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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | The moment I've been waiting for has finally arrived. "Why Vaccines Work" in comic book form:
http://m.imgur.com/gallery/IwDF7 | |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
 
| I can already cite two glaring flaws in their argument.
The first concerns the reemergence of certain diseases that were almost non-existent in this country. This is most likely due the to influx of immigrants legal and non, coming from 3rd World countries where the standard of cleanliness and hygiene is not up to par with ours. Have have ever used a bathroom in Mexico? It is not uncommon to put ALL trash, including used toilet paper (ewwww) in the waste basket because they do not have good septic and sewers...at least not in the border towns, and those folks bring those habits from a lifetime and may not wash their hands with regularity. I have no idea of the habits of those coming in from the war torn middle East or rural Africa. Now to be clear, I am NOT saying that all people from those countries are unsanitary or that their cities do not have better facilities, but the fact is the third World countries are exactly that because they are not as developed as over here, for a large part of the population. I had refused an DPT shot instead of a straight Tetanus shot in the ER. The PA closed the door and quietly told me that there wasn't a big risk, that the only "wild" Tetanus found in this country was in such individuals from said third World countries. And, by the way, why does the hospital only carry a DPT combo and not just the Tetanus???
The second glaring flaw is the argument they used about needing to be revaccinated. The example they used was the Flu, which most everybody knows by now has many different strains and the CDC just guesses at which one or two will be the strain/s going 'round for that season. That has ZERO to do with having to revaccinate for say Tetanus (which used to be a yearly thing, now they say 7 to 10 years), chickenpox, or the multitude of diseases we now vaccinate our animals and children for.
I am on the fence about many of the vaccines we now FORCE people to give to their children an animals. I first started getting suspicious about vaccines when my sister told me of a reaction her son had less than a week after one of his MMR shots (he is now nearly 40, so this was long before the days of Andrew Wakefield and the Jenny McCarthy era. He changed from a normal, happy baby to a sulking, colicky unhappy child almost over night, but outside the mere 72 hours allowed to call it a reaction to the vaccine. He to this day, has emotional and developmental issues. I have Fibromyalgia and some think that it may be attributed to vaccines we all got as children DECADES ago, not just he 72 hour window designated as a possible reaction....who got to designate that as a window anyhow? Then there was my dog who suffered from Hemolytic Auto Immune Anemia. At the time, with no other cause to be found, my small animal vet suggested that it could be a reaction to the lifetime of vaccines recommended for dogs. He has since allowed me to stretch out the time between vaccinations without conflict, indeed by his recommendation, for ALL my dogs.
I have a friend who sold for Fort Dodge and she poo-poohed my reluctance to give all the vaccines recommended for my dogs other animals. She poo-poohed and got upset when my local horse vet preferred not to use Fort Dodge's vaccines because the adjuvant caused more frequent and severe reactions in his clients', as well as his own animals. She is now one of the most rabid antivaxxers I know, and does her own research and pulls her arguments from the package inserts that come with the drugs.....the one the doctors see, not the ones passed on to the clients. She can pull out things like how we are told to vaccinate out pregnant mares before the foal is born (to pass on the immunity) but ZERO research (according to her) has been done on the safety and efficacy on PREGNANT mares.
We in fact, do NOT have ALL the scientific data on how vaccines may negatively affect people over a lifetime. You and I Doc, are the guinea pig generation, the first to receive a battery of childhood vaccinations, and we are not done. Who knows how those vaccinations may have affected our health over the years? Look at the rise in Cancers, heart disease, Diabetes, Hypertension, Fibromyalgia, the veritable army of folks on antidepressants. There is no telling at this point if any of those increases could be connected to vaccines in one way or another.
Me? I am glad that I grew up when I got Mumps, Chicken Pox etc, instead of the vaccines. I will refuse to get Flu shots, Shingles Vax (already had Shingles) and whatever other late in life vaccines they are trying to push on us. I know several, well educated (in medical field) folks who agree and have had several tell me they almost DIED from the Pneumonia vax. I will exercise my right to choose unless they can give a CONVINCING argument to do otherwise.
The sanest advice I have heard about vaccines comes from another vet. Vaccinate for what is deadly or commonly crippling and debilitating and skip the rest. I survived Mumps, measles, Chicken Pox with no lingering effects except a stronger immunity against said disease than a vax can give me. Likewise the horses I had a kid that never got a flu or strangles shot. I personally want to vaccinate my horses for tetanus and Encephalitis (multiple), but it is almost impossible to find single strain vaccines. That's it...well maybe Rabies but that is a VERY reactive vax that can be every hard on a horse (or dog, but the Law requires it). I keep my eyes and ears open for outbreaks of things like West Nile and would reconsider if it looked like my horses actually had a chance to become infected.
All I can say is I am really glad that I don't have a kid. I would be facing fight to at the very least spread the vaccinations over a more reasonable time span rather than overwhelm their tiny little bodies with what is it now, 70 some childhood vaccinations and boosters?
I really like the old saying "Everything in moderation". | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I don't know the American vaccines, but I would love if Canada would only carry the DTaP vaccine in emergencies.
In central Alberta has been classified as a whooping cough outbreak since September, the adults are the known carrier and are transmitting it to the unprotected children. Whooping cough can cause death and severe respiratory issues for life. We have started offering the vaccine to all pregnant women as the science shows if vaccinated after 26 weeks the antibioties from the mother will transfer through to the placenta to give the unborn child immunity up to the age of 2 months.
The southern part of the province has a mumps outbreak due to a hockey team visiting the province.
The northern part of the province has a measles outbreak due to a passenger on a plane from another country.
All diseases are one plane ride, one train ride, and one bus ride away from affecting your family.
As for behavioural issues caused by the vaccines. There is actually more of a link to oxytocin given during delivery then th vaccine and you never hear anyone speak of that. I read a research article over 10 years ago that showed if oxytocin was injected into the brai the autistic individual behaved normal till it wore off.
There is also a link between gluten and autism, I actually know a family who went gluten free and their child became normal.
I could go on and on but don't have time. | |
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | When I was growing up we got our immune systems going as soon as our mothers put us down. From siblings, neighbors and playing in the dirt. Unfortunately for many that is no longer true. I totally agree that vaccines need research (shame funding is being cut off) and improvement, but now, for most, they are necessary. For the one child who may have had an adverse reaction and the other who may be able to blame a problem on a vaccine, 1,000 lives were saved worldwide by vaccinations. Do you remember Polio? Guess why not? Because a vaccine eliminated it in this country.
When you look at this issue as a parent you should look at it as playing the odds with you and your neighbor's children's lives in the balance. What are you willing to bet? Have you asked your friends and neighbors and your child's classmates parents if they approve of your bet
This is one time I know of a use for charter schools, in California there has been a big increase in sick children at charters because like minded, non-vac parents have grouped together.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| I have a bad reaction to the tetanus shot, so does my cousin. But we both lived through it. Just a crazy fever and vomiting. Chances are good we would not live through tetanus. My mother did not get me vaccinated for mumps. Guess what I got? TWICE! And guess what is caused? I am partially deaf in my left ear. For other people it can cause sterility. And it hurts like an SOB. Why risk it?
I play around with ancestry.com a lot and am a big history buff. I read a lot of old death certificates and state reports that were provided to the state back in the 1800s and early 1900s. Many many reports of dead babies and children that died from diseases that we are now capable of preventing.
I do not understand the anti vax movement at all. Some of these people do not even think Jonas Salk existed and call Polio a hoax.
Vaccinations save far more people than they harm. I will stick with the science and history. The numbers don't lie. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | I have a hard time believing that, in this day and age, the medical community can't figure out how to detect autism and if there is a risk for an individual child taking the MMR vaccine. Of course, they would have to first admit that there is a connection.
They should at least make the separate vaccines available, I know there is a demand for it.
I understand that the companies have done studies where thousands of children show no ill effects so they conclude that the vacs don't cause autism. But, the information available to the casual internet user is pretty compelling. It's seems hard to deny that it DOES effect SOME kids. The manufacturers seem to be ignoring the evidence, though and that makes me not trust them.
The theory l've read that made the most sense to me was that, yes, these kids were most likely going to have autism anyway. But, the MMR vaccine caused an earlier onset and more severe case of it. There are just too many parents whose kids developed autism immediately after receiving this vaccine.
I believe in vaccines. Just don't want to do them all at the same time. It's more expemsive, but I'd rather spread them out to make it safer. It just seemed wrong to do something I knew was likely to make my kid sick. I just can't understand why they won't make separate vacs available when I ask for them.
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Nita - 2017-04-19 11:26 PM
I have a hard time believing that, in this day and age, the medical community can't figure out how to detect autism and if there is a risk for an individual child taking the MMR vaccine. Of course, they would have to first admit that there is a connection.
They should at least make the separate vaccines available, I know there is a demand for it.
I understand that the companies have done studies where thousands of children show no ill effects so they conclude that the vacs don't cause autism. But, the information available to the casual internet user is pretty compelling. It's seems hard to deny that it DOES effect SOME kids. The manufacturers seem to be ignoring the evidence, though and that makes me not trust them.
The theory l've read that made the most sense to me was that, yes, these kids were most likely going to have autism anyway. But, the MMR vaccine caused an earlier onset and more severe case of it. There are just too many parents whose kids developed autism immediately after receiving this vaccine.
I believe in vaccines. Just don't want to do them all at the same time. It's more expemsive, but I'd rather spread them out to make it safer. It just seemed wrong to do something I knew was likely to make my kid sick. I just can't understand why they won't make separate vacs available when I ask for them.
Agreed  | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Vickie - 2017-04-19 10:47 PM When I was growing up we got our immune systems going as soon as our mothers put us down. From siblings, neighbors and playing in the dirt. Unfortunately for many that is no longer true. I totally agree that vaccines need research (shame funding is being cut off) and improvement, but now, for most, they are necessary. For the one child who may have had an adverse reaction and the other who may be able to blame a problem on a vaccine, 1,000 lives were saved worldwide by vaccinations. Do you remember Polio? Guess why not? Because a vaccine eliminated it in this country. When you look at this issue as a parent you should look at it as playing the odds with you and your neighbor's children's lives in the balance. What are you willing to bet? Have you asked your friends and neighbors and your child's classmates parents if they approve of your bet This is one time I know of a use for charter schools, in California there has been a big increase in sick children at charters because like minded, non-vac parents have grouped together.
I can only speak for myself and the odds I played were whether I could live with the knowledge that I willingly and voluntarily gave my children a shot I knew could severely damage them or not give them the shot and hope they were never exposed. My situation was different than a general fear of vaccines. This was almost 30 years ago, at the age of 2 my daughter started having seizures. The DPT vaccine was very dangerous for children with seizures and their siblings, it could cause severe, dibiltating seizures. With my pediatrician's consent, I did not give it. The DPT they give today is a much safer form, much different than what was offered back then. While we do have a responsibility to society I felt my first responsibility was the well being of my children. My pregnant daughter did get the DPT vaccine before she left the hospital but I told them about the seizures her sister used to have. You know what her dr said? "That was a good decision, the vacs back then were not as safe as they are today". There are certain children who have conditions that predispose them to severe reactions to vaccines. Although many schools fought me, we moved a lot, because of the missing DPT vac., the doctors always gave me a note excusing them from taking it. I do feel lucky that they never were exposed to whooping cough. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | rodeoveteran - 2017-04-19 6:02 PM
I can already cite two glaring flaws in their argument.
The first concerns the reemergence of certain diseases that were almost non-existent in this country. This is most likely due the to influx of immigrants legal and non, coming from 3rd World countries where the standard of cleanliness and hygiene is not up to par with ours. Have have ever used a bathroom in Mexico? It is not uncommon to put ALL trash, including used toilet paper (ewwww) in the waste basket because they do not have good septic and sewers...at least not in the border towns, and those folks bring those habits from a lifetime and may not wash their hands with regularity. I have no idea of the habits of those coming in from the war torn middle East or rural Africa. Now to be clear, I am NOT saying that all people from those countries are unsanitary or that their cities do not have better facilities, but the fact is the third World countries are exactly that because they are not as developed as over here, for a large part of the population. I had refused an DPT shot instead of a straight Tetanus shot in the ER. The PA closed the door and quietly told me that there wasn't a big risk, that the only "wild" Tetanus found in this country was in such individuals from said third World countries. And, by the way, why does the hospital only carry a DPT combo and not just the Tetanus???
The second glaring flaw is the argument they used about needing to be revaccinated. The example they used was the Flu, which most everybody knows by now has many different strains and the CDC just guesses at which one or two will be the strain/s going 'round for that season. That has ZERO to do with having to revaccinate for say Tetanus (which used to be a yearly thing, now they say 7 to 10 years), chickenpox, or the multitude of diseases we now vaccinate our animals and children for.
I am on the fence about many of the vaccines we now FORCE people to give to their children an animals. I first started getting suspicious about vaccines when my sister told me of a reaction her son had less than a week after one of his MMR shots (he is now nearly 40, so this was long before the days of Andrew Wakefield and the Jenny McCarthy era. He changed from a normal, happy baby to a sulking, colicky unhappy child almost over night, but outside the mere 72 hours allowed to call it a reaction to the vaccine. He to this day, has emotional and developmental issues. I have Fibromyalgia and some think that it may be attributed to vaccines we all got as children DECADES ago, not just he 72 hour window designated as a possible reaction....who got to designate that as a window anyhow? Then there was my dog who suffered from Hemolytic Auto Immune Anemia. At the time, with no other cause to be found, my small animal vet suggested that it could be a reaction to the lifetime of vaccines recommended for dogs. He has since allowed me to stretch out the time between vaccinations without conflict, indeed by his recommendation, for ALL my dogs.
I have a friend who sold for Fort Dodge and she poo-poohed my reluctance to give all the vaccines recommended for my dogs other animals. She poo-poohed and got upset when my local horse vet preferred not to use Fort Dodge's vaccines because the adjuvant caused more frequent and severe reactions in his clients', as well as his own animals. She is now one of the most rabid antivaxxers I know, and does her own research and pulls her arguments from the package inserts that come with the drugs.....the one the doctors see, not the ones passed on to the clients. She can pull out things like how we are told to vaccinate out pregnant mares before the foal is born (to pass on the immunity) but ZERO research (according to her) has been done on the safety and efficacy on PREGNANT mares.
We in fact, do NOT have ALL the scientific data on how vaccines may negatively affect people over a lifetime. You and I Doc, are the guinea pig generation, the first to receive a battery of childhood vaccinations, and we are not done. Who knows how those vaccinations may have affected our health over the years? Look at the rise in Cancers, heart disease, Diabetes, Hypertension, Fibromyalgia, the veritable army of folks on antidepressants. There is no telling at this point if any of those increases could be connected to vaccines in one way or another.
Me? I am glad that I grew up when I got Mumps, Chicken Pox etc, instead of the vaccines. I will refuse to get Flu shots, Shingles Vax (already had Shingles) and whatever other late in life vaccines they are trying to push on us. I know several, well educated (in medical field) folks who agree and have had several tell me they almost DIED from the Pneumonia vax. I will exercise my right to choose unless they can give a CONVINCING argument to do otherwise.
The sanest advice I have heard about vaccines comes from another vet. Vaccinate for what is deadly or commonly crippling and debilitating and skip the rest. I survived Mumps, measles, Chicken Pox with no lingering effects except a stronger immunity against said disease than a vax can give me. Likewise the horses I had a kid that never got a flu or strangles shot. I personally want to vaccinate my horses for tetanus and Encephalitis (multiple), but it is almost impossible to find single strain vaccines. That's it...well maybe Rabies but that is a VERY reactive vax that can be every hard on a horse (or dog, but the Law requires it). I keep my eyes and ears open for outbreaks of things like West Nile and would reconsider if it looked like my horses actually had a chance to become infected.
All I can say is I am really glad that I don't have a kid. I would be facing fight to at the very least spread the vaccinations over a more reasonable time span rather than overwhelm their tiny little bodies with what is it now, 70 some childhood vaccinations and boosters?
I really like the old saying "Everything in moderation".
Good Christ. It's a comic book, not a scientific treatise.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Nita - 2017-04-19 11:26 PM
I have a hard time believing that, in this day and age, the medical community can't figure out how to detect autism and if there is a risk for an individual child taking the MMR vaccine. Of course, they would have to first admit that there is a connection.
They should at least make the separate vaccines available, I know there is a demand for it.
I understand that the companies have done studies where thousands of children show no ill effects so they conclude that the vacs don't cause autism. But, the information available to the casual internet user is pretty compelling. It's seems hard to deny that it DOES effect SOME kids. The manufacturers seem to be ignoring the evidence, though and that makes me not trust them.
The theory l've read that made the most sense to me was that, yes, these kids were most likely going to have autism anyway. But, the MMR vaccine caused an earlier onset and more severe case of it. There are just too many parents whose kids developed autism immediately after receiving this vaccine.
I believe in vaccines. Just don't want to do them all at the same time. It's more expemsive, but I'd rather spread them out to make it safer. It just seemed wrong to do something I knew was likely to make my kid sick. I just can't understand why they won't make separate vacs available when I ask for them.
The key phrase here is: "the information available to the casual internet user......."
Therein lies the problem with the internet. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings (1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child.
Edited by IRunOnFaith 2017-04-20 9:10 AM
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 cdc-vax-schedule-2016_mini.jpg (57KB - 185 downloads)
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| Vickie - 2017-04-19 8:47 PM
When I was growing up we got our immune systems going as soon as our mothers put us down. From siblings, neighbors and playing in the dirt. Unfortunately for many that is no longer true. I totally agree that vaccines need research (shame funding is being cut off) and improvement, but now, for most, they are necessary. For the one child who may have had an adverse reaction and the other who may be able to blame a problem on a vaccine, 1,000 lives were saved worldwide by vaccinations. Do you remember Polio? Guess why not? Because a vaccine eliminated it in this country.
When you look at this issue as a parent you should look at it as playing the odds with you and your neighbor's children's lives in the balance. What are you willing to bet? Have you asked your friends and neighbors and your child's classmates parents if they approve of your bet
This is one time I know of a use for charter schools, in California there has been a big increase in sick children at charters because like minded, non-vac parents have grouped together.
I SOOOO agree with this!! I was on the " Rodeo" road from birth ( Literally) and I got to play in the dirt, drink from random hoses, play under the grand stands, share soda pop with a million other kids, go to carnivals, etc.. Knock on wood, I NEVER EVER EVER get sick. Not so much as a runny nose while everyone esle around me goes down hill fast. LOl My vet says the same thing as above, vaccinate for what your horse is likely to become exposed to. Why is it that humans get vaccinated as children but horses need it every year????? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM
Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. " I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child.
Who says they are "immune debilitating"? How so? Explain how vaccinations are "debilitating" to the immune system.
On the contrary, they amplify the immune system. That's how they work. You folks need to stop listening to Jenny McCarthy. | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | Bear - 2017-04-20 11:03 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child. Who says they are "immune debilitating"? How so? Explain how vaccinations are "debilitating" to the immune system. On the contrary, they amplify the immune system. That's how they work. You folks need to stop listening to Jenny McCarthy.
you are obviously a shill for big pharma | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | 1DSoon - 2017-04-20 11:40 AM
Bear - 2017-04-20 11:03 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child. Who says they are "immune debilitating"? How so? Explain how vaccinations are "debilitating" to the immune system. On the contrary, they amplify the immune system. That's how they work. You folks need to stop listening to Jenny McCarthy.
I wish. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM
Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. " I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child.
Good lord, that list is insane! I was always the mom who wouldn't get the vaccines until they set a suspension date at school. My daughter would get high temperatures a day or so after her vaccines, not just 100 degrees but 104. I would call the doctor in a panic at night when they came on, he would tell me to wipe her down with a tepid wash cloth and give her tylenol and by the next morning when he opened his office, she would have no fever. He couldn't explain it, then when she was 6 months old she had a seizure, thankfully not a grand mal, but scarey none the less and had a couple a year thereafter, some were grand mal. Never found out why. This lead me to really space out her vaccines. The doctor agreed with me. I did the same for my son and he never had any problems. I don't know if the vaccines had anything to do with her fevers, but they didn't start until she started her vaccines at 2 months. My kids were vaccinated but only the bare minimum. They were outdoor ranch kids and were always healthier than their classmates. I honestly don't know who to believe. It's hard to trust pharmacy companies, but there is no question the polio and small pox vaccines worked for most people.
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | GLP - 2017-04-20 12:12 PM
IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM
Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. " I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child.
Good lord, that list is insane! I was always the mom who wouldn't get the vaccines until they set a suspension date at school. My daughter would get high temperatures a day or so after her vaccines, not just 100 degrees but 104. I would call the doctor in a panic at night when they came on, he would tell me to wipe her down with a tepid wash cloth and give her tylenol and by the next morning when he opened his office, she would have no fever. He couldn't explain it, then when she was 6 months old she had a seizure, thankfully not a grand mal, but scarey none the less and had a couple a year thereafter, some were grand mal. Never found out why. This lead me to really space out her vaccines. The doctor agreed with me. I did the same for my son and he never had any problems. I don't know if the vaccines had anything to do with her fevers, but they didn't start until she started her vaccines at 2 months. My kids were vaccinated but only the bare minimum. They were outdoor ranch kids and were always healthier than their classmates. I honestly don't know who to believe. It's hard to trust pharmacy companies, but there is no question the polio and small pox vaccines worked for most people.
My baby just had a seizure Monday. Very scary. It had nothing to do with vaccines, epilepsy, or any such thing. It was grand mal or tonic/clonic as they call them now. It lasted about 45 seconds.
The cause was . . . a rapid increase in fever. She has strep. If a baby has a temperature that climbs rapidly for pretty much any reason, they can experience these. Happen in about 4% of kids I guess. They are called febrile seizures and are most common in children between 6 months and 5 years of age.
It is is not uncommon for vaccines to cause a fever. I guess in children, while rare, it is not unknown for fevers to cause seizures. Febrile seizures are supposed to have no nasty long term effects I have been told (thank god), but we will be watching our little girl in future any time she gets sick to manage the fever more appropriately.
My mother who is a nurse says a tepid water bath is one of the BEST and quickest ways to get a temperature down so you were told correctly. I am surprised though that they did explain about febrile seizures to you as that is what it sounds like she had.
I do know certain vaccines can cause major issues if you have certain genes. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Big Pharma has done some rotten things and people have been ripped off by big pharma at times, no doubt about it. On the other hand, were it not for big pharma, some of us wouldn't be alive. That's just a fact. I have news for you folks. This is true of practically all large corporations in the U.S. That same "greed factor" that has resulted in price gouging and rip offs is also responsible for excellence. Let that sink in for a while. Hopefully, vigilance, free market capitalism, and free speech all help to insure that the good far outweighs the bad. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| oija - 2017-04-20 12:18 PM
GLP - 2017-04-20 12:12 PM
IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM
Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. " I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child.
Good lord, that list is insane! I was always the mom who wouldn't get the vaccines until they set a suspension date at school. My daughter would get high temperatures a day or so after her vaccines, not just 100 degrees but 104. I would call the doctor in a panic at night when they came on, he would tell me to wipe her down with a tepid wash cloth and give her tylenol and by the next morning when he opened his office, she would have no fever. He couldn't explain it, then when she was 6 months old she had a seizure, thankfully not a grand mal, but scarey none the less and had a couple a year thereafter, some were grand mal. Never found out why. This lead me to really space out her vaccines. The doctor agreed with me. I did the same for my son and he never had any problems. I don't know if the vaccines had anything to do with her fevers, but they didn't start until she started her vaccines at 2 months. My kids were vaccinated but only the bare minimum. They were outdoor ranch kids and were always healthier than their classmates. I honestly don't know who to believe. It's hard to trust pharmacy companies, but there is no question the polio and small pox vaccines worked for most people.
My baby just had a seizure Monday. Very scary. It had nothing to do with vaccines, epilepsy, or any such thing. It was grand mal or tonic/clonic as they call them now. It lasted about 45 seconds.
The cause was . . . a rapid increase in fever. She has strep. If a baby has a temperature that climbs rapidly for pretty much any reason, they can experience these. Happen in about 4% of kids I guess. They are called febrile seizures and are most common in children between 6 months and 5 years of age.
It is is not uncommon for vaccines to cause a fever. I guess in children, while rare, it is not unknown for fevers to cause seizures. Febrile seizures are supposed to have no nasty long term effects I have been told (thank god ), but we will be watching our little girl in future any time she gets sick to manage the fever more appropriately.
My mother who is a nurse says a tepid water bath is one of the BEST and quickest ways to get a temperature down so you were told correctly. I am surprised though that they did explain about febrile seizures to you as that is what it sounds like she had.
I do know certain vaccines can cause major issues if you have certain genes.
She didn't have a fever before or after her seizure. It was probably several days after the vaccinations and high fever. Hers were never connected to a fever. We went to 3 diffferent neuro doctors, one in Houston. She had several EEG's over a couple of years. When they put her on anti seizure meds, she actually increased her seizure episodes and the intensity was more also. She passed every neuro test they gave her with flying colors. This is a kid who talked complete sentences at a very early age and walked early, too. None of the doctors had a clue why she was having them. Taking her off seizure meds helped. She actually out grew them. She is 30 and hasn't had one since she was 24.
This was back in 1986 when they started and the doctors told me we would likely never know what caused them. It was strange because they were only a couple times a year and gradually just stopped. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | GLP - 2017-04-20 12:28 PM
oija - 2017-04-20 12:18 PM
GLP - 2017-04-20 12:12 PM
IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM
Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. " I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child.
Good lord, that list is insane! I was always the mom who wouldn't get the vaccines until they set a suspension date at school. My daughter would get high temperatures a day or so after her vaccines, not just 100 degrees but 104. I would call the doctor in a panic at night when they came on, he would tell me to wipe her down with a tepid wash cloth and give her tylenol and by the next morning when he opened his office, she would have no fever. He couldn't explain it, then when she was 6 months old she had a seizure, thankfully not a grand mal, but scarey none the less and had a couple a year thereafter, some were grand mal. Never found out why. This lead me to really space out her vaccines. The doctor agreed with me. I did the same for my son and he never had any problems. I don't know if the vaccines had anything to do with her fevers, but they didn't start until she started her vaccines at 2 months. My kids were vaccinated but only the bare minimum. They were outdoor ranch kids and were always healthier than their classmates. I honestly don't know who to believe. It's hard to trust pharmacy companies, but there is no question the polio and small pox vaccines worked for most people.
My baby just had a seizure Monday. Very scary. It had nothing to do with vaccines, epilepsy, or any such thing. It was grand mal or tonic/clonic as they call them now. It lasted about 45 seconds.
The cause was . . . a rapid increase in fever. She has strep. If a baby has a temperature that climbs rapidly for pretty much any reason, they can experience these. Happen in about 4% of kids I guess. They are called febrile seizures and are most common in children between 6 months and 5 years of age.
It is is not uncommon for vaccines to cause a fever. I guess in children, while rare, it is not unknown for fevers to cause seizures. Febrile seizures are supposed to have no nasty long term effects I have been told (thank god ), but we will be watching our little girl in future any time she gets sick to manage the fever more appropriately.
My mother who is a nurse says a tepid water bath is one of the BEST and quickest ways to get a temperature down so you were told correctly. I am surprised though that they did explain about febrile seizures to you as that is what it sounds like she had.
I do know certain vaccines can cause major issues if you have certain genes.
She didn't have a fever before or after her seizure. It was probably several days after the vaccinations and high fever. Hers were never connected to a fever. We went to 3 diffferent neuro doctors, one in Houston. She had several EEG's over a couple of years. When they put her on anti seizure meds, she actually increased her seizure episodes and the intensity was more also. She passed every neuro test they gave her with flying colors. This is a kid who talked complete sentences at a very early age and walked early, too. None of the doctors had a clue why she was having them. Taking her off seizure meds helped. She actually out grew them. She is 30 and hasn't had one since she was 24.
This was back in 1986 when they started and the doctors told me we would likely never know what caused them. It was strange because they were only a couple times a year and gradually just stopped.
Ah I misread your sequence of events. That is very scary but also possible. Thankfully my daughter has never had any seizures after her vaccines. The seizure she had Monday was plenty scary though. They tested her glucose and heart rate. They haven't called for any more tests yet as it can be clearly traced to the fever. If she has more, it may be necessary though. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| oija - 2017-04-20 12:37 PM
GLP - 2017-04-20 12:28 PM
oija - 2017-04-20 12:18 PM
GLP - 2017-04-20 12:12 PM
IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM
Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. " I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child.
Good lord, that list is insane! I was always the mom who wouldn't get the vaccines until they set a suspension date at school. My daughter would get high temperatures a day or so after her vaccines, not just 100 degrees but 104. I would call the doctor in a panic at night when they came on, he would tell me to wipe her down with a tepid wash cloth and give her tylenol and by the next morning when he opened his office, she would have no fever. He couldn't explain it, then when she was 6 months old she had a seizure, thankfully not a grand mal, but scarey none the less and had a couple a year thereafter, some were grand mal. Never found out why. This lead me to really space out her vaccines. The doctor agreed with me. I did the same for my son and he never had any problems. I don't know if the vaccines had anything to do with her fevers, but they didn't start until she started her vaccines at 2 months. My kids were vaccinated but only the bare minimum. They were outdoor ranch kids and were always healthier than their classmates. I honestly don't know who to believe. It's hard to trust pharmacy companies, but there is no question the polio and small pox vaccines worked for most people.
My baby just had a seizure Monday. Very scary. It had nothing to do with vaccines, epilepsy, or any such thing. It was grand mal or tonic/clonic as they call them now. It lasted about 45 seconds.
The cause was . . . a rapid increase in fever. She has strep. If a baby has a temperature that climbs rapidly for pretty much any reason, they can experience these. Happen in about 4% of kids I guess. They are called febrile seizures and are most common in children between 6 months and 5 years of age.
It is is not uncommon for vaccines to cause a fever. I guess in children, while rare, it is not unknown for fevers to cause seizures. Febrile seizures are supposed to have no nasty long term effects I have been told (thank god ), but we will be watching our little girl in future any time she gets sick to manage the fever more appropriately.
My mother who is a nurse says a tepid water bath is one of the BEST and quickest ways to get a temperature down so you were told correctly. I am surprised though that they did explain about febrile seizures to you as that is what it sounds like she had.
I do know certain vaccines can cause major issues if you have certain genes.
She didn't have a fever before or after her seizure. It was probably several days after the vaccinations and high fever. Hers were never connected to a fever. We went to 3 diffferent neuro doctors, one in Houston. She had several EEG's over a couple of years. When they put her on anti seizure meds, she actually increased her seizure episodes and the intensity was more also. She passed every neuro test they gave her with flying colors. This is a kid who talked complete sentences at a very early age and walked early, too. None of the doctors had a clue why she was having them. Taking her off seizure meds helped. She actually out grew them. She is 30 and hasn't had one since she was 24.
This was back in 1986 when they started and the doctors told me we would likely never know what caused them. It was strange because they were only a couple times a year and gradually just stopped.
Ah I misread your sequence of events. That is very scary but also possible. Thankfully my daughter has never had any seizures after her vaccines. The seizure she had Monday was plenty scary though. They tested her glucose and heart rate. They haven't called for any more tests yet as it can be clearly traced to the fever. If she has more, it may be necessary though.
Lol, it was me not sequencing my answer very well. I do that a lot posting and talking. I hope your little girl is doing better. That is the most helpless feeling in the world to watch your baby seize. My daughter usually just seem to faint and stiffen, but she had some that were terrifying. But no matter the severity, she would always be really tired afterwards and about 10 or minutes after the seizure she would go into a deep sleep. I hope that that is the only one she ever has. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Bear - 2017-04-20 10:03 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child. Who says they are "immune debilitating"? How so? Explain how vaccinations are "debilitating" to the immune system. On the contrary, they amplify the immune system. That's how they work. You folks need to stop listening to Jenny McCarthy.
I don't know who Jenny McCarthy is. I don't base my opinion on others. As I said, If after researching via the CDC website I feel a vaccine should not be given to my child, I do not have it administered. That is my right, my choice, as it is yours. My belief in why I don't get certain vaccines at certan times is also my choice and my right.
Immune Debilitating. Anything foreign your body injests, or in this case get injected into it, immedietly triggers a response by your body. Food. Germs. A disease. A strain of Flu. Your body reacts.
If your body detects a disease or sickness it forms antibodies to attach to said sickness/disease to kind of "tag" it in a way telling the white blood cells what to attack. Boom. Your immune system reacts. Your immune ssytem is thus weakend because it has had to "fight off" said sickness, disease, flue strain, etc. Immune debilitating.
Please explain how they "amplify" the immune system? (Trying to have a nice debate Bear, not being nasty at all. Very curious why you believe they amplify an immune system.)
Wouldn't your immune system just recognise the foreign matter the next time it entered your system? Your body may "learn" how to fight an infection a bit better, but to me your immune system is only "amplified" by say: Vitamin C, or other immune "Boosting" natural vitamins or herbs. I also believe that medicine works better on my child when she is sick simply because her immune system is so strong and isn't used to traditional forms of medicine. Antibiotics have there place. As do Vaccines. But I don't believe in attacking a baby's immune system with so vaccines at such a young age. I would rather my child's immune system get stronger before I attack it with a vaccine. Just my personal preference. No one is wrong if they follow the schedule in my eyes. Mom knows Best, right?  | |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | GLP - 2017-04-20 12:12 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child. Good lord, that list is insane! I was always the mom who wouldn't get the vaccines until they set a suspension date at school. My daughter would get high temperatures a day or so after her vaccines, not just 100 degrees but 104. I would call the doctor in a panic at night when they came on, he would tell me to wipe her down with a tepid wash cloth and give her tylenol and by the next morning when he opened his office, she would have no fever. He couldn't explain it, then when she was 6 months old she had a seizure, thankfully not a grand mal, but scarey none the less and had a couple a year thereafter, some were grand mal. Never found out why. This lead me to really space out her vaccines. The doctor agreed with me. I did the same for my son and he never had any problems. I don't know if the vaccines had anything to do with her fevers, but they didn't start until she started her vaccines at 2 months. My kids were vaccinated but only the bare minimum. They were outdoor ranch kids and were always healthier than their classmates. I honestly don't know who to believe. It's hard to trust pharmacy companies, but there is no question the polio and small pox vaccines worked for most people.
I believe that vaccines have their place. But I don't believe in the schedule most doctors are pushing.
While looking for a doctor for my little one after she was born, I was told by three different doctors that they refused to see my child.
The first ask me what hospital she was born at and I replied that she was born at home. The lady got very quiet and replied: "We don't really have an opening for people like you..." And hung up on me. I cried. 2 days post-aprtum I'm sure it was horomones (Or lack there of) but It really made me feel like a bad Mum.
The second scheduled me for an appointment, even after hearing she was born at home, and when I asked her if they were comfortable with not following the recomended schedule she also got very quiet and said: "Ma'am, either you follow the schedule to a 'T' or we can't help you..." I canceled the appointment...
The third laughed at me when I asked about changing the schedule or starting the vaccines later. She laughed and then got quiet and said: "Oh, you're serious?" I hung up on her...
I was very fortunate to find my pediatrician. She accepts no insurance and is cash pay only. She takes maybe 20 newborns a year to see through the age of 18. She's refered to as the Hippie Doctor in town. I get laughed at by people for taking her to a "quack". But I truly believe that she has my child's best interest at heart. She isn't afraid to tell me non biased consequences of herbal or hollistic remedies as well as traditional medicine side effects. She is by far the biggest blessing I could have found.
Texas allows you to exempt yourself or child from all vaccines for any reason. Her first Daycare tried to tell me that I couldn't bring her because she was contagious. People there were truly scared of her. But If your child received the vaccine, wouldn't my child be the only one "sick" if she didn't get a vaccine? I mean, vaccines are "preventative" according to your doctor correct? lol sorry, just being sarcastic now. Either way, to each their own. No need to judge other moms for believing different things. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 4:22 PM
GLP - 2017-04-20 12:12 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child. Good lord, that list is insane! I was always the mom who wouldn't get the vaccines until they set a suspension date at school. My daughter would get high temperatures a day or so after her vaccines, not just 100 degrees but 104. I would call the doctor in a panic at night when they came on, he would tell me to wipe her down with a tepid wash cloth and give her tylenol and by the next morning when he opened his office, she would have no fever. He couldn't explain it, then when she was 6 months old she had a seizure, thankfully not a grand mal, but scarey none the less and had a couple a year thereafter, some were grand mal. Never found out why. This lead me to really space out her vaccines. The doctor agreed with me. I did the same for my son and he never had any problems. I don't know if the vaccines had anything to do with her fevers, but they didn't start until she started her vaccines at 2 months. My kids were vaccinated but only the bare minimum. They were outdoor ranch kids and were always healthier than their classmates. I honestly don't know who to believe. It's hard to trust pharmacy companies, but there is no question the polio and small pox vaccines worked for most people.
While looking for a doctor for my little one after she was born, I was told by three different doctors that they refused to see my child.
The first ask me what hospital she was born at and I replied that she was born at home. The lady got very quiet and replied: "We don't really have an opening for people like you..." And hung up on me. I cried. 2 days post-aprtum I'm sure it was horomones (Or lack there of) but It really made me feel like a bad Mum.
The second scheduled me for an appointment, even after hearing she was born at home, and when I asked her if they were comfortable with not following the recomended schedule she also got very quiet and said: "Ma'am, either you follow the schedule to a 'T' or we can't help you..." I canceled the appointment...
The third laughed at me when I asked about changing the schedule or starting the vaccines later. She laughed and then got quiet and said: "Oh, you're serious?" I hung up on her...
I was very fortunate to find my pediatrician. She accepts no insurance and is cash pay only. She takes maybe 20 newborns a year to see through the age of 18. She's refered to as the Hippie Doctor in town. I get laughed at by people for taking her to a "quack". But I truly believe that she has my child's best interest at heart. She isn't afraid to tell me non biased consequences of herbal or hollistic remedies as well as traditional medicine side effects. She is by far the biggest blessing I could have found.
Texas allows you to exempt yourself or child from all vaccines for any reason. Her first Daycare tried to tell me that I couldn't bring her because she was contagious. People there were truly scared of her. But If your child received the vaccine, wouldn't my child be the only one "sick" if she didn't get a vaccine? I mean, vaccines are "preventative" according to your doctor correct? lol sorry, just being sarcastic now. Either way, to each their own. No need to judge other moms for believing different things.
I wish I could find a TCM doctor down here or some one like your "hippie doctor". There is a time and place for vaccines and antibiotics but I think they are way over done here. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 4:12 PM
Bear - 2017-04-20 10:03 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child. Who says they are "immune debilitating"? How so? Explain how vaccinations are "debilitating" to the immune system. On the contrary, they amplify the immune system. That's how they work. You folks need to stop listening to Jenny McCarthy.
Immune Debilitating. Anything foreign your body injests, or in this case get injected into it, immedietly triggers a response by your body. Food. Germs. A disease. A strain of Flu. Your body reacts.
If your body detects a disease or sickness it forms antibodies to attach to said sickness/disease to kind of "tag" it in a way telling the white blood cells what to attack. Boom. Your immune system reacts. Your immune ssytem is thus weakend because it has had to "fight off" said sickness, disease, flue strain, etc. Immune debilitating.
Please explain how they "amplify" the immune system? (Trying to have a nice debate Bear, not being nasty at all. Very curious why you believe they amplify an immune system.)
Wouldn't your immune system just recognise the foreign matter the next time it entered your system? Your body may "learn" how to fight an infection a bit better, but to me your immune system is only "amplified" by say: Vitamin C, or other immune "Boosting" natural vitamins or herbs. I also believe that medicine works better on my child when she is sick simply because her immune system is so strong and isn't used to traditional forms of medicine. Antibiotics have there place. As do Vaccines. But I don't believe in attacking a baby's immune system with so vaccines at such a young age. I would rather my child's immune system get stronger before I attack it with a vaccine. Just my personal preference. No one is wrong if they follow the schedule in my eyes. Mom knows Best, right?
Explain your understanding of how vaccines work. We can go from there. I need to know your understanding first.
Your fund of knowledge is desperately in need of rehabilitation.
You aren't alone here. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 4:22 PM
GLP - 2017-04-20 12:12 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child. Good lord, that list is insane! I was always the mom who wouldn't get the vaccines until they set a suspension date at school. My daughter would get high temperatures a day or so after her vaccines, not just 100 degrees but 104. I would call the doctor in a panic at night when they came on, he would tell me to wipe her down with a tepid wash cloth and give her tylenol and by the next morning when he opened his office, she would have no fever. He couldn't explain it, then when she was 6 months old she had a seizure, thankfully not a grand mal, but scarey none the less and had a couple a year thereafter, some were grand mal. Never found out why. This lead me to really space out her vaccines. The doctor agreed with me. I did the same for my son and he never had any problems. I don't know if the vaccines had anything to do with her fevers, but they didn't start until she started her vaccines at 2 months. My kids were vaccinated but only the bare minimum. They were outdoor ranch kids and were always healthier than their classmates. I honestly don't know who to believe. It's hard to trust pharmacy companies, but there is no question the polio and small pox vaccines worked for most people.
While looking for a doctor for my little one after she was born, I was told by three different doctors that they refused to see my child.
The first ask me what hospital she was born at and I replied that she was born at home. The lady got very quiet and replied: "We don't really have an opening for people like you..." And hung up on me. I cried. 2 days post-aprtum I'm sure it was horomones (Or lack there of) but It really made me feel like a bad Mum.
The second scheduled me for an appointment, even after hearing she was born at home, and when I asked her if they were comfortable with not following the recomended schedule she also got very quiet and said: "Ma'am, either you follow the schedule to a 'T' or we can't help you..." I canceled the appointment...
The third laughed at me when I asked about changing the schedule or starting the vaccines later. She laughed and then got quiet and said: "Oh, you're serious?" I hung up on her...
I was very fortunate to find my pediatrician. She accepts no insurance and is cash pay only. She takes maybe 20 newborns a year to see through the age of 18. She's refered to as the Hippie Doctor in town. I get laughed at by people for taking her to a "quack". But I truly believe that she has my child's best interest at heart. She isn't afraid to tell me non biased consequences of herbal or hollistic remedies as well as traditional medicine side effects. She is by far the biggest blessing I could have found.
Texas allows you to exempt yourself or child from all vaccines for any reason. Her first Daycare tried to tell me that I couldn't bring her because she was contagious. People there were truly scared of her. But If your child received the vaccine, wouldn't my child be the only one "sick" if she didn't get a vaccine? I mean, vaccines are "preventative" according to your doctor correct? lol sorry, just being sarcastic now. Either way, to each their own. No need to judge other moms for believing different things.
The only problem with your reasoning is not all kids can be vaccinated, and by you sending your unvaccinated child to school increases the risk of a immunocompromised, cancer riddled kid dying of a vaccine preventable disease cause you sent your child to school with a runny nose when in actuality it was a vaccine preventable disease.
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I have'nt read all the replys, but my two boys are grown men with their own children, both my boys got their vaccines that was required when they both were born up untill they reached school age I did all their vaccines by the book and not either one of them had any problems, they are very healthy young men, my oldest is going to be 36 next month and my youngest is 27. Here in Texas they have to have their vaccines befor entering school.. | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 5:12 PM Bear - 2017-04-20 10:03 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child. Who says they are "immune debilitating"? How so? Explain how vaccinations are "debilitating" to the immune system. On the contrary, they amplify the immune system. That's how they work. You folks need to stop listening to Jenny McCarthy.
Immune Debilitating. Anything foreign your body injests, or in this case get injected into it, immedietly triggers a response by your body. Food. Germs. A disease. A strain of Flu. Your body reacts.
If your body detects a disease or sickness it forms antibodies to attach to said sickness/disease to kind of "tag" it in a way telling the white blood cells what to attack. Boom. Your immune system reacts. Your immune ssytem is thus weakend because it has had to "fight off" said sickness, disease, flue strain, etc. Immune debilitating.
Please explain how they "amplify" the immune system? (Trying to have a nice debate Bear, not being nasty at all. Very curious why you believe they amplify an immune system.)
Wouldn't your immune system just recognise the foreign matter the next time it entered your system? Your body may "learn" how to fight an infection a bit better, but to me your immune system is only "amplified" by say: Vitamin C, or other immune "Boosting" natural vitamins or herbs. I also believe that medicine works better on my child when she is sick simply because her immune system is so strong and isn't used to traditional forms of medicine. Antibiotics have there place. As do Vaccines. But I don't believe in attacking a baby's immune system with so vaccines at such a young age. I would rather my child's immune system get stronger before I attack it with a vaccine. Just my personal preference. No one is wrong if they follow the schedule in my eyes. Mom knows Best, right?
The level of intellectual dishonesty in that arguement is laughable. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-04-20 6:30 PM
I have'nt read all the replys, but my two boys are grown men with their own children, both my boys got their vaccines that was required when they both were born up untill they reached school age I did all their vaccines by the book and not either one of them had any problems, they are very healthy young men, my oldest is going to be 36 next month and my youngest is 27. Here in Texas they have to have their vaccines befor entering school..
The recommended vaccines were way less back than. I think only 24 or so now it's 72 or 74. Why do they keep upping the doses of the same shots over and over again? | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
| What's the point in the hep b vaccine for newborns? Hep b is passed through sex, dirty needles, blood. I just had a baby in Jan and I declined the hep b vaccine, My nurse even agreed with me. She said there is no reason for a baby to get that shot. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Hep B is more common in children than people realize. Around the world, over 300 million people have been infected with hep B.
Over 100 million people in the U.S. have been vaccinated against Hep B. The incidence of Hep B 20-25 years ago was about 15 per 100,000 in kids between 10-18. Because of vaccines, that incidence had been lowered to 3 per 100,000 by the year 2000, and now the incidence is way less than 1 per 100,000. That's huge.
The Hep B series is proven to be very safe. Yes there are "reactions" to the vaccine, but those are mainly fever and pain at the injection site...both very transient.
The reason why you don't hear a lot about kids with Hep B is because the virus can take many years to become realized. The illness from Hep B can be very brief and short lived, or it can cause fulminant liver failure and death, or liver cancer. Unvaccinated kids can get hep b from their mothers, contact with family members who have the virus, or contact with anyone in the community who has the virus. It's not like they can only get it from dirty needles and transfusions.
Kids who have the hep B virus have an increased risk of progression to liver cancer of roughly 5% per decade.....in other words, one quarter of them develop liver cancer by age 50. That's not to mention the risk of cirrhosis and liver failure.
Short answer: I received the Hep B series. I recommend it, especially in babies. The risk- benefit ratio can't be disputed.
Edited by Bear 2017-04-20 7:43 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Bnparlay - 2017-04-20 7:03 PM
What's the point in the hep b vaccine for newborns? Hep b is passed through sex, dirty needles, blood. I just had a baby in Jan and I declined the hep b vaccine, My nurse even agreed with me. She said there is no reason for a baby to get that shot.
Your nurse would get a severe dressing down if she were working for me. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Shame on her.
Now, just to be clear, I'm not in favor of forcing people to have their kids vaccinated. I'd rather talk sense to them. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Bnparlay - 2017-04-20 7:03 PM
What's the point in the hep b vaccine for newborns? Hep b is passed through sex, dirty needles, blood. I just had a baby in Jan and I declined the hep b vaccine, My nurse even agreed with me. She said there is no reason for a baby to get that shot.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/child/hepb.html
It's serious and not that hard to spread. If a mother gets it after a baby is born, she could pass it through breastfeeding. She can also pass it during birth if she is already infected. I have met a couple of people that got it while at the hospital. Hospitals are not as clean as people like to think. I remember going in with a friend when she was being induced. Someone else's blood was on a undermounted lever used to turn water on at the sink. We told them and they gave her a different room. Gross but mistakes happen. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I've watched a few people die as a result of the Hep B virus.
One bled to death and there wasn't a thing anyone could do. Another died from liver failure and "encephalopathy".....basically they became very delirious and slowly died. My aunt died from liver cancer, and I've seen a couple others die from it. It's mostly preventable. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Bear - 2017-04-20 7:42 AM
Nita - 2017-04-19 11:26 PM
I have a hard time believing that, in this day and age, the medical community can't figure out how to detect autism and if there is a risk for an individual child taking the MMR vaccine. Of course, they would have to first admit that there is a connection.
They should at least make the separate vaccines available, I know there is a demand for it.
I understand that the companies have done studies where thousands of children show no ill effects so they conclude that the vacs don't cause autism. But, the information available to the casual internet user is pretty compelling. It's seems hard to deny that it DOES effect SOME kids. The manufacturers seem to be ignoring the evidence, though and that makes me not trust them.
The theory l've read that made the most sense to me was that, yes, these kids were most likely going to have autism anyway. But, the MMR vaccine caused an earlier onset and more severe case of it. There are just too many parents whose kids developed autism immediately after receiving this vaccine.
I believe in vaccines. Just don't want to do them all at the same time. It's more expemsive, but I'd rather spread them out to make it safer. It just seemed wrong to do something I knew was likely to make my kid sick. I just can't understand why they won't make separate vacs available when I ask for them.
The key phrase here is: "the information available to the casual internet user......."
Therein lies the problem with the internet.
My intention was to point out how readily available numerous testimonials are from parents whose children became disabled immediately following the MMR vaccine. It can't all be coincidence. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Nita - 2017-04-20 10:01 PM
Bear - 2017-04-20 7:42 AM
Nita - 2017-04-19 11:26 PM
I have a hard time believing that, in this day and age, the medical community can't figure out how to detect autism and if there is a risk for an individual child taking the MMR vaccine. Of course, they would have to first admit that there is a connection.
They should at least make the separate vaccines available, I know there is a demand for it.
I understand that the companies have done studies where thousands of children show no ill effects so they conclude that the vacs don't cause autism. But, the information available to the casual internet user is pretty compelling. It's seems hard to deny that it DOES effect SOME kids. The manufacturers seem to be ignoring the evidence, though and that makes me not trust them.
The theory l've read that made the most sense to me was that, yes, these kids were most likely going to have autism anyway. But, the MMR vaccine caused an earlier onset and more severe case of it. There are just too many parents whose kids developed autism immediately after receiving this vaccine.
I believe in vaccines. Just don't want to do them all at the same time. It's more expemsive, but I'd rather spread them out to make it safer. It just seemed wrong to do something I knew was likely to make my kid sick. I just can't understand why they won't make separate vacs available when I ask for them.
The key phrase here is: "the information available to the casual internet user......."
Therein lies the problem with the internet.
My intention was to point out how readily available numerous testimonials are from parents whose children became disabled immediately following the MMR vaccine. It can't all be coincidence.
Too bad we can't line up testimonials of the people whose lives have been saved by the MMR vaccine, wouldn't you say? Did that ever cross your mind? Think about it. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | I have 7 kids. All of them have had all of their vaccinations. I can't remember when the last antibiotic has been prescribed to my family.
I also have not had an antibiotic for a cold since I was 13 for sterp. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | Bear - 2017-04-20 10:24 PM
Nita - 2017-04-20 10:01 PM
Bear - 2017-04-20 7:42 AM
Nita - 2017-04-19 11:26 PM
I have a hard time believing that, in this day and age, the medical community can't figure out how to detect autism and if there is a risk for an individual child taking the MMR vaccine. Of course, they would have to first admit that there is a connection.
They should at least make the separate vaccines available, I know there is a demand for it.
I understand that the companies have done studies where thousands of children show no ill effects so they conclude that the vacs don't cause autism. But, the information available to the casual internet user is pretty compelling. It's seems hard to deny that it DOES effect SOME kids. The manufacturers seem to be ignoring the evidence, though and that makes me not trust them.
The theory l've read that made the most sense to me was that, yes, these kids were most likely going to have autism anyway. But, the MMR vaccine caused an earlier onset and more severe case of it. There are just too many parents whose kids developed autism immediately after receiving this vaccine.
I believe in vaccines. Just don't want to do them all at the same time. It's more expemsive, but I'd rather spread them out to make it safer. It just seemed wrong to do something I knew was likely to make my kid sick. I just can't understand why they won't make separate vacs available when I ask for them.
The key phrase here is: "the information available to the casual internet user......."
Therein lies the problem with the internet.
My intention was to point out how readily available numerous testimonials are from parents whose children became disabled immediately following the MMR vaccine. It can't all be coincidence.
Too bad we can't line up testimonials of the people whose lives have been saved by the MMR vaccine, wouldn't you say? Did that ever cross your mind? Think about it.
For whatever reason my immunity for the rubella does not last. I need to booster it every 10 years or so | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Bnparlay - 2017-04-20 6:55 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2017-04-20 6:30 PM
I have'nt read all the replys, but my two boys are grown men with their own children, both my boys got their vaccines that was required when they both were born up untill they reached school age I did all their vaccines by the book and not either one of them had any problems, they are very healthy young men, my oldest is going to be 36 next month and my youngest is 27. Here in Texas they have to have their vaccines befor entering school..
The recommended vaccines were way less back than. I think only 24 or so now it's 72 or 74. Why do they keep upping the doses of the same shots over and over again?
It's science, it's just like anything in life, we have discovered scientifically and medically how to make more vaccines for diseases that could never be prevented before. HPV, shingles, different flu strands etc. that's why there's mor vaccines now then there were 30 years ago.
My mom is an infectious disease specialist and I can't tell you how many amazing new drugs are helping people with series fatal diseases live a long healthy life!!!! There are cures for Hep C, new anti viral HIV drugs, people aren't suffering or dieing anymore- look at Magic Johnson (my moms old office treated him) he is still alive and well.
Cancer treatments have come a long way, new treatments where cells fight cells instead of chemo has worked for some patients.
Not all things that medical professionals do are bad people! I believe a lot of cancers and diseases thrive from the things we put in our bodies, the processed foods we eat and sugars. But that's another totally different subject.
Do you research! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Bear - 2017-04-20 10:24 PM
Nita - 2017-04-20 10:01 PM
Bear - 2017-04-20 7:42 AM
Nita - 2017-04-19 11:26 PM
I have a hard time believing that, in this day and age, the medical community can't figure out how to detect autism and if there is a risk for an individual child taking the MMR vaccine. Of course, they would have to first admit that there is a connection.
They should at least make the separate vaccines available, I know there is a demand for it.
I understand that the companies have done studies where thousands of children show no ill effects so they conclude that the vacs don't cause autism. But, the information available to the casual internet user is pretty compelling. It's seems hard to deny that it DOES effect SOME kids. The manufacturers seem to be ignoring the evidence, though and that makes me not trust them.
The theory l've read that made the most sense to me was that, yes, these kids were most likely going to have autism anyway. But, the MMR vaccine caused an earlier onset and more severe case of it. There are just too many parents whose kids developed autism immediately after receiving this vaccine.
I believe in vaccines. Just don't want to do them all at the same time. It's more expemsive, but I'd rather spread them out to make it safer. It just seemed wrong to do something I knew was likely to make my kid sick. I just can't understand why they won't make separate vacs available when I ask for them.
The key phrase here is: "the information available to the casual internet user......."
Therein lies the problem with the internet.
My intention was to point out how readily available numerous testimonials are from parents whose children became disabled immediately following the MMR vaccine. It can't all be coincidence.
Too bad we can't line up testimonials of the people whose lives have been saved by the MMR vaccine, wouldn't you say? Did that ever cross your mind? Think about it.
Did that cross my mind? Yes. And, I agree that vaccines are important and save lives. I never denied that. It seems like large pharmaceutical companies are ignoring the massive damage it likely causes to a small number because, well, because it's a small number of people. Because it's good for a large number of people doesn't mean those families affected should be ignored. I just believe there is so much more to that. It can't be coincidence. I think the pharmaceutical companies could do more to identify who is at risk for damage from that vaccine. The damage it causes to some is terrible, and I think avoidable.
I completely agree with you that vaccines are important and save lives.
I completely disagree that, since it's good for the herd, we should just line our kids up to get what they say when they say. If even one kid is damaged by that, there must be a better way. The medical community should put more effort into what's good for each individual while reaching the goal of protecting the herd. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Instead of replying to each individual question and flooding the post I will reply here.
Again, and as I've said, I have the right as a parent to choose what schedule my child gets vaccinated on.
Yes, my child gets vaccines. Yes my child will be behind on the schedule but that does not make my child a threat to other children. My child has some vaccines. My child goes to daycare with 8 completely unvaccinated children. THey are in her class. That does not worry me in the least. By the time she gets into school she will have had at least one round of the recommended vaccines by her doctor. That does not make me a bad parent for choosing a different path. And that does not mean that anyone who chooses to vaccinate on the recommended schedule is wrong or right in following the schedule. The schedule is a recommendation. The schedule is not law.
I don't believe in giving my child more than one vaccine per visit and I also believe in spacing them out.
In Texas you are exempt from getting any and all vaccines and you do not have to have even one vaccine in order to go to public school. Schools and doctors will tell you different. This is againt the Law. My current exemption form is for a Daycare and is transferable to a school. Each time I get a new vaccine for her I have to get an updated form showing what vaccines she has gotten and what she should be considered exempt from since she is behind. THe law of exemptions is found here: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/ED/htm/ED.38.htm#38.001
It is against the law to tell someone they must vaccinate their child in the state of Texas before going to a public school.
Doctors can get away with turning away patients who want to prolong the schedule or not follow it exactly. That Administrative code is found here: https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=97&rl=101
Bear: It is my understanding that when a vaccine is introduced into your body, your body must fight off the infection/vaccine. Exactly how. I am no expert. I also understand that once the vaccine has been fought off your body knows how to fight it off again because it has "learned" how to fight it off. I am not arguing that vaccines are not needed or are not good. I understand that much that they have their place. My idea is: Why would I want to flood my child's immune system with up to 4 or 5 different vaccines at once? Why would I not want to space them out and allow her body to fight off each vaccine one by one? I don't think it's completely inhumane to ask a doctor for one vaccine at a time with spcae inbetween for the immune system to build back up. Just my belief. I don't judge anyone or say anyone is wrong for going by the schedule.
I'm sorry some of you feel the need to pick on me for my beliefs. Maybe I did not convey them correctly or accurately. I'm sorry some of you feel like I am a bad Mum for prolonging or changing a vaccine schedule under the care of a liscensed Doctor. And I'm sorry you feel like giving me the worst case scenario and 1% cases (childhood cancer caused by a completely non vaccinated child. How incredibly sad.) in order to persuade me to stick to the exact schedule.
I have never once tried to persuade anyone to believe what I believe. I am simply stating my belief and opinion. I don't think it's fair to critisize someone for that. We can agree to disagree without calling names or putting people down. It isn't hard. 
My child receives vaccines, maybe it isn't on the CDCs schedule but she still receives certain vaccines. I am not an "Anti Vaxxer". I believe that certain vaccines have their time and place. But I don't think I should follow the schedule blindly without any question. especially knowing that no vaccine company can be held liable for my child's health after the vaccine is administred. If that makes me an uneducated, "laughable" Mum. So be it. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies.
Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch.
Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold.
Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life.
No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day.
I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This actually is a very good reference for a lot of topics in medicine:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-infection-schedule-vrs-the-vacc... | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
| That is gross! Can you not sue for picking up something like that in a hospital? To me that is not a mistake that should not happen. That's just plain scary to me. We actually thought our room wasn't very clean when I was having my daughter and took pictures of it. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject.
Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol
I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear.
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-21 3:34 PM
Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject.
Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol
I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear.
But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | rodeoveteran - 2017-04-22 1:09 PM
IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-21 3:34 PM
Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject.
Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol
I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear.
But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced.
Go back and re-read all of my response. I did address it. You missed it.
Here's one pediatrician's approach. I like it:
https://www.popsugar.com/moms/Pediatrician-Post-About-All-Patients-N... | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Re-posting this for you, Rodeoveteran:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-infection-schedule-vrs-the-vacc... | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeoveteran - 2017-04-22 1:09 PM
IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-21 3:34 PM
Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject.
Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol
I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear.
But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced.
The schedule that CDC recommends is based on years of surveillance and research.
Sure if you want to give one vaccine at a time, but there are certain vaccines that if you split them up will not give the individual the maximum immunity.
Menincoccal is one example, it provides better immunity when paired with tetanus.
Whooping cough does better when paired with tetanus, this is why this vaccine is not offered as an individual vaccine.
Also cost is another reason who vaccines are not offered separately, your insurance company, government doesn't want the extra cost to have the vaccine produced individually, even if you pay for it, you are not paying the full cost, vaccines are subsidized so more people can afford it.
Also why would you want to split them up? The majority of the anti vaxxers arguement is they don't want all the extras injected into their child. Doing one at a time you will be adding more of the extras into your child over their lifespan.
Also if you are doing your own schedule, if you don't follow through with the spacing between vaccines and wait a longer time, you are giving yourself a false sense of security thinking your child is vaccinated. The memory cells will decrease the longer you go without immunizing causing your child to have an increased risk of contracting the disease. Children have a less mature immune system then an adult, and this is why they require more vaccines than an adult starting out.
The research has shown that before immunization cause any impact on the immune system, the child has to receive 1000 different vaccines on the same day, therefore the few they do get will not weaken their immune system. | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Vickie - 2017-04-19 10:47 PM When I was growing up we got our immune systems going as soon as our mothers put us down. From siblings, neighbors and playing in the dirt. Unfortunately for many that is no longer true. I totally agree that vaccines need research (shame funding is being cut off) and improvement, but now, for most, they are necessary. For the one child who may have had an adverse reaction and the other who may be able to blame a problem on a vaccine, 1,000 lives were saved worldwide by vaccinations. Do you remember Polio? Guess why not? Because a vaccine eliminated it in this country. When you look at this issue as a parent you should look at it as playing the odds with you and your neighbor's children's lives in the balance. What are you willing to bet? Have you asked your friends and neighbors and your child's classmates parents if they approve of your bet This is one time I know of a use for charter schools, in California there has been a big increase in sick children at charters because like minded, non-vac parents have grouped together.
^^^^ THIS......there is something to be said for being old (pre vaccinations for polio, mumps, measles, etc) and seeing your friend being permanently crippled from polio, young boys have serious problems with mumps and children dying of measles. These diseases were almost completely eradicated until some "uneducated" people decided to NOT vaccinate. Arkansas in the past 6 months had TWO THOUSAND cases of mumps. You may not care if your child contracts these diseases but did you ever stop to consider that you may KILL a child by passing this disease to a child whose systems are compromised and can't be vaccinated? And to the person who blamed the third world immigrants for "bringing" the diseases back to the U.S. .....that is a ridiculous theory....yes, they may have brought it here but it is SPREAD by the "unvaccinated" children !
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | cheryl makofka - 2017-04-22 2:29 PM rodeoveteran - 2017-04-22 1:09 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-21 3:34 PM Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject. Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol
I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear.
But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced. The schedule that CDC recommends is based on years of surveillance and research. Sure if you want to give one vaccine at a time, but there are certain vaccines that if you split them up will not give the individual the maximum immunity. Menincoccal is one example, it provides better immunity when paired with tetanus. Whooping cough does better when paired with tetanus, this is why this vaccine is not offered as an individual vaccine. Also cost is another reason who vaccines are not offered separately, your insurance company, government doesn't want the extra cost to have the vaccine produced individually, even if you pay for it, you are not paying the full cost, vaccines are subsidized so more people can afford it. Also why would you want to split them up? The majority of the anti vaxxers arguement is they don't want all the extras injected into their child. Doing one at a time you will be adding more of the extras into your child over their lifespan. Also if you are doing your own schedule, if you don't follow through with the spacing between vaccines and wait a longer time, you are giving yourself a false sense of security thinking your child is vaccinated. The memory cells will decrease the longer you go without immunizing causing your child to have an increased risk of contracting the disease. Children have a less mature immune system then an adult, and this is why they require more vaccines than an adult starting out. The research has shown that before immunization cause any impact on the immune system, the child has to receive 1000 different vaccines on the same day, therefore the few they do get will not weaken their immune system.
Her pediatrician does not accept insurance. She is cash pay as stated before.
I pay cash for her visit and pay cash per vaccine. I don't understand how cost has anything to do with it? Insurance companies and governements don't want the cost of anything, but forcing me to pay for a vaccine in a certain form or with certain other vaccines just because it is cheaper for them to produce is not only illegal, it shouldn't matter either way how I pay or how much I pay. Insurance companies cost does not matter to me or my child's health. My child has insurance that I cannot use at her pediatrician's office. That is my choice. And again, i'm not entirely sure why that matters. I have her insurance for her Rheumatology, ENT, and other specialists she sees for her genetic disorders and auto immune disorders/diseases. If the goverment was hurting because of vaccines I am buying individually then we have a goverment spending issue, not a vaccine issue. I promise you the cost per vaccine would most likely go up if it was a problem.
My child is not on my own schedule. She is on a schedule her doctor has been using for many years with other children, not just my child. We have consulted for many hours over her schedule. Her doctor has been in practice for over 30 years. If something was wrong with her schedule of vaccines someone would have filed a case by now. It's 2017. People file cases because their feelings get hurt... Something would have came up by now if it was an issue.
I approached her doctor with a concern and she gave me a schedule to follow. Sometimes, yes we do make changes to the schedule. For instance, if my child has just seen her Rheumetologist, or ENT, or any other of her long list of specialists the same day or day before we reschedule for a day or two later simply because I don't feel the need to put her through another shot or doctor visit. She sees enough needles at her other doctor visits.
I feel no security what-so-ever in immunizing my child. Vaccines scare me to death. I don't know what exactly is in them. I don't know if she really needs them. But I do trust her doctor. And if her doctor says she is better with them then she is better with them. If her doctor feels comfortable spacing out vaccines like me, then I trust her to space them correctly. She's been to the same classes and years of school any other doctor has. She simply has an outlook of: "You are the parent. You know your child better than me. I work for you. You tell me what exactly your concerns are and I will give you three options with pros and cons of each." And she does.
Her rheumatologist, ENT, and other specialists at Cook Children's have all seen her vaccine schedule. It gets updated when she gets a new vaccine as well. They have yet to say anything about her vaccine schedule to me. If it was a concern the many doctors she has seen who have asked "Is she up-to-date on vaccines" and then looked at her vaccine record and copy of the schedule she is on would have said something by now if something concerned them.
Again, what you feel is right for your child is not entirely right, or entirely wrong, for every child. What is right for my child is not right or wrong for any other child. And again, that doesn't make any mother a bad mother for following, or not following the CDC's reccomended schedule.
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-24 9:05 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-04-22 2:29 PM rodeoveteran - 2017-04-22 1:09 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-21 3:34 PM Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject. Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol
I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear.
But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced. The schedule that CDC recommends is based on years of surveillance and research. Sure if you want to give one vaccine at a time, but there are certain vaccines that if you split them up will not give the individual the maximum immunity. Menincoccal is one example, it provides better immunity when paired with tetanus. Whooping cough does better when paired with tetanus, this is why this vaccine is not offered as an individual vaccine. Also cost is another reason who vaccines are not offered separately, your insurance company, government doesn't want the extra cost to have the vaccine produced individually, even if you pay for it, you are not paying the full cost, vaccines are subsidized so more people can afford it. Also why would you want to split them up? The majority of the anti vaxxers arguement is they don't want all the extras injected into their child. Doing one at a time you will be adding more of the extras into your child over their lifespan. Also if you are doing your own schedule, if you don't follow through with the spacing between vaccines and wait a longer time, you are giving yourself a false sense of security thinking your child is vaccinated. The memory cells will decrease the longer you go without immunizing causing your child to have an increased risk of contracting the disease. Children have a less mature immune system then an adult, and this is why they require more vaccines than an adult starting out. The research has shown that before immunization cause any impact on the immune system, the child has to receive 1000 different vaccines on the same day, therefore the few they do get will not weaken their immune system.
I pay cash for her visit and pay cash per vaccine. I don't understand how cost has anything to do with it? Insurance companies and governements don't want the cost of anything, but forcing me to pay for a vaccine in a certain form or with certain other vaccines just because it is cheaper for them to produce is not only illegal, it shouldn't matter either way how I pay or how much I pay. Insurance companies cost does not matter to me or my child's health. My child has insurance that I cannot use at her pediatrician's office. That is my choice. And again, i'm not entirely sure why that matters. I have her insurance for her Rheumatology, ENT, and other specialists she sees for her genetic disorders and auto immune disorders/diseases. If the goverment was hurting because of vaccines I am buying individually then we have a goverment spending issue, not a vaccine issue. I promise you the cost per vaccine would most likely go up if it was a problem.
My child is not on my own schedule. She is on a schedule her doctor has been using for many years with other children, not just my child. We have consulted for many hours over her schedule. Her doctor has been in practice for over 30 years. If something was wrong with her schedule of vaccines someone would have filed a case by now. It's 2017. People file cases because their feelings get hurt... Something would have came up by now if it was an issue.
I approached her doctor with a concern and she gave me a schedule to follow. Sometimes, yes we do make changes to the schedule. For instance, if my child has just seen her Rheumetologist, or ENT, or any other of her long list of specialists the same day or day before we reschedule for a day or two later simply because I don't feel the need to put her through another shot or doctor visit. She sees enough needles at her other doctor visits.
I feel no security what-so-ever in immunizing my child. Vaccines scare me to death. I don't know what exactly is in them. I don't know if she really needs them. But I do trust her doctor. And if her doctor says she is better with them then she is better with them. If her doctor feels comfortable spacing out vaccines like me, then I trust her to space them correctly. She's been to the same classes and years of school any other doctor has. She simply has an outlook of: "You are the parent. You know your child better than me. I work for you. You tell me what exactly your concerns are and I will give you three options with pros and cons of each." And she does.
Her rheumatologist, ENT, and other specialists at Cook Children's have all seen her vaccine schedule. It gets updated when she gets a new vaccine as well. They have yet to say anything about her vaccine schedule to me. If it was a concern the many doctors she has seen who have asked "Is she up-to-date on vaccines" and then looked at her vaccine record and copy of the schedule she is on would have said something by now if something concerned them.
Again, what you feel is right for your child is not entirely right, or entirely wrong, for every child. What is right for my child is not right or wrong for any other child. And again, that doesn't make any mother a bad mother for following, or not following the CDC's reccomended schedule.
I really think you are comparing apples and oranges here....you DO vaccinate your child and have serious concerns because she HAS other health problems. No one would consider you a "bad" mother but one who has taken the time to do research and vaccinate appropriately for her child. That being said, the majority of "anti-vaxers" think that NO vaccines should be given.....EVER ...... I consider those people the ones who are uneducated and are the reasons that these diseases are making a recurrence to the detrimental health of others...... | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | IRunOnFaith, I completely understand how people can become scared to death of these ever-increasing vaccines. I really can. My suggestion to you is to continue to try and understand the real, unadulterated science behind vaccines, the immune system, and how they actually work. The KEY to understanding how people are so fearful of vaccines is to first, and foremost, realize that those who are most fearful really don't have a good understanding of how vaccines actually work. Vaccines are foreign proteins, or "antigens". A normal healthy immune system will respond to these antigens by creating cells capable of generating antibodies that are extremely specific to that antigen. Now here's the part that I want you to understand very clearly: THE HUMAN BODY IS LITERALLY EXPOSED TO THOUSANDS.....that's right, THOUSANDS of antigens on a daily basis.
We are exposed through scratches in our skin, the air we breathe, the food we eat, and anything we touch. Of all the various healing modalities we see in modern medicine, nothing we do is more NATURAL than immunization. The immune system is NOT "overwhelmed" by vaccines. That simply is not true. In fact, the reverse is true. The immune system is strengthened and amplified by vaccinations. Unfortunately, your fears are based more on myth and superstition, rather than fact. You are not alone. Hopefully, fewer people will refractory to learning as the truth and facts are disseminated, in response to this "anti-vax" craze. If the majority of people would have accepted the premise on which the anti-vax movement is based, tens of millions of people would have died over the last 60 years.
Take a look at this simplified diagram. I think it drives home the basic idea that the basic process for "active" versus "passive" immunity is through the SAME mechanism. Natural, active immunity is seen when your foal or calf drinks colostrum, or when a mother breast feeds a child. The antibodies are pre-formed, armed and ready to fire at a specific antigen "invader". In a short period of time, that foal, calf, or human baby develops its own immune system, capable of taking over. Natural, PASSIVE immunity occurs when there is an actual bacterial or viral infection......assuming the person actually survives. Usually, the initial response to this new germ (virus or bacteria) is a bit slow, but subsequent exposures to that same invader or antigen is much faster and much more intense. We call this a "second set response" and it is based on the amazing property that the immune system possesses MEMORY.
Now, ARTIFICIAL "passive" immunity is seen when we give someone life-saving antibodies, for example tetanus immune globulin ("HyperTet"). This contains antibodies that are already made, and designed to immediately attack and eliminate the protein in tetanus toxin in people who have not been adequately immunized and have sustained a wound that is more likely to harbor the tetanus causing organism....high risk wounds. Those individuals who sustain a laceration or puncture on their bare foot while out in a pasture and have not received a tetanus shot at least within 10 years, should receive both active (hypertet) and passive (tdap vaccine) immunization. ARTIFICIAL "active" immunity is achieved through vaccines. The immune response is the same is with the actual infection. The beauty of vaccines is that the bacteria or virus is either killed or "inactivated" to the extent that it cannot produce the actual full blown disease in over 99.9% of people.
I hope this helps. Just read this kind of stuff and try to keep the emotions out of it. See if it doesn't make sense.
Edited by Bear 2017-04-24 10:04 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | NJJ - 2017-04-24 9:27 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-24 9:05 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-04-22 2:29 PM rodeoveteran - 2017-04-22 1:09 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-21 3:34 PM Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject. Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol
I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear.
But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced. The schedule that CDC recommends is based on years of surveillance and research. Sure if you want to give one vaccine at a time, but there are certain vaccines that if you split them up will not give the individual the maximum immunity. Menincoccal is one example, it provides better immunity when paired with tetanus. Whooping cough does better when paired with tetanus, this is why this vaccine is not offered as an individual vaccine. Also cost is another reason who vaccines are not offered separately, your insurance company, government doesn't want the extra cost to have the vaccine produced individually, even if you pay for it, you are not paying the full cost, vaccines are subsidized so more people can afford it. Also why would you want to split them up? The majority of the anti vaxxers arguement is they don't want all the extras injected into their child. Doing one at a time you will be adding more of the extras into your child over their lifespan. Also if you are doing your own schedule, if you don't follow through with the spacing between vaccines and wait a longer time, you are giving yourself a false sense of security thinking your child is vaccinated. The memory cells will decrease the longer you go without immunizing causing your child to have an increased risk of contracting the disease. Children have a less mature immune system then an adult, and this is why they require more vaccines than an adult starting out. The research has shown that before immunization cause any impact on the immune system, the child has to receive 1000 different vaccines on the same day, therefore the few they do get will not weaken their immune system.
I pay cash for her visit and pay cash per vaccine. I don't understand how cost has anything to do with it? Insurance companies and governements don't want the cost of anything, but forcing me to pay for a vaccine in a certain form or with certain other vaccines just because it is cheaper for them to produce is not only illegal, it shouldn't matter either way how I pay or how much I pay. Insurance companies cost does not matter to me or my child's health. My child has insurance that I cannot use at her pediatrician's office. That is my choice. And again, i'm not entirely sure why that matters. I have her insurance for her Rheumatology, ENT, and other specialists she sees for her genetic disorders and auto immune disorders/diseases. If the goverment was hurting because of vaccines I am buying individually then we have a goverment spending issue, not a vaccine issue. I promise you the cost per vaccine would most likely go up if it was a problem.
My child is not on my own schedule. She is on a schedule her doctor has been using for many years with other children, not just my child. We have consulted for many hours over her schedule. Her doctor has been in practice for over 30 years. If something was wrong with her schedule of vaccines someone would have filed a case by now. It's 2017. People file cases because their feelings get hurt... Something would have came up by now if it was an issue.
I approached her doctor with a concern and she gave me a schedule to follow. Sometimes, yes we do make changes to the schedule. For instance, if my child has just seen her Rheumetologist, or ENT, or any other of her long list of specialists the same day or day before we reschedule for a day or two later simply because I don't feel the need to put her through another shot or doctor visit. She sees enough needles at her other doctor visits.
I feel no security what-so-ever in immunizing my child. Vaccines scare me to death. I don't know what exactly is in them. I don't know if she really needs them. But I do trust her doctor. And if her doctor says she is better with them then she is better with them. If her doctor feels comfortable spacing out vaccines like me, then I trust her to space them correctly. She's been to the same classes and years of school any other doctor has. She simply has an outlook of: "You are the parent. You know your child better than me. I work for you. You tell me what exactly your concerns are and I will give you three options with pros and cons of each." And she does.
Her rheumatologist, ENT, and other specialists at Cook Children's have all seen her vaccine schedule. It gets updated when she gets a new vaccine as well. They have yet to say anything about her vaccine schedule to me. If it was a concern the many doctors she has seen who have asked "Is she up-to-date on vaccines" and then looked at her vaccine record and copy of the schedule she is on would have said something by now if something concerned them.
Again, what you feel is right for your child is not entirely right, or entirely wrong, for every child. What is right for my child is not right or wrong for any other child. And again, that doesn't make any mother a bad mother for following, or not following the CDC's reccomended schedule.
Thank you NJJ. As I've said before, every mother has the right to choose in my eyes. I don't think any mother should be considered a bad mom either way.
Until one is educated on both ends, unbiased, I don't think one can make an informed decision for their child either way. I lack in the educated department for sure on most things, especially when it comes to medical terminology and specifics, but I have reasearched from biased and unbiased sources on many occasions regarding my child and her health. The hard part is putting your opinions to the side and making a decision based on facts that you find that are backed by research. That may scare you to death, but facts don't lie.
I think both sides can be argued when making a decision based upon research backed facts. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Bear - 2017-04-24 9:36 AM IRunOnFaith, I completely understand how people can become scared to death of these ever-increasing vaccines. I really can. My suggestion to you is to continue to try and understand the real, unadulterated science behind vaccines, the immune system, and how they actually work. The KEY to understanding how people are so fearful of vaccines is to first, and foremost, realize that those who are most fearful really don't have a good understanding of how vaccines actually work. Vaccines are foreign proteins, or "antigens". A normal healthy immune system will respond to these antigens by creating cells capable of generating antibodies that are extremely specific to that antigen. Now here's the part that I want you to understand very clearly: THE HUMAN BODY IS LITERALLY EXPOSED TO THOUSANDS.....that's right, THOUSANDS of antigens on a daily basis. We are exposed through scratches in our skin, the air we breathe, the food we eat, and anything we touch. Of all the various healing modalities we see in modern medicine, nothing we do is more NATURAL than immunization. The immune system is NOT "overwhelmed" by vaccines. That simply is not true. In fact, the reverse is true. The immune system is strengthened and amplified by vaccinations. Unfortunately, your fears are based more on myth and superstition, rather than fact. You are not alone. Hopefully, fewer people will refractory to learning as the truth and facts are disseminated, in response to this "anti-vax" craze. If the majority of people would have accepted the premise on which the anti-vax movement is based, tens of millions of people would have died over the last 60 years. Take a look at this simplified diagram. I think it drives home the basic idea that the basic process for "active" versus "passive" immunity is through the SAME mechanism. Natural, active immunity is seen when your foal or calf drinks colostrum, or when a mother breast feeds a child. The antibodies are pre-formed, armed and ready to fire at a specific antigen "invader". In a short period of time, that foal, calf, or human baby develops its own immune system, capable of taking over. Natural, PASSIVE immunity occurs when there is an actual bacterial or viral infection......assuming the person actually survives. Usually, the initial response to this new germ (virus or bacteria) is a bit slow, but subsequent exposures to that same invader or antigen is much faster and much more intense. We call this a "second set response" and it is based on the amazing property that the immune system possesses MEMORY. Now, ARTIFICIAL "passive" immunity is seen when we give someone life-saving antibodies, for example tetanus immune globulin ("HyperTet"). This contains antibodies that are already made, and designed to immediately attack and eliminate the protein in tetanus toxin in people who have not been adequately immunized and have sustained a wound that is more likely to harbor the tetanus causing organism....high risk wounds. Those individuals who sustain a laceration or puncture on their bare foot while out in a pasture and have not received a tetanus shot at least within 10 years, should receive both active (hypertet) and passive (tdap vaccine) immunization. ARTIFICIAL "active" immunity is achieved through vaccines. The immune response is the same is with the actual infection. The beauty of vaccines is that the bacteria or virus is either killed or "inactivated" to the extent that it cannot produce the actual full blown disease in over 99.9% of people. I hope this helps. Just read this kind of stuff and try to keep the emotions out of it. See if it doesn't make sense.
Bear, again, thank you so much for taking the time to explain. I respect your stance on vaccines and I am very impressed with your knowledge on how the human body works and responds to vaccines.
My child has many health problems that a simple genetic test couldn't have detected and I think this is where most of my fear comes from. She will never be "healthy" like most other children and she will have lifelong medications, therapies, and doctors visits in order to function like a "normal" child. Working closely with her doctor and getting her exactly what she needs when she needs it is my top priority. Her diagnosis changes daily it seems like. I'm told Auto Immune diseases and disorders can do that. Sometimes they show up, sometimes they don't. I am following doctors orders and I am vaccinating. But that doesn't mean that I am scared to death everytime her immune system is impacted. Whether it be at school, at home, by a vaccine, by playing with a dog, by a scratch from a tree branch. She is exposed to many things. I understand that. And those things scare me as well. Everything she does scares the heck out of me. I worry and I ask her doctors why and how. I spend time talking with her doctors trying to understand certain things about her and her many medications, not just taking a new prescription and following blindly.
I think that any parent should be educated on this particular subject all emotion aside and I encourage new moms to do their research from both sides unbiased. I lack in this particular department as far as specifics go and that is evident but I have learned a few things from this thread. Does it make me any less scared to death when she gets a vaccine of any kind? No because there is always that what if in the back of my mind. But I am smart enough to trust her doctor's advice, and I think that in time, once all her vaccines have been had, once she is 18 and off to college, and once she is stable in her diseases and disorders, I can be able to breathe. Until then, I'll keep asking why and I'll keep being open to new ideas and research. But for now, I think i'm content with being afraid for her health everytime her immune system is front and center...  | |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| I think that the increasing resistance has lass to do with a lack of education and more to do with people's increasing distrust of
The Government
The Pharmaceutical industry
Insurance companies
Doctors (who are trained and swayed by the above) | |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | rodeoveteran - 2017-04-24 8:28 AM
I think that the increasing resistance has lass to do with a lack of education and more to do with people's increasing distrust of
The Government
The Pharmaceutical industry
Insurance companies
Doctors (who are trained and swayed by the above)
Hammer meet nail. ^^^^ | |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-24 10:07 AM NJJ - 2017-04-24 9:27 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-24 9:05 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-04-22 2:29 PM rodeoveteran - 2017-04-22 1:09 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-21 3:34 PM Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject. Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol
I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear.
But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced. The schedule that CDC recommends is based on years of surveillance and research. Sure if you want to give one vaccine at a time, but there are certain vaccines that if you split them up will not give the individual the maximum immunity. Menincoccal is one example, it provides better immunity when paired with tetanus. Whooping cough does better when paired with tetanus, this is why this vaccine is not offered as an individual vaccine. Also cost is another reason who vaccines are not offered separately, your insurance company, government doesn't want the extra cost to have the vaccine produced individually, even if you pay for it, you are not paying the full cost, vaccines are subsidized so more people can afford it. Also why would you want to split them up? The majority of the anti vaxxers arguement is they don't want all the extras injected into their child. Doing one at a time you will be adding more of the extras into your child over their lifespan. Also if you are doing your own schedule, if you don't follow through with the spacing between vaccines and wait a longer time, you are giving yourself a false sense of security thinking your child is vaccinated. The memory cells will decrease the longer you go without immunizing causing your child to have an increased risk of contracting the disease. Children have a less mature immune system then an adult, and this is why they require more vaccines than an adult starting out. The research has shown that before immunization cause any impact on the immune system, the child has to receive 1000 different vaccines on the same day, therefore the few they do get will not weaken their immune system.
I pay cash for her visit and pay cash per vaccine. I don't understand how cost has anything to do with it? Insurance companies and governements don't want the cost of anything, but forcing me to pay for a vaccine in a certain form or with certain other vaccines just because it is cheaper for them to produce is not only illegal, it shouldn't matter either way how I pay or how much I pay. Insurance companies cost does not matter to me or my child's health. My child has insurance that I cannot use at her pediatrician's office. That is my choice. And again, i'm not entirely sure why that matters. I have her insurance for her Rheumatology, ENT, and other specialists she sees for her genetic disorders and auto immune disorders/diseases. If the goverment was hurting because of vaccines I am buying individually then we have a goverment spending issue, not a vaccine issue. I promise you the cost per vaccine would most likely go up if it was a problem.
My child is not on my own schedule. She is on a schedule her doctor has been using for many years with other children, not just my child. We have consulted for many hours over her schedule. Her doctor has been in practice for over 30 years. If something was wrong with her schedule of vaccines someone would have filed a case by now. It's 2017. People file cases because their feelings get hurt... Something would have came up by now if it was an issue.
I approached her doctor with a concern and she gave me a schedule to follow. Sometimes, yes we do make changes to the schedule. For instance, if my child has just seen her Rheumetologist, or ENT, or any other of her long list of specialists the same day or day before we reschedule for a day or two later simply because I don't feel the need to put her through another shot or doctor visit. She sees enough needles at her other doctor visits.
I feel no security what-so-ever in immunizing my child. Vaccines scare me to death. I don't know what exactly is in them. I don't know if she really needs them. But I do trust her doctor. And if her doctor says she is better with them then she is better with them. If her doctor feels comfortable spacing out vaccines like me, then I trust her to space them correctly. She's been to the same classes and years of school any other doctor has. She simply has an outlook of: "You are the parent. You know your child better than me. I work for you. You tell me what exactly your concerns are and I will give you three options with pros and cons of each." And she does.
Her rheumatologist, ENT, and other specialists at Cook Children's have all seen her vaccine schedule. It gets updated when she gets a new vaccine as well. They have yet to say anything about her vaccine schedule to me. If it was a concern the many doctors she has seen who have asked "Is she up-to-date on vaccines" and then looked at her vaccine record and copy of the schedule she is on would have said something by now if something concerned them.
Again, what you feel is right for your child is not entirely right, or entirely wrong, for every child. What is right for my child is not right or wrong for any other child. And again, that doesn't make any mother a bad mother for following, or not following the CDC's reccomended schedule.
Until one is educated on both ends, unbiased, I don't think one can make an informed decision for their child either way. I lack in the educated department for sure on most things, especially when it comes to medical terminology and specifics, but I have reasearched from biased and unbiased sources on many occasions regarding my child and her health. The hard part is putting your opinions to the side and making a decision based on facts that you find that are backed by research. That may scare you to death, but facts don't lie.
I think both sides can be argued when making a decision based upon research backed facts.
You are correct that facts DON'T LIE.......the fact IS that several of these diseases have been erradicated but have now reemerged due to people NOT vaccinating their children.....THAT is the fact they choose to ignore! Like I said, I am old enough to have seen and known people who were crippled by polio, boys/young men having serious problems with mumps and children dying of measles.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | rodeoveteran - 2017-04-24 10:28 AM
I think that the increasing resistance has lass to do with a lack of education and more to do with people's increasing distrust of
The Government
The Pharmaceutical industry
Insurance companies
Doctors (who are trained and swayed by the above)
You aren't helping at all, Rodeoveteran. I'm busting my ass trying to explain things, devoid of all the emotionally charged stuff, and you come in and just toss this crap in the mix. I don't have a dog in this fight, except for a desire to promote better healthcare. The overwhelming majority of docs don't have a vested interest in promoting vaccines "for the money". We are plenty busy. We don't receive "commission" for giving vaccines. We're having a helluva time meeting the needs of legitimately sick people as it is. People have a hell of a time getting in to see their private docs as it is. We don't need to hustle for more business for chrissakes.
Instead of just reading and discussing with logic and reason, you go and throw in a bunch of paranoid jibberish. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | Bear - 2017-04-24 10:50 AM
rodeoveteran - 2017-04-24 10:28 AM
I think that the increasing resistance has lass to do with a lack of education and more to do with people's increasing distrust of
The Government
The Pharmaceutical industry
Insurance companies
Doctors (who are trained and swayed by the above)
You aren't helping at all, Rodeoveteran. I'm busting my ass trying to explain things, devoid of all the emotionally charged stuff, and you come in and just toss this crap in the mix. I don't have a dog in this fight, except for a desire to promote better healthcare. The overwhelming majority of docs don't have a vested interest in promoting vaccines "for the money". We are plenty busy. We don't receive "commission" for giving vaccines. We're having a helluva time meeting the needs of legitimately sick people as it is. People have a hell of a time getting in to see their private docs as it is. We don't need to hustle for more business for chrissakes.
Instead of just reading and discussing with logic and reason, you go and throw in a bunch of paranoid jibberish.
But.... it's true. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | NJJ - 2017-04-24 10:45 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-24 10:07 AM NJJ - 2017-04-24 9:27 AM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-24 9:05 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-04-22 2:29 PM rodeoveteran - 2017-04-22 1:09 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-21 3:34 PM Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject. Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol
I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear.
But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced. The schedule that CDC recommends is based on years of surveillance and research. Sure if you want to give one vaccine at a time, but there are certain vaccines that if you split them up will not give the individual the maximum immunity. Menincoccal is one example, it provides better immunity when paired with tetanus. Whooping cough does better when paired with tetanus, this is why this vaccine is not offered as an individual vaccine. Also cost is another reason who vaccines are not offered separately, your insurance company, government doesn't want the extra cost to have the vaccine produced individually, even if you pay for it, you are not paying the full cost, vaccines are subsidized so more people can afford it. Also why would you want to split them up? The majority of the anti vaxxers arguement is they don't want all the extras injected into their child. Doing one at a time you will be adding more of the extras into your child over their lifespan. Also if you are doing your own schedule, if you don't follow through with the spacing between vaccines and wait a longer time, you are giving yourself a false sense of security thinking your child is vaccinated. The memory cells will decrease the longer you go without immunizing causing your child to have an increased risk of contracting the disease. Children have a less mature immune system then an adult, and this is why they require more vaccines than an adult starting out. The research has shown that before immunization cause any impact on the immune system, the child has to receive 1000 different vaccines on the same day, therefore the few they do get will not weaken their immune system.
I pay cash for her visit and pay cash per vaccine. I don't understand how cost has anything to do with it? Insurance companies and governements don't want the cost of anything, but forcing me to pay for a vaccine in a certain form or with certain other vaccines just because it is cheaper for them to produce is not only illegal, it shouldn't matter either way how I pay or how much I pay. Insurance companies cost does not matter to me or my child's health. My child has insurance that I cannot use at her pediatrician's office. That is my choice. And again, i'm not entirely sure why that matters. I have her insurance for her Rheumatology, ENT, and other specialists she sees for her genetic disorders and auto immune disorders/diseases. If the goverment was hurting because of vaccines I am buying individually then we have a goverment spending issue, not a vaccine issue. I promise you the cost per vaccine would most likely go up if it was a problem.
My child is not on my own schedule. She is on a schedule her doctor has been using for many years with other children, not just my child. We have consulted for many hours over her schedule. Her doctor has been in practice for over 30 years. If something was wrong with her schedule of vaccines someone would have filed a case by now. It's 2017. People file cases because their feelings get hurt... Something would have came up by now if it was an issue.
I approached her doctor with a concern and she gave me a schedule to follow. Sometimes, yes we do make changes to the schedule. For instance, if my child has just seen her Rheumetologist, or ENT, or any other of her long list of specialists the same day or day before we reschedule for a day or two later simply because I don't feel the need to put her through another shot or doctor visit. She sees enough needles at her other doctor visits.
I feel no security what-so-ever in immunizing my child. Vaccines scare me to death. I don't know what exactly is in them. I don't know if she really needs them. But I do trust her doctor. And if her doctor says she is better with them then she is better with them. If her doctor feels comfortable spacing out vaccines like me, then I trust her to space them correctly. She's been to the same classes and years of school any other doctor has. She simply has an outlook of: "You are the parent. You know your child better than me. I work for you. You tell me what exactly your concerns are and I will give you three options with pros and cons of each." And she does.
Her rheumatologist, ENT, and other specialists at Cook Children's have all seen her vaccine schedule. It gets updated when she gets a new vaccine as well. They have yet to say anything about her vaccine schedule to me. If it was a concern the many doctors she has seen who have asked "Is she up-to-date on vaccines" and then looked at her vaccine record and copy of the schedule she is on would have said something by now if something concerned them.
Again, what you feel is right for your child is not entirely right, or entirely wrong, for every child. What is right for my child is not right or wrong for any other child. And again, that doesn't make any mother a bad mother for following, or not following the CDC's reccomended schedule.
Until one is educated on both ends, unbiased, I don't think one can make an informed decision for their child either way. I lack in the educated department for sure on most things, especially when it comes to medical terminology and specifics, but I have reasearched from biased and unbiased sources on many occasions regarding my child and her health. The hard part is putting your opinions to the side and making a decision based on facts that you find that are backed by research. That may scare you to death, but facts don't lie.
I think both sides can be argued when making a decision based upon research backed facts.
I don't think they were erradicated completely. I think they were still present, the symptoms just weren't showing because of vaccines. I hope that makes sense... Kind of like carrying around strep but not ever showing signs. Then someone with a weakened immune system comes around and bam. They now have strep. Maybe that's a terrible example, and maybe I am wrong. But I don't think they were ever wiped out fully. I think they hung around.
I had a biology teacher back in highschool that had polio when she was a child. She had braces on her legs and eventually had to have a cane for support during that year. She was put into a wheelchair eventually. She has since passed but I always remember her stories of her childhood. Vividly. I wouldn't wish that upon any child. especially my own. She was raised Menonite and eventually married a Pentocoastal Man. Maybe religion played a role in why she was never vaccinated. I never thought to ask. I have an uncle that also had polio that has since passed. He too had braces on his legs. A girl I grew up with had braces on her legs because of Polio as well. She is now grown with a family of her own.
I am aware of epidemics and their lasting effects on people and their health. I too know people who have been affected.
I think anyone with a computer can find facts to support your statement, NJJ. But I also think that facts to support my statements, that are from non-biased sources could also be found.   | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This remark:
"I don't think they were erradicated completely. I think they were still present, the symptoms just weren't showing because of vaccines. I hope that makes sense.."
No....it doesn't make sense. Just because you find stuff on the Internet, and call it "research" and claim to have sources of information doesn't mean your sources are legitimate. If you make a remark like this from some source you found on the Internet, I suggest you develop a new data base and find new resources. The above comment is just whacked.
Prior to the MMR, we used to see about 500,000 cases of measles per year in the U.S. In 1920, about 8,000 people died from measles.
In recent years, the incidence has ranged between a few hundred to as few as 20 cases per year. From 2002-2015 there was just one death in the U.S. From measles. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Bear - 2017-04-24 2:25 PM This remark: "I don't think they were erradicated completely. I think they were still present, the symptoms just weren't showing because of vaccines. I hope that makes sense.." No....it doesn't make sense. Just because you find stuff on the Internet, and call it "research" and claim to have sources of information doesn't mean your sources are legitimate. If you make a remark like this from some source you found on the Internet, I suggest you develop a new data base and find new resources. The above comment is just whacked. Prior to the MMR, we used to see about 500,000 cases of measles per year in the U.S. In 1920, about 8,000 people died from measles. In recent years, the incidence has ranged between a few hundred to as few as 20 cases per year. From 2002-2015 there was just one death in the U.S. From measles. Bear. I did not make this statement based off anything I found on the internet. This is why I said "I think". I was simply saying that I don't think they went away completely as I had taken NJJ's comment to mean that they had. I was simply agreeing that they were still present and that Vaccines didn't completely wipe them out to nothing. This is why they made a comback when vaccines were not being used as often as they had been. I guess I didn't explain myself very well... 
ETA: I did not mean that the Vaccines didn't work for the ones vaccinated. Research and numbers show that they did. I am not saying those facts are wrong. Maybe that is what you thought i meant? I agree, that thought process is foolish. I just meant that I would think it still hung around or that people still carried it in their system if they were exposed and those that did not get vaccinated were infected and showed symptoms.That's what I meant by it not getting completely wiped out. Bad use of wordage I guess...
Edited by IRunOnFaith 2017-04-24 2:58 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| cheryl makofka - 2017-04-20 6:14 PM
IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 4:22 PM
GLP - 2017-04-20 12:12 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-20 9:07 AM Oh boy.... I'll just leave this here. " (b) Unavoidable adverse side effects; warnings
(1) No vaccine manufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine after October 1, 1988, if the injury or death resulted from side effects that were unavoidable even though the vaccine was properly prepared and was accompanied by proper directions and warnings. "
I had my little one at home to avoid all the Vaccines, Vitamin K shot, and other immune dibilitating shots and formulas all babies recieve in order to cover doctors butts when babies are born... Doctors don't give your baby Vaccines and shots to help them when they are first born. They give them things so that if anything happens to the baby they can say they vaccinated, shot up, etc and exhausted all possible "preventative measures" to ensure your baby was "Healthy".
Sure, I am giving my child some vaccines. My Child's doctor has a very great approach: If anything is wrong she gives you three routes of treatment: traditional, hollistic, and a combination of the two. She's great and I fully trust her judgement. It is my right to choose what my child gets and when she gets it and how exactly it's administered. And you can bet it's not on the same schedule as the Pharm companies.
For example here is what was given Pre Liability Release and what was given Post Liability Release. Parents have the right to choose. If you feel your child needs a different schedule, make one. If you feel your child needs no Vaccines, don't give them. If you feel your child needs all the vaccines listed, give them. They aren't mandatory. I don't think it's fair to say what is right for your child is right for everyone's child. Good lord, that list is insane! I was always the mom who wouldn't get the vaccines until they set a suspension date at school. My daughter would get high temperatures a day or so after her vaccines, not just 100 degrees but 104. I would call the doctor in a panic at night when they came on, he would tell me to wipe her down with a tepid wash cloth and give her tylenol and by the next morning when he opened his office, she would have no fever. He couldn't explain it, then when she was 6 months old she had a seizure, thankfully not a grand mal, but scarey none the less and had a couple a year thereafter, some were grand mal. Never found out why. This lead me to really space out her vaccines. The doctor agreed with me. I did the same for my son and he never had any problems. I don't know if the vaccines had anything to do with her fevers, but they didn't start until she started her vaccines at 2 months. My kids were vaccinated but only the bare minimum. They were outdoor ranch kids and were always healthier than their classmates. I honestly don't know who to believe. It's hard to trust pharmacy companies, but there is no question the polio and small pox vaccines worked for most people.
While looking for a doctor for my little one after she was born, I was told by three different doctors that they refused to see my child.
The first ask me what hospital she was born at and I replied that she was born at home. The lady got very quiet and replied: "We don't really have an opening for people like you..." And hung up on me. I cried. 2 days post-aprtum I'm sure it was horomones (Or lack there of) but It really made me feel like a bad Mum.
The second scheduled me for an appointment, even after hearing she was born at home, and when I asked her if they were comfortable with not following the recomended schedule she also got very quiet and said: "Ma'am, either you follow the schedule to a 'T' or we can't help you..." I canceled the appointment...
The third laughed at me when I asked about changing the schedule or starting the vaccines later. She laughed and then got quiet and said: "Oh, you're serious?" I hung up on her...
I was very fortunate to find my pediatrician. She accepts no insurance and is cash pay only. She takes maybe 20 newborns a year to see through the age of 18. She's refered to as the Hippie Doctor in town. I get laughed at by people for taking her to a "quack". But I truly believe that she has my child's best interest at heart. She isn't afraid to tell me non biased consequences of herbal or hollistic remedies as well as traditional medicine side effects. She is by far the biggest blessing I could have found.
Texas allows you to exempt yourself or child from all vaccines for any reason. Her first Daycare tried to tell me that I couldn't bring her because she was contagious. People there were truly scared of her. But If your child received the vaccine, wouldn't my child be the only one "sick" if she didn't get a vaccine? I mean, vaccines are "preventative" according to your doctor correct? lol sorry, just being sarcastic now. Either way, to each their own. No need to judge other moms for believing different things.
The only problem with your reasoning is not all kids can be vaccinated, and by you sending your unvaccinated child to school increases the risk of a immunocompromised, cancer riddled kid dying of a vaccine preventable disease cause you sent your child to school with a runny nose when in actuality it was a vaccine preventable disease.
Along with your correct thoughts, Bear, don't forget that there are individuals who simply don't react with a vaccine, non-responsive individuals - thus they also rely upon herd immunity and would be exposed during school hours to the above mentioned children. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| It will be Interesting to see what happens in the next few years. In Alberta there has already been a court case where the courts found a family guilty of failing to provide the necessities of life for their child. The child was unvaccinated, the family treated with homeopathic remedies, the child died of bacterial meningitis. | |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| cheryl makofka - 2017-04-24 3:35 PM It will be Interesting to see what happens in the next few years. In Alberta there has already been a court case where the courts found a family guilty of failing to provide the necessities of life for their child. The child was unvaccinated, the family treated with homeopathic remedies, the child died of bacterial meningitis.
That goes beyond a fear or caution of vaccinating. There are parents in the US who refuse to use doctors and have let their children die from very treatable conditions. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | rodeomom3 - 2017-04-24 3:44 PM cheryl makofka - 2017-04-24 3:35 PM It will be Interesting to see what happens in the next few years. In Alberta there has already been a court case where the courts found a family guilty of failing to provide the necessities of life for their child. The child was unvaccinated, the family treated with homeopathic remedies, the child died of bacterial meningitis. That goes beyond a fear or caution of vaccinating. There are parents in the US who refuse to use doctors and have let their children die from very treatable conditions.
This is sad, but very true... | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cheryl makofka - 2017-04-24 3:35 PM
It will be Interesting to see what happens in the next few years. In Alberta there has already been a court case where the courts found a family guilty of failing to provide the necessities of life for their child. The child was unvaccinated, the family treated with homeopathic remedies, the child died of bacterial meningitis.
I agree. In my opinion, a parent should not be forced to give their kids a vaccine.
I will say that I am in favor of making a certain minimum amount of vaccinations mandatory before a child is allowed into a public school.
Those parents still have two options, should they choose not to vaccinate:
1.) Home school.
2.) find a private school. Maybe the anti-vaxxers can start their own private schools.
In my opinion, if, for some reason, they can't find a private school or home school, they can just stay home. The world needs fast food workers. | |
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