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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
 
Location: NE TX | What were your go to things you did during the week (exercise and around the barn), at the race (warming up and in the stall or at the trailer), secret formulas (lasix mixed with anything and at what levels), how far out did y'all give lasix before a run, any supplements you gave (bleeder stop, bleed block, race x), what did and didn't work for you?? Has anyone tried Sheppard's Purse? If you have, good and bad please.
I ask all these many things if you because my mare is a recently found bleeder and 5cc 2 hours out wasn't working, she was still bleeding and has an infection and vet wants to go to 10cc split into 5cc at 4hours and 5cc at 2 hours. I asked about guanabenz instead of adding extra lasix and he gave me guanabenz but we didn't discuss lowering lasix when adding guanabenz. Since the original plan of 5cc obviously wasn't working and I'm gonna have to play around and see what does, I wanna know what everyone else has had success with.
Thanks in advance and Merry Christmas! |
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
 
Location: Florida | Two tablespoons of Creamora in the feed every day. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| 5 ccs Lasix 4 hours out, a strong trot/lope program. I also started tying her tongue, which seems to have helped. I didn't have any change with supplements. When it's humid she gets a little more Lasix, and I'm very religious about after care and making sure she gets enough electrolytes after to ensure she drinks. I also soak the hay, just anything I can think of to get fluids back into her.
Ran diagnostics on flappers, one was paralyzed and required surgery. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1163
Location: Foot of the Smoky Mtns, East Tennessee | What does the cremora do? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
Location: NE TX | NeedMoreSpeed - 2016-12-21 5:55 PM
What does the cremora do?
Yes, I would like to know too. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | NeedMoreSpeed - 2016-12-21 6:55 PM What does the cremora do?
nothing |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 891
| I would try your Lasix dose at 1 hour. You have to play with the timing to find out what is right for your horse. I know a horse that has to have it 15 min before he runs. Every horse is different.
Edited by okhorselover 2016-12-21 7:08 PM
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | okhorselover - 2016-12-21 8:06 PM I would try your Lasix dose at 1 hour. You have to play with the timing to find out what is right for your horse. I know a horse that has to have it 15 min before he runs. Every horse is different.
that is physiologically impossible |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| okhorselover - 2016-12-21 7:06 PM
I would try your Lasix dose at 1 hour. You have to play with the timing to find out what is right for your horse. I know a horse that has to have it 15 min before he runs. Every horse is different.
Why? The less time they're on it, the less time it has to work. Lasix makes them excrete fluid, which causes their blood pressure to fall, which helps to keep their capillaries in their lungs from hemorrhaging.
I would think more time, not less.
Texas A&M will tell anyone with a bleeder that 10 ccs 4 hours out is the recommendation. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1481
Location: TEXAS | classicpotatochip - 2016-12-21 7:17 PM
okhorselover - 2016-12-21 7:06 PM
I would try your Lasix dose at 1 hour. You have to play with the timing to find out what is right for your horse. I know a horse that has to have it 15 min before he runs. Every horse is different.
Why? The less time they're on it, the less time it has to work. Lasix makes them excrete fluid, which causes their blood pressure to fall, which helps to keep their capillaries in their lungs from hemorrhaging.
I would think more time, not less.
Texas A&M will tell anyone with a bleeder that 10 ccs 4 hours out is the recommendation.
I agree - we've had a few on Lasix - and used on race horses - more time is better  |
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Location: Great Places Great Faces | I do 6cc lasix 2 hours out, pull water when I give it. Right after I run give as much water as she wants and OE electrolytes. You want your horse to be in excellent shape, long trotting is a big part of my week day program. I don't ever run in double runs. No supplements have ever worked. I give more lasix if it's humid and if it's really hot I will give it about 1 1/2 out and let her have water as long as possible. Also I love the flair stripes! She cools off so much faster with them and gets her breath back much quicker. It's a must just as much as lasixs is. Lastly I would only use Salix, brand name lasix. The generics are not as good. And it's been proven. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| I would also like to know if anyone that has a bleeder uses Equipulmin with good results? I've been told you can eliminate lasix using this liquid herb..but skeptical to try it at $150/gallon. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 838
Location: Georgia | Long trotting and loping during the week. Our property is hilly so we trot/lope the hills. Pre run exercise is just trotting and loping about 30 mins before with about 5 mins rest before a run. I give 10cc of OE Wind 2 hours before her run and flair strips about 30 mins before we start her warm up. Works great! |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | All these high doses of lasix is just mind boggling to me. Race horses don't even run on that much lasix. Wow! I'd be concerned having to give that much and would probably stop running the horse on the track. We give 2-3 cc 4 hours out. Pull water and hay. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | total performance - 2016-12-23 6:17 AM
All these high doses of lasix is just mind boggling to me. Race horses don't even run on that much lasix. Wow! I'd be concerned having to give that much and would probably stop running the horse on the track. We give 2-3 cc 4 hours out. Pull water and hay.
Those arent even high doses..my old bay mare was on 12 to 15cc...i think a big thing with bleeders is that they have to be in tip top shape and kept that way.....m |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | mruggles - 2016-12-22 9:37 AM total performance - 2016-12-23 6:17 AM All these high doses of lasix is just mind boggling to me. Race horses don't even run on that much lasix. Wow! I'd be concerned having to give that much and would probably stop running the horse on the track. We give 2-3 cc 4 hours out. Pull water and hay. Those arent even high doses..my old bay mare was on 12 to 15cc...i think a big thing with bleeders is that they have to be in tip top shape and kept that way.....m
YIKES!!! |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | total performance - 2016-12-22 7:17 AM
All these high doses of lasix is just mind boggling to me. Race horses don't even run on that much lasix. Wow! I'd be concerned having to give that much and would probably stop running the horse on the track. We give 2-3 cc 4 hours out. Pull water and hay.
Same here. 3cc 4 hours out.
I don't see how giving it closer to a run helps one that's bleeding through...more time to pee more makes more sense to me.
My gelding needs at least 4 hours. If the race is dragging out and I can see it'll be much longer before I run, I'll allow him to wet his mouth and get one or two swallows. |
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Location: Great Places Great Faces | total performance - 2016-12-22 6:17 AM
All these high doses of lasix is just mind boggling to me. Race horses don't even run on that much lasix. Wow! I'd be concerned having to give that much and would probably stop running the horse on the track. We give 2-3 cc 4 hours out. Pull water and hay.
My mare weighs close to 1250lbs, 6 cc is not a high dose. I questions people who only give 2-3 cc.. I think it depends on the extent of bleeder you are dealing with. And some race horses do run on higher doses. |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | How much time did you give the horse off after he bled? |
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Regular
Posts: 84
| I prefer Kentucky red over Lasix, (personal experience and opinion) especially during the summer when I feel water is a must. Every horse is different. I have had a few horses that HAD to have lasix. Even track horses I've trained always got Kentucky red instead of Lasix. I only used Lasix on race days, or horses that HAD to have it... Also, whenever I have a bleeder, I do lots of electrolytes post run. Vitamin K&C powder is something I feed daily to all my horses, and will bump up for a bleeder. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
Location: NE TX | fatchance - 2016-12-22 2:12 PM How much time did you give the horse off after he bled?
She got 60 days off, rechecked at 60 days and was as perfect as could be. Gave her another month off due to being August and being HOT in TX and my work schedule was crazy for the next month. Brought her back September and October and ran her a few times in November but wasn't seeing what I thought I would see as far as running better and not being as "****y" in the alley so took her for a recheck last week and confirmed bleeding and infection. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: Georgia | classicpotatochip - 2016-12-21 6:50 PM 5 ccs Lasix 4 hours out, a strong trot/lope program. I also started tying her tongue, which seems to have helped. I didn't have any change with supplements. When it's humid she gets a little more Lasix, and I'm very religious about after care and making sure she gets enough electrolytes after to ensure she drinks. I also soak the hay, just anything I can think of to get fluids back into her. Ran diagnostics on flappers, one was paralyzed and required surgery.
What is tying their tongue? I have never heard of this |
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | mandita8907 - 2016-12-22 3:38 PM
classicpotatochip - 2016-12-21 6:50 PM 5 ccs Lasix 4 hours out, a strong trot/lope program. I also started tying her tongue, which seems to have helped. I didn't have any change with supplements. When it's humid she gets a little more Lasix, and I'm very religious about after care and making sure she gets enough electrolytes after to ensure she drinks. I also soak the hay, just anything I can think of to get fluids back into her. Ran diagnostics on flappers, one was paralyzed and required surgery.
What is tying their tongue? I have never heard of this
Just what it says. Most Tb's get their tongues tied. Hpeople keep their airway open. You reach in the side of their moutb, grab the tongue, pull it forward and wrap a knee hi panty hose around it and tie it under their bottom lip. |
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The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Flamin10 - 2016-12-22 1:31 PM fatchance - 2016-12-22 2:12 PM How much time did you give the horse off after he bled? She got 60 days off, rechecked at 60 days and was as perfect as could be. Gave her another month off due to being August and being HOT in TX and my work schedule was crazy for the next month. Brought her back September and October and ran her a few times in November but wasn't seeing what I thought I would see as far as running better and not being as "****y" in the alley so took her for a recheck last week and confirmed bleeding and infection.
Might be time for her to raise a foal. Your doing it by the book as far as time off, except I gave my guy 90 days off. Ran him on 5cc lasix's for a month and then completely off of it. He was the type of horse after that I never gave down time to. He was rode hard during the week and weekends. |
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Expert
Posts: 1481
Location: TEXAS | total performance - 2016-12-22 5:05 PM
mandita8907 - 2016-12-22 3:38 PM
classicpotatochip - 2016-12-21 6:50 PM 5 ccs Lasix 4 hours out, a strong trot/lope program. I also started tying her tongue, which seems to have helped. I didn't have any change with supplements. When it's humid she gets a little more Lasix, and I'm very religious about after care and making sure she gets enough electrolytes after to ensure she drinks. I also soak the hay, just anything I can think of to get fluids back into her. Ran diagnostics on flappers, one was paralyzed and required surgery.
What is tying their tongue? I have never heard of this
Just what it says. Most Tb's get their tongues tied. Hpeople keep their airway open. You reach in the side of their moutb, grab the tongue, pull it forward and wrap a knee hi panty hose around it and tie it under their bottom lip.
Being from the track world - tongue tying doesn't necessarily have anything to do with bleeders - a lot of trainers tie all their racing horses ...
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | turn3turnsok - 2016-12-23 7:45 AM total performance - 2016-12-22 5:05 PM mandita8907 - 2016-12-22 3:38 PM classicpotatochip - 2016-12-21 6:50 PM 5 ccs Lasix 4 hours out, a strong trot/lope program. I also started tying her tongue, which seems to have helped. I didn't have any change with supplements. When it's humid she gets a little more Lasix, and I'm very religious about after care and making sure she gets enough electrolytes after to ensure she drinks. I also soak the hay, just anything I can think of to get fluids back into her. Ran diagnostics on flappers, one was paralyzed and required surgery. What is tying their tongue? I have never heard of this Just what it says. Most Tb's get their tongues tied. Hpeople keep their airway open. You reach in the side of their moutb, grab the tongue, pull it forward and wrap a knee hi panty hose around it and tie it under their bottom lip. Being from the track world - tongue tying doesn't necessarily have anything to do with bleeders - a lot of trainers tie all their racing horses ...
This is true. I believe it has more to do with breathing than bleeding. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317
Location: MS | I have one that doesn't tolerate more than 3 of lasix. You may as well not run him.
He's getting a year off. Then he'll probably have a new job. Just not worth it.
We've been to so many vets and universities. He's had throat surgery and a total pulmonary workup.
I've spent a fortune trying so many supplements.
He has scar tissue in his lungs from where he's bled.
He's just a bleeder. No idea what causes it. |
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Forever Tan
Posts: 2925
Location: Wisconsin | Curious, anyone using Equipulmin with a bleeder with success? Were you able to stop lasix or use them together? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Greencastle PA | I have a bleeder also, I run him on Lasix 2cc 2 hours out and flair strips all the time. Took him to the vet was going to stop it all but vet said once a bleeder always going to be one, so I just keep him on and all seems to work. He has'nt bleed in 2 years. Good luck
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | I read alot of vet studies and different vet opinions when my horse started bleeding and this is something most don't consider.
A higher fat diet with the right fats and Horseshoer's Secret helped us. The reason is that the tissue was made healthier and therefore more elastic, which kept those blood vessels from bursting so easy. I did that and ran him on 3 cc and he never bled. He was in great shape. I rode hours a day away from the pattern. He's old now and lasted 8 years like that.
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Bleeder people: come tell your secrets..please :)