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 Expert
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Location: on my horse | My most recent bag of Renew has a lot of corn in it... Which is not a Renew Gold ingredient. Anybody else picked up a bag like this? I emailed the company and sent pictures of my feed but haven't heard back as I just sent it. I also tasted the pieces just to make sure I wasn't crazy or misidentifying it  |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | eeeeewwwwwwwww |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
 
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Corn is usually used for a clean out before starting a new batch of feed. I've been wondering if things would change since seeing the MannaPro label on the bag. |
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Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | that's what I was wondering |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | I quit feeding it. It was too hard to find and the gelding who was on it started looking bad. |
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Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | CanCan - 2017-02-07 7:11 PM
I quit feeding it. It was too hard to find and the gelding who was on it started looking bad.
what do you feed now?
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Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | CanCan - 2017-02-07 7:11 PM
I quit feeding it. It was too hard to find and the gelding who was on it started looking bad.
what do you feed now?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I've been worried about it since seeing Manna Pro on it as well. No corn in the bags I've bought yet.... |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Mine have been good so far but corn..... really? That stinks. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| I didn't realize Manna Pro made RG? I thought it was made in Phoenix yet or whatever that label says on the bag. I did feed it for one year, my horses looked great as far as coats, but it wasn't high enough in fat for my one mare, so I put her on stabilized rice bran too, and better hay |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | I have responded to the inquiry about pieces of corn in a Renew Gold bag. We use a straight food grade Stabilized Rice Bran flush to clean the transfer pipes in the mill of the mix from another of our feed products that we commonly run prior to a Renew Gold run. All this flush and the first several hundred pounds of Renew Gold is to be discarded prior to the start of bagging Renew Gold. This clearly was from the first several bags (perhaps the first bag) of a 88000 pound RG run that was obviously switched over to start bagging too quickly. A remnant of the end of SRB flush must not have completely cleared the transfer pipe that moves the RG to the bagging equipment.
While certainly not a health risk, and is in fact organic corn from a wonderful non GMO organic poultry product that we make, this is totally unacceptable. To be clear, someone may lose their job over this depending on what the production log reads. We have a zero tolerance standard. I have asked the customer for lot numbers from that bag, and information to provide a refund. Our current lot numbers will actually identify the person who made the flush and bag decisions.
As to Manna Pro. They are a master distributor for us. They own none our company ( The Phoenix Company) or Renew Gold, and have zero involvement in the production of Renew Gold. Manna Pro simply warehouses and delivers the product that we make through their very effecient system designed to do so. Nothing has changed in formulation, ingredient quality, or management. Nor will it.
As always, our ingredients are all non GMO, food grade, ( even those few kernels of corn) and made in the same totally medication free safe mills as they always have been.
It is hard to express the frustration when I see a post like this, and the assumptions that are generated when customers read it. We continue to produce Renew Gold to a higher standard of both ingredient quality and production than virtually any equine feed manufacturer in the US.
Edited by winwillows 2017-02-08 1:14 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 413
| Thank you, Win. We know how hard you've worked to make this product the best and to know how much you care about whats going on "beyond the scenes," speaks volumes!! THANK YOU!! |
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | I've haven't had a problem at all with the feed. I feed about 10 bags a month - no problems, always consistant. I trust Renew Gold. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317
Location: MS | I've had no problems with mine. My horses look and feel amazing on it.
I finally found a tractor supply that will order it for me.
Enough of my friends liked my results and started ordering it so they're going to stock it now. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 582
Location: Wherever They Send Me | Thanks for clearing that up Win...also, love the new bags. The feed seems fresher (plus I can make tote bags out of the bags now).  |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Pardon my ignorance (not being facetious), but what's so bad about a little corn? |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I don't think it is the corn per say but what the prior product was that necessitated the need for cleaning and possible cross contimsnation from it. I love renew gold and quit processed feeds a long time ago because of the added junk and fillers, I don't want that getting into my RG and "left over" corn means that are not properly cleaning.
Edited by rodeomom3 2017-02-08 10:26 AM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed?
For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM
Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed?
For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses.
Does that apply to Cocoa Soya oil? |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I would not call any oil bad, I prefer flax seed |
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 Too Skinny
Posts: 8009
Location: LA Lower Alabama | I too would wonder what was "cleaned out" before my bag was made and would not want to use a bag that had extra ingredients out of the norm. While they state medicated feed is not made in that same plant there could be other issues that the left over corn may be scraping into my bag of feed. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed?
Absolutely nothing. non-GMO is just marketing woo to cash in on a fad. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | winwillows - 2017-02-08 10:25 PM
I have responded to the inquiry about pieces of corn in a Renew Gold bag. We use a straight food grade Stabilized Rice Bran flush to clean the transfer pipes in the mill of the mix from another of our feed products that we commonly run prior to a Renew Gold run. All this flush and the first several hundred pounds of Renew Gold is to be discarded prior to the start of bagging Renew Gold. This clearly was from the first several bags (perhaps the first bag) of a 88000 pound RG run that was obviously switched over to start bagging too quickly. A remnant of the end of SRB flush must not have completely cleared the transfer pipe that moves the RG to the bagging equipment.
While certainly not a health risk, and is in fact organic corn from a wonderful non GMO organic poultry product that we make, this is totally unacceptable. To be clear, someone may lose their job over this depending on what the production log reads. We have a zero tolerance standard. I have asked the customer for lot numbers from that bag, and information to provide a refund. Our current lot numbers will actually identify the person who made the flush and bag decisions.
As to Manna Pro. They are a master distributor for us. They own none our company ( The Phoenix Company) or Renew Gold, and have zero involvement in the production of Renew Gold. Manna Pro simply warehouses and delivers the product that we make through their very effecient system designed to do so. Nothing has changed in formulation, ingredient quality, or management. Nor will it.
As always, our ingredients are all non GMO, food grade, ( even those few kernels of corn) and made in the same totally medication free safe mills as they always have been.
It is hard to express the frustration when I see a post like this, and the assumptions that are generated when customers read it. We continue to produce Renew Gold to a higher standard of both ingredient quality and production than virtually any equine feed manufacturer in the US.
So is it being milled at a plant that mills other feeds now? Any medicated feed?
NEVER MIND-just reread your post!!! THANK YOU :-)
Edited by run n rate 2017-02-08 11:36 AM
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Thanks for addressing this. GMO doesn't bother me at all. Medication from medicated feed does. I quit feeding normal processed grains years ago and do feed Renew Gold. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM
Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed?
For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses.
Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need.
I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need. I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM
rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM
Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed?
For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses.
Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need.
I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
Good point. Thank you, doc! |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Not to kick up another discussion about GMO vs Non-GMO, but there is a point here that most miss, and a reason that we only use Non-GMO ingredients in every product that we make.
When we buy ingredients, we buy food grade non-GMO ingredients for the way they are handled, stored and separated from other conventional, and mostly GMO, feed ingredients. Being able to certify an ingredient as Non- GMO requires that ingredient to not be mixed in warehouse storage with the same (or any other) ingredient that is "feed grade" and often of lesser quality, purity or aflatoxin level. Storage is not intermixed, so you always know how your ingredients are stored. This is not a scare tactic on my part, but simply a way to insure that a product like ours that has a very extended shelf life compared to conventional feeds is produced with ingredient quality that will insure that shelf life can be reached.
I know many of you on this forum are from farm families. I have grown rice, beans, sunflowers, wheat and seed crops for over 40 years. Those of you who grow crops for food rather than feed know that quality is a big factor in value. If you grow beans and they get rained on before harvest, they get mold on them and move to feed grade. If they are harvested in prime condition they go the food market. For my company, buying Food Grade, Non-GMO ingredients simply means that those ingredients are handled to a better standard than lesser grade ingredients. I am not saying that GMO are necessarily bad. I am simply saying that, in my opinion, I can count on getting a better quality ingredient from my suppliers by formulating the way that we do.
As to who is making money on the GMO deal, Monsanto has made Billions and remains the primary source of test and clinical data concerning any potential negative issues with GMO. The argument can be made either way, and often is. One thing that can't be argued is that most feed grade ingredients are consistently of lower quality that food grade ingredients of the same type. That is what defines them as feed grade vs food grade. Rice Bran is a perfect example of this. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | There's not any GMO rice being grown commercially. Nor Coconuts. Nor flax. Isn't that what's in Renew Gold? I'm also not aware of anyone growing rice for feed--it's all intended for human consumption, although of course some will be damaged and rejected for that purpose. And there are, as you say, different handling protocols for rice bran milled for feed use vs food grade. I'm not familiar with flax production, but I would guess it's similar. Point is, there is no GMO version of these ingredients. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Three 4 Luck - 2017-02-08 2:04 PM
There's not any GMO rice being grown commercially. Nor Coconuts. Nor flax. Isn't that what's in Renew Gold? I'm also not aware of anyone growing rice for feed--it's all intended for human consumption, although of course some will be damaged and rejected for that purpose. And there are, as you say, different handling protocols for rice bran milled for feed use vs food grade. I'm not familiar with flax production, but I would guess it's similar. Point is, there is no GMO version of these ingredients.
I knew that I should not have started this conversation. My point was that Food grade ingredients are handled differently, and that all the ingredients in every product that we make is also Non-gmo as a way to insure that those standards can be controlled. We do this partly because it guarantees that it gets its own storage considerations in the mill and therefore remains at the intended quality level without ever being potentially mixed with off grade ingredients. We make equine products, poultry products, and dog food using a very wide range of ingredients, and use this standard as one way to maintain quality in all of them. If one product does not have GMO variants available that does not change the fact that there are no GMO ingredients in that product. As to rice being only grown for food use, that is the intent, but the resulting raw rice bran, grade 5 rice that results from cold mold, heat or other damage all sells into the feed market when they can find a buyer. That commonly does end up in equine feed, and we will not use any of those ingredients. There was some GMO rice grown in trials in the South in the past, they are NOT finding it in any testing, and Southern rice is certainly considered non-GMO. There has never been GMO rice grown in California where I grow rice, even though there was a push to experiment with it. Cooler minds prevailed on that. There has been GMO flax produced, and we require a Non-GMO certification from our supplier. Many flax suppliers will not provide that.
Edited by winwillows 2017-02-08 2:40 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Is there specific testing for aflatoxins with this feed? |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Bear - 2017-02-08 3:06 PM
Is there specific testing for aflatoxins with this feed?
Every component of every product that we make is tested. Another reason to use food grade components. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 12:02 PM casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need. I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
and it really depends on the processing. Call THE to get the details of why they use soy flour and. All soy is not created equal. Soy is an excellent source of amino acids etc. I won't pretend to understand it all, but Bob can explain it all. Even Platinum Performance uses soy... |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Thecowgirlinme - 2017-02-08 3:45 AM
Thank you, Win. We know how hard you've worked to make this product the best and to know how much you care about whats going on "beyond the scenes," speaks volumes!! THANK YOU!!
Ditto. We appreciate your response and commitment to producing a quality feed we can count on! |
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 I don't want to screw up!
Posts: 3881
Location: North Dakota -> Colorado | hammer_time - 2017-02-08 6:56 PM Thecowgirlinme - 2017-02-08 3:45 AM Thank you, Win. We know how hard you've worked to make this product the best and to know how much you care about whats going on "beyond the scenes," speaks volumes!! THANK YOU!! Ditto. We appreciate your response and commitment to producing a quality feed we can count on!
I completely agree! I have recently started using Renew Gold, and so far I am so so so impressed. Your commitment to excellence can be seen! Thanks, Win! |
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| TurnNBurn-3Barrels - 2017-02-09 11:07 AM
hammer_time - 2017-02-08 6:56 PM Thecowgirlinme - 2017-02-08 3:45 AM Thank you, Win. We know how hard you've worked to make this product the best and to know how much you care about whats going on "beyond the scenes," speaks volumes!! THANK YOU!! Ditto. We appreciate your response and commitment to producing a quality feed we can count on!
Agree - I am pleased with the horses I have on Renew Gold  Reading these posts from Win makes me realize just how much they care and the work they pour into this product. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | wyoming barrel racer - 2017-02-08 5:48 PM
rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 12:02 PM casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need. I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
Soy doesn't scare me one bit. and i love THE supplements too :P |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| casualdust07 - 2017-02-09 11:46 AM
wyoming barrel racer - 2017-02-08 5:48 PM
rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 12:02 PM casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need. I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
Soy doesn't scare me one bit. and i love THE supplements too :P
Did some more reading and agree, lots of reptuble sources recommend a good soy oil for horses. |
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 Maybe Someday
Posts: 4551
| I recently started one of my horses on RG.Has made a big difference.feed it with Alfalfa pellets and grass hay.Considering adding alfalfa cubes to really get him filled out.So far it's looked good and he eats it up.
Edited by Tennbarrelracer 2017-02-09 8:15 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| wyoming barrel racer - 2017-02-08 5:48 PM
rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 12:02 PM casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need. I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
I stopped all soy due to a mare who has a sensitivity to it and easier if everyone here eats the same thing. THE was great to work with and just changed my formula to Chia seed meal instead still works great and an excellent option if you do need to avoid soy. |
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 Three in a Bikini
Posts: 2035
| winwillows - 2017-02-08 12:38 PM
I knew that I should not have started this conversation. My point was that Food grade ingredients are handled differently, and that all the ingredients in every product that we make is also Non-gmo as a way to insure that those standards can be controlled. We do this partly because it guarantees that it gets its own storage considerations in the mill and therefore remains at the intended quality level without ever being potentially mixed with off grade ingredients. We make equine products, poultry products, and dog food using a very wide range of ingredients, and use this standard as one way to maintain quality in all of them. If one product does not have GMO variants available that does not change the fact that there are no GMO ingredients in that product. As to rice being only grown for food use, that is the intent, but the resulting raw rice bran, grade 5 rice that results from cold mold, heat or other damage all sells into the feed market when they can find a buyer. That commonly does end up in equine feed, and we will not use any of those ingredients. There was some GMO rice grown in trials in the South in the past, they are NOT finding it in any testing, and Southern rice is certainly considered non-GMO. There has never been GMO rice grown in California where I grow rice, even though there was a push to experiment with it. Cooler minds prevailed on that. There has been GMO flax produced, and we require a Non-GMO certification from our supplier. Many flax suppliers will not provide that.
I am going to jump on this...
And then I am going to jump off...
But I feel like this should be stated, the fact that an ingredient is GMO or Non-GMO has no effect on the level of quality associated to the final product.
What I would really like to know is whether or not the facility is certified to a GFSI standard?
That tells me quite a bit more about the level of management commitment than anything else I have read. |
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Veteran
Posts: 268
| I just bought my first bag of RG. What kind of differences are you seeing? What type of supplements are people adding? CurOst? Joint? Healthy Coat? Can you mix with a handful of oats? TIA. We feed alfalfa mix hay and in summer they are on pasture 24/7. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Kry5ta1 - 2017-02-10 8:41 PM
winwillows - 2017-02-08 12:38 PM
I knew that I should not have started this conversation. My point was that Food grade ingredients are handled differently, and that all the ingredients in every product that we make is also Non-gmo as a way to insure that those standards can be controlled. We do this partly because it guarantees that it gets its own storage considerations in the mill and therefore remains at the intended quality level without ever being potentially mixed with off grade ingredients. We make equine products, poultry products, and dog food using a very wide range of ingredients, and use this standard as one way to maintain quality in all of them. If one product does not have GMO variants available that does not change the fact that there are no GMO ingredients in that product. As to rice being only grown for food use, that is the intent, but the resulting raw rice bran, grade 5 rice that results from cold mold, heat or other damage all sells into the feed market when they can find a buyer. That commonly does end up in equine feed, and we will not use any of those ingredients. There was some GMO rice grown in trials in the South in the past, they are NOT finding it in any testing, and Southern rice is certainly considered non-GMO. There has never been GMO rice grown in California where I grow rice, even though there was a push to experiment with it. Cooler minds prevailed on that. There has been GMO flax produced, and we require a Non-GMO certification from our supplier. Many flax suppliers will not provide that.
I am going to jump on this...
And then I am going to jump off...
But I feel like this should be stated, the fact that an ingredient is GMO or Non-GMO has no effect on the level of quality associated to the final product.
What I would really like to know is whether or not the facility is certified to a GFSI standard?
That tells me quite a bit more about the level of management commitment than anything else I have read.
First, certification. I am not aware of any dedicated non- pet food plant or Feed Mill that has individual GFSI specific certification. There are some that follow those standards, and we are one of them. We follow those standards as they apply to non- pet food feeds. There may be some that actually hold actual certification from GSFI and that is fine, but I am not aware of any straight feed mills that do.
As to Non- GMO signifying a difference in quality, that was not my point. Of course there are GMO ingredients that are food grade and of high quality. My point was that our food grade ingredients, being certified non-GMO requires that they be stored separately and therefore have no chance of being mixed with any ingredients that may be of inferior quality.
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Three in a Bikini
Posts: 2035
| winwillows - 2017-02-11 9:27 AM
Kry5ta1 - 2017-02-10 8:41 PM
winwillows - 2017-02-08 12:38 PM
I knew that I should not have started this conversation. My point was that Food grade ingredients are handled differently, and that all the ingredients in every product that we make is also Non-gmo as a way to insure that those standards can be controlled. We do this partly because it guarantees that it gets its own storage considerations in the mill and therefore remains at the intended quality level without ever being potentially mixed with off grade ingredients. We make equine products, poultry products, and dog food using a very wide range of ingredients, and use this standard as one way to maintain quality in all of them. If one product does not have GMO variants available that does not change the fact that there are no GMO ingredients in that product. As to rice being only grown for food use, that is the intent, but the resulting raw rice bran, grade 5 rice that results from cold mold, heat or other damage all sells into the feed market when they can find a buyer. That commonly does end up in equine feed, and we will not use any of those ingredients. There was some GMO rice grown in trials in the South in the past, they are NOT finding it in any testing, and Southern rice is certainly considered non-GMO. There has never been GMO rice grown in California where I grow rice, even though there was a push to experiment with it. Cooler minds prevailed on that. There has been GMO flax produced, and we require a Non-GMO certification from our supplier. Many flax suppliers will not provide that.
I am going to jump on this...
And then I am going to jump off...
But I feel like this should be stated, the fact that an ingredient is GMO or Non-GMO has no effect on the level of quality associated to the final product.
What I would really like to know is whether or not the facility is certified to a GFSI standard?
That tells me quite a bit more about the level of management commitment than anything else I have read.
First, certification. I am not aware of any dedicated non- pet food plant or Feed Mill that has individual GFSI specific certification. There are some that follow those standards, and we are one of them. We follow those standards as they apply to non- pet food feeds. There may be some that actually hold actual certification from GSFI and that is fine, but I am not aware of any straight feed mills that do.
As to Non- GMO signifying a difference in quality, that was not my point. Of course there are GMO ingredients that are food grade and of high quality. My point was that our food grade ingredients, being certified non-GMO requires that they be stored separately and therefore have no chance of being mixed with any ingredients that may be of inferior quality.
So if RG is following those standards I assume you had a breakdown of a CCP or perhaps a PRP.
The product purchased by the consumer is under grade at best due to a failure in the purge system.
But your follow-up action is to fire the person on the line?
How about a review of the process controls? Or an evaluation of your HA if need be?
This entire post rubs me the wrong way to be honest.
I won't respond again because there is no need to stir the pot any further... but trust me, as a fellow worker in the non-pet food industry, this does not read well.
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Kry5ta1 - 2017-02-11 1:22 PM
winwillows - 2017-02-11 9:27 AM
Kry5ta1 - 2017-02-10 8:41 PM
winwillows - 2017-02-08 12:38 PM
I knew that I should not have started this conversation. My point was that Food grade ingredients are handled differently, and that all the ingredients in every product that we make is also Non-gmo as a way to insure that those standards can be controlled. We do this partly because it guarantees that it gets its own storage considerations in the mill and therefore remains at the intended quality level without ever being potentially mixed with off grade ingredients. We make equine products, poultry products, and dog food using a very wide range of ingredients, and use this standard as one way to maintain quality in all of them. If one product does not have GMO variants available that does not change the fact that there are no GMO ingredients in that product. As to rice being only grown for food use, that is the intent, but the resulting raw rice bran, grade 5 rice that results from cold mold, heat or other damage all sells into the feed market when they can find a buyer. That commonly does end up in equine feed, and we will not use any of those ingredients. There was some GMO rice grown in trials in the South in the past, they are NOT finding it in any testing, and Southern rice is certainly considered non-GMO. There has never been GMO rice grown in California where I grow rice, even though there was a push to experiment with it. Cooler minds prevailed on that. There has been GMO flax produced, and we require a Non-GMO certification from our supplier. Many flax suppliers will not provide that.
I am going to jump on this...
And then I am going to jump off...
But I feel like this should be stated, the fact that an ingredient is GMO or Non-GMO has no effect on the level of quality associated to the final product.
What I would really like to know is whether or not the facility is certified to a GFSI standard?
That tells me quite a bit more about the level of management commitment than anything else I have read.
First, certification. I am not aware of any dedicated non- pet food plant or Feed Mill that has individual GFSI specific certification. There are some that follow those standards, and we are one of them. We follow those standards as they apply to non- pet food feeds. There may be some that actually hold actual certification from GSFI and that is fine, but I am not aware of any straight feed mills that do.
As to Non- GMO signifying a difference in quality, that was not my point. Of course there are GMO ingredients that are food grade and of high quality. My point was that our food grade ingredients, being certified non-GMO requires that they be stored separately and therefore have no chance of being mixed with any ingredients that may be of inferior quality.
So if RG is following those standards I assume you had a breakdown of a CCP or perhaps a PRP.
The product purchased by the consumer is under grade at best due to a failure in the purge system.
But your follow-up action is to fire the person on the line?
How about a review of the process controls? Or an evaluation of your HA if need be?
This entire post rubs me the wrong way to be honest.
I won't respond again because there is no need to stir the pot any further... but trust me, as a fellow worker in the non-pet food industry, this does not read well.
If you read his first response he said some one MAY lose their job depending on what the investigation and the production logs showed. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | GLP - 2017-02-11 1:32 PM
Kry5ta1 - 2017-02-11 1:22 PM
winwillows - 2017-02-11 9:27 AM
Kry5ta1 - 2017-02-10 8:41 PM
winwillows - 2017-02-08 12:38 PM
I knew that I should not have started this conversation. My point was that Food grade ingredients are handled differently, and that all the ingredients in every product that we make is also Non-gmo as a way to insure that those standards can be controlled. We do this partly because it guarantees that it gets its own storage considerations in the mill and therefore remains at the intended quality level without ever being potentially mixed with off grade ingredients. We make equine products, poultry products, and dog food using a very wide range of ingredients, and use this standard as one way to maintain quality in all of them. If one product does not have GMO variants available that does not change the fact that there are no GMO ingredients in that product. As to rice being only grown for food use, that is the intent, but the resulting raw rice bran, grade 5 rice that results from cold mold, heat or other damage all sells into the feed market when they can find a buyer. That commonly does end up in equine feed, and we will not use any of those ingredients. There was some GMO rice grown in trials in the South in the past, they are NOT finding it in any testing, and Southern rice is certainly considered non-GMO. There has never been GMO rice grown in California where I grow rice, even though there was a push to experiment with it. Cooler minds prevailed on that. There has been GMO flax produced, and we require a Non-GMO certification from our supplier. Many flax suppliers will not provide that.
I am going to jump on this...
And then I am going to jump off...
But I feel like this should be stated, the fact that an ingredient is GMO or Non-GMO has no effect on the level of quality associated to the final product.
What I would really like to know is whether or not the facility is certified to a GFSI standard?
That tells me quite a bit more about the level of management commitment than anything else I have read.
First, certification. I am not aware of any dedicated non- pet food plant or Feed Mill that has individual GFSI specific certification. There are some that follow those standards, and we are one of them. We follow those standards as they apply to non- pet food feeds. There may be some that actually hold actual certification from GSFI and that is fine, but I am not aware of any straight feed mills that do.
As to Non- GMO signifying a difference in quality, that was not my point. Of course there are GMO ingredients that are food grade and of high quality. My point was that our food grade ingredients, being certified non-GMO requires that they be stored separately and therefore have no chance of being mixed with any ingredients that may be of inferior quality.
So if RG is following those standards I assume you had a breakdown of a CCP or perhaps a PRP.
The product purchased by the consumer is under grade at best due to a failure in the purge system.
But your follow-up action is to fire the person on the line?
How about a review of the process controls? Or an evaluation of your HA if need be?
This entire post rubs me the wrong way to be honest.
I won't respond again because there is no need to stir the pot any further... but trust me, as a fellow worker in the non-pet food industry, this does not read well.
If you read his first response he said some one MAY lose their job depending on what the investigation and the production logs showed.
Reading well or not, our protocols are very specific, and only an equipment failure or gross negligence on the part of the crew responsible for carrying out those protocols can allow that situation to happen. An equipment failure would have stopped the run and generated an inspection. Negligence is what let that bag through. Everyone involved in our production was called in to review the photos sent to us by the OP. This was a corner cut by a crew member, and not confirmed as clear to package by the crew Forman. It was also missed by the crew member responsible for lining up the filled bag going into the sewing unit. He is to look in every filled bag that he touches. That takes two seconds, and there is no reason for him not to do so. Three back ups not done. I Do not know where you work in the industry, but I make a premium product that uses food grade ingredients. This is not allowed in our production. The employees were not fired, but put on probation with a scheduled follow up review. I respect the guys and girls that work on out product, but just saying "hey guys, don't do that again" does not make a lasting impression that prevents this from happening again. There are three backups that should have prevented this. More protocol is not the answer, more responsibility is. My Grandfather always said that "responsibility is taken not given", and each of these guys involved needs to. |
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Veteran
Posts: 105
| As a business owner I respect everything Win has done to solve the problem in multiple ways. I happen to own a horse that is allergic to both corn and oats plus other products so this product is perfect for me. I had bought another top dress product that I had reactions to . While talking with someone else she stated there was mold in hers and she called a rep and their answer was thank god it is you and dropped. In my opinion The whole lot should have been recalled. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I just opened a new bag I bought yesterday, and its perfect. My horse loves this product! I figure that a horse's life revolves around eating, he should get something he really likes and does well on. I had tried another Stabilized Rice Bran and my horse got gassy from it. Don't have a clue why but I quit feeding it and gave it to the deer. |
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 Certified Snake Wrangler
Posts: 1672
Location: North MS | I stopped at every tractor supply between Biloxi and Tupelo last year and never found a bag. They would only order it if I pre-payed and bought 3 bags a month. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | I really think starting a feed company has opened my eyes. Win is being very responsible in this matter. I wish everyone that has an unrealistic expectation for feed production could walk a week or so in the feed producers shoes. Some thing are unsafe, some things are negligence and I am 100% against those, but things don't always go as planned, people make mistakes and equipment fails. A feed company you can trust, that is honest, and works hard to ensure the best product possible (ingredients and manufacturing) should be valued. |
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Corn in my latest bag of Renew Gold?