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 I hate cooking and cleaning
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Location: Jersey Girl | I saw in my news feed this morning....they were feeding Nutrena Wrangler pellets 12%. It was purchased from Town and Country Feeds in MS. So sad. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
  
Location: In The Land of Cotton | There was another one on my feed that also died in LA - a pregnant mare. Also, from the same feed company. Nutrena
Edited by 3canstorun 2016-10-27 7:49 AM
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 7:20 AM There was another one on my feed that also died in LA - a pregnant mare. Also, the same feed.
They said the mare died from a Mare and Foal formula. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Ugg, the pain of losing one plus the anger knowing it was from contaminated feed because of human error or a company is not through enough is terrible. So sad. |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Nateracer - 2016-10-27 8:37 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 7:20 AM There was another one on my feed that also died in LA - a pregnant mare. Also, the same feed.
They said the mare died from a Mare and Foal formula.
Here is her quote - it does say Nutrena feed, which is what was fed to the other horse in Perry.
Kayla Keith added 3 new photos — with Lacey Marie Guidry and 22 others. Horse friends feel free to share. I am at a loss of words right now. We had to put "Feel My Fame" down and she was 6 months pregnant. I am hurt, sad, broken hearted but most of all I am furious. Nutrena feed is what we suspect. She is having an autopsy done to confirm this. I'm not posting the videos I have of her because they are so hard to watch. This is a warning to test your feed if you are feeding any of the Nutrena feeds! I am going to fight as hard as I can to make sure another horse does not have to suffer through this. I am going to miss her. RIP SweetCheeks. |
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  Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | Came across my fb too. So sad.  |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed? |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:59 AM I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed?
In your dreams - ADM didn't. |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 7:48 AM Nateracer - 2016-10-27 8:37 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 7:20 AM There was another one on my feed that also died in LA - a pregnant mare. Also, the same feed.
They said the mare died from a Mare and Foal formula.
Kayla Keith added 3 new photos — with Lacey Marie Guidry and 22 others.
Horse friends feel free to share. I am at a loss of words right now. We had to put "Feel My Fame" down and she was 6 months pregnant. I am hurt, sad, broken hearted but most of all I am furious. Nutrena feed is what we suspect. She is having an autopsy done to confirm this. I'm not posting the videos I have of her because they are so hard to watch. This is a warning to test your feed if you are feeding any of the Nutrena feeds! I am going to fight as hard as I can to make sure another horse does not have to suffer through this. I am going to miss her. RIP SweetCheeks.
Yes...It's a Nutrena brand.
BUT... The one (nbha world) is a Wrangler formula and hers was a Mare and Foal. She stated that in the comments, not just on the original post. Which means there are more than 1 kind/variety that has the toxins in the feed. That means there could be other varieties that have it too.
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | True Nate - that is why when a company who produces medicated feeds say their stuff is safe and never run on the same line, isn't' in the vacinity etc., etc., you should not believe them. Cross contamination happens. And animals die. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Nateracer - 2016-10-27 8:05 AM
3canstorun - 2016-10-27 7:48 AM Nateracer - 2016-10-27 8:37 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 7:20 AM There was another one on my feed that also died in LA - a pregnant mare. Also, the same feed.
They said the mare died from a Mare and Foal formula.
Kayla Keith added 3 new photos — with Lacey Marie Guidry and 22 others.
Horse friends feel free to share. I am at a loss of words right now. We had to put "Feel My Fame" down and she was 6 months pregnant. I am hurt, sad, broken hearted but most of all I am furious. Nutrena feed is what we suspect. She is having an autopsy done to confirm this. I'm not posting the videos I have of her because they are so hard to watch. This is a warning to test your feed if you are feeding any of the Nutrena feeds! I am going to fight as hard as I can to make sure another horse does not have to suffer through this. I am going to miss her. RIP SweetCheeks.
BUT... The one (nbha world) is a Wrangler formula and hers was a Mare and Foal. She stated that in the comments, not just on the original post. Which means there are more than 1 kind/variety that has the toxins in the feed. That means there could be other varieties that have it too.
This is so sad. Hope Nutrena does what is right. It won't bring back the lost horses but they still need to. Hopefully they will pull this feed off of production.
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:03 AM
hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:59 AM I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed?
In your dreams - ADM didn't.
They'll deny, deny, deny, just like ADM did. They'll find something else to place the blame on. |
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | I am so glad I got the info on here about Nutrena! I fed it for years ago, so glad I switched. This is sad. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | Gunner11 - 2016-10-27 8:22 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:03 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:59 AM I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed? In your dreams - ADM didn't. They'll deny, deny, deny, just like ADM did. They'll find something else to place the blame on.
Of course, it's never the companies fault. |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:19 AM
True Nate - that is why when a company who produces medicated feeds say their stuff is safe and never run on the same line, isn't' in the vacinity etc., etc., you should not believe them. Cross contamination happens. And animals die.
Exactly.
Anytime I have mentioned to people the reason I stopped feeding or won't feed certain brands, they stop listening. They don't want to hear it.
I did finally get my mom to switch hers from Nutrena. And if someone asks what she feed and asks why she swapped, shell tell them bc the feed wasn't safe. And then they tune out...
I don't get it.
I know so many people who just keep feeding it bc "Well I've never had any issues."
I do feel bad for the owners' losses, and for the suffering animals. But at the same time I'm angry that we even have to deal with this, and that many are deaf to it bc it hasn't affected them.
But I am sure that my ponies are safe and taken care of and that's all I can do. |
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Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | dashnlotti - 2016-10-27 8:56 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:19 AM True Nate - that is why when a company who produces medicated feeds say their stuff is safe and never run on the same line, isn't' in the vacinity etc., etc., you should not believe them. Cross contamination happens. And animals die. Exactly. Anytime I have mentioned to people the reason I stopped feeding or won't feed certain brands, they stop listening. They don't want to hear it. I did finally get my mom to switch hers from Nutrena. And if someone asks what she feed and asks why she swapped, shell tell them bc the feed wasn't safe. And then they tune out... I don't get it. I know so many people who just keep feeding it bc "Well I've never had any issues." I do feel bad for the owners' losses, and for the suffering animals. But at the same time I'm angry that we even have to deal with this, and that many are deaf to it bc it hasn't affected them. But I am sure that my ponies are safe and taken care of and that's all I can do.
You are so right, I have tried to tell people, and some actually listen. But most just stick their head in the sand... "well, I've never had any problem with it...." nope, until you do and then it's too late.... Also one I hear... "they look so much better when I feed Nutrena"... so to me that is just laziness. Why would you not try and get the best and safest feed for your horses??? |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | I have a serious question......how can they tell so soon that it was from tainted feed? Are there tests that they can perform immediately on the horse? Or are they "guessing"? I would "assume" that the feed would have to be tested ???? |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | NJJ - 2016-10-27 10:23 AM I have a serious question......how can they tell so soon that it was from tainted feed? Are there tests that they can perform immediately on the horse? Or are they "guessing"? I would "assume" that the feed would have to be tested ????
When my horses were posioned, we didn't get the bloodwork done, (we were out of town) only the samples of the feed showing the posion. Which to my vet and UFG explained the symptons that we had, that were presented by the vet on call.
Edited to say - in my case two other farms, one in SC and one in AL, had the same lot of feed, verififed through labels, and they did have the bloodwork done within the time frame and it showed the posioning.
Edited by 3canstorun 2016-10-27 9:30 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | https://m.facebook.com/nancy.devall/posts/pcb.1416520975032529/?phot...
tos%2Fviewer%2F%3Fphotoset_token%3Dpcb.1416520975032529%26photo%3D1416508775033749%26profileid%3D1468508432%26source%3D48%26refid%3D28%26_ft_%3Dqid.63
8508432%26source%3D48%26refid%3D28%26_ft_%3Dqid.6346149935287988422%253Amf_story_key.-6785661315048859690%26cached_data%3Dfalse%26ftid%3Du_e_1&mdf=1
59690%26cached_data%3Dfalse%26ftid%3Du_e_1&mdf=1
I'm sorry for her loss, but the feed company was not to blame if she's feeding what she's pictured here. Owners need to read the label and educate themselves! |
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| I'm so sorry to hear of this. Where do you find reliable info on if the feed manufacturer produces medicated feed at the same plant? Even if you go with a brand that only produced horse feed you would have to guarantee that they do not outsource the manufacturing at a different plant. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Yep they are to blame. That feed is supposed to be safe for horses, cattle, sheep, etc. Typically, it is not a quality feed since it is safe to feed to different species. That feed was not supposed to have the ionosphores in it. It is for all livestock, so that means ruminants and nonruminants. If the ionosphores are not in the ingredients, then it is not supposed to be in the feed. They either did a sloppy job of cleaning out or it was mistakenly added.
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 1D Lawn Mower
Posts: 1417
Location: Southeast, Texas |
Now... I don't agree here. Even if this is never something I would choose to feed in my barn, it IS advertised as safe for horses. So, yes.. The company is at fault if the accusation is proven. And, SC mare and foal? I HAVE used that, and it's being claimed as tainted as well. We currently feed Nutrena, and I'm quite concerned.
The description of Wrangler 12% Pellets: Wrangler 12 All Stock Pellet by Nutrena was developed with the entire barn in mind. Designed for all adult maintenance horses, and all classes of beef cattle, sheep and goats, it offers a great blend of value and versatility when combined with a hay or pasture feeding program. Also available as a sweet feed. |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton |
No - it is labeled for horses.
Use this livestock feed by WRANGLER™ to feed a wide variety of farm animals. This 12 pellet livestock feed is an added supplemental food for horses, goats, cattle and sheep that are pasture and hay feed. See packaging for specific feeding rates per livestock.
Specifications - WRANGLER™ 12 Pellet livestock feed
- Dietary supplement for horses, cattle, goats and sheep
- Feed as directed
- As with any new product, introduce slowly over 7 to 10 days
Nutrient Analysis - Crude protein: Min 12.0 percent
- Crude Fat: Min 2.5 percent
- Crude Fiber: Max 30.0 percent
- Calcium: Min 1.4 percent, Max 1.9 percent
- Phosphorus: Min 0.4 percent
- Salt: Min 1.0 percent, Max 1.5 percent
- Potassium: Min 0.6 percent
- Copper: Min 5 PPM, Max 15 PPM
- Zinc: Min 80 PPM
- Selenium: Min 0.1 PPM
- Vitamin A: Min 3,000 IU/lb.
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Miracle in the Making
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the feed says its safe key word safe for horses on the package |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | dashnlotti - 2016-10-27 8:56 AM
3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:19 AM
True Nate - that is why when a company who produces medicated feeds say their stuff is safe and never run on the same line, isn't' in the vacinity etc., etc., you should not believe them. Cross contamination happens. And animals die.
Exactly.
Anytime I have mentioned to people the reason I stopped feeding or won't feed certain brands, they stop listening. They don't want to hear it.
I did finally get my mom to switch hers from Nutrena. And if someone asks what she feed and asks why she swapped, shell tell them bc the feed wasn't safe. And then they tune out...
I don't get it.
I know so many people who just keep feeding it bc "Well I've never had any issues."
I do feel bad for the owners' losses, and for the suffering animals. But at the same time I'm angry that we even have to deal with this, and that many are deaf to it bc it hasn't affected them.
But I am sure that my ponies are safe and taken care of and that's all I can do.
This!!! This just baffles me to no end!
About 1-1.5 years ago a client I had just started training for switched her horse to ADM, 6 weeks later he died. When I found out I tried to talk to her about it (after giving her a couple of weeks of course). I told her everything I had learned about ADM and ionophores and that it wasn't safe to feed.
She asked me to send her some research, some articles to read about it. I did. She totally blew it off. She's still feeding ADM. Thinks the horse just died from colic.
I was sick about it! But everyone I talk to is the same way. Their mentality is that if thousands of horses a year are eating a brand of feed every single day and only a few die each year, then it must not be the feed company. But they just don't understand that way more are dying than just a few, they are just being misdiagnosed!
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | This is why I feed whole oats, I'm scared of commercial feeds!
I hope the other horse makes it, any updates? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I am afraid to feed whole oats in case they use them to clean out the system after making the medicated feeds.  |
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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know...
In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse.
The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period.
Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from?
Edited by RockinGR 2016-10-27 11:23 AM
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 pressure dripper
Posts: 8696
Location: the end of the rainbow | GLP - 2016-10-27 9:11 AM
I am afraid to feed whole oats in case they use them to clean out the system after making the medicated feeds.
This. I am unable to find oats locally that are clean (most of them are very dusty and the bags have bits and pieces of other feeds in them)and from an iontophoresis free mill so I won't chance it. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | GLP - 2016-10-27 11:11 AM I am afraid to feed whole oats in case they use them to clean out the system after making the medicated feeds.
I won't buy oats from the feed store anymore, but I can get them from the seed cleaner that are very clean and decent quality with no chance of contamination. They're not tagged as feed, they're bagged for food plots. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from?
The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | GLP - 2016-10-27 12:11 PM I am afraid to feed whole oats in case they use them to clean out the system after making the medicated feeds.
I get my oats from the farmer. Whom is my vet. |
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | BamaCanChaser - 2016-10-27 10:42 AM
dashnlotti - 2016-10-27 8:56 AM
3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:19 AM
True Nate - that is why when a company who produces medicated feeds say their stuff is safe and never run on the same line, isn't' in the vacinity etc., etc., you should not believe them. Cross contamination happens. And animals die.
Exactly.
Anytime I have mentioned to people the reason I stopped feeding or won't feed certain brands, they stop listening. They don't want to hear it.
I did finally get my mom to switch hers from Nutrena. And if someone asks what she feed and asks why she swapped, shell tell them bc the feed wasn't safe. And then they tune out...
I don't get it.
I know so many people who just keep feeding it bc "Well I've never had any issues."
I do feel bad for the owners' losses, and for the suffering animals. But at the same time I'm angry that we even have to deal with this, and that many are deaf to it bc it hasn't affected them.
But I am sure that my ponies are safe and taken care of and that's all I can do.
This!!! This just baffles me to no end!
About 1-1.5 years ago a client I had just started training for switched her horse to ADM, 6 weeks later he died. When I found out I tried to talk to her about it (after giving her a couple of weeks of course ). I told her everything I had learned about ADM and ionophores and that it wasn't safe to feed.
She asked me to send her some research, some articles to read about it. I did. She totally blew it off. She's still feeding ADM. Thinks the horse just died from colic.
I was sick about it! But everyone I talk to is the same way. Their mentality is that if thousands of horses a year are eating a brand of feed every single day and only a few die each year, then it must not be the feed company. But they just don't understand that way more are dying than just a few, they are just being misdiagnosed!
I don't get it either. I fed ADM for a long time and loved it and recommended it to so many people--until I found out what happened. I had just bought several bags and was really torn about what to do with them. I finally decided to just take them back to the feed store and switch to Renew Gold. Although I'm sure my horses would have been just fine, I wasn't willing to take any chances.
The argument that "my horses have been eating it for years with no problems" is NOT a valid reason, because those horses that died had been eating it for who knows how long with no issues. It just takes that one bag. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from?
The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination.
It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Please educate me- is it just the ionosphores that are harmful to the horses?
If not, what else should we be looking for?
What are the benefits to feeding cattle ionosphores?
We don't feed them to our cattle nor did we feed them to our show cattle.
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them.
Safety trumps convenience. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| We were sponsored by Nutrena years ago while racing. We ended up giving it up because the horses dropped off so bad and that was on the fancy new performance feed they had at the time. I am now making my own feed, bought a mixer and will buy a small pellet machine as well. My horses are looking great. I had an issue with toxic hay this spring so I can't take any chances with commercial feed at this point as they are still healing. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | GLP - 2016-10-27 11:53 AM Please educate me- is it just the ionosphores that are harmful to the horses? If not, what else should we be looking for? What are the benefits to feeding cattle ionosphores? We don't feed them to our cattle nor did we feed them to our show cattle.
They think ionophores change the microbial make up of the rumen to be more efficient, thus increase weight gain and/or reduce feed costs. That's the theory on why they work, but I don't think it's known for absolutely sure. And yes, there are other medications to be leery of, but I can't remember the names. One starts with an L. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them.
You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 12:06 PM
GLP - 2016-10-27 11:53 AM Please educate me- is it just the ionosphores that are harmful to the horses? If not, what else should we be looking for? What are the benefits to feeding cattle ionosphores? We don't feed them to our cattle nor did we feed them to our show cattle.
Thank you for the info, I will be researching this more this weekend. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
No, I never said anything about govt. involvement or regulations. FEED COMPANIES SHOULD DO THE RIGHT THING all on their own. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:14 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them.
You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
What do you do when they won't give you a straight up answer to the questions you ask? Several companies make you drag it out of them that yes, they do produce horse feed and medicated cattle feed at the same mill, if they admit it at all. That is just wrong. If they don't want more regulation, maybe they better be a little more forth coming with the information horse owners need to make informed decisions about what we are feeding our horses. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 12:17 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
There ARE companies that do it that way. You just have to find them. Not all companies will fit that ticket...some because they do not have to, some because they cannot afford to. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1161
Location: East Texas | 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:03 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:59 AM I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed? In your dreams - ADM didn't.
Nor did triple crown for my issue! I didnt loose my guy, but after two weeks at a equine hospital and almost loosing him several times.. they wouldnt do a thing.. I had all the proof and feed results to prove it. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Run n on faith - 2016-10-27 1:33 PM 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:03 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:59 AM I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed? In your dreams - ADM didn't.
They wouldn't do anything for mine. They blamed it on my water. Even though Louisville has notoriously the best water in the nation, and it was recently tested. |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 1:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
The direction any of them should go - the feed companies - is don't use monensin in the same plant. On the warning label for monensin it says it is unsafe for horses. It will kill them.
So when we get an answer back from feed companies that there is no FDA requirements or levels on this product, it is being irresponsible. The feed companies are to blame because they are using the FDA as a scape goat. And, killing horses. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 12:47 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 1:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
So when we get an answer back from feed companies that there is no FDA requirements or levels on this product, it is being irresponsible. The feed companies are to blame because they are using the FDA as a scape goat. And, killing horses.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone here. I'm simply stating what the regulations are and how things can get contaminated. I'm not defending the companies, just telling why things are the way that they are.
Personally, even with education and ability to formulate my own feeds... I buy all of my horse feed from a reputable company, that does have above industry standards and testing in place, and manufactured in a horse only facility. For all the reasons being stated here... |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| i would be buy oats |
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Regular
Posts: 57
| Have any of the companies involved had a lawsuit filed against them? Just wondering, seems like if just one of them lost a lawsuit it would make all of them take notice. I do agree if you just do not by the feed sales would be low and could even cause that product to be discontinued but that is a long shot. To many uneducated horse owners that just go to the local feed store and by the cheapest feed that they have on hand. Many of them probably do not know there is a probably with toxins being in the feed. |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| I am mixing my own I get my oats straight from the field into my own bulk bags, the rest of my ingredients are non gmo human grade food products, and alfalfa pellets milled in a safe mill. I also bought my own mixer and will have my own pellet machine next year so that my feed can be made completely on my place. It is undergoing a full analysis and will be bagged and labled for anyone else who Iam sharing with. I understand there are limitations to what we can do as far as safety of single ingredients but trying to do my best for my herd . |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | NJBBH - 2016-10-27 2:00 PM
Have any of the companies involved had a lawsuit filed against them? Just wondering, seems like if just one of them lost a lawsuit it would make all of them take notice. I do agree if you just do not by the feed sales would be low and could even cause that product to be discontinued but that is a long shot. To many uneducated horse owners that just go to the local feed store and by the cheapest feed that they have on hand. Many of them probably do not know there is a probably with toxins being in the feed.
I just went back and read the law suit against tribute because that's what I feed and they settled out court. The law suit and FDA found that they clearly lied in their claims and they never denied nor admitted it.
It's hard to know what to do when they are all feeding us lies.
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Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | SillyFilly55 - 2016-10-27 3:04 PM
Well, crap! I just got my horses changed over to Tribute. Guess I need to find another feed. My problem is being on N MS, a safe quality feed for performance horses is very limited.
Seminole Feed should be offered in your area and they are 100% ionophore free. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 533
Location: Mississippi | It's not. I've never seen it in any of the Feed stores around this area.e |
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| Did they do a necropsy to determine if that was the cause of death. |
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| READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:29 AM
Gunner11 - 2016-10-27 8:22 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:03 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:59 AM I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed? In your dreams - ADM didn't. They'll deny, deny, deny, just like ADM did. They'll find something else to place the blame on.
Of course not, probably political party at fault. But like Hilary said, what does it matter now. This makes me want to jump up and down and cuss and scream for the pain these horses and owners are going thru. . . . So so sorry |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:53 PM
3canstorun - 2016-10-27 12:47 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 1:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
So when we get an answer back from feed companies that there is no FDA requirements or levels on this product, it is being irresponsible. The feed companies are to blame because they are using the FDA as a scape goat. And, killing horses.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone here. I'm simply stating what the regulations are and how things can get contaminated. I'm not defending the companies, just telling why things are the way that they are.
Personally, even with education and ability to formulate my own feeds... I buy all of my horse feed from a reputable company, that does have above industry standards and testing in place, and manufactured in a horse only facility. For all the reasons being stated here...
What do you feed? You may have said and I missed it. . . . |
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 Expert
Posts: 2159
Location: NW. Florida | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 5:36 PM READ the simple information on the sack ... and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed .. After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse would buy this stuff ... Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole oats and alfalfa feeding program ... It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
BHUSA, I'm on the same program as you. My horses look better in the winter than most of theirs during the summer. I'll keep on using what works for me. |
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A Cool Sharp One
| has there been an autopsy done to confirm that it was feed toxicity? |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | I think everyone has choices of safe feed in their market area if they do a little homework. Ask the maker of your feed if there are any medicated ingredients on the mill property. That is about the best that you can do. As to the question of contaminated ingredients, that is a good reason not to feed mixes that include grain byproduct ingredients used in cattle feed. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| winwillows - 2016-10-28 10:26 AM
I think everyone has choices of safe feed in their market area if they do a little homework. Ask the maker of your feed if there are any medicated ingredients on the mill property. That is about the best that you can do. As to the question of contaminated ingredients, that is a good reason not to feed mixes that include grain byproduct ingredients used in cattle feed.
Unfortunately asking your local mill about medicated feeds isn't good enough. I called ours to ask about medicated feed and they bald faced lied to me. All I had to do was get on their website to look at their cattle feed ingredients. They made several medicated cattle feeds and some did list ionosphores in their label. The thing that ticks me off the most is that I knew they made medicated feed because we feed a feed to our show heifers that was medicated.  |
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 Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577
Location: Prosser, WA | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 3:36 PM
READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
I think you mainly get "trashed" as you said because you still recommend ADM feeds after their feed was contaminated and they lied about it. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| kakbarrelracer - 2016-10-28 11:07 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 3:36 PM
READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
I think you mainly get "trashed" as you said because you still recommend ADM feeds after their feed was contaminated and they lied about it.
You may get trashed for feeding corn because in high humidity myotoxins(?) have been found growing on corn. I don't remember in the articles I read if they said anything about how the corn was stored. This is a health hazard for horses. That is why many down in here in South Texas don't like feeding corn. |
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 Saint Stacey
| GLP - 2016-10-28 10:14 AM
kakbarrelracer - 2016-10-28 11:07 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 3:36 PM
READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
I think you mainly get "trashed" as you said because you still recommend ADM feeds after their feed was contaminated and they lied about it.
You may get trashed for feeding corn because in high humidity myotoxins (? ) have been found growing on corn. I don't remember in the articles I read if they said anything about how the corn was stored. This is a health hazard for horses. That is why many down in here in South Texas don't like feeding corn.
He also recommended feeding medicated chicken feed to a horse once. That's the only time I saw him get hung out to dry. I'd say that one was justified. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | winwillows - 2016-10-28 10:26 AM I think everyone has choices of safe feed in their market area if they do a little homework. Ask the maker of your feed if there are any medicated ingredients on the mill property. That is about the best that you can do. As to the question of contaminated ingredients, that is a good reason not to feed mixes that include grain byproduct ingredients used in cattle feed.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what would we look for on the tag? I thought I was safe with feeding Purina but apparently I need to do some more research. This is so stressful! |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| LindsayJordan84 - 2016-10-28 12:00 PM
winwillows - 2016-10-28 10:26 AM I think everyone has choices of safe feed in their market area if they do a little homework. Ask the maker of your feed if there are any medicated ingredients on the mill property. That is about the best that you can do. As to the question of contaminated ingredients, that is a good reason not to feed mixes that include grain byproduct ingredients used in cattle feed.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what would we look for on the tag? I thought I was safe with feeding Purina but apparently I need to do some more research. This is so stressful!
Primarily soybean hulls/hull pellets, dried distillers grains (ddgs), gluten/gluten meal/gluten pellets. Soybean meal or canola meal will be used in diary rations.
Buying our own bulk bin and buying oats direct from a farmer was the best move we've made I think.
Oats and free choice mineral and free choice hay fed in a chix net - all of ours look and feel great. I'm considering renew gold for 2 who may be a touch harder to keep (realistically they're probably normal keepers and our other 2 are fat air ferns).
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 5:36 PM
READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
Well you still feed ADM, so there's that... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: The South | OhMax - 2016-10-28 12:20 PM
LindsayJordan84 - 2016-10-28 12:00 PM
winwillows - 2016-10-28 10:26 AM I think everyone has choices of safe feed in their market area if they do a little homework. Ask the maker of your feed if there are any medicated ingredients on the mill property. That is about the best that you can do. As to the question of contaminated ingredients, that is a good reason not to feed mixes that include grain byproduct ingredients used in cattle feed.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what would we look for on the tag? I thought I was safe with feeding Purina but apparently I need to do some more research. This is so stressful!
Primarily soybean hulls/hull pellets, dried distillers grains (ddgs ), gluten/gluten meal/gluten pellets. Soybean meal or canola meal will be used in diary rations.
Buying our own bulk bin and buying oats direct from a farmer was the best move we've made I think.
Oats and free choice mineral and free choice hay fed in a chix net - all of ours look and feel great. I'm considering renew gold for 2 who may be a touch harder to keep (realistically they're probably normal keepers and our other 2 are fat air ferns ).
Thank you! I've switched to local whole oats and I'm thinking about stopping the Purina, it's just not worth the risk to me. Ours only get a small amount of it anyway except for my old gelding. I might look into Renew Gold for him, thanks for the suggestion. Our mares are 'fat air ferns' as well haha! |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | My post was not to move this to a RG thread. There are regional mills that do a great job. I might not agree with all their formulations, but I don't question the cleanliness. Buckeye in the North East, Bluebonnet in OK. Associated Feed and Bar Ale in California. Others are clean, I am sure. It's sad that we can't trust some of these mills to tell us the truth.
Edited by winwillows 2016-10-28 1:10 PM
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| SKM - 2016-10-28 11:31 AM
GLP - 2016-10-28 10:14 AM
kakbarrelracer - 2016-10-28 11:07 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 3:36 PM
READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
I think you mainly get "trashed" as you said because you still recommend ADM feeds after their feed was contaminated and they lied about it.
You may get trashed for feeding corn because in high humidity myotoxins (? ) have been found growing on corn. I don't remember in the articles I read if they said anything about how the corn was stored. This is a health hazard for horses. That is why many down in here in South Texas don't like feeding corn.
He also recommended feeding medicated chicken feed to a horse once. That's the only time I saw him get hung out to dry. I'd say that one was justified.
AHHHHH THE WALKING DEAD ARE SHOWING UP ..
Most of you are so young you have no history of actually doctoring your
horses without phoning for help since dog and cat vets are a dime
a dozen theses days.
The rest of you just love to argue with no solution other than calling
names or dissing a simple remedy that has been proven to work
way before you were a sparkle in your Daddy's eye ... lol
Sometimes I feel like Trump is my middle name on having to clarify
exactly what was said rather than let those with lack of memory
attempt to repeat something out of context ... while you get ripped
off by companies marketing worthless crap and taking your hard
earned money to the bank.
Most of you have no idea who Moorman Feeds were and no inclination
to find out that ADM purchased them several years ago and their mineral
production is not associated with any of their pelletized feed mills ...
Moorman feeds was one of the most respected mills in the country and
if you had show animals and wanted to win .. Moorman feed was your
way to a blue ribbon ..
Politicians love the short memory span of American voters ... day by day
or week by week they lead the American public on a trail that leads to
disaster due to Americans short memory span ..
Let's do a refresher course and a couple of links for those that can still
read without clicking on an app ...
ADM GROSTRONG MINERALS ... LOOSE FORM ... NOT PELLETED
has a special procedure to chelate their minerals and the correct amount
of certain catalytic vitamins to allow the horse to absorb the minerals
into their digestive system and into their entire body.
THIS IS WHAT I MIX IN MY WHOLE OATS, ALFALFA AND HIGH QUALITY
HAY FEEDING PROGRAM .... BY THE HANDFUL EVERY OTHER DAY ..
and also PROVIDE FREE CHOICE ...
The 30% salt content keeps a horse from over ingesting while providing
electrolytes to his well being ..
ARE YOU READY ??
http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind...
I'LL DOUBLE LINK FOR THOSE WITH ARTHERITIS OF THE MIND ..
http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind... ... lol
FYI: Long before most of you became horse food junkies the only source
you could find bagged alfalfa pellets was RABBIT PELLETS ... many of the
world rodeo champions carried bags of rabbit pellets as their sole source
of hay from rodeo to rodeo to keep their horses heathy and not cross
contaminating them with lots of lousy hay they might accidently buy
from rodeo to rodeo ..
AUREOMYCIN
Like any other anti biotic works well on certain bacterial infections ..
and due to higher profits from other forms has been taken off the
list by most vets ... because it works!!
Again, long ago the only way you could buy it was in medicated chicken
feed ... which we all did if we had horses or mules with wheezing or
dry coughing that would not go away.
Today you can buy it in bags by its self ..
vets are leaning on FDA to restrict to their prescription list so they can
make more money ...
HAVE FUN .. READING THIS ITEM FOR CHICKENS, SHEEP, GOATS AND COWS
LOL
http://livestockconcepts.com/en/cattle/7228-mannapro-aureomycin-cru...
Let's see pictures of your horses and I will show you pictures of mine in comparison to my simple feeding program ..
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-28 2:24 PM
SKM - 2016-10-28 11:31 AM
GLP - 2016-10-28 10:14 AM
kakbarrelracer - 2016-10-28 11:07 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 3:36 PM
READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
I think you mainly get "trashed" as you said because you still recommend ADM feeds after their feed was contaminated and they lied about it.
You may get trashed for feeding corn because in high humidity myotoxins (? ) have been found growing on corn. I don't remember in the articles I read if they said anything about how the corn was stored. This is a health hazard for horses. That is why many down in here in South Texas don't like feeding corn.
He also recommended feeding medicated chicken feed to a horse once. That's the only time I saw him get hung out to dry. I'd say that one was justified.
AHHHHH THE WALKING DEAD ARE SHOWING UP ..
Most of you are so young you have no history of actually doctoring your
horses without phoning for help since dog and cat vets are a dime
a dozen theses days.
The rest of you just love to argue with no solution other than calling
names or dissing a simple remedy that has been proven to work
way before you were a sparkle in your Daddy's eye ... lol
Sometimes I feel like Trump is my middle name on having to clarify
exactly what was said rather than let those with lack of memory
attempt to repeat something out of context ... while you get ripped
off by companies marketing worthless crap and taking your hard
earned money to the bank.
Most of you have no idea who Moorman Feeds were and no inclination
to find out that ADM purchased them several years ago and their mineral
production is not associated with any of their pelletized feed mills ...
Moorman feeds was one of the most respected mills in the country and
if you had show animals and wanted to win .. Moorman feed was your
way to a blue ribbon ..
Politicians love the short memory span of American voters ... day by day
or week by week they lead the American public on a trail that leads to
disaster due to Americans short memory span ..
Let's do a refresher course and a couple of links for those that can still
read without clicking on an app ...
ADM GROSTRONG MINERALS ... LOOSE FORM ... NOT PELLETED
has a special procedure to chelate their minerals and the correct amount
of certain catalytic vitamins to allow the horse to absorb the minerals
into their digestive system and into their entire body.
THIS IS WHAT I MIX IN MY WHOLE OATS, ALFALFA AND HIGH QUALITY
HAY FEEDING PROGRAM .... BY THE HANDFUL EVERY OTHER DAY ..
and also PROVIDE FREE CHOICE ...
The 30% salt content keeps a horse from over ingesting while providing
electrolytes to his well being ..
ARE YOU READY ??
http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind...
I'LL DOUBLE LINK FOR THOSE WITH ARTHERITIS OF THE MIND ..
http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind... ... lol
FYI: Long before most of you became horse food junkies the only source
you could find bagged alfalfa pellets was RABBIT PELLETS ... many of the
world rodeo champions carried bags of rabbit pellets as their sole source
of hay from rodeo to rodeo to keep their horses heathy and not cross
contaminating them with lots of lousy hay they might accidently buy
from rodeo to rodeo ..
AUREOMYCIN
Like any other anti biotic works well on certain bacterial infections ..
and due to higher profits from other forms has been taken off the
list by most vets ... because it works!!
Again, long ago the only way you could buy it was in medicated chicken
feed ... which we all did if we had horses or mules with wheezing or
dry coughing that would not go away.
Today you can buy it in bags by its self ..
vets are leaning on FDA to restrict to their prescription list so they can
make more money ...
HAVE FUN .. READING THIS ITEM FOR CHICKENS, SHEEP, GOATS AND COWS
LOL
http://livestockconcepts.com/en/cattle/7228-mannapro-aureomycin-cru...
Let's see pictures of your horses and I will show you pictures of mine in comparison to my simple feeding program ..
Well, I'm not young and me and mine have been in a the ranching and farming business since they came over on the ships back on the early 1800's. I wasn't attacking you just giving an explanation for why some of disagree with feeding corn. We all are just trying to do the best we can for our horses. It would a really sad and boring world if we all did and said the same thing.  |
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Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577
Location: Prosser, WA | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-28 12:24 PM
SKM - 2016-10-28 11:31 AM
GLP - 2016-10-28 10:14 AM
kakbarrelracer - 2016-10-28 11:07 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 3:36 PM
READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
I think you mainly get "trashed" as you said because you still recommend ADM feeds after their feed was contaminated and they lied about it.
You may get trashed for feeding corn because in high humidity myotoxins (? ) have been found growing on corn. I don't remember in the articles I read if they said anything about how the corn was stored. This is a health hazard for horses. That is why many down in here in South Texas don't like feeding corn.
He also recommended feeding medicated chicken feed to a horse once. That's the only time I saw him get hung out to dry. I'd say that one was justified.
AHHHHH THE WALKING DEAD ARE SHOWING UP ..
Most of you are so young you have no history of actually doctoring your
horses without phoning for help since dog and cat vets are a dime
a dozen theses days.
The rest of you just love to argue with no solution other than calling
names or dissing a simple remedy that has been proven to work
way before you were a sparkle in your Daddy's eye ... lol
Sometimes I feel like Trump is my middle name on having to clarify
exactly what was said rather than let those with lack of memory
attempt to repeat something out of context ... while you get ripped
off by companies marketing worthless crap and taking your hard
earned money to the bank.
Most of you have no idea who Moorman Feeds were and no inclination
to find out that ADM purchased them several years ago and their mineral
production is not associated with any of their pelletized feed mills ...
Moorman feeds was one of the most respected mills in the country and
if you had show animals and wanted to win .. Moorman feed was your
way to a blue ribbon ..
Politicians love the short memory span of American voters ... day by day
or week by week they lead the American public on a trail that leads to
disaster due to Americans short memory span ..
Let's do a refresher course and a couple of links for those that can still
read without clicking on an app ...
ADM GROSTRONG MINERALS ... LOOSE FORM ... NOT PELLETED
has a special procedure to chelate their minerals and the correct amount
of certain catalytic vitamins to allow the horse to absorb the minerals
into their digestive system and into their entire body.
THIS IS WHAT I MIX IN MY WHOLE OATS, ALFALFA AND HIGH QUALITY
HAY FEEDING PROGRAM .... BY THE HANDFUL EVERY OTHER DAY ..
and also PROVIDE FREE CHOICE ...
The 30% salt content keeps a horse from over ingesting while providing
electrolytes to his well being ..
ARE YOU READY ??
http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind...
I'LL DOUBLE LINK FOR THOSE WITH ARTHERITIS OF THE MIND ..
http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind... ... lol
FYI: Long before most of you became horse food junkies the only source
you could find bagged alfalfa pellets was RABBIT PELLETS ... many of the
world rodeo champions carried bags of rabbit pellets as their sole source
of hay from rodeo to rodeo to keep their horses heathy and not cross
contaminating them with lots of lousy hay they might accidently buy
from rodeo to rodeo ..
AUREOMYCIN
Like any other anti biotic works well on certain bacterial infections ..
and due to higher profits from other forms has been taken off the
list by most vets ... because it works!!
Again, long ago the only way you could buy it was in medicated chicken
feed ... which we all did if we had horses or mules with wheezing or
dry coughing that would not go away.
Today you can buy it in bags by its self ..
vets are leaning on FDA to restrict to their prescription list so they can
make more money ...
HAVE FUN .. READING THIS ITEM FOR CHICKENS, SHEEP, GOATS AND COWS
LOL
http://livestockconcepts.com/en/cattle/7228-mannapro-aureomycin-cru...
Let's see pictures of your horses and I will show you pictures of mine in comparison to my simple feeding program ..
Nice try. LOL. We fed Moorman's for many years to our cattle. I just don't want to support a company that openly lies to it's customers. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 612
| We need to ask our Purina Rep's, but Purina has always said that they mix their Omolene and other horse specific feeds in a separate location specifically so that they do not have any contamination issues. |
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | JAG18 - 2016-10-28 3:27 PM We need to ask our Purina Rep's, but Purina has always said that they mix their Omolene and other horse specific feeds in a separate location specifically so that they do not have any contamination issues.
st. joe is 100% ionophore free. I called a couple months ago. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | brlracerchick - 2016-10-28 3:32 PM
JAG18 - 2016-10-28 3:27 PM We need to ask our Purina Rep's, but Purina has always said that they mix their Omolene and other horse specific feeds in a separate location specifically so that they do not have any contamination issues.
st. joe is 100% ionophore free. I called a couple months ago.
All of their horse specific products are produced at horse only facilities. All are 100% ionophor free. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Chandler's Mom - 2016-10-27 9:58 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:53 PM
3canstorun - 2016-10-27 12:47 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 1:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
So when we get an answer back from feed companies that there is no FDA requirements or levels on this product, it is being irresponsible. The feed companies are to blame because they are using the FDA as a scape goat. And, killing horses.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone here. I'm simply stating what the regulations are and how things can get contaminated. I'm not defending the companies, just telling why things are the way that they are.
Personally, even with education and ability to formulate my own feeds... I buy all of my horse feed from a reputable company, that does have above industry standards and testing in place, and manufactured in a horse only facility. For all the reasons being stated here...
What do you feed? You may have said and I missed it. . . .
I was asked this in a private message, so I'm copying most of my answer to here...
I am mostly a Purina program, and I also feed a little Renew Gold and Standlee Alfalfa pellets. I used to sell Purina, and had the opportunity a couple of times to go tour their facilities and even got to observe some feed and palatability trials at the research facility. My husband and I are both AnSci and nutritionists--we both have worked for small private mills as nutritionists and formulators, and the protocols Purina uses are second to none, and miles above USDA regulations. My vet has a Masters in Equine Nutrition (in addition to her DVM and a couple other degrees) and uses Purina programs as well, for the same reasons I do.
They are a 100% horse only facility, and they do a battalion of tests throughout the entire process. Ingredients are all tested on the trucks before they are allowed to unload. And tested repeatedly throughout the manufacturing process for a multitude of things. Testing is done by PhD's and their staff with food grade equipment (not the standard milling equipment).
I often hear mis-informed people bash them about having a "secret" formulation and that it is not a locked formula. This is true, but it doesn't make it bad. Their formulas are all copyright protected and to put them out to the public would be a terrible business decision. Companies, such as Nutrena, are already constantly trying to copy their products, why would they give them the recipe? And, no, they are not a locked formula because it's a fact that ingredients vary in their analysis. They are allowed "wiggle room" in their formulations to make sure that they meet the tag (which is law, enforced by the USDA through random inspection/bag probes). The actual formulations vary VERY little, but allows them to adjust the formula--say adding additional protein to raise a lowered protein of drought stressed oats, for example. Or to add additional mineral for other deficient ingredients.
No company will ever be free of claims of tainted feed, Purina included. Purina does have the lowest percentage of incidents in the industry due to their standards. But the reason that feed companies do not step up and say it was their feed, here's the money for your horse...is because it would open them up to unlimited liability that is potentially misplaced. Often times tainted feed actually happens due to poor handling by either transport companies or the actual retailer. There are regulations that state there are supposed to be physical barriers or 25ft distance between all horse feed products and any and all medicated feeds. There is also supposed to be a physical barrier or 25ft distance between dog/cat food and cattle/pig feed. All to prevent cross contamination. Very few facilities can physically do that-and as a result, often times single ingredients--bagged oats, corn, etc.--are used that physical barrier, opening those products up to contamination. Most get a weekly route truck from their prospective suppliers that includes all classes of feeds. Or, many retailers get caught up in trying to buy more product than they can rotate because of "truck load discounts" or similar. Then they don't rotate properly, it gets left in a hot, humid warehouse ("but it stayed dry") and the feeds can get rancid or moldy before it gets to the end customer. That's why they insist on doing testing before they just jump up and "pay for someone's horse" like everyone is all up in arms about.
I do believe that it's a real possibility that Nutrena is facing a contamination issue in this instance, but I'll wait until the testing is done. They have had problems in the past and they do not self impose the same regulations that Purina does. They also do not employ the same number of veterinarians and PhD researchers that Purina does. They do not conduct the same level of research--but are notorious for trying to piggy back onto Purina research and sell it off as their own. They and a few other companies have been in hot water for doing so.
There are a number of other companies aside from Purina that self impose higher standards. My suggestion to those asking is to do your research and find out who those companies are, and patronize them. Money talks...
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-28 2:24 PM SKM - 2016-10-28 11:31 AM GLP - 2016-10-28 10:14 AM kakbarrelracer - 2016-10-28 11:07 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 3:36 PM READ the simple information on the sack ... and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed .. After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse would buy this stuff ... Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole oats and alfalfa feeding program ... It is a sad situation is all I can say .. I think you mainly get "trashed" as you said because you still recommend ADM feeds after their feed was contaminated and they lied about it. You may get trashed for feeding corn because in high humidity myotoxins (? ) have been found growing on corn. I don't remember in the articles I read if they said anything about how the corn was stored. This is a health hazard for horses. That is why many down in here in South Texas don't like feeding corn. He also recommended feeding medicated chicken feed to a horse once. That's the only time I saw him get hung out to dry. I'd say that one was justified. AHHHHH THE WALKING DEAD ARE SHOWING UP .. Most of you are so young you have no history of actually doctoring your horses without phoning for help since dog and cat vets are a dime a dozen theses days. The rest of you just love to argue with no solution other than calling names or dissing a simple remedy that has been proven to work way before you were a sparkle in your Daddy's eye ... lol Sometimes I feel like Trump is my middle name on having to clarify exactly what was said rather than let those with lack of memory attempt to repeat something out of context ... while you get ripped off by companies marketing worthless crap and taking your hard earned money to the bank. Most of you have no idea who Moorman Feeds were and no inclination to find out that ADM purchased them several years ago and their mineral production is not associated with any of their pelletized feed mills ... Moorman feeds was one of the most respected mills in the country and if you had show animals and wanted to win .. Moorman feed was your way to a blue ribbon .. Politicians love the short memory span of American voters ... day by day or week by week they lead the American public on a trail that leads to disaster due to Americans short memory span .. Let's do a refresher course and a couple of links for those that can still read without clicking on an app ... ADM GROSTRONG MINERALS ... LOOSE FORM ... NOT PELLETED has a special procedure to chelate their minerals and the correct amount of certain catalytic vitamins to allow the horse to absorb the minerals into their digestive system and into their entire body. THIS IS WHAT I MIX IN MY WHOLE OATS, ALFALFA AND HIGH QUALITY HAY FEEDING PROGRAM .... BY THE HANDFUL EVERY OTHER DAY .. and also PROVIDE FREE CHOICE ... The 30% salt content keeps a horse from over ingesting while providing electrolytes to his well being .. ARE YOU READY ?? http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind... I'LL DOUBLE LINK FOR THOSE WITH ARTHERITIS OF THE MIND .. http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind... ... lol FYI: Long before most of you became horse food junkies the only source you could find bagged alfalfa pellets was RABBIT PELLETS ... many of the world rodeo champions carried bags of rabbit pellets as their sole source of hay from rodeo to rodeo to keep their horses heathy and not cross contaminating them with lots of lousy hay they might accidently buy from rodeo to rodeo .. AUREOMYCIN Like any other anti biotic works well on certain bacterial infections .. and due to higher profits from other forms has been taken off the list by most vets ... because it works!! Again, long ago the only way you could buy it was in medicated chicken feed ... which we all did if we had horses or mules with wheezing or dry coughing that would not go away. Today you can buy it in bags by its self .. vets are leaning on FDA to restrict to their prescription list so they can make more money ... HAVE FUN .. READING THIS ITEM FOR CHICKENS, SHEEP, GOATS AND COWS LOL http://livestockconcepts.com/en/cattle/7228-mannapro-aureomycin-cru... Let's see pictures of your horses and I will show you pictures of mine in comparison to my simple feeding program ..
I love The Walking Dead, LOL...
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-28 2:24 PM
SKM - 2016-10-28 11:31 AM
GLP - 2016-10-28 10:14 AM
kakbarrelracer - 2016-10-28 11:07 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 3:36 PM
READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
I think you mainly get "trashed" as you said because you still recommend ADM feeds after their feed was contaminated and they lied about it.
You may get trashed for feeding corn because in high humidity myotoxins (? ) have been found growing on corn. I don't remember in the articles I read if they said anything about how the corn was stored. This is a health hazard for horses. That is why many down in here in South Texas don't like feeding corn.
He also recommended feeding medicated chicken feed to a horse once. That's the only time I saw him get hung out to dry. I'd say that one was justified.
AHHHHH THE WALKING DEAD ARE SHOWING UP ..
Most of you are so young you have no history of actually doctoring your
horses without phoning for help since dog and cat vets are a dime
a dozen theses days.
The rest of you just love to argue with no solution other than calling
names or dissing a simple remedy that has been proven to work
way before you were a sparkle in your Daddy's eye ... lol
Sometimes I feel like Trump is my middle name on having to clarify
exactly what was said rather than let those with lack of memory
attempt to repeat something out of context ... while you get ripped
off by companies marketing worthless crap and taking your hard
earned money to the bank.
Most of you have no idea who Moorman Feeds were and no inclination
to find out that ADM purchased them several years ago and their mineral
production is not associated with any of their pelletized feed mills ...
Moorman feeds was one of the most respected mills in the country and
if you had show animals and wanted to win .. Moorman feed was your
way to a blue ribbon ..
Politicians love the short memory span of American voters ... day by day
or week by week they lead the American public on a trail that leads to
disaster due to Americans short memory span ..
Let's do a refresher course and a couple of links for those that can still
read without clicking on an app ...
ADM GROSTRONG MINERALS ... LOOSE FORM ... NOT PELLETED
has a special procedure to chelate their minerals and the correct amount
of certain catalytic vitamins to allow the horse to absorb the minerals
into their digestive system and into their entire body.
THIS IS WHAT I MIX IN MY WHOLE OATS, ALFALFA AND HIGH QUALITY
HAY FEEDING PROGRAM .... BY THE HANDFUL EVERY OTHER DAY ..
and also PROVIDE FREE CHOICE ...
The 30% salt content keeps a horse from over ingesting while providing
electrolytes to his well being ..
ARE YOU READY ??
http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind...
I'LL DOUBLE LINK FOR THOSE WITH ARTHERITIS OF THE MIND ..
http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind... ... lol
FYI: Long before most of you became horse food junkies the only source
you could find bagged alfalfa pellets was RABBIT PELLETS ... many of the
world rodeo champions carried bags of rabbit pellets as their sole source
of hay from rodeo to rodeo to keep their horses heathy and not cross
contaminating them with lots of lousy hay they might accidently buy
from rodeo to rodeo ..
AUREOMYCIN
Like any other anti biotic works well on certain bacterial infections ..
and due to higher profits from other forms has been taken off the
list by most vets ... because it works!!
Again, long ago the only way you could buy it was in medicated chicken
feed ... which we all did if we had horses or mules with wheezing or
dry coughing that would not go away.
Today you can buy it in bags by its self ..
vets are leaning on FDA to restrict to their prescription list so they can
make more money ...
HAVE FUN .. READING THIS ITEM FOR CHICKENS, SHEEP, GOATS AND COWS
LOL
http://livestockconcepts.com/en/cattle/7228-mannapro-aureomycin-cru...
Let's see pictures of your horses and I will show you pictures of mine in comparison to my simple feeding program ..
Actually, ADM purchased Moormans almost 20 years ago. They really did not care about the feed division, they wanted a Moorman's asset, Quincy Soy Bean. They lumped the Moorman's business in with others that they already owned. That is where "Patriot" came in. In the 1990's I rewrote the formulation for Gro Strong minerals, still the same. I have not been to the Quincy IL mill for a while, but the last time I was, they did make mineral and feed in the same facility. I do not know if they make any medicated feed in the Quincy mill. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | winwillows - 2016-10-28 4:17 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-28 2:24 PM SKM - 2016-10-28 11:31 AM GLP - 2016-10-28 10:14 AM kakbarrelracer - 2016-10-28 11:07 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 3:36 PM READ the simple information on the sack ... and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed .. After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse would buy this stuff ... Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole oats and alfalfa feeding program ... It is a sad situation is all I can say .. I think you mainly get "trashed" as you said because you still recommend ADM feeds after their feed was contaminated and they lied about it. You may get trashed for feeding corn because in high humidity myotoxins (? ) have been found growing on corn. I don't remember in the articles I read if they said anything about how the corn was stored. This is a health hazard for horses. That is why many down in here in South Texas don't like feeding corn. He also recommended feeding medicated chicken feed to a horse once. That's the only time I saw him get hung out to dry. I'd say that one was justified. AHHHHH THE WALKING DEAD ARE SHOWING UP .. Most of you are so young you have no history of actually doctoring your horses without phoning for help since dog and cat vets are a dime a dozen theses days. The rest of you just love to argue with no solution other than calling names or dissing a simple remedy that has been proven to work way before you were a sparkle in your Daddy's eye ... lol Sometimes I feel like Trump is my middle name on having to clarify exactly what was said rather than let those with lack of memory attempt to repeat something out of context ... while you get ripped off by companies marketing worthless crap and taking your hard earned money to the bank. Most of you have no idea who Moorman Feeds were and no inclination to find out that ADM purchased them several years ago and their mineral production is not associated with any of their pelletized feed mills ... Moorman feeds was one of the most respected mills in the country and if you had show animals and wanted to win .. Moorman feed was your way to a blue ribbon .. Politicians love the short memory span of American voters ... day by day or week by week they lead the American public on a trail that leads to disaster due to Americans short memory span .. Let's do a refresher course and a couple of links for those that can still read without clicking on an app ... ADM GROSTRONG MINERALS ... LOOSE FORM ... NOT PELLETED has a special procedure to chelate their minerals and the correct amount of certain catalytic vitamins to allow the horse to absorb the minerals into their digestive system and into their entire body. THIS IS WHAT I MIX IN MY WHOLE OATS, ALFALFA AND HIGH QUALITY HAY FEEDING PROGRAM .... BY THE HANDFUL EVERY OTHER DAY .. and also PROVIDE FREE CHOICE ... The 30% salt content keeps a horse from over ingesting while providing electrolytes to his well being .. ARE YOU READY ?? http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind... I'LL DOUBLE LINK FOR THOSE WITH ARTHERITIS OF THE MIND .. http://www.admani.com/horse/Horse%20Vitamins%20and%20Minerals%20Ind... ... lol FYI: Long before most of you became horse food junkies the only source you could find bagged alfalfa pellets was RABBIT PELLETS ... many of the world rodeo champions carried bags of rabbit pellets as their sole source of hay from rodeo to rodeo to keep their horses heathy and not cross contaminating them with lots of lousy hay they might accidently buy from rodeo to rodeo .. AUREOMYCIN Like any other anti biotic works well on certain bacterial infections .. and due to higher profits from other forms has been taken off the list by most vets ... because it works!! Again, long ago the only way you could buy it was in medicated chicken feed ... which we all did if we had horses or mules with wheezing or dry coughing that would not go away. Today you can buy it in bags by its self .. vets are leaning on FDA to restrict to their prescription list so they can make more money ... HAVE FUN .. READING THIS ITEM FOR CHICKENS, SHEEP, GOATS AND COWS LOL http://livestockconcepts.com/en/cattle/7228-mannapro-aureomycin-cru... Let's see pictures of your horses and I will show you pictures of mine in comparison to my simple feeding program .. Actually, ADM purchased Moormans almost 20 years ago. They really did not care about the feed division, they wanted a Moorman's asset, Quincy Soy Bean. They lumped the Moorman's business in with others that they already owned. That is where "Patriot" came in. In the 1990's I rewrote the formulation for Gro Strong minerals, still the same. I have not been to the Quincy IL mill for a while, but the last time I was, they did make mineral and feed in the same facility. I do not know if they make any medicated feed in the Quincy mill.
I was told that Quincy makes the entire Glo line and that it's a clean mill. The Patriot line is the one that has been contaminated and is still at risk of contamination. Regardless, I will no longer feed their products because of the sorryass way they refused to handle the contamination issue last year. ADM is so big, they probably wouldn't really care if the whole horse division shut down, much less that a few of us have boycotted, but all I can do is "vote" with my pocketbook. |
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Official Butt Slapper
Posts: 11055
Location: guthrie | I have not read the entire thread but apparently it may not have been the feed. In watching video m(as horrific as it was) it looks more like WNV.Be curious as to what autopsy shows. |
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Official Butt Slapper
Posts: 11055
Location: guthrie | http://m.nutrenaworld.com/news-events/2016/index.htm
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | RockinGR - 2016-10-28 3:55 PM
Chandler's Mom - 2016-10-27 9:58 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:53 PM
3canstorun - 2016-10-27 12:47 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 1:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
So when we get an answer back from feed companies that there is no FDA requirements or levels on this product, it is being irresponsible. The feed companies are to blame because they are using the FDA as a scape goat. And, killing horses.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone here. I'm simply stating what the regulations are and how things can get contaminated. I'm not defending the companies, just telling why things are the way that they are.
Personally, even with education and ability to formulate my own feeds... I buy all of my horse feed from a reputable company, that does have above industry standards and testing in place, and manufactured in a horse only facility. For all the reasons being stated here...
What do you feed? You may have said and I missed it. . . .
I was asked this in a private message, so I'm copying most of my answer to here...
I am mostly a Purina program, and I also feed a little Renew Gold and Standlee Alfalfa pellets. I used to sell Purina, and had the opportunity a couple of times to go tour their facilities and even got to observe some feed and palatability trials at the research facility. My husband and I are both AnSci and nutritionists--we both have worked for small private mills as nutritionists and formulators, and the protocols Purina uses are second to none, and miles above USDA regulations. My vet has a Masters in Equine Nutrition (in addition to her DVM and a couple other degrees ) and uses Purina programs as well, for the same reasons I do.
They are a 100% horse only facility, and they do a battalion of tests throughout the entire process. Ingredients are all tested on the trucks before they are allowed to unload. And tested repeatedly throughout the manufacturing process for a multitude of things. Testing is done by PhD's and their staff with food grade equipment (not the standard milling equipment ).
I often hear mis-informed people bash them about having a "secret" formulation and that it is not a locked formula. This is true, but it doesn't make it bad. Their formulas are all copyright protected and to put them out to the public would be a terrible business decision. Companies, such as Nutrena, are already constantly trying to copy their products, why would they give them the recipe? And, no, they are not a locked formula because it's a fact that ingredients vary in their analysis. They are allowed "wiggle room" in their formulations to make sure that they meet the tag (which is law, enforced by the USDA through random inspection/bag probes ). The actual formulations vary VERY little, but allows them to adjust the formula--say adding additional protein to raise a lowered protein of drought stressed oats, for example. Or to add additional mineral for other deficient ingredients.
No company will ever be free of claims of tainted feed, Purina included. Purina does have the lowest percentage of incidents in the industry due to their standards. But the reason that feed companies do not step up and say it was their feed, here's the money for your horse...is because it would open them up to unlimited liability that is potentially misplaced. Often times tainted feed actually happens due to poor handling by either transport companies or the actual retailer. There are regulations that state there are supposed to be physical barriers or 25ft distance between all horse feed products and any and all medicated feeds. There is also supposed to be a physical barrier or 25ft distance between dog/cat food and cattle/pig feed. All to prevent cross contamination. Very few facilities can physically do that-and as a result, often times single ingredients--bagged oats, corn, etc.--are used that physical barrier, opening those products up to contamination. Most get a weekly route truck from their prospective suppliers that includes all classes of feeds. Or, many retailers get caught up in trying to buy more product than they can rotate because of "truck load discounts" or similar. Then they don't rotate properly, it gets left in a hot, humid warehouse ("but it stayed dry" ) and the feeds can get rancid or moldy before it gets to the end customer. That's why they insist on doing testing before they just jump up and "pay for someone's horse" like everyone is all up in arms about.
I do believe that it's a real possibility that Nutrena is facing a contamination issue in this instance, but I'll wait until the testing is done. They have had problems in the past and they do not self impose the same regulations that Purina does. They also do not employ the same number of veterinarians and PhD researchers that Purina does. They do not conduct the same level of research--but are notorious for trying to piggy back onto Purina research and sell it off as their own. They and a few other companies have been in hot water for doing so.
There are a number of other companies aside from Purina that self impose higher standards. My suggestion to those asking is to do your research and find out who those companies are, and patronize them. Money talks...
I've researched and done all I feel i can to feed what I think is best for my kids---Purina SR Active for my two older boys and Strategy Healthy Edge for the younger three. I wish there was a magic ball to see exactly what I should feed and how much, but since there's not, I'm doing what I feel is right. When this stuff happens it sickens me; my goodness we should be able to believe and trust our feed companies. Beet pulp, Platinum CJ, and rice bran are part of my routine also. I pray for these poor owners and their horses for whatever reason this happened, and I also pray I'm doing right by my five. . . . |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | streaknpete - 2016-10-28 8:40 PM I have not read the entire thread but apparently it may not have been the feed. In watching video m(as horrific as it was) it looks more like WNV.Be curious as to what autopsy shows.
When my horses first got sick Savvy's mare Santana was misdiagnosed with WNV. She was neurological, had muscle tremors, etc. Mine most definitely was the feed. |
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I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3310
Location: Jersey Girl | I have read most of this thread....my question is how do we know the companies that are claiming to not mill horse feed at the same plant as cattle feed are ACTUALLY doing so? If they can lie about contamination they could lie about milling practices as well. Who do you decide on who you can and can't trust??
Edited by fulltiltfilly 2016-10-29 5:42 AM
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| Putting rejected trash from human food and ethanol processing is catching up
the milling companies which include soy bean and rice hulls and beet pulp.
AND let's add GMO feeds and hay products ... 3/4 of the world's countries have
outlawed the use of these contaminated genes to be shipped to or grown in their countries and most realize the kill off of bees will be a quick route to world starvation ...... while the USA crooks just keep on pushing all of this crap for huge profits and political donations ..
I don't think anyone read the statement on this bag of feed below the picture ..
DESIGNED TO BE FED TO A WIDE RANGE OF FARM ANIMALS ...
Next thing we will see is big tub of Ramen Noodles with a picture of a horse on them ..
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2016-10-29 11:05 AM
 (WRANGLER FEED 150.jpg)
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-29 10:59 AM
Putting rejected trash from human food and ethanol processing is catching up
the milling companies which include soy bean and rice hulls and beet pulp.
AND let's add GMO feeds and hay products ... 3/4 of the world's countries have
outlawed the use of these contaminated genes to be shipped to or grown in their countries and most realize the kill off of bees will be a quick route to world starvation ...... while the USA crooks just keep on pushing all of this crap for huge profits and political donations ..
I don't think anyone read the statement on this bag of feed below the picture ..
DESIGNED TO BE FED TO A WIDE RANGE OF FARM ANIMALS ...
Next thing we will see is big tub of Ramen Noodles with a picture of a horse on them ..
On this I agree with you. I wouldn't feed this feed, but that still doesn't excuse the contamination if that is indeed proved. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-29 11:48 AM Wranger feed is the bottom of the barrel that Nutrena puts out.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2016-10-29 11:53 AM
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-29 10:59 AM Putting rejected trash from human food and ethanol processing is catching up the milling companies which include soy bean and rice hulls and beet pulp. AND let's add GMO feeds and hay products ... 3/4 of the world's countries have outlawed the use of these contaminated genes to be shipped to or grown in their countries and most realize the kill off of bees will be a quick route to world starvation ...... while the USA crooks just keep on pushing all of this crap for huge profits and political donations .. I don't think anyone read the statement on this bag of feed below the picture .. DESIGNED TO BE FED TO A WIDE RANGE OF FARM ANIMALS ... Next thing we will see is big tub of Ramen Noodles with a picture of a horse on them ..
You're wrong as usual. Only 2 countries have outlawed the importation/use of GMOs. A few more don't allow cultivation but that's a protectionist and political positions that has nothing to do with science and these same countries import them all day long. GMOs are as safe as their non-Gmo counterparts. 20 years of safety studies and a trillion meals served backs this up. What exactly do you think causes problems? Why would you be scared of transgenesis but not mutagenesis? If you don't know what those terms mean, look them up and get back to me. You might be surprised by what you discover. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Also please explain how GMOs affect bees. Because the answer is they don't. |
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 Elite Veteran
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Just food for thought. First off I am not defending nutrena, but I want to throw something out here for people to think about before they get on the bashing train. Has anyone seen the auptopsy report on the horse that died ? The horse died, which is horrible, but this girl runs on social media & yells, nutrena killed my horse. I read her post on fb. Until a necropsy is done & published for us all to see, no one can say why her horse died. She said on fb she was having one done. I hope she does. I hope she posts the findings. If it was caused by feed then it should be told. But if not a company got bashed for no reason. There could of been another reason for her horse's death. Colic, it is that time of year with season change, some horse's are prone to colic. Anyway I hate it when anyone looses a horse. I for one know that pain to well, but lets find out the real reason why. I had a 3 yr old filly I had bought as a yearling. One evening she started to colic. Long story short we did all we could for her, but I ended up having my vet come out to put her down cause the pain she was in, I wasn't going to allow her to feel that anymore. We did all we could for her. I couldn't understand why a healthy 3 year old who was on a quality diet, drank well would colic to that point. We had an auptospy done & this filly had a hole in her intestine that apparently she was born with. With age that hole grew. She was doomed from day one. Very sad, but atleast I know in my heart I didn't do anything wrong to cause it. So before one jumps on the rumor train, learn the facts.
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | okhorselover - 2016-10-29 6:42 PM Just food for thought. First off I am not defending nutrena, but I want to throw something out here for people to think about before they get on the bashing train. Has anyone seen the auptopsy report on the horse that died ? The horse died, which is horrible, but this girl runs on social media & yells, nutrena killed my horse. I read her post on fb. Until a necropsy is done & published for us all to see, no one can say why her horse died. She said on fb she was having one done. I hope she does. I hope she posts the findings. If it was caused by feed then it should be told. But if not a company got bashed for no reason. There could of been another reason for her horse's death. Colic, it is that time of year with season change, some horse's are prone to colic. Anyway I hate it when anyone looses a horse. I for one know that pain to well, but lets find out the real reason why. I had a 3 yr old filly I had bought as a yearling. One evening she started to colic. Long story short we did all we could for her, but I ended up having my vet come out to put her down cause the pain she was in, I wasn't going to allow her to feel that anymore. We did all we could for her. I couldn't understand why a healthy 3 year old who was on a quality diet, drank well would colic to that point. We had an auptospy done & this filly had a hole in her intestine that apparently she was born with. With age that hole grew. She was doomed from day one. Very sad, but atleast I know in my heart I didn't do anything wrong to cause it. So before one jumps on the rumor train, learn the facts.
WOW a voice of reason. Something not seen much on this forum lately. |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-29 2:36 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-29 10:59 AM Putting rejected trash from human food and ethanol processing is catching up the milling companies which include soy bean and rice hulls and beet pulp. AND let's add GMO feeds and hay products ... 3/4 of the world's countries have outlawed the use of these contaminated genes to be shipped to or grown in their countries and most realize the kill off of bees will be a quick route to world starvation ...... while the USA crooks just keep on pushing all of this crap for huge profits and political donations .. I don't think anyone read the statement on this bag of feed below the picture .. DESIGNED TO BE FED TO A WIDE RANGE OF FARM ANIMALS ... Next thing we will see is big tub of Ramen Noodles with a picture of a horse on them ..
You're wrong as usual. Only 2 countries have outlawed the importation/use of GMOs. A few more don't allow cultivation but that's a protectionist and political positions that has nothing to do with science and these same countries import them all day long. GMOs are as safe as their non-Gmo counterparts. 20 years of safety studies and a trillion meals served backs this up. What exactly do you think causes problems? Why would you be scared of transgenesis but not mutagenesis? If you don't know what those terms mean, look them up and get back to me. You might be surprised by what you discover.
Well I will say I fed round up ready alfalfa last fall, winter and spring and it was the worst mistake I have ever made with my horses. I did not know at first it was round up ready and I had already bought it so fed it and hoped since so many people use it I would be ok. I killed two horses and the other 25 horses on the place were sick, a case of peritonitis, and every horse had ulcers. I had to raise an orphan foal and it took me months after taking them off the feed and getting them healthy to get them looking ok again. I had vets, universities and hay people telling me that was not the cause that round up ready hay has no round up in it. Well I had it tested and guess what it did in fact have round up in the hay and my horses ate poison for months and I killed beloved horses and cost myself around $30,000. There is hay setting on the docks and has been for over a year because places like China, Japan and others will no longer allow it in. We have been in contact with many hay producers who they themselves hay stopped growing and using it because the loss of livestock that was going on. It is not safe ! I know this makes some people extremely unhappy but if you think it is so safe eat some everyday and see how long it takes before you are no longer healthy. I try very hard now to feed non gmo products. You should have lived my night mare this year where horses just kept getting sick and everyday I wondered who would die next. I was stupid . I do not trust feed mills any more just too much going on and if the products are in the same mill it is a risk, they need to clean it up or put it right on the bag in big bold letters so owners know the risk is real with the medicated feed contamination.
Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2016-10-29 9:05 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 320
Location: Dubuque,IA | Actually there are 26 countruies that ban GMO, I just googled it!! It is only because of the Monsanto propaganda that it is still Ok in the US< There has been tons of research in other countries about how bad GMO is but those people bought by MOnsanto choose to disagree. |
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Saint Stacey
| http://m.nutrenaworld.com/news-events/2016/index.htm
We’re committed to providing additional information to you as we actively investigate the allegations that there is a contamination issue with one of our all-stock feeds produced in LeCompte, Louisiana, and distributed in a very limited geography. Because we are committed to the safety of your animals and the quality of our products we are following our standard procedure to investigate all complaints. There are many misconceptions being spread on the internet and we completely understand your concerns and are taking them seriously. We stand behind the safety and quality of our products and have no indication to conclude that our feed is the cause of these issues.
Let us take a moment to clarify the facts and answer a few questions you might have:
• There is not a nationwide contamination issue with Nutrena feeds.
• The feed product identified on social media was produced in our LeCompte, Louisiana facility which is monensin-free. We have not received additional complaints from this facility at this time and have no reason to believe our feed was the cause of the issue.
• We have received requests to share the lot codes of the feed in question. Please understand, there are no lot codes to share because we have not identified an issue with our feed.
• The complaints we are investigating are not regarding ionophores like monensin/rumensin.
We are doing our best to respond to all the inquiries we have received. We sincerely appreciate your patience if you have sent us a question.
Any official statements and updates from Nutrena will be posted on our Facebook page and shared via Twitter. Please check there for any official updates and question anything else you see on the internet.
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
Location: wherever my daughter's running | You made some good points. I'm not arguing here so please don't take it that way. I'm sorry about your 3 year old. We sadly lost one to colic. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. One thing that leads me to think it wasn't colic with this persons is the fact that her other horse is also sick. The odds of two wirh colic at the same time are a little high. Makes you think there is some type if link. I used to feed Nutrena SafeChoice. I dumped out a bag and there was corn all in it. This was around the time of the issue with ADM. Thanks to the education I got here I contacted Nutrena. They asked for a picture and I sent them one. They said feed was fine. I had fed this feed for several years and there had never been corn in it. Fearing that my feed was bagged soon after a cleaning of the equipment I chunked it and changed their diet.Edited - this was a reply to okhorseliver's post.
Edited by cruise 2016-10-30 6:39 AM
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | raisinrox - 2016-10-29 9:10 PM Actually there are 26 countruies that ban GMO, I just googled it!! It is only because of the Monsanto propaganda that it is still Ok in the US< There has been tons of research in other countries about how bad GMO is but those people bought by MOnsanto choose to disagree.
Those countries banned cultivation, they still import GMOs. There are 2 with an import ban, which I already named. The EU approved additional traits last summer--Xtend, which is dicamba tolerant. Not every trait is approved everywhere, they are considered on an individual basis because they're all different and have their own safety studies. GMO isn't an ingredient, it's a process. |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-29 9:02 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-29 2:36 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-29 10:59 AM Putting rejected trash from human food and ethanol processing is catching up the milling companies which include soy bean and rice hulls and beet pulp. AND let's add GMO feeds and hay products ... 3/4 of the world's countries have outlawed the use of these contaminated genes to be shipped to or grown in their countries and most realize the kill off of bees will be a quick route to world starvation ...... while the USA crooks just keep on pushing all of this crap for huge profits and political donations .. I don't think anyone read the statement on this bag of feed below the picture .. DESIGNED TO BE FED TO A WIDE RANGE OF FARM ANIMALS ... Next thing we will see is big tub of Ramen Noodles with a picture of a horse on them .. You're wrong as usual. Only 2 countries have outlawed the importation/use of GMOs. A few more don't allow cultivation but that's a protectionist and political positions that has nothing to do with science and these same countries import them all day long. GMOs are as safe as their non-Gmo counterparts. 20 years of safety studies and a trillion meals served backs this up. What exactly do you think causes problems? Why would you be scared of transgenesis but not mutagenesis? If you don't know what those terms mean, look them up and get back to me. You might be surprised by what you discover. Well I will say I fed round up ready alfalfa last fall, winter and spring and it was the worst mistake I have ever made with my horses. I did not know at first it was round up ready and I had already bought it so fed it and hoped since so many people use it I would be ok. I killed two horses and the other 25 horses on the place were sick, a case of peritonitis, and every horse had ulcers. I had to raise an orphan foal and it took me months after taking them off the feed and getting them healthy to get them looking ok again. I had vets, universities and hay people telling me that was not the cause that round up ready hay has no round up in it. Well I had it tested and guess what it did in fact have round up in the hay and my horses ate poison for months and I killed beloved horses and cost myself around $30,000. There is hay setting on the docks and has been for over a year because places like China, Japan and others will no longer allow it in. We have been in contact with many hay producers who they themselves hay stopped growing and using it because the loss of livestock that was going on. It is not safe ! I know this makes some people extremely unhappy but if you think it is so safe eat some everyday and see how long it takes before you are no longer healthy. I try very hard now to feed non gmo products. You should have lived my night mare this year where horses just kept getting sick and everyday I wondered who would die next. I was stupid . I do not trust feed mills any more just too much going on and if the products are in the same mill it is a risk, they need to clean it up or put it right on the bag in big bold letters so owners know the risk is real with the medicated feed contamination.
I'm very sorry about your horses. I don't know how RR alfalfa is grown because I'm a row crops person, but what else did you test for? Could there have been insecticide residue? Were there other herbicides used? Did the grower actually follow the label for Roundup applications? Because the surfactant used in the product WILL cause stomach issues, it's like eating soap. Glyphosate itself is less toxic than caffeine or vinegar or salt, and does not bioaccumulate.
As I said, I'm not familiar with hay growing, but in row crops we only use herbicide early season before flowering/fruiting starts. 2 reasons for this: once the canopy closes the crop has successfully outcompeted weeds, and applications over the top of even tolerant crops will cause reduction in yield. So months will have gone by between the last application and harvest. The half life of glyphosate is a few days, and it binds to soil very well, so crop residue would be in the ppb range if detectable at all. So for the grain crops that are RR, I wouldn't hesitate to feed them. For hay, there should be a preharvest interval on the label that must by law be followed that will ensure any residue left will be at safe levels. Btw, non-RR alfalfa will still have had herbicide used on it. Non-GMO usually means more pesticide used, not less. |
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Expert
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| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-30 9:19 AM
cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-29 9:02 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-29 2:36 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-29 10:59 AM Putting rejected trash from human food and ethanol processing is catching up the milling companies which include soy bean and rice hulls and beet pulp. AND let's add GMO feeds and hay products ... 3/4 of the world's countries have outlawed the use of these contaminated genes to be shipped to or grown in their countries and most realize the kill off of bees will be a quick route to world starvation ...... while the USA crooks just keep on pushing all of this crap for huge profits and political donations .. I don't think anyone read the statement on this bag of feed below the picture .. DESIGNED TO BE FED TO A WIDE RANGE OF FARM ANIMALS ... Next thing we will see is big tub of Ramen Noodles with a picture of a horse on them .. You're wrong as usual. Only 2 countries have outlawed the importation/use of GMOs. A few more don't allow cultivation but that's a protectionist and political positions that has nothing to do with science and these same countries import them all day long. GMOs are as safe as their non-Gmo counterparts. 20 years of safety studies and a trillion meals served backs this up. What exactly do you think causes problems? Why would you be scared of transgenesis but not mutagenesis? If you don't know what those terms mean, look them up and get back to me. You might be surprised by what you discover. Well I will say I fed round up ready alfalfa last fall, winter and spring and it was the worst mistake I have ever made with my horses. I did not know at first it was round up ready and I had already bought it so fed it and hoped since so many people use it I would be ok. I killed two horses and the other 25 horses on the place were sick, a case of peritonitis, and every horse had ulcers. I had to raise an orphan foal and it took me months after taking them off the feed and getting them healthy to get them looking ok again. I had vets, universities and hay people telling me that was not the cause that round up ready hay has no round up in it. Well I had it tested and guess what it did in fact have round up in the hay and my horses ate poison for months and I killed beloved horses and cost myself around $30,000. There is hay setting on the docks and has been for over a year because places like China, Japan and others will no longer allow it in. We have been in contact with many hay producers who they themselves hay stopped growing and using it because the loss of livestock that was going on. It is not safe ! I know this makes some people extremely unhappy but if you think it is so safe eat some everyday and see how long it takes before you are no longer healthy. I try very hard now to feed non gmo products. You should have lived my night mare this year where horses just kept getting sick and everyday I wondered who would die next. I was stupid . I do not trust feed mills any more just too much going on and if the products are in the same mill it is a risk, they need to clean it up or put it right on the bag in big bold letters so owners know the risk is real with the medicated feed contamination.
As I said, I'm not familiar with hay growing, but in row crops we only use herbicide early season before flowering/fruiting starts. 2 reasons for this: once the canopy closes the crop has successfully outcompeted weeds, and applications over the top of even tolerant crops will cause reduction in yield. So months will have gone by between the last application and harvest. The half life of glyphosate is a few days, and it binds to soil very well, so crop residue would be in the ppb range if detectable at all. So for the grain crops that are RR, I wouldn't hesitate to feed them. For hay, there should be a preharvest interval on the label that must by law be followed that will ensure any residue left will be at safe levels. Btw, non-RR alfalfa will still have had herbicide used on it. Non-GMO usually means more pesticide used, not less.
Where I am our hay is not typically sprayed with a pesticide with don't really have those issues. This hay had not been sprayed in two years so this was an residual in the ground and I know a lot of people try to argue that it is in the ground but it is. My hay tested positive for round up and nothing else. We checked for mycotoxins, check nutrients and nitrates all of which were good. We checked for everything we could think of. My horses died of perforated ulcers which is what round up will do. Trust me we looked at every option I could think of. It also caused growth issues in my new born foals and yearlings also a side effect of round up. There is a ton of research you just have to look for releible sources which is the same for the side saying round up is totally safe. I understand farmers want to use it and that is totally their right I just will never trust it again.
Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2016-10-30 8:29 PM
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-30 8:16 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-30 9:19 AM cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-29 9:02 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-29 2:36 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-29 10:59 AM Putting rejected trash from human food and ethanol processing is catching up the milling companies which include soy bean and rice hulls and beet pulp. AND let's add GMO feeds and hay products ... 3/4 of the world's countries have outlawed the use of these contaminated genes to be shipped to or grown in their countries and most realize the kill off of bees will be a quick route to world starvation ...... while the USA crooks just keep on pushing all of this crap for huge profits and political donations .. I don't think anyone read the statement on this bag of feed below the picture .. DESIGNED TO BE FED TO A WIDE RANGE OF FARM ANIMALS ... Next thing we will see is big tub of Ramen Noodles with a picture of a horse on them .. You're wrong as usual. Only 2 countries have outlawed the importation/use of GMOs. A few more don't allow cultivation but that's a protectionist and political positions that has nothing to do with science and these same countries import them all day long. GMOs are as safe as their non-Gmo counterparts. 20 years of safety studies and a trillion meals served backs this up. What exactly do you think causes problems? Why would you be scared of transgenesis but not mutagenesis? If you don't know what those terms mean, look them up and get back to me. You might be surprised by what you discover. Well I will say I fed round up ready alfalfa last fall, winter and spring and it was the worst mistake I have ever made with my horses. I did not know at first it was round up ready and I had already bought it so fed it and hoped since so many people use it I would be ok. I killed two horses and the other 25 horses on the place were sick, a case of peritonitis, and every horse had ulcers. I had to raise an orphan foal and it took me months after taking them off the feed and getting them healthy to get them looking ok again. I had vets, universities and hay people telling me that was not the cause that round up ready hay has no round up in it. Well I had it tested and guess what it did in fact have round up in the hay and my horses ate poison for months and I killed beloved horses and cost myself around $30,000. There is hay setting on the docks and has been for over a year because places like China, Japan and others will no longer allow it in. We have been in contact with many hay producers who they themselves hay stopped growing and using it because the loss of livestock that was going on. It is not safe ! I know this makes some people extremely unhappy but if you think it is so safe eat some everyday and see how long it takes before you are no longer healthy. I try very hard now to feed non gmo products. You should have lived my night mare this year where horses just kept getting sick and everyday I wondered who would die next. I was stupid . I do not trust feed mills any more just too much going on and if the products are in the same mill it is a risk, they need to clean it up or put it right on the bag in big bold letters so owners know the risk is real with the medicated feed contamination.
As I said, I'm not familiar with hay growing, but in row crops we only use herbicide early season before flowering/fruiting starts. 2 reasons for this: once the canopy closes the crop has successfully outcompeted weeds, and applications over the top of even tolerant crops will cause reduction in yield. So months will have gone by between the last application and harvest. The half life of glyphosate is a few days, and it binds to soil very well, so crop residue would be in the ppb range if detectable at all. So for the grain crops that are RR, I wouldn't hesitate to feed them. For hay, there should be a preharvest interval on the label that must by law be followed that will ensure any residue left will be at safe levels. Btw, non-RR alfalfa will still have had herbicide used on it. Non-GMO usually means more pesticide used, not less. Where I am our hay is not typically sprayed with a pesticide with don't really have those issues. This hay had not been sprayed in two years so this was an residual in the ground and I know a lot of people try to argue that it is in the ground but it is. My hay tested positive for round up and nothing else. We checked for mycotoxins, check nutrients and nitrates all of which were good. We checked for everything we could think of. My horses died of perforated ulcers which is what round up will do. Trust me we looked at every option I could think of. It also caused growth issues in my new born foals and yearlings also a side effect of round up. There is a ton of research you just have to look for releible sources which is the same for the side saying round up is totally safe. I understand farmers want to use it and that is totally their right I just will never trust it again.
Can you show me your sources for these effects of glyphosate? I've never seen any reliable research show safety issues at all. It also has no residual activity and breaks down quickly in air and light, so I have trouble believing it was detectable in hay that wasn't sprayed for 2 years. The plantback interval is literally like a couple of days. |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | PS you do realize pesticide includes herbicides, right? |
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Posts: 2258
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-30 9:18 PM
PS u do realize pesticide includes herbicides, right?
Most of our hay around here is regular old fashioned alfalfa and non round up ready so once it is established it is not sprayed but round up ready hay is sprayed several times in the process of getting it going. The hay I bought was not sprayed with anything besides round up two years prior, we sent hay samples in to be tested and it came back with round up in the hay even after two years. You can do a lot of reading about it of course you have to try and weed through all the crazies on both sides of it. We checked for all things, including the preservative that some hay producers use to get hay up a little green , it is causing a lot of problems as well. The only thing that showed up was glysophate, do you know you can test for almost anything for free to about $30 but if you want a glysophate test you pay $300 for one single sample . It is easy to say a product is safe if people can't afford to test stuff when an issue comes up. I understand why it is used and have no issue with farmers wanting to use it but after my ordeal I just can't justify feeding my animals any hay the is round up ready. I could find all I have read it but I have also talked to so many people who know the issue well. Idaho is having issues now with round up ready hay and are not able to move it like they use to. The guy we got some hay from stopped growing it because he was losing animals to it. They have figured out that if the hay is cut prebloom it is far more dangerous if it is cut late the issues seem to be much less. I will try to dig up all I had and I know so many people who feed it but when I start asking them questions on a few things about their animals a pattern starts to show up very similar to the beginnings of my ordeal. At first you wouldn't have thought much of what was happening it seemed like normal horse things but it ramped up to severe after about 5 months into feeding it. Let me see what I can find that I can share but really if you go look for it you can find studies and lots of info. Thanks for your side of it I am not some big hater that is afraid to learn or listen but this literally sunk us. I have to sell my stud, my mares and everything I can to recoup. |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-30 10:04 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-30 9:18 PM PS u do realize pesticide includes herbicides, right? Most of our hay around here is regular old fashioned alfalfa and non round up ready so once it is established it is not sprayed but round up ready hay is sprayed several times in the process of getting it going. The hay I bought was not sprayed with anything besides round up two years prior, we sent hay samples in to be tested and it came back with round up in the hay even after two years. You can do a lot of reading about it of course you have to try and weed through all the crazies on both sides of it. We checked for all things, including the preservative that some hay producers use to get hay up a little green , it is causing a lot of problems as well. The only thing that showed up was glysophate, do you know you can test for almost anything for free to about $30 but if you want a glysophate test you pay $300 for one single sample . It is easy to say a product is safe if people can't afford to test stuff when an issue comes up. I understand why it is used and have no issue with farmers wanting to use it but after my ordeal I just can't justify feeding my animals any hay the is round up ready. I could find all I have read it but I have also talked to so many people who know the issue well. Idaho is having issues now with round up ready hay and are not able to move it like they use to. The guy we got some hay from stopped growing it because he was losing animals to it. They have figured out that if the hay is cut prebloom it is far more dangerous if it is cut late the issues seem to be much less. I will try to dig up all I had and I know so many people who feed it but when I start asking them questions on a few things about their animals a pattern starts to show up very similar to the beginnings of my ordeal. At first you wouldn't have thought much of what was happening it seemed like normal horse things but it ramped up to severe after about 5 months into feeding it. Let me see what I can find that I can share but really if you go look for it you can find studies and lots of info. Thanks for your side of it I am not some big hater that is afraid to learn or listen but this literally sunk us. I have to sell my stud, my mares and everything I can to recoup.
I would be very interested to read your info. I don't doubt that something caused your issues, but I would like to dig deeper on this. Are you positive they told the truth about when it was sprayed? |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | I just read last night that they ruled out west Nile, encephalitis and equine herpes. Interested to see what the cause is. The one horse is still alive but very ill. |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 8:54 AM
cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-30 10:04 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-30 9:18 PM PS u do realize pesticide includes herbicides, right? Most of our hay around here is regular old fashioned alfalfa and non round up ready so once it is established it is not sprayed but round up ready hay is sprayed several times in the process of getting it going. The hay I bought was not sprayed with anything besides round up two years prior, we sent hay samples in to be tested and it came back with round up in the hay even after two years. You can do a lot of reading about it of course you have to try and weed through all the crazies on both sides of it. We checked for all things, including the preservative that some hay producers use to get hay up a little green , it is causing a lot of problems as well. The only thing that showed up was glysophate, do you know you can test for almost anything for free to about $30 but if you want a glysophate test you pay $300 for one single sample . It is easy to say a product is safe if people can't afford to test stuff when an issue comes up. I understand why it is used and have no issue with farmers wanting to use it but after my ordeal I just can't justify feeding my animals any hay the is round up ready. I could find all I have read it but I have also talked to so many people who know the issue well. Idaho is having issues now with round up ready hay and are not able to move it like they use to. The guy we got some hay from stopped growing it because he was losing animals to it. They have figured out that if the hay is cut prebloom it is far more dangerous if it is cut late the issues seem to be much less. I will try to dig up all I had and I know so many people who feed it but when I start asking them questions on a few things about their animals a pattern starts to show up very similar to the beginnings of my ordeal. At first you wouldn't have thought much of what was happening it seemed like normal horse things but it ramped up to severe after about 5 months into feeding it. Let me see what I can find that I can share but really if you go look for it you can find studies and lots of info. Thanks for your side of it I am not some big hater that is afraid to learn or listen but this literally sunk us. I have to sell my stud, my mares and everything I can to recoup.
Pretty sure but even if it was sprayed this year it should not have round up in the hay. My chiro lost a horse from round up this year as well when he got on a field that had been sprayed a day or so prior. There were also several more horses who were being fed the same hay I had that died, were sick or had some of the other issues mine were having. It was most certainly the cause there is no doubt to me. I know I can not convince everyone of that but lucky for me I don't have to . There were no weeds, no other spray, no toxins in my soil or water, no mold, nutrients were fine , no nitrate issues we were pretty much left with the option and the only positive test which was round up in my hay. I tell people if you truly believe it is totally safe to eat on a daily basis then eat some even a very small amount daily. I can pretty much tell you that you will not fair well. I guess there could have been some odd unknown issue that you could not find in test but as soon as the hay was removed my horses started regaining their health. I had to treat 20 horses for ulcer, had many vet visits, and continue to keep some of them on ulcer supplements . I will find some of the things I read and try to send them on to you but you can do a lot of reading just by looking it up. There is plenty of info from non wackado sources . I don't argue with anyone on this I believe it and have been shown enough evidence to prove it and certainly you or anyone else is welcome to believe otherwise. |
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| First of all, hay producers nurture their grass in their hay fields. They would not spray a field with ROUNDUP because it kills everything. Roundup evaporates and therefore dissipates and you can go back and plant after three days, even plants used for food (human). I used to date a guy that was a farmer in South Louisiana and he used his 55 gallon barrels that ROUNDUP came in to feed his horses. I think he sprayed an entire field to come back and plant soybeans.
When I spray ROUNDUP, my idiot horses make sure they eat all the dead stuff where I sprayed.
There are herbicides that sterilize the soil for up to a year but since nothing grows on this soil, there is very little chance of an animal being poisoned. |
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Hummer's Hero
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Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | streakysox - 2016-10-31 10:33 AM
First of all, hay producers nurture their grass in their hay fields. They would not spray a field with ROUNDUP because it kills everything. Roundup evaporates and therefore dissipates and you can go back and plant after three days, even plants used for food (human). I used to date a guy that was a farmer in South Louisiana and he used his 55 gallon barrels that ROUNDUP came in to feed his horses. I think he sprayed an entire field to come back and plant soybeans.
When I spray ROUNDUP, my idiot horses make sure they eat all the dead stuff where I sprayed.
There are herbicides that sterilize the soil for up to a year but since nothing grows on this soil, there is very little chance of an animal being poisoned.
There has been a Round-Up Ready alfalfa developed and approved to market in the last 5 years. That means that it can be sprayed with Round-up and not kill it. Just like Round-Up Ready corn or beans. I'm sure that is the product that is being discussed in this tangent of this thread.
That said, I'm with Three4Luck on this particular issue... Never in the years working in an agronomy office did I hear of anything of this sort happening. I spray glyphosate around my place regularly, and I'm surrounded by farm ground, all of which gets glyphosate, 2-4D, baythroid, or any other assortment of products applied according to label, and have never had those types of issues. I need to do some more research to see what other incidents have happened that people are trying to pin on product application.
99% of all issues we ever saw at my office (including all non-livestock complaints--which was almost all of them) were due to off label application, or occasionally, drift. |
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| RockinGR - 2016-10-31 11:23 AM
streakysox - 2016-10-31 10:33 AM
First of all, hay producers nurture their grass in their hay fields. They would not spray a field with ROUNDUP because it kills everything. Roundup evaporates and therefore dissipates and you can go back and plant after three days, even plants used for food (human). I used to date a guy that was a farmer in South Louisiana and he used his 55 gallon barrels that ROUNDUP came in to feed his horses. I think he sprayed an entire field to come back and plant soybeans.
When I spray ROUNDUP, my idiot horses make sure they eat all the dead stuff where I sprayed.
There are herbicides that sterilize the soil for up to a year but since nothing grows on this soil, there is very little chance of an animal being poisoned.
There has been a Round-Up Ready alfalfa developed and approved to market in the last 5 years. That means that it can be sprayed with Round-up and not kill it. Just like Round-Up Ready corn or beans. I'm sure that is the product that is being discussed in this tangent of this thread.
That said, I'm with Three4Luck on this particular issue... Never in the years working in an agronomy office did I hear of anything of this sort happening. I spray glyphosate around my place regularly, and I'm surrounded by farm ground, all of which gets glyphosate, 2-4D, baythroid, or any other assortment of products applied according to label, and have never had those types of issues. I need to do some more research to see what other incidents have happened that people are trying to pin on product application.
99% of all issues we ever saw at my office (including all non-livestock complaints--which was almost all of them ) were due to off label application, or occasionally, drift.
Sorry no tangent here we just got to talking about the round up ready hay. I have talked to enough people who have had experience with this to know it is a real issue. It is easy to hid it in other issues especially with horses and the fact that is cost so much to test for. It is never an issue until it is and I can guarantee some horses have died form what owners thought was a colic and it might have been a round up issue . I am not out trying to eliminate round up it is simply something I no longer use and thankfully many farmers will no longer use it in hay either because of their own issues and now it won't ship out of the country to many of the places it use to. If you could see my place you can walk around and tell all the places where the hay was fed and nothing will grown still and it has been months. You would have had to be here and see what it did there were just so many little things that went on . We have been hay producers as well so I am well aware of all that goes into making hay and I don't think any hay producers is in the wrong for growing and selling it. Sorry if you don't understand, this was well researched and just because you yourself have not seen the ill effects does not mean it is not true. I have been in contact with leading experts on both sides . If anyone wants to talk about it I am happy to message you. I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Round up ready has been around a very long time . It was developed right here close to my home.
Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2016-10-31 11:53 AM
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | There is literally nothing I can find from a legit source describing your issue. Could you please share your info? I did find where the label allows application up to 5 days pre-harvest in alfalfa but that is not how it's normally used. |
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Hummer's Hero
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Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-31 11:50 AM
RockinGR - 2016-10-31 11:23 AM
streakysox - 2016-10-31 10:33 AM
First of all, hay producers nurture their grass in their hay fields. They would not spray a field with ROUNDUP because it kills everything. Roundup evaporates and therefore dissipates and you can go back and plant after three days, even plants used for food (human). I used to date a guy that was a farmer in South Louisiana and he used his 55 gallon barrels that ROUNDUP came in to feed his horses. I think he sprayed an entire field to come back and plant soybeans.
When I spray ROUNDUP, my idiot horses make sure they eat all the dead stuff where I sprayed.
There are herbicides that sterilize the soil for up to a year but since nothing grows on this soil, there is very little chance of an animal being poisoned.
There has been a Round-Up Ready alfalfa developed and approved to market in the last 5 years. That means that it can be sprayed with Round-up and not kill it. Just like Round-Up Ready corn or beans. I'm sure that is the product that is being discussed in this tangent of this thread.
That said, I'm with Three4Luck on this particular issue... Never in the years working in an agronomy office did I hear of anything of this sort happening. I spray glyphosate around my place regularly, and I'm surrounded by farm ground, all of which gets glyphosate, 2-4D, baythroid, or any other assortment of products applied according to label, and have never had those types of issues. I need to do some more research to see what other incidents have happened that people are trying to pin on product application.
99% of all issues we ever saw at my office (including all non-livestock complaints--which was almost all of them ) were due to off label application, or occasionally, drift.
Sorry no tangent here we just got to talking about the round up ready hay. I have talked to enough people who have had experience with this to know it is a real issue. It is easy to hid it in other issues especially with horses and the fact that is cost so much to test for. It is never an issue until it is and I can guarantee some horses have died form what owners thought was a colic and it might have been a round up issue . I am not out trying to eliminate round up it is simply something I no longer use and thankfully many farmers will no longer use it in hay either because of their own issues and now it won't ship out of the country to many of the places it use to. If you could see my place you can walk around and tell all the places where the hay was fed and nothing will grown still and it has been months. You would have had to be here and see what it did there were just so many little things that went on . We have been hay producers as well so I am well aware of all that goes into making hay and I don't think any hay producers is in the wrong for growing and selling it. Sorry if you don't understand, this was well researched and just because you yourself have not seen the ill effects does not mean it is not true. I have been in contact with leading experts on both sides . If anyone wants to talk about it I am happy to message you. I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Round up ready has been around a very long time . It was developed right here close to my home.
Glyphosate has no residual effects...It's half life is a matter of days. There are products that are, but Roundup is NOT a sterilant, it's a non-residual systemic. It can only affect the living plant tissue that it makes contact with. Sounds to me like there is more going on. |
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | RockinGR - 2016-10-31 12:08 PM cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-31 11:50 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-31 11:23 AM streakysox - 2016-10-31 10:33 AM First of all, hay producers nurture their grass in their hay fields. They would not spray a field with ROUNDUP because it kills everything. Roundup evaporates and therefore dissipates and you can go back and plant after three days, even plants used for food (human). I used to date a guy that was a farmer in South Louisiana and he used his 55 gallon barrels that ROUNDUP came in to feed his horses. I think he sprayed an entire field to come back and plant soybeans. When I spray ROUNDUP, my idiot horses make sure they eat all the dead stuff where I sprayed. There are herbicides that sterilize the soil for up to a year but since nothing grows on this soil, there is very little chance of an animal being poisoned. There has been a Round-Up Ready alfalfa developed and approved to market in the last 5 years. That means that it can be sprayed with Round-up and not kill it. Just like Round-Up Ready corn or beans. I'm sure that is the product that is being discussed in this tangent of this thread. That said, I'm with Three4Luck on this particular issue... Never in the years working in an agronomy office did I hear of anything of this sort happening. I spray glyphosate around my place regularly, and I'm surrounded by farm ground, all of which gets glyphosate, 2-4D, baythroid, or any other assortment of products applied according to label, and have never had those types of issues. I need to do some more research to see what other incidents have happened that people are trying to pin on product application. 99% of all issues we ever saw at my office (including all non-livestock complaints--which was almost all of them ) were due to off label application, or occasionally, drift. Sorry no tangent here we just got to talking about the round up ready hay. I have talked to enough people who have had experience with this to know it is a real issue. It is easy to hid it in other issues especially with horses and the fact that is cost so much to test for. It is never an issue until it is and I can guarantee some horses have died form what owners thought was a colic and it might have been a round up issue . I am not out trying to eliminate round up it is simply something I no longer use and thankfully many farmers will no longer use it in hay either because of their own issues and now it won't ship out of the country to many of the places it use to. If you could see my place you can walk around and tell all the places where the hay was fed and nothing will grown still and it has been months. You would have had to be here and see what it did there were just so many little things that went on . We have been hay producers as well so I am well aware of all that goes into making hay and I don't think any hay producers is in the wrong for growing and selling it. Sorry if you don't understand, this was well researched and just because you yourself have not seen the ill effects does not mean it is not true. I have been in contact with leading experts on both sides . If anyone wants to talk about it I am happy to message you. I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Round up ready has been around a very long time . It was developed right here close to my home. Glyphosate has no residual effects...It's half life is a matter of days. There are products that are, but Roundup is NOT a sterilant, it's a non-residual systemic. It can only affect the living plant tissue that it makes contact with. Sounds to me like there is more going on.
Exactly what I was thinking. It has zero residual effect, seriously. Something else was going on. |
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| RockinGR - 2016-10-31 12:08 PM
cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-31 11:50 AM
RockinGR - 2016-10-31 11:23 AM
streakysox - 2016-10-31 10:33 AM
First of all, hay producers nurture their grass in their hay fields. They would not spray a field with ROUNDUP because it kills everything. Roundup evaporates and therefore dissipates and you can go back and plant after three days, even plants used for food (human). I used to date a guy that was a farmer in South Louisiana and he used his 55 gallon barrels that ROUNDUP came in to feed his horses. I think he sprayed an entire field to come back and plant soybeans.
When I spray ROUNDUP, my idiot horses make sure they eat all the dead stuff where I sprayed.
There are herbicides that sterilize the soil for up to a year but since nothing grows on this soil, there is very little chance of an animal being poisoned.
There has been a Round-Up Ready alfalfa developed and approved to market in the last 5 years. That means that it can be sprayed with Round-up and not kill it. Just like Round-Up Ready corn or beans. I'm sure that is the product that is being discussed in this tangent of this thread.
That said, I'm with Three4Luck on this particular issue... Never in the years working in an agronomy office did I hear of anything of this sort happening. I spray glyphosate around my place regularly, and I'm surrounded by farm ground, all of which gets glyphosate, 2-4D, baythroid, or any other assortment of products applied according to label, and have never had those types of issues. I need to do some more research to see what other incidents have happened that people are trying to pin on product application.
99% of all issues we ever saw at my office (including all non-livestock complaints--which was almost all of them ) were due to off label application, or occasionally, drift.
Sorry no tangent here we just got to talking about the round up ready hay. I have talked to enough people who have had experience with this to know it is a real issue. It is easy to hid it in other issues especially with horses and the fact that is cost so much to test for. It is never an issue until it is and I can guarantee some horses have died form what owners thought was a colic and it might have been a round up issue . I am not out trying to eliminate round up it is simply something I no longer use and thankfully many farmers will no longer use it in hay either because of their own issues and now it won't ship out of the country to many of the places it use to. If you could see my place you can walk around and tell all the places where the hay was fed and nothing will grown still and it has been months. You would have had to be here and see what it did there were just so many little things that went on . We have been hay producers as well so I am well aware of all that goes into making hay and I don't think any hay producers is in the wrong for growing and selling it. Sorry if you don't understand, this was well researched and just because you yourself have not seen the ill effects does not mean it is not true. I have been in contact with leading experts on both sides . If anyone wants to talk about it I am happy to message you. I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Round up ready has been around a very long time . It was developed right here close to my home.
Glyphosate has no residual effects...It's half life is a matter of days. There are products that are, but Roundup is NOT a sterilant, it's a non-residual systemic. It can only affect the living plant tissue that it makes contact with. Sounds to me like there is more going on.
Nothing else as far as anyone can find. If glysophate goes away why is it in the ground years after the use. I can not make anyone believe this but test prove it. I totally get not everyone will back this but enough people do to make me a believer as well. There is a lot for people to learn if they will. I can not talk about all of it yet but you know if you chat to much about it you sometimes get shut up letters or visitors. Why would that happen ? I am just one little person my choice to stop using it will not effect anyone but myself. |
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I would love to see your sources for this info. Glyphosate cannot be preventing plant growth because it doesn't work that way. At all. I can't find anyone else, hay growers or livestock people, who have had an experience like yours, and I can't find any sources saying that RR alfalfa has affected livestock negatively. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 3:28 PM I would love to see your sources for this info. Glyphosate cannot be preventing plant growth because it doesn't work that way. At all. I can't find anyone else, hay growers or livestock people, who have had an experience like yours, and I can't find any sources saying that RR alfalfa has affected livestock negatively.
you just don't know.
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | 1DSoon - 2016-10-31 2:35 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 3:28 PM I would love to see your sources for this info. Glyphosate cannot be preventing plant growth because it doesn't work that way. At all. I can't find anyone else, hay growers or livestock people, who have had an experience like yours, and I can't find any sources saying that RR alfalfa has affected livestock negatively. you just don't know.
I want to know! Haha |
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| When you screw around with the genes of plants like the GMO people do ...
they have no clue and are paid to sell a product regardless of long term
affects to animals or other wild plants and the entire environment is
changed for the worse.
Look at the honey bee situation ... these fools have products that will kill
all kinds of worms and other little beasts and then lie about killing the
bees which are totally essential for food crops and keeping the world
in a normal state ...
I would never believe a county or state ag person as being smart on how
to manage any type of crop or livestock. If they were smart and know
all they would not be sitting on their butts working for a salary ... they
would be owners of large ag or cattle operations. They are an indirect
agent for your chemical companies .. period !!
IT IS NOT SMART TO MESS WITH MOTHER NATURE !!
MAN HAS CREATED MORE DISASTERS THAN ANY BUG IN THE WORLD..
lol
FYI; Idiot hay producers in my area also spray a chemical on hay and
alfalfa right before baling to keep the green color .... no idea what
it is ... but I will buy from someone that uses practical farming
practices ...
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| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 2:45 PM
1DSoon - 2016-10-31 2:35 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 3:28 PM I would love to see your sources for this info. Glyphosate cannot be preventing plant growth because it doesn't work that way. At all. I can't find anyone else, hay growers or livestock people, who have had an experience like yours, and I can't find any sources saying that RR alfalfa has affected livestock negatively. you just don't know.
Well you didn't look very hard it is not hard to find. I did't mean it slows plant growth it causes growth problems in animals certainly not saying every animal. We just bought hay from a guy who stopped producing it after he lost several bulls, he is the one who told us that the producers in his area have discovered that they avoid the problems by harvesting the hay later after the bloom. I didn't save every article I read but can go find them, I also have a brother in law who is a biochemist and gave me lots of insight on it. I always find it funny people have such a hard time understanding that eating poison is bad. There is no denying my hay had round up in it we had it tested at the Montana State University. Are you saying that eating a weed killer is healthy? The facts are my hay had round up in it I realize that not all hay will have this but mine did and I fed it for 7 months so for 7 months my horses ate round up and they were sick and some died. These were healthy well taken care of animals. Just because you yourself has not had an issue or know of an issue does not mean it can not happen. I am home all the time I saw all the little things start and most people who are not around all the time would have missed that it even happened until they found them dead or suffering from a painful episode. Most of these you would have just thought the horse coliced and died but these were more than that. |
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| BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-31 3:25 PM
When you screw around with the genes of plants like the GMO people do ...
they have no clue and are paid to sell a product regardless of long term
affects to animals or other wild plants and the entire environment is
changed for the worse.
Look at the honey bee situation ... these fools have products that will kill
all kinds of worms and other little beasts and then lie about killing the
bees which are totally essential for food crops and keeping the world
in a normal state ...
I would never believe a county or state ag person as being smart on how
to manage any type of crop or livestock. If they were smart and know
all they would not be sitting on their butts working for a salary ... they
would be owners of large ag or cattle operations. They are an indirect
agent for your chemical companies .. period !!
IT IS NOT SMART TO MESS WITH MOTHER NATURE !!
MAN HAS CREATED MORE DISASTERS THAN ANY BUG IN THE WORLD..
lol
FYI; Idiot hay producers in my area also spray a chemical on hay and
alfalfa right before baling to keep the green color .... no idea what
it is ... but I will buy from someone that uses practical farming
practices ...
That chemical is actually causing huge problems for animals. We were told to look into it as well but our hay producer does not use it. I won't buy that hay either. I made a terrible mistake this year with my hay and I will forever feel bad about it so now I get a little beat up when I mention because some people just don't want to believe it can be bad. So now I just won't use it no one else has to believe me for me to know the truth that happened to me. |
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Location: Way up North | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-31 3:25 PM When you screw around with the genes of plants like the GMO people do ... they have no clue and are paid to sell a product regardless of long term affects to animals or other wild plants and the entire environment is changed for the worse. Look at the honey bee situation ... these fools have products that will kill all kinds of worms and other little beasts and then lie about killing the bees which are totally essential for food crops and keeping the world in a normal state ... I would never believe a county or state ag person as being smart on how to manage any type of crop or livestock. If they were smart and know all they would not be sitting on their butts working for a salary ... they would be owners of large ag or cattle operations. They are an indirect agent for your chemical companies .. period !! IT IS NOT SMART TO MESS WITH MOTHER NATURE !! MAN HAS CREATED MORE DISASTERS THAN ANY BUG IN THE WORLD.. lol FYI; Idiot hay producers in my area also spray a chemical on hay and alfalfa right before baling to keep the green color .... no idea what it is ... but I will buy from someone that uses practical farming practices ...
For the love of all things holy, where did you get any of your info for the basis of these opinions??? Facebook? A cult?
FYI, The chemical on the hay is probably a preservative and it isn't just to keep it a green color. Have you ever asked those 'idiot farmers' what they are using and why? |
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| AllAroundRider - 2016-10-31 3:41 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-31 3:25 PM When you screw around with the genes of plants like the GMO people do ... they have no clue and are paid to sell a product regardless of long term affects to animals or other wild plants and the entire environment is changed for the worse. Look at the honey bee situation ... these fools have products that will kill all kinds of worms and other little beasts and then lie about killing the bees which are totally essential for food crops and keeping the world in a normal state ... I would never believe a county or state ag person as being smart on how to manage any type of crop or livestock. If they were smart and know all they would not be sitting on their butts working for a salary ... they would be owners of large ag or cattle operations. They are an indirect agent for your chemical companies .. period !! IT IS NOT SMART TO MESS WITH MOTHER NATURE !! MAN HAS CREATED MORE DISASTERS THAN ANY BUG IN THE WORLD.. lol FYI; Idiot hay producers in my area also spray a chemical on hay and alfalfa right before baling to keep the green color .... no idea what it is ... but I will buy from someone that uses practical farming practices ...
For the love of all things holy, where did you get any of your info for the basis of these opinions??? Facebook? A cult?
FYI, The chemical on the hay is probably a preservative and it isn't just to keep it a green color. Have you ever asked those 'idiot farmers' what they are using and why?
The chemical is a preservative but it is causing many issues with horses and cattle. I have had vets warm me about it and when I was trying to figure mine out even the big universities told me to look into it. |
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| One person you can watch and listen to is Dr Don Huber. I realize you have to weed through the crazies but you also can not just listen to Monsanto. |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | You made a claim, I asked for a source so I can read it myself. I think you don't understand toxicity. Glyphosate is less toxic than things we ingest every day like caffeine and salt and vinegar. It doesn't bioaccumulate. When traces are found in harvested crops, it's in ppm or ppb. Do you understand how much you would have to eat to reach a toxic level? As a human, it would require several tons of corn in a single day.
BH USA, your lack of education is showing. RR crops were created with a process called transgenesis, horizontal gene transfer. This process does occur in nature, the sweet potato is a great example. They add a specific gene to get the desired result and then test the crap out of it to make sure it's equivalent to the original in growth and nutrition, and that there aren't any unexpected proteins that could cause allergies beyond what the original crop had.
Compare this to mutagenesis, where DNA is treated with radiation or chemicals to cause mutations until you get one you like. This is non-Gmo. It can be labeled organic. It's not tested like transgenic crops have been, and you eat food created this way quite often without ever knowing it. Which one sounds scarier? |
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-31 3:45 PM
One person you can watch and listen to is Dr Don Huber. I realize you have to weed through the crazies but you also can not just listen to Monsanto.
You do realize there's a crap ton of independent research that backs up what I'm saying, right? Over 2000 studies. Many of which were done on other continents. |
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| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 3:55 PM
You made a claim, I asked for a source so I can read it myself. I think you don't understand toxicity. Glyphosate is less toxic than things we ingest every day like caffeine and salt and vinegar. It doesn't bioaccumulate. When traces are found in harvested crops, it's in ppm or ppb. Do you understand how much you would have to eat to reach a toxic level? As a human, it would require several tons of corn in a single day.
BH USA, your lack of education is showing. RR crops were created with a process called transgenesis, horizontal gene transfer. This process does occur in nature, the sweet potato is a great example. They add a specific gene to get the desired result and then test the crap out of it to make sure it's equivalent to the original in growth and nutrition, and that there aren't any unexpected proteins that could cause allergies beyond what the original crop had.
Compare this to mutagenesis, where DNA is treated with radiation or chemicals to cause mutations until you get one you like. This is non-Gmo. It can be labeled organic. It's not tested like transgenic crops have been, and you eat food created this way quite often without ever knowing it. Which one sounds scarier?
Actually I do understand and horses are at 400 ppm to be toxic people are about 15 ppm that is not tons per day and that is per the University that did my testing, they also happen to be the University that developed Round up Ready alfalfa so a pretty good source I would say. It does accumulate in the system do a little reading not wrote by Monsanto. My ground even tested positive and has never been sprayed with round up . You can slam me all you want I am not stupid about this and also not small minded about it. I have done my homework you should too. I didn't mention this issue to start a fight it is information people can be aware of. I am not alone in this like you would like to think and calling me dumb won't change that. You are welcome to eat round up all you want in fact I suggest you get after it and prove me wrong. It is simply a risk I will not take with my own animals you can take or leave it . I also told you that I did not have all of my information on me at the time and did give a name of a man that you can listen to I am sure you will call him an idiot too but at the end of the day it really doesn't matter to me if you think I am wrong. If you have an idea of what killed my horses and made the rest sick surely you can fill me in . Maybe all the vets, DR, Univeristies, scientist ect that I talked to are dumb too I actual welcome a solid idea if you have one .
Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2016-10-31 4:16 PM
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| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 3:59 PM
cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-31 3:45 PM
One person you can watch and listen to is Dr Don Huber. I realize you have to weed through the crazies but you also can not just listen to Monsanto.
You do realize there's a crap ton of independent research that backs up what I'm saying, right? Over 2000 studies. Many of which were done on other continents.
That goes both ways you know. Do you mean the countries that now won't accept round up ready hay? Clearly we have different views on this. I have read lots of studies on the safety as well they are easy to find. I am done arguing you can listen to the guy I mentioned and there are lots of other sources if you really want to look. I am just going to go back to drooling and being to stupid to function.
Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2016-10-31 4:28 PM
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Just because I think you're wrong and lacking knowledge doesn't mean I think you're stupid. Why can you not provide sources? Btw, the LD 50 is 5600 mg/kg. Caffeine is 192 mg/kg to compare. Huge difference. And glyphosate does not bioaccumulate and has no residual. It will bind to soil, but this doesn't affect plants growing in the soil. |
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| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 4:48 PM
Just because I think you're wrong and lacking knowledge doesn't mean I think you're stupid. Why can you not provide sources? Btw, the LD 50 is 5600 mg/kg. Caffeine is 192 mg/kg to compare. Huge difference. And glyphosate does not bioaccumulate and has no residual. It will bind to soil, but this doesn't affect plants growing in the soil.
Why is it in plants then. I do not have a list of places and things I read that does not mean I made it up. I am on a new computer and don't have my saved searches. Go search glysophate and horses, round up ready alfalfa and horses. Do a little reading it does have a residual or it wouldn't still be in the ground years later, you can test your blood , urine , hair and bone even and find it. I don't know why it is so hard to believe that while my hay had round up in it proven by testing that it could not be the cause of health issues. Look up symptoms for glysophate poisoning/toxicity and while most pertain to people because there are few studies on animals mine had all symptoms a horse could get. Maybe not in so many words did you call me dumb but by implying I do not know what toxicity is and telling me that all I have learned and been taught you did in fact call me stupid. I can tell you point blank there is a lot out there for you to learn on this issue just because you believe what the label tells you and studies done by the company does not make it all true. There is way more going on than you have any idea about. You go put it out there that you believe round up is bad and cost you thousands of dollars see who shows up and tell me again how safe it is . They wouldn't want you to shut up if all was well with it. When I get all of my stuff up I am happy to share it with you but you don't have to look very hard to find it yourself. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 5:48 PM Just because I think you're wrong and lacking knowledge doesn't mean I think you're stupid. Why can you not provide sources? Btw, the LD 50 is 5600 mg/kg. Caffeine is 192 mg/kg to compare. Huge difference. And glyphosate does not bioaccumulate and has no residual. It will bind to soil, but this doesn't affect plants growing in the soil.
I think you are fighting a losing battle.
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| 1DSoon - 2016-10-31 5:48 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 5:48 PM Just because I think you're wrong and lacking knowledge doesn't mean I think you're stupid. Why can you not provide sources? Btw, the LD 50 is 5600 mg/kg. Caffeine is 192 mg/kg to compare. Huge difference. And glyphosate does not bioaccumulate and has no residual. It will bind to soil, but this doesn't affect plants growing in the soil.
I think you are fighting a losing battle.
You are right. I don't have to believe it is safe any more than any of you have to believe it is harmful . |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-31 7:36 PM 1DSoon - 2016-10-31 5:48 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 5:48 PM Just because I think you're wrong and lacking knowledge doesn't mean I think you're stupid. Why can you not provide sources? Btw, the LD 50 is 5600 mg/kg. Caffeine is 192 mg/kg to compare. Huge difference. And glyphosate does not bioaccumulate and has no residual. It will bind to soil, but this doesn't affect plants growing in the soil. I think you are fighting a losing battle.
You are right. I don't have to believe it is safe any more than any of you have to believe it is harmful .
I admire your tenacity |
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| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 3:55 PM
You made a claim, I asked for a source so I can read it myself. I think you don't understand toxicity. Glyphosate is less toxic than things we ingest every day like caffeine and salt and vinegar. It doesn't bioaccumulate. When traces are found in harvested crops, it's in ppm or ppb. Do you understand how much you would have to eat to reach a toxic level? As a human, it would require several tons of corn in a single day.
BH USA, your lack of education is showing. RR crops were created with a process called transgenesis, horizontal gene transfer. This process does occur in nature, the sweet potato is a great example. They add a specific gene to get the desired result and then test the crap out of it to make sure it's equivalent to the original in growth and nutrition, and that there aren't any unexpected proteins that could cause allergies beyond what the original crop had.
Compare this to mutagenesis, where DNA is treated with radiation or chemicals to cause mutations until you get one you like. This is non-Gmo. It can be labeled organic. It's not tested like transgenic crops have been, and you eat food created this way quite often without ever knowing it. Which one sounds scarier?
People like you are what is wrong with the world ....
Nearly every misstatement you made can be traced to google .. duhhhhh
I suspect you may be a GMO human that has had their brain cells rearranged .
lol
When man designs something to kill something else ... he then has to lie about the consequences and long term affects on the surrounding country side and on human and animal intake. All of these idiots that work for the company or are in universities receiving grant monies to lie like a dawg about harmful products should be the first to drink a few bottles or take baths in the product to demonstrate how safe it is ... lol
When the guy that made millions on his jogging is good for you book died at the age of 52 I started reading between the lines on all the BS that is fed to the American public to make more money ... Look at all the stupid supplements people feed their horses because of some marketing spiel .... old horse is smart enough NOT to eat the crap sold even if it was found growing wild in his pasture.. lol
As Americans we have to admit we have a bunch of companies that greed is their top order of the day and will do anything to make more money and take more market share in order to make more money and to control an industry ... like Monsanto just bought the big GMO European company .... now they can poison the world and never be charged with anything due to their buying our government officials with a few measly dollars .. .. Same thing has happened with our news media thanks to dimwit Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton changing the ownership laws ...
THIS IS AN EXCELLENT SHOW AND TELL ON THE LIES BEING TOLD ON GMO AND PESTICIDE PRODUCTS ...
Higher yields with less pesticides was the sales pitch for genetically modified seeds. But that has not proved to be the outcome in the United States...
http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/doubts-raised-about-promis...
I have to laugh at the impact the last 20 years of computers, cell phones and stupid electronic devices have had on people. Everyday you see people with their heads buried in their ifons getting run over, falling off of bridges and killing other people while driving down the hiways ... Most computer and device users think they are computer smart since they bought some apps with little funny faces on them .... take their apps away and they are dumber than a bucket of dirt ... Look at your cell users ... you never see a happy person using one ... lol
and Please don't reference me when you want to make a fool of yourself with a bunch of non sense you have no idea what it means ...
and to answer your question ...
YOU SOUND SCARIER!!
Hope it is just a Halloween episode you are having ..
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | No, a big part of what's wrong with the world are people who think that because they don't understand something that no one else does either, and then feeling and perpetuating fear of that which they do not understand. You are wrong. You have no clue what you're talking about and wouldn't recognize a good source of information if it slapped you upside your crazy old head. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | PS get your facts straight. Bayer is buying Monsanto, not the other way around. That's not even science and you can't get it right. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-01 10:00 AM No, a big part of what's wrong with the world are people who think that because they don't understand something that no one else does either, and then feeling and perpetuating fear of that which they do not understand. You are wrong. You have no clue what you're talking about and wouldn't recognize a good source of information if it slapped you upside your crazy old head.
and this Lady is Gentlemen is the TRUFF
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| What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ??
COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE??
AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR??
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2016-11-01 12:49 PM
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-01 9:03 AM
PS get your facts straight. Bayer is buying Monsanto, not the other way around. That's not even science and you can't get it right.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-monsanto-bayer-deal-20160914-...
Just sayin' |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-01 12:47 PM What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ?? COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE?? AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR??
I have a Bachelor of Science in Ag Business, over 20 years experience farming and growing genetically engineered (GMO) crops, and a lifetime involved in row crop farming. I'm a board member for the Ag Council of Arkansas, and a former member of the County Conservation Board.
My husband has a Master of Science in Agronomy with an emphasis on soils, 14 years experience with the Univ of AR Division of Ag Cooperative Extension Service as a county agent for Ag and staff chair, which involved agronomy advice, research, and demos. He has 12 years of part time farming experience, and 1 year full time. He's a board member and former Chairman of the Tri-State Soybean Forum, and has presented research at several industry conferences.
My dad has a lifetime of experience farming (he's 67 and has never done anything else), has been very involved in research, and travels the country giving talks on sustainble ag and conservation practices. He is current Chairman of the Cotton State Support Committee (which directs where checkoff dollars are spent on research in the state) serves on the Cotton Inc board of directors and is a former alternate for the National Cotton Council and Cotton Board. We are involved in the Discovery Farm program, where researchers measure effects of conservation practices on fertilizer runoff and irrigation efficiency.
My FIL has a phd and is a plant pathologist with the university. My BIL has a phd in weed science and works for private industry in the midwest.
I have a made a hobby of studying GMO science and helping educate consumers on social media about modern farming practices and genetic engineering, and have access to a plethora of resources and experts. Anything I don't know, I can find out. |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-01 2:14 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-01 12:47 PM What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ?? COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE?? AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR?? I have a Bachelor of Science in Ag Business, over 20 years experience farming and growing genetically engineered (GMO) crops, and a lifetime involved in row crop farming. I'm a board member for the Ag Council of Arkansas, and a former member of the County Conservation Board.
My husband has a Master of Science in Agronomy with an emphasis on soils, 14 years experience with the Univ of AR Division of Ag Cooperative Extension Service as a county agent for Ag and staff chair, which involved agronomy advice, research, and demos. He has 12 years of part time farming experience, and 1 year full time. He's a board member and former Chairman of the Tri-State Soybean Forum, and has presented research at several industry conferences.
My dad has a lifetime of experience farming (he's 67 and has never done anything else), has been very involved in research, and travels the country giving talks on sustainble ag and conservation practices. He is current Chairman of the Cotton State Support Committee (which directs where checkoff dollars are spent on research in the state) serves on the Cotton Inc board of directors and is a former alternate for the National Cotton Council and Cotton Board. We are involved in the Discovery Farm program, where researchers measure effects of conservation practices on fertilizer runoff and irrigation efficiency.
My FIL has a phd and is a plant pathologist with the university. My BIL has a phd in weed science and works for private industry in the midwest.
I have a made a hobby of studying GMO science and helping educate consumers on social media about modern farming practices and genetic engineering, and have access to a plethora of resources and experts. Anything I don't know, I can find out.
LOL....you should have just asked BHUSA what qualifications of HIS that makes him think that he is educated on ANY subject .........  |
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 Very Important Person
Posts: 5682
Location: South MS | OMG!!! this is getting deep! ?? |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| NJJ - 2016-11-01 3:43 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-01 2:14 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-01 12:47 PM What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ?? COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE?? AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR?? I have a Bachelor of Science in Ag Business, over 20 years experience farming and growing genetically engineered (GMO) crops, and a lifetime involved in row crop farming. I'm a board member for the Ag Council of Arkansas, and a former member of the County Conservation Board.
My husband has a Master of Science in Agronomy with an emphasis on soils, 14 years experience with the Univ of AR Division of Ag Cooperative Extension Service as a county agent for Ag and staff chair, which involved agronomy advice, research, and demos. He has 12 years of part time farming experience, and 1 year full time. He's a board member and former Chairman of the Tri-State Soybean Forum, and has presented research at several industry conferences.
My dad has a lifetime of experience farming (he's 67 and has never done anything else), has been very involved in research, and travels the country giving talks on sustainble ag and conservation practices. He is current Chairman of the Cotton State Support Committee (which directs where checkoff dollars are spent on research in the state) serves on the Cotton Inc board of directors and is a former alternate for the National Cotton Council and Cotton Board. We are involved in the Discovery Farm program, where researchers measure effects of conservation practices on fertilizer runoff and irrigation efficiency.
My FIL has a phd and is a plant pathologist with the university. My BIL has a phd in weed science and works for private industry in the midwest.
I have a made a hobby of studying GMO science and helping educate consumers on social media about modern farming practices and genetic engineering, and have access to a plethora of resources and experts. Anything I don't know, I can find out.
I think he has a degree in biology from University of Houston. Better ask him though. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 504
Location: Illinois | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-01 12:47 PM What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ?? COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE?? AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR??
Wasn't really going to get into this but I have a real life M.S. in Molecular Genetics from an actual college and not Google. Hold multiple patents for genetic defects in cattle and have 12 or so defect tests licensed in US, Canada, Europe, and Australia. Does that qualify me to discuss genetics in your eyes? Three4Luck is dead on accurate on everything said. I also have experience with gene-editing and have worked on and produced a genetically edited pig. We have done the experiments, whole genome sequencing, RNA-seq, expression studies, etc.. I guess I'm just one of those lazy people collecting a salary though right?
Foreign countries ban on GMO products has nothing to do with safety, it's a political issue. In fact, there is a higher scientific consensus on GMO safety than man-made climate change. As far as Dr. Huber goes, I can't find any peer-reviewed journal articles of his work. So until that happens, I don't believe a word of it. If you have a peer-reviewed journal article with actual data that has not been retracted due to falsifying data please share because I can't find one on PubMed. Again I'm not calling you stupid either so don't take it that way, I deal with facts that can be proven not based on emotion.
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Expert
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| cruisin3 - 2016-11-01 4:07 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-01 12:47 PM What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ?? COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE?? AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR??
Wasn't really going to get into this but I have a real life M.S. in Molecular Genetics from an actual college and not Google. Hold multiple patents for genetic defects in cattle and have 12 or so defect tests licensed in US, Canada, Europe, and Australia. Does that qualify me to discuss genetics in your eyes? Three4Luck is dead on accurate on everything said. I also have experience with gene-editing and have worked on and produced a genetically edited pig. We have done the experiments, whole genome sequencing, RNA-seq, expression studies, etc.. I guess I'm just one of those lazy people collecting a salary though right?
Foreign countries ban on GMO products has nothing to do with safety, it's a political issue. In fact, there is a higher scientific consensus on GMO safety than man-made climate change. As far as Dr. Huber goes, I can't find any peer-reviewed journal articles of his work. So until that happens, I don't believe a word of it. If you have a peer-reviewed journal article with actual data that has not been retracted due to falsifying data please share because I can't find one on PubMed. Again I'm not calling you stupid either so don't take it that way, I deal with facts that can be proven not based on emotion.
I don't actually have a whole lot to say really because while a few of you have great degrees and a wide base of knowledge in gmo products you are right I do not and to be fair to me I am not out to end gmo's or stop anyone from growing or using. I said I had a run in with round up ready alfalfa which we did. Last time I checked none of you were here you did not consult with vets, scientist, researchers ect specifically on this issue. It is a poison that kills stuff so I don't think it is a far reach to say that eating it daily could possibly have side effects. We tested for everything anyone could think of the only thing that kept showing up was glysophate . I still have not had anyone take me up on the offer to eat some daily for 7-8 months like my animals did and prove to me how safe it is. I don't need anyone talking down to me about this I was in the thick of it and you were not. I have total faith in those who helped me and my horses and ultimately are the ones who made the decision on what was going on. It was not easy to make people see it but once they did they became believers and helped save the rest of my horses. I have been drug through the mud over this by more than one person but all of them were involved in gmo products or chemical companies and I totally understand defending that just like I will always defend myself on this issue. I am sorry I can't bring up all of my stuff I had on it but really it is easy to find, my old computer is down when I can get it fired up I am happy to share. I mean we all know chemical companies have never lied about the safety ! You can get a study done to prove anything you want to really not hard to do. If you feel the need to keep beating a dead horse here go ahead and if you can come up with a logical reason why all of my horses were sick and some died then shoot me a message and I will have my vets look into it. I will share all that went on with them. Feel free to keep thinking I am idiot over this I don't mind there is more going on than you know and just because you have yet to be exposed to it doesn't make it any less real.
Edited by cutnrunqhmt 2016-11-01 4:45 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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| How about we and see what the necropsy shows before we come to any hard and fast conclusions? |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| SloRide - 2016-11-01 4:45 PM
How about we and see what the necropsy shows before we come to any hard and fast conclusions?
Their insides basically were blown out from perforated ulcers. I have 25 horses I had to treat everyone for ulcers that doesn't just happen. Glysophate causes gastric issues . I only mentioned it as a caution I never said all round up ready hay was evil mine just happened to still have round up in it. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-31 3:32 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 2:45 PM
1DSoon - 2016-10-31 2:35 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-31 3:28 PM I would love to see your sources for this info. Glyphosate cannot be preventing plant growth because it doesn't work that way. At all. I can't find anyone else, hay growers or livestock people, who have had an experience like yours, and I can't find any sources saying that RR alfalfa has affected livestock negatively. you just don't know.
Well you didn't look very hard it is not hard to find. I did't mean it slows plant growth it causes growth problems in animals certainly not saying every animal. We just bought hay from a guy who stopped producing it after he lost several bulls, he is the one who told us that the producers in his area have discovered that they avoid the problems by harvesting the hay later after the bloom. I didn't save every article I read but can go find them, I also have a brother in law who is a biochemist and gave me lots of insight on it. I always find it funny people have such a hard time understanding that eating poison is bad. There is no denying my hay had round up in it we had it tested at the Montana State University. Are you saying that eating a weed killer is healthy? The facts are my hay had round up in it I realize that not all hay will have this but mine did and I fed it for 7 months so for 7 months my horses ate round up and they were sick and some died. These were healthy well taken care of animals. Just because you yourself has not had an issue or know of an issue does not mean it can not happen. I am home all the time I saw all the little things start and most people who are not around all the time would have missed that it even happened until they found them dead or suffering from a painful episode. Most of these you would have just thought the horse coliced and died but these were more than that.
Source please? I'd like to read this ....... |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 4:58 PM
SloRide - 2016-11-01 4:45 PM
How about we and see what the necropsy shows before we come to any hard and fast conclusions?
Their insides basically were blown out from perforated ulcers. I have 25 horses I had to treat everyone for ulcers that doesn't just happen. Glysophate causes gastric issues . I only mentioned it as a caution I never said all round up ready hay was evil mine just happened to still have round up in it.
Ya sure this wasn't selenium toxicity or an imbalance of another mineral?
If this was an issue with gly as you suggest, I would think there would be many, many, many more horses and livestock in similar situations ......
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Expert
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| lindseylou2290 - 2016-11-01 5:15 PM
cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 4:58 PM
SloRide - 2016-11-01 4:45 PM
How about we and see what the necropsy shows before we come to any hard and fast conclusions?
Their insides basically were blown out from perforated ulcers. I have 25 horses I had to treat everyone for ulcers that doesn't just happen. Glysophate causes gastric issues . I only mentioned it as a caution I never said all round up ready hay was evil mine just happened to still have round up in it.
Ya sure this wasn't selenium toxicity or an imbalance of another mineral?
If this was an issue with gly as you suggest, I would think there would be many, many, many more horses and livestock in similar situations ......
We tested for for nutrients and had no issues there and we are actually an area of very low selenium. My horses had no symptoms of this either. In our area I have talked to several other horse owners/breeders who had similar issues to mine several had the same hay, several lost horses as well. Those people just thought their horses had a colic episode and died until we started linking the hay to each other as well. One colt was a big fat 2yr old who looked amazing I was with him at around 8:30 pm left for an hour and he was dead when I got back. He ruptured inside, not caused by a blockage either he just blew apart inside. Gylsophate stops mineral and vitamin from being absorbed in many cases as well causing your animals to be unthrifty looking and in general not healthy. I talked to lots of people who use to raise gmo hay that no longer do because they had issues with it as well. Sometimes you have to beat the brush a little to find the answers and a lot of people get shut up. There is a huge amount of information out there and just like the other side you have to be sure of where it is coming from and not all will be true just like the other side is not always true. I am not good with words so sometimes this doesn't come out right so sorry .There are actually reports of animals having issues. Just this week I got information on a bunch of issues in Wisconsin from a vet clinic , they were comparing what I had happen. I wish I could say all of it but right now there are a few things I can't share just yet. I am hoping that soon we will be able to. I tried to explain that earlier. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 504
Location: Illinois | cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 4:42 PM
cruisin3 - 2016-11-01 4:07 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-01 12:47 PM What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ?? COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE?? AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR??
I don't actually have a whole lot to say really because while a few of you have great degrees and a wide base of knowledge in gmo products you are right I do not and to be fair to me I am not out to end gmo's or stop anyone from growing or using. I said I had a run in with round up ready alfalfa which we did. Last time I checked none of you were here you did not consult with vets, scientist, researchers ect specifically on this issue. It is a poison that kills stuff so I don't think it is a far reach to say that eating it daily could possibly have side effects. We tested for everything anyone could think of the only thing that kept showing up was glysophate . I still have not had anyone take me up on the offer to eat some daily for 7-8 months like my animals did and prove to me how safe it is. I don't need anyone talking down to me about this I was in the thick of it and you were not. I have total faith in those who helped me and my horses and ultimately are the ones who made the decision on what was going on. It was not easy to make people see it but once they did they became believers and helped save the rest of my horses. I have been drug through the mud over this by more than one person but all of them were involved in gmo products or chemical companies and I totally understand defending that just like I will always defend myself on this issue. I am sorry I can't bring up all of my stuff I had on it but really it is easy to find, my old computer is down when I can get it fired up I am happy to share. I mean we all know chemical companies have never lied about the safety ! You can get a study done to prove anything you want to really not hard to do. If you feel the need to keep beating a dead horse here go ahead and if you can come up with a logical reason why all of my horses were sick and some died then shoot me a message and I will have my vets look into it. I will share all that went on with them. Feel free to keep thinking I am idiot over this I don't mind there is more going on than you know and just because you have yet to be exposed to it doesn't make it any less real.
The first part of my post was not directed to you and please know I truly am sorry you lost your horse.
Not once did anyone call you stupid or an idiot! What happens is when you say something that contradicts 10+ years of peer reviewed studies, people ask questions and want facts. I am a scientist that's how my brain works. So I was again unable to find any peer reviewed journal articles with this research. So is the group going to publish the results and have the data peer reviewed?
My only issue is with the professor you mentioned, he's made outrageous claims in he pat and been called out on them with no response or provided actual reproducible data. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I just started to read about round up ready alfalfa so I have a question-
The alfalfa is modified to be unaffected by the Round Up that is sprayed on the weeds in the alfalfa field do that the weeds die but the alfalfa is allowed to grow in unimpeded by weeds. Is that right? |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| GLP - 2016-11-01 6:26 PM
I just started to read about round up ready alfalfa so I have a question-
The alfalfa is modified to be unaffected by the Round Up that is sprayed on the weeds in the alfalfa field do that the weeds die but the alfalfa is allowed to grow in unimpeded by weeds. Is that right?
That is right. Most of the time it is not an issue and everyone on here believes it is never an issue but certain things can lead to it staying in the plant and then is in the harvested plant. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-01 2:14 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-01 12:47 PM What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ?? COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE?? AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR??
I have a Bachelor of Science in Ag Business, over 20 years experience farming and growing genetically engineered (GMO) crops, and a lifetime involved in row crop farming. I'm a board member for the Ag Council of Arkansas, and a former member of the County Conservation Board.
My husband has a Master of Science in Agronomy with an emphasis on soils, 14 years experience with the Univ of AR Division of Ag Cooperative Extension Service as a county agent for Ag and staff chair, which involved agronomy advice, research, and demos. He has 12 years of part time farming experience, and 1 year full time. He's a board member and former Chairman of the Tri-State Soybean Forum, and has presented research at several industry conferences.
My dad has a lifetime of experience farming (he's 67 and has never done anything else), has been very involved in research, and travels the country giving talks on sustainble ag and conservation practices. He is current Chairman of the Cotton State Support Committee (which directs where checkoff dollars are spent on research in the state) serves on the Cotton Inc board of directors and is a former alternate for the National Cotton Council and Cotton Board. We are involved in the Discovery Farm program, where researchers measure effects of conservation practices on fertilizer runoff and irrigation efficiency.
My FIL has a phd and is a plant pathologist with the university. My BIL has a phd in weed science and works for private industry in the midwest.
I have a made a hobby of studying GMO science and helping educate consumers on social media about modern farming practices and genetic engineering, and have access to a plethora of resources and experts. Anything I don't know, I can find out.
Plus she went to school on a scholarship and EARNED her degree. I have much respect for you T4L. I have learned so much from you on these type things since getting on this forum---and I've been in a farming family for over 47 years. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 4:58 PM
SloRide - 2016-11-01 4:45 PM
How about we and see what the necropsy shows before we come to any hard and fast conclusions?
Their insides basically were blown out from perforated ulcers. I have 25 horses I had to treat everyone for ulcers that doesn't just happen. Glysophate causes gastric issues . I only mentioned it as a caution I never said all round up ready hay was evil mine just happened to still have round up in it.
No matter what the cause of this, I am so sorry you and your horses went thru it. I can't imagine the horror |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 8:17 PM
GLP - 2016-11-01 6:26 PM
I just started to read about round up ready alfalfa so I have a question-
The alfalfa is modified to be unaffected by the Round Up that is sprayed on the weeds in the alfalfa field do that the weeds die but the alfalfa is allowed to grow in unimpeded by weeds. Is that right?
That is right. Most of the time it is not an issue and everyone on here believes it is never an issue but certain things can lead to it staying in the plant and then is in the harvested plant.
Another question- does the GM alfalfa absorb the Round Up just like the weeds do, but the GM alfalfa can't be killed by the Round Up, or does the genetic modification make it so the alfalfa doesn't absorb the Round Up? |
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| Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-01 2:14 PM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-01 12:47 PM What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ?? COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE?? AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR??
I have a Bachelor of Science in Ag Business, over 20 years experience farming and growing genetically engineered (GMO) crops, and a lifetime involved in row crop farming. I'm a board member for the Ag Council of Arkansas, and a former member of the County Conservation Board.
My husband has a Master of Science in Agronomy with an emphasis on soils, 14 years experience with the Univ of AR Division of Ag Cooperative Extension Service as a county agent for Ag and staff chair, which involved agronomy advice, research, and demos. He has 12 years of part time farming experience, and 1 year full time. He's a board member and former Chairman of the Tri-State Soybean Forum, and has presented research at several industry conferences.
My dad has a lifetime of experience farming (he's 67 and has never done anything else), has been very involved in research, and travels the country giving talks on sustainble ag and conservation practices. He is current Chairman of the Cotton State Support Committee (which directs where checkoff dollars are spent on research in the state) serves on the Cotton Inc board of directors and is a former alternate for the National Cotton Council and Cotton Board. We are involved in the Discovery Farm program, where researchers measure effects of conservation practices on fertilizer runoff and irrigation efficiency.
My FIL has a phd and is a plant pathologist with the university. My BIL has a phd in weed science and works for private industry in the midwest.
I have a made a hobby of studying GMO science and helping educate consumers on social media about modern farming practices and genetic engineering, and have access to a plethora of resources and experts. Anything I don't know, I can find out.
Just what I figured ... not a one of you are successful full time farmers or millionaires with all those smarts ...
I'm like Trump on McCain vs the ones that did not get captured ..
Don't show me a bunch of titles from little elite groups that trade around giving each other titles and working your political company and government jobs for a living while supporting dangerous chemicals and messing with real live Frankenstein plants that will crossover and affect food supplies around the world for years to come ....
I like the natural order of living things without a bunch of kooks messing with the unknown behind closed doors and then spending millions of dollars and jillions of lies trying to convince people with common sense that you have come to save them ... lol
It astounds me that Americans sit back and allow kooks to use them as experimental animals by entities out to make huge profits for themselves and to hell with the long term affects the exposure may have on themselves and genetic infusions crippling generations in the future .... all for greed, money and control of food sources ... it is like having one portapotty for fans at the super bowl .. lol
You can spew your facist ideals all you want to but it does not change the facts that God created a perfect balanced predator and prey sequence for both plants and animals and there will be serious consequences when man tries to change the natural chain of events for the all mighty dollar.
There are no real benefits or proof of GMO increasing crop yields etc etc ..... all that is happening is control of the seed market with GMO seeds that contaminate surrounding plant life and breaks the chain of plants, insects and animals feeding off of each other that allows all to survive and to control each others numbers in a natural state.
The freaky thing is the continuing sterilization of the soil and increased chemical retention which requires more fertilizers and stronger more weird chemicals to control weeds that has no ending cycles ... while affecting the surrounding environment ... it is a shame no one is in jail ..
It is going to be interesting to see what St Peter sez to all of you Monsanto people when you show up carrying your bags of poison seeds and your bug and weed sprayers strapped to your backs ...
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-02 1:52 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-01 2:14 PM BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-11-01 12:47 PM What are your qualifications to call yourself EDUCATED ?? COLLEGE YOU GRADUATED FROM AND MAJOR AND MINOR FOR A DEGREE?? AND THE PRESENT position YOU HOLD IN THE COMPANY YOU WORK FOR?? I have a Bachelor of Science in Ag Business, over 20 years experience farming and growing genetically engineered (GMO) crops, and a lifetime involved in row crop farming. I'm a board member for the Ag Council of Arkansas, and a former member of the County Conservation Board.
My husband has a Master of Science in Agronomy with an emphasis on soils, 14 years experience with the Univ of AR Division of Ag Cooperative Extension Service as a county agent for Ag and staff chair, which involved agronomy advice, research, and demos. He has 12 years of part time farming experience, and 1 year full time. He's a board member and former Chairman of the Tri-State Soybean Forum, and has presented research at several industry conferences.
My dad has a lifetime of experience farming (he's 67 and has never done anything else), has been very involved in research, and travels the country giving talks on sustainble ag and conservation practices. He is current Chairman of the Cotton State Support Committee (which directs where checkoff dollars are spent on research in the state) serves on the Cotton Inc board of directors and is a former alternate for the National Cotton Council and Cotton Board. We are involved in the Discovery Farm program, where researchers measure effects of conservation practices on fertilizer runoff and irrigation efficiency.
My FIL has a phd and is a plant pathologist with the university. My BIL has a phd in weed science and works for private industry in the midwest.
I have a made a hobby of studying GMO science and helping educate consumers on social media about modern farming practices and genetic engineering, and have access to a plethora of resources and experts. Anything I don't know, I can find out. Just what I figured ... not a one of you are successful full time farmers or millionaires with all those smarts ... I'm like Trump on McCain vs the ones that did not get captured .. Don't show me a bunch of titles from little elite groups that trade around giving each other titles and working your political company and government jobs for a living while supporting dangerous chemicals and messing with real live Frankenstein plants that will crossover and affect food supplies around the world for years to come .... I like the natural order of living things without a bunch of kooks messing with the unknown behind closed doors and then spending millions of dollars and jillions of lies trying to convince people with common sense that you have come to save them ... lol It astounds me that Americans sit back and allow kooks to use them as experimental animals by entities out to make huge profits for themselves and to hell with the long term affects the exposure may have on themselves and genetic infusions crippling generations in the future .... all for greed, money and control of food sources ... it is like having one portapotty for fans at the super bowl .. lol You can spew your facist ideals all you want to but it does not change the facts that God created a perfect balanced predator and prey sequence for both plants and animals and there will be serious consequences when man tries to change the natural chain of events for the all mighty dollar. There are no real benefits or proof of GMO increasing crop yields etc etc ..... all that is happening is control of the seed market with GMO seeds that contaminate surrounding plant life and breaks the chain of plants, insects and animals feeding off of each other that allows all to survive and to control each others numbers in a natural state. The freaky thing is the continuing sterilization of the soil and increased chemical retention which requires more fertilizers and stronger more weird chemicals to control weeds that has no ending cycles ... while affecting the surrounding environment ... it is a shame no one is in jail .. It is going to be interesting to see what St Peter sez to all of you Monsanto people when you show up carrying your bags of poison seeds and your bug and weed sprayers strapped to your backs ...
You obviously cannot read for comprehension.  |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | GLP - 2016-11-01 9:16 PM cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 8:17 PM GLP - 2016-11-01 6:26 PM I just started to read about round up ready alfalfa so I have a question- The alfalfa is modified to be unaffected by the Round Up that is sprayed on the weeds in the alfalfa field do that the weeds die but the alfalfa is allowed to grow in unimpeded by weeds. Is that right? That is right. Most of the time it is not an issue and everyone on here believes it is never an issue but certain things can lead to it staying in the plant and then is in the harvested plant. Another question- does the GM alfalfa absorb the Round Up just like the weeds do, but the GM alfalfa can't be killed by the Round Up, or does the genetic modification make it so the alfalfa doesn't absorb the Round Up?
Glyphosate is metabolized by the plant and broken down into non-toxic components. I dont remember what exactly is breaks down into, but I can find out. The way it works is it inhibits a specific photosynthesis pathway. Plants that are modified or have naturally adapted to be resistant have another photosynthesis pathway available to them when that one is blocked. |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 5:30 PM
lindseylou2290 - 2016-11-01 5:15 PM
cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 4:58 PM
SloRide - 2016-11-01 4:45 PM
How about we and see what the necropsy shows before we come to any hard and fast conclusions?
Their insides basically were blown out from perforated ulcers. I have 25 horses I had to treat everyone for ulcers that doesn't just happen. Glysophate causes gastric issues . I only mentioned it as a caution I never said all round up ready hay was evil mine just happened to still have round up in it.
Ya sure this wasn't selenium toxicity or an imbalance of another mineral?
If this was an issue with gly as you suggest, I would think there would be many, many, many more horses and livestock in similar situations ......
We tested for for nutrients and had no issues there and we are actually an area of very low selenium. My horses had no symptoms of this either. In our area I have talked to several other horse owners/breeders who had similar issues to mine several had the same hay, several lost horses as well. Those people just thought their horses had a colic episode and died until we started linking the hay to each other as well. One colt was a big fat 2yr old who looked amazing I was with him at around 8:30 pm left for an hour and he was dead when I got back. He ruptured inside, not caused by a blockage either he just blew apart inside. Gylsophate stops mineral and vitamin from being absorbed in many cases as well causing your animals to be unthrifty looking and in general not healthy. I talked to lots of people who use to raise gmo hay that no longer do because they had issues with it as well. Sometimes you have to beat the brush a little to find the answers and a lot of people get shut up. There is a huge amount of information out there and just like the other side you have to be sure of where it is coming from and not all will be true just like the other side is not always true. I am not good with words so sometimes this doesn't come out right so sorry .There are actually reports of animals having issues. Just this week I got information on a bunch of issues in Wisconsin from a vet clinic , they were comparing what I had happen. I wish I could say all of it but right now there are a few things I can't share just yet. I am hoping that soon we will be able to. I tried to explain that earlier.
Interesting - did anyone look for Blister Beetles? That would explain the ulcerations and quick death instances too ...
I will find it interesting if/when they publish and where this may be submitted too .... |
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| Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-02 12:28 PM
GLP - 2016-11-01 9:16 PM cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 8:17 PM GLP - 2016-11-01 6:26 PM I just started to read about round up ready alfalfa so I have a question- The alfalfa is modified to be unaffected by the Round Up that is sprayed on the weeds in the alfalfa field do that the weeds die but the alfalfa is allowed to grow in unimpeded by weeds. Is that right? That is right. Most of the time it is not an issue and everyone on here believes it is never an issue but certain things can lead to it staying in the plant and then is in the harvested plant. Another question- does the GM alfalfa absorb the Round Up just like the weeds do, but the GM alfalfa can't be killed by the Round Up, or does the genetic modification make it so the alfalfa doesn't absorb the Round Up?
What if the round up is not used as directed, is there ever an amount that the "resistant" plants, not be able to synthesis? Or is that a dumb question..... |
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Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | FlyingJT - 2016-11-02 12:49 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-02 12:28 PM GLP - 2016-11-01 9:16 PM cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 8:17 PM GLP - 2016-11-01 6:26 PM I just started to read about round up ready alfalfa so I have a question- The alfalfa is modified to be unaffected by the Round Up that is sprayed on the weeds in the alfalfa field do that the weeds die but the alfalfa is allowed to grow in unimpeded by weeds. Is that right? That is right. Most of the time it is not an issue and everyone on here believes it is never an issue but certain things can lead to it staying in the plant and then is in the harvested plant. Another question- does the GM alfalfa absorb the Round Up just like the weeds do, but the GM alfalfa can't be killed by the Round Up, or does the genetic modification make it so the alfalfa doesn't absorb the Round Up? What if the round up is not used as directed, is there ever an amount that the "resistant" plants, not be able to synthesis? Or is that a dumb question.....
Edited by Three 4 Luck 2016-11-02 1:18 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| FlyingJT - 2016-11-02 12:49 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-02 12:28 PM
GLP - 2016-11-01 9:16 PM cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 8:17 PM GLP - 2016-11-01 6:26 PM I just started to read about round up ready alfalfa so I have a question- The alfalfa is modified to be unaffected by the Round Up that is sprayed on the weeds in the alfalfa field do that the weeds die but the alfalfa is allowed to grow in unimpeded by weeds. Is that right? That is right. Most of the time it is not an issue and everyone on here believes it is never an issue but certain things can lead to it staying in the plant and then is in the harvested plant. Another question- does the GM alfalfa absorb the Round Up just like the weeds do, but the GM alfalfa can't be killed by the Round Up, or does the genetic modification make it so the alfalfa doesn't absorb the Round Up?
What if the round up is not used as directed, is there ever an amount that the "resistant" plants, not be able to synthesis? Or is that a dumb question.....
You can slather it on pretty good and "burn" a field so that the plants turn a bit yellow but as long as they have the insert correct, they will not die.
Roundup resistance in weeds is actually from incorrect application more than anything else - either too little was applied or the plants were sprayed at the wrong time (like when they are dormant during the hot part of the day). Plants evolve survival capabilities pretty quickly, just like antibiotic resistant bacteria. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | lindseylou2290 - 2016-11-02 1:20 PM FlyingJT - 2016-11-02 12:49 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-02 12:28 PM GLP - 2016-11-01 9:16 PM cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 8:17 PM GLP - 2016-11-01 6:26 PM I just started to read about round up ready alfalfa so I have a question- The alfalfa is modified to be unaffected by the Round Up that is sprayed on the weeds in the alfalfa field do that the weeds die but the alfalfa is allowed to grow in unimpeded by weeds. Is that right? That is right. Most of the time it is not an issue and everyone on here believes it is never an issue but certain things can lead to it staying in the plant and then is in the harvested plant. Another question- does the GM alfalfa absorb the Round Up just like the weeds do, but the GM alfalfa can't be killed by the Round Up, or does the genetic modification make it so the alfalfa doesn't absorb the Round Up? What if the round up is not used as directed, is there ever an amount that the "resistant" plants, not be able to synthesis? Or is that a dumb question..... You can slather it on pretty good and "burn" a field so that the plants turn a bit yellow but as long as they have the insert correct, they will not die. Roundup resistance in weeds is actually from incorrect application more than anything else - either too little was applied or the plants were sprayed at the wrong time (like when they are dormant during the hot part of the day ). Plants evolve survival capabilities pretty quickly, just like antibiotic resistant bacteria.
Or your neighbors cultivated a seed bank and shared it with you. |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| lindseylou2290 - 2016-11-02 12:43 PM
cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 5:30 PM
lindseylou2290 - 2016-11-01 5:15 PM
cutnrunqhmt - 2016-11-01 4:58 PM
SloRide - 2016-11-01 4:45 PM
How about we and see what the necropsy shows before we come to any hard and fast conclusions?
Their insides basically were blown out from perforated ulcers. I have 25 horses I had to treat everyone for ulcers that doesn't just happen. Glysophate causes gastric issues . I only mentioned it as a caution I never said all round up ready hay was evil mine just happened to still have round up in it.
Ya sure this wasn't selenium toxicity or an imbalance of another mineral?
If this was an issue with gly as you suggest, I would think there would be many, many, many more horses and livestock in similar situations ......
We tested for for nutrients and had no issues there and we are actually an area of very low selenium. My horses had no symptoms of this either. In our area I have talked to several other horse owners/breeders who had similar issues to mine several had the same hay, several lost horses as well. Those people just thought their horses had a colic episode and died until we started linking the hay to each other as well. One colt was a big fat 2yr old who looked amazing I was with him at around 8:30 pm left for an hour and he was dead when I got back. He ruptured inside, not caused by a blockage either he just blew apart inside. Gylsophate stops mineral and vitamin from being absorbed in many cases as well causing your animals to be unthrifty looking and in general not healthy. I talked to lots of people who use to raise gmo hay that no longer do because they had issues with it as well. Sometimes you have to beat the brush a little to find the answers and a lot of people get shut up. There is a huge amount of information out there and just like the other side you have to be sure of where it is coming from and not all will be true just like the other side is not always true. I am not good with words so sometimes this doesn't come out right so sorry .There are actually reports of animals having issues. Just this week I got information on a bunch of issues in Wisconsin from a vet clinic , they were comparing what I had happen. I wish I could say all of it but right now there are a few things I can't share just yet. I am hoping that soon we will be able to. I tried to explain that earlier.
Interesting - did anyone look for Blister Beetles? That would explain the ulcerations and quick death instances too ...
I will find it interesting if/when they publish and where this may be submitted too ....
we do not have blister beetles here. |
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Posts: 1481
Location: TEXAS | We are all speculating .... None of us will know for sure what happened.... I hope she had a necropsy and tissue samples were sent to a lab to either prove or disprove her her accusations.... I watched the video as many did of that poor horse suffering in that stall.. It was very emotional to watch since I just lost one to colic... If it wasn't the feed I hope she finds it in her heart to retract her claims of the feed being the cause. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | that wass my question to.. blister beetles.... hay is shipped in.. |
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boon
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| Please please keep us informed if anyone sees the autopsy results on here. |
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Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | DebK32 - 2016-11-21 1:38 PM
Please please keep us informed if anyone sees the autopsy results on here.
Kayla Keith posted this update on her status about the pregnant mare that died. She had a necropsy done.
"The results are inconclusive. They said its rare to not know the cause of death especially with how strong her neurological symptoms were. They did say it is not infectious. That's all I know right now." |
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