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Member
Posts: 32
| So i have been looking for stallions to breed my mare to next spring and think i have found one. I really like the song of Frenchans Guy, Guys Canyon Moon. I mean, who wouldn't like him!!!
My Mare is a granddaughter of Frenchmans Guy though... Is this too closely related?
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/so+all+american+gal |
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 Veteran
Posts: 112
| I would call this more line breeding. In-breeding would be more along the lines of breeding a daughter back the sire, stuff like that. I personally would try to get some more variety though, and find something that isn't frenchmans guy bred. I think there are a lot of good ones out there to pick from! |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
 
Location: OH | I would do it in a heartbeat but I linebreed the Sun Frost line all the time. |
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Member
Posts: 32
| Mighty Broke - 2017-03-28 7:25 AM
I would do it in a heartbeat but I linebreed the Sun Frost line all the time.
awesome, thanks |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Linebreeding if it works well. Inbreeding if it does not. |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gcm+american
I have a lot of respect for FG and his ability to sire horses that can succeed in the arena and the breeding shed. They are solid minded and have some speed. Especially when crossed on more speed, they still turn. He's a potent sire and great looking horse.
This cross is not too intense even though IMO it is inbreeding. Anything in the first 4 generations that is doubled is inbreeding. It would be better if the second cross on FG was through a daughter of FG. Even then, this horse could be a superstar and then go on to be a terrific producer/sire of barrel horses. But I might be slightly prejudice, I have a stallion that is double bred to Jet Deck in exactly the same places this hypo mating is to FG. I adore him and he's a very consistent sire. All of his babies take after him in all the ways that matter. |
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Member
Posts: 32
| OregonBR - 2017-03-28 10:52 AM
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gcm+american
I have a lot of respect for FG and his ability to sire horses that can succeed in the arena and the breeding shed. They are solid minded and have some speed. Especially when crossed on more speed, they still turn. He's a potent sire and great looking horse.
This cross is not too intense even though IMO it is inbreeding. Anything in the first 4 generations that is doubled is inbreeding. It would be better if the second cross on FG was through a daughter of FG. Even then, this horse could be a superstar and then go on to be a terrific producer/sire of barrel horses. But I might be slightly prejudice, I have a stallion that is double bred to Jet Deck in exactly the same places this hypo mating is to FG. I adore him and he's a very consistent sire. All of his babies take after him in all the ways that matter.
Thanks for your input and the hypo breeding on allbreed!!! |
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Member
Posts: 47
| Repeating the phrase "line breeding if it works, in breeding if its not" Not the same bloodline at all, but this is my gelding http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tivios+star+doc who is very closely linebred. From the information I've gathered, he is very similar to his 3/4 siblings, etc. but find he's a bit more "intense" with things. Similar to dogs, traits can be exemplified in a tightly bred cross, and those traits can be either good or bad. My point is, I wouldn't be afraid of that cross being too close because there has been tighter crosses out there and many people don't seem to blink an eye at |
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 Regular
Posts: 62
Location: Oklahoma | A great man once said "its not inbreeding if they are smart, its inbreeding if they are dumb" I know he is joking but its still funny. My gelding I run now is line bred.
Edited by Gennap1010 2017-03-31 9:04 AM
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Posts: 224
Location: So Cal | winwillows - 2017-03-28 8:37 AM
Linebreeding if it works well. Inbreeding if it does not.
Haha, that's what I came here to say. |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Inbreeding is when there is no attention paid to sex linked traits.
Linebreeding is when careful consideration is paid to sex linked traits.
A duplicate name is not necessarily either. However if they were both shallow in the pedigree I would question the breeder what traits they where trying to emphasize. The old timers were pretty good at this. I dont think many now days know what they are doing.
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Veteran
Posts: 217
| Whiteboy - 2017-03-31 11:42 AM
Inbreeding is when there is no attention paid to sex linked traits.
Linebreeding is when careful consideration is paid to sex linked traits.
A duplicate name is not necessarily either. However if they were both shallow in the pedigree I would question the breeder what traits they where trying to emphasize. The old timers were pretty good at this. I dont think many now days know what they are doing.
Could you expand further on this? I know to always look for conformation and brain but this I have no clue on. Why I've always steered clear from very closely line bred horses. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| mgander - 2017-03-31 10:49 AM Whiteboy - 2017-03-31 11:42 AM Inbreeding is when there is no attention paid to sex linked traits.
Linebreeding is when careful consideration is paid to sex linked traits.
A duplicate name is not necessarily either. However if they were both shallow in the pedigree I would question the breeder what traits they where trying to emphasize. The old timers were pretty good at this. I dont think many now days know what they are doing.
Could you expand further on this? I know to always look for conformation and brain but this I have no clue on. Why I've always steered clear from very closely line bred horses.
I am not an expert by any means. Speedhorse Magazine has lots of articles on this though. We even have some pretty knowledgeable BB's here. OregonBR has a pretty good handle on this I believe. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Whiteboy - 2017-03-31 8:42 AM
Inbreeding is when there is no attention paid to sex linked traits.
Linebreeding is when careful consideration is paid to sex linked traits.
A duplicate name is not necessarily either. However if they were both shallow in the pedigree I would question the breeder what traits they where trying to emphasize. The old timers were pretty good at this. I dont think many now days know what they are doing.
Oldtimers bred fathers to daughters. Full sister to her own brother. Horses by the same sire to each other (Leo). There's more than one reason to breed that close. One is to find recessives. The other is to make a superior breeding animal. Sometimes it happens because someone didn't geld or their fences sucked. I don't give those crosses much respect. Some of the best breeding animals come from people who had a plan. Very few people know enough about horses or genetics to have a successful line/inbreeding program. IMO it's a long term project. You will not see market reward in the short term. Most uninformed people are afraid of a closely bred animal. Therefore they will be more difficult to sell until they succeed.
If someone is genuinely interested in learning about linebreeding and inbreeding, there are many articles that come up on a search. Some of the best ones are related to breeding thoroughbreds.
Edited by OregonBR 2017-03-31 11:36 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
Location: MN | Not to steal the thread at all but can someone tell me what kind of breeding this would be?
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/little+joseph+man
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Kay-DRacing. - 2017-03-31 9:35 AM
Not to steal the thread at all but can someone tell me what kind of breeding this would be?
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/little+joseph+man
I would call it linebreeding. There are 3 horses in the pedigree that appear more than once. But there seems to be no pattern or intent. Pretty random. The breeders probably didn't have anything in mind except to breed two horses to get a baby. Many people who breed horses don't pay attention to pedigree. They look at the horse and breed on phenotype. And that's fine too. I'd rather see people try to breed what they see in front of them to avoid flawed conformation than try to breed based only on pedigree or percentage of a certain horse. IMO the biggest fault of today's breeders is breeding for a marketable pedigree without LOOKING at the horses they are going to cross. Many well bred train wrecks out there. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: SE KS | Here's the link live!
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/little+joseph+man |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | http://www.acsedu.com/info/pets/equine/inbreeding-horses.aspx
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/112009/pedigree-ana...
http://www.horse-genetics.com/genetichealthandfitnessinhorses.html
http://www.behindthebitblog.com/2009/03/line-breeding-close-breedin...
Those are some that came up with a search on " What is inbreeding in horses". Once you begin to learn, you can refine the search to learn more about Sex balanced inbreeding, etc...
Terminology is not set in stone. I choose to follow the inbreeding = within 3 generations. Linebreeding = 4th generation and further back. You can also say Close breeding for a VERY close cross like father to daughter or full/half siblings.
One thing I think is important is for anyone breeding animals to know how genetics works. Dominant vs recessive, homozygosity vs heterozygosity. Genetic disorders and how they are passed on. What causes an affected horse. Etc... If someone can't master basic genetics, they shouldn't be breeding anything.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
Location: MN | OregonBR - 2017-03-31 11:47 AM I would call it linebreeding. There are 3 horses in the pedigree that appear more than once. But there seems to be no pattern or intent. Pretty random. The breeders probably didn't have anything in mind except to breed two horses to get a baby. Many people who breed horses don't pay attention to pedigree. They look at the horse and breed on phenotype. And that's fine too. I'd rather see people try to breed what they see in front of them to avoid flawed conformation than try to breed based only on pedigree or percentage of a certain horse. IMO the biggest fault of today's breeders is breeding for a marketable pedigree without LOOKING at the horses they are going to cross. Many well bred train wrecks out there.
Thank you! I have to totally agree with you.
This was my late pole horse. 99% foundation, beautiful line backed dunn and he was very correct, conformation wise. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| OregonBR - 2017-03-31 11:47 AM
Kay-DRacing. - 2017-03-31 9:35 AM
Not to steal the thread at all but can someone tell me what kind of breeding this would be?
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/little+joseph+man
I would call it linebreeding. There are 3 horses in the pedigree that appear more than once. But there seems to be no pattern or intent. Pretty random. The breeders probably didn't have anything in mind except to breed two horses to get a baby. Many people who breed horses don't pay attention to pedigree. They look at the horse and breed on phenotype. And that's fine too. I'd rather see people try to breed what they see in front of them to avoid flawed conformation than try to breed based only on pedigree or percentage of a certain horse. IMO the biggest fault of today's breeders is breeding for a marketable pedigree without LOOKING at the horses they are going to cross. Many well bred train wrecks out there.
Your last statement.
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 Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving |
Ditto. I try and look for sex balanced at least while line breeding. This is one of my Broodmares. I love her but I don't know if I would have had the guts to do the cross myself. I try and use her as an outcross on streakin six or special effort type studs.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/let+loose
As per your original post if I were you I'd look for something that's got Frenchmans guy on the dam side like dams sire. There are lots out there to choose from. Not knocking this stud he's a handsome devil. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | ndiehl - 2017-04-01 9:13 AM
Ditto. I try and look for sex balanced at least while line breeding. This is one of my Broodmares. I love her but I don't know if I would have had the guts to do the cross myself. I try and use her as an outcross on streakin six or special effort type studs.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/let+loose
As per your original post if I were you I'd look for something that's got Frenchmans guy on the dam side like dams sire. There are lots out there to choose from. Not knocking this stud he's a handsome devil.
Very good example of sex balanced inbreeding. Have you been able to get any babies to the track or arena from this mare? If you have some babies are they very similar to each other?
I'm with you. I prefer not to dabble in breeding that close myself. But I sure would buy a mare or stallion who is bred that close. They breed true to their own type. |
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Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | OregonBR - 2017-04-03 11:25 AM
ndiehl - 2017-04-01 9:13 AM
Ditto. I try and look for sex balanced at least while line breeding. This is one of my Broodmares. I love her but I don't know if I would have had the guts to do the cross myself. I try and use her as an outcross on streakin six or special effort type studs.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/let+loose
As per your original post if I were you I'd look for something that's got Frenchmans guy on the dam side like dams sire. There are lots out there to choose from. Not knocking this stud he's a handsome devil.
Very good example of sex balanced inbreeding. Have you been able to get any babies to the track or arena from this mare? If you have some babies are they very similar to each other?
I'm with you. I prefer not to dabble in breeding that close myself. But I sure would buy a mare or stallion who is bred that close. They breed true to their own type.
She's had one baby go to the track that is a race winner and stakes placed with 21300 in earnings. He's also a lot like her with a puppy dog personality and is now a pony horse. She's raced, been on tv and the sets with the noise and lighting as well as being a broodmare and nothing phases her.
Edited by ndiehl 2017-04-03 9:41 PM
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OK breeding Gurus... Is it line breeding or inbreeding?