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 Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
  
Location: S. California Beach | I've tried upwards of 25 saddles. I am currently in a treeless thats working but not my preference. The horse is cutting bred and not huge just very round (not much taper from rib cage to shoulder), eith a flat table top back and zero wither. Either saddles are way too big (when I shim it rolls), has too much rock and/or flare. I figured I would see if there were any other opinions.
I have tried (of the top of my head):
Coats 2014 flex tree
Tami Semas wide
Coats original bowden tree
Cactus CJ
Cactus barrel tree
Caldwell Pro-Max
Martin 8.5
Original Dale Martin
Martin Sherri Cervi
Slone B3
ShortGo
Masters Phoenix tree
Shiloh Jerri Mann
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach |
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| Following! I'm having the same issue.
The best thing I've found so far is a Cactus Marlene McRea Flex Tree 8in gullet. 5 star mutton withered pad. It's helped but still rolls a little. I think mine can go to a 9inch.
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | I've never seen a 8" marlene interesting.
That one in both the circle y and cactus didnt work either 
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| I had to special order crown c flat tree in a specific gullet |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 784
Location: USA | What happened when you tried the ProMax? |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | It didnt fit |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | I am going to follow this post as I have followed several of your FB post. Hopefully the BHW can find an answer for you! I have a very similar backed horse that I will need to fit come spring. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| Subbing as I am in the same boat as you. Thinking about going treeless, but I have some apprehension.
Along with the brands that you tried, ones that also didn't work for me are:
Billy Cook reining saddle
Circle Y XP tree saddle
SRS saddle
Rocking R saddle (now South Bend Saddlery)
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | I need to follow this too - I'm happy I am not alone. I've tried:
Pozzi (regular tree)
Double J Pro Racer
Black Rhino #2
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | Its very frustrating when I talk to various manufacturers and they keep trying to push flare on me...I cant have a flared tree with a flat backed horse. its beyond frustrating.
Has anyone tried a Possi X-Wide?
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Regular
Posts: 82
| I have a Double J Pro Racer, X-Wide fit. It fits my horses well. You also may want to try one of the new Sharon Camarillos by Reinsman, I like them too :) |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 784
Location: USA | I had a dbl j X-wide. It has a flatter bar angle for flatter back. Was the promax too narrow? Caldwell also has the maxxed out 8" gullet and the xl maxxed out 8.5" gullet. The Caldwell saddles fit much better than the dbl j. If the Promax was too wide they also have the Pro Racer which is a 7" Gullet with the flat bars. I had a horse built just like yours and the only thing that half way fit him was a Martin Iron Horse. Then Charon @ Caldwell hooked me up with the xl wide maxxed out and it fit like a glove! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I own the same model in a different color. His back/wither area is wider than his shoulders, his back is super short, nothing has a flat enough bar angle and they either run up too far forward onto the top of his shoulder or they ruffle his hair badly. He seems pretty comfortable in the Shiloh Jerri Mann, but the bar angle is too steep and it ruffles a gigantic area of hair towards the top where it's too wide. He loved my wide treeless, but I can't ride him in it--can't get my leg on him at all, so I feel perched and precarious, like I'm straddling a fence. I have an old Allen Ranch that looked like a decent fit, better than anything else I tried, but it ran up on him. The Merrill runs up, the Contender was just plain bad with the shoulder flare. I finally got the Contender sold yesterday, so I'm shopping. Meanwhile, I'm riding him in the Jerri Mann because he will actually move out willingly in it and I don't end up feeling like I'm sitting on his neck. |
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | I had a mare built very similar. A Lynn McKenzie special worked well for her. Email Lynn, she's very helpful! |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Lookin For Diamonds - 2016-11-03 9:21 AM I had a dbl j X-wide. It has a flatter bar angle for flatter back. Was the promax too narrow? Caldwell also has the maxxed out 8" gullet and the xl maxxed out 8.5" gullet. The Caldwell saddles fit much better than the dbl j. If the Promax was too wide they also have the Pro Racer which is a 7" Gullet with the flat bars. I had a horse built just like yours and the only thing that half way fit him was a Martin Iron Horse. Then Charon @ Caldwell hooked me up with the xl wide maxxed out and it fit like a glove!
My last round with a horse built like this, the Caldwell pro racer perched on her because the bar angle wasn't flat enough and had too much rock. She got really sore by the 3rd ride. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | I have a mare that's exactly like this!!! Very flat and wide across the back decent shoulder but a very round wither. My pozzi wide isn't a bad fit but it still rolls after loping a few circles. I've tried:
Pozzi standard -rolled terrible
Pozzi wide- better
Cactus CJ- too much rock
Lynn McKenzie wide- this was bad and not near wide enough!
I'm looking into 8" crown c, Pozzi x-wide, or coats std
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| What about Crates? They are made on Steele trees, which offer a ton of options. Crates might be able to work with you to build a custom saddle for your horse without breaking the bank. I think they are going to be my next try. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | I've got the same yet opposite problem as you guys. I have an extremely flat backed one too but he's not round.. He's built like a dang mule actually |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 627
Location: middle of nowhere | I had the same problem. I called Martin and got a 9 gullet with flat bars and no more rolling. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | Have you tried a Circle Y Flex2 WIDE (like the lisa lockhart version)? |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | Not flat enough |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | Yes just bad...perched way on top bullet screws were 1.5" above his back. Hes a tad downhill and i dont want to end up on his neck. Lynn said i could buy a nueva wide Im not buying anything til i can try itMay take him to the NFR this year |
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| Here in Tx/Ok we use the term ... mutton withers .. on these types
of conformation. It is very common in foundation bred horses.
You have to depend on more contact area with your tack and certain
materials are more "sticky" than others.
We don't buy saddles to fit specific horses we use other means to
keep a saddle in place and comfortable for the horse. (A light weight
youth or ladies roping saddle with rounded bars can be a good choice
to use in barrel racing.. just change the horn to fit your hand)
*****************************************************
STICKY TACK SETUP >>>>
A good high quality mohair roper cinch from DM tack..
(square topped D rings puts cinch pressure vertically w/no elbow rubbing
the roper cinch gives you more contact area and weight/pressure distribution)
A 2 1/2-- 3 inch breastcollar snapped in low on saddle or cinch D ring
(no downward pull on swells of saddle = no sore backs; snug fit to
girth and saddle or girth D rings .. might need a wither strap too)
A 2 finger snug fitting back girth dropping straight down on the rib cage
when saddling horse .. (it will slack off as saddle pad depresses with horse's
movement)
A good open backed horse hair saddle pad to keep any movement to a minimum
(old style pad had a canvas backing with horse hair contact on back and
ran $30-40 and if you look hard you can still find them) color makes you
think of CarHart canvas work jackets .. rust and green are common colors
Too many of todays expensive pads have no "grab" to hold them in place ..
the super smooth finish is for the owner to feel and not for keeping saddle
in place .. )
This completes what we call a sticky tack setup for mutton withered horses.
The above tacking up is a good practice to use on any horse you ride ...
by increasing the area of contact and proper positioning of your tack
your saddle movement and sore back problems disappear.
Another tip ... stop posting up and down in a western saddle ..
ride deep seated with some rhythm to your hips ...
go watch Cervi ride her mutton withered Stingray ... ..
. and stop pounding your horse in the kidneys .... lol ...
NO NEED TO BUY A DIFFERENT SADDLE FOR EACH HORSE YOU OWN..
I am as guilty as the next person ... When you have the money to
spend on something new .... you will find a reason to spend it ..
If you have no money to spend ... you will become inventive
and end up solving a problem that will last a lifetime.
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2016-11-03 5:19 PM
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | i have one horse and no saddle that remotely fits no matter the set up |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | margoannrodeo - 2016-11-03 5:08 PM
Yes just bad...perched way on top bullet screws were 1.5" above his back. Hes a tad downhill and i dont want to end up on his neck. Lynn said i could buy a nueva wide Im not buying anything til i can try itMay take him to the NFR this year
I tried a wide special and it was too narrow and just too much rock. It's supposed to fit this type of horse best but it didn't. I don't see how the Nueva trees would be wide enough at the wither with such a narrow gullet. |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | i would have to agree i didnt see the tree as flat |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| Have you tried Martin? They go pretty darn wide, and I don't think they have a lot of rock to them. |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | Yes several martins just not right |
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| margoannrodeo - 2016-11-03 7:23 PM
Yes several martins just not right
If my suggestions didn't work better than other things you have tried
then try these ..
1. DUCT TAPE YOUR SADDLE ON THE HORSE
2. SUPPORT 1/3 OF YOUR WEIGHT IN YOUR STIRRUPS
TO KEEP FROM BECOMING TOP HEAVY AND MAKING SADDLE SLIP
3. SELL THE HORSE TO SOME UNSUSPECTING KID THAT WILL PUT
AN OLD RAGTAG SADDLE ON THE HORSE AND NEITHER WILL EVER
KNOW THAT IT WASN'T SUPPOSE TO FIT ...
GOOD LUCK ..
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | I need to find something that remotely fits before i look at pads breastcollars and back cinches. The fit i have experienced are utterly atrocious why would i take an ill fitting saddle and add pads and and a back cinch. Slipping is the farthest thing from my issue. Finding something to fit his back is the struggle. |
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Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | margoannrodeo - 2016-11-03 5:08 PM Yes just bad...perched way on top bullet screws were 1.5" above his back. Hes a tad downhill and i dont want to end up on his neck. Lynn said i could buy a nueva wide Im not buying anything til i can try itMay take him to the NFR this year
Double j has a demo program |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | draftmare - 2016-11-03 7:22 PM
Have you tried Martin? They go pretty darn wide, and I don't think they have a lot of rock to them.
The bar angle is too steep on the standard Martin trees. The special ordered ones might work, but I'm not spending that much money. |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | AgreeThe double j demo program you have to pay 200 for shipping plus hold 2500. So crazy to tryHoping they will have tons of options at the nfr its only a 4 hour drove |
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 Buttered Noodles Snacker
Posts: 4377
Location: NC | Lookin For Diamonds - 2016-11-03 9:21 AM I had a dbl j X-wide. It has a flatter bar angle for flatter back. Was the promax too narrow? Caldwell also has the maxxed out 8" gullet and the xl maxxed out 8.5" gullet. The Caldwell saddles fit much better than the dbl j. If the Promax was too wide they also have the Pro Racer which is a 7" Gullet with the flat bars. I had a horse built just like yours and the only thing that half way fit him was a Martin Iron Horse. Then Charon @ Caldwell hooked me up with the xl wide maxxed out and it fit like a glove!
I have a Martin Iron Horse and it really seems to fit a wide range of horses really well. I got it because both of my mares at the time had flat backs. and it fit them both great. My problem is now it doesn't fit me. :-( I have been trying to stick with it and tell myself I will lose weight but I think I need to face the sad facts and move on to a bigger seat.... :'( Good luck on your search, saddle fitting is soooooo fustrating. Like you I went through too many to count until finding my Iron Horse. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| margoannrodeo - 2016-11-03 8:23 PM
I need to find something that remotely fits before i look at pads breastcollars and back cinches. The fit i have experienced are utterly atrocious why would i take an ill fitting saddle and add pads and and a back cinch. Slipping is the farthest thing from my issue. Finding something to fit his back is the struggle.
I wasn't sure if that poster was being serious or not...
I was once told that I should a) drug my horse up and just ride and b) just ride despite the saddle not fitting. It makes me feel like maybe I AM the crazy one, but I also want the best fit for my horse so that she can work at her best. |
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 Cactus Cowgirl
Posts: 2791
Location: Montana | Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-03 8:22 AM I own the same model in a different color. His back/wither area is wider than his shoulders, his back is super short, nothing has a flat enough bar angle and they either run up too far forward onto the top of his shoulder or they ruffle his hair badly. He seems pretty comfortable in the Shiloh Jerri Mann, but the bar angle is too steep and it ruffles a gigantic area of hair towards the top where it's too wide. He loved my wide treeless, but I can't ride him in it--can't get my leg on him at all, so I feel perched and precarious, like I'm straddling a fence. I have an old Allen Ranch that looked like a decent fit, better than anything else I tried, but it ran up on him. The Merrill runs up, the Contender was just plain bad with the shoulder flare. I finally got the Contender sold yesterday, so I'm shopping. Meanwhile, I'm riding him in the Jerri Mann because he will actually move out willingly in it and I don't end up feeling like I'm sitting on his neck.
I could have wrote this exact thing for one of ours. She is incredily wide and is so wide through her loin area that the saddle keeps riding forward. Following this thread! |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | margoannrodeo - 2016-11-03 4:59 PM Not flat enough
Oh crazy! How frustrating.
I know you said you are using a treeless right now. Boy, besides going 100% custom, that may be your best bet.
Do you have any pictures of any of the previous saddles you've tried ON your horse, so we can get a better visual? I know you posted pictures of her bare back, but it would also be nice to see a saddle on her.
Or maybe with the current treeless one you have now.
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| My sister had a little mare like this years ago. She ended up riding her in a roping saddle. |
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Veteran
Posts: 138
| HorsesNHarleys - 2016-11-04 6:43 AM
Lookin For Diamonds - 2016-11-03 9:21 AM I had a dbl j X-wide. It has a flatter bar angle for flatter back. Was the promax too narrow? Caldwell also has the maxxed out 8" gullet and the xl maxxed out 8.5" gullet. The Caldwell saddles fit much better than the dbl j. If the Promax was too wide they also have the Pro Racer which is a 7" Gullet with the flat bars. I had a horse built just like yours and the only thing that half way fit him was a Martin Iron Horse. Then Charon @ Caldwell hooked me up with the xl wide maxxed out and it fit like a glove!
I have a Martin Iron Horse and it really seems to fit a wide range of horses really well. I got it because both of my mares at the time had flat backs. and it fit them both great. My problem is now it doesn't fit me. :-( I have been trying to stick with it and tell myself I will lose weight but I think I need to face the sad facts and move on to a bigger seat.... :'( Good luck on your search, saddle fitting is soooooo fustrating. Like you I went through too many to count until finding my Iron Horse.
In a similar situation right now. Friend has a Martin for sale that fits my mare really well, but is a bit snug on me. I just barely have one finger between my thigh and the pommel. I need to lose weight anyway, so I am debating on getting the saddle and hitting the diet hard, or to keep looking. I have looked at so many saddles, I just so badly want something to fit. However, it is still a lot of money on a hope of losing weight... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | Prickly Pear - 2016-11-04 8:50 AM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-11-03 8:22 AM I own the same model in a different color. His back/wither area is wider than his shoulders, his back is super short, nothing has a flat enough bar angle and they either run up too far forward onto the top of his shoulder or they ruffle his hair badly. He seems pretty comfortable in the Shiloh Jerri Mann, but the bar angle is too steep and it ruffles a gigantic area of hair towards the top where it's too wide. He loved my wide treeless, but I can't ride him in it--can't get my leg on him at all, so I feel perched and precarious, like I'm straddling a fence. I have an old Allen Ranch that looked like a decent fit, better than anything else I tried, but it ran up on him. The Merrill runs up, the Contender was just plain bad with the shoulder flare. I finally got the Contender sold yesterday, so I'm shopping. Meanwhile, I'm riding him in the Jerri Mann because he will actually move out willingly in it and I don't end up feeling like I'm sitting on his neck.
I could have wrote this exact thing for one of ours. She is incredily wide and is so wide through her loin area that the saddle keeps riding forward. Following this thread!
I always wondered why every saddle seemed to move forward...I never thought about the fact that a wider loin could cause that. She is wider and then slightly narrows towards the shoulders.
I will say my pozzi wide isn't a bad fit, it just still slightly rolls/feels loose after warming up. It's annoying feeling like your riding in a slightly loose saddle all the time. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I have a Circle Y XP saddle I just took in on partial trade with no intentions of riding it, and I think I have it sold now, but I have to say, I was shocked at how nicely it rode and how nicely it fit my little round backed, pudgy mare, and I even had a 7/8" 5 Star pad under it and still had plenty of room. Now my mare isn't as wide as margo's horse or the grey horse below, but I would love to see this little saddle I had on ya'lls horses. I put it in my trailer on the saddle rack to compare to my Coats and again, it is way wider than the Coats through the gullet and through the channel between the bars so it had zero rock to the tree. The bars are not steep at all either. My Coats rolls on my mare, but this little saddle stayed put, didn't move forward or backward. I was really impressed with how it fit this particular horse and how it rode.
Now I did put it on my horse that has a completely different back. He's narrower through the shoulder and has some drop to his back, but then his hip comes up steep and fast and he's hip high. He does better in a saddle with a bit of twist to the tree and this one just fell down behind his wither and put all the pressure there on his shoulders. That wasn't the case at all on the mare.
As far as how the saddle rode, i'm a saddle junkie first of all and have had them all at one point or another. I'm a big fanatic on a saddle riding balanced and your feet MUST stay under you. If a saddle throws me forward, it's a no go. I was so surprised at how nice and balanced this saddle rode and how nice of a pocket it had in the seat. My feet stayed right where they should even when I stood up in my stirrups and my upper body got forward, I never lost my feet.
If you guys with these flat backed horses can find one of these saddles to try, I think they would be worth looking at! |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I so wish our timing had been better.  |
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Cactus Cowgirl
Posts: 2791
Location: Montana | Herbie, thank you for sharing. Story of my life is a day late and dollar short!   |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Well she hasn't paid for it yet, but says she wants it. If she doesn't, you two can fight over it. LOL I'd post pics, but i'd have to email them to myself, then resize them, then resize them again, then post them. If ya'll wanna see it, send me a Facebook message and I can show it to you. I won't sell it out from under this lady, but I can give her a deadline as to when I have to have the money.
If you can find someone in your area that has one, you need to try it. It rides and fits a wide flat backed horse that nice! Orrrrrr, just come to my house over the weekend and try this one before I ship it on Monday.  |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | i will post pictures on my computer |
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