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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
  
Location: California | Lameness exam and x-rays this past Thursday revealed navicular changes in my mare's front left foot, coffin bone changes in the front right, and a bone spur starting on the left stifle. She was a 5/5 lame on the left stifle and protested the whole time it was being flexed. I had absolutely NO clue my mare was in this much pain. I have a video of her AWESOME (but slow and I now know why) run the Saturday before! She never limped or did anything. I thought I was finally on the uphill of getting her sound.
So she is already off of all processed grains and is fed alfalfa pellets, Renew Gold, just started her on THE Muscle Mass with ulcer prevent x2, joint/inflammation, and GluChon. They either have a grass hay round bale or grazing and we just started tossing 1 large flake of alfalfa once a day. She was started on THE MM before the barrel race. However, do I need to switch her to something stronger and more aggressive? Can I add a joint supplement to it or is that over kill?
Are the PHT stifle wraps really worth it? Is Equibone really worth it? I have read thread after thread and tried to do as much research as possible but I'm feeling horribly overwhelmed right now :(
Farrier will be implementing the vets recommended shoe job and 3 weeks after we will reevaluate and be doing injections if still necessary. So I do have a plan in place. It's everything else I'm overwhelmed with. I won't be breeding her this year as planned since my main goal is to get her out of pain. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
 
| So you did not inject? I would start Adequan immediately. And probably previcox to help with the pain and inflammation. I'm not familiar with the stifle spur, but I will say that the front feet can be a huge battle to get them feeling well and staying that way. Definitely do the shoeing changes, and if what you try doesn't work then try something else until you figure out what makes your horse comfortable. It's been years since I've managed one with front foot issues (for competition) but I really liked using magnets to increase blood flow. If broodmare is your ultimate goal for the mare, then I would get her comfortable and make her a broodmare. When I retired my mare my vet told me he could continue injecting, but if I wanted to raise foals out of her I should just retire her to that. He was worried continued riding would leave her so crippled she wouldn't be comfortable carrying. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| First off, I am sorry you're going through this...
Secondly, as a person with a horse with bad feet. I would get her feet right first before changing too much. Sometimes sore feet can make the rest of them a wreck and if you change too many things, you might not know whats working.
Good luck |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | No we haven't injected yet. Vet wants to get the angles of her feet corrected and wait 3 weeks and reevaluate. We are doing a 3in wedge pad and he wants a natural balance shoe to knock her break over back even further. So the vet side of things plan is in place.
My ultimate goal is to get her comfortable and if she can go back to running occasionally then great, if not then so be it. I had planned on breeding her this year but not really making a broodmare out of her per say. Already had a breeding paid for from a stallion auction. Life prevented me from breeding her when I wanted to and now I'm greatful for it!
I've had so many people recommend Equibone but at $200+ for the bag and being a natural skeptic it's not an easy decision.... there are so MANY options to try that I'm overwhelmed.
ETA: Her front feet issues have been an ongoing issue for many years. She's seen a multitude of vets over the years and wasn't till early 2016 that we started getting real answers. The navicular changes and coffin bone changes happened sometime after last spring as they weren't there in her last x rays.
Edited by Serenity06 2017-04-22 10:16 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Serenity06 - 2017-04-22 10:11 PM
No we haven't injected yet. Vet wants to get the angles of her feet corrected and wait 3 weeks and reevaluate. We are doing a 3in wedge pad and he wants a natural balance shoe to knock her break over back even further. So the vet side of things plan is in place.
My ultimate goal is to get her comfortable and if she can go back to running occasionally then great, if not then so be it. I had planned on breeding her this year but not really making a broodmare out of her per say. Already had a breeding paid for from a stallion auction. Life prevented me from breeding her when I wanted to and now I'm greatful for it!
I've had so many people recommend Equibone but at $200+ for the bag and being a natural skeptic it's not an easy decision.... there are so MANY options to try that I'm overwhelmed.
Steph, do your homework and get the advice from the knowledgeable folks on here, and you (and vet and farrier) will figure out what's best for your girl  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | Chandler's Mom - 2017-04-22 9:16 PM
Serenity06 - 2017-04-22 10:11 PM
No we haven't injected yet. Vet wants to get the angles of her feet corrected and wait 3 weeks and reevaluate. We are doing a 3in wedge pad and he wants a natural balance shoe to knock her break over back even further. So the vet side of things plan is in place.
My ultimate goal is to get her comfortable and if she can go back to running occasionally then great, if not then so be it. I had planned on breeding her this year but not really making a broodmare out of her per say. Already had a breeding paid for from a stallion auction. Life prevented me from breeding her when I wanted to and now I'm greatful for it!
I've had so many people recommend Equibone but at $200+ for the bag and being a natural skeptic it's not an easy decision.... there are so MANY options to try that I'm overwhelmed.
Steph, do your homework and get the advice from the knowledgeable folks on here, and you (and vet and farrier ) will figure out what's best for your girl
That's the plan! Ever since the vet visit I have been reading every single thread possible and researching every angle. I want to go back to just having to worry about her feet! So many different options and opinions! |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Several years ago my horse shoer mentioned equibone when I was having issues (at least I'm pretty sure that was the product!). He said from his experience and what he'd heard, it either worked or it didn't. And you'd just have to give it a try to see. I didn't feel like spending money on a product that may or may not help my horse, so I chose other treatment options.
I would think that since it's such a recent change, maybe you're early enough to make some shoeing changes and take care of the pain. My experience has been that once you start injecting it's just a matter of time before they are no longer effective and the horse becomes too uncomfortable to be ridden much. I have not had any kind of luck with front foot issues, but often see people on here saying that shoeing changes got their horse back to normal, so I'm hoping that this is the situation for you. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | Jenbabe - 2017-04-22 9:34 PM
Several years ago my horse shoer mentioned equibone when I was having issues (at least I'm pretty sure that was the product!). He said from his experience and what he'd heard, it either worked or it didn't. And you'd just have to give it a try to see. I didn't feel like spending money on a product that may or may not help my horse, so I chose other treatment options.
I would think that since it's such a recent change, maybe you're early enough to make some shoeing changes and take care of the pain. My experience has been that once you start injecting it's just a matter of time before they are no longer effective and the horse becomes too uncomfortable to be ridden much. I have not had any kind of luck with front foot issues, but often see people on here saying that shoeing changes got their horse back to normal, so I'm hoping that this is the situation for you.
That's my thoughts exactly honestly. I really don't want to sink over $200 on something that "may" work. Yet how do I know if I don't try? I hate these decisions. Lol. No matter what I'll be following my vets plan, anything else I do on my end with be in addition to that. I also think that's my vets point of view on seeing what fixing her feet can achieve. He's hoping it will at least ease the pain there and HOPEFULLY on the stifle but only time will tell.
I had her on Actiflex years ago but that was before all the lameness issues. I've been debating puthing her back on it but didn't know if that was over kill with what she's getting now or what... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| You didn't inject ANY of the issues you listed??? Stifle? Injecting would have brought pain relief if that was your goal. We have a mare that's gets her coffins injected 2-3 x a year depending on use. She has synovitis capsulitis which is inflammation basically but no bony changes. Monthly Pentosan which is better than Adequan IMO. There's also osphos available now. If you're looking for a neutraceutical to try for pain management add a T of turmeric daily. You can buy it I'm bulk online and its cheap. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | iloveequine40 - 2017-04-23 5:56 AM
You didn't inject ANY of the issues you listed??? Stifle? Injecting would have brought pain relief if that was your goal. We have a mare that's gets her coffins injected 2-3 x a year depending on use. She has synovitis capsulitis which is inflammation basically but no bony changes. Monthly Pentosan which is better than Adequan IMO. There's also osphos available now. If you're looking for a neutraceutical to try for pain management add a T of turmeric daily. You can buy it I'm bulk online and its cheap.
Like I said, at this vet c is it no that vet did not want to inject right away. He wants the angles of her feet fixed first. Previously she had her navicular bursas injected bur that was before the changes in her feet. This vet is shocked the last 2 vets did not advise adding in a wedge pad last year based on her x-rays. If they had the coffin bone changes most likely would not have happened. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I do agree with the previous poster that I would have gone ahead and injected. That is going to get the inflammation out. Did they put her on an anti-inflammatory? I like previcox the best for long-term use because it's not as hard on the stomach. I would have to disagree with the Osphos at this point until I could do more research. There has been a lot of talk about it creating bone issues, even in the future it can cause these issues with foals that are raised out of a mare that has been given Osphos. I haven't done my research to see if this is true or not, but definitely something I'd look closely at before giving, especially to a mare.
Here's the thing, you're going to get so many opinions and suggestions. Don't feel like you have to try everything that is suggested. If you are using a good lameness vet and trust their opinion, then I would go with that. I think it's great that you're asking for help so you have a huge amount of ideas. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | Jenbabe - 2017-04-23 8:30 AM
I do agree with the previous poster that I would have gone ahead and injected. That is going to get the inflammation out. Did they put her on an anti-inflammatory? I like previcox the best for long-term use because it's not as hard on the stomach. I would have to disagree with the Osphos at this point until I could do more research. There has been a lot of talk about it creating bone issues, even in the future it can cause these issues with foals that are raised out of a mare that has been given Osphos. I haven't done my research to see if this is true or not, but definitely something I'd look closely at before giving, especially to a mare.
Here's the thing, you're going to get so many opinions and suggestions. Don't feel like you have to try everything that is suggested. If you are using a good lameness vet and trust their opinion, then I would go with that. I think it's great that you're asking for help so you have a huge amount of ideas.
The only reason we didn't inject right now is because the vet wants her feet angles corrected first or he said he'd just be wasting my money because the parallel palmer angles would just prevent the injections from doing their job correctly. He didn't give me anything but I already have previously on hand and can always call in and have him prescribe some. |
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Duct Tape Bikini Girl
Posts: 2554
| Sorry you're going through this. I'd like to say Back on Track bell boots have helped my mare with navicular issues. I just leave them on overnight. Do you have a farrier/DVM? I use one and it's worth the price. Noticed you're in Texas too. |
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 It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | She was 5/5 lame on the left hind limb? As in non weight bearing? I am hoping I am just reading that wrong, because that changes things quite a bit. AAEP lameness grading scale which is what most veterinarians use starts at a 1 (very mildly off on the limb) all the way to 5 (non weight bearing). Generally most horses who have a significant lameness but aren't crippled fall into the grade 3 category.
How lame was she in the front end? Did your vet do any blocking on her to assess exactly where the lameness was coming from? Did your vet block the hind end lameness to the stifle?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | luckyjo - 2017-04-23 7:11 PM
Sorry you're going through this. I'd like to say Back on Track bell boots have helped my mare with navicular issues. I just leave them on overnight. Do you have a farrier/DVM? I use one and it's worth the price. Noticed you're in Texas too.
I want to get the PHT and BOT bell boots. I'm honestly not sure if there is a farrier/DVM around... My farrier will be working very closely with my vet though. I'm in Wichita Falls.
I'm still very unsure of if I should switch her from the THE Muscle Mass formula she's on to something else or what. So many options and so many opinions on it all! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I want to thank everyone for any bit of advice or story they share! I know not every horse reacts the same to every product or procedure but it is ALL appreciated!
This little mare came to me as a very pregnant, never been touched, and malnourished just turned 2yr old. A month after turning 2 she foaled. The colt sadly didn't make it do to being too premature. It's been a long road with this mare but I wouldn't trade her for the world. I truly feel like I failed her in a way. I plan to do everything in my power to do what she needs! |
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It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | Serenity06 - 2017-04-23 8:34 PM
I'm honestly not sure if there is a farrier/DVM around... My farrier will be working very closely with my vet though. I'm in Wichita Falls.
Sammy Pittman is in Collinsville, TX and he is a very good Farrier/DVM. If you want to look him up on Facebook his page is Innovative Equine Podiatry. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | barrelracingchick16 - 2017-04-23 7:34 PM
She was 5/5 lame on the left hind limb? As in non weight bearing? I am hoping I am just reading that wrong, because that changes things quite a bit. AAEP lameness grading scale which is what most veterinarians use starts at a 1 (very mildly off on the limb) all the way to 5 (non weight bearing). Generally most horses who have a significant lameness but aren't crippled fall into the grade 3 category.
How lame was she in the front end? Did your vet do any blocking on her to assess exactly where the lameness was coming from? Did your vet block the hind end lameness to the stifle?
Good catch! She was weight bearing on the trot off after he flexed the left stifle but barely. After the initial trot off you could tell she was very uncomfortable for a while. The front end she was 2/5 lame. If you block the front feet she will move off fine on them so we know her front end is her feet. We didn't block the stifle yet. I didn't have a real appointment so they fit her in at the very end of a crazy day. She'll have a more in depth appointment after she sees the farrier and we get her front feet angles corrected. So we may run into more issues then and he made sure I was fully aware of that. For now we have the x-rays of her front feet and both stifles showing those issues. |
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It Goes On
Posts: 2262
Location: Muskogee, OK | Serenity06 - 2017-04-23 8:53 PM
barrelracingchick16 - 2017-04-23 7:34 PM
She was 5/5 lame on the left hind limb? As in non weight bearing? I am hoping I am just reading that wrong, because that changes things quite a bit. AAEP lameness grading scale which is what most veterinarians use starts at a 1 (very mildly off on the limb) all the way to 5 (non weight bearing). Generally most horses who have a significant lameness but aren't crippled fall into the grade 3 category.
How lame was she in the front end? Did your vet do any blocking on her to assess exactly where the lameness was coming from? Did your vet block the hind end lameness to the stifle?
Good catch! She was weight bearing on the trot off after he flexed the left stifle but barely. After the initial trot off you could tell she was very uncomfortable for a while. The front end she was 2/5 lame. If you block the front feet she will move off fine on them so we know her front end is her feet. We didn't block the stifle yet. I didn't have a real appointment so they fit her in at the very end of a crazy day. She'll have a more in depth appointment after she sees the farrier and we get her front feet angles corrected. So we may run into more issues then and he made sure I was fully aware of that. For now we have the x-rays of her front feet and both stifles showing those issues.
Interesting...That is good that you guys blocked the front end lameness out to the feet. Once you get her feet fixed up and re assess the hind limb lameness, I would be very curious about where that blocks out to. Sounds like you are on the right track, keep us posted on how she does! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | barrelracingchick16 - 2017-04-23 8:01 PM
Serenity06 - 2017-04-23 8:53 PM
barrelracingchick16 - 2017-04-23 7:34 PM
She was 5/5 lame on the left hind limb? As in non weight bearing? I am hoping I am just reading that wrong, because that changes things quite a bit. AAEP lameness grading scale which is what most veterinarians use starts at a 1 (very mildly off on the limb) all the way to 5 (non weight bearing). Generally most horses who have a significant lameness but aren't crippled fall into the grade 3 category.
How lame was she in the front end? Did your vet do any blocking on her to assess exactly where the lameness was coming from? Did your vet block the hind end lameness to the stifle?
Good catch! She was weight bearing on the trot off after he flexed the left stifle but barely. After the initial trot off you could tell she was very uncomfortable for a while. The front end she was 2/5 lame. If you block the front feet she will move off fine on them so we know her front end is her feet. We didn't block the stifle yet. I didn't have a real appointment so they fit her in at the very end of a crazy day. She'll have a more in depth appointment after she sees the farrier and we get her front feet angles corrected. So we may run into more issues then and he made sure I was fully aware of that. For now we have the x-rays of her front feet and both stifles showing those issues.
Interesting...That is good that you guys blocked the front end lameness out to the feet. Once you get her feet fixed up and re assess the hind limb lameness, I would be very curious about where that blocks out to. Sounds like you are on the right track, keep us posted on how she does!
I will definitely keep everyone updated! Honestly, I've been through so many vets with this mare. Had 2 vets tell me she was sound last spring. She's been pretty much off for the last year or a little more because of her front feet off and on lameness. Had the 2 most recent vets told me her parallel palmer angles needed fixed we may have avoided some of the pain she is in now. Of course that's all speculation. The irony is I've been hauling all over to vets shelling out tons of money all because the farrier I had at the start of all this told me the local vet wasn't knowledgeable enough on lameness issues. Used the local vet this last time and he zoned right in on what he thought her problem areas were and that's what flexed to be the bigger issues.
The way he explained everything and his plan made me feel a huge wave of relief. I mean at least I have some solid answers now and goals. While he's hopeful we can get it under control he made sure that I understood that we may run in to more issues. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Serenity06 - 2017-04-23 9:17 PM
barrelracingchick16 - 2017-04-23 8:01 PM
Serenity06 - 2017-04-23 8:53 PM
barrelracingchick16 - 2017-04-23 7:34 PM
She was 5/5 lame on the left hind limb? As in non weight bearing? I am hoping I am just reading that wrong, because that changes things quite a bit. AAEP lameness grading scale which is what most veterinarians use starts at a 1 (very mildly off on the limb) all the way to 5 (non weight bearing). Generally most horses who have a significant lameness but aren't crippled fall into the grade 3 category.
How lame was she in the front end? Did your vet do any blocking on her to assess exactly where the lameness was coming from? Did your vet block the hind end lameness to the stifle?
Good catch! She was weight bearing on the trot off after he flexed the left stifle but barely. After the initial trot off you could tell she was very uncomfortable for a while. The front end she was 2/5 lame. If you block the front feet she will move off fine on them so we know her front end is her feet. We didn't block the stifle yet. I didn't have a real appointment so they fit her in at the very end of a crazy day. She'll have a more in depth appointment after she sees the farrier and we get her front feet angles corrected. So we may run into more issues then and he made sure I was fully aware of that. For now we have the x-rays of her front feet and both stifles showing those issues.
Interesting...That is good that you guys blocked the front end lameness out to the feet. Once you get her feet fixed up and re assess the hind limb lameness, I would be very curious about where that blocks out to. Sounds like you are on the right track, keep us posted on how she does!
I will definitely keep everyone updated! Honestly, I've been through so many vets with this mare. Had 2 vets tell me she was sound last spring. She's been pretty much off for the last year or a little more because of her front feet off and on lameness. Had the 2 most recent vets told me her parallel palmer angles needed fixed we may have avoided some of the pain she is in now. Of course that's all speculation. The irony is I've been hauling all over to vets shelling out tons of money all because the farrier I had at the start of all this told me the local vet wasn't knowledgeable enough on lameness issues. Used the local vet this last time and he zoned right in on what he thought her problem areas were and that's what flexed to be the bigger issues.
The way he explained everything and his plan made me feel a huge wave of relief. I mean at least I have some solid answers now and goals. While he's hopeful we can get it under control he made sure that I understood that we may run in to more issues.
Sounds like you've got a plan now with your vet and farrier. . . Now for my "Momma" mode---you've done nothing to let her down. Think where she would be if it wasn't for you. . . . Much love and good wishes for y'all |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | Chandler's Mom - 2017-04-23 9:06 PM
Serenity06 - 2017-04-23 9:17 PM
barrelracingchick16 - 2017-04-23 8:01 PM
Serenity06 - 2017-04-23 8:53 PM
barrelracingchick16 - 2017-04-23 7:34 PM
She was 5/5 lame on the left hind limb? As in non weight bearing? I am hoping I am just reading that wrong, because that changes things quite a bit. AAEP lameness grading scale which is what most veterinarians use starts at a 1 (very mildly off on the limb) all the way to 5 (non weight bearing). Generally most horses who have a significant lameness but aren't crippled fall into the grade 3 category.
How lame was she in the front end? Did your vet do any blocking on her to assess exactly where the lameness was coming from? Did your vet block the hind end lameness to the stifle?
Good catch! She was weight bearing on the trot off after he flexed the left stifle but barely. After the initial trot off you could tell she was very uncomfortable for a while. The front end she was 2/5 lame. If you block the front feet she will move off fine on them so we know her front end is her feet. We didn't block the stifle yet. I didn't have a real appointment so they fit her in at the very end of a crazy day. She'll have a more in depth appointment after she sees the farrier and we get her front feet angles corrected. So we may run into more issues then and he made sure I was fully aware of that. For now we have the x-rays of her front feet and both stifles showing those issues.
Interesting...That is good that you guys blocked the front end lameness out to the feet. Once you get her feet fixed up and re assess the hind limb lameness, I would be very curious about where that blocks out to. Sounds like you are on the right track, keep us posted on how she does!
I will definitely keep everyone updated! Honestly, I've been through so many vets with this mare. Had 2 vets tell me she was sound last spring. She's been pretty much off for the last year or a little more because of her front feet off and on lameness. Had the 2 most recent vets told me her parallel palmer angles needed fixed we may have avoided some of the pain she is in now. Of course that's all speculation. The irony is I've been hauling all over to vets shelling out tons of money all because the farrier I had at the start of all this told me the local vet wasn't knowledgeable enough on lameness issues. Used the local vet this last time and he zoned right in on what he thought her problem areas were and that's what flexed to be the bigger issues.
The way he explained everything and his plan made me feel a huge wave of relief. I mean at least I have some solid answers now and goals. While he's hopeful we can get it under control he made sure that I understood that we may run in to more issues.
Sounds like you've got a plan now with your vet and farrier. . . Now for my "Momma" mode---you've done nothing to let her down. Think where she would be if it wasn't for you. . . . Much love and good wishes for y'all
That's just how it feels right now. Lol. I just pray we can get her comfortable at least. Today all the horses got baths and after I put Ren back in the pasture she kept trying to dart back out of the gate anytime someone went through. She did NOT want put away and hung her head when I saddled Ace! You can't tell me that mare is dumb. Lol |
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I need some pain management advice!