Nateracer - 2017-01-04 8:32 AM What I was trying to determine out of that post was if you can enroll any stud now if willing to pay the fee and he meets the requirements.  

Whiteboy - 2017-01-04 9:50 AM

Most small time breeders arent going to be able to pay the $2,800 each year.  So I dont see the program going to crap overnight.  My bet is you are going to see the same stallions in the program, and you will see the lower tier stallions come and go.  The benefit is that there will be more money available to everybody participating, but it will still be the top shelf stallions, breeders, and owners winning it.  To be honest, I'm excited for the change, even though I'm sure it will take some time to work out the bugs.  

casualdust07 - 2017-01-04 10:13 AM People used to complain that FF was an insider "club" where people who had connections could get their stallion in when others had to wait 5 years or whatever on the wait list. Those same people now complain that FF is open to everyone.. Which I mean, if I had to wait 5 years to get into a club and then now that I'm in everyone else gets to come in too, I would probably be a little upset over it. But, I also think that's a bit childish to want to stay exclusive now that you're in the "club" since it was hard for you to get in and now your friends can get in without waiting. As a mare owner and breeder, I am thrilled that it is open for everyone now. There were times when I scrolled and scrolled on the FF website looking for something new or fresh. Some stallion owners have complained that after having joined FF, their books haven't increased at all. But in my opinion, FF is only one part of what makes a stallion desirable.

casualdust07 - 2017-01-04 10:13 AM People used to complain that FF was an insider "club" where people who had connections could get their stallion in when others had to wait 5 years or whatever on the wait list. Those same people now complain that FF is open to everyone.. Which I mean, if I had to wait 5 years to get into a club and then now that I'm in everyone else gets to come in too, I would probably be a little upset over it. But, I also think that's a bit childish to want to stay exclusive now that you're in the "club" since it was hard for you to get in and now your friends can get in without waiting. As a mare owner and breeder, I am thrilled that it is open for everyone now. There were times when I scrolled and scrolled on the FF website looking for something new or fresh. Some stallion owners have complained that after having joined FF, their books haven't increased at all. But in my opinion, FF is only one part of what makes a stallion desirable.

Whiteboy - 2017-01-04 10:50 AM

Most small time breeders arent going to be able to pay the $2,800 each year.  So I dont see the program going to crap overnight.  My bet is you are going to see the same stallions in the program, and you will see the lower tier stallions come and go.  The benefit is that there will be more money available to everybody participating, but it will still be the top shelf stallions, breeders, and owners winning it.  To be honest, I'm excited for the change, even though I'm sure it will take some time to work out the bugs.  

mbcruel21 - 2017-01-04 10:29 AM


Since I am sure this was directed about my post, I am going to add my opinion. The issue that I have is yes we waited our time, 9 yrs to be exact, when the spot was offered we had to take it, knowing that our stallion was not going to have babies old enough to run for 5 years.... 5 years multiplied by $2500...that is $12,500 that has been paid into out of pocket because we HAD to take the spot or we would lose the option. Then lets add the fact that most people have no idea that the stallion owners are funding this program at over $600,000 a year coming from stallion owners we only get a return of 10%, which from everyone I have talked to is actually less that ONE PERCENT on rate of return for the stallion owners.  Every stallion owner that has a spot did it to because it makes the babies worth a small percentage more, thats is the ONLY return we get it on our investment. We sure as heck dont get any thank yous for spending tens of thousands of dollars so that the colts and whom ever owns them at the time they are competing get that extra money.  Future Fortunes is a wonderful program for the people who own the offspring, it doesnt pay like a slot machine for the stallion owners  contrary to what every seems to think. Stallion owners put their horses in these programs to please the mare owners and the people who are running the babies. We do it because we believe in our horse and his ability to produce something that is successful.  

ThreeCorners - 2017-01-04 10:48 AM

 They are saying in 2018 all older foals from previously enrolled stallions who did not enroll as foals will be able to enroll for $500. No longer will be the huge fee to enroll older horses who did not enroll.

Serenity06 - 2017-01-04 9:58 AM The way they have explained it multiple times on their facebook page is the stallion only has to of covered 25 mares, the foals don't have to be registered or even born yet.

Whiteboy - 2017-01-04 10:50 AM Yesterday a girl asked Mary Ellen what if the foal was out of a grade mare... Her relpy was that the foal had to be registered with the Half Quarter Registry before it could be counted toward the 25.  She then clarified that they must have 25 registered foals because stallion reports are not verifiable to anybody but the stallion owner and AQHA.  

ETA: This appears to be one of the kinks they need to work out.
 

Whiteboy - 2017-01-04 9:50 AM

Yesterday a girl asked Mary Ellen what if the foal was out of a grade mare... Her relpy was that the foal had to be registered with the Half Quarter Registry before it could be counted toward the 25.  She then clarified that they must have 25 registered foals because stallion reports are not verifiable to anybody but the stallion owner and AQHA.  

ETA: This appears to be one of the kinks they need to work out.
 

Whiteboy - 2017-01-04 10:51 AM

The ones I feel bad for are all the fools that just forked over $10,000 for their FF spot.  Haha.  

iheartrodeo - 2017-01-04 11:27 AM I don't know much about FF. Dumb ?....So, if a stallion drops out of FF, what happens to their enrolled foals? Since their sire is no longer in the program are they no longer eligible for $ or are the foals enrolled for life no matter?







 

iheartrodeo - 2017-01-04 11:27 AM

I don't know much about FF. Dumb ?....So, if a stallion drops out of FF, what happens to their enrolled foals? Since their sire is no longer in the program are they no longer eligible for $ or are the foals enrolled for life no matter?



 

ThreeCorners - 2017-01-04 12:10 PM

 Being the analytical mind I have, the more I thought about this the more I think this could be a very bad thing. I do feel for the horses that waited on the list, and those that have paid in when their stallions were very young to fork over thousands knowing they had to wait years to even start to see a return. Now any Tom Dick and Harry can jump in. Also with the $200 foal enrollment and first year enrollment, and then changing older horses that didnt enroll as foals at a stallions first year for next year $500. There will be hundreds of cheap enrolled horses now in spreading the pot thinner and thinner. I could see stallions, like old horses still alive enrolling 1 year, getting their older foals in and dropping out. I can see stallions enrolling one year, drop out, waiting a couple years and enrolling again. Spreading the pot thinner and thinner yet not contributing much. I sure will be watching to see what they do with this. They need to add clauses once a horse drops out he's out forever. They should probably also add clauses that a stallion must breed 10? or so mares a year to sustain. Other wise, really, what is the prestige of having a FF horse when they will be on every street corner earning peanuts. Just some thoughts running through my mind.

mbcruel21 - 2017-01-04 12:13 PM

powerstroke power - 2017-01-04 1:43 PM I thought of this as well...If futurities are 4 years old (some are 5), wouldn't the stallion only need to enroll every 4 or 5 years? It'd be cheaper to nominate @ $500 for an older foal than to nominate a stallion each year. You could also pick which young horses seem more worthly of enrolling as they age.

ThreeCorners - 2017-01-04 1:10 PM

 Being the analytical mind I have, the more I thought about this the more I think this could be a very bad thing. I do feel for the horses that waited on the list, and those that have paid in when their stallions were very young to fork over thousands knowing they had to wait years to even start to see a return. Now any Tom Dick and Harry can jump in. Also with the $200 foal enrollment and first year enrollment, and then changing older horses that didnt enroll as foals at a stallions first year for next year $500. There will be hundreds of cheap enrolled horses now in spreading the pot thinner and thinner. I could see stallions, like old horses still alive enrolling 1 year, getting their older foals in and dropping out. I can see stallions enrolling one year, drop out, waiting a couple years and enrolling again. Spreading the pot thinner and thinner yet not contributing much. I sure will be watching to see what they do with this. They need to add clauses once a horse drops out he's out forever. They should probably also add clauses that a stallion must breed 10? or so mares a year to sustain. Other wise, really, what is the prestige of having a FF horse when they will be on every street corner earning peanuts. Just some thoughts running through my mind.

tothebrim - 2017-01-04 1:21 PM


This is basically what I was trying to get at with my earlier statement, but your wording is much better than mine! I'm so glad someone feels the same! I dont think its going to go to crap quick... but i will be watching overtime to see how it all plays out.

casualdust07 - 2017-01-04 1:44 PM The only things I will add are, there are plenty of cheap horses in FF now. There's plenty of small scale stallions that have been in FF whose babies do not sell for boat loads of money. There's plenty of stallions on there, that have been on there for years, that do not breed a lot of mares. There's even some on there who don't stand to the public. I don't think it's going to downgrade the quality of the horses in FF because there's already a huge range of horses in the program. ETA- i wanted to make sure no one takes offense to the word cheap. Because, I don't mean cheap is bad. But it's true- there's a huge range of horses you can already buy that are PIF to future fortunes that sell for under 5k. Doesn't make them bad either, just saying that it's never been just elite stallions selling super pricey babies.

ThreeCorners - 2017-01-04 1:56 PM


I believe you misunderstood what I meant by cheap horses. I probably didnt clarify well as I was typing on my phone. lol. By cheap horses I meant horses jumping in for one year for a one time enrollment fee just to get all that horses foals in, some will be older horses, and then dropping out. Collecting checks year after year but only contributing to the pot one time. OR, stallions jumping in and out every five years or so , contributing very little compared to stallions who stay enrolled every year. Plus, if now all older foals even from previously enrolled stallions can get in for $500, then they to have jumped in cheap, contributing little to the pot. Thus really, cheapening the whole program. Thats what I meant by cheap. Hope that clarified it.

evf - 2017-01-04 11:24 AM Can you explain this to me. I'm not very familiar with how FF works. Who pays 10,000 for what?

ThreeCorners - 2017-01-04 12:10 PM

 Being the analytical mind I have, the more I thought about this the more I think this could be a very bad thing. I do feel for the horses that waited on the list, and those that have paid in when their stallions were very young to fork over thousands knowing they had to wait years to even start to see a return. Now any Tom Dick and Harry can jump in. Also with the $200 foal enrollment and first year enrollment, and then changing older horses that didnt enroll as foals at a stallions first year for next year $500. There will be hundreds of cheap enrolled horses now in spreading the pot thinner and thinner. I could see stallions, like old horses still alive enrolling 1 year, getting their older foals in and dropping out. I can see stallions enrolling one year, drop out, waiting a couple years and enrolling again. Spreading the pot thinner and thinner yet not contributing much. I sure will be watching to see what they do with this. They need to add clauses once a horse drops out he's out forever. They should probably also add clauses that a stallion must breed 10? or so mares a year to sustain. Other wise, really, what is the prestige of having a FF horse when they will be on every street corner earning peanuts. Just some thoughts running through my mind.

Barrelhorsehelp1 - 2017-01-04 12:39 PM EXACTLY! what a shame just any and every horse can be FF now.

TheOldGrayMare - 2017-01-04 2:46 PM Well that's a little exaggerated. The foal would have to be by a FF stallion to enroll....you can't just pay in because you want to join the club.

mbcruel21 - 2017-01-04 3:06 PM I think what ThreeCorners is trying to say is there are stallions out there that are lets say 20 and have 150 foals, they can pay that stallion in for one year and all of those foals can be grandfathered in for $200 a piece and then they can drop him after the first year. So 150 foals are FF eligible now at the intro rate, the stallion paid in ONE year and they are running for the money that the other stallion owners have paid in every year.

mbcruel21 - 2017-01-04 11:13 AM

casualdust07 - 2017-01-04 9:41 AM I did read your post but I have seen many posts about FF over the past couple of years and from talking to stallion owners themselves about whether to pay in or not so I wasn't directing anything at you personally. I'm not a stallion owner, so I look at breeder incentives on what they can do for me- a breeder and owner of the colts, not on the stallion side of things. I'm sure my opinion may be different if it affected me in a different way. I don't think Future Fortunes was ever designed to benefit stallion owners more than other facets of the market, it was designed to pay out the owners of the competing horses. The other incentive programs tend to favor the stallion owner over the breeder. FF pays the owner of the horse 70%, then breeder 20% then stallion owner 10% Triple Crown places the stallion owner over the breeder And then BBR select stallion stakes, from what it looks like, only pays the owner of the foal and the stallion owner.

mbcruel21 - 2017-01-04 1:06 PM I think what ThreeCorners is trying to say is there are stallions out there that are lets say 20 and have 150 foals, they can pay that stallion in for one year and all of those foals can be grandfathered in for $200 a piece and then they can drop him after the first year. So 150 foals are FF eligible now at the intro rate, the stallion paid in ONE year and they are running for the money that the other stallion owners have paid in every year.

casualdust07 - 2017-01-04 11:13 AM

People used to complain that FF was an insider "club" where people who had connections could get their stallion in when others had to wait 5 years or whatever on the wait list. Those same people now complain that FF is open to everyone.. Which I mean, if I had to wait 5 years to get into a club and then now that I'm in everyone else gets to come in too, I would probably be a little upset over it. But, I also think that's a bit childish to want to stay exclusive now that you're in the "club" since it was hard for you to get in and now your friends can get in without waiting.


As a mare owner and breeder, I am thrilled that it is open for everyone now. There were times when I scrolled and scrolled on the FF website looking for something new or fresh.


Some stallion owners have complained that after having joined FF, their books haven't increased at all. But in my opinion, FF is only one part of what makes a stallion desirable.

wyoming barrel racer - 2017-01-04 3:21 PM I can answer 2 questions asked here, I just read a lot of what the FF founder put on facebook. It says in the first post when you can enroll new stallions-Nomination dates for NEW Stallions only will be from March 15 - May 15 of the year prior to enrollment.



And once you enroll a stallion, if you choose to let him drop out, you can NEVER re enroll him. So that won't be an issue. There will be kinks to any program, but this will eliminate the BS that came with the waiting list. I saw more and more yearlings- coming 2 yr olds newly enrolled at the same time  I saw friends with stallions waiting 10+ yrs. The stallion list kept growing...and even though I know a "few" people dropped out, not enough to watch #'s grow with youngsters when others waited a decade to get in.



I said it on facebook, this isn't going to change much. You'll have every Tom Dick & Harry enroll their stallion. Some will be good, some not so much. Many will drop when they aren't seeing an increase in mares coming to their romeo. The point is this!! If a stallion isn't already manly enough to get a full book of mares, enrolling him in incentives will not help. The point of incentives is to make it worth it to those people that are paying high stud fees and paying top dollar for those babies, to have a way to win some of that back (FF, Breeders Futurities etc). 

Whiteboy - 2017-01-04 9:40 AM

You can enroll any stallion that has at least 25 registered babies and you are willing to pay $2,800 each year.  

appycans - 2017-01-04 4:38 PM Does this mean that they can pay $2800 and finally get DTF enrolled?

BARRELHORSE USA - 2017-01-04 4:36 PM


READ IT AGAIN ....

25 MARES COVERED ON STALLIONS ENTIRE LIFE TIME BREEDING REPORT ...

NOMINATION IS THIS YEAR 2017
(this gives FF time to setup up new stallion list for 2018 with
normal grandfather clauses)
AND OFFICIAL ENROLLMENT WILL HAPPEN IN 2018 ...

SO THERE IS NO CONFUSION OR WHO IS NEW AND ALREADY ENROLLED
... ONLY THE NEW STALLIONS NOMINATION
FORM WILL BE ON FF SITE.. LATER THIS MONTH ....FOR YEAR OF 2017 FOR ENROLLEMENT IN 2018............ ((THEY LEFT OFF THE ... LATER..... THIS MONTH ..))

***************************************************
AS WRITTEN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>........
* Stallion must provide official Stallion Reports showing 25 mares have been COVERED ( NOT per year or foals registered )
* Nomination dates for NEW Stallions only will be from March 15 - May 15 of the year prior to enrollment.
* New Stallion only nomination form will be on the FF website this month.
***********************************************************

I always cringe when announcements are made before the old rules are changed and new forms are not posted !! (with examples of filled in forms)

Once this new pool of stallions is fully enrolled in 2018 ... I would expect FF to consolidate their side pots AND STOP ALLOWING owners to buy into them and to start running some FUTURE FORTUNE FUTURITIES, DERBIES and 5D JACKPOTS under the FUTURE FORTUNES NAME EXCLUSIVELY FOR FF FOALS ....

WITH THE SIMPLE RULE ... TO EARN FF MONEY YOU MUST RUN THE PATTERN TO EARN ANY FF MONEY!!