlers/ |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Bear - 2016-10-20 11:04 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 10:48 AM Bear - 2016-10-20 8:32 AM What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would carry her pregnancy this far, when the infant is totally viable, only to have it executed in such a barbaric manner. Did people notice how big that baby was? Did you notice his legs kicking, as the doctor drove those scissors into his skull to scramble his brain? Why not just finish the pregnancy and give the baby a chance to live? I said the same thing on FB last night, about taking a baby early for the health of the mother or baby either one isn't the same thing as abortion, which is killing. Someone I know then privately told me their story. Her unborn baby had a severe case of hydrocephalus and was dying slowly inside her, but if his head got too large before he passed, she wouldn't be able to deliver him vaginally. She had to go to another state to get his birth induced at 27 weeks because the state of AR considered this late term abortion. How does that make sense? In the end, he was dead anyway by the time she got to the clinic in KS for the procedure (which she said did not dismember the baby in any way, just induced labor and was told if her baby had been born alive, he would have been put in the NICU). It turned out to be a genetic abnormality and there was no way he could have lived. She went on to have 3 healthy babies. None of that makes sense to me, isn't abortion about intent? Why are the laws not written that way?
So I haven't changed my position on what's right or wrong, but apparently legal definitions differ from common sense. What do you think is the commonest reason for late term abortion?
Are we defining abortion as inducing birth early or murdering a baby? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: SE KS | 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM
luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM
3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM
luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!!
How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 625
Location: Harrisonville, Missouri | Late term abortions are done in 1% of the cases. They are done after 20 weeks because that is when genetic anomalies are identified. There are 3 clinics in the U.S. that perform them. They are risky and expensive. The doctors that perform them do so at great risk. Remember Dr. Tiller from Wichita. He was killed because he performed them. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes?
More money to invest in equipment and infrastructure upgrades, expansion of the business, more employees and/or paying the ones you have better...just think how great that would be for the economy. In turn raising individual earnings and increasing tax revenue. Makes perfect sense to me. |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | TXBO - 2016-10-20 12:52 PM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes?
Do people on the Left not understand the difference between Corporate and Individual taxes ??????????? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 625
Location: Harrisonville, Missouri | On the issue of health care premium costs, you can complain about Obamacare or the ACA all you want to, but it has helped a lot of folks get insurance and health care. If you want to point fingers at someone about the cost of it, point to your health insurance provider and probably to a greater degree, the pharmaceutical companies. When was the last time one of them posted a loss? When a pill cost $5, 5 years ago, but now costs $15, that is the pharmaceutical company. From cancer drugs to epi pens, big pharma is primarily to blame. |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | engravedinvitation - 2016-10-20 1:04 PM On the issue of health care premium costs, you can complain about Obamacare or the ACA all you want to, but it has helped a lot of folks get insurance and health care. If you want to point fingers at someone about the cost of it, point to your health insurance provider and probably to a greater degree, the pharmaceutical companies. When was the last time one of them posted a loss? When a pill cost $5, 5 years ago, but now costs $15, that is the pharmaceutical company. From cancer drugs to epi pens, big pharma is primarily to blame.
If you dig even a little deeper---the core problem is the lobbyist and the money spent to get our Congress to do what THEY want. |
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:26 AM I just looked at mine. Between the various tax and health insurance half of my paycheck is gone.
Yep, I'll say it again....why should we continue to work?? |
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played.
You want to talk about inept??? How about the fact that she announced on national television US response time for nuclear launch?? Are you kidding me?? Talk about unfit to be president!! |
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 Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Bear - 2016-10-20 11:00 AM
jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM
Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played.
You crack me up, Mr Yellowdog.
If anyone with half a brain has been following this process they know why Trump has switched his position to pro life. He's explained it many times, and it's completely plausible. You can question the sincerity of his switch, but are you equally willing to acknowledge Hillary's flip flops?
She was opposed to Gay marriage....until she ran for POTUS.
She was a vocal supporter of NAFTA.....until she ran for POTUS.
She was a vocal advocate of the Iraq invasion......until she ran for POTUS.
She was for TPP, calling it "the gold standard"......until she ran for POTUS.
She was strongly against illegal immigration.....until she ran for POTUS.
There's a good reason why Trump cut through 16 of the best the GOP had to offer like a hot knife through butter. He didn't mince words. He spoke his mind. He called it as he saw it. He said a lot of things many people actually thought, including other candidates, but were afraid to say. He called out the political establishment on both sides for their corruption. He was unapologetic about his main thrust to put America first. Even if he loses, he was a hand grenade we needed.
Add to this summary that The Trump Organization is NOT beholden to ANY Special Interest Donors. Remember The Koch Brothers PAC refused to support him. Trump is essentially self funded with supplemental donations in the amounts of less $100 per donation.....................................
This in and of itself is HUGE! |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | NEW RASMUSSEN POLL
TRUMP just went up by 3 Points. That is a 10 point swing from yesterday.
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | jbhoot - 2016-10-20 11:09 AM
Vickie - 2016-10-20 10:43 AM
Bibliafarm - 2016-10-19 11:31 PM slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!! agree !!
Where is the "Live and let Live" clause in the Constitution ?
Said Clause does not exist! |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:34 AM
Mighty Broke - 2016-10-20 11:23 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 12:13 PM Vickie - 2016-10-20 10:43 AM Bibliafarm - 2016-10-19 11:31 PM slacy09 - 2016-10-19 11:15 PM Let me get this straight, she wants to take our guns away partly because toddlers have killed themselves with them but she's ok with a 9 month old fetus (baby) being cut apart and suctioned out of the womb??? She is nothing but filth! And I can't imagine why anyone, including Vickie, could support someone who thinks that's perfectly fine. I dare you or anyone that supports that to Google partial birth abortions and watch the videos. If you approve, then the devil must have your soul!! agree !!
http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/19/no-hillary-clinton-supreme-courts-heller-decision-wasnt-toddlers/
This answer is perhaps the biggest fabrication she has stated to date! The Heller Decision specifically addressed Individual American Citizen's PERSONAL RIGHT to bear arms on their person AND in their HOME(s)!
This fabrication involving toddlers shooting themselves is, was and continues to be ludicrous! And a complete lie to implement a smoke screen. Trump was correct in regards to The Killer's response to Heller. She was upset to the point of being furious! |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM
TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes?
This is the classic illustration of 'trickle down' economics that The Left claims does not work. I beg to differ due to The Reagan Era 'trickle down' economics results. Anytime anyone makes more spendable money it moves! Which is why it is called 'currency'! |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Mighty Broke - 2016-10-20 12:04 PM
TXBO - 2016-10-20 12:52 PM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes?
And America's Corporate Tax Rate is in the top tier in the World. Hence why America's Money from Corporations (and Jobs) are leaving America! |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | engravedinvitation - 2016-10-20 1:04 PM On the issue of health care premium costs, you can complain about Obamacare or the ACA all you want to, but it has helped a lot of folks get insurance and health care. If you want to point fingers at someone about the cost of it, point to your health insurance provider and probably to a greater degree, the pharmaceutical companies. When was the last time one of them posted a loss? When a pill cost $5, 5 years ago, but now costs $15, that is the pharmaceutical company. From cancer drugs to epi pens, big pharma is primarily to blame.
Bull - it gives more to people who choose not to work - it has hurt many people with the high deductibles and increase in premiums. Insurance companies are opting out of providing insurance in the nobama exchange because they are loosing millions. Why does an insurance business have to post a loss? My opinion is - if you are in business you want to make money, not loose.
Blame who you want, but the end goal is one payor insurance. And, many medical providers (I hate that term) will quit providing care because they can't afford to practice under that system, or take cash only.
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 1:50 PM engravedinvitation - 2016-10-20 1:04 PM On the issue of health care premium costs, you can complain about Obamacare or the ACA all you want to, but it has helped a lot of folks get insurance and health care. If you want to point fingers at someone about the cost of it, point to your health insurance provider and probably to a greater degree, the pharmaceutical companies. When was the last time one of them posted a loss? When a pill cost $5, 5 years ago, but now costs $15, that is the pharmaceutical company. From cancer drugs to epi pens, big pharma is primarily to blame. Bull - it gives more to people who choose not to work - it has hurt many people with the high deductibles and increase in premiums. Insurance companies are opting out of providing insurance in the nobama exchange because they are loosing millions. Why does an insurance business have to post a loss? My opinion is - if you are in business you want to make money, not loose.
Blame who you want, but the end goal is one payor insurance. And, many medical providers (I hate that term) will quit providing care because they can't afford to practice under that system, or take cash only.
Once they control our Health---they control US. |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 12:50 PM
engravedinvitation - 2016-10-20 1:04 PM On the issue of health care premium costs, you can complain about Obamacare or the ACA all you want to, but it has helped a lot of folks get insurance and health care. If you want to point fingers at someone about the cost of it, point to your health insurance provider and probably to a greater degree, the pharmaceutical companies. When was the last time one of them posted a loss? When a pill cost $5, 5 years ago, but now costs $15, that is the pharmaceutical company. From cancer drugs to epi pens, big pharma is primarily to blame.
Bull - it gives more to people who choose not to work - it has hurt many people with the high deductibles and increase in premiums. Insurance companies are opting out of providing insurance in the nobama exchange because they are loosing millions. Why does an insurance business have to post a loss? My opinion is - if you are in business you want to make money, not loose.
Blame who you want, but the end goal is one payor insurance. And, many medical providers (I hate that term) will quit providing care because they can't afford to practice under that system, or take cash only.
I grew up in Tennessee, (many many moons ago heheeheh), and still have family there specifically a Sister there, who is a Nurse in a Major Health Care Setting.
She was there when Al Gore implemented 'Ten Care' i.e. The Killer's Government Healthcare Plan. She states (emphatically I might add) that the leeches came out of the wood work from all over the country to Tennessee for their 'free healthcare coverage'!
So TCTR 3ctr is absolutely correct.
And to engravedinvitation, please cite specifics where the ACA i.e. Obamacare has been positive for the American Healthcare Arena. I will be totally surprised if and what the response is. Especially since I posed a very similar question to Vickie on another thread and have as of yet to receive a response. |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Mighty Broke - 2016-10-20 1:56 PM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 1:50 PM engravedinvitation - 2016-10-20 1:04 PM On the issue of health care premium costs, you can complain about Obamacare or the ACA all you want to, but it has helped a lot of folks get insurance and health care. If you want to point fingers at someone about the cost of it, point to your health insurance provider and probably to a greater degree, the pharmaceutical companies. When was the last time one of them posted a loss? When a pill cost $5, 5 years ago, but now costs $15, that is the pharmaceutical company. From cancer drugs to epi pens, big pharma is primarily to blame. Bull - it gives more to people who choose not to work - it has hurt many people with the high deductibles and increase in premiums. Insurance companies are opting out of providing insurance in the nobama exchange because they are loosing millions. Why does an insurance business have to post a loss? My opinion is - if you are in business you want to make money, not loose.
Blame who you want, but the end goal is one payor insurance. And, many medical providers (I hate that term) will quit providing care because they can't afford to practice under that system, or take cash only.
Kinda like Killary wants more government regulation and more EPA control. They already have a huge head start with water bills they have passed. We have friends who plowed up their pistachio and walnut trees in CA because they can't get enough water. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 625
Location: Harrisonville, Missouri | "And to engravedinvitation, please cite specifics where the ACA i.e. Obamacare has been positive for the American Healthcare Arena. I will be totally surprised if and what the response is. Especially since I posed a very similar question to Vickie on another thread and have as of yet to receive a response."
The line of work I am in, many clients have health insurance for the first time and aren't using the ER for their PCPs.
Edited by engravedinvitation 2016-10-20 1:05 PM
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | engravedinvitation - 2016-10-20 1:04 PM
"And to engravedinvitation, please cite specifics where the ACA i.e. Obamacare has been positive for the American Healthcare Arena. I will be totally surprised if and what the response is. Especially since I posed a very similar question to Vickie on another thread and have as of yet to receive a response."
The line of work I am in, many clients have health insurance for the first time and aren't using the ER for their PCPs.
And how much (and who) is paying for said coverage. Also, what is the cost and quality of said coverage? |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | foundation horse - 2016-10-20 12:25 PM Bear - 2016-10-20 11:00 AM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played. You crack me up, Mr Yellowdog. If anyone with half a brain has been following this process they know why Trump has switched his position to pro life. He's explained it many times, and it's completely plausible. You can question the sincerity of his switch, but are you equally willing to acknowledge Hillary's flip flops? She was opposed to Gay marriage....until she ran for POTUS. She was a vocal supporter of NAFTA.....until she ran for POTUS. She was a vocal advocate of the Iraq invasion......until she ran for POTUS. She was for TPP, calling it "the gold standard"......until she ran for POTUS. She was strongly against illegal immigration.....until she ran for POTUS. There's a good reason why Trump cut through 16 of the best the GOP had to offer like a hot knife through butter. He didn't mince words. He spoke his mind. He called it as he saw it. He said a lot of things many people actually thought, including other candidates, but were afraid to say. He called out the political establishment on both sides for their corruption. He was unapologetic about his main thrust to put America first. Even if he loses, he was a hand grenade we needed. Add to this summary that The Trump Organization is NOT beholden to ANY Special Interest Donors. Remember The Koch Brothers PAC refused to support him. Trump is essentially self funded with supplemental donations in the amounts of less $100 per donation..................................... This in and of itself is HUGE!
Not huge, Yuuuuuge. LOL |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | ridejg - 2016-10-19 10:29 PM Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-19 10:00 PM Did'nt watch are not watching if its still on, I just cant stomach her any more, I'm wishing to many bad things her way so thought I better not watch her lying face..
LOL, WE just bought a new TV and I didnt want nothing happening to it so I told myself no debates for me, did'nt want a broken TV over that trashy nasty person {Hillary} just in case the few on here didnt'nt know who the trashy nasty person was that I was talking about, LOL, I know she hung the moon with the few of you.. She cant do no wrong, yea RIGHT  |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-20 2:22 PM ridejg - 2016-10-19 10:29 PM Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-19 10:00 PM Did'nt watch are not watching if its still on, I just cant stomach her any more, I'm wishing to many bad things her way so thought I better not watch her lying face..
You are------------DEPLORABLE. LOL |
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Regular
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| The massive amounts of new registered voters are NOT coming out for Hillary. |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Reester - 2016-10-20 1:28 PM
The massive amounts of new registered voters are NOT coming out for Hillary.
Please elaborate. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Mighty Broke - 2016-10-20 1:25 PM Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-20 2:22 PM ridejg - 2016-10-19 10:29 PM Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-19 10:00 PM Did'nt watch are not watching if its still on, I just cant stomach her any more, I'm wishing to many bad things her way so thought I better not watch her lying face..
Whooo me, LOL.. Very proud being a DEPLORABLE 
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Popped
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Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | Reester - 2016-10-20 2:28 PM The massive amounts of new registered voters are NOT coming out for Hillary.
in indiana they have not said who the new registered voters are voting for..... just that the governing body is not helping in the investagation they are pointing fingers at gov. pence.
Dont you think the national oversight agency would want to get to the bottom and do everything they could to help along the investagation in a quick manner with the election comming up?
http://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/indiana-state-police-releases-full-statement-on-possible-voter-fraud |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | luluwhit - 2016-10-20 1:34 PM
Reester - 2016-10-20 2:28 PM The massive amounts of new registered voters are NOT coming out for Hillary.
in indiana they have not said who the new registered voters are voting for..... just that the governing body is not helping in the investagation they are pointing fingers at gov. pence.
Dont you think the national oversight agency would want to get to the bottom and do everything they could to help along the investagation in a quick manner with the election comming up?
http://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/indiana-state-police-releases-full-statement-on-possible-voter-fraud
The lack of desire and the pointing of fingers so to speak indicates (to those with critical thinking skills) that something is majorly out of whack! |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | foundation horse - 2016-10-20 12:34 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes? This is the classic illustration of 'trickle down' economics that The Left claims does not work. I beg to differ due to The Reagan Era 'trickle down' economics results. Anytime anyone makes more spendable money it moves! Which is why it is called 'currency'!
And big business has the money because they aren't taxed too death, jobs are created and more people contribute into the tax base. More jobs...people leave the welfare and food stamp rolls. More money is spent and more user tax is collected and it's a win, win for everyone.
If Hillary gets in, I would expect big money to take their money and business and go somewhere else. It's pretty much a no brainer.
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | slacy09 - 2016-10-20 12:24 PM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 9:46 AM Hillary kicked his racist, bigoted arse once again. I'm sure he is glad he doesn't have to do another debate.
The GOP had the perfect chance to take the White House this election but instead they nominated this totally inept piece of crap.
Well, he is the face of the alt-right which has taken over the GOP. I understand a reasonable republican being appalled by that face but they didn't step up and stop the takeover.
The GOP nominated the one person that can't beat Clinton. And the irony is, even if he had won he is a democrat politically. You want to talk abortions? Trump has always been in favor of abortions. He only says he's not now because he is the GOP nominee.
Once this is over he will go back to his original position.
The Trump supporters have been played. You want to talk about inept??? How about the fact that she announced on national television US response time for nuclear launch?? Are you kidding me?? Talk about unfit to be president!!
Not "new" news there.....this same response time was printed in an article by Jeffrey Lewis back in August of 2016...... And it is really naive to think that our enemies don't already know that fact.....LOL |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Nevertooold - 2016-10-20 1:43 PM foundation horse - 2016-10-20 12:34 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes? This is the classic illustration of 'trickle down' economics that The Left claims does not work. I beg to differ due to The Reagan Era 'trickle down' economics results. Anytime anyone makes more spendable money it moves! Which is why it is called 'currency'!
If Hillary gets in, I would expect big money to take their money and business and go somewhere else. It's pretty much a no brainer.
That's what people don't get about the tax laws too. Yes, they are overly complicated and need an overhaul, BUT... They are written to encourage money to be invested into the economy. And you see temporary tax laws put in place a lot of years to help direct capital investments where they will do the most good in the current situation, like Section 179. |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | SouthTxPonyGirl..............Thanks for that.
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Frodo - 2016-10-20 2:35 PM SouthTxPonyGirl..............Thanks for that.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2016-10-20 2:43 PM
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| Mighty Broke - 2016-10-20 10:56 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 1:50 PM engravedinvitation - 2016-10-20 1:04 PM On the issue of health care premium costs, you can complain about Obamacare or the ACA all you want to, but it has helped a lot of folks get insurance and health care. If you want to point fingers at someone about the cost of it, point to your health insurance provider and probably to a greater degree, the pharmaceutical companies. When was the last time one of them posted a loss? When a pill cost $5, 5 years ago, but now costs $15, that is the pharmaceutical company. From cancer drugs to epi pens, big pharma is primarily to blame. Bull - it gives more to people who choose not to work - it has hurt many people with the high deductibles and increase in premiums. Insurance companies are opting out of providing insurance in the nobama exchange because they are loosing millions. Why does an insurance business have to post a loss? My opinion is - if you are in business you want to make money, not loose.
Blame who you want, but the end goal is one payor insurance. And, many medical providers (I hate that term) will quit providing care because they can't afford to practice under that system, or take cash only.
This above right here. And - I want someone to ask the question of why Americans are FORCED to pay for Obamacare - you don't pay for insurance one way or the other - you get penalized on your taxes. Plain and simple, Obamacare is a tax. Period. It's great if you want it and can find an affordable option but you should not be required to pay for it. The reason - it's not sustainable if everyone does not buy in, in some form or another. I want someone to pose that question to the "lady" in the pantsuit. |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| brlraceaddict - 2016-10-20 2:47 PM
Mighty Broke - 2016-10-20 10:56 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 1:50 PM engravedinvitation - 2016-10-20 1:04 PM On the issue of health care premium costs, you can complain about Obamacare or the ACA all you want to, but it has helped a lot of folks get insurance and health care. If you want to point fingers at someone about the cost of it, point to your health insurance provider and probably to a greater degree, the pharmaceutical companies. When was the last time one of them posted a loss? When a pill cost $5, 5 years ago, but now costs $15, that is the pharmaceutical company. From cancer drugs to epi pens, big pharma is primarily to blame. Bull - it gives more to people who choose not to work - it has hurt many people with the high deductibles and increase in premiums. Insurance companies are opting out of providing insurance in the nobama exchange because they are loosing millions. Why does an insurance business have to post a loss? My opinion is - if you are in business you want to make money, not loose.
Blame who you want, but the end goal is one payor insurance. And, many medical providers (I hate that term) will quit providing care because they can't afford to practice under that system, or take cash only.
And more on Obamacare....
Just got an email that says that many companies, including Aetna, with whom I have my own insurance, is opting OUT of Obamacare. Which means anyone one with such a company who now gets a subsidy, will NOT get that subsidy next year if they keep their insurance. I did NOT go through Obamacare so I will keep mine. Unfortunately we all can expect a 20-40% increase in premiums, so the affordable care act has been anything but. |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM
TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes?
Show me ONE government program run effectively and economically. Remember the $500 wrench or toilet seat or whatever the ridiculous amount for everyday items the government paid for? The only economy your plan helps is to line the pockets of politicians and their cronies and special interest groups. Free college for Heaven's sake??!! Like Big Brother is doing such a jam up job with K thru 12 education.....Common Core? What happened to common sense where 2+2 actually equals 4?
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Frodo - 2016-10-20 2:35 PM SouthTxPonyGirl..............Thanks for that.
Your very Welcome  |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Mighty Broke - 2016-10-20 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-20 12:52 PM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes?
Might, I don't think there are many Americans with any economic sense at all. Three 4 Luck mentioned several ways that money not sent to the government could flow through the economy and there are more.
We have the highest corporate tax rate the world. Jobs and cash will not flow back into the country until that changes. If it did, significantly, it could be glorious. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | rodeoveteran - 2016-10-20 3:11 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes? Show me ONE government program run effectively and economically. Remember the $500 wrench or toilet seat or whatever the ridiculous amount for everyday items the government paid for? The only economy your plan helps is to line the pockets of politicians and their cronies and special interest groups. Free college for Heaven's sake??!! Like Big Brother is doing such a jam up job with K thru 12 education.....Common Core? What happened to common sense where 2+2 actually equals 4?
Who were you talking to there rodeoveteran? |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | She never once wore the American flag pin during the debates.................she's discusting |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 1:55 PM That's what people don't get about the tax laws too. Yes, they are overly complicated and need an overhaul, BUT... They are written to encourage money to be invested into the economy. And you see temporary tax laws put in place a lot of years to help direct capital investments where they will do the most good in the current situation, like Section 179. Section 179 is a great example of why the tax code needs to be scrapped in favor of a flate tax or consumption tax. The current progressive tax code is manipulated by those with discresionary income and it produces a result that truly burdens the middle class with little to no discretionary income. I know. I used sec. 179, I use off shore accounts and every other legal means of tax avoidance.
Edited by TXBO 2016-10-20 3:59 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | rodeoveteran - 2016-10-20 3:11 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes? Show me ONE government program run effectively and economically. Remember the $500 wrench or toilet seat or whatever the ridiculous amount for everyday items the government paid for? The only economy your plan helps is to line the pockets of politicians and their cronies and special interest groups. Free college for Heaven's sake??!! Like Big Brother is doing such a jam up job with K thru 12 education.....Common Core? What happened to common sense where 2+2 actually equals 4?
There's many, but you asked for one. The post office is one. No company can deliver to every US address 6 days a week for 47 cents a letter.
I'll give you another even though you asked for one. Medicare. The MMA of 2003 was W's parting gift to the insurance companies. It's what started the Part D gram and brought back to life Part C which is now called Medicare Advantage.
Part C and D was the beginning of privatizing Medicare. The bill of goods that W signed off on was that private companies could do a better job of providing Medicare than could the government.
It was fully implemented in 2006. Here we are 10 years later and MA costs the taxpayers 15% more than original Medicare. So much for the companies being more efficient.
Those sound bites play well on TV. Even when they are not grounded in reality. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| jd&ez - 2016-10-20 4:06 PM rodeoveteran - 2016-10-20 3:11 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes? Show me ONE government program run effectively and economically. Remember the $500 wrench or toilet seat or whatever the ridiculous amount for everyday items the government paid for? The only economy your plan helps is to line the pockets of politicians and their cronies and special interest groups. Free college for Heaven's sake??!! Like Big Brother is doing such a jam up job with K thru 12 education.....Common Core? What happened to common sense where 2+2 actually equals 4?
I'll give you another even though you asked for one. Medicare. The MMA of 2003 was W's parting gift to the insurance companies. It's what started the Part D gram and brought back to life Part C which is now called Medicare Advantage.
Part C and D was the beginning of privatizing Medicare. The bill of goods that W signed off on was that private companies could do a better job of providing Medicare than could the government.
It was fully implemented in 2006. Here we are 10 years later and MA costs the taxpayers 15% more than original Medicare. So much for the companies being more efficient.
Those sound bites play well on TV. Even when they are not grounded in reality.
You can't be serious. The US Postal Service lost $2 Billion in the second quarter alone.
And Medicare? Really? It's fubar and impossible to get accurate numbers. |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | TXBO - 2016-10-20 3:40 PM Mighty Broke - 2016-10-20 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-20 12:52 PM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes?
We have the highest corporate tax rate the world. Jobs and cash will not flow back into the country until that changes. If it did, significantly, it could be glorious.
Trickle down didn't work with Reagan and it won't work now. It did for foreign countries if that's what you mean by working. Reagan incentivized companies to move manufacturing out of this country.
Then he put in the TRA of 1986 which was the largest tax increase in history at the time.
Reagan ran against Carter's national debt but then by the time he left office he had presided over more debt than every president combined from George Washington thru Jimmy Carter.
Daddy Bush just continued that even though he called Reagan's economic policies, "voodoo economics". Then he had a bigger tax increase than the TRA of 1986. But he told us it was coming, remember his "know new taxes" speech. The right tried to say it was "no new taxes" but he showed us it was "know".
Then Clinton came in a balanced the budget and even left a surplus for W. We all know what happened after that. Including a war on a lie.
Obama has done a remarkable job considering where this country was when he took over. I wish he had done more and some things differently but we are in far better shape than we were 8 years ago.
Will Hillary be as good a president as Bill? Doubtful. But I believe she will be a good president.
I know Trump would not be. As bad as Reagan and the Bush family was this country Trump would be far worse. |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Sorry 3 4 Luck, I thought you implying that taxes would fund your proposals.....my bad!
As far as the Post Office...in case you haven't noticed, it's failing. And Medicare?? I am guessing you have no real personal experience with it. Many doctors refuse Medicare patients and one needs a good Supplemental policy in order to not go broke if one has any real medical issues. |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | TXBO - 2016-10-20 4:15 PM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 4:06 PM rodeoveteran - 2016-10-20 3:11 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes? Show me ONE government program run effectively and economically. Remember the $500 wrench or toilet seat or whatever the ridiculous amount for everyday items the government paid for? The only economy your plan helps is to line the pockets of politicians and their cronies and special interest groups. Free college for Heaven's sake??!! Like Big Brother is doing such a jam up job with K thru 12 education.....Common Core? What happened to common sense where 2+2 actually equals 4?
I'll give you another even though you asked for one. Medicare. The MMA of 2003 was W's parting gift to the insurance companies. It's what started the Part D gram and brought back to life Part C which is now called Medicare Advantage.
Part C and D was the beginning of privatizing Medicare. The bill of goods that W signed off on was that private companies could do a better job of providing Medicare than could the government.
It was fully implemented in 2006. Here we are 10 years later and MA costs the taxpayers 15% more than original Medicare. So much for the companies being more efficient.
Those sound bites play well on TV. Even when they are not grounded in reality.
And Medicare? Really? It's fubar and impossible to get accurate numbers.
What private company would do what the post office does better? UPS and FedEx won't even try.
As for Medicare, 10 years shows that private companies can't run it better.
You talk in sound bites. How about some facts to back up that nonsense? |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Now this guy knows his economic stuff. This has been going on for a couple of decades, not attributable to just one party, BOTH sides are draining us and our economy dry.
https://www.facebook.com/AwarenessAct/videos/1294153087265892/
This link takes you to a FB page. The video I am referring to is titled ' News Anchor Completely loses his sh*t on Live TV"
I have no idea how to find a link that goes directly to the video itself. And here's a surprise, it's NOT Fox News! |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| jd&ez - 2016-10-20 4:18 PM TXBO - 2016-10-20 4:15 PM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 4:06 PM rodeoveteran - 2016-10-20 3:11 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes? Show me ONE government program run effectively and economically. Remember the $500 wrench or toilet seat or whatever the ridiculous amount for everyday items the government paid for? The only economy your plan helps is to line the pockets of politicians and their cronies and special interest groups. Free college for Heaven's sake??!! Like Big Brother is doing such a jam up job with K thru 12 education.....Common Core? What happened to common sense where 2+2 actually equals 4?
I'll give you another even though you asked for one. Medicare. The MMA of 2003 was W's parting gift to the insurance companies. It's what started the Part D gram and brought back to life Part C which is now called Medicare Advantage.
Part C and D was the beginning of privatizing Medicare. The bill of goods that W signed off on was that private companies could do a better job of providing Medicare than could the government.
It was fully implemented in 2006. Here we are 10 years later and MA costs the taxpayers 15% more than original Medicare. So much for the companies being more efficient.
Those sound bites play well on TV. Even when they are not grounded in reality.
And Medicare? Really? It's fubar and impossible to get accurate numbers.
As for Medicare, 10 years shows that private companies can't run it better.
You talk in sound bites. How about some facts to back up that nonsense?
http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/674728.pdf
Let me summorize with a few sound bites you'll see:
Unfunded liabilities
Unable to meet pension obligations
Declining revenues
Increasing expenses
Risk to tax payers
You're out of your depth.
Edited by TXBO 2016-10-20 4:33 PM
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| jd&ez - 2016-10-20 4:18 PM
TXBO - 2016-10-20 4:15 PM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 4:06 PM rodeoveteran - 2016-10-20 3:11 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM What private company would do what the post office does better? UPS and FedEx won't even try.
As for Medicare, 10 years shows that private companies can't run it better.
You talk in sound bites. How about some facts to back up that nonsense?
Are you aware that the USPS uses UPS to ship many of their packages? So apparently UPS CAN do it better. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-20 2:41 PM Frodo - 2016-10-20 2:35 PM SouthTxPonyGirl..............Thanks for that.
Pretty sad they got in trouble for a candidate that is on their side. Why would they stand behind a candidate that hates the police? LOL
I watched it on TV when Trump was talking with and thanking the officers for their service and they took the picture. I thought it was terrible that they got into trouble for wearing a Trump hat. If it was Hillary..but then again...McManus, the SAPD police chief, is an over paid POS. He never backs his men. He left once to work for the CPS but then came back to be police chief. He needs to stay gone. He's getting $212,000.00 a year while his officers average pay is $46,000.00.
Edited by Nevertooold 2016-10-20 4:48 PM
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | TXBO - 2016-10-20 3:58 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 1:55 PM That's what people don't get about the tax laws too. Yes, they are overly complicated and need an overhaul, BUT... They are written to encourage money to be invested into the economy. And you see temporary tax laws put in place a lot of years to help direct capital investments where they will do the most good in the current situation, like Section 179. Section 179 is a great example of why the tax code needs to be scrapped in favor of a flate tax or consumption tax. The current progressive tax code is manipulated by those with discresionary income and it produces a result that truly burdens the middle class with little to no discretionary income. I know. I used sec. 179, I use off shore accounts and every other legal means of tax avoidance.
I used the hell out of it in 2012-13 and got setup to weather the downturn we knew was coming. Haven't needed it since.  |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Nevertooold - 2016-10-20 4:43 PM Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-20 2:41 PM Frodo - 2016-10-20 2:35 PM SouthTxPonyGirl..............Thanks for that.
I watched it on TV when Trump was talking with and thanking the officers for their service and they took the picture. I thought it was terrible that they got into trouble for wearing a Trump hat. If it was Hillary..but then again...McManus, the SAPD police chief, is an over paid POS. He never backs his men. He left once to work for the CPS but then came back to be police chief. He needs to stay gone. He's getting $212,000.00 a year while his officers average pay is $46,000.00.
Yep its pretty sad for these men to get in trouble for wearing Trumps caps and for believeing in someone that they trust. Now if it were ole Killary noone would have said a darn word.. McManus should have stood behind his men, what a jerk. he should have stayed at CPS. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 4:50 PM TXBO - 2016-10-20 3:58 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 1:55 PM That's what people don't get about the tax laws too. Yes, they are overly complicated and need an overhaul, BUT... They are written to encourage money to be invested into the economy. And you see temporary tax laws put in place a lot of years to help direct capital investments where they will do the most good in the current situation, like Section 179. Section 179 is a great example of why the tax code needs to be scrapped in favor of a flate tax or consumption tax. The current progressive tax code is manipulated by those with discresionary income and it produces a result that truly burdens the middle class with little to no discretionary income. I know. I used sec. 179, I use off shore accounts and every other legal means of tax avoidance.
Yea, so did I. I don't believe it is available now or my accountant would have me using it. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | TXBO - 2016-10-20 4:32 PM
jd&ez - 2016-10-20 4:18 PM TXBO - 2016-10-20 4:15 PM jd&ez - 2016-10-20 4:06 PM rodeoveteran - 2016-10-20 3:11 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 11:59 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 11:52 AM lhighquality - 2016-10-20 11:46 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-20 10:18 AM luluwhit - 2016-10-20 11:01 AM ndcowgirl - 2016-10-20 10:30 AM I watched the debate. I was wondering why they considered Medicare and Social Security entitlement when a person pays into the programs their entire working life. the entitlement comes in when those benefits are given to individuals who have never paid into the system.
did i hear them correctly that we are now supporting 60%of individuals in this country? how is it possible for 40% of us to pay for 60%?
Yes, I have looked at my paycheck & it makes me sick all the money that comes out!!!!!!!!!!! How many good paying jobs do you think could be created in America if companies didn't have to give 40% of earning to the government in taxes? Show me ONE government program run effectively and economically. Remember the $500 wrench or toilet seat or whatever the ridiculous amount for everyday items the government paid for? The only economy your plan helps is to line the pockets of politicians and their cronies and special interest groups. Free college for Heaven's sake??!! Like Big Brother is doing such a jam up job with K thru 12 education.....Common Core? What happened to common sense where 2+2 actually equals 4?
I'll give you another even though you asked for one. Medicare. The MMA of 2003 was W's parting gift to the insurance companies. It's what started the Part D gram and brought back to life Part C which is now called Medicare Advantage.
Part C and D was the beginning of privatizing Medicare. The bill of goods that W signed off on was that private companies could do a better job of providing Medicare than could the government.
It was fully implemented in 2006. Here we are 10 years later and MA costs the taxpayers 15% more than original Medicare. So much for the companies being more efficient.
Those sound bites play well on TV. Even when they are not grounded in reality.
And Medicare? Really? It's fubar and impossible to get accurate numbers.
As for Medicare, 10 years shows that private companies can't run it better.
You talk in sound bites. How about some facts to back up that nonsense?http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/674728.pdf Let me summorize with a few sound bites you'll see:
Unfunded liabilities
Unable to meet pension obligations
Declining revenues
Increasing expenses
Risk to tax payers
You're out of your depth.
I just thank God there are people like you who are still around, Jim. At least it gives me some small vestige of hope.
I have to confess I've been pretty blue these days. I just don't see a whole lot of reasons out there to be optimistic for our future, as a nation. I'm to the point where I'm just resigned to hunkering down and preparing for the inevitable....a huge correction, and by that I'm not just talking about the markets. The inertia has been toward a socialist utopia for the last 25 years, or more. Even if Trump wins the election, he will be up against the career politicians and a political establishment that will stifle anything he wants to get done, so one way of looking at a Hillary presidency is maybe the "reset" we obviously need will be hastened. In other words, if the sheeple get what they want, maybe they will learn the hard way. I think 1DSoon nailed it when he/she said hunger is a great motivator, but that won't happen until the very end. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Bear - 2016-10-20 5:06 PM I just thank God there are people like you who are still around, Jim. At least it gives me some small vestige of hope. I have to confess I've been pretty blue these days. I just don't see a whole lot of reasons out there to be optimistic for our future, as a nation. I'm to the point where I'm just resigned to hunkering down and preparing for the inevitable....a huge correction, and by that I'm not just talking about the markets. The inertia has been toward a socialist utopia for the last 25 years, or more. Even if Trump wins the election, he will be up against the career politicians and a political establishment that will stifle anything he wants to get done, so one way of looking at a Hillary presidency is maybe the "reset" we obviously need will be hastened. In other words, if the sheeple get what they want, maybe they will learn the hard way. I think 1DSoon nailed it when he/she said hunger is a great motivator, but that won't happen until the very end. Bear, I certainly understand your dispair. I want my children to grow up in a free America where the Constitution is respected and followed. It's been more than 25 years of deterioration of rights. I still want to believe that we can get back to respecting the Constitution but it also would be incrimentally. This President will most certainly set the judiciary for a generation. The correct justices could reverse the pendulum. The wrong justices will take us to testing remedies within the Constitution that are unprecedented in over 200 years. It would be both facinating and harrowing. Unlike the incremental deterioration of state's rights through the commerce clause, attacks on the 1st and 2nd amendment will most certainly be met with resistence. Civil disobedience is most assured but I remain hopeful that peaceful solutions can be reached. We have Article 5 convention as a next step and then seccession will be on the table.
All of this might be good in the long run. My faith tells me that God institutes governments. Maybe he's not though humbling us. I'll just trust his will. We are certainly at such a division in our government that something has to change. We haven't passed a budget in 8 years. We have 8 Supreme Court Justices. Our government is at a stand still. I just pray that corrections can be peaceful.
Edited by TXBO 2016-10-20 5:40 PM
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| TXBO - 2016-10-20 5:37 PM
Bear - 2016-10-20 5:06 PM I just thank God there are people like you who are still around, Jim. At least it gives me some small vestige of hope. I have to confess I've been pretty blue these days. I just don't see a whole lot of reasons out there to be optimistic for our future, as a nation. I'm to the point where I'm just resigned to hunkering down and preparing for the inevitable....a huge correction, and by that I'm not just talking about the markets. The inertia has been toward a socialist utopia for the last 25 years, or more. Even if Trump wins the election, he will be up against the career politicians and a political establishment that will stifle anything he wants to get done, so one way of looking at a Hillary presidency is maybe the "reset" we obviously need will be hastened. In other words, if the sheeple get what they want, maybe they will learn the hard way. I think 1DSoon nailed it when he/she said hunger is a great motivator, but that won't happen until the very end. Bear, I certainly understand your dispair. I want my children to grow up in a free America where the Constitution is respected and followed. It's been more than 25 years of deterioration of rights. I still want to believe that we can get back to respecting the Constitution but it also would be incrimentally. This President will most certainly set the judiciary for a generation. The correct justices could reverse the pendulum. The wrong justices will take us to testing remedies within the Constitution that are unprecedented in over 200 years. It would be both facinating and harrowing. Unlike the incremental deterioration of state's rights through the commerce clause, attacks on the 1st and 2nd amendment will most certainly be met with resistence. Civil disobedience is most assured but I remain hopeful that peaceful solutions can be reached. We have Article 5 convention as a next step and then seccession will be on the table.
All of this might be good in the long run. My faith tells me that God institutes governments. Maybe he's not though humbling us. I'll just trust his will. We are certainly at such a division in our government that something has to change. We haven't passed a budget in 8 years. We have 8 Supreme Court Justices. Our government is at a stand still. I just pray that corrections can be peaceful.
I agree with both of you on our present state and the sad direction it is headed. However I think we are far closer to our second civil war than you think. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| jbhoot - 2016-10-20 6:09 PM TXBO - 2016-10-20 5:37 PM Bear - 2016-10-20 5:06 PM I just thank God there are people like you who are still around, Jim. At least it gives me some small vestige of hope. I have to confess I've been pretty blue these days. I just don't see a whole lot of reasons out there to be optimistic for our future, as a nation. I'm to the point where I'm just resigned to hunkering down and preparing for the inevitable....a huge correction, and by that I'm not just talking about the markets. The inertia has been toward a socialist utopia for the last 25 years, or more. Even if Trump wins the election, he will be up against the career politicians and a political establishment that will stifle anything he wants to get done, so one way of looking at a Hillary presidency is maybe the "reset" we obviously need will be hastened. In other words, if the sheeple get what they want, maybe they will learn the hard way. I think 1DSoon nailed it when he/she said hunger is a great motivator, but that won't happen until the very end. Bear, I certainly understand your dispair. I want my children to grow up in a free America where the Constitution is respected and followed. It's been more than 25 years of deterioration of rights. I still want to believe that we can get back to respecting the Constitution but it also would be incrimentally. This President will most certainly set the judiciary for a generation. The correct justices could reverse the pendulum. The wrong justices will take us to testing remedies within the Constitution that are unprecedented in over 200 years. It would be both facinating and harrowing. Unlike the incremental deterioration of state's rights through the commerce clause, attacks on the 1st and 2nd amendment will most certainly be met with resistence. Civil disobedience is most assured but I remain hopeful that peaceful solutions can be reached. We have Article 5 convention as a next step and then seccession will be on the table.
All of this might be good in the long run. My faith tells me that God institutes governments. Maybe he's not though humbling us. I'll just trust his will. We are certainly at such a division in our government that something has to change. We haven't passed a budget in 8 years. We have 8 Supreme Court Justices. Our government is at a stand still. I just pray that corrections can be peaceful.
I agree with both of you on our present state and the sad direction it is headed. However I think we are far closer to our second civil war than you think.
I hope your wrong, Hoot. I just have to remain hopeful that solutions can be reached without violence. There are still unused remedies. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible? |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible?
I posted this on another thread....2/3 of BOTH houses of Congress ... OR.....application by 2/3 of the state's legislatures. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2016-10-20 7:00 PM
Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible?
I posted this on another thread....2/3 of BOTH houses of Congress ... OR.....application by 2/3 of the state's legislatures.
So, if 2/3rds of the state legislatures vote in favor, that's all it takes? |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Bear - 2016-10-20 8:51 PM NJJ - 2016-10-20 7:00 PM Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible? I posted this on another thread....2/3 of BOTH houses of Congress ... OR.....application by 2/3 of the state's legislatures. So, if 2/3rds of the state legislatures vote in favor, that's all it takes?
And then 3/4 to ratify. Things will have to get worse But they will. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible?
I believe there would most certainly be an attempt before talks of succession or revolution. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I just don't see it ever happening. It's too tall an order, by design.
I am having a hard time imagining we will ever get things on the right track without widespread uprising or revolt. People like Soros and the Obamunists want chaos, I realize, but I'm not sure they are going to like the kind of civil disobedience, or even worse, I'm envisioning. More and more, people are beginning to realize the widespread corruption.
Trump's call for term limits is probably looked at as a Hail Mary, but it is a very popular position. It will never happen, in my opinion. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 4:50 PM
TXBO - 2016-10-20 3:58 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 1:55 PM That's what people don't get about the tax laws too. Yes, they are overly complicated and need an overhaul, BUT... They are written to encourage money to be invested into the economy. And you see temporary tax laws put in place a lot of years to help direct capital investments where they will do the most good in the current situation, like Section 179. Section 179 is a great example of why the tax code needs to be scrapped in favor of a flate tax or consumption tax. The current progressive tax code is manipulated by those with discresionary income and it produces a result that truly burdens the middle class with little to no discretionary income. I know. I used sec. 179, I use off shore accounts and every other legal means of tax avoidance.
It's a godsend for a lot of my clients, and I promise they're middle-class!!! |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | TXBO - 2016-10-20 4:59 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 4:50 PM TXBO - 2016-10-20 3:58 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 1:55 PM That's what people don't get about the tax laws too. Yes, they are overly complicated and need an overhaul, BUT... They are written to encourage money to be invested into the economy. And you see temporary tax laws put in place a lot of years to help direct capital investments where they will do the most good in the current situation, like Section 179. Section 179 is a great example of why the tax code needs to be scrapped in favor of a flate tax or consumption tax. The current progressive tax code is manipulated by those with discresionary income and it produces a result that truly burdens the middle class with little to no discretionary income. I know. I used sec. 179, I use off shore accounts and every other legal means of tax avoidance.
It's still in place thank goodness!! |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:19 PM Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible? I believe there would most certainly be an attempt before talks of succession or revolution.
Actually there is a huge movement for a convention of the states. http://www.conventionofstates.com/ |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | My level of understanding is limited but Stu Varney, pretty smart guy, was just on Fox and Friends, explaining how Hillary's economic plan (entitlements gone wild, taxing the rich and corporations) would over the years add to the debt by 9 trillion dollars. He said Trump's plan was by far the best as he intended to cut taxes on every level flooding money into the economy and freeing people up to spend. That's what it's all about. Worked for Reagan. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Chandler's Mom - 2016-10-20 11:39 PM TXBO - 2016-10-20 4:59 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 4:50 PM TXBO - 2016-10-20 3:58 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 1:55 PM That's what people don't get about the tax laws too. Yes, they are overly complicated and need an overhaul, BUT... They are written to encourage money to be invested into the economy. And you see temporary tax laws put in place a lot of years to help direct capital investments where they will do the most good in the current situation, like Section 179. Section 179 is a great example of why the tax code needs to be scrapped in favor of a flate tax or consumption tax. The current progressive tax code is manipulated by those with discresionary income and it produces a result that truly burdens the middle class with little to no discretionary income. I know. I used sec. 179, I use off shore accounts and every other legal means of tax avoidance. It's still in place thank goodness!!
Great. Thanks. I better get busy buying some heifers. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Chandler's Mom - 2016-10-20 11:33 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 4:50 PM
TXBO - 2016-10-20 3:58 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 1:55 PM That's what people don't get about the tax laws too. Yes, they are overly complicated and need an overhaul, BUT... They are written to encourage money to be invested into the economy. And you see temporary tax laws put in place a lot of years to help direct capital investments where they will do the most good in the current situation, like Section 179. Section 179 is a great example of why the tax code needs to be scrapped in favor of a flate tax or consumption tax. The current progressive tax code is manipulated by those with discresionary income and it produces a result that truly burdens the middle class with little to no discretionary income. I know. I used sec. 179, I use off shore accounts and every other legal means of tax avoidance.
It's a godsend for a lot of my clients, and I promise they're middle-class!!!
I never meant to suggest that it doesn't help the middle class. Only that it helps the wealthy more. How many middle class families have $500k laying around to take full advantage? |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Frodo - 2016-10-21 6:30 AM My level of understanding is limited but Stu Varney, pretty smart guy, was just on Fox and Friends, explaining how Hillary's economic plan (entitlements gone wild, taxing the rich and corporations) would over the years add to the debt by 9 trillion dollars. He said Trump's plan was by far the best as he intended to cut taxes on every level flooding money into the economy and freeing people up to spend. That's what it's all about. Worked for Reagan.
It certainly depends on what "experts" you rely on for information....They all vary greatly..... Another view point .....
The latest estimate shows Clinton’s economic plan would add $200 billion to the national debt over the next decade, while Trump's would add $5.3 trillion – or 26.5 times as much as Clinton’s – according to a new report from the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB).
Debt held by the public is currently over $14 trillion, or 77 percent of the gross domestic product. Under Clinton’s plan, debt would rise to over 86 percent of GDP under, while under Trump’s plan it would rise to over 105 percent of GDP.
The report is based partly on “rough and preliminary estimates” of the two candidates’ more recent economic proposals. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2016-10-21 10:04 AM
Frodo - 2016-10-21 6:30 AM My level of understanding is limited but Stu Varney, pretty smart guy, was just on Fox and Friends, explaining how Hillary's economic plan (entitlements gone wild, taxing the rich and corporations) would over the years add to the debt by 9 trillion dollars. He said Trump's plan was by far the best as he intended to cut taxes on every level flooding money into the economy and freeing people up to spend. That's what it's all about. Worked for Reagan.
It certainly depends on what "experts" you rely on for information....They all vary greatly..... Another view point .....
The latest estimate shows Clinton’s economic plan would add $200 billion to the national debt over the next decade, while Trump's would add $5.3 trillion – or 26.5 times as much as Clinton’s – according to a new report from the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB).
Debt held by the public is currently over $14 trillion, or 77 percent of the gross domestic product. Under Clinton’s plan, debt would rise to over 86 percent of GDP under, while under Trump’s plan it would rise to over 105 percent of GDP.
The report is based partly on “rough and preliminary estimates” of the two candidates’ more recent economic proposals.
I don't believe this for a minute. I realize the word "nonpartisan" lends credibility to this but heck, the highly touted "nonpartisan" CBO can't even make accurate projections from one year to the next. It seems to me they recently made an upward "revision" to the deficit for 2016. They'd projected a deficit of around $450 billion, but revised that to about $600 billion. Even the CBO has been scrutinized and criticized a lot for many years. It's just very hard to make these projections from one year to the next.
Do you really believe Hillary's plan will only add $200 billion to the national debt over 10 years? That's practically a balanced budget by today's standards, especially when you take into account that the national debt increased by $10 Trillion over less than 8 years. I realize it makes your candidate look good, but she is going to basically continue Obama's policies. I don't believe for a minute she can all of a sudden lower the budget deficit to an average of $20 Billion per year over the next 10 years.
How do these "experts" take into account the effect of lowered taxes on the economy? Do they project any tax revenue increases from the tax cuts, or do they simply discount this as "trickle down" that won't "trickle"? What about repatriation of $2 Trillion in offshore corporate money? How does that factor in?
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:19 PM
Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible?
I believe there would most certainly be an attempt before talks of succession or revolution.
I have ALREADY heard mention of Revolution from, what I consider, mainstream folks in regards to current events. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| foundation horse - 2016-10-21 11:04 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:19 PM Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible? I believe there would most certainly be an attempt before talks of succession or revolution. I have ALREADY heard mention of Revolution from, what I consider, mainstream folks in regards to current events.
Sure. I hear it also. I also seriously doubt many will give up their lives with their families to actually revolt. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | TXBO - 2016-10-21 10:18 AM foundation horse - 2016-10-21 11:04 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:19 PM Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible? I believe there would most certainly be an attempt before talks of succession or revolution. I have ALREADY heard mention of Revolution from, what I consider, mainstream folks in regards to current events.
Cause it's never happened before? Remember we never learn from history..... |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Bear - 2016-10-21 10:48 AM NJJ - 2016-10-21 10:04 AM Frodo - 2016-10-21 6:30 AM My level of understanding is limited but Stu Varney, pretty smart guy, was just on Fox and Friends, explaining how Hillary's economic plan (entitlements gone wild, taxing the rich and corporations) would over the years add to the debt by 9 trillion dollars. He said Trump's plan was by far the best as he intended to cut taxes on every level flooding money into the economy and freeing people up to spend. That's what it's all about. Worked for Reagan. It certainly depends on what "experts" you rely on for information....They all vary greatly..... Another view point .....
The latest estimate shows Clinton’s economic plan would add $200 billion to the national debt over the next decade, while Trump's would add $5.3 trillion – or 26.5 times as much as Clinton’s – according to a new report from the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CRFB).
Debt held by the public is currently over $14 trillion, or 77 percent of the gross domestic product. Under Clinton’s plan, debt would rise to over 86 percent of GDP under, while under Trump’s plan it would rise to over 105 percent of GDP.
The report is based partly on “rough and preliminary estimates” of the two candidates’ more recent economic proposals. I don't believe this for a minute. I realize the word "nonpartisan" lends credibility to this but heck, the highly touted "nonpartisan" CBO can't even make accurate projections from one year to the next. It seems to me they recently made an upward "revision" to the deficit for 2016. They'd projected a deficit of around $450 billion, but revised that to about $600 billion. Even the CBO has been scrutinized and criticized a lot for many years. It's just very hard to make these projections from one year to the next. Do you really believe Hillary's plan will only add $200 billion to the national debt over 10 years? That's practically a balanced budget by today's standards, especially when you take into account that the national debt increased by $10 Trillion over less than 8 years. I realize it makes your candidate look good, but she is going to basically continue Obama's policies. I don't believe for a minute she can all of a sudden lower the budget deficit to an average of $20 Billion per year over the next 10 years. How do these "experts" take into account the effect of lowered taxes on the economy? Do they project any tax revenue increases from the tax cuts, or do they simply discount this as "trickle down" that won't "trickle"? What about repatriation of $2 Trillion in offshore corporate money? How does that factor in?
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
Edited by NJJ 2016-10-21 11:37 AM
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Silly Filly - 2016-10-21 11:23 AM TXBO - 2016-10-21 10:18 AM foundation horse - 2016-10-21 11:04 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:19 PM Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible? I believe there would most certainly be an attempt before talks of succession or revolution. I have ALREADY heard mention of Revolution from, what I consider, mainstream folks in regards to current events.
In the mean time, I continue to hope for a nonviolent return to freedom.
Edited by TXBO 2016-10-21 11:39 AM
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:55 AM
NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since.
It's a typical Democrat talking point whenever there's a discussion of the economy under Reagan. |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Bear - 2016-10-21 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:55 AM NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since. It's a typical Democrat talking point whenever there's a discussion of the economy under Reagan.
Apparently, NEITHER of you were a farmer in the 80s....I think you will find that most will disagree with you on the greatness of the economy.....  |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2016-10-21 12:49 PM
Bear - 2016-10-21 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:55 AM NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since. It's a typical Democrat talking point whenever there's a discussion of the economy under Reagan.
So, now you want to get into a discussion about the farm crisis of the 80's?
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | NJJ - 2016-10-21 12:49 PM Bear - 2016-10-21 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:55 AM NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since. It's a typical Democrat talking point whenever there's a discussion of the economy under Reagan.
I was a kid back then, but from what I remember it was the early 80s that were so horrible. There was a lot more going on than presidential economic policy, it had started with the 70s boom cycle setting people up to fail because they overextended themselves, and then world events conspired to damage exports at the same time other factors were coming into play. We ourselves were doing quite well farming in the late 80s and early 90s. The late 90s/early 2000s were rough, and as a beginning farmer, I hung on by the skin of my teeth. We're going through another rough period now as an industry. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| NJJ - 2016-10-21 12:49 PM Bear - 2016-10-21 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:55 AM NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since. It's a typical Democrat talking point whenever there's a discussion of the economy under Reagan.
Actually, I was. Worked the tobacco farms throughout my childhood. We didn't have the money for land so we contracted to work in the burley tobacco fields of upper east TN. Got paid nothing per hour and no salary. If and when the tobacco made it through auction, I got my percentage. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| NJJ - 2016-10-21 12:49 PM Bear - 2016-10-21 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:55 AM NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since. It's a typical Democrat talking point whenever there's a discussion of the economy under Reagan.
Oh, and nobody said it was great. What I said was Reagan's supply side economic plan killed stagflation, continually improved the economy and saved us from a mess that Carter may not have been responsible for but certainly couldn't fix.
Now go google stagflation. |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | TXBO - 2016-10-21 1:09 PM NJJ - 2016-10-21 12:49 PM Bear - 2016-10-21 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:55 AM NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since. It's a typical Democrat talking point whenever there's a discussion of the economy under Reagan.
Now go google stagflation.
LOL....I don't have to....I LIVED through it !!! |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | TXBO - 2016-10-21 2:09 PM NJJ - 2016-10-21 12:49 PM Bear - 2016-10-21 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:55 AM NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since. It's a typical Democrat talking point whenever there's a discussion of the economy under Reagan.
Now go google stagflation.
But Carter himself really wasn't affected as a farmer because he had a huge peanut quota that carried him over.
But all of us who are his relatives and neighbors were. Our quotas were not that large and many of us did loose the family farm.
That said - I am glad they don't have the quotas any more - it was another form of government handout.
Edited by 3canstorun 2016-10-21 2:37 PM
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:37 AM
Silly Filly - 2016-10-21 11:23 AM TXBO - 2016-10-21 10:18 AM foundation horse - 2016-10-21 11:04 AM TXBO - 2016-10-20 9:19 PM Bear - 2016-10-20 6:43 PM What is required to convene an article V convention of the states? Is that even plausible? I believe there would most certainly be an attempt before talks of succession or revolution. I have ALREADY heard mention of Revolution from, what I consider, mainstream folks in regards to current events.
In the mean time, I continue to hope for a nonviolent return to freedom.
Per historical reference only approximately 3 percent of American Colonists participated that is fought in The American Revolutionary War. However participation in The American Civil War was considerably more............ |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This article from Forbes is an analysis of Hillary's plan for social security reform.
It's an interesting article that highlights a lot of implications of her plan. Note how her plan will ultimately reduce the federal income tax revenues. Basically she's robbing Peter to pay Paul. It also touches on her plan to raise capital gains tax. Worth the read:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbiggs/2016/10/21/raising-social-s...
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | TXBO - 2016-10-21 9:18 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2016-10-20 11:33 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 4:50 PM
TXBO - 2016-10-20 3:58 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-20 1:55 PM That's what people don't get about the tax laws too. Yes, they are overly complicated and need an overhaul, BUT... They are written to encourage money to be invested into the economy. And you see temporary tax laws put in place a lot of years to help direct capital investments where they will do the most good in the current situation, like Section 179. Section 179 is a great example of why the tax code needs to be scrapped in favor of a flate tax or consumption tax. The current progressive tax code is manipulated by those with discresionary income and it produces a result that truly burdens the middle class with little to no discretionary income. I know. I used sec. 179, I use off shore accounts and every other legal means of tax avoidance.
It's a godsend for a lot of my clients, and I promise they're middle-class!!!
I never meant to suggest that it doesn't help the middle class. Only that it helps the wealthy more. How many middle class families have $500k laying around to take full advantage?
Most of my clients are farmers and the purchase of a new tractor or combine can usually get them out of the tax situation. With the prices/yields this year we may not need it. . . . Things are tough in our area right now. Guess that's most areas tho.
Edited by Chandler's Mom 2016-10-22 12:23 AM
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-21 1:01 PM
NJJ - 2016-10-21 12:49 PM Bear - 2016-10-21 12:04 PM TXBO - 2016-10-21 11:55 AM NJJ - 2016-10-21 11:35 AM....
I, also, would like to question those who are in agriculture in this forum to tell us how the "revered" Reagan "trickle down" theory worked for them in the 1980s ....It was the worst time in history (other than the great depression) for bankruptcies, farmers losing their family farms and some even committing suicide!
God I hate when hacks try to rewrite history. Reagan inherited the highest misery index of all time from a failed Democratic President. His supply side economic plan did exactly what it was meant to do. HIs campaign was honest in some of the pain that comes with it. His plan reduced unemployment and inflation like no president before or since. It's a typical Democrat talking point whenever there's a discussion of the economy under Reagan.
This exactly^^^^ |
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