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 Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. I'm a learning barrel racer from Kansas and have been training my mare to barrel race this year. Her name is Star, she's a 7yo QH mare. I took her to a show Saturday and entered her in barrel racing. In my eyes, we had a great run, probably our best yet! However, some people think she's lame. She shows no signs of being lame to me. She did other events and even jumped over logs that same day and never once felt off. I rode her today and she didn't feel off, she doesn't look off, nor does she act like she's hurting. My guess is we just need to work more on getting her to use her body correctly around the barrels. I may also have a chiropractor come adjust her.
Here is the video from our run. She did buck at the beginning and crowhop to the first barrel because she was being a brat and buddy sour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q96TZHK-nHI
Edited by kansasbarrelracer 2016-11-01 6:04 PM
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
 
| I'm so glad you are trying to take care of your horse! Great job!
I am like others and see a lot of soreness in the rear end. I would ask a really good barrel racer where she vets, and take your horse in to that same vet. When you get there, ask for a full lameness exam.
Be prepared for a vet bill of several hundred to get everything done and get her road worthy again.
I'm willing to bet big money that with some vet care, a lot of the sourness and bratty behavior goes away, and that you find it a lot easier to get faster, smoother runs from her.
I know it's hard to feel like you should spend that type of money, but be sure to remember that these animals shouldn't have to be in pain for our good time.
She sure is a pretty mare, and I think that you both show a ton of potential! |
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| Beautiful mare!!! To me she also looks sore. What makes me think this is the tail swishing, and how her two back legs don't every really move up under herself in any of her movements. It seems like she wants to move correctly, but can't so she shakes her head a bit in frustration. Looks like she has a great work ethic. If it were me I would have a flex test done and x rays. There is a moment or two where it also looks like she crossfires, which can make for a rough ride. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Just wanted to say welcome and definitely get the vet to line you and her out. I love me a black horse!!! |
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | Thanks everyone! My vet does acupuncture and I was just reading on their website that the session starts with an exam, which may include a lameness exam. Should we try that out and possibly acupuncture? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-01 8:34 PM
Thanks everyone! My vet does acupuncture and I was just reading on their website that the session starts with an exam, which may include a lameness exam. Should we try that out and possibly acupuncture?
Absolutely start with a thorough lameness exam - that's a great idea! Good for you for taking the initiative. I also see stiffness in the hind end and I'd almost guarantee if you get her checked out and fixed up she'll feel a whole lot better to ride. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | You ride your mare very well, but I do see an issue in her hindend too.. Shes a nice mare hope that you get this all ironed out, so you can keep having fun with her.. |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | She looks OK to me. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I watched your Carrot race video, now that was really cute, lol..Your dad sounds like a really proud Papa..  |
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Location: Illinois | She's a cute mare! She is off on the back end so just like everyone else said have a vet do a full lameness exam and then go on from there! Good luck girl! |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7264
| Sore in the rear - might even be an ovary thing. |
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 The Comeback Kid
Posts: 1564
Location: lost in missouri | The tail wringing and not moving up underneath herself are dead giveaways she is sore. I agree with Griz it could also be a female issue as my mare gets very ouchy around that time of the month and doesnt use herself properly and swishes her tail, but once it is over that time of the month she is back to using herself and doing her thing. the short stride behind though also makes me think she could be sore in her hocks or her lumbro sacral joint |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | she's sore somewhere, and I noticed you posted another video named "star bites me".....definite give away something is sore especially if she's trying to bite you when you are saddling her |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 425
Location: California | I agree with the other comments above. She does look off on her hind end. It's like she just can't seem to get the correct lead on her hind end. So she crossfires which can make for a very uncomfortable ride. The reason they would do that is most likely from being sore. She could be sore in only that movement, which might mean she doesnt exactly show up as being lame on a regular walk/trot. I would show the vet this video. It could be a simple fix!
Edited by ccarpe18 2016-11-02 9:39 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| My mare will toss her tail around like that when she is in heat too. Have a vet out to double check her just in case. I have thought about giving my mare a little Bute when she is in season. As a lady myself I can imagine the kind of discomfort she could be in. Check saddle fit too. Hard to tell from the video but it looks like it doesn't fit well.
Edited by SloRide 2016-11-02 10:01 AM
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | Thanks guys for your opinions! She been having a "saddling" problem where when I put the saddle on, she gets a worried look and pins her ears. This has been going on for a few weeks and she is still the same but a little better about it. I've thought about her being in heat or saddle fit but doubt that is it. She's never acted like this before and she's been ridden in the same tack since I've had her with no issues until now. I'll talk to my dad about it and get the vet out to do a lameness exam and go from there. I definitely see her "bunny hopping" around the barrel now. |
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | Update: Called the vet and scheduled an appointment for Tuesday. Really hoping it's nothing too serious. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Just wanted to reach out and say good luck and welcome to the board from another KS resident |
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  Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-03 11:30 AM Update: Called the vet and scheduled an appointment for Tuesday. Really hoping it's nothing too serious.
Please let us know what the vet has to say. And yes, let's hope it's nothing serious. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | In the 3rd video down of you in the indoor pen she's most definitely not using that inside hind leg at all, she's kind of hopping around on it and holding it up and off the ground as much as she can to avoid using it. My first thought would be hock, stifle, hip.....of course hocks get blamed for a lot but the fact that it's that inside hind that's the worst when turning would make me think hocks. Could be ovaries but I've found my mare who had a cyst only wagged her tail really bad, it never effected her hind end quite that extensively.
The video of her biting you: you can def tell shes very apprehensive about you putting the saddle on her, starting with the pad. If you get the issue fixed soon that may change but if not she will never enjoy riding and it can get worse or take the fun out of it! She seems like a very willing horse that's trying to please you but riding through the pain which most of them do!
Ps- I admire your patience with her as some of the younger generation would not be quite as calm with her especially after a bite...me personally would have smacked my mare right Away (on neck or side not head) but you have to pick your battles
I hope for the best and good results! Keep us updated for sure, you're on the right track!
Edited by RnRJack 2016-11-03 1:19 PM
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IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| Keep us posted!! She really does look nice!!! I bet it is not anything major, likely just a maintenance thing! |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | pretty mare.. ask for a full lameness exam by a knowledgable horse vet.. hocks would be my guess.. good luck |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7264
| Let us know what the vet says! |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Griz - 2016-11-04 5:27 AM
Let us know what the vet says!
Do we know anything yet? Or was it for next Tuesday? |
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3310
Location: Jersey Girl | I like your mare!
I see tail wringing to mean they are uncomfortable with something or sore. Def take her to a good vet and have her checked out. Also make sure your saddle is fitting her too. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 794
| Have her ovaries checked some times when they hump up like that and flip the tail that is an indication the ovaries are giving them some problems. |
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | It is this coming Tuesday, the 8th. My vet is very knowledgeable, she also does acupuncture so if Star is just sore and needs chiro/acupuncture, she could do it. :) |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Make sure and let us know what you find out. . . . |
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Location: in the ozone | Just another thing to throw out there - the "bunny hopping" and very sensitive to saddle and/or pad COULD be PSSM symptoms. Many people think PSSM is only "tying up" - it is so much more. Are you on Facebook too? If so, go to the FB page "PSSM Forum" and ask to join. If your mare is registered, some on there can also help you by seeing her breeding if she has bloodlines that have a lot of problems w/the PSSM. |
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | The vet visit went great! Started out by examining Star, feeling her legs and her back. One thing the vet noticed is she was more tense on her right side when the vet pressed down on her back. Then one of the techs lunged Star at a trot and canter both directions, and then they did a series of flexion tests and trotted her down a concrete pad. After she did one test, flexing the hock area, it was noticeable Star was off when she trotted off - you could hear it too! So, the verdict is, Star is sore in her hocks. More sore on her right hind than the left hind. The back soreness is due to her hocks being sore and she had to do something to carry herself better, which resulted in her back getting sore. Which is more than likely the reason why she'd get worried and everything about the saddle being put on.
So the vet suggested we put her on a joint supplement to help. She mentioned hock injections but she doesn't think Star needs them and that it would be pointless to give her some now with winter coming, and Star won't be ridden as much. Other alternatives include chiropractic work, acupuncture, or massage. She also suggested I do stretches before/after rides and showed me how to massage her back. I'm willing to do the joint supplements now and see how they work for her. The vet recommended a few brands like Cosequin, Platinum Performance CJ, Prime Performance HA, Cortiflex, and even feed store brand as long as it had certain ingredients. Those brands are so expensive though! I'm looking at SmartPak's supplements and found these two. Star is ridden 2-3 times a week and I wouldn't say she does intense work. Typically we go on trail rides and do a bit of trotting and cantering, or if we do arena work it's not too strenuous unless we're doing barrels or drills. Right now, I think we'll stay off barrels for a while, focus on getting her feeling better and work on drills, exercises, etc.
Two supplements I'm looking at..
https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/b/7183
https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/b/7184 |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | Just remember, there is only one way to get the inflammation out of the joint. Injections. If they are sore at all, they need them, seems odd to me a vet would say they didn't need them when they flexed lame on exam. Time off won't really help, as soon as you start running her again, within a run or two she will be sore again. If you plan to run her at all this winter, you should have had the injections. Most oral joint supplements don't get past the gut to even get to the joint, so most are wasted money. If it were my horse, I would have had the injections, then put her on an injectable joint supplemnt to help the injections last longer.
Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2016-11-08 1:42 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Look into doing injectable joint supps. It costs about $40 a month, IM, and you don't have to worry about if she eats it all. I also think they work a little better.
In the long run, it would probably be cheaper to inject the joint than use supplements, you probably could get by with every 6 months or even once a year.
Do the math on monthly expense for supplements compared to the injection. |
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | I will not be running her again for the rest of the year. Possibly every now and then, take her through the pattern but nothing too serious and no competitions. The vet suggested we not do injections now because I won't be racing or doing hard work with winter coming, and Star may sit for a week or two and not be ridden depending on how cold it is. So doing the injections now is pointless. As for injectable joint supplements, those are SO expensive. $300, for Adequan, just for SEVEN shots. And I'm sure other brands aren't much less cheaper. I really can't afford to pay $300 for a month's worth of joint supplements. And there's mixed opinions on oral and injectable, good and bad for both. My vet uses oral supplements, and injectable ones too, so if it didn't work, I doubt she'd suggest it. |
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IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| So happy to hear you got some answers. My vet has also advised to use oral supplements first as there is controversy in the vet world in once you inject how it affects the horse long term. He tends to go along the lines of start with the most conservative then work your way up if you have to. The high quality joint supplements do cost money, but it is because they are worth it. I strongly recommend Equithrive Joint. You may get sticker shock, but has the best reviews. People claim they could even stop injecting after using this supplement. We used it with great success. It uses a newer technology called resveratrol that shows a lot of success.
https://equithrive.com |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-08 3:09 PM I will not be running her again for the rest of the year. Possibly every now and then, take her through the pattern but nothing too serious and no competitions. The vet suggested we not do injections now because I won't be racing or doing hard work with winter coming, and Star may sit for a week or two and not be ridden depending on how cold it is. So doing the injections now is pointless. As for injectable joint supplements, those are SO expensive. $300, for Adequan, just for SEVEN shots. And I'm sure other brands aren't much less cheaper. I really can't afford to pay $300 for a month's worth of joint supplements. And there's mixed opinions on oral and injectable, good and bad for both. My vet uses oral supplements, and injectable ones too, so if it didn't work, I doubt she'd suggest it.
no difference of opinions.
Oral supplements do not work.
Save your money buy a round of adequan or pentosan
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | 1DSoon - 2016-11-08 2:48 PM kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-08 3:09 PM I will not be running her again for the rest of the year. Possibly every now and then, take her through the pattern but nothing too serious and no competitions. The vet suggested we not do injections now because I won't be racing or doing hard work with winter coming, and Star may sit for a week or two and not be ridden depending on how cold it is. So doing the injections now is pointless. As for injectable joint supplements, those are SO expensive. $300, for Adequan, just for SEVEN shots. And I'm sure other brands aren't much less cheaper. I really can't afford to pay $300 for a month's worth of joint supplements. And there's mixed opinions on oral and injectable, good and bad for both. My vet uses oral supplements, and injectable ones too, so if it didn't work, I doubt she'd suggest it. no difference of opinions.
Oral supplements do not work.
Save your money buy a round of adequan or pentosan
What 1D said.
And to expand on that, Adequan isn't really $300 for one month. Yes, it is $300 for the series but you do not do it every month. Most that I talk to do it 2x a year or do the loading dose and then 1 shot every other week after that. So say $50 per month cost to do something that really makes a difference, you will spend more than that on a feed through so if you are going to pick one or the other go with the proven choice. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-08 2:09 PM I will not be running her again for the rest of the year. Possibly every now and then, take her through the pattern but nothing too serious and no competitions. The vet suggested we not do injections now because I won't be racing or doing hard work with winter coming, and Star may sit for a week or two and not be ridden depending on how cold it is. So doing the injections now is pointless. As for injectable joint supplements, those are SO expensive. $300, for Adequan, just for SEVEN shots. And I'm sure other brands aren't much less cheaper. I really can't afford to pay $300 for a month's worth of joint supplements. And there's mixed opinions on oral and injectable, good and bad for both. My vet uses oral supplements, and injectable ones too, so if it didn't work, I doubt she'd suggest it.
Keep in mind that those 7 shots are for a loading dose.
There is some controvery right now on what is the "right" way to do Adequan. Some vets (and some research) indicates you should do two loading doses per year, one in the spring and one in the fall (for example). Other vets say that research is not concrete and continue to recommend the "old" way of dosing Adequan where you start with the 7-shot loading dose, and then give one shot per month after that.
For my horse, that is what both of my lameness vets have suggested so that is what we do. He's already had the loading dose, so I just keep giving one shot a month to maintain.
Understandable if you cannot afford both feed-through supplements and injectable supplements. If I had to choose one of them, I would absolutely choose the injectable. Hands down!
Pentosan is a cheaper off-label alternative to try besides Adequan. Some horses respond better to pentosan; some are better on adequan. Like anything, it's trial and error.
I agree to wait to do injections until the spring (you'll want to take x-rays of her hocks too, if that was not done today), but then make sure to only do straight lines and very large circles until then, when you do ride her. No small circles; meaning no pattern work unless you are only walking.
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | I decided to try an oral joint supplement. I'm going with SmartFlex III Resilience by SmartPak. Excited to try this and see how well it works for her. I'll also be doing stretches and stuff with her as well. Hoping to go for a nice little ride Thursday :) |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | Good call |
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 I Want a "MAN"
Posts: 3610
Location: MD | kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-08 10:50 PM I decided to try an oral joint supplement. I'm going with SmartFlex III Resilience by SmartPak. Excited to try this and see how well it works for her. I'll also be doing stretches and stuff with her as well. Hoping to go for a nice little ride Thursday :)
This isn't going to help your horse at all. Sorry to burst your bubble. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-08 2:09 PM
I will not be running her again for the rest of the year. Possibly every now and then, take her through the pattern but nothing too serious and no competitions. The vet suggested we not do injections now because I won't be racing or doing hard work with winter coming, and Star may sit for a week or two and not be ridden depending on how cold it is. So doing the injections now is pointless. As for injectable joint supplements, those are SO expensive. $300, for Adequan, just for SEVEN shots. And I'm sure other brands aren't much less cheaper. I really can't afford to pay $300 for a month's worth of joint supplements. And there's mixed opinions on oral and injectable, good and bad for both. My vet uses oral supplements, and injectable ones too, so if it didn't work, I doubt she'd suggest it.
If you aren't going to inject, I wouldn't even do the barrel pattern. The hocks will still hurt, they will hurt her even with trail riding.
You need to get X-rays of the hocks to actually see what you are dealing with. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 634
| CE's wrapn3 - 2016-11-09 7:33 AM
kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-08 10:50 PM I decided to try an oral joint supplement. I'm going with SmartFlex III Resilience by SmartPak. Excited to try this and see how well it works for her. I'll also be doing stretches and stuff with her as well. Hoping to go for a nice little ride Thursday :)
This isn't going to help your horse at all. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Ditto. Injections and get an injectable joint supplement. Feed through supplements are a waste of money. Period. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-08 10:50 PM I decided to try an oral joint supplement. I'm going with SmartFlex III Resilience by SmartPak. Excited to try this and see how well it works for her. I'll also be doing stretches and stuff with her as well. Hoping to go for a nice little ride Thursday :)
For the upcoming winter (with no barrel racing), this is probably fine. Remember, no pattern work. Only ride in straight lines, or in very large circles.
But in the spring, when you are ready to do barrels again, it will not be enough. But you can address it then. (1) Get x-rays. See what you are dealing with. (2) Most likely, inject.
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | Very pretty mare, I think she looks sore though, too. If you aren't getting her injected right now maybe invest in some Back on Track hock boots to keep her comfortable until then.
ETA I actually think it might be a good idea to get her injected now, even if you aren't planning on running or riding that much. It will give the inflammation a chance to go down.
Edited by livexlovexrodeo 2016-11-10 12:00 PM
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | We decided to get Acti-Flex 4000 and a tub of MSM. We'll do this over the winter and come back and address it in the spring. Going to buy some BOT Hock Boots on Friday for her also. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | The horse is sore.. really sore.. Oral supplements are good for preventative and for your mindset. but they wont help .. MSM might help with pain Bute might help with pain for a few days but honestly your going to end up with a BIGGER problem riding her sore .. Trail riding even.. sore is sore.. her back was affected and this tells me its been going on awhile.. only good thing you can do is pasture her and walk possibly.. surprised vet didnt take a more aggressive approach even Pentason and adequan would have helped with joints.. not bashing but know the outcome of this.. arena sore,pain to stifle area, back soreness, a horse with a bad attitude.. its not a headache and give a aspirin.. there are changes going on in the hocks... google..Id inject soon
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-11-20 10:35 AM
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Location: Illinois | First, I would find a different vet. Second, get x-rays. Third, if it was my horse I would inject and find a good Chiro.
Whether you are going to run barrels or not I would still fix her hocks and get her out of pain.
Oral supplements for joints in my experience do NOT work. Waste of time and money.
Best of luck to you. |
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IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| I promise I am not crazy when I say that this oral supplement worked for our horse. There are a lot that are poor quality, but there are some top notch supplements coming out also.
http://equimanagement.com/article/texas-clinical-trial-equithrive-j...
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | Thanks magicgunsmoke.
I will not be switching vets. I trust mine completely and won't switch just because she didn't do what you guys want. I'm trying out the oral supplements and when spring rolls around, we'll see what to do then. |
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
Location: Always on call..... | kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-21 2:09 PM
Thanks magicgunsmoke.
I will not be switching vets. I trust mine completely and won't switch just because she didn't do what you guys want. I'm trying out the oral supplements and when spring rolls around, we'll see what to do then.
Welcome to the board from another KS barrel racer :-). Glad you got some good advice and it seems like your vet has a plan for you. I agree you shouldn't switch vets and her more conservative advice is fine if you are going to pretty much take the winter off. And if you aren't comfortable with injections at this point. Sounds like you have done your research. Plus the down time this winter will help her soreness.
You can learn a lot on this board but people are also pretty opinionated. ;-). Don't take things personally. I'll keep my eye out for a cute little black mare next spring at the jackpots! |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-21 3:09 PM Thanks magicgunsmoke. I will not be switching vets. I trust mine completely and won't switch just because she didn't do what you guys want. I'm trying out the oral supplements and when spring rolls around, we'll see what to do then.
I want to clarify I didnt say to switch vets.. I gave a opinion due to past experiences as alot of us have differant opinions. you take what you want as we share experiences.. I waited on mine as well.. 6 months later and poorer from other approachs ended up injected and had a painfree horse.. you asked we gave our personal opinion.. good luck |
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | Which part of Kansas are in in Dr. J? I'm in the NE. My plans for next year is to just exhibit her, maybe enter if we go to a small fun show or something. |
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Member
Posts: 35
Location: Kansas | I ordered Back On Track hock boots and got them today!! I haven't put them on her yet but I was wondering, how long should I keep them on her and when should I put them on her? I only ride her about 3x a week and it only takes me around 10 minutes to tack and untack, though I can definitely go to the barn earlier so she can have them on for a longer period of time before I start tacking up, and stay after longer.
I've heard people keep them on for hours. Star is on pasture 24/7 and I don't have stalls. Would 20 minutes before and after a ride, 3x a week, work? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| kansasbarrelracer - 2016-11-30 2:26 PM
I ordered Back On Track hock boots and got them today!! I haven't put them on her yet but I was wondering, how long should I keep them on her and when should I put them on her? I only ride her about 3x a week and it only takes me around 10 minutes to tack and untack, though I can definitely go to the barn earlier so she can have them on for a longer period of time before I start tacking up, and stay after longer.
I've heard people keep them on for hours. Star is on pasture 24/7 and I don't have stalls. Would 20 minutes before and after a ride, 3x a week, work?
That is pretty close time wise to way I use the BOT saddle pad. It definitely worked for my horse |
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Is she lame or just not working correctly?