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Location: Washington State | I have a 6 year old mare that I've started very slowly since she was 3. She was my project through college and only recently have I had the funds to haul her to any races. She's been doing great, I haven't asked for much speed or breezed her much yet. I have different cues for loping and "running". Smooching and then "Shh"ing.
My problem is she can't seem to slowly lope, it's always so charge-y. She will collect for me and work off her hind-end but she won't slow it down. I've tried just loping around the arena on a loose rein, sitting back and letting her have the opportunity to slow down on her own, she never slowed and I didn't want her to keel over from exhaustion. I've tried loping the arena on a loose rein and then sitting down and asking for random small circles, never slowed down. I've done the loopty-doos exercise from Heather Smith's 50 first barrel exercises, she still won't slow down and we are a train wreck.
I know barrel racing is all about speed, but I want to be able to practice on a nice lope and work on moving her shoulders up and over without the anxiety of speed. She's a short (14.2) Peptoboonsmal granddaughter, so definitely more cutting bred than barrels.
Any suggestions to slow her down? |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
   
| Two suggestions: relax your legs--the number one cause. Make very small circles. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
| You may also try; loping a few strides, stop, back 4 strides, loping a few strides, stop, back a few strides, etc...don't crank her to a stop and jam her backwards...everything slow and easy and see if you can't get her (and you) to relax and back off the bit... |
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Location: Washington State | Great, thanks! I'll try that today. I've tried multiple transitions too... Lope a few strides, trot a few strides, lope, etc. to try and alleviate some of her anxiety with loping so fast. I'll try stopping and backing today. |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I can't guarantee it will work, but it worked on my chargy horse.
I spent a week where I loped him every single day for at least 30 minutes straight. I set a timer and he didn't get to stop until that timer went off. The first two days, he never slowed down. My arms were dead by the time we were done. The third day he relaxed his lope about 15 minutes in. By the 4th day, he loped off on a loose rein.
The idea behind it is not to tire them. It's to get them thinking "were loping and I have no idea when we are going to stop so maybe I should go slow". Kind of like how when your horse is bad at standing tied, you tie them up a lot. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
Location: London Ontario | livexlovexrodeo - 2017-05-03 1:11 PM
I can't guarantee it will work, but it worked on my chargy horse.
I spent a week where I loped him every single day for at least 30 minutes straight. I set a timer and he didn't get to stop until that timer went off. The first two days, he never slowed down. My arms were dead by the time we were done. The third day he relaxed his lope about 15 minutes in. By the 4th day, he loped off on a loose rein.
The idea behind it is not to tire them. It's to get them thinking "were loping and I have no idea when we are going to stop so maybe I should go slow". Kind of like how when your horse is bad at standing tied, you tie them up a lot.
I agree with the above - I took my 5yr colt to a working cowhorse clinic - we rode for a solid 4 hours straight in the morning, had a 30 min break for lunch then repeated that in the afternoon. I was sore and tired but she was more tired. That was a big turning point in her life... after that she hasnt done a "colty" thing since. If you can get to a clinic like that - do it. Or again go out and lope for as long as possible. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1074
| Really sit on your pockets and put weight in your stirrups. Heels down, toes up. One rider in my family naturally rides further forward. When she rides our two horses that have a chargy lope, they go so fast. She fights them the entire ride. A different family member can get on the same two horses and she sits more on her pockets and adds weight to her stirrups. Both horses relax and throttle down for her. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Ed Wright had me do small figure 8's on my chargy mare, worked oh so much better than circles and a roll back which only seemed to create anxiety with her. He told me once she she started to relax to go ahead and lope a couple circles to the left, then if she felt like she was gaining momentum, switch directions and sizes of circles, etc. He had me start with just trotting about 8 foot circles, if she got chargy there, make them smaller, do not pull on her face, make it smaller and or change direction. |
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Location: Washington State | barrelrider - 2017-05-03 12:37 PM
Really sit on your pockets and put weight in your stirrups. Heels down, toes up. One rider in my family naturally rides further forward. When she rides our two horses that have a chargy lope, they go so fast. She fights them the entire ride. A different family member can get on the same two horses and she sits more on her pockets and adds weight to her stirrups. Both horses relax and throttle down for her.
I've sat as far back as I possibly can in the saddle and pushed weight in my stirrups with a loose rein, and it didn't slow her down. If I really exaggerated sitting deep in my saddle she took it as a cue to transition to a trot, so then I'm fighting sitting back enough while encouraging her to maintain a lope. I don't want her to become desensitized to rating when I sit deep in the saddle. |
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Location: Washington State | run n rate - 2017-05-03 1:42 PM
Ed Wright had me do small figure 8's on my chargy mare, worked oh so much better than circles and a roll back which only seemed to create anxiety with her. He told me once she she started to relax to go ahead and lope a couple circles to the left, then if she felt like she was gaining momentum, switch directions and sizes of circles, etc. He had me start with just trotting about 8 foot circles, if she got chargy there, make them smaller, do not pull on her face, make it smaller and or change direction.
What would you do for lead transitions in your figure eights? Flying or simple changes? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
| I have a 3 year old like this. He is relaxed but them long legs are taking heaping strides. He is doing better but the first chance I get hes going on the longest trail ride I can get him on. At least 10 or 15 miles. It changes their whole outlook on life. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Can't offer any advice but I'd start two-a-days if you can manage it.
As long as you don't think she's hurting.
Can you ask for a lope and break her into a trot everytime she gains momentum? Over and over and over? |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
| My mare does this too. Every time she would transition into a chargey lope, I would make her lope tight circles. Now, they will have to slow down a little bit when you make them lope these tight circles or else they won't be able to keep up with themselves. But WAIT until you feel her willingly slow down to the speed you want without you asking her to! Then make her finish that circle, and take her straight again, I promise she will charge again. Then just repeat the same process until she lopes one or two laps at the speed you want her to go.
You will have to do this a couple of times, it won't happen automatically because then it would just be too darn easy I guess! You could try stopping and going too, but I just feel that it takes too long, and too many things are going on. I just want to keep one gait the whole time, and teach my horse to go my speed, not theirs.
If I need to clarify anything, let me know. Good luck:) |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| let your horse lope whatever pace she wants to but lope for long periods of time. She will slow down within a few days. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I know people use a variety of methods for this.
Lots of gait transitions, or half-halts as someone else mentioned (come to stop slowly and then back up though they don't generally back up in English) I think is one way to deal with it. It helps in some cases. Its not generally a bad idea to work on gait transitions to have them paying attention to you but don't drill and drill on it.
Making them run for a long period of time for a few days has been our most successful method, generally because we are not asking for it. Yes the first time they may go a long time. But get on and do it again until they figure out you are not asking them to just plow on. Eventually they will settle into a nice lope at first because they really don't want to be that tired.
And yes a wet saddle blanket on a long ride also helps. My dad always talks about how this completely changed the temperament of his old roping mare, going on her first truly long cattle drive, and settled her down. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | smatty - 2017-05-04 2:00 PM
run n rate - 2017-05-03 1:42 PM
Ed Wright had me do small figure 8's on my chargy mare, worked oh so much better than circles and a roll back which only seemed to create anxiety with her. He told me once she she started to relax to go ahead and lope a couple circles to the left, then if she felt like she was gaining momentum, switch directions and sizes of circles, etc. He had me start with just trotting about 8 foot circles, if she got chargy there, make them smaller, do not pull on her face, make it smaller and or change direction.
What would you do for lead transitions in your figure eights? Flying or simple changes?
at the trot Ed had me do a deep counter arc thru the middle at first so say I trotted a right hand circle, as I came thru the middle he would have me arc deep left thru the middle for the prep to the left hand circle. Same thing at the lope which then really helped lead to the flying lead change. He also had me find a corner of the arena or pasture or whatever that she was the least chargy in to start my figure 8s in, soft mind, soft body. |
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| If you wear spurs ... take them off .. |
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | One rein stop,with walk trot transitions,add backing and full circle before next one rein stop.do for a week without lopeing. He'll be so set into listening to you he'll quit that crap. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Start teaching speed control. When they get above the speed you want set them down and go the other direction. You might be setting them down a lot to begin with but eventually they learn speed control, same method you use for a cold backed bucker. Stay OUT OF THEIR MOUTH otherwise! DO NOT HOLD them.
I'm also going to say with her breeding your going to have to ride her. Those cowponies are smarter and more stubborn like blue heelers of the horse world. To me they require a different hand than someone like me who mostly gets along with straight track bred horses. |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | astreakinchic - 2017-05-06 8:31 AM Start teaching speed control. When they get above the speed you want set them down and go the other direction. You might be setting them down a lot to begin with but eventually they learn speed control, same method you use for a cold backed bucker. Stay OUT OF THEIR MOUTH otherwise! DO NOT HOLD them. I'm also going to say with her breeding your going to have to ride her. Those cowponies are smarter and more stubborn like blue heelers of the horse world. To me they require a different hand than someone like me who mostly gets along with straight track bred horses.
"Stay OUT OF THEIR MOUTH otherwise! DO NOT HOLD them"...exactly. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| livexlovexrodeo - 2017-05-03 12:11 PM
I can't guarantee it will work, but it worked on my chargy horse.
I spent a week where I loped him every single day for at least 30 minutes straight. I set a timer and he didn't get to stop until that timer went off. The first two days, he never slowed down. My arms were dead by the time we were done. The third day he relaxed his lope about 15 minutes in. By the 4th day, he loped off on a loose rein.
The idea behind it is not to tire them. It's to get them thinking "were loping and I have no idea when we are going to stop so maybe I should go slow". Kind of like how when your horse is bad at standing tied, you tie them up a lot.
Tired horses are good horses - kind of like dogs, kids, and husbands (jk on that last one, but he does get cantankerous when he doesn't have a honey-do list).
For body position I have realized a ton about softening my seat and lower back through yoga practice. It was like a light bulb moment when I truely realized how much tension I was carrying in my lower back. Developing a self awareness when we ride is one of the toughest things, IMO. It's hard to relax yourself on a chargey horse, but it may be one of the more critical parts, especially on young or green horses whose flight instinct is more primed - if you are tense they wonder why and what is going to come get then.
I like a long lope to start to take the edge off and then loping circles, spirals, figure 8's, serpentines, etc. when they start to relax they can continue moving in the direction of travel. When the tension starts to build again, the direction of travel gets changed until we start to find the softness again. I usually use a ring snaffle and 2 hands, releasing all pressure when they start to relax and soften, but still riding them forward off my leg. I'm not a fan of stops unless they are just plain ignoring me, then I'll sit them down, I want to encourage the forward motion, and when they soften and relax I leave them alone.
Remember going slow is hard - it takes topline and muscle. A lot of horses get chargey because they lack this and rely on momentum to carry them forward. So a handful of strides on day 1 may be all you get. Day 5 may give you a full circle and by ride 30 you're pretty consistent. |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Is she hot when you trot?
I dont like stopping and backing up unless you are going to stand there and let her soak. I find with stopping and backing and the going forward they just launch out of it.
Hows her groundwork? What does she do in the roundpen?
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Transitions help a lot with this, but get really good with half halts and finding the perfect time to ask for the lope too. Hard to explain but once you find the right timing a few times and you get the nice transition, you will start to get a feel for it. It feels different with every horse. Also I noticed that when my mare would charge into the lope I would just let her at first. Then while in the lope I would work on collecting and slowing and when she got right where I wanted her I would let her stop and think about it for a bit. She eventually quieted down her transition. It was not perfect but much improved.
Edited by SloRide 2017-05-05 10:10 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | OhMax - 2017-05-05 1:38 PM livexlovexrodeo - 2017-05-03 12:11 PM I can't guarantee it will work, but it worked on my chargy horse. I spent a week where I loped him every single day for at least 30 minutes straight. I set a timer and he didn't get to stop until that timer went off. The first two days, he never slowed down. My arms were dead by the time we were done. The third day he relaxed his lope about 15 minutes in. By the 4th day, he loped off on a loose rein. The idea behind it is not to tire them. It's to get them thinking "were loping and I have no idea when we are going to stop so maybe I should go slow". Kind of like how when your horse is bad at standing tied, you tie them up a lot. Tired horses are good horses - kind of like dogs, kids, and husbands (jk on that last one, but he does get cantankerous when he doesn't have a honey-do list ). For body position I have realized a ton about softening my seat and lower back through yoga practice. It was like a light bulb moment when I truely realized how much tension I was carrying in my lower back. Developing a self awareness when we ride is one of the toughest things, IMO. It's hard to relax yourself on a chargey horse, but it may be one of the more critical parts, especially on young or green horses whose flight instinct is more primed - if you are tense they wonder why and what is going to come get then. I like a long lope to start to take the edge off and then loping circles, spirals, figure 8's, serpentines, etc. when they start to relax they can continue moving in the direction of travel. When the tension starts to build again, the direction of travel gets changed until we start to find the softness again. I usually use a ring snaffle and 2 hands, releasing all pressure when they start to relax and soften, but still riding them forward off my leg. I'm not a fan of stops unless they are just plain ignoring me, then I'll sit them down, I want to encourage the forward motion, and when they soften and relax I leave them alone. Remember going slow is hard - it takes topline and muscle. A lot of horses get chargey because they lack this and rely on momentum to carry them forward. So a handful of strides on day 1 may be all you get. Day 5 may give you a full circle and by ride 30 you're pretty consistent.
Remember going slow is hard - it takes topline and muscle. A lot of horses get chargey because they lack this and rely on momentum to carry them forward!
This ^^^^^ I agree, OhMax. Weak stifles, hocks, hindquarters, etc., this all contributes to chargey, fast horses. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | The only things I might add to these suggestions is to take them a little "off balance" by tipping their nose one way or the other in straight line work, or to the outside if you are loping circles....basically a counter arc. Another thing would be if they start out at a nice slow lope when you are loping circles and just keep wanting to speed up.....then when that starts to happen, take them into a small counter arc circle - a circle-in-a-circle sort of thing. They quickly learn that getting chargey ends up being harder work. Those are good exercises anyway, even if the horse isn't chargey.
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Location: Washington State | hammer_time - 2017-05-05 3:37 PM
Is she hot when you trot?
I dont like stopping and backing up unless you are going to stand there and let her soak. I find with stopping and backing and the going forward they just launch out of it.
Hows her groundwork? What does she do in the roundpen?
Typically no she's not hot when I trot, when she is I just work on some flexion at the trot and she calms down very quickly when I make her think. She will transition to a walk and woah with just my seat and vocal cue, I've found with her the less I can mess with her face the better. Her groundwork is phenomenal, transitions great and faces towards me in her turns. She's very respectful. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| smatty - 2017-05-07 9:44 AM
hammer_time - 2017-05-05 3:37 PM
Is she hot when you trot?
I dont like stopping and backing up unless you are going to stand there and let her soak. I find with stopping and backing and the going forward they just launch out of it.
Hows her groundwork? What does she do in the roundpen?
Typically no she's not hot when I trot, when she is I just work on some flexion at the trot and she calms down very quickly when I make her think. She will transition to a walk and woah with just my seat and vocal cue, I've found with her the less I can mess with her face the better. Her groundwork is phenomenal, transitions great and faces towards me in her turns. She's very respectful.
What do you mean "faces towards me in her turns"? Could you be asking for too much bend, thus throwing her off balance which could cause her to speed up? That phrase just caught my attention. |
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Location: Washington State | GLP - 2017-05-07 7:53 AM
smatty - 2017-05-07 9:44 AM
hammer_time - 2017-05-05 3:37 PM
Is she hot when you trot?
I dont like stopping and backing up unless you are going to stand there and let her soak. I find with stopping and backing and the going forward they just launch out of it.
Hows her groundwork? What does she do in the roundpen?
Typically no she's not hot when I trot, when she is I just work on some flexion at the trot and she calms down very quickly when I make her think. She will transition to a walk and woah with just my seat and vocal cue, I've found with her the less I can mess with her face the better. Her groundwork is phenomenal, transitions great and faces towards me in her turns. She's very respectful.
What do you mean "faces towards me in her turns"? Could you be asking for too much bend, thus throwing her off balance which could cause her to speed up? That phrase just caught my attention.
In the round pen I meant, not under saddle. When I ask for a change of direction she faces towards me, not swinging her butt towards me. Under saddle I don't ask for much bend at all, I will ask for the lope transition going into a corner and barely pick up the inside rein. She's pretty good with picking up her leads though so I don't always have to ask in to a corner. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| smatty - 2017-05-07 9:57 AM
GLP - 2017-05-07 7:53 AM
smatty - 2017-05-07 9:44 AM
hammer_time - 2017-05-05 3:37 PM
Is she hot when you trot?
I dont like stopping and backing up unless you are going to stand there and let her soak. I find with stopping and backing and the going forward they just launch out of it.
Hows her groundwork? What does she do in the roundpen?
Typically no she's not hot when I trot, when she is I just work on some flexion at the trot and she calms down very quickly when I make her think. She will transition to a walk and woah with just my seat and vocal cue, I've found with her the less I can mess with her face the better. Her groundwork is phenomenal, transitions great and faces towards me in her turns. She's very respectful.
What do you mean "faces towards me in her turns"? Could you be asking for too much bend, thus throwing her off balance which could cause her to speed up? That phrase just caught my attention.
In the round pen I meant, not under saddle. When I ask for a change of direction she faces towards me, not swinging her butt towards me. Under saddle I don't ask for much bend at all, I will ask for the lope transition going into a corner and barely pick up the inside rein. She's pretty good with picking up her leads though so I don't always have to ask in to a corner.
Ah, got cha! |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | Good advice on here..counter arc helps teach "rate" naturally, setting them up for a lope departure and then releasing it without asking for the actual lope helps too, half halts and the change of direction. I know on my little mare loping her till she was tired only helped that day, problem is that with a free runner, chargy horse and loping till they are tired you build a horse that hasn't learned to settle in and lope quietly, you've built a horse with a lot of lung power and if you lope them till they are tired today and tomorrow by the end of the week you have a horse you better pack a lunch and have a few hours to spare to lope down. |
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 I Sell Dreams
Posts: 1654
Location: Freestone TX | I had a daughter of Docs Oak that would rather die at a full out run than ever think of slowing down. I didn't think it was healthy to let her do that until she dropped. I tried stopping her when she'd charge and all she did was anticipate it and start jamming herself into the ground if she felt my body position change at all. She was a fanatic about both: the dead run and the grinding stop and didn't mind doing both of them until she dropped.
I got a tip from an excellent trainer to back her..not a few steps...back her the entire length of the pasture if necessary. And that's what we did. In the beginning, it did take the entire pasture. She would charge and I would set her down easy and then we'd start backing. No rough stuff. Just asking for a nice leisurely back.............forever and ever. About a week of that and I'd taken all the fun out of both the all out dead run and the jamming stop. She stopped doing it. She'd try it again every now and then, but a repeat of the backing exercise would get her mind right again. I really liked this because it took the frustration out of everything for me and her since we were slowing things WAY down in reverse and we'd make our leisurely backward progress to the back of the property. She would relax when in reverse. |
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 Quarter Horse HIstorian
Posts: 2878
Location: Aubrey, Texas | I am a little different in my approach to it. I try to stay out of their mouth as much as possible- just enough to guide them around. Slowing one down for me starts in my mind, then flows down through my body. Ed Wright used to call it your "body throttle." I absolutely WILL NOT let myself get angry or impatient; it takes as long as it takes. At first I go in rhythm with a horse, then I begin to picture myself as one of those parachute brakes they use to stop drag racing cars. I totally relax my body and roll back on my pockets some. A lot of times I will engage my lower abdomen muscles (I tell myself it's like doing isometric exercise- not my favorite part!) and begin to let my rhythm fall a little behind theirs. I also think of myself as being very, very heavy. They begin to get the picture- they may not get it all in one day but it happens without a fight and you can build on each days' success until you can pretty much influence their speed with your body and attitude. That exaggerated position carries over to when I need to get one to relax walking or standing, as well. When I get ready to stop I just let my breath out in a big sigh- doesn't take one long to learn that cue and they'll stop on their own, nice and soft. |
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Slowing a chargy lope