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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
  
Location: Alberta, Canada | I just got some possibly devastating news on a mare I purchased in the fall and had high hopes for and before I give up on her, I'm looking for advice, experiences, etc.
This is what I'm told to be a VERY rare hereditary issue in horses -- my mare has abnormally small red blood cells. Not a lack of red blood cells... but the actual size of the cells is small. I sent blood to my blood analysis guy because she is always extremely body sore and has been a challenge to keep healthy. He has seen this only a handful of times in his 15 year career and has never seen one go on to have a successful performance horse career because they just don't have the stamina to do so.
Before I make my decision as to what to do, I'm looking for anyone who may have heard of or had any experience with this issue. I'm not the type to give up and even if I can just give this mare an opportunity to be comfortable, I am willing to do what I can!
Any suggestions?? Thanks in advance :) |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| No help, just wanted to say how sorry y I am to read this. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| What does the vet say?
Have you tested for pssm?
Being body sore I would be testing ck levels |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | cheryl makofka - 2017-03-16 12:37 PM
What does the vet say?
Have you tested for pssm?
Being body sore I would be testing ck levels
I have not talked to a vet yet. I have talked to my blood analysis guy who looks directly at the blood. She does not have pssm. I'm just looking for experiences with this specific issue. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | any anemia associated with it? |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I would be looking for a vet to get a second opinion, would not hurt. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | Southtxponygirl - 2017-03-16 1:08 PM
I would be looking for a vet to get a second opinion, would not hurt.
Yes, I have a message in to my vet :) |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| hoofs_in_motion - 2017-03-16 3:01 PM
any anemia associated with it?
This was my first thought .... and then also, did the blood analysis guy mention any abnormal hemoglobin indications?
As I understand it - this is hereditary too, right? |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | jschipper - 2017-03-16 3:36 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2017-03-16 1:08 PM
I would be looking for a vet to get a second opinion, would not hurt.
Yes, I have a message in to my vet : )
Hopefully you will have some better news coming from your Vet  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | lindseylou2290 - 2017-03-16 1:45 PM
hoofs_in_motion - 2017-03-16 3:01 PM
any anemia associated with it?
This was my first thought .... and then also, did the blood analysis guy mention any abnormal hemoglobin indications?
As I understand it - this is hereditary too, right?
No anemia, but alot of shadow cells. In fact, she did not have a single healthy red blood cell.
This man is brilliant. He is the sole reason my good mare is alive. He was able to help her when vets had written her off. He has also helped people beat cancer... so you can see how this is extremely alarming to hear from him. He has been a constant for my crew... has helped us in more ways than I can count and has done more for my horses than any other member of my 'crew'. I've never heard the words 'there's not much hope' come from his lips :( |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | jschipper - 2017-03-16 2:49 PM
cheryl makofka - 2017-03-16 12:37 PM
What does the vet say?
Have you tested for pssm?
Being body sore I would be testing ck levels
I have not talked to a vet yet. I have talked to my blood analysis guy who looks directly at the blood. She does not have pssm. I'm just looking for experiences with this specific issue.
vets also look directly at blood too... it would be worth consulting with a boarded internist. |
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Member
Posts: 29
| On what equipment did he run the samples? How was the blood sample handled? Been a vet for 25+ years, never heard of microcytosis without accompanying anemia, and that's most often caused by iron deficiency.
You need a CBC run at a large laboratory that has the proper equipment to evaluate. Maybe that was done? They need to review all the cell parameters: red cell volume, hemoglobin concentration etc. and to have someone evaluate the histogram that provides the quality control for the sample. Also need to make a slide and check morphology of the red cells by a person and not a machine.
Sample handling could definitely alter RBC size without there being any pathology. Shipping/mailing the sample alters the shape and size of red cells. How slides were prepared (if they were prepared) can also affect red cell size. For example, if the fixative portion of the dye isn't the right strength or is too concentrated or old, it distorts the red cells and can make them look small.
What kind of cells did he say there were? There are literally dozens of known alterations in red cell size and shape, and they all have different causes and meanings.
What is the hereditary issue?
I would love to review the results. I review and interpret clinical pathology results every day. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| shepsrus - 2017-03-16 5:56 PM
On what equipment did he run the samples? How was the blood sample handled? Been a vet for 25+ years, never heard of microcytosis without accompanying anemia, and that's most often caused by iron deficiency.
You need a CBC run at a large laboratory that has the proper equipment to evaluate. Maybe that was done? They need to review all the cell parameters: red cell volume, hemoglobin concentration etc. and to have someone evaluate the histogram that provides the quality control for the sample. Also need to make a slide and check morphology of the red cells by a person and not a machine.
Sample handling could definitely alter RBC size without there being any pathology. Shipping/mailing the sample alters the shape and size of red cells. How slides were prepared (if they were prepared) can also affect red cell size. For example, if the fixative portion of the dye isn't the right strength or is too concentrated or old, it distorts the red cells and can make them look small.
What kind of cells did he say there were? There are literally dozens of known alterations in red cell size and shape, and they all have different causes and meanings.
What is the hereditary issue?
I would love to review the results. I review and interpret clinical pathology results every day.
Wow I love this board. What an awesome reply! |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | shepsrus - 2017-03-16 5:56 PM On what equipment did he run the samples? How was the blood sample handled? Been a vet for 25+ years, never heard of microcytosis without accompanying anemia, and that's most often caused by iron deficiency. You need a CBC run at a large laboratory that has the proper equipment to evaluate. Maybe that was done? They need to review all the cell parameters: red cell volume, hemoglobin concentration etc. and to have someone evaluate the histogram that provides the quality control for the sample. Also need to make a slide and check morphology of the red cells by a person and not a machine. Sample handling could definitely alter RBC size without there being any pathology. Shipping/mailing the sample alters the shape and size of red cells. How slides were prepared (if they were prepared) can also affect red cell size. For example, if the fixative portion of the dye isn't the right strength or is too concentrated or old, it distorts the red cells and can make them look small. What kind of cells did he say there were? There are literally dozens of known alterations in red cell size and shape, and they all have different causes and meanings. What is the hereditary issue? I would love to review the results. I review and interpret clinical pathology results every day.
This makes so much more sense  |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Did he tell you the actual name of the disorder? Did he say "Hereditary spherocytosis"? Just curious. Did he mention whether or not splenectomy is helpful? Did he say anything about antibodies causing this? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | I want to thank everyone for their time and responses. I don't have the answers to so many questions based on this one reading and all of your responses have helped me to realize this!
The first individual I contacted after I got this call was Dr. Tom Schell with Cur Ost. He has helped me in the past and I believe whole heartedly in his program. He had several suggestions and outlined exactly what information I need for him to help us to the best of his ability. I will be getting an actual CBC blood panel done via a vet to find out more. From everything I can gather -- there is no reason this shouldn't be able to be sorted out. And she's a pretty cool mare now so I look forward to helping her feel better :)
I did read each and every response and I again thank you all for every word! |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | Please keep us updated.especially on the CBC.good luck with your girl:) |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | jschipper - 2017-03-17 8:49 AM I want to thank everyone for their time and responses. I don't have the answers to so many questions based on this one reading and all of your responses have helped me to realize this! The first individual I contacted after I got this call was Dr. Tom Schell with Cur Ost. He has helped me in the past and I believe whole heartedly in his program. He had several suggestions and outlined exactly what information I need for him to help us to the best of his ability. I will be getting an actual CBC blood panel done via a vet to find out more. From everything I can gather -- there is no reason this shouldn't be able to be sorted out. And she's a pretty cool mare now so I look forward to helping her feel better :) I did read each and every response and I again thank you all for every word!
Awesome! I hope you'll keep us posted. Dr. Schell is awesome and has lots of tricks up his sleeve.  |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Never heard of this. I am so sorry to hear this. I hope you get some good results whatever you do. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| shepsrus - 2017-03-16 5:56 PM
On what equipment did he run the samples? How was the blood sample handled? Been a vet for 25+ years, never heard of microcytosis without accompanying anemia, and that's most often caused by iron deficiency.
You need a CBC run at a large laboratory that has the proper equipment to evaluate. Maybe that was done? They need to review all the cell parameters: red cell volume, hemoglobin concentration etc. and to have someone evaluate the histogram that provides the quality control for the sample. Also need to make a slide and check morphology of the red cells by a person and not a machine.
Sample handling could definitely alter RBC size without there being any pathology. Shipping/mailing the sample alters the shape and size of red cells. How slides were prepared (if they were prepared) can also affect red cell size. For example, if the fixative portion of the dye isn't the right strength or is too concentrated or old, it distorts the red cells and can make them look small.
What kind of cells did he say there were? There are literally dozens of known alterations in red cell size and shape, and they all have different causes and meanings.
What is the hereditary issue?
I would love to review the results. I review and interpret clinical pathology results every day.
Listen to this person. You said there was not one healthy red blood cells. I would think that would indicate a bad sample but you never know. A second opinion never hurts anyone. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | shepsrus - 2017-03-16 3:56 PM
On what equipment did he run the samples? How was the blood sample handled? Been a vet for 25+ years, never heard of microcytosis without accompanying anemia, and that's most often caused by iron deficiency.
You need a CBC run at a large laboratory that has the proper equipment to evaluate. Maybe that was done? They need to review all the cell parameters: red cell volume, hemoglobin concentration etc. and to have someone evaluate the histogram that provides the quality control for the sample. Also need to make a slide and check morphology of the red cells by a person and not a machine.
Sample handling could definitely alter RBC size without there being any pathology. Shipping/mailing the sample alters the shape and size of red cells. How slides were prepared (if they were prepared) can also affect red cell size. For example, if the fixative portion of the dye isn't the right strength or is too concentrated or old, it distorts the red cells and can make them look small.
What kind of cells did he say there were? There are literally dozens of known alterations in red cell size and shape, and they all have different causes and meanings.
What is the hereditary issue?
I would love to review the results. I review and interpret clinical pathology results every day.
If you are open to it, would you be willing to take a look at the CBC and chemistry panels when I get them back? At this point I feel like there's no such thing as too many eyes, and I can learn from every one who takes a look at them!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 964
Location: Alberta, Canada | Just wanted to update everyone on what's going on with my mare -- since everyone was so helpful and encouraging!!
I had gone through our backyard vet for a CBC and Chemistry panel. He never got back to me. He also never charged me so it is what it is.
My good vet was up last week (she works on Deb Guelly's horses as well as Lindsay's Martha :)) so we pulled again. Turns out my mare has nothing more than a respiratory infection. There is no indication that she is even anemic!!! We are confident that we can get her under control, and even if the problem is chronic, a Cur-Ost program will be in place to help with that :)
I am so excited to get her feeling better and thank each and every one of you for the thoughts and direction! |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Wow, what a relief for you! Thanks for the update! |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | I've been waiting on this update.GOOD DEAL!!!!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| That sounds a lot better than what the first vet said. Sounds like that first draw was not good. Good call on the second opinion. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas |  |
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small red blood cells?