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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
 
Location: Sweet Home Alabama | Y'all. I'm having the most discouraging time trying to fit my gelding properly. My Pro Rider (7" gullet) is too small for him. After Charon Caldwell suggested a Pro Max, I bought one. Wouldn't even fit on him. It was like a pony saddle. So she said to try a Maxed Out. I did and it sat down on his back but is wayyyyy too tight and slides back. She told me to go to an XL but I've pretty much lost faith in Caldwell's (and they aren't building anymore until spring). He's round, flat backed, with very wide shoulders. I'm lost as to where to look. I've spent about 9k on saddles for him and I'm losing hope. Y'all got any suggestions? |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
  
| I would try a Josey. You NEVER see these for sale because buyers love them . Josey's has a clinic in Newberry FL in Jan 27-29. I am sure if you call and ask for Ty Mitchell if he will bring saddles to try. Tell him your seat size and he will bring a regular and a wide tree to fit your horse. My paint horse is huge and my saddle is a regular tree. If you ask him to bring saddles give him the courtesy of showing up. Just for the record I wear a size 12 Jean and my seat is a 16 inch. Don't get a seat too small. My arse is not small and I saw a hefty lady buying a 14 inch seat which I know was too small. It took a little bit of riding go get used to it. My saddle was actually fitted to another horse I used to own but fits lardo well too. If you want to compare your horse to the one I had the saddle fitted to, go to the sale horses at Josey's and look at Star. She happened to end up for sale there. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I'm right there with you! It took me WAY too long and buying and selling WAY too many different saddles to find one that worked on my mare. Now she can't barrel race anymore and my 4yr old gelding has outgrown his mom's saddle. So now I get to do it all over again :( |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | You might look into a Tod Slone. Couple different trees and my combo saddle seems to fit just about anything within reason. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 656
| My crown c's fit the horses really good, just don't get too large of a gullet, I had my mare fitted, said she needed a 9.5. Could only find a 9, I think she could have went a little bit smaller. My mare was big in the shoulders and has a wide back. |
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 Member
Posts: 18
| Have you looked into the Roohide Saddles? You should give Brian a call. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If the Caldwell won't fit, there won't be much that will.
Martin saddlery crown c or fx3 have the big gullets, I am slowly transitioning all my saddles to crown c as I like to ride big shouldered horses, my guess is you would have to go with s 9.5/10 just by your description.
If you are going to a Martin, please try before you buy as they aren't for everyone. Also if you try an older crown c, don't order new as they changed the saddle entirely in 2015, I have now sent one back twice as it doesn't feel like the 2014.
If you find the older crown c models tipping your forward, try a 2015 and newer as they remade the tree to prevent this.
You may need to custom order a flat tree, there are some flat treed crown c saddles posted on the used fb page.
Other saddles you can try
Lisa Lockhart wide tree (this one fit my 11" gullet crown c mare so I thought but it made her buck. The flex plate would pinch her when I got on)
Tod Sloan b3 (I would put in the same dimensions of the Caldwell trees, but you never know)
Jeff smith saddles (his own barrel saddlewith the cutter tree, my neighbour borrowed my 10" gullet crown c it fit her horse perfectly (she was waiting for the Jeff smith custom) and the Jeff smith saddle fits her horse like a glove.
Tami Semas has a wide tree, but I haven't seen one in person, Jeff Smith makes these too.
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | If all else fails try a Bob Marshall sportsaddle. I had a big gelding that had the same issues. Soon as I put the SS on him he instantly ran 3 tenths faster. His stride was so much smoother because his shoulders were finally freed up. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 899
Location: Idaho | You're telling me!! I need to find a new saddle for my boy, he is almost done growing and he is round, mutton withered and flat backed. Sad part about this is.. My main gelding that passed away 2 1/2 years ago was flat backed, mutton withered and beyond round, and was as wide as he was tall (barely pushing 15 hands). I had a Cactus Charmayne James saddle and a Courts Sharon Camarillo. Both fit him amazingly..but I sold them, because they were too wide for my other horses when he passed. But now.. I'm looking at the exact same saddles for my gelding now because he needs a wide/flat backed saddle! oh the irony! lol
But the Cactus Charmayne James fits those wide backed, mutton withered wide shouldered horses. Same thing with the Courts Camarillo. If all else falls, go with a treeless Bob Marshall. It will fit any horse you put it on, because it does not have a tree and forms to the horse. And you can feel your horse move too.. I didn't like them because I thought they held you in too tight, and I like to move around. But for your horse.. you can't go wrong. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
Location: Sweet Home Alabama | cheryl makofka - 2017-01-01 6:03 PM
If the Caldwell won't fit, there won't be much that will.
Martin saddlery crown c or fx3 have the big gullets, I am slowly transitioning all my saddles to crown c as I like to ride big shouldered horses, my guess is you would have to go with s 9.5/10 just by your description.
If you are going to a Martin, please try before you buy as they aren't for everyone. Also if you try an older crown c, don't order new as they changed the saddle entirely in 2015, I have now sent one back twice as it doesn't feel like the 2014.
If you find the older crown c models tipping your forward, try a 2015 and newer as they remade the tree to prevent this.
You may need to custom order a flat tree, there are some flat treed crown c saddles posted on the used fb page.
Other saddles you can try
Lisa Lockhart wide tree (this one fit my 11" gullet crown c mare so I thought but it made her buck. The flex plate would pinch her when I got on)
Tod Sloan b3 (I would put in the same dimensions of the Caldwell trees, but you never know)
Jeff smith saddles (his own barrel saddlewith the cutter tree, my neighbour borrowed my 10" gullet crown c it fit her horse perfectly (she was waiting for the Jeff smith custom) and the Jeff smith saddle fits her horse like a glove.
Tami Semas has a wide tree, but I haven't seen one in person, Jeff Smith makes these too.
Tami Semas wide tree is like 6 3/4 or something. It's not even 7". I called about getting one made because my size is never available in a wide tree, but when they told me the widest they make was a 6" gullet, I got second thoughts. I wish I could try different makes on him but I'm not hauling anywhere lately and most of my friends have either a Pozzi or Pro Riders, which aren't for him. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | DashNDustem - 2017-01-01 9:07 PM
You're telling me!! I need to find a new saddle for my boy, he is almost done growing and he is round, mutton withered and flat backed. Sad part about this is.. My main gelding that passed away 2 1/2 years ago was flat backed, mutton withered and beyond round, and was as wide as he was tall (barely pushing 15 hands). I had a Cactus Charmayne James saddle and a Courts Sharon Camarillo. Both fit him amazingly..but I sold them, because they were too wide for my other horses when he passed. But now.. I'm looking at the exact same saddles for my gelding now because he needs a wide/flat backed saddle! oh the irony! lol
But the Cactus Charmayne James fits those wide backed, mutton withered wide shouldered horses. Same thing with the Courts Camarillo. If all else falls, go with a treeless Bob Marshall. It will fit any horse you put it on, because it does not have a tree and forms to the horse. And you can feel your horse move too.. I didn't like them because I thought they held you in too tight, and I like to move around. But for your horse.. you can't go wrong.
I'm actually in the process of trying to bail out the Courts Sharon Camarillo my stepfather pawned for $90! I'm still furious about it. However I have to convince him to go with me and let me get it since they won't release it to anyone but him. I'm really hoping it fits my gelding. I sold it since it was too wide for his momma. My parents ended up buying it back from the girl I sold it to. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Ashton94 - 2017-01-01 10:09 PM
cheryl makofka - 2017-01-01 6:03 PM
If the Caldwell won't fit, there won't be much that will.
Martin saddlery crown c or fx3 have the big gullets, I am slowly transitioning all my saddles to crown c as I like to ride big shouldered horses, my guess is you would have to go with s 9.5/10 just by your description.
If you are going to a Martin, please try before you buy as they aren't for everyone. Also if you try an older crown c, don't order new as they changed the saddle entirely in 2015, I have now sent one back twice as it doesn't feel like the 2014.
If you find the older crown c models tipping your forward, try a 2015 and newer as they remade the tree to prevent this.
You may need to custom order a flat tree, there are some flat treed crown c saddles posted on the used fb page.
Other saddles you can try
Lisa Lockhart wide tree (this one fit my 11" gullet crown c mare so I thought but it made her buck. The flex plate would pinch her when I got on)
Tod Sloan b3 (I would put in the same dimensions of the Caldwell trees, but you never know)
Jeff smith saddles (his own barrel saddlewith the cutter tree, my neighbour borrowed my 10" gullet crown c it fit her horse perfectly (she was waiting for the Jeff smith custom) and the Jeff smith saddle fits her horse like a glove.
Tami Semas has a wide tree, but I haven't seen one in person, Jeff Smith makes these too.
Tami Semas wide tree is like 6 3/4 or something. It's not even 7". I called about getting one made because my size is never available in a wide tree, but when they told me the widest they make was a 6" gullet, I got second thoughts. I wish I could try different makes on him but I'm not hauling anywhere lately and most of my friends have either a Pozzi or Pro Riders, which aren't for him.
The gullet doesn't matter as much in non crown c/fx3 saddles, it has to do with more of the angle of the bars.
For example the Jeff smith saddle is either a 6 3/4 or a 7, and that same horse fits a 10" crown c gullet. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | You could always get a custom tree made for his back. It will fit that way. As stated above, angle is probably more your issue than width. Most saddle makers use a narrower gullet than factory saddles. Mutton withered horses will always have a roll issue, even with a perfect fit. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Ashton94 - 2017-01-01 10:09 PM
cheryl makofka - 2017-01-01 6:03 PM
If the Caldwell won't fit, there won't be much that will.
Martin saddlery crown c or fx3 have the big gullets, I am slowly transitioning all my saddles to crown c as I like to ride big shouldered horses, my guess is you would have to go with s 9.5/10 just by your description.
If you are going to a Martin, please try before you buy as they aren't for everyone. Also if you try an older crown c, don't order new as they changed the saddle entirely in 2015, I have now sent one back twice as it doesn't feel like the 2014.
If you find the older crown c models tipping your forward, try a 2015 and newer as they remade the tree to prevent this.
You may need to custom order a flat tree, there are some flat treed crown c saddles posted on the used fb page.
Other saddles you can try
Lisa Lockhart wide tree (this one fit my 11" gullet crown c mare so I thought but it made her buck. The flex plate would pinch her when I got on)
Tod Sloan b3 (I would put in the same dimensions of the Caldwell trees, but you never know)
Jeff smith saddles (his own barrel saddlewith the cutter tree, my neighbour borrowed my 10" gullet crown c it fit her horse perfectly (she was waiting for the Jeff smith custom) and the Jeff smith saddle fits her horse like a glove.
Tami Semas has a wide tree, but I haven't seen one in person, Jeff Smith makes these too.
Tami Semas wide tree is like 6 3/4 or something. It's not even 7". I called about getting one made because my size is never available in a wide tree, but when they told me the widest they make was a 6" gullet, I got second thoughts. I wish I could try different makes on him but I'm not hauling anywhere lately and most of my friends have either a Pozzi or Pro Riders, which aren't for him.
Gullet measurement will have some bearing, but not much. Bar angle is the bigger deal. I wish I had taken some side by side pictures of a saddle I sold and one of my triple creeks. My tc's are 7" gullets, this was a 6 3/4"gullet with a very flat bar angle. Side by side comparison would have shown this concept very very well.
It fit my rope horse well and hes about the widest thing I've ever seen. For what it's worth it was an Infinity. it was a one off custom order though, not a mass produced saddle.
Ditto to the crown c/fx3 - I think the axis trees work well on big shouldered horses. I've also heard good things about the Jeff smiths and that cactus runs flatter in the bars.
It's worth a bit of a haul if you can get to a tack shop with a knowledgeable saddle fitter and a variety of quality tack. Folks on here can give you suggestions based on your location too :) |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| There is a contraption that someone is selling in Alberta where you put it on their back and it makes a quick mould of their back. It is reusable, made out of wood, costs 200. I have seen it on Facebook, it may help you figure out what you need. |
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Regular
Posts: 62
| I just bought a cactus cj for my mare. My billy cook was starting to pinch. She is now 4 and has grown and changed so much, big wide shoulders. The cj sits on her well and gives her room to move. I went ahead and bought a CSI to use with it for the time being, I also have a 5 star I can switch out to as she fills out even more. I know a few people that ride in the cjs and nothing but good things to say and all provide nice shoulder clearance for the wider horses. I found mine used online for a good price, I've seen about 6 more listed for sale as well. Good luck in your search! |
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Regular
Posts: 71
| I went thur exact same thing with the Caldwells..& every other saddle on market trying to fit my big blue roan. Spent tons $$$$$$. Finally met with Tami Semas (made by Jeff Smith) & tried one of her wide fit saddles... It worked, I was like holy cow...finally. Don't know if it will work for your horse but he sounds like he is built alot like mine.
Don't get caught up on the gullet width....thats what I did for so long & as one poster said it's more about the angle of the bar.
Edited by sjoyner 2017-01-02 8:41 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 784
Location: USA | sjoyner - 2017-01-02 8:33 AM I went thur exact same thing with the Caldwells..& every other saddle on market trying to fit my big blue roan. Spent tons $$$$$$. Finally met with Tami Semas (made by Jeff Smith) & tried one of her wide fit saddles... It worked, I was like holy cow...finally. Don't know if it will work for your horse but he sounds like he is built alot like mine. Don't get caught up on the gullet width....thats what I did for so long & as one poster said it's more about the angle of the bar.
How wide of a caldwell did you try on your horse? Can you post pictures of your horse your tami fit. Thanks |
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 Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | ahem... treeless! I went through the same thing with my mare, she sounds like she's built like your horse.
ETA: no rolling, sliding, pinching, soreness, her chiro said she looks great, its secure, and not trap feeling. I bought a Jackie
Edited by redmansmyman11 2017-01-02 2:08 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
Location: Sweet Home Alabama | redmansmyman11 - 2017-01-02 2:06 PM
ahem... treeless! I went through the same thing with my mare, she sounds like she's built like your horse.
ETA: no rolling, sliding, pinching, soreness, her chiro said she looks great, its secure, and not trap feeling. I bought a Jackie
Do they get sore with treeless? Idk anything about them other than what I read on here. Seems like folks either love or hate them - no in between. |
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Regular
Posts: 71
| Lookin For Diamonds - 2017-01-02 2:01 PM
sjoyner - 2017-01-02 8:33 AM I went thur exact same thing with the Caldwells..& every other saddle on market trying to fit my big blue roan. Spent tons $$$$$$. Finally met with Tami Semas (made by Jeff Smith) & tried one of her wide fit saddles... It worked, I was like holy cow...finally. Don't know if it will work for your horse but he sounds like he is built alot like mine. Don't get caught up on the gullet width....thats what I did for so long & as one poster said it's more about the angle of the bar.
How wide of a caldwell did you try on your horse? Can you post pictures of your horse your tami fit. Thanks
I had Caldwell ProMax..sent it back...they shaved the bars on the tree which made it worse. I will try & get you some pics of my Tami on him. Do you have an email address I can send them too because I can never get pics to upload on here. |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Ashton94 - 2017-01-02 1:25 PM redmansmyman11 - 2017-01-02 2:06 PM ahem... treeless! I went through the same thing with my mare, she sounds like she's built like your horse. ETA: no rolling, sliding, pinching, soreness, her chiro said she looks great, its secure, and not trap feeling. I bought a Jackie Do they get sore with treeless? Idk anything about them other than what I read on here. Seems like folks either love or hate them - no in between.
For a hard to fit horse I'd definitely consider one. I had never ridden in one and was pleasantly surprised. Good sweat pattern too! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 784
Location: USA | sjoyner - 2017-01-02 6:49 PM Lookin For Diamonds - 2017-01-02 2:01 PM sjoyner - 2017-01-02 8:33 AM I went thur exact same thing with the Caldwells..& every other saddle on market trying to fit my big blue roan. Spent tons $$$$$$. Finally met with Tami Semas (made by Jeff Smith) & tried one of her wide fit saddles... It worked, I was like holy cow...finally. Don't know if it will work for your horse but he sounds like he is built alot like mine. Don't get caught up on the gullet width....thats what I did for so long & as one poster said it's more about the angle of the bar. How wide of a caldwell did you try on your horse? Can you post pictures of your horse your tami fit. Thanks I had Caldwell ProMax..sent it back...they shaved the bars on the tree which made it worse. I will try & get you some pics of my Tami on him. Do you have an email address I can send them too because I can never get pics to upload on here.
sent you a pm |
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Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | Ashton94 - 2017-01-02 2:25 PM
redmansmyman11 - 2017-01-02 2:06 PM
ahem... treeless! I went through the same thing with my mare, she sounds like she's built like your horse.
ETA: no rolling, sliding, pinching, soreness, her chiro said she looks great, its secure, and not trap feeling. I bought a Jackie
Do they get sore with treeless? Idk anything about them other than what I read on here. Seems like folks either love or hate them - no in between.
Nope! She's never been sore with it and I ride a lot. The feel took a little getting used to but I've never felt trapped in it. I got a larger seat size so I would have room to move around and I just make sure whatever pad I use has spinal clearance.
I've ridden it on a lot of different horses but none as frequently as my mare and I haven't had anyone get sore. I'm an equine massage therapist so have a little knowledge as far as checking soreness etc. and she sees a chiro when I feel like she needs it. Her back is never sore. Now we honestly don't see the chiro very much since the switch (were seeing him every couple months because of continuing saddle issues), she holds up really well and if she does need work its been unrelated to saddle issues. She fell in the pasture and her neck was out of whack, and that's been it. |
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Expert
Posts: 2678
Location: Mi | I'm going to agree with redmansmyman11. I also had a hard time finding something to fit my mare. I bought a marlene by cactus with a flex tree in it and had pretty good luck. Last winter I got curious about the treeless saddles, more so then I had been, I ended up buying a Jackie used end of winter begining of spring and I'd never rode in a treeless before. I took a chance and figured if I didn't like it I would sell it. I have rode my mare in it sense and LOVE IT. I usually ride in a 14.5" seat and I went to a 15.5" in it. I feel secure, but not trapped, my legs stay where they should and I can get up when I need to. My mares back has been great all year, her withers were out once mid summer, but thats been it. I ride her with a 3/4" 5 Star under it. Its a wide fit. It doesn't roll, pinch, nothing. I like it so well I ordered a new one how I wanted it and am going to sell the used one. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | bumping up.. |
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Saddle woes..