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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 346
 
Location: USA | I'm sorry for the broken record, but I am at a loss.
Long story short, treated my horse with Ulcergard this last spring and got about three months of good runs. I then did 30 days of THE gastro plus and then moved him to a scoop the day before, day of, and day after. I have felt that he has slowly started declining, and now is back to refusing to turn the first barrel again, Very irritated, and just not a happy horse. I am guessing he has relapsed, and wondering where I go from here? Do I do another full round of gastogard? I read an article where they are seeing the same results with a 1/4 dose for 28 days, has anyone had experience with this? I also thought about CurOst, but do I treat him with gastro gard first? This is a 1-d horse when he is right, but right now I am just so frustrated. Thought about just turning him out on pasture for the winter, but will ulcers heal on their own? Just needing some ideas and someone with experience. I want to do the best I can, but just not sure what that is. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
 
Location: Opelousas, LA | If the GastroPlus seemed to help him, I would just keep him on it everyday and maybe add a 1/4 dose of Ulcerguard the day before, during and after a haul. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
Location: MN | DAC has a new product for ulcers that has been proven to treat and prevent ulcers called Cool Gut. It is very resonably priced as well. It would be something to try at least if you plan on turning him out for a while. Buying Ulcerguard and Gastroguard is and can be so expensive. If youd like to PM me your email address i can forward you the before and afters of vets who scoped horses that I got from a DAC dealer. |
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Veteran
Posts: 154
| My horses were in the trial for the 1/4 dose of gastroguard and they showed no improvement or were worse. I do not know if we received the drug or placebo so I can't help you there.
I would do the whole tube route just to be sure |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I treated my ulcer horse with the Cur Ost Stomach and Adapt only and it worked. Talk to Dr. Tom on secondvet.com or email via nouvelle research.com |
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 pressure dripper
Posts: 8699
Location: the end of the rainbow | I've been really happy with the Excel by DePaulo equine for both of my ulcer horses. I feel like I'm getting more bang for my buck than I have with other ulcer control supplements. I've been veryhappy with my results. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I would treat the ulcers again, 1/2 a tube daily for 3 weeks had worked for me then I would try to see what is causing them. Because of ulcers and colic I took mine off grain 5 years ago and have had zero problems (the one I recently treated was stalled st a trainers for 3 months). Grain was the first thing mine refused, a major irritant so I though why continue to feed it?? There are great concentrated feeds that only require a cup or two per day to get the nutrients they need and forage is the main component of their diet. I give mine 1/4 dose when hauling. I feed renew gold, alfalfa and 1/2 scoop of oats. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I would treat with the gastro guard for a full month, then I would try equisure.
I was speaking with Randa who is on the board, she said it has been shown to treat ulcers. 2 horses were going to be euthanized they treated with equisure daily and scoped daily. Both showed signs of healing by day 7.
She says it coats the gut including the intestines, it doesn't prevent Hcl secretion, doesn't have any effect on medication absorbency. It can be given daily without long term effects, horses can't overdose.
This was developed by a vet for an alternative to omeprazole.
I haven't tried it, but am interested trying it on my one who is a chronic abscesser who is on bute daily.
I guess they have a booth at the nfr, but not sure which convention centre. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 346
Location: USA | I feed him grass and alfalfa with a pound of renew gold at night. He is turned out on pasture as much as possible.
I did try equisure just before I would get on at a barrel race, but maybe that wasn't enough. How much do you give daily?
There are so many different products, I'm just so overwhelmed right now. I was pretty sure I was going to try CurOst, but now....... |
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Addicted to Baseball
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright, TX | I don't believe a horse with ulcers alone, would refuse to turn ONE barrel. Have you had a full soundess exam done, I mean a very comprehensive interior-view exam. I'd be inclinded to think he's hurting in that turn vs. ulcers creating the problems at one barrel. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I think you need to treat one more time then put him on a daily preventative.
The number of options are overwhelming, but that's just because, with the exception of GastroGard, no one thing works for every single horse.
Options that I have used or have personally seen the results of in horses that I know:
OE Nuetra Solution for treatment, Maintain for daily maintenance.
MVP GastroPlex pellets for daily maintenance, and they have a paste you can give for extra protection on days you are hauling/running.
CurOst Stomach Adapt and Calm
OxyUlcer
Finish Line U7 Gastric Aid- available in a daily supplement and a paste
And of course GastroGard and UlcerGard
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 595
Location: North Dakota | I just dealt with my first bout of ulcers. I immediately got ulcergard and was planning to do 2 full weeks of 1 tube per day, after 5 days on ulcergard my mare actually got worse and wouldn't eat a single thing. She developed terrible diarrhea and wasn't drinking well at all. After another visit with my vet and getting some fluids in her. I decided to switch directions and ordered Cur-OST Stomach formula. I dosed her the night I got it, I mixed 2 scoops with some water and put it in a syringe(pain in the butt but worth it) by the next morning she was more perky and I dosed her again that morning the same way. By noon that day she had cleaned up every speck of food she had in front of her. That is less than 24 hours and my horse was eating again! This was a horse that hadn't cleaned up more than 50% of her meals in almost a month, some days not eating at all. She has been on the mend ever since starting the Stomach formula. She has also been started back on Total support and Immune.
I had her on Cur-OST Total support and Immune for her COPD from December 2015-August 2016, I had to take her off due to some bills I needed to pay and couldn't afford it. Within a month of her being off of Cur-OST she went downhill including a resp infecton, colic, dehydration, ulcers and the diarrhea...all of that leading to low total protein in her blood work.. it was a mess. I hope I never have to be without it again as I know how badly this particular horse needs it. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2335
Location: IL | You are going to have to give a daily stomach supplement, not just when traveling and competing. Also make sure there isn't a soundness issue. If the horse is huting somewhere ulcers will just keep reoccurring from the anxiety from the pain. I give my horses Depaolo products. The digestive supplement is called Exel. I think it afforadable and it works. I will never go without it again. I tried Gastroplex, THE gastroplus, and Curost. I was at my wits end. None of these products gave me the results Exel did. I also use slow feed hay nets and no grain. I give alfalfa pellets just to get supplements in. I also make sure not soreness problems. Good Luck |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | We have a new product for you that may be more cost effective for you other than GastroPLUS. GI Ulcer Support. 80 scoops is $80 and I offer free shipping. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 346
Location: USA | I did have a lameness exam done. Right hock showed smaller joint space than the left, so we injected. That was all the vet had found and said I would have a new horse.
Unfortunately, there was no improvement. That's when I treated him with 28 days of Ulcergard. Got about 6 or 7 great runs then slowly started declining again. Maybe I needed to be more aggressive with my maintence.
He is only 6 and hasn't been run much at all.
He did come down with pneumonia his futurity year and just has never been right since. Not sure if all this is tied together, there really aren't any really good performance vets in our area, so maybe I need to take a road trip. |
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | Tilt The Kilt - 2016-11-07 8:25 AM I don't believe a horse with ulcers alone, would refuse to turn ONE barrel. Have you had a full soundess exam done, I mean a very comprehensive interior-view exam. I'd be inclinded to think he's hurting in that turn vs. ulcers creating the problems at one barrel.
Yes, it happens because it happened to me and its happened to two other of my friends. My horse wouldn't turn to the right. We would approach the turn and he'd get stiff as a board and want to run up the fence. I put a single barrel in the middle of my pen and he'd still do it. I treated him for ulcers and he quit the behavior in about a week. |
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The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | Oakley - 2016-11-07 9:30 AM I did have a lameness exam done. Right hock showed smaller joint space than the left, so we injected. That was all the vet had found and said I would have a new horse.
Unfortunately, there was no improvement. That's when I treated him with 28 days of Ulcergard. Got about 6 or 7 great runs then slowly started declining again. Maybe I needed to be more aggressive with my maintence.
He is only 6 and hasn't been run much at all.
He did come down with pneumonia his futurity year and just has never been right since. Not sure if all this is tied together, there really aren't any really good performance vets in our area, so maybe I need to take a road trip.
I treated my guy with a half a tube of Ulcergard for 21 days, along with 10 cc of Equisure daily during that period of time as well. I also put him on Dr. Depaulos Excel for his gut (mixed with alfalfa pellets and his Platinum CJ) and it made a TREMENDOUS difference. In the past I've just treated with half a tube of Ulcergard and had great results, but nothing like what I got from the three of these products together. |
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| Equisure is amazing!! I don't get the rebound ulcers with it like I do after stopping omeprazole, and it's great for their overall health, feed utilization, stimulating appetite and water intake, weather changes and other stress, and digestion. I do have some extra on hand, PM me if you want more information. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 589
| I would say soundness exam and then treat ulcers again and then maintain it daily... He is probably hurting somewhere which is then causing stress to flare up ulcers again.
Most likely keep him on something daily not just when hauling.
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | I have no advice for you but I am sending hugs. I am in the same boat. Just can't seem to get the maintenece part down... My boy relapses every time the weather changes It seems. |
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Expert
Posts: 2335
Location: IL | Oakley - 2016-11-07 9:30 AM I did have a lameness exam done. Right hock showed smaller joint space than the left, so we injected. That was all the vet had found and said I would have a new horse.
Unfortunately, there was no improvement. That's when I treated him with 28 days of Ulcergard. Got about 6 or 7 great runs then slowly started declining again. Maybe I needed to be more aggressive with my maintence.
He is only 6 and hasn't been run much at all.
He did come down with pneumonia his futurity year and just has never been right since. Not sure if all this is tied together, there really aren't any really good performance vets in our area, so maybe I need to take a road trip.
I would treat with omeprazole again and start a stomach supplement and keep him on it all the time. Also when hauling make sure you give omeprazole ( gastro guard) the day before hauling, the day(s) you are competing and one day after. This has made a huge difference too. Also make sure he isn't bleeding after a run. That could have been the start of the pneumonia. Like I said I love Excel and it has worked with all my horses. No ulcers this year!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 595
Location: North Dakota | Oakley - 2016-11-07 9:30 AM
I did have a lameness exam done. Right hock showed smaller joint space than the left, so we injected. That was all the vet had found and said I would have a new horse.
Unfortunately, there was no improvement. That's when I treated him with 28 days of Ulcergard. Got about 6 or 7 great runs then slowly started declining again. Maybe I needed to be more aggressive with my maintence.
He is only 6 and hasn't been run much at all.
He did come down with pneumonia his futurity year and just has never been right since. Not sure if all this is tied together, there really aren't any really good performance vets in our area, so maybe I need to take a road trip.
Now that you bring up the past respiratory issue, I would really get in contact with Dr. Schell on the forum at secondvet.com. Might be something still going on there. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | It sounds like he may be a silent worrier, if they keep coming back. When I have a horse like that I just keep them on GastroPLUS everyday. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 899
Location: Idaho | Omeprozole / UlcerGard for 30/60 days. The to MAINTAIN ulcers, give the horse 60 cc"s (or 1 cup) of pure aloe vera juice per day. Recommended by my vet.
A gelding I had, had ulcers really bad. I did this, and he was a completely different horse. AND before people say I am crazy, I had this horse for 2 years and kept him on the aloe vera and never had an issue. Before I treated him, he would bolt, panic, he was anxious and nervous all the time and was grouchy. After a week of starting treatment.. a complete 180. AND he stayed like that. I know it works, and it is a cheaper alternative than constantly treating and all the expensive maintenance supplements out there.
Edited by DashNDustem 2016-11-07 12:17 PM
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Oakley - 2016-11-07 9:30 AM I did have a lameness exam done. Right hock showed smaller joint space than the left, so we injected. That was all the vet had found and said I would have a new horse.
Unfortunately, there was no improvement. That's when I treated him with 28 days of Ulcergard. Got about 6 or 7 great runs then slowly started declining again. Maybe I needed to be more aggressive with my maintence.
He is only 6 and hasn't been run much at all.
He did come down with pneumonia his futurity year and just has never been right since. Not sure if all this is tied together, there really aren't any really good performance vets in our area, so maybe I need to take a road trip.
If he were mine, I would do the Cur-OST, but given that he's had some respiratory issues in the past and hasn't been right since, I would take a different approach. I would do the EQ Total Support with the EQ Immune and Repair and the EQ Adapt & Calm together for 90 days and then maintain on the EQ Total Support and EQ Adapt & Calm after 90 days. This is going to do a few things for him. You're going to get ramped up stomach support by adding in the Immune & Repair, even though the Total Support contains herbs geared for that as well, with the Immune, it will give an added benefit. You're also going to get the benefit of the anti-inflammatory herbs which will reduce the inflammation in the body, as well as reduce the pain and reduce the rated at which the damage is occurring. Remember, inflammation is the root of all evil. You're also going to get the respiratry and immune system back on track in case there is something residual going on there. Considering he hasn't been the same since then, I suspect there is still an issue potentially, and having dealt with that myself and nearly losing my horse in the process, it can make them do things and behave in a way that makes you think they might just kill you.
Just remember, inflammation is the issue here, and we need to start at the source. If he is on other products, I would take him off and give him no other products other than what i've mentioned above. I might would even replace the RG with a half scoop of whole oats and a cup of BOSS once daily to mix the Cur-OST in. Keeping it as simple as possible and only rely on the small amount of grain and seeds as a medium in which to receive the product. The rest of his nutrition coming form the best quality forage you can find.
Here's the change it made in my horse after 30 days. We had spent thousands of dollars at the vet and he was on Ranitidine, and had been for months, when the before pictures was taken here. He was also on 10cc of Ventipulmin combined with Dex, and we had worked our way up to that. We'd tried every treatment that 3 different vets had to offer and still had a horse who was deteriorating and couldn't take a deep enough breath to cough, not to mention was terribly ulcery. I did exactly what i've explained to you to do here, despite my great skepticism.....it was literally a last resort for me. In 30 days, I had a new horse. And while it took us about a year to work out the bad habits he'd developed due to not being able to breathe and just overall hurting, we haven't looked back.
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A Cool Sharp One
| just don't assume that it is ulcers if you haven't had them scoped; I would suggest having your vet scope the horse to confirm that there is a presence of ulcers or could it be something else; our 3yr old filly was gas colicing, not going off feed or anything and we did have her scoped and she had some mild ulcers, just completed the 28 days of Ulcer Guard (a tube a day) and then 4ozs of aloe juice at each feeding and 1 oz of Gastrix at each feeding, just had her rescoped and she is clear, but until you can get down there and see that there are no ulcers then you are not going to know for sure.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 346
Location: USA | I thought about taking him in and getting him scoped, because I have been fighting my head about if it is ulcers at all. But I KNOW after I did the Ulcergard, he was soft, willing, his top line filled in and he was back in the 1-d.
What are your thoughts about just leaving him alone and turning him out on pasture for the winter, then bring him up early spring, assessing him then and go from there? Would I do more harm than good? Will ulcers heal themselves? |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Oakley - 2016-11-08 8:08 AM I thought about taking him in and getting him scoped, because I have been fighting my head about if it is ulcers at all. But I KNOW after I did the Ulcergard, he was soft, willing, his top line filled in and he was back in the 1-d.
What are your thoughts about just leaving him alone and turning him out on pasture for the winter, then bring him up early spring, assessing him then and go from there? Would I do more harm than good? Will ulcers heal themselves? Ulcers will heal on their own once the contributor is removed. However if there is inflammation in the lungs or elsewhere in the body, the longer the inflammation is present, the more damage is done that is irreversible.
Edited by Herbie 2016-11-09 9:30 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 346
Location: USA | Thank you all for the responses! It has helped, and I have a plan! I will keep you all posted. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Ulcers will often not heal until you eliminate the bacterial infection in them that keeps them going. Eliminating inflammation alone will not do that. Give me a call and I would be happy to help.
Win, 530-934-9300 |
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 Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Try Guardian from Jeffers. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| He could have colonic ulcers. They can not scope for them. Instead of scoping. I would do either Oxy Ulcer or THE. Both will get hind gut or colonic ulcers. |
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