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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
  
| At the last two rodeos, my horse has not acted himself. He pins his ears at other horses, won't stand still, and stomps angrily as if there's awful flies but there isn't. He's been acting fine at home, and this is a new problem. Last week he went in the gate perfect and we had a great run until midway through 3rd he started bucking and bucked he whole way home. He's 14 and very finished, this is Very unlike him. After his run i led him outside and he was swishing his tail angrily and kicking with his back legs, up at his belly, and behind him. I loosened his backcinch and he stopped. I assumed it was tighter then he liked and so this week I ran him with a loose backcinch. As I was waiting to run he stomped his front feet and back feet again but there was absolutely no flies. He walked right through the gate ( we sometimes have gate issues) and then had a really great run. After the run he was angrily kicking behind him with his back feet. One of my friends took off his back boots and he kicked at her, and continued kicking forward and back and stomping for about 5 min. As I led him to the trailer he was swishing his tail and he pawed constantly as he was in the trailer before we left (30 min) he has never done this and he's usually sweet, calm, and friendly to other horses. I'm having him vetted, but he is 100% sound trotting on pavement and acts full of energy. Chiro done this week, teeth are good, saddle fits, he's not lame, nothing different then our normal routine, so I'm completely clueless. Today he's in his stall kicking his back legs constantly. What could be wrong?!! |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Check his hind suspensories.
What are his Vital signs?
Is he eating all his rations?
Any heat in his legs? |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | If he's bleeding his respiratory rate is unusually high post the run for awhile plus he may get "higher" instead of relaxed as you trot and walk out during your cool down. Most bleeders or a horse with a stomach ulcer will not want to drink water straight away for me. I believe it burns their stomach when the water and the blood mix. If I give a bit of alfalfa then they will drink and begin to relax.
Most of the time the first (right) barrel turn that's blown can be a sign to me of stomach ulcers.
Have you ever considered the S/S of ulcers to see if that's a possibility? |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Sounds like Uclers to me or could be a bleeder.. Poor guy. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| uno-dos-tres! - 2017-05-21 10:49 AM
Check his hind suspensories.
What are his Vital signs?
Is he eating all his rations?
Any heat in his legs?
Everything normal, he's eating fine, and no heat.
Edited by IowaCanChaser 2017-05-21 11:13 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| uno-dos-tres! - 2017-05-21 10:56 AM
If he's bleeding his respiratory rate is unusually high post the run for awhile plus he may get "higher" instead of relaxed as you trot and walk out during your cool down. Most bleeders or a horse with a stomach ulcer will not want to drink water straight away for me. I believe it burns their stomach when the water and the blood mix. If I give a bit of alfalfa then they will drink and begin to relax.
Most of the time the first (right) barrel turn that's blown can be a sign to me of stomach ulcers.
Have you ever considered the S/S of ulcers to see if that's a possibility?
He wasn't breathing hard after his run, and cooled down very fast. No problems with first barrel, but he's had ulcers in the past. So it could be a possibility. But if I remember correctly they seem lethargic and lose weight. That's what happened to him when he had ulcers a couple years ago. He's fat and energetic now. I'm taking him to the University vet school tomorrow am for a full exam |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Perfect, they can get labs done and a scope on the spot. Remember to not feed him tonight. Please let me know what they say. Good thoughts for a find of the cause. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| When was the last time his sheath was cleaned? |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Since this horse had a history of having Uclers that would be my top of the list to be checking him for. And he does sound like hes a bit colicy to me too. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| streakysox - 2017-05-21 1:19 PM
When was the last time his sheath was cleaned?
Last fall, but he usually stays pretty clean. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-05-21 1:24 PM
Since this horse had a history of having Uclers that would be my top of the list to be checking him for. And he does sound like hes a bit colicy to me too.
Yes, I will be sure to have him scoped tomorrow. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Kissing spine? |
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 I Prefer a Beard
Posts: 1944
| Poor guy he's definitely telling you something is wrong. Hope your able to find out quickly and get him back to his old self. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | You could try palpating his muscles and maybe doing some flexing on his legs, see if you can figure out if it's some pain somewhere besides ulcers. But, it does sound like ulcers. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| caspersabelpip - 2017-05-21 1:37 PM
Poor guy he's definitely telling you something is wrong. Hope your able to find out quickly and get him back to his old self.
Thank you! And thanks everyone for all the helpful replies! I'm praying it's something minor with an easy fix.
Edited by IowaCanChaser 2017-05-21 1:53 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Nita - 2017-05-21 1:43 PM
You could try palpating his muscles and maybe doing some flexing on his legs, see if you can figure out if it's some pain somewhere besides ulcers. But, it does sound like ulcers.
Felt him all over no heat, no tenderness. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| IowaCanChaser - 2017-05-21 11:10 AM uno-dos-tres! - 2017-05-21 10:56 AM If he's bleeding his respiratory rate is unusually high post the run for awhile plus he may get "higher" instead of relaxed as you trot and walk out during your cool down. Most bleeders or a horse with a stomach ulcer will not want to drink water straight away for me. I believe it burns their stomach when the water and the blood mix. If I give a bit of alfalfa then they will drink and begin to relax.
Most of the time the first (right) barrel turn that's blown can be a sign to me of stomach ulcers.
Have you ever considered the S/S of ulcers to see if that's a possibility? He wasn't breathing hard after his run, and cooled down very fast. No problems with first barrel, but he's had ulcers in the past. So it could be a possibility. But if I remember correctly they seem lethargic and lose weight. That's what happened to him when he had ulcers a couple years ago. He's fat and energetic now. I'm taking him to the University vet school tomorrow am for a full exam
I have a bleeder who has 0 other symptoms, no cough, recovers exceptionally fast. I f he had not bled a trickle which led to having him scoped I would have sworn he was not a bleeder. I definitely would arrange a scope as close to a run as you can since he is acting different. Good luck, hope it is minor. |
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 Ice Cream with Sprinkles on Top
Posts: 2442
Location: Always in the Jungle of Ohio | Fusing hocks..... has he been injected? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| CHEETAH - 2017-05-21 2:14 PM
Fusing hocks..... has he been injected?
He's been injected once ever, it was in March. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| rodeomom3 - 2017-05-21 2:07 PM
IowaCanChaser - 2017-05-21 11:10 AM uno-dos-tres! - 2017-05-21 10:56 AM If he's bleeding his respiratory rate is unusually high post the run for awhile plus he may get "higher" instead of relaxed as you trot and walk out during your cool down. Most bleeders or a horse with a stomach ulcer will not want to drink water straight away for me. I believe it burns their stomach when the water and the blood mix. If I give a bit of alfalfa then they will drink and begin to relax.
Most of the time the first (right) barrel turn that's blown can be a sign to me of stomach ulcers.
Have you ever considered the S/S of ulcers to see if that's a possibility? He wasn't breathing hard after his run, and cooled down very fast. No problems with first barrel, but he's had ulcers in the past. So it could be a possibility. But if I remember correctly they seem lethargic and lose weight. That's what happened to him when he had ulcers a couple years ago. He's fat and energetic now. I'm taking him to the University vet school tomorrow am for a full exam
How close to a run does it need to be done? Is 2 days after too long? |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Might help, might not.
We have a rope horse who has had "temper tantrums" after a couple hard rounds here at home and then being tied up (after walking down to normal respiration). Stomp, stamp, paw, kick out and generally be unpleasant despite really being a pretty mellow guy.
We've started feeding him as though he has a variety of pssm - low sugar/starch and supplementing magnesium with MagRestore. His outbreaks almost made me wonder if he wasn't having some cramping/tying up. He does has a pssm2 suspect grandsire.
After about 3 weeks of the new feeding program (Along with some tack changes for full disclosure) he is a different horse. No more temper tantrums for one this, but also a lot chiller/better to rope on. We were thinking about selling him and now my husband plans to haul him over the 4th of July. I wouldn't have dared try rope on him before as he could be a dragon, now I'm starting him on calves and will haul him later this summer in the breakaway. His overall body condition has improved a ton - previously I would have called him a hard keeper. He looks excellent now and has really bloomed
Just another thing to add to the list and consider |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| OhMax - 2017-05-21 3:51 PM
Might help, might not.
We have a rope horse who has had "temper tantrums" after a couple hard rounds here at home and then being tied up (after walking down to normal respiration). Stomp, stamp, paw, kick out and generally be unpleasant despite really being a pretty mellow guy.
We've started feeding him as though he has a variety of pssm - low sugar/starch and supplementing magnesium with MagRestore. His outbreaks almost made me wonder if he wasn't having some cramping/tying up. He does has a pssm2 suspect grandsire.
After about 3 weeks of the new feeding program (Along with some tack changes for full disclosure) he is a different horse. No more temper tantrums for one this, but also a lot chiller/better to rope on. We were thinking about selling him and now my husband plans to haul him over the 4th of July. I wouldn't have dared try rope on him before as he could be a dragon, now I'm starting him on calves and will haul him later this summer in the breakaway. His overall body condition has improved a ton - previously I would have called him a hard keeper. He looks excellent now and has really bloomed
Just another thing to add to the list and consider
Thanks! I will keep this in mind! Did it happen out of the blue with your horse or start gradually? |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | IowaCanChaser - 2017-05-21 3:02 PM
rodeomom3 - 2017-05-21 2:07 PM
IowaCanChaser - 2017-05-21 11:10 AM uno-dos-tres! - 2017-05-21 10:56 AM If he's bleeding his respiratory rate is unusually high post the run for awhile plus he may get "higher" instead of relaxed as you trot and walk out during your cool down. Most bleeders or a horse with a stomach ulcer will not want to drink water straight away for me. I believe it burns their stomach when the water and the blood mix. If I give a bit of alfalfa then they will drink and begin to relax.
Most of the time the first (right) barrel turn that's blown can be a sign to me of stomach ulcers.
Have you ever considered the S/S of ulcers to see if that's a possibility? He wasn't breathing hard after his run, and cooled down very fast. No problems with first barrel, but he's had ulcers in the past. So it could be a possibility. But if I remember correctly they seem lethargic and lose weight. That's what happened to him when he had ulcers a couple years ago. He's fat and energetic now. I'm taking him to the University vet school tomorrow am for a full exam
How close to a run does it need to be done? Is 2 days after too long?
No, they can see flecks still in that time frame. But, you should consider doing a BAL on him. You'll get a better cause as to the diagnosis. Ask them to send to Tufts University; They've always been great with this lab. (It's kinda like Dairy One being the cats meow for forage and feed analysis.)
Warning your horse will cough alot during the BAL procedure. Then have some discharge for a few days post the test.
Also, make sure they take a lung x-ray prior to any scope or BAL procedures. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | fusing hock will make them act that way kicking and stomping,Id xray them.. they can still trot off sound and show no lameness..
also we always give a lil of soaked alfalfa cubes before we compete to help keep acid down in stomach.. just for info ..in case its ulcers |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| IowaCanChaser - 2017-05-21 4:57 PM
OhMax - 2017-05-21 3:51 PM
Might help, might not.
We have a rope horse who has had "temper tantrums" after a couple hard rounds here at home and then being tied up (after walking down to normal respiration). Stomp, stamp, paw, kick out and generally be unpleasant despite really being a pretty mellow guy.
We've started feeding him as though he has a variety of pssm - low sugar/starch and supplementing magnesium with MagRestore. His outbreaks almost made me wonder if he wasn't having some cramping/tying up. He does has a pssm2 suspect grandsire.
After about 3 weeks of the new feeding program (Along with some tack changes for full disclosure) he is a different horse. No more temper tantrums for one this, but also a lot chiller/better to rope on. We were thinking about selling him and now my husband plans to haul him over the 4th of July. I wouldn't have dared try rope on him before as he could be a dragon, now I'm starting him on calves and will haul him later this summer in the breakaway. His overall body condition has improved a ton - previously I would have called him a hard keeper. He looks excellent now and has really bloomed
Just another thing to add to the list and consider
Thanks! I will keep this in mind! Did it happen out of the blue with your horse or start gradually?
Well we've on only owned him for about a year now. It wasn't happening every time, but it probably happened 4 or 5 times over the course of last summer and once when we had a warm spell there in feb or march and got to rope. The connection seemed to be warm temps and him getting very hot. I will say however since we've made the changes, along with saddle and tack changes, he barely broke a sweat the other after heading 10-12 steers in 70* temps. He would have been sopping wet before. |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I'd bet he's displacing his soft palate. I have a gelding who had this issue and he would be quiet as a mouse before a run, has bucked with me like you're describing running home, and then began to get really agitated after a run, leaping, lunging, mad. Eventually he started running off out of the arena. All due to soft palate displacement caused by inflammation and vascularity in his glottis causing it not to function properly. We thought he was bleeding too, but several post race scopes proved otherwise. We eventually did an exercise scope and found him displaced upon insertion, and then he continually displaced over and over again in about a 10 minute exercise session. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Update**
We had our trip to the vet today. They did a full lameness exam and found him 100% sound. They ruled out fusing Hocks. We did a scope and didn't find any ulcers. Checked his sheath for beans and found nothing. They seem to think it's a behavioral issue and that he's fine. But I know my horse, and I know something's up. For the next run I'm going to give him ulcer guard for a couple days before and the day of the run to see if there's an improvement. Then run him on Bute and see if it's pain.
For people who have bleeders, do they get agitated after a run even if they aren't breathing hard?
And the soft palate, any breathing issues?
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| My bleeder has never shown any behavior issues, never coughed, etc., always had a great attitude and eager to work. |
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 Some Kind of Trouble
Posts: 4430
| Hind gut ulcers... |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | IowaCanChaser - 2017-05-23 3:14 PM Update** We had our trip to the vet today. They did a full lameness exam and found him 100% sound. They ruled out fusing Hocks. We did a scope and didn't find any ulcers. Checked his sheath for beans and found nothing. They seem to think it's a behavioral issue and that he's fine. But I know my horse, and I know something's up. For the next run I'm going to give him ulcer guard for a couple days before and the day of the run to see if there's an improvement. Then run him on Bute and see if it's pain. For people who have bleeders, do they get agitated after a run even if they aren't breathing hard? And the soft palate, any breathing issues?
Yes, they can.
Did they scope up to the trachea bifurcation in the lungs to look for blood and did you get a BAL done?
I like your plan. If those two adjustments (bute/ulcer meds) don't make a change try a tongue tie for a few runs. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| uno-dos-tres! - 2017-05-23 6:39 PM
IowaCanChaser - 2017-05-23 3:14 PM Update** We had our trip to the vet today. They did a full lameness exam and found him 100% sound. They ruled out fusing Hocks. We did a scope and didn't find any ulcers. Checked his sheath for beans and found nothing. They seem to think it's a behavioral issue and that he's fine. But I know my horse, and I know something's up. For the next run I'm going to give him ulcer guard for a couple days before and the day of the run to see if there's an improvement. Then run him on Bute and see if it's pain. For people who have bleeders, do they get agitated after a run even if they aren't breathing hard? And the soft palate, any breathing issues?
Yes, they can.
Did they scope up to the trachea bifurcation in the lungs to look for blood and did you get a BAL done?
I like your plan. If those two adjustments (bute/ulcer meds) don't make a change try a tongue tie for a few runs.
They didn't scope lungs since it's been 4 days since he last ran, and no BAL unfortunately. What would the tongue tie do?
Also, would giving ulcer guard 1 day before and the day of show results, or do I need to give it for a week
Edited by IowaCanChaser 2017-05-23 8:01 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Bump |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | IowaCanChaser - 2017-05-23 3:14 PM Update** We had our trip to the vet today. They did a full lameness exam and found him 100% sound. They ruled out fusing Hocks. We did a scope and didn't find any ulcers. Checked his sheath for beans and found nothing. They seem to think it's a behavioral issue and that he's fine. But I know my horse, and I know something's up. For the next run I'm going to give him ulcer guard for a couple days before and the day of the run to see if there's an improvement. Then run him on Bute and see if it's pain. For people who have bleeders, do they get agitated after a run even if they aren't breathing hard? And the soft palate, any breathing issues?
As far as soft palate displacement, some can exhibit and/or develop secondary respiratory issues and some may not. For some this condition is mechanical and/or can become a mechanical issue due to scar tissue, yet for others, the displacement is secondary to an inflammatory condition and then becomes a mechanical issue due to the weight and vascularity of the glottis not allowing it to function as it should. The displacement if left unmanaged can create secondary respiratory issues or other issues in the upper airways like cysts or ulcers due to the displacement happening so frequently. For my horse, the displacement was secondary to other things that we had to get under control.
My horse was running off out of the pen and bucked and his issue was inflammation related. After months of this occuring, he did develop COPD, but initially when this started he only exhibited mild allergy symptoms and nothing major. I know of another horse who develops ulcers on his glottis due to the constant displacement, even after tie forward surgery. He, too, has respiratory issues, but they are managed, yet does still displace due to the scar tissue that has been created over a long time.
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Horse angry after run?