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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
   
Location: Dubach, LA | Gone wrong. Who has experience? Keep in mind this is an educated guess by a vet who is also a reiner. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Are you talking about blocking a tail so it stays still and lays flat? The western pleasure and hunt seat people do this and it is against the rules. I've seen some that end up getting nerve damage all the way into their hind end and it's not a pretty sight. I think they call the temporary block and alcohol block.
I went back and found this info for you.
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/21551/tail-blocking-gone-wrong
Edited by Nevertooold 2016-12-25 2:34 PM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I have heard the term of alochol and temporary block, but I dont know if laying down a tail is the same, never heard of that one.  |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | That's it? Vet said it would get better with time. I'm looking for personal experience. Thanks |
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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | Are you referring to blocking? Responders seem to not really know what you're referring to... |
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| CanCan - 2016-12-25 4:54 PM
That's it? Vet said it would get better with time. I'm looking for personal experience. Thanks
Laying down is a reference to cutting or scrapping to weaken a tendon
at the base of a horses tail to lay still in the crack of his butt.
This is outlawed due to many tail wringers, birddog tails or hiked tailed
horses never growing the tendon back and can't switch their tail for
flies and/or hike it to take a poop .... 90% are lifetime casualties ..
Tail pooping is a constant cleaning job to keep horse from scalding
between his rear legs and scrotum ... on a mare it gets even worse
due to her also peeing into her tail, creating a uterus infection and
problems at foaling and foal gets sick from the filth draining onto
the udder and teats ....
Halter, WP, English eventers, reiners and cutters are your main
victims of laying their tails ... if detected ... a short suspension
and/or a small fine is all the trainer/owner get ...
Judges for years have used movements of the tail as an excuse
to take away points by saying the horse is showing pain,
irritation, being sour or bad attitude when competing ...
Rather than a horse showing his effort or for balance while doing
his job.
It does not reduce the horses ability but is a lifetime aggravation
for the person caring for the horse ...... I would expect a decrease
in price if a horse's tail has been layered ...
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Yes. Blocking with alcohol. The vet said some trainers do it themselves. I don't know that this is what's wrong with mare. It just fits her symptoms. I was hoping someone had personal experience with the procedure and maybe a success story. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1611
Location: bring on the heat, NV | What are your mares symptoms? I understood that this procedure was quite common in reining and cowhorses? Ive heard they actually will tie the mares tails around to the side somehow to allow them to pee..... What a mess.... I heard somewhere about a horse that had this done to them prior to the current owners and it has a "kink" in it but the sensation to some extent came back though the horse doesnt swish flys well.... So a fly sheet is important during bug season. |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | She is new to me. Doesn't use her rear well. Stands camped out. Some atrophy on rump. I figured hocks but vet said her legs are good.
Edited by CanCan 2016-12-25 8:57 PM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| Bought a finished pleasure horse at auciton once from a "vet" yet she failed to discolose to us he was nerved in his tail and I consider that an unsoundness. Was told they tried the temp blocks and it made his tail crooked so they cut the nerve and he had no feeling in it if you poked it with a pen or needle (your best way to test your horse) and it was a struggle (especially in winter) to clean his butt daily since all the poop got stuck.
From my understanding the nerve does not grow back in most cases so I would assume if your horse can lift his tail to poop it woulnd't affect the hind end so much? I would maybe get a second opinion or xray some lower vertabrae? Or neuralogical? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| Or even something like PSSM (type 2 especially) can affect large muscle groups like the rump and when muscle wasting occurs, unexplained lameness and camping out from pain can happen. A lot of the type 2's get goose rump looking with the downhill slope from the muscle wasting away |
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 Star Padded Honey
Posts: 8890
Location: NW MT | cheeka77 - 2016-12-25 11:47 PM Or even something like PSSM (type 2 especially) can affect large muscle groups like the rump and when muscle wasting occurs, unexplained lameness and camping out from pain can happen. A lot of the type 2's get goose rump looking with the downhill slope from the muscle wasting away
YES! My first thought when she described the horse was one of the types of PSSM. I would start there. PSSM1 can be checked via hair follicles and Type2 is a muscle biopsy. Unfortunately, way too many vets know NOTHING about PSSSM or they think it is only tying up. There is a FB group - PSSM Forum - LOTS of info there.
As far as blocking a tail - it can be a horrible outcome. Good ol Tommy Manion used to do them himself on his clients' pleasure horses ... 2 friends had horses w/him & did not KNOW he did that to their horses ... both had reactions. One lost all use of her tail and the other one had horrendous infection in hers when she got home ... all her tail hair fell out. Thankfully they were able to get the infection cleared up & her hair grew back. Another injection "trick" they did was to inject around their neck/withers so they could only raise their heads so far. This also caused permanent damage to many of them. I think people that do this, need to have blocks done to THEM!  |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Thanks all. I'm off to learn about pssm2 |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Rockyroad - 2016-12-26 9:01 AM
cheeka77 - 2016-12-25 11:47 PM Or even something like PSSM (type 2 especially) can affect large muscle groups like the rump and when muscle wasting occurs, unexplained lameness and camping out from pain can happen. A lot of the type 2's get goose rump looking with the downhill slope from the muscle wasting away
YES! My first thought when she described the horse was one of the types of PSSM. I would start there. PSSM1 can be checked via hair follicles and Type2 is a muscle biopsy. Unfortunately, way too many vets know NOTHING about PSSSM or they think it is only tying up. There is a FB group - PSSM Forum - LOTS of info there.
As far as blocking a tail - it can be a horrible outcome. Good ol Tommy Manion used to do them himself on his clients' pleasure horses ... 2 friends had horses w/him & did not KNOW he did that to their horses ... both had reactions. One lost all use of her tail and the other one had horrendous infection in hers when she got home ... all her tail hair fell out. Thankfully they were able to get the infection cleared up & her hair grew back. Another injection "trick" they did was to inject around their neck/withers so they could only raise their heads so far. This also caused permanent damage to many of them. I think people that do this, need to have blocks done to THEM!
I need a FB link. All I come up with is a paranormal school where you learn to live a supernatural life when I searched for pssm. (It does sound interesting but...) |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| It looks like it's called PSSM Forum and it is a closed group. You have to ask to join. Here is a link
https://www.facebook.com/groups/202978353056065/
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 Saint Stacey
| An alcohol block will eventually wear off. They usually last about 6 months.
If it's a actual cut nerve or tendon scrape, those aren't very likely to come out and you will always have problems.
I'd say your first step is to figure out if it has been blocked, and if so what procedure was used. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | CanCan - 2016-12-25 8:56 PM She is new to me. Doesn't use her rear well. Stands camped out. Some atrophy on rump. I figured hocks but vet said her legs are good.
Sounds more like something is broken, I knew someone that had a horse set back broke its lead rope and fell back on it hind end really hard, broke its tail at the top and it also would stand camped could not use its hindend very well either after the accident.. Took to vet and thats what they found. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | The way she stands I would worry it is much higher than just the tail-hips, pelvis, sacrum etc. |
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 Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | wyoming barrel racer - 2016-12-26 2:24 PM
The way she stands I would worry it is much higher than just the tail-hips, pelvis, sacrum etc.
With this being said, I would suggest as complete of a body scan as possible to isolate the problem(s).
Warning: serious money could be involved going this route! |
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Star Padded Honey
Posts: 8890
Location: NW MT | CanCan - 2016-12-26 9:49 AM Rockyroad - 2016-12-26 9:01 AM cheeka77 - 2016-12-25 11:47 PM Or even something like PSSM (type 2 especially) can affect large muscle groups like the rump and when muscle wasting occurs, unexplained lameness and camping out from pain can happen. A lot of the type 2's get goose rump looking with the downhill slope from the muscle wasting away YES! My first thought when she described the horse was one of the types of PSSM. I would start there. PSSM1 can be checked via hair follicles and Type2 is a muscle biopsy. Unfortunately, way too many vets know NOTHING about PSSSM or they think it is only tying up. There is a FB group - PSSM Forum - LOTS of info there.
As far as blocking a tail - it can be a horrible outcome. Good ol Tommy Manion used to do them himself on his clients' pleasure horses ... 2 friends had horses w/him & did not KNOW he did that to their horses ... both had reactions. One lost all use of her tail and the other one had horrendous infection in hers when she got home ... all her tail hair fell out. Thankfully they were able to get the infection cleared up & her hair grew back. Another injection "trick" they did was to inject around their neck/withers so they could only raise their heads so far. This also caused permanent damage to many of them. I think people that do this, need to have blocks done to THEM! I need a FB link. All I come up with is a paranormal school where you learn to live a supernatural life when I searched for pssm. (It does sound interesting but... )
LOL! yep, I'd say that's not the correct one! :) Rodeo Veteran did post the correct one (thanks!) - but will repost here too.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/202978353056065/
There are some reallly knowledable people on there - post & ask questions, show pics, etc. They may want the bloodlines of the horse too for red flag bloodlines. |
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 Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | PSSM = polysaccharide storage myopathy. Not sure if I spelled all that correctly, but might help with google. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 891
| nevermind
Edited by okhorselover 2016-12-27 9:00 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| CanCan - 2016-12-25 8:56 PM
She is new to me. Doesn't use her rear well. Stands camped out. Some atrophy on rump. I figured hocks but vet said her legs are good.
Could be spinal damage, kissing spine,
could be shivers
Could be pssm
And could be hypp
Good luck I hope it is none of the above |
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"Laying down a tail"