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Posts: 23
| I know this has been discussed before, but I want to bring it up again considering newer saddles that have come out. I am looking for a saddle that will make me REALLY sit back and keep my feet forward in the turns. I know a larger seat and longer stirrups will help, but I just don't know what kind of saddle to try - Martin FX3? Performance saddle? What REALLY keeps your butt down and feet forward? |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
 
| Well, I'd like to offer an alternative to your longer stirrups and bigger seat...
There's a clinician in California (I think, help with the lady's name anyone?), that advocates for people to shorten their stirrups a great deal. Like, so when you stand up, you've got about a foot between you and your saddle. This offers you a more stable platform for your feet, your feet can't get behind you, and therefore you can't tip forward and get dashboarded as easily. Core strength and riding ability should be increased if the rider is having trouble with this. If your stirrups are too long, your toe tips downwards, which also causes you to be off balance to the front, and your forehead is too far forward.
Now I've tried for the full effect of the clinician lady's tips (help with her name!), and it most certainly picks your feet forward and puts your butt down hard in that saddle. You're forced to engage your core, and it helps you sit properly through a turn. It only took me about 5 or 6 rides to get used to it. I don't go for the full effect like she demonstrated in her video in my Coats saddle, but I do have a good 9-10 inches between me and the saddle when I stand in my stirrups. It's absolutely helped me, and I've been riding better and more stable. It truly makes you focus on how you're riding your horse, because if you get to being too dramatic, you get too high in the air. I have a full foot in my Lynn McKenzie Nueva, and I can really really sit a turn better!
The caveat to this (and I've learned the hard way), that if a colt comes undone, it's a WHOLE lot easier to get unloaded.  My colt saddle is adjusted so I've only got a couple of inches of clearance.
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Member
Posts: 23
| Thanks for above - interesting. Looking for thoughts on saddle types, though too. I have been riding in Bob Marshalls and want to go to something treed. Not sure where to start. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
 
| I love my Josey Ultimate. It has forward hung stirrups an I bought a 16 inch seat because that is what my trainer recommended. Joseys is bad about selling you a saddle with a seat that is too small. They sold a girl a 14 1/2 inch seat and she had a caboose way bigger than mine. I even offered to let her try mine and she got very the amount of room she has in the saddle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXC_xD8HNLw&feature=youtu.be |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1035
Location: TN | I've had an FX3 and it did help with this but with the Martin gullet philosophy it didn't fit a variety of horses (it just fit the one I bought it for). I would try a Shiloh contender or finalist. I have a finalist now and love it!! Another thing is to really concentrate on sitting down deep. I have a tendency to lean too far forward in a run so I really have to focus on sitting down and back in the turns. My Shiloh allows me to change my position super easily so that helps too. |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Well if you're looking for a saddle with a tree, then can't go wrong with Double J or Coats, plus they hold their value.
I ride a Lynn McKenzie because she is short and stout, and so am I. I find that my center of gravity jives with the designs she likes. I've tried Cervi saddles and James saddles, and just couldn't make them feel right. I kept falling out of the Wright saddles.
Several riders I know that keep getting dashboarded and are used to a treeless have been loving the Pozzi Double Js. When I get ready to get another saddle, that's what I want to try.
Edited by classicpotatochip 2017-03-29 7:58 AM
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Member
Posts: 23
| Hmm... Double J and Coats is what my trainer recommended too. Thank you. |
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Member
Posts: 23
| Anybody have thoughts on the Circle Y Flex2 tree? Am I going to have the same issues with a Flex tree as I do with "dashboarding" in my Bob Marshall? (Love that term!) |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Hoot&Holler - 2017-03-29 8:07 AM Anybody have thoughts on the Circle Y Flex2 tree? Am I going to have the same issues with a Flex tree as I do with "dashboarding" in my Bob Marshall? (Love that term!)
Circle Y is a cheaper made saddle. They do not hold their value and they are very hard to sit down in to me simply because they don't have as flat of a seat as I like. Coats and Double J are very different in quality, but the Double Js are very popular so they will hold their value. Coats uses better leather and will always hold their value no matter the market. Chocolate saddles are also very popular so if you do end up with one try and get a chocolate leather just to make selling easier. I'm sure in a few months everyone will be back to antiqued leather or light oil or chestnut. But for now, chocolate is very popular.
Does your Bob Marshall have the Allison rigging or is it traditional? You can actually send your saddle in to get the new rigging on it and it will fix your dashboarding issue. Look up the Allison Rae (Ray) rigging and see if your saddle has this. If it does have this rigging I would suggest shortening your leathers. Your toes are dipping down if you have the Allison rigging and it's causing you to fall forward because your leathers are too long.
Again, and to agree with Classicpotatochip, SHORTEN THOSE STIRRUP LEATHERS!   |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| I'm not a fan of flex trees as I have heard of them warping when left in hot trailers etc (heck my tackroom gets hot in the middle of summer.
I'll have to try the shortened stirrups too....interesting.
Saddle shopping sucks. I'll just say that.
What works for you will depend on what fits your horse (#1 priority IMO)
Then it will depend on your build. Regardless of appropriate seat size someone who is 5'1 may not like the way a stirrup is hung as much as someone who is 5'10 or has a longer thigh than someone else who carries more height in their torso.
The best advice I can give is try try try. When I'm shopping I will literally walk around at a jackpot looking for someone who has the saddle I'm interested in and talk to them about it, what they like, don't like, can I set it on my horse later when we've both ran? Most people who have been in horses long enough know the pain and will help you out in my experience.
I like my triple creeks, but I am still getting forward a bit on my little horse, I will have to experiment with stirrup length, I had been riding them pretty long. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: Georgia | Dont get a double J, they threw me forward in the turns. I really like my Performance saddle company. Keeps me where I need to be. |
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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | I cannot ride with my stirrups long. I like a little bend in my knee and to be able to put my weight completely on my feet. I have mine where I can fit my fist easily between me and my saddle when I stand in my stirrups.
I love, love, love my old Tod Slone saddle. Super deep, comfortable, keeps my feet forward. I like to stay a smidge forward and low in my body, but back on my seat on my really hard runner, so I don't get jerked back when he comes out of a turn. This has been the best saddle for that that I've tried. However, I love that I can move pretty much any way I want to in it, but the deep seat keeps me very secure.
I even had a gal try to buy it a couple of weeks ago after she rode one of my horses in it. She wanted a package deal on the horse and saddle. I turned it down because they don't make my particular saddle any more. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I have this same issue and started riding cutting saddles years ago due to them sitting you in the exact position you're describing that you want to be in. I love the Jeff Smiths (those built on the cutting tree) and the Roohides. I have tried to ride a true barrel saddle since and it's a no go for me. I love how the saddles that are built and set up like a cutter sit you. Feet stay where they need to be and you can't get forward. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
Location: on the fine line between insanity and geniusness | The shorter stirrups is the truth. Watch cutting horses and their riders, you never see them in a bind or getting thrown forward and those horses are a whole lot different move than a barrel horse. They ride with their stirrups VERY short. I've always ridden short stirrups from growing up riding cow horses and riding around cutting horse people. It is a little hard to get used to for someone who hasn't ridden like that all their life, but it will teach you how to ride with your legs and let them HELP you sit down. Your groins will kill you for a few days, but it will teach you how to hold a horse between your knees. As far as a saddle, I love my two Double J's. I have a Pozzi and a Pro and won't ride anything else. The Pro seems to sit me down and back more, where the Pozzi sits me up over my horses. |
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Member
Posts: 23
| Yep I have the Allison rigging on the Bob Marshall. I am borrowing a Performance right now with a 15" seat. Everyone is telling me the seat is too big, but I'm actually loving the saddle. I noticed immediately that It's keeping my feet forward more than the Bob Marshall. I need the Saddle Fairy to just bring me the perfect saddle. I'm hearing so much about staying with the larger seat for better sit-back. Thank you all so much for the input. Keep it coming. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Herbie - 2017-03-29 8:37 AM I have this same issue and started riding cutting saddles years ago due to them sitting you in the exact position you're describing that you want to be in. I love the Jeff Smiths (those built on the cutting tree) and the Roohides. I have tried to ride a true barrel saddle since and it's a no go for me. I love how the saddles that are built and set up like a cutter sit you. Feet stay where they need to be and you can't get forward.
I have a roohide on order. The best way for me to describe how a Roo and also a Caldwell sit you is like you sit when bareback. You are "in" the saddle, not "on" it. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Hoot&Holler - 2017-03-29 8:59 AM Yep I have the Allison rigging on the Bob Marshall. I am borrowing a Performance right now with a 15" seat. Everyone is telling me the seat is too big, but I'm actually loving the saddle. I noticed immediately that It's keeping my feet forward more than the Bob Marshall. I need the Saddle Fairy to just bring me the perfect saddle. I'm hearing so much about staying with the larger seat for better sit-back. Thank you all so much for the input. Keep it coming.
Yep, I ride a bigger seat than what most do in a barrel saddle. I like having the room and feel like it puts me in a better position to stay balanced. I also ride my stirrups pretty short like the other poster suggested. |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| I am going to suggest a whole different track.
An English saddle and enough hours in it so that you really learn and develope your balance so that you can CONTROL your seat and legs. I learned to RIDE bareback and thought that I had a good seat and balance. When I decided that I wanted expand my showing to hunt seat classes I got myself a saddle and was surprised at how hard it was to really control my legs to keep them in proper position with only that spindly little stirrup leather. After many , many hours spent teaching myself to control my legs and seat I found out how profoundly it changed my control in a Western saddle.
In today's world of wanting things NOW, many do not have the patience to pay their dues and really LEARN real horsemanship. Then combine that with the speed and force turning a barrel and that lack of really learning skills and muscle memory show up in spades. Note that I certainly am not aiming this at people with physical challenges and do acknowledge that there are some poorly balanced saddles out there, lack of horsemanship and hours in the saddle are more likely the cause. if you do not have the muscle memory and the skill to ride with shorter stirrups you are more likely to get dashboarded. I would suggest running your foot all the way in to the stirrup rather than running with the balls of your feet on the stirrup. This was suggested to me by a reining trainer, another faster event requiring horsemanship and control. Try in and then try standing in your stirrups. It will cause you to stand UP where as standing on the balls of your feet (as we are all taught) makes you tip forward.
Zipping up my flamesuit now. |
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Expert
Posts: 1280
Location: Texas | My favorite is Martha Josey Ultimate, but I bought a Steinhoff saddle a few months ago & was really impressed with the seat I have in it. I have ridden out a couple of huge spooks in that thing and not once have I felt like I was going to come loose. I was pleasantly surprised how much I love that saddle. It has a much lower front that the MJ, so it took some adjusting. Both have forward hung stirrups. I shortened my stirrups last year to try to ride more balanced with my colt, but had to lower them again because I am old and my knees hurt like crazy. I think an ill fitting saddle can cause you balance problems as well as sore your horse. Make sure that your saddle fits your horse, does not roll, sits level, etc. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 899
Location: Idaho | I would suggest working on core strength and balance. My old trainer used to tell me that your back muscle is the biggest muscle in your body, and you need to learn to use it when it comes to sitting in your turns. Also your hips will help you sit deep in your saddle.
Saddle wise I love the CJ Record Breaker, Double J Lynn Mackenzie and then the Teskey barrel saddles. They have a nice deep pocket in their seats and are super comfy. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 206
Location: Downsouth | Have you checked out Martin's BTR? It has forward hung stirrups and a deeper seat. I ordered one in January, should be here by May. You and I are looking for the same results. I hope this saddle is the answer. |
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 Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Try shorter stirrups. You don't want to have them too long. You sure can't control your legs and seat with long stirrups. |
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| I've been searching for the perfect saddle for what seems like forever, here is my experience...
Caldwell - LOVE, I have the rocket tree. Mine has a semi-high rise which helps give it a deep pocket. It is SO BALANCED and really sits you down on the horse not on top of the horse. I agree with their opinion on placement, which I think contributes to the way it sits you.
Double J Lynn McKenzie - sat me in a more 'neutral' position, didn't force me to sit back but didn't pop me forward either. I really like the way they are rigged. Had better success with this saddle on more of a push style horse.
Bob Marshall - I bought mine used with the suede already smoothed out, which made it way less confining. I used it with a corrector pad that had all the front shims in for a downhill horse, worked great for what I needed - kept her comfortable and me not falling forward.
Merrill - This saddle has the exact seat that you described, really sits you on your pockets with your feet in front of you. I absolutely LOVED riding in it, HATED competing in it. I was running an extreme push style horse at the time, who was big and powerful - I would catch major air leaving every barrel. I would imagine it to be a different experience on more of a free runner.
Double J Pro - sits you down and back, but not to the extreme, like the Merrill - but more so than the Lynn McKenzie. I also had the Double J Charmayne Record Breaker - pretty sure these morphed into what is now the Pro because they fit very similiar to me.
Circle Y Kelly Kaminski Studded Croc w/Flex tree - has a higher rise, adjustable stirrups and nice pocket. Very important to get a larger seat than you would normally - it will have the opposite effect and shoot you forward if you don't.
Stoney w/5" cantle and med tree - very balanced and neutral position, rode this saddle for years - probably should have never sold it.
Black Rhino (About the Horse) - excellent fit for the horse with a balanced, neutral position for you.
Shiloh/Cecil Phillips Kim Thomas Edition w/forward hung stirrups - really, really comfortable and the forward hung stirrups made it easy to keep my feet in front but didn't force them there. Nice height to the pommel which I would expect to also give stability when running. I only used this on a horse that I had in training so never got to make a "run" in it. It didn't fit my open horse.
Shiloh Contender - my most recent purchase, since my Caldwell does not fit my colt yet. Really liking it so far but have not made any runs in it. I find it to be more of a neutral position, similiar to the way the Lynn sat but with a higher pommel and wider swells, it has a nice pocket to sit down in but doesn't force you there.
I agree with the others regarding the core strength factor and the shorter stirrups for balance. I am not tall but have longish legs and a short torso - have always been fit with an emphasis on my core but barre 3 (combo of pilates/yoga/ballet) made a very noticable difference in my balance and ability to stay with my horses and/or make adjustments in a run. IMO, the larger seat is up for discussion, saddles with a higher rise and a taller cantle, most definitely need to be bigger or they will do the opposite of what you want. If you find one that sits you almost perfect but maybe a tad big, think about adding bucking rolls for more security, although be careful adding them to a saddle with a high cantle or you could get the 'pinball' effect.
Also, possibly think about getting a used cutting saddle with a deep pocket as a daily rider - it will help re-train your body's muscle memory - not to mention they are so, so comfortable.
Side note: I could really tell a difference between handmade (caldwell, stoney, merrill, black rhino, shiloh) versus the others as far as consistency, *feel* and finishing.
I've owned others but left them off this list since they are hard to find.
Edited by wishingforsun 2017-03-29 6:16 PM
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | Hoot&Holler - 2017-03-29 9:59 AM
Yep I have the Allison rigging on the Bob Marshall. I am borrowing a Performance right now with a 15" seat. Everyone is telling me the seat is too big, but I'm actually loving the saddle. I noticed immediately that It's keeping my feet forward more than the Bob Marshall. I need the Saddle Fairy to just bring me the perfect saddle. I'm hearing so much about staying with the larger seat for better sit-back. Thank you all so much for the input. Keep it coming.
Just wanted to say I LOVE the pup in your avatar |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
| Caldwells are awesome I love my promax but I will say I have a Vernon purdy that fits all 5 of my horses which are all built differently and it sits u perfect and balanced and my horses all engage butt and elevate shoulders without me having to help them to do it- I will be purchasing another Vernon purdy asap |
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Location: OK | Check out Robbie Phillips, I rode Old Style Ammermans for years and liked them now I have a new Robbie Phillips and really like it. One thing to think about, if you are not long legged make sure that your fenders are not bunched up, I am 5' 3" and have had some of my fenders shortened so they could swing free. I did not like the Dbl J I do have a martin I won and it rides fine but is pretty heavy. My Martin is the BTR.
Edited by StillRiding 2017-03-30 11:23 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | Double J Pozzi tree! |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Hoot&Holler - 2017-03-29 8:07 AM Anybody have thoughts on the Circle Y Flex2 tree? Am I going to have the same issues with a Flex tree as I do with "dashboarding" in my Bob Marshall? (Love that term!)
Don't bother. Those trees suck. Not necessarily bad to ride in, but not good for the horse's back and all around cheaply made saddles. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| Look at how your sitting are you sitting back on your pckets rolling your hips or riding the front end. I try to ride the back end with very little weight to none in my stirrups unless I am stoppeng works for me. |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Just had another, thought. Check your saddle fit. If the gullet is too wide it will sit down in the front and tip you forward. It may not be a seat issue at all. |
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Best saddle to keep my feet forward and butt DOWN!