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Veteran
Posts: 148
 
| I have a horse that has bled confirmed by scoping. Doesn't bleed out nostril. She does not run well on lasix. Any other suggestions for pre race and daily supplement? |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | THE has a supplement called Lung Function (used to be PulmonEZ). It has done wonders for some of my customer's bleeders. Some are able to use minimal lasix and some none at all. Depends on the how well the horse is kept hydrated, exercised etc. They do have a 45 day money back guarantee. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| If the horse bleeds internally but can't run on lasix then retire. It is not worth the horse's health to get nasty lung infections and potentially die from them. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | Bleeder stop dailt by oxygen and race x for pre race paste. Works on every horse I've used it on. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 317
Location: MS | I just retired the nicest barrel horse I've ever had because he doesn't tolerate more than 3 of lasix. He started bleeding through that.
I tried everything and spent a small fortune to figure out what caused him to bleed.
Nothing worked. He's too nice to risk doing anymore harm. I didn't enjoy running him because I was always worried about him bleeding.
Edited by 1paintedjewel 2017-02-23 12:03 PM
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | Its a bitter pill to swallow but for the best interest of the horse. .sometimes retirement is the best and healthiest option...been there done that......m |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| I'm in the same situation, one of my mares is 7 and a light bleeder..anything over 2 or 3ccs I swear she goes goofy...I'm going to give Equipulmin a try, I know it's $150 a gallon, but I can hardly get her to eat supplements in her grain too.
Does the Lung stuff from THE come in a powder or pellet form ? I'm up for trying anything besides lasix |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | Kentucky Red is an option to try as well. |
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Member
Posts: 6
| Lasix is typically the go-to, but only treats the symptoms, not the fundamental problem.
Check out this article on conditioning. Very good information, but it is more involved than just feeding something or injecting something. Having a horse "in shape" and this conditioning are two different things.
https://thoroedge.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/eiph-if-youre-not-breezin...
I have had success and have seen others have success. But, you must stick to it. |
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Veteran
Posts: 148
| Thanks everyone. She's in great shape and does not bleed all the time. She has allergies and received allergy shots. I notice it more with the season changed and this winter we have been 70 one day and 30 the next. I don't believe she's bad enough for retirement. |
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Veteran
Posts: 148
| Great article |
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Regular
Posts: 84
| I also second Kentucky red! I also have all of my horses on Vit k and C powder daily, regardless of suspected bleeding or not. Just like you said, slight bleeding can be contributed to lots of other things (ie. temp changes, allergies) If she has major allergy issues, I also suggest wind aid by hawthorne products. It has done tons of horses I know wonders. Its not just a breathing aid, but helps with allergies, chronic copd, etc. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| cmcelroy0308 - 2017-02-23 8:40 PM
Thanks everyone. She's in great shape and does not bleed all the time. She has allergies and received allergy shots. I notice it more with the season changed and this winter we have been 70 one day and 30 the next. I don't believe she's bad enough for retirement.
Do you have her scoped after every workout, exhibition, or barrel race? You should shes an internal bleeder only so how would you not know if she is bleeding?
I don't understand ppl I have personally seen two have to be retired due owners believing in the some magic supplement or paste. They thought their horse was not bleeding. It was and it scared the airways, spent $2k in antibiotics getting it better, and have a very expensive pasture pet now due to the risk of bleeding out and this horse saw 2 different respiratory guru vets.
The second horse actually almost died just from the infection in the lungs because the owners refused to believe it was an issue.
So sad.
Edited by astreakinchic 2017-02-24 12:21 PM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I've seen a lot of people on here come down hard on others that have horses that bleed. I was at my vet discussing bleeders a while ago. I told him I have never had one that I know of, and he said most horses do bleed if they are ridden enough to even matter. But most of us have no idea because a lot of them either don't do it bad enough to hurt their performance or we don't run at an elite level. Those that do weekend jackpots here and there. He said we'd be shocked if we all scoped all of our horses after every strenuous ride. Even a training sesson at home. |
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Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | I think ppl come down hard because some ppl come across as not taking it seriously or thinking its not that big of an issue...and imo its one of the underlying issues with a lot of horses....there are a ton of signs to watch for.....i have had 3 bleeders to date and 1 had to be retired before she turned 8..very hard as she was one of the best ones i ever had....m |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | mruggles - 2017-02-24 12:15 PM I think ppl come down hard because some ppl come across as not taking it seriously or thinking its not that big of an issue...and imo its one of the underlying issues with a lot of horses....there are a ton of signs to watch for.....i have had 3 bleeders to date and 1 had to be retired before she turned 8..very hard as she was one of the best ones i ever had....m
Oh I agree if it is a known bleeder. But some I am sure are riding bleeders right now, and have no idea. The whole deal just sucks all the way around. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| so another question for those that feed supplements or herbs for bleeders, can you honestly tell difference and can you cut back on the amount of lasix? I wish there was a clear answer for this :( |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Wild1 - 2017-02-24 12:20 PM so another question for those that feed supplements or herbs for bleeders, can you honestly tell difference and can you cut back on the amount of lasix? I wish there was a clear answer for this :(
I had a customer on here that was able to. She scoped after having him on it for a couple of months. Any feed through change can take up to 30 days to work. I don't think she posts on BHW anymore though. |
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Veteran
Posts: 148
| First off, I will be he first to retire her if need be. Yes I've had her scoped after works outs ect. A couple times she did not bleed. She had some minimal changes in her lungs that showed at some point she has bled. I love posting on here and reading. Knowledge from others experiences are a great tool. I know there's no magic supplement to cure. But there's always something that can help. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| cmcelroy0308 - 2017-02-24 11:44 PM
First off, I will be he first to retire her if need be. Yes I've had her scoped after works outs ect. A couple times she did not bleed. She had some minimal changes in her lungs that showed at some point she has bled. I love posting on here and reading. Knowledge from others experiences are a great tool. I know there's no magic supplement to cure. But there's always something that can help.
O E Nutraceuticals Wind. I have several customers who have had great results on their bleeders with this product. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | cmcelroy0308 - 2017-02-24 11:44 PM First off, I will be he first to retire her if need be. Yes I've had her scoped after works outs ect. A couple times she did not bleed. She had some minimal changes in her lungs that showed at some point she has bled. I love posting on here and reading. Knowledge from others experiences are a great tool. I know there's no magic supplement to cure. But there's always something that can help.
Did you have a BAL done on your horse? If not ask your vet if You can have one done. It will guide you in the avenue to take with your horses specific issue.
http://liphookequinehospital.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/InvestigationofAirwayDiseases.pdf
This maybe a difficult read if you have any questions write them down and talk to your vet about them.
As an Assistant Trainer on a busy track in the Heat of Texas back in the mid 80's I had the displeasure of dealing with bleeders. I worked up horses and had a very good vet (that has since passed on) help me with many on our shed row.
I learned one treatment didn't cure all. We used herbs and a bit of lasix. Most important was their conditioning and shoeing-we used leather during those days for concussive abatement. If they bled time off and treatment with meds.
I want to make the point that just because you get an onsite immediate scope post a run and it appears clean can be false, some horse never have the blood come up into the trachea yet on their cytology they're full of obvious cells of blood in their terminal airways. The very airways that respiration takes place.
We deal with lots of bleeders in my area in the barrel pen. Not only are we the allergy capital of the world for humans I believe we are too for horses.
I have a young friend that has scoped lots of horses with mucous this season. We need to be aggressive to control that and knowing how to do so takes important diagnositic data so that were on top of best managment practices. |
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Veteran
Posts: 148
| Yes had BAL done that's when we got confirmation of bleeding. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | I've been having REALLY good luck with Equipulmin!!! 60cc/daily dose and 120cc/day two days pre run and an hour before. My mare did not run well on lasix either.
There's also a recommended loading dose. I did not do it because I started her on it several months before bringing her in from winter break. She has far more energy overall, is happier and actually takes the syringe right out of my hand now for it.
Edited by jschipper 2017-02-27 12:24 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 148
| That's great to know. Was just looking at that. |
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Veteran
Posts: 148
| So you give 60 cc everyday? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| jschipper - 2017-02-27 12:21 PM
I've been having REALLY good luck with Equipulmin!!! 60cc/daily dose and 120cc/day two days pre run and an hour before. My mare did not run well on lasix either.
There's also a recommended loading dose. I did not do it because I started her on it several months before bringing her in from winter break. She has far more energy overall, is happier and actually takes the syringe right out of my hand now for it.
How long will a gallon last if you do maintenence doses daily? At $155 per gallon this sounds crazy expensive as a supplement? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | cmcelroy0308 - 2017-02-27 11:05 AM
So you give 60 cc everyday?
yes I give her 60cc every single day. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | Wild1 - 2017-02-27 11:30 AM
jschipper - 2017-02-27 12:21 PM
I've been having REALLY good luck with Equipulmin!!! 60cc/daily dose and 120cc/day two days pre run and an hour before. My mare did not run well on lasix either.
There's also a recommended loading dose. I did not do it because I started her on it several months before bringing her in from winter break. She has far more energy overall, is happier and actually takes the syringe right out of my hand now for it.
How long will a gallon last if you do maintenence doses daily? At $155 per gallon this sounds crazy expensive as a supplement?
well, a gallon is 3785cc -- at 60cc/day that's approx. 2 months. priced out, thats comparable to most supplements. I have another horse on 30cc/day because he LOVES it (will actually grab the syringe out of my hand while im dosing the other horse) and I go through one gallon every 1-1.5 months. It's actually super affordable. I was really unsure about trying it because I felt it was expensive but its really not. And Ive seen a huge change in my mare. It's actually replaced cur-ost total for her. And I love that stuff!
Edited by jschipper 2017-02-27 2:37 PM
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Bleeder