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Location: Texas | With a horse that is running bred mixed with cow bred, do you prefer a running bred stallion crossed on a cow mare or a cow stallion on a running mare? Or does it make a difference?? |
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| I personally prefer cow bred mares, but both ways have been successful. I am pickier about which lines cross vs if it is coming from the dam or sire. |
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| M&M3114 - 2017-01-19 11:31 PM
With a horse that is running bred mixed with cow bred, do you prefer a running bred stallion crossed on a cow mare or a cow stallion on a running mare? Or does it make a difference??
NEITHER ...
cow vs race lines have two totally different conformations ..
you can't have a Nascar by adding a Volkswagen engine ... lol
You need pedigrees with speed on top and bottom ..
which includes your famous barrel horse families as horses with speed .. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| BARRELHORSE USA - 2017-01-20 6:42 AM M&M3114 - 2017-01-19 11:31 PM With a horse that is running bred mixed with cow bred, do you prefer a running bred stallion crossed on a cow mare or a cow stallion on a running mare? Or does it make a difference?? NEITHER ... cow vs race lines have two totally different conformations .. you can't have a Nascar by adding a Volkswagen engine ... lol You need pedigrees with speed on top and bottom .. which includes your famous barrel horse families as horses with speed ..
This might be close to the dumbest thing that's ever come out of your keyboard. 
Go tell Lisa Lockhart that you can't have run and cow. Or Mary Burger. 
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
| Nateracer - 2017-01-20 7:33 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2017-01-20 6:42 AM M&M3114 - 2017-01-19 11:31 PM With a horse that is running bred mixed with cow bred, do you prefer a running bred stallion crossed on a cow mare or a cow stallion on a running mare? Or does it make a difference?? NEITHER ... cow vs race lines have two totally different conformations .. you can't have a Nascar by adding a Volkswagen engine ... lol You need pedigrees with speed on top and bottom .. which includes your famous barrel horse families as horses with speed ..
Amen, sister! I almost spit out my coffee when I read BARRELHORSE USA'S post. What in the holy hell, man?  |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Wow BarrelhorseUSA - you need a fact check and maybe check the stats
To the OP - I tend to like running bred on maternal side. When we used to do some breeding, we had a nice cutting bred stud and I always felt more comfortable breeding a small horse to a big mare vs a big stud to a small mare for birthing.
However, not sure if it makes any difference other than that. Just how it worked out for us.
Last mare I bought was also cow on top, running on bottom. |
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Regular
Posts: 84
| I prefer cow on bottom, run on top!  |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| Just for the record, Doc Bar was a grandson of Three Bars through Lightning Bars. (If you will google Doc Bar, he was bred to be a race horse) Back in the 1950's and 60's Quarter horses did it all. Smooth Herman who was world champion cutting horse was by Jet Smooth. Just another example of how Quarter horses were used for everything. Three Bars, who was a thoroughbred, was probably the thoroughbred who had the most influence on the Quarter horse industry. So, no the DOC BAR line is not really cowhorse.
Mary Burgers horse goes back to Doc Bar and Lightning Bar (through Laughing Boy). You have a big dose of Three Bars on his top side also. Driftwood IS a cowhorse but with so much running horse, it is kind of overridden.
In the 1960's some neighbors owned Sugar Bar Leo, a son of Sugar Bars. Their main interest was interest was racing so the daughters barrel raced.
So if you do not want to read all that, the DOC BAR line is not cowhorse breeding.
Edited by streakysox 2017-01-20 9:31 AM
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | streakysox - 2017-01-20 10:30 AM Just for the record, Doc Bar was a grandson of Three Bars through Lightning Bars. (If you will google Doc Bar, he was bred to be a race horse) Back in the 1950's and 60's Quarter horses did it all. Smooth Herman who was world champion cutting horse was by Jet Smooth. Just another example of how Quarter horses were used for everything. Three Bars, who was a thoroughbred, was probably the thoroughbred who had the most influence on the Quarter horse industry. So, no the DOC BAR line is not really cowhorse. Mary Burgers horse goes back to Doc Bar and Lightning Bar (through Laughing Boy). You have a big dose of Three Bars on his top side also. Driftwood IS a cowhorse but with so much running horse, it is kind of overridden. In the 1960's some neighbors owned Sugar Bar Leo, a son of Sugar Bars. Their main interest was interest was racing so the daughters barrel raced. So if you do not want to read all that, the DOC BAR line is not cowhorse breeding.
you sure go out of your way to defend the dumb things he says.
How come?
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 575
| I always get a good chuckle out of BHUSA's view on this.
I have colts bred with speed on top/cow on bottom. BUT I have heard that the size of a colts heart (literally not figuratively) is passed from their maternal side? If that's the case (bad bad me, I have not fact checked that) then I would think breeding cow on top/run on bottom would be ideal. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | I have had great success with Hancock lines crossed on Jet Deck bred mares.
I also love Paddys Irish Whiskey or Playgun crossed on run.
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Member
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| If you're looking at what horses were originally bred to do, then you have to call Driftwood a racehorse as well. It seems to me that everything goes back to running horses. Look at halter horses, Impressive was bred a lot like Doc Bar. Even Western Pleasure horses, most of them go back to Zippo Pat Bars, an own son of Three Bars out of an own daughter of Leo. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| 1DSoon - 2017-01-20 9:46 AM
streakysox - 2017-01-20 10:30 AM Just for the record, Doc Bar was a grandson of Three Bars through Lightning Bars. (If you will google Doc Bar, he was bred to be a race horse) Back in the 1950's and 60's Quarter horses did it all. Smooth Herman who was world champion cutting horse was by Jet Smooth. Just another example of how Quarter horses were used for everything. Three Bars, who was a thoroughbred, was probably the thoroughbred who had the most influence on the Quarter horse industry. So, no the DOC BAR line is not really cowhorse. Mary Burgers horse goes back to Doc Bar and Lightning Bar (through Laughing Boy). You have a big dose of Three Bars on his top side also. Driftwood IS a cowhorse but with so much running horse, it is kind of overridden. In the 1960's some neighbors owned Sugar Bar Leo, a son of Sugar Bars. Their main interest was interest was racing so the daughters barrel raced. So if you do not want to read all that, the DOC BAR line is not cowhorse breeding.
you sure go out of your way to defend the dumb things he says.
How come?
BHUSA was not the person who posted anything about Lisa Lockhart's horse and Mary Burger's horse. Maybe redhead? I was just clarifying that DOC BAR was running horse bred and I love to see what kind of inane remarks I can extract from the knowledgeable. |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| tx123 - 2017-01-20 10:04 AM If you're looking at what horses were originally bred to do, then you have to call Driftwood a racehorse as well. It seems to me that everything goes back to running horses. Look at halter horses, Impressive was bred a lot like Doc Bar. Even Western Pleasure horses, most of them go back to Zippo Pat Bars, an own son of Three Bars out of an own daughter of Leo.
Pretty sure Impressive was bred to be a race horse that didn't race...But I can't quite remember. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 615
Location: Wyoming | BARRELHORSE USA - 2017-01-20 6:42 AM
M&M3114 - 2017-01-19 11:31 PM
With a horse that is running bred mixed with cow bred, do you prefer a running bred stallion crossed on a cow mare or a cow stallion on a running mare? Or does it make a difference??
NEITHER ...
cow vs race lines have two totally different conformations ..
you can't have a Nascar by adding a Volkswagen engine ... lol
You need pedigrees with speed on top and bottom ..
which includes your famous barrel horse families as horses with speed ..
Tell that to Blazin Jetolena!! Dumbest thing I've ever heard! |
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 Expert
Posts: 1611
Location: bring on the heat, NV | I prefer run on top with something more old school on the bottom with a little of the new cowbred lines in there. Im all about blending. Like Jackie Bee, Sir Quincy Dan, Driftwood, (id like to try sunfrost etc btu havent so cant vouch) that general big all around bred horses that had size, brains and could still rate a cow. |
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  Ms. Marine
Posts: 4641
Location: Texas | It doesn't make a difference to me! I love my cow x running bred horses. |
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Veteran
Posts: 268
| ecranch - 2017-01-20 9:56 AM
I have had great success with Hancock lines crossed on Jet Deck bred mares.
I also love Paddys Irish Whiskey or Playgun crossed on run.
You may like a 2 yr old I have...daughter of Eds Little Whiskey(PIW x dtr of Doc O Dynamite) X AAA grandaughter of Sunfrost. She will be started this year! |
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Veteran
Posts: 158
| As for the conformation comment about cow vs race being so different, go look at Corona Cartel. We saw him this summer and he could waltz into the NCHA hall of fame and fit right in. |
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Member
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Location: Texas | gunner07 - 2017-01-20 12:09 AM
I personally prefer cow bred mares, but both ways have been successful. I am pickier about which lines cross vs if it is coming from the dam or sire.
Which lines and crosses do you like best?
Edited by M&M3114 2017-01-20 8:33 PM
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Veteran
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| M&M3114 - 2017-01-20 8:09 PM
gunner07 - 2017-01-20 12:09 AM
I personally prefer cow bred mares, but both ways have been successful. I am pickier about which lines cross vs if it is coming from the dam or sire.
Which lines do you like best?
Playgun, Dual Rey, Docs Hickory, line bred Doc O'lena are my favorites. I have a Docs Prescription mare I am loving too but she is playgun & smart little lena so I'm already partial to her. |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | My stud horse was by Streakin Six out of an own daughter of Genuine Doc. He was the best horse I ever rode. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I used mares that won in the cutting pen and crossed them with stallions that I enjoyed while I was riding at the track. Was able to sell many of those crosses to HS and College girls. They were easy to get along with and wanted to work.
I only used mares that had significant quickness in their moves. The stallions had to an inverted V so that I didn't slow the shoulders down in my breeding. |
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Member
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Location: Texas | uno-dos-tres! - 2017-01-21 9:20 AM
I used mares that won in the cutting pen and crossed them with stallions that I enjoyed while I was riding at the track. Was able to sell many of those crosses to HS and College girls. They were easy to get along with and wanted to work.
I only used mares that had significant quickness in their moves. The stallions had to an inverted V so that I didn't slow the shoulders down in my breeding.
My mare is cutting bred and I've been contemplating breeding her to a nice race stallion some time in the distant future to add some size and speed to her intelligence and willingness for, hopefully, a perfect offspring. Your comment gives me hope that it would work out! |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| We have crossed a few cow bred mares on our Special Leader/Streaking Six stud and I like them. I had a granddaughter of Doc O Lena and I have a granddaughter of Reminic that we are still using. The colts are fast,quick and smart no complaints yet. This picture is a 3yr old out of the Doc O Lena bred mare.
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Member
Posts: 40
Location: Texas | 
Gorgeous! |
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| PREDIGREE CLASS
MUST PAY TUITION BEFORE ATTENDING ...
http://ontherodeoroad.com/top-15-barrel-racers-horses-pedigrees-hea... |
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 No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | cutnrunqhmt - 2017-01-21 11:35 AM We have crossed a few cow bred mares on our Special Leader/Streaking Six stud and I like them. I had a granddaughter of Doc O Lena and I have a granddaughter of Reminic that we are still using. The colts are fast,quick and smart no complaints yet. This picture is a 3yr old out of the Doc O Lena bred mare.
(insert wolf whistle) What a looker! |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| cutnrunqhmt - 2017-01-21 11:35 AM
We have crossed a few cow bred mares on our Special Leader/Streaking Six stud and I like them. I had a granddaughter of Doc O Lena and I have a granddaughter of Reminic that we are still using. The colts are fast,quick and smart no complaints yet. This picture is a 3yr old out of the Doc O Lena bred mare.
Very nice. Goes back to Three Bars if I am correct. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| sorrel horse ranch - 2017-01-20 9:39 PM
My stud horse was by Streakin Six out of an own daughter of Genuine Doc. He was the best horse I ever rode.
Very nice breeding. Goes back to Three Bars. I love me some three bars.
I think most of you think Three bars was a cutting horse. If he was, I am not aware of that. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| 1DSoon - 2017-01-20 9:46 AM
streakysox - 2017-01-20 10:30 AM Just for the record, Doc Bar was a grandson of Three Bars through Lightning Bars. (If you will google Doc Bar, he was bred to be a race horse) Back in the 1950's and 60's Quarter horses did it all. Smooth Herman who was world champion cutting horse was by Jet Smooth. Just another example of how Quarter horses were used for everything. Three Bars, who was a thoroughbred, was probably the thoroughbred who had the most influence on the Quarter horse industry. So, no the DOC BAR line is not really cowhorse. Mary Burgers horse goes back to Doc Bar and Lightning Bar (through Laughing Boy). You have a big dose of Three Bars on his top side also. Driftwood IS a cowhorse but with so much running horse, it is kind of overridden. In the 1960's some neighbors owned Sugar Bar Leo, a son of Sugar Bars. Their main interest was interest was racing so the daughters barrel raced. So if you do not want to read all that, the DOC BAR line is not cowhorse breeding.
you sure go out of your way to defend the dumb things he says.
How come?
Very off topic here but is your last name Cummings? |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| streakysox - 2017-01-21 5:33 PM
cutnrunqhmt - 2017-01-21 11:35 AM
We have crossed a few cow bred mares on our Special Leader/Streaking Six stud and I like them. I had a granddaughter of Doc O Lena and I have a granddaughter of Reminic that we are still using. The colts are fast,quick and smart no complaints yet. This picture is a 3yr old out of the Doc O Lena bred mare.
Very nice. Goes back to Three Bars if I am correct.
I do realize Doc Bar was bred to run but he couldn't or didn't but did make his mark crossing to those cow/working horse bloodlines . I grew up riding Poco Bueno / Doc Bar bred horses and married into a race horse family so I do enjoy crossing the two. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I am not fussy on cow versus race, as long as they have nice conformation, a big stride, the agility, and the fire in their belly.
Two cutting lines I haven't seen posted yet I love is Boonlit Dancer (peptoboonsmal) Boonlit Dancer has produced more money earning offspring then peptoboonsmal.
There is a Canadian stud Boonlit by Boonlit dancer, they have began crossing him on run. His oldest crop is 5 I believe and the video of the one is nice. They currently are in Arizona.
Highbrow cat, is the other one I would love to cross on a running machine, I find the highbrows are light on their feet, athletic. I think crossing a confederate leader on a highbrow would be cool. I think crossed on a dash Ta fame the horse would have too much ability it would hurt itself. |
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Member
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Location: Texas | cheryl makofka - 2017-01-21 9:30 PM
I am not fussy on cow versus race, as long as they have nice conformation, a big stride, the agility, and the fire in their belly.
Two cutting lines I haven't seen posted yet I love is Boonlit Dancer (peptoboonsmal) Boonlit Dancer has produced more money earning offspring then peptoboonsmal.
There is a Canadian stud Boonlit by Boonlit dancer, they have began crossing him on run. His oldest crop is 5 I believe and the video of the one is nice. They currently are in Arizona.
Highbrow cat, is the other one I would love to cross on a running machine, I find the highbrows are light on their feet, athletic. I think crossing a confederate leader on a highbrow would be cool. I think crossed on a dash Ta fame the horse would have too much ability it would hurt itself.
My mare is High Brow Cat and Colonel Freckles and she is so intelligent and willing. She's the first HBC I've worked with but if they're all as easy to work with, he's one of my new favorite lines! I've been trying to think of race lines to cross her with one day; I hadn't considered Confederate Leader ?? |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| High brow cat is an excellent choice. You have an overload of Lightning Bar there combine with Leo for speed. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | sorrel horse ranch - 2017-01-20 9:39 PM
My stud horse was by Streakin Six out of an own daughter of Genuine Doc. He was the best horse I ever rode.
To this day it makes me sad that I didn't get a mare booked to him before he passed :( |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
| I really like cow on run. My favorite would be run on bottom, but I think you can do either based on confirmation, and what you are trying to get out of each parent. And to the remark about all the "now cow lines coming from race breds" yes that is true but its not the 50s anymore and now days cow breds wouldn't cut it on the track like 50s stallions could. And considering doc bar sucked it up on the track and made the best cutting stallion of all time means every horse can be good at something they weren't bred for. Im pretty sure when they bred DTF they didn't have in mind that he would become the best barrel sire of all time either. |
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Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | casualdust07 - 2017-01-22 2:31 PM sorrel horse ranch - 2017-01-20 9:39 PM My stud horse was by Streakin Six out of an own daughter of Genuine Doc. He was the best horse I ever rode. To this day it makes me sad that I didn't get a mare booked to him before he passed : (
Edited by sorrel horse ranch 2017-01-23 11:32 AM
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| streakysox - 2017-01-20 9:30 AM Just for the record, Doc Bar was a grandson of Three Bars through Lightning Bars. (If you will google Doc Bar, he was bred to be a race horse) Back in the 1950's and 60's Quarter horses did it all. Smooth Herman who was world champion cutting horse was by Jet Smooth. Just another example of how Quarter horses were used for everything. Three Bars, who was a thoroughbred, was probably the thoroughbred who had the most influence on the Quarter horse industry. So, no the DOC BAR line is not really cowhorse. Mary Burgers horse goes back to Doc Bar and Lightning Bar (through Laughing Boy). You have a big dose of Three Bars on his top side also. Driftwood IS a cowhorse but with so much running horse, it is kind of overridden. In the 1960's some neighbors owned Sugar Bar Leo, a son of Sugar Bars. Their main interest was interest was racing so the daughters barrel raced. So if you do not want to read all that, the DOC BAR line is not cowhorse breeding. I disagree.
Edited by Whiteboy 2017-01-23 11:55 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | Whiteboy - 2017-01-23 12:52 PM streakysox - 2017-01-20 9:30 AM Just for the record, Doc Bar was a grandson of Three Bars through Lightning Bars. (If you will google Doc Bar, he was bred to be a race horse) Back in the 1950's and 60's Quarter horses did it all. Smooth Herman who was world champion cutting horse was by Jet Smooth. Just another example of how Quarter horses were used for everything. Three Bars, who was a thoroughbred, was probably the thoroughbred who had the most influence on the Quarter horse industry. So, no the DOC BAR line is not really cowhorse. Mary Burgers horse goes back to Doc Bar and Lightning Bar (through Laughing Boy). You have a big dose of Three Bars on his top side also. Driftwood IS a cowhorse but with so much running horse, it is kind of overridden. In the 1960's some neighbors owned Sugar Bar Leo, a son of Sugar Bars. Their main interest was interest was racing so the daughters barrel raced. So if you do not want to read all that, the DOC BAR line is not cowhorse breeding. I disagree.
I also disagree (and agree with Whiteboy on this). Almost all of these horses can be traced back to running blood at some point or another. I look for at what a significant sire did in his lifetime and what his offspring have been doing for a generation or two down the road to term what I would classify the horse. And if you look at that, much of his offspring has definitely been considered cowhorses, and some have succeeded as halter horse, or pleasure, and yes even barrels....etc. Doc Bar himself even had halter points. True, he was bred to race, but he was a flop on the track. In my opinion he is a cowhorse (or cutting horse, however one wishes to term it) due to his extreme impact in the cutting horse industry.
Driftwood is a bit different as he was a racehorse and smoked his competition in match races. His offspring just got a reputation as good using horses too (rodeo, ranch, etc.)...doesn't mean there isn't speed there. I personally would classify him as a performance horse, although many do still classify him as race, which isn't entirely wrong either.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| For everyone with cowbred mares, how do you pick the magic cross of run? |
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Duct Tape Bikini Girl
Posts: 2554
| Once I turned 50, I decided I didn't need the cross and went all cow! |
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| I think it's all about working with what you've got, figuring out what you want, and moving forward with that. There are certain bloodlines that have really strong maternal lines, and others that are sires of sires, so it's really about doing your research and finding what you want and prefer.
We have a TB mare (Big Brown x Don't Smoke by Smoke Glacken), that we bred to Hired Gun (Playgun x Peppys Serenade by PSB) for a 2018 foal, and will then breed her to Fiestas Gotta Gun (Playgun x Firewater Fiesta) for a 2019 foal. She is bred to run and has a great mind, so we wanted to add some nice stop and quickness/cattiness, and keep that sound mind.
We also have a The Continental/Skipper W tank of a mare that we hopefully will breed to a running bred stallion. She is coming along really well and we are excited to see how she progresses and what bloodlines we decide to breed her to.
So to answer your question, to me it doesn't make a difference as to what side the cow/run is on. If I have a nice mare I want to breed, I will sit down and figure out what traits would complement her, what I don't want, and what I would be happy ending up with. Along those lines, if I find a stud I want to breed to, I would look through my mares and decide which one would fit best with him, what my goals are, etc.
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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | I'm super excited about my mare out of a cow bred mare by Famous Gold Coin!! So far she has shown great intelligence and athleticism!!!
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | cutnrunqhmt - 2017-01-21 11:35 AM We have crossed a few cow bred mares on our Special Leader/Streaking Six stud and I like them. I had a granddaughter of Doc O Lena and I have a granddaughter of Reminic that we are still using. The colts are fast,quick and smart no complaints yet. This picture is a 3yr old out of the Doc O Lena bred mare.
For sale???   |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| zansbeunogal_2268 - 2017-11-15 8:54 AM
For everyone with cowbred mares, how do you pick the magic cross of run?
I generally look at what is successful and what I have had success riding. What traits I liked and how they may compliment one another.
My mare was by of PC joes frost and out of a lone drifter daughter. I love streakin six horses and think I would look at something for a cross there. I also see Streakin BoonDox who has similar lines is doing well which confirmed that idea. |
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Expert
Posts: 2258
| I actally just sold her a couple of weeks ago. Loved her but I had too many horses. Sadly we lost the stud a month ago to |
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 Peecans
| zansbeunogal_2268 - 2017-11-15 7:54 AM
For everyone with cowbred mares, how do you pick the magic cross of run?
Both my broodmares are by peptoboonsmal sons out of freckles play boy daughters. The bottom of each is quite different though and they are very different mares.
I consider a ton of things, I look out stallions who have proven crosses on cowbreed mares. I look for stallions that are "desirable" my mares are not yet proven producers, they are young and my oldest foal was just started this year. They look all kinds of promising, BUT I need a marketable proven stallion to sell my foals.
I like a well built, balanced stallion, my mares are well put together, I do not feel I have to "fix" them I mean nothing is ever perfect but If I felt like I had to "fix" something about my mare (other than a performance ending injury lol) I just would not breed them. I feel the same about a stallion, if I'm cruzing pics and think if only did not have _______ I move on no matter how popular.
So far I really like DTF sons and a Martha six moons son crossed on my girls, I had a Dashing cleat sons foal too that was very nice. I would try all 3 again.
However I don't think there is a magic cross to say cow to run, as there are so many different cow lines you cant really say "streaker mc streakhorse" crosses perfect on all cow, Cow is a pretty big genetic pool with quite a few different styles. |
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 Blaines and Beauty
Posts: 1431
| M&M3114 - 2017-01-19 11:31 PM
With a horse that is running bred mixed with cow bred, do you prefer a running bred stallion crossed on a cow mare or a cow stallion on a running mare? Or does it make a difference??
I prefer the cow on the bottom side! The best ones I have had have been by an On The Money Red stud crossed on Doc o Lena mares. They all made really nice horses and were so athletic. I currently have a Runaway Winner/Docs Remedy 3 yo filly that I am really excited about. |
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