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| Horse just moved to our new house, went from 3 acre dry lot to 30+ acre pasture. Same feed routine, just added a fat supplement (empower boost) and now he has free choice grass that he didnt have at our old house.
Well sense moving, he hasnt been himself. he rides perfectly, couldnt be working any better. but outside of the arena he just isnt himself. It almost makes me feel like i need to add something to my feeding program but this has always worked for him.
But now hes "dull" and nervous. Hes always been a picky eater and walked away from his feed and came back or always left some in his bucket. which he kinda stopped (got better about) and now hes doing it again.
He turned buddy sour with a mare we have, (fine riding off) but runs around screaming for her, trying to see her, working himself to a sweat in his stall if she isnt around. All wide eyed and snorty. hard to catch. This is NOT typical for him. I honestly think a lot of this is due to the mare. hes never had these problems until she came, They are separated other than when shes stalled next to him when its bad weather.
* He just went to the vet for x rays/ lameness test, had a little soreness in FL heel, but x rays showed no changes so we assumed a stone bruise (he was ouchy to hoof testers) other than that she said he had a clean bill * | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | Sounds like it could be. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "picky eater" in horses. That is a term people give horses when they are either uniformed or too lazy to dig deeper into what the actual problem is. Now it's used so commonly that people believe it's a real thing. Horses are designed by nature to eat continuously, 24/7, never stopping. When they do stop there is either something wrong with the horse (like ulcers) or there's something wrong with the feed (contamination).
Why are he and the mare separated? Is he pastured with any other horses or alone? What else does your feed program consist of? | |
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| BamaCanChaser - 2017-02-09 8:47 AM Sounds like it could be. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "picky eater" in horses. That is a term people give horses when they are either uniformed or too lazy to dig deeper into what the actual problem is. Now it's used so commonly that people believe it's a real thing. Horses are designed by nature to eat continuously, 24/7, never stopping. When they do stop there is either something wrong with the horse (like ulcers) or there's something wrong with the feed (contamination). Why are he and the mare separated? Is he pastured with any other horses or alone? What else does your feed program consist of?
by all means, educate me on a nutitional program.
- he gets 9lb (1 & half scoops AM/PM) of 10/12 sweet feed.. its a gerogia product from a small mill so you may not have heard of it. (mid south quality blend) hes been on this his whole life, its the only thing hes consistently ate so ive never changed it.
- half scoop beet pulp soaked (just for taking in watr purposes)
- half pound of Empower boost
- free choice costal hay and grass. Once i start hauling him a lot this year i do plan to just take away the costal and go with alfifa.
The gelding has been moved to a seperate pasture because the mare is a terrible runner, and has taught him the bad habit of running (which he has stopped sense being moved) shes super buddy sour and the alpha so id rather keep them seperate. His pasture is with cattle, so he isnt necessarily "alone" (they come and go as the day goes on from his pasture to their own, and no he for sre hasnt gotten into any cattle feed, they are fed on a entirely different piece of property)
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Barrelhorsehelp1 - 2017-02-09 8:38 AM BamaCanChaser - 2017-02-09 8:47 AM Sounds like it could be. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "picky eater" in horses. That is a term people give horses when they are either uniformed or too lazy to dig deeper into what the actual problem is. Now it's used so commonly that people believe it's a real thing. Horses are designed by nature to eat continuously, 24/7, never stopping. When they do stop there is either something wrong with the horse (like ulcers) or there's something wrong with the feed (contamination). Why are he and the mare separated? Is he pastured with any other horses or alone? What else does your feed program consist of? by all means, educate me on a nutitional program.
- he gets 9lb (1 & half scoops AM/PM) of 10/12 sweet feed.. its a gerogia product from a small mill so you may not have heard of it. (mid south quality blend) hes been on this his whole life, its the only thing hes consistently ate so ive never changed it.
- half scoop beet pulp soaked (just for taking in watr purposes)
- half pound of Empower boost
- free choice costal hay and grass. Once i start hauling him a lot this year i do plan to just take away the costal and go with alfifa.
The gelding has been moved to a seperate pasture because the mare is a terrible runner, and has taught him the bad habit of running (which he has stopped sense being moved) shes super buddy sour and the alpha so id rather keep them seperate. His pasture is with cattle, so he isnt necessarily "alone" (they come and go as the day goes on from his pasture to their own, and no he for sre hasnt gotten into any cattle feed, they are fed on a entirely different piece of property)
I would say yes and because of 2 things-the move and the 9 1/2 lbs of sweet feed. I wouldn't feed that much to 2 horses. Sweet feed is the devil when it comes to ulcers.
The rest of his life should be good-diet and pasture. I would treat him for ulcers and take him off the sweet feed. Unless he is a hard keeper he doesn't even need grain with good hay. Bet you see a difference | |
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| wyoming barrel racer - 2017-02-09 9:56 AM Barrelhorsehelp1 - 2017-02-09 8:38 AM BamaCanChaser - 2017-02-09 8:47 AM Sounds like it could be. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "picky eater" in horses. That is a term people give horses when they are either uniformed or too lazy to dig deeper into what the actual problem is. Now it's used so commonly that people believe it's a real thing. Horses are designed by nature to eat continuously, 24/7, never stopping. When they do stop there is either something wrong with the horse (like ulcers) or there's something wrong with the feed (contamination). Why are he and the mare separated? Is he pastured with any other horses or alone? What else does your feed program consist of? by all means, educate me on a nutitional program.
- he gets 9lb (1 & half scoops AM/PM) of 10/12 sweet feed.. its a gerogia product from a small mill so you may not have heard of it. (mid south quality blend) hes been on this his whole life, its the only thing hes consistently ate so ive never changed it.
- half scoop beet pulp soaked (just for taking in watr purposes)
- half pound of Empower boost
- free choice costal hay and grass. Once i start hauling him a lot this year i do plan to just take away the costal and go with alfifa.
The gelding has been moved to a seperate pasture because the mare is a terrible runner, and has taught him the bad habit of running (which he has stopped sense being moved) shes super buddy sour and the alpha so id rather keep them seperate. His pasture is with cattle, so he isnt necessarily "alone" (they come and go as the day goes on from his pasture to their own, and no he for sre hasnt gotten into any cattle feed, they are fed on a entirely different piece of property)
The rest of his life should be good-diet and pasture. I would treat him for ulcers and take him off the sweet feed. Unless he is a hard keeper he doesn't even need grain with good hay. Bet you see a difference
He's been on this feeding program for forever!! LOL im open to changing it, but hes at a very healthy weight and looks plump, im worried if i back him off wont look as good. id rather have mine on the fatter side than skinny.
I can get the same feed in a pellet form for $1 more, but this has just always worked for me. why fix it if it aint broke. And no matter whta hay i put in front of him, costal, peanut hay, alfalfa he walks away and leaves it and will pick on it through out the day, or let the other horses eat it. He honestly just doesnt act like hes hungry!
but again by all means i am open to nutional plans! | |
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 Color Coordination Director
| Processed high startch and sugar loaded feed is terrible for horses, its one of the biggest causes of gastic ulcers next to performance/hauling stress. Horses were not created to eat the way we feed them. A low startch feed and plenty of hay will get you a lot further. We feed Alfafla and rice bran/ renew gold to the performance horses and stud.
Edited by mbcruel21 2017-02-09 10:12 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| I just bought a 3 year old from Washington State, outside horse, no shelter, lots of acreage, snow etc. He is being shipped Saturday to me in Southern CA, 80 degree days, long haul, new home, new buddies. As soon as I bought him I had his owners start him few days ago on Ulcerguard. He is a super eater and very laid back type but he can be a silent sufferer as well. So I plan to keep him on the Ulcerguard, 1/4 tube daily for a week and get him on curost stomach for atleast a month. THen see where we are. All my horses off the track never buddy up to nobody, they are in constant changing around at track so they know its here today, gone tomorrow. But this guy is going to have a big environmental change, etc.. Never hurts. But yes sweet feed is not good. | |
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| mbcruel21 - 2017-02-09 10:11 AM Processed high startch and sugar loaded feed is terrible for horses, its one of the biggest causes of gastic ulcers next to performance/hauling stress. Horses were not created to eat the way we feed them. A low startch feed and plenty of hay will get you a lot further. We feed Alfafla and rice bran/ renew gold to the performance horses and stud.
Renew gold was a no for me, tried it and it had all my horses but 2 easy keepers looking terrible. So id rather not try it again.
I had great results with the Pro Force line, but i swited to this feed for this gelding specifically, and all my horses are doing just as well if not better on the same feed, half the price.
Im not a huge fan of suppliments, but i love the empower boost, its done wonders for all my hard to keep horses.
below are the feed tags for the feed i currently feed, and the pellet form.
current feed
Crude Protein, Min 11.00% Lysine, Min 0.60% Methionine, Min 0.30% Crude Fat, Min 10.00% Crude Fiber, Max 12.50% Calcium, Min 0.70 % Calcium, Max 0.95% Phosphorus, Min 0.45% Zinc, Min 140 ppm Copper, Min 40 ppm Selenium, Min 0.40 ppm Vitamin A, Min 6,000 IU/lb Vitamin E, Min 100 IU/lb Biotin 0.45 mg/lb
INGREDIENTS Wheat Middlings, Oats, Cracked Corn, Soybean Hulls, Vegetable Oil, Molasses, Beet Pulp, Alfalfa Meal, Soybean Meal, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Magnesium Oxide, Polysaccharide Complex Magnesium, Potassium Chloride, Iron Sulfate, Polysaccharide Complex Iron, Zinc Sulfate, Polysaccharide Complex Zinc, Manganese Sulfate, Polysaccharide Complex Manganese, Copper Sulfate, Polysaccharide Complex Copper, Polysaccharide Complex Cobalt, Sodium Selenite, Yeast Cultures, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine, Folic Acid, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid.
pellet form
Crude Protein, Min 12.00% Lysine, Min 0.80% Methionine, Min 0.30% Crude Fat, Min 10.00% Crude Fiber, Max 20.00% Calcium, Min 0.80 % Max 1.20% Phosphorus, Min 0.60% Zinc, Min 180 ppm Copper, Min 50 ppm Selenium, Min 0.50 ppm Vitamin A, Min 6,000 IU/lb Vitamin E, Min 120 IU/lb Biotin
NGREDIENTS: Wheat Middlings, Soybean Hulls, Ground Beet Pulp, Vegetable Oil, Ground Oats, Alfalfa Meal, Rice Bran, Flaxseed Meal, Soybean Meal, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Dicalcium Phosphate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Magnesium Oxide, Polysaccharide Complex Magnesium, Potassium Chloride, Polysaccharide Complex Potassium, Iron Sulfate, Polysaccharide Complex Iron, Zinc Sulfate, Polysaccharide Complex Zinc, Manganese Sulfate, Polysaccharide Complex Manganese, Copper Sulfate, Polysaccharide Complex Copper, Polysaccharide Complex Cobalt, Sodium Selenite, Kelp Meal, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine, Folic Acid, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Natural and Artificial Flavors. | |
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Color Coordination Director
| The forage is considerably more important than processed grains. We feed the rice bran or Renew Gold for extra calories but the main source of nutution is ALFALFA. Horses are made to be grazing animals, they need the steamy part of hay to allow their stomach to function correctly. Processed grain causes a ton of issues- ulcers, feet issues, etc. Keep it simple.
Edited by mbcruel21 2017-02-09 10:33 AM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Get him off the sweet feed, sweet feed is not a good ideal, and it will cause a horse to have sore feet if getting a sugar over load. Grass pasture+ good/rich hay+ sweet feed+ added fat supplement will = to being a nervous and sore footed horse. | |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I would bet you have a leaky gut situation, especially with that high of a grain load. The equine stomach is designed to handle no more than 2 pounds of grain at a time, otherwise it dumps into the hind gut creating issues and hind gut acidosis/leaky gut syndrome, which then creates many other inflammatory issues in the body. I completely agree with Bamacanchaser in that the term "picky eater" is something that is man made and a reflection of an underlying issue, from HGA/leaky gut/gastric upset to microbial imbalance due to high grain loads or over supplementation of probiotics.
First thing I would do is make sure the stable of your feed program is the highest quality forage you can find. Alflafa or alfalfa blend would be my first choice. For grain, I would give a pound of whole oats with either flax seed, black oil sunflower seed, or rice bran, keeping the "meal" under 2 pounds.
I feed the Cur-OST products to the horses i'm riding and hauling to manage inflammation and the effects of stress on the body, and I love these products for what they do for a horse's overall health and prevention of inflammatory issues (arthritis, gastric upset, allergies, COPD, etc). The horses i'm not riding and hauling are on an alfalfa only diet. Once I pulled my horses off of processed grains, the picky eater syndrome went away, and they all are doing quite well on so much less. Here are a couple of articles worth reading on picky eaters and leaky gut syndrome describing how they are connected and what other issues can stem from this.
https://www.nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/385-leaky-gut-syndrome-health-soundness
https://www.nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/403-the-equine-diet-and-picky-eaters-thoughts-and-concerns
Edited by Herbie 2017-02-09 10:31 AM
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | I agree with the other posters about the sweet feed. That said, I constantly get my a$$ kicked on the track by horses fed gallons of the stuff, those horses look great and run great. I am sure there are lots of pro girls hauling hard that feed sweet feed also. I think you should probably treat for ulcers and see what happens, if he does better then you have your answer. I would also put him on a gastro protective product just to cover your self if he gets stressed in the future. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | Barrelhorsehelp1 - 2017-02-09 10:06 AM wyoming barrel racer - 2017-02-09 9:56 AM Barrelhorsehelp1 - 2017-02-09 8:38 AM BamaCanChaser - 2017-02-09 8:47 AM Sounds like it could be. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "picky eater" in horses. That is a term people give horses when they are either uniformed or too lazy to dig deeper into what the actual problem is. Now it's used so commonly that people believe it's a real thing. Horses are designed by nature to eat continuously, 24/7, never stopping. When they do stop there is either something wrong with the horse (like ulcers) or there's something wrong with the feed (contamination). Why are he and the mare separated? Is he pastured with any other horses or alone? What else does your feed program consist of? by all means, educate me on a nutitional program.
- he gets 9lb (1 & half scoops AM/PM) of 10/12 sweet feed.. its a gerogia product from a small mill so you may not have heard of it. (mid south quality blend) hes been on this his whole life, its the only thing hes consistently ate so ive never changed it.
- half scoop beet pulp soaked (just for taking in watr purposes)
- half pound of Empower boost
- free choice costal hay and grass. Once i start hauling him a lot this year i do plan to just take away the costal and go with alfifa.
The gelding has been moved to a seperate pasture because the mare is a terrible runner, and has taught him the bad habit of running (which he has stopped sense being moved) shes super buddy sour and the alpha so id rather keep them seperate. His pasture is with cattle, so he isnt necessarily "alone" (they come and go as the day goes on from his pasture to their own, and no he for sre hasnt gotten into any cattle feed, they are fed on a entirely different piece of property)
The rest of his life should be good-diet and pasture. I would treat him for ulcers and take him off the sweet feed. Unless he is a hard keeper he doesn't even need grain with good hay. Bet you see a difference
I can get the same feed in a pellet form for $1 more, but this has just always worked for me. why fix it if it aint broke. And no matter whta hay i put in front of him, costal, peanut hay, alfalfa he walks away and leaves it and will pick on it through out the day, or let the other horses eat it. He honestly just doesnt act like hes hungry!
but again by all means i am open to nutional plans!
This is a classic symptom of ulcers. Every horse I've ever had come through my barn that left alfalfa on the ground, would start eating everything in sight once treated for ulcers.
I think you've been given some really great advice. Once treated, you can maintain ulcers with the nutrition changes already mentioned (low starch diet, lots of alfalfa). But if you really like your feed program and want to stay with it, just think about treating for ulcers and then leaving him on a good preventative.
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| I have a mare that is ulcer prone. I would start him on UGard. Because he is a picky eater, give him 60 ccs 30 minutes before you feed him. I would also change feed. Sr feed is the best because of it's easy digestibility. I feed Blue Bonnet Sr Intensify. Also feed Alfalfa hay and Timothy if you can get it. | |
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| Barnmom - 2017-02-09 10:33 AM I agree with the other posters about the sweet feed. That said, I constantly get my a$$ kicked on the track by horses fed gallons of the stuff, those horses look great and run great. I am sure there are lots of pro girls hauling hard that feed sweet feed also. I think you should probably treat for ulcers and see what happens, if he does better then you have your answer. I would also put him on a gastro protective product just to cover your self if he gets stressed in the future.
I totally agree with this... I know for a fact 3 not girls who feed sweet feed. But again, I'm all for what works for YOUR horse
im very grateful for all the advice I'm definitely going to do a 360 on his feeding program as soon as he finishes what he has. I'm gonna start bumping his feed down tonight though | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Another point is a horse with ulcers, often caused or made worse by sweet feed, will look rough and lose weight. I ditched grain in everything right now but an old pony on Active Senior and weanlings get Ultium Growth in pretty small amounts. I soak beet and alfalfa pellets. I sound like a broken record but even my show horse is on a no grain diet. Just the soaked feed and free choice grass hay. I swear to you he is in as good of condition as any other horse at the shows. He's also shy of 17 hands and very leggy. Never has been a hard keeper and has a beautiful hair coat. He gets THE Muscle Mass for his vitamins. | |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | wyoming barrel racer - 2017-02-09 12:56 PM Another point is a horse with ulcers, often caused or made worse by sweet feed, will look rough and lose weight. I ditched grain in everything right now but an old pony on Active Senior and weanlings get Ultium Growth in pretty small amounts. I soak beet and alfalfa pellets. I sound like a broken record but even my show horse is on a no grain diet. Just the soaked feed and free choice grass hay. I swear to you he is in as good of condition as any other horse at the shows. He's also shy of 17 hands and very leggy. Never has been a hard keeper and has a beautiful hair coat. He gets THE Muscle Mass for his vitamins.
And he's GAW-JOUS!!!!!!!!  | |
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Color Coordination Director
| This is our stud, who was scooped and confirmed ulcers last year, we have treated and they are healed, he has been processed grain free for almost a year now. He gets all he wants Alfafla, has free choice mineral and we give him a little Renew Gold twice a day just so he thinks he is getting something.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | is there a certain reason you are feeding him SO much grain? Is he in a workout program? That's A LOT of grain for one horse. Mine only get 3 pounds am and pm of Tribute Kalm n EZ along with 5 pounds of a T and A hay mix and they clean it up. Both in great shape. Its has enough to keep the weight on my barrel horse in work and enough to not make my idle horse fat. I would highly recommend getting him off that nasty sweet feed and getting him on something better. Sweet feed is like candy to kids. I used to think I had a "picky eater" on my hands until I did more digging and found, he had ulcers. Best of Luck !! | |
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