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 Member
Posts: 14
| I am looking to purchase a really nice 4 year old that has been running all year with very little time off. He is being sold as a 1/2D and his records back that. They said the only thing they have had done to him is hock injections for preventative reasons.
Are there specific things you check for on a former futurity horse? advise x-rays? do you see long term issues? I know genetics and care play a major role but wanted to know if there might be things i should focus on.
Is there more risk with taller horses (joints?)? Certian bloodlines?
Thanks - just making sure i do what's right for me and this horse!
Edited by horzaddict2016 2016-11-02 2:22 PM
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
 
| I'd make sure the horses mind is good. Too much too soon can blow one up.
Have a couple friends who spend time rehabbing blown futurity horses. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| 4 seems really young to already need injections. To me that would be a red flag. I would get the horse fully vetted and x-rayed to make sure that all the running hasn't damaged anything. There are several studies that have come out recently that say horses don't stop growing/maturing until they are closer to 6 years old. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| I don't think hock injections prevent anything other than pain. So if the horse is in pain at the age of 4, I would pass without question. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
 
| horses that work hard made need them that early. just get xrays of hocks |
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 The Comeback Kid
Posts: 1564
Location: lost in missouri | A lot of trainers, seeing it especially in reiners and cutters, are injecting hocks at the ages of 3 and 4, they think it is preventative. Horse doesnt have to be experiencing pain for them to do it, they are just doing it. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 575
| redracinmo - 2016-11-02 8:15 AM A lot of trainers, seeing it especially in reiners and cutters, are injecting hocks at the ages of 3 and 4, they think it is preventative. Horse doesnt have to be experiencing pain for them to do it, they are just doing it.
Bingo. Which seems silly, but it's definitely happening. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| Are you sure they did not say maintenance? I have done that on young horses for maintenance. Just get vet records. |
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 Saint Stacey
| Just about any horse that has been futuritied and is running 1D/2D times will have had there hocks done. To say,"I'd pass on it" is just ridiculious.
If you are concerned about the hocks being done, X-ray them. I'd also X-ray the neck. Especially depending on who did the training. I bought a 6 year old that had a pretty decent futurity and derby record. He got really sore over his SI. Turns out he has two fractured vertebrae. It looks like they tied his head around and he flipped. I had him vetted by a very great lameness vet. After my experience, if I ever buy a futurity horse that did well I will get at least C4 through C6 xrayed. |
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Member
Posts: 14
| streakysox - 2016-11-02 9:50 AM
Are you sure they did not say maintenance? I have done that on young horses for maintenance. Just get vet records.
I would assume most view preventative/mainentance interchangably. Does it really help prevent any issues? What are you trying to maintain? I am not a fan of injecting without it being to fix something. I just think its risky to inject. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Sounds like this is something you would not want to deal with on a regular basis. At the very least get x-rays and soundness exam. The injections will fix pain and if this horse has had them recently it may even mask a chronic pain issue. That is why I would pass on this horse. But that is just my ridiculous opinion. Horse that young should not be hurting. On top of that I am assuming the horse is a gelding. So not only his he needing injections for pain at a young age, there are not many options for him if his pain causes him to not be sound for riding like you would if this was a mare. Just some things I would consider. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rpreast - 2016-11-02 9:42 AM
redracinmo - 2016-11-02 8:15 AM A lot of trainers, seeing it especially in reiners and cutters, are injecting hocks at the ages of 3 and 4, they think it is preventative. Horse doesnt have to be experiencing pain for them to do it, they are just doing it.
Bingo. Which seems silly, but it's definitely happening.
Actually it isn't silly, it is smart if it is being done correctly.
Injections reduce inflammation therefore reduces arthritis. I know some people that start doing the hocks as soon as the horse goes to the pattern, and they have never had hock problems, no arthritis.
Why wait till your horse is telling you they are sore? Why wait till they have begun to fuse? |
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Saint Stacey
| Barrel racing is not anywhere close to being a natural thing for a horse. We are asking them to put a huge amount of torque on the hocks for those very small circles at a high rate of speed. Most horses start fusing at the age of 10-12. But some can start at 4-5. If a horse is fusing, they are hurting. You don't know without X-rays. There are a number of reasons why a young horse might have been injected. Injecting one doesn't necessarily mean they have long term problems. A lot of trainers do routine injections like most of us get float jobs or give vaccinations. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Sound mind would be my first choice of checking. |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | A lot of horses are beginning the fusing process at 4-5 years of age. Very normal for a horse that is running barrels or in barrel training to get hock injections @ that age. I have had 4 year olds injected that never needed it again once they were fused.
I had a horse for sale a few years ago, a super nice 4 year old in training for 5 yro events. She flexed sound but you could see it on the radiographs for the prepurchase exam a potential buyer had ordered up. That buyer passed on the mare because of it, but the next person bought her despite. That horse went on to make the finals at several big futurities, won a couple futurities, and qualified for the semi finals for The American as a 5 year old. All without having to have further injections. Three years later, the mare is still having a successful maturity & rodeo career. |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | I would do a lot of xrays.. neck, knees, fetlocks, back, hocks, stifles.. cover all your bases. Run blood work and check to see if the horse has been on any "mind altering" drugs to calm him down. I'd also check some other futurity goers and see if they know anything about the horse.
I'd assume for a consistent 1D/2D 4yo that you'd be paying a pretty penny.. You don't wanna be cheap on the pre-purchase exam. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| I've injected a good many young horses, wouldn't concern me. I would x Ray like the previous posters said. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| There is nothing wrong in passing up a 4 year old that has already had hock injections if that makes you uncomfortable. Yo each their own.  |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | If the horses records back up his representation then watch the regular jockey run them at a barrel race and buy him. We inject futurity horses it's no big deal. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
Location: North of where I want to be |
If the record supports his value then have him very thoroughly vetted.
I will say this....if you can find someone else who has bought a horse from this person or from the trainer do so and ask questions, lots of them. Futurity horses are against the clock in all aspects. They are started young with a ton of training and hauling crammed into a short time frame when some are not mentally or physically ready for the demands. And in the East where EVERY ONE wants to be a futurity trainer/ rider it turns out some horses that on the surface are great but are really full of holes.
Good Luck. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 911
Location: Northern Ontario | I don't want to take over the thread, but can someone briefly tell me what it means when the hocks fuse? |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | SuperTrooper - 2016-11-06 2:48 PM
I don't want to take over the thread, but can someone briefly tell me what it means when the hocks fuse?
Hock fusing is a term to describe ankylosis of a joint.
The two major joints of the hock that we are concerned about fusing are the distal intertarsal and tarsometatarsal joints. Those are low motion joints of the hock that are the most commonly affected joints in hock arthritis. Horses that are in the process of fusing will be painful because of that inflammatory process going on in the joint. Once fusing is complete, the pain is gone because there's no more cartilage to replace by bone.
Some horses never fuse. Some horses fuse early. There is no true timeline for when a horse can start fusing, or for how long it takes for them to finish fusing.
Injecting joints provides pain relief, and based on the drug you choose, may speed up the fusing process because certain steroids (depo) are not as cartilage friendly than others. For horses who just can't seem to make any progress fusing, or for those who no longer respond to hock injections, you can surgically fuse the hock joints. This is done usually in combination with surgical arthrodesis (putting orthopedic plates in) and facilitated ankylosis (drilling the joint). In the experience of the surgeon I shadowed with, she feels if youre going to drill you should also put plates in because surgically drilling hocks is VERY painful. Surgically fusing hocks takes the horse out about a year. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 911
Location: Northern Ontario | Wow! Thanks so much! I have always wondered about this. For a horse that is naturally fusing, will the pain make them lame or just sore and inflammed? I am just wondering because sometimes you see horses who tend to have randomly swollen hocks and don't work as well and then all of a sudden they are fine a few months later with no more swelling(not my horses, I would have them checked out of they did this) |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | SuperTrooper - 2016-11-07 3:40 PM
Wow! Thanks so much! I have always wondered about this. For a horse that is naturally fusing, will the pain make them lame or just sore and inflammed? I am just wondering because sometimes you see horses who tend to have randomly swollen hocks and don't work as well and then all of a sudden they are fine a few months later with no more swelling(not my horses, I would have them checked out of they did this)
so when they are fusing, they may have a bony enlargement over the DIT or TMT joints... we call that "bone spavin." It's not a soft swelling, its a bony swelling. The pain from them fusing naturally can cause a range of problems- from just not clocking exactly where they should to obvious lameness. It will usually show up when you flex the hocks though. |
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Buying a former futurity horse - what do you look for?