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Elite Veteran
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Location: California | I have a couple horses suspected of PSSM, 2 is more suspected but will be testing for 1 now and talking to my vet about testing for 2.
I already have their feed program pretty PSSM safe so I want to tweak it a little more and see if it helps. Currently they get fed alfalfa pellets, Renew Gold, and THE Muscle Mass (I use a little oil to stick the supplement). My gelding has done great on MM. I know I need to up the magnesium and Vit E levels.
I'm really torn between trying the THE PSSM formula and switching to MVPs In Sync 4.
http://www.unitedvetequine.com/horse-supplements/in-sync-gastric-su...
https://m.facebook.com/TDequine/posts/1266747763362094:0 |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
  
Location: Kansas | There is an entire facebook group dedicated to PSSM horses. You might start there. One of the BBs on here is knowledgeable on PSSM, i think I have her as a facebook friend |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | hoofs_in_motion - 2017-06-09 7:29 AM
There is an entire facebook group dedicated to PSSM horses. You might start there. One of the BBs on here is knowledgeable on PSSM, i think I have her as a facebook friend
I've posted there too. Didn't really get many replies and searching didn't turn much up.... |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| We have one we suspect of being PSSM, more now that we have seen a radical change in his behavior after changing feed.
We feed Purina Ultium, it is 15% NSC and fixed formula. We also supplement with MagRestore. My next step was to add more fat and vit e if we hadn't seen the change we have.
Hay wise right now we feed an alfalfa mix but are getting ready to bale our grass pasture. We will be holding back some alfalfa until we see how he does on the grass. |
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| Sent you a PM |
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Location: in the ozone | If you are suspecting PSSM1, Renew Gold is NOT the feed to feed. And many type1 horses cannot tolerate alfalfa. Have you sent testing in? Animal Genetics is fast for PSSM1 testing (or the whole 5 Panel testing). I would NOT do a muscle biopsy for PSSM2 - too many false answers and you really do not know "what" part of all that you are gettting reactions to. I would sent hair to EquiSeq and test that way - so you know which genes are positive or negative and can feed accordingly & keep your fingers crossed that it helps. Some respond, some don't. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| Robin Herring (owns Firewaterontherocks) feeds EQUI JEWEL by Kentucky Performance Products to her young futurity horse. She lives in E TX so I do not know where she buys it. Robin knows how to feed and her babies and older horses always look terrific plus this horse is winning. If the product did not work she would not be feeding it. Something worth looking into |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Renew Gold works great in a controlled PSSM diet. Total starch and sugar contribution is only 78 grams per day. Since you need to feed more of a lower NSC feed to get the same support most of those end up contributing 200 grams of total NSC or more. It is not percentage of NSC in a feed, it is total contribution from amount fed. Alfalfa in the diet also contributes less NSC than most grass hays. I would be cautious about taking the alfalfa all the way out of the diet and going to straight grass hay. Remember that daily activity is as important as diet in a PSSM horse. I have worked with these horses ever since we worked with Stephanie Valberg on the diets for her original clinical trials. Many can have a long useful performance life if managed properly. But, because of the every day exercise requirement, they are not for everyone. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | slipperyslope - 2017-06-09 1:40 PM
If you are suspecting PSSM1, Renew Gold is NOT the feed to feed. And many type1 horses cannot tolerate alfalfa. Have you sent testing in? Animal Genetics is fast for PSSM1 testing (or the whole 5 Panel testing). I would NOT do a muscle biopsy for PSSM2 - too many false answers and you really do not know "what" part of all that you are gettting reactions to. I would sent hair to EquiSeq and test that way - so you know which genes are positive or negative and can feed accordingly & keep your fingers crossed that it helps. Some respond, some don't.
What about Renew Gold makes you feel that it would not be a good product for a PSSM horse? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | slipperyslope - 2017-06-09 12:40 PM
If you are suspecting PSSM1, Renew Gold is NOT the feed to feed. And many type1 horses cannot tolerate alfalfa. Have you sent testing in? Animal Genetics is fast for PSSM1 testing (or the whole 5 Panel testing). I would NOT do a muscle biopsy for PSSM2 - too many false answers and you really do not know "what" part of all that you are gettting reactions to. I would sent hair to EquiSeq and test that way - so you know which genes are positive or negative and can feed accordingly & keep your fingers crossed that it helps. Some respond, some don't.
I'm actually leaning heavier towards PSSM 2 honestly. I'm testing for 1 just to rule it out mainly. So good to know about the muscle biopsys! However I will not send EquiSeq money until theor turn around time for results is more consistent. I know MANY people who have been waiting 9+ months for results. The PSSM1 test will be sent in as soon as I can successfully get the hair sample needed. So far I've been failing. Lol
I have researched till I'm blue in the face and while some PSSM horses can't have Renew Gold, most are fine with it. Many people use rice bran with their PSSM horses. If i drop the Renew Gold he looses weight. He does great on it.
I know the preferred way to feed is the supplements they need separate from each other so each can be controlled as needed. However, I'm not the one feeding everyday so when someone else feeds for me it needs to be as simple as possible. Not an easy task I know but I'm determined to test my theory while I wait on results. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | winwillows - 2017-06-09 12:57 PM
Renew Gold works great in a controlled PSSM diet. Total starch and sugar contribution is only 78 grams per day. Since you need to feed more of a lower NSC feed to get the same support most of those end up contributing 200 grams of total NSC or more. It is not percentage of NSC in a feed, it is total contribution from amount fed. Alfalfa in the diet also contributes less NSC than most grass hays. I would be cautious about taking the alfalfa all the way out of the diet and going to straight grass hay. Remember that daily activity is as important as diet in a PSSM horse. I have worked with these horses ever since we worked with Stephanie Valberg on the diets for her original clinical trials. Many can have a long useful performance life if managed properly. But, because of the every day exercise requirement, they are not for everyone.
I've worked hard at finding a diet that works with the gelding, he definitely does best on the alfalfa pellets and Renew Gold! Neither will be taken away. :)
My biggest issue is consistent exercise. That's my struggle. I've been making it happen lately and may have someone that is willing to help when my work schedule doesn't allow me the time. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| To test for PSSM, where do you send the hair samples? |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Serenity06 - 2017-06-09 3:58 PM
winwillows - 2017-06-09 12:57 PM
Renew Gold works great in a controlled PSSM diet. Total starch and sugar contribution is only 78 grams per day. Since you need to feed more of a lower NSC feed to get the same support most of those end up contributing 200 grams of total NSC or more. It is not percentage of NSC in a feed, it is total contribution from amount fed. Alfalfa in the diet also contributes less NSC than most grass hays. I would be cautious about taking the alfalfa all the way out of the diet and going to straight grass hay. Remember that daily activity is as important as diet in a PSSM horse. I have worked with these horses ever since we worked with Stephanie Valberg on the diets for her original clinical trials. Many can have a long useful performance life if managed properly. But, because of the every day exercise requirement, they are not for everyone.
I've worked hard at finding a diet that works with the gelding, he definitely does best on the alfalfa pellets and Renew Gold! Neither will be taken away. : )
My biggest issue is consistent exercise. That's my struggle. I've been making it happen lately and may have someone that is willing to help when my work schedule doesn't allow me the time.
I understand your problem. The need for daily exercise is what makes these horses not for everyone. So many people just simply do not have a schedule that allows for that no matter what they do, or how dedicated to the horse they are. It is, however, a requirement that can not be skipped. If you miss a day or two, most horses require that you be very careful for twice that time as you carefully work them back. They still remain more at risk for a while. I have worked with a lot of these horses for almost thirty years, and these are pretty proven rules to me. I invented Stabilized rice bran for use in horses and, in general, prefer the effect of RG over SRB because of the lower NSC and the fact that it is digested slightly higher in the system. We did use SRB in the diets that we did for Stephanie Valberg's clinical trials with very good result though, and it is clearly an option in the PSSM diet. |
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Location: in the ozone | For a P2 horse, you want high protein AND Tri Amino Acids - VERY important. And those horses do NOT need the consistent daily exercise. Some type1 horses tolerate some alfalfa, but many many do not, as well as rice bran, stabilized or not. Join the PSSM Forum on FB (NOT the one about 5 Panel testing & discussion - they advocate continuing to breed positive horses). Ask on there - they are the experts on how to feed properly. Also, I don't know of anyone that has waited 9 mos on testing from EquiSeq - in the initial testing group, there were long waits & for the original ones tested since they were verifying all results. Last I knew, it was about a 2 week turn around for P2. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | slipperyslope - 2017-06-09 8:21 PM
For a P2 horse, you want high protein AND Tri Amino Acids - VERY important. And those horses do NOT need the consistent daily exercise. Some type1 horses tolerate some alfalfa, but many many do not, as well as rice bran, stabilized or not. Join the PSSM Forum on FB (NOT the one about 5 Panel testing & discussion - they advocate continuing to breed positive horses). Ask on there - they are the experts on how to feed properly. Also, I don't know of anyone that has waited 9 mos on testing from EquiSeq - in the initial testing group, there were long waits & for the original ones tested since they were verifying all results. Last I knew, it was about a 2 week turn around for P2.
Thank you!
I posted in that group last week and didn't get many responses. Searched the group for answers as well. There is actually a post about EquiSeq on there that is recent and many of them have been waiting up to 9 months still on results. So I'm pretty hesitant to send in hair....
Thank you everyone for the responses! |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | slipperyslope - 2017-06-09 9:21 PM
For a P2 horse, you want high protein AND Tri Amino Acids - VERY important. And those horses do NOT need the consistent daily exercise. Some type1 horses tolerate some alfalfa, but many many do not, as well as rice bran, stabilized or not. Join the PSSM Forum on FB (NOT the one about 5 Panel testing & discussion - they advocate continuing to breed positive horses). Ask on there - they are the experts on how to feed properly. Also, I don't know of anyone that has waited 9 mos on testing from EquiSeq - in the initial testing group, there were long waits & for the original ones tested since they were verifying all results. Last I knew, it was about a 2 week turn around for P2.
You are right on both overall protein level and tri amino acids. Both of which are significantly provided in Renew Gold in quantity higher than in Stabilized Rice Bran.
As to exercise, you are right there also that it is less required in PSSM 2. However, I feel that there is still a significant benefit to maintenance exercises that miss as few days as possible in those horses. |
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Location: in the ozone | Serenity06 - 2017-06-09 9:35 PM
slipperyslope - 2017-06-09 8:21 PM
For a P2 horse, you want high protein AND Tri Amino Acids - VERY important. And those horses do NOT need the consistent daily exercise. Some type1 horses tolerate some alfalfa, but many many do not, as well as rice bran, stabilized or not. Join the PSSM Forum on FB (NOT the one about 5 Panel testing & discussion - they advocate continuing to breed positive horses). Ask on there - they are the experts on how to feed properly. Also, I don't know of anyone that has waited 9 mos on testing from EquiSeq - in the initial testing group, there were long waits & for the original ones tested since they were verifying all results. Last I knew, it was about a 2 week turn around for P2.
Thank you!
I posted in that group last week and didn't get many responses. Searched the group for answers as well. There is actually a post about EquiSeq on there that is recent and many of them have been waiting up to 9 months still on results. So I'm pretty hesitant to send in hair....
Thank you everyone for the responses!
I also think it depends on the test - some are still being verified so taking longer. Have you by any chance provided your horse's pedigree on there & asked which variants to test for? The really nice thing right now is, they are trying to get more pedigree's and history & results, etc, so if you buy the P2 & P3 tests, he has been also testing for P4 & PX for free. I now have all for my one horse - he is n/n on all except P2 - n/P2. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | slipperyslope - 2017-06-10 11:21 AM
Serenity06 - 2017-06-09 9:35 PM
slipperyslope - 2017-06-09 8:21 PM
For a P2 horse, you want high protein AND Tri Amino Acids - VERY important. And those horses do NOT need the consistent daily exercise. Some type1 horses tolerate some alfalfa, but many many do not, as well as rice bran, stabilized or not. Join the PSSM Forum on FB (NOT the one about 5 Panel testing & discussion - they advocate continuing to breed positive horses). Ask on there - they are the experts on how to feed properly. Also, I don't know of anyone that has waited 9 mos on testing from EquiSeq - in the initial testing group, there were long waits & for the original ones tested since they were verifying all results. Last I knew, it was about a 2 week turn around for P2.
Thank you!
I posted in that group last week and didn't get many responses. Searched the group for answers as well. There is actually a post about EquiSeq on there that is recent and many of them have been waiting up to 9 months still on results. So I'm pretty hesitant to send in hair....
Thank you everyone for the responses!
I also think it depends on the test - some are still being verified so taking longer. Have you by any chance provided your horse's pedigree on there & asked which variants to test for? The really nice thing right now is, they are trying to get more pedigree's and history & results, etc, so if you buy the P2 & P3 tests, he has been also testing for P4 & PX for free. I now have all for my one horse - he is n/n on all except P2 - n/P2.
Yes I did. My mare has P1-P4 horses in her lines and some are close up. That means my gelding (her son) has those risks. I had absolutely no clue she had PSSM horses in her lines until I posted her pedigree in that group! I had planned on 5 panel testing her before breeding but I was given a great opportunity on a last minute notice and she literally went to the vet that same week. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
| I have 3 pssm type 2 horses. Tri amino has been key for them. Mag and vit e honestly has made no difference in their diets. One I have to exercise at least every other day, but he also has arthritis and some other issues so means we don't really do much. One I have retired and turned out and is fine. The third one I sure can't figure out. Its very frustrating to deal with 3... |
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Feeding PSSM horses....