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Yeah I know everyone hates these especially if they are anonymous. But I'd like other peoples thoughts.
January I sent a horse to a trainer who I totally trusted. It was a 3 coming 4 yrs old. Gentle, handled from birth. Ground work done and had 5-10 easy rides. Never gave me a bit of trouble, never bucked or anything was just super easy. Sent it because I wanted it ridden through the winter.
First about 70 days great reports, trainer loves the horse. Then the horse challenged the trainer but the trainer said they got through it.
Then about 85-90day rthe horse starts grinding its teeth. I ask if it could be ulcers or pain. Trainer says maybe so we treat for ulcers and have a chiro out, horse does better for a little while but then was back at it. I ask for video, around 90ish days horse is doing ok, a little behind where the trainer would like but still totally acceptable. So I keep the horse in training, ask for video updates but trainer can’t find someone to hold the camera. Only time I hear from the trainer is when It is time to pay or I ask how my horse is doing. I try not to be that owner who calls several times a week. I know trainers are busy people, I figure if there are issues I’ll hear about it. So, I get told the horse is better but still a brat, having hormone issues etc.
Finally, 5 almost six months later trainer says my horse doesn’t want to be a barrel horse, after I paid for the 6th month of training. I tell the trainer ok and tell them I’ll be picking up my horse. My truck broke down on the way to pick up the horse and the horse was there for about two weeks longer, because I had to hire a hauler.
So I get this horse back home, and go to try it out. Ask the trainer what their routine was and what gear ie. bit the horse likes.
I get back a message saying they never found a bit the horse liked and that they warm the horse up before they ride.
So go work my horse, Still super quiet on the ground like the horse was before but after I get on I go to ask the horse to walk out and nothing, Like sitting on a stone, my horse is very reluctant to move forward totally dead to your leg. So I get the horse moving out and I go to ask it to stop and it drops behind the bit and grinds it teeth and continues to move forward.
Anyway I get it stopped and decided to see what else it knows and I can’t more the hind quarters or forequarters its totally like moving a rock. The horse has gotten worse since the only video I got showing the horse working.
I contact the trainer with my disappointment. They are sorry, I ask for a refund of my training fees because the horse is way worse off now than when I sent it. Trainer says they can’t do that.
I post on my facebook about my experience trainer gets mad. Makes a post of how they tried so hard and the horse was just a pig with no work ethic and was from the beginning. The trainer had mentioned small problems but nothing to this affect. I always asked what the trainer felt the isses stemmed from. I feel the trainer wasn't honest with me. If they had told me they thought the horse was no good and pig etc, I would have pulled my horse much sooner. Now I am almost 6K in the hole with a horse who I now have to retrain.
So My question are,
Was I wrong for wanting some of my training fees back. Especially for the 6th month when I told them at the beginning of the month I was coming to get my horse.
Was I wrong for posting my disappointment in my horse.
Is it unreasonable to expect a horse who was started when sent, to come home 5 months later and walk, trot, lope, stop, back up, yield the hindquarters and forequarters willingly and with a soft feel?
If I’m off base I’d like to know but I’m feeling taken advantage of and used, I feel if I wouldn't have pulled my horse this trainer would have kept on working this horse without making progress and just continued to collect my money.
Edited by So Lost 2017-07-03 6:05 PM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt. |
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Member
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| Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 11:22 AM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I never posted the trainers name on my post. it was more a post about how disappointed I was with my horse.
This trainer was 1,000 miles away. Generally very good about up dates and videos till now. They had instructions to provide what ever the horse needed and I would pay for it. I trusted this trainer to be my eyes and ears and do what ever this horse needed, take care of it like it was their own.
eta: I did try to take this issue up with the trainer before I posted anything about my horse.
Edited by So Lost 2017-07-03 11:31 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| Were you and the trainer clear about what you expected from the very beginning? Did you tell the trainer what you were hoping to see out of your horse in x number of months?
If you were, then I'd say there is an issue. Maybe the trainer can take your horse back if they tell you what they think the horse is capable of.
If you weren't, then I would say nobody's at fault here.
And yes, I think it was wrong to post disappointment. Even without naming names, people can figure out who you're talking about. If it gets back to the trainer, I doubt they'll be willing to work with you.
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Member
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| dRowe - 2017-07-03 11:34 AM Were you and the trainer clear about what you expected from the very beginning? Did you tell the trainer what you were hoping to see out of your horse in x number of months? If you were, then I'd say there is an issue. Maybe the trainer can take your horse back if they tell you what they think the horse is capable of. If you weren't, then I would say nobody's at fault here. And yes, I think it was wrong to post disappointment. Even without naming names, people can figure out who you're talking about. If it gets back to the trainer, I doubt they'll be willing to work with you.
I thought we were clear about what could be expected. I tried to work out the situation with the trainer and figure out what went wrong before I posted anything publicly. I shared my horse was coming home and then went sillent. People have followed this horse since it was born and wanted to know how it turned out and instead of pm'ing everyone. I posted the results after I had tried to reslove my issues with the trainer.
I won't send my horse back, the trainer posted this horse was literally the worst horse they have every handled. If the trainer would have told me this in the beginning I would have pulled it from training much earlier. |
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 Expert
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Location: The best kept secret in TX | I agree. I would have never posted to Facebook about this issue. This makes ANY trainer reluctant to work with you in the future. Regardless of if you named any names it was still wrong.
If your horse was in fact 1,000 miles away then I would have found a way to factor in at least one trip per month to see your horse in action. If the trainer refused the first month for you to come observe then you could have pulled your horse then and there and been done.
If you only received one video in 6 months time then I'm sorry, but this is your fault. If I didn't receive at least one video per week then I would have pulled. Trainers who can't find anyone to hold a camera really don't want you too see your horse that bad. Any person can lean a phone against a post and get a video. Given, it may be a bad video but at least it's a video.
If you did not check in with the trainer at least once a week then you are partially at blame for the horse knowing nothing in 6 months time.
If you do not take action on behalf of your horse while he or she is in training then it is not the trainers fault for your horse knowing nothing and you being out 6 months worth of training, it is yours. |
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Member
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| I wanted to add this isn't the first time I had used this trainer. I had them work an different horse a couple years back with stellar results. I trusted them, their judgement and had no reason to think they would be dishonest.
Apparently trainer aren't held accountable at all these days.
I'm not concerned about using a different trainer and will probably never send another horse out.
Edited by So Lost 2017-07-03 11:51 AM
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Expert
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Location: The best kept secret in TX | So Lost - 2017-07-03 11:50 AM I wanted to add this isn't the first time I had used this trainer. I had them work an different horse a couple years back with stellar results. I trusted them, their judgement and had no reason to think they would be dishonest.
Apparently trainer aren't held accountable at all these days.
I'm not concerned about using a different trainer and will probably never send another horse out.
Neither are owners.... |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | IMO, when the horse started grinding his teeth, he needed to come home and be turned out for a while.
I think part of the problem, especially when you send one 1,000 miles away, and if it is a "big name trainer", they'll put their minions on customer horses.
It sounds like this horse was pressured too much, and the trainer should've seen the signs and called you. But it's water under the bridge now, you won't get any money back, and you'll just have to chalk it up to experience. It's too bad the horse had to take the brunt of all this. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | So your saying you never rode your horse befor bringing it home, your never went up to see your horse and ride it under this trainers watch? Have you taken your horse in to get checked to see if they can find a problem? |
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Member
Posts: 28
| I guess the lesson here is:
NEVER TRUST ANYONE 
No matter how much they have won or how well the have done for you in the past.
Yes I am disgusted that my horse suffered.
I am getting it scheduled with a lameness specialist just in case this is a physical issue that the trainer missed or ignored.
Edited by So Lost 2017-07-03 1:34 PM
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 Elite Veteran
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Location: Do I hear Banjos? | You know...whether or not she went to see the horse or work the horse with the trainer...something is wrong here. The horse should not be worse off after 6 months of training. Period. If things were going that badly the trainer should have been communicating that with the client. Not just taking their money and continuing on. Makes you wonder if the trainer themselves was even the one working with the horse.
I guess I find it hard to believe that most are responding as if the owner is the key one at fault here. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | This is why i dont send horses out...i do it myself now it may take me longer but at least i know what im dealing with.....i would be ****ed as well all that money down the drain and you got shafted imo...now you just have to take a deep breath re group. .get your horse to a very good horse vet and start over your self at home.....m |
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A Somebody to Everybody
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Sine the OP is being anonymous we dont know anything about he/she, so I'm thinking the horse could have her number as well. OP have someone else ride this horse after the vet check and see what it knows.. |
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Expert
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Location: The best kept secret in TX | Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 2:13 PM Sine the OP is being anonymous we dont know anything about he/she, so I'm thinking the horse could have her number as well. OP have someone else ride this horse after the vet check and see what it knows..
I agree Roxie.
As far as the lesson in this, it isn't never trust anyone. It's: always be proactive in your horses training, riding, experiences, and life. Not trusting someone has nothing to do with any of this in my opinion. You can still trust someone's judgment and want to see for yourself. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I think the only thing I would have done differently was to let the trainer know that you would no longer recommend them to anyone based on your experience with them and if someone asks about them, you will tell your experience with them. I wouldn't have said anything on social media.
I would be mad especially since you said you had used them before and with success.
A trainer is supposed to let you know if your horse is a "pig" so they don't have to mess with them, and you can cut your losses.
I would not write this horse off, I had a filly that I sent to a trainer my sister had great success with, a month later she calls and tells me to come get her, she is a dangerous horse. She hadn't been with us, but I left the next day to bring her home. I called another trainer we had used and liked a lot. He never could get her to take a wrong step. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| My question is why the heck didnt you go ride with the trainer through out the time he had the horse? They should allow you to come over and periodically ride the horse with the trainer and learn what the horse has been taught. Also ride with the trainer before you take your horse home. You gave someone hundreds, if not thousands of dollars and never rode your horse with him? That makes no sense to me. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | So Lost - 2017-07-03 12:50 PM I wanted to add this isn't the first time I had used this trainer. I had them work an different horse a couple years back with stellar results. I trusted them, their judgement and had no reason to think they would be dishonest.
Apparently trainer aren't held accountable at all these days.
I'm not concerned about using a different trainer and will probably never send another horse out.
maybe the horse is a puke |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Did you ride the horse WITH the trainer present before you took him home? Especially if you had the horse there so long, the trainer probably rides differently than you do. And if the horse IS dead-sided or there is a problem, you can address it on the spot in-person.
Yes, the trainer needs to be accountable for the horse under its care .... but the owner does too. If you didn't make plans to ride your own horse with the trainer and ask questions before you left, well, things can always be communicated better in person.
After 90 days when the trainer stopped communicating, you shouldn't have let that happen. Yes, I agree that the trainer needs to be accountable ... but so does the owner.
Did you sign a contract with the trainer? Do they have a refund policy? Did you ASK about a refund policy before you sent your horse? I don't think it is out of line to ask for one if you were not happy with the results, but on the same token, if the trainer has a no refund policy, then there's no refund. Personally, I don't know of any trainer who gives refunds. It's near impossible to guarantee anything with horses.
So you wanted the trainer to keep your horse for FREE during that 6th month when you said you are brining it home? Did you negociate a reduced monthly fee at that time? Doesn't sound like it. So sounds like trainer was correct to charge you the full month because you did not make arrangements otherwise.
In general, I dislike it when I see anyone make that type of rant on Facebook ... but that's just me. (anymymous or not ..... although nothing is ever anonymous) If you want to tell me about it in person when we are having a conversation someday, sure. But social media is always so quick to jump in with the pitchforks and torches. IMO
So I obviusly the trainer bears some fault in this ... but sounds like some of it bears on you too. |
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Member
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| Yes, I shouldn't have trusted the trainer, even though previously I had a great experience with them, and when the updates were slow I should have been a thorn in this trainers side. I should have said get me videos or I'm sending a hauler. Instead I was understanding about how many horses this trainer had and the long hours they were working and every other excuse I was given for why updates were slow, or vauge and they couldn't get video.
I should have traveled up to see and ride my horse, unfortunately because of my work right now I can't be gone for much more than 24 hours or I would have.
As far as riding different yes everyone rides a bit different but horsemanship is horsemanship. I grew up buying, retraining and selling sale barn horses, catch riding at sales, I usually train all of my own horses but the property I have now isn't set up for it. I have ridden everything from cutters, reiners, western pleasure horses to dressage and jumpers. So I can pretty much guaranteed this isn't a case of the horse has my number.
I asked the trainer about the issues I was having as soon as I rode the horse and they had no explanation, at all. Didn't even say it was odd for the horse or suggest maybe I was doing something wrong. They just said they feel bad the horse is like that. I can't even wrap my head around how a person can take a horse who was going pretty good for me before I sent it, into this dead sided, hard mouthed, animal
As far as my post on social media, well it pretty much said that my horse didn't do well in training and I am disappointed and will have to start the horse from scratch and retrain it. I also said I was feeling sort of ripped off.
I guess I should have told everyone the horse was perfect and retrained it in silence and let the trainer take the credit when the horse is retrained and running because it faux pas to share any experience with a trainer that was bad.
Edited by So Lost 2017-07-03 3:25 PM
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 5:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others.
passive aggressive is GOOOOODDDDDD |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | So Lost - 2017-07-03 3:18 PM Yes, I shouldn't have trusted the trainer, even though previously I had a great experience with them, and when the updates were slow I should have been a thorn in this trainers side. I should have said get me videos or I'm sending a hauler. Instead I was understanding about how many horses this trainer had and the long hours they were working and every other excuse I was given for why updates were slow, or vauge and they couldn't get video.
I should have traveled up to see and ride my horse, unfortunately because of my work right now I can't be gone for much more than 24 hours or I would have.
As far as riding different yes everyone rides a bit different but horsemanship is horsemanship. I grew up buying, retraining and selling sale barn horses, catch riding at sales, I usually train all of my own horses but the property I have now isn't set up for it. I have ridden everything from cutters, reiners, western pleasure horses to dressage and jumpers. So I can pretty much guaranteed this isn't a case of the horse has my number.
I asked the trainer about the issues I was having as soon as I rode the horse and they had no explanation, at all. Didn't even say it was odd for the horse or suggest maybe I was doing something wrong. They just said they feel bad the horse is like that. I can't even wrap my head around how a person can take a horse who was going pretty good for me before I sent it, into this dead sided, hard mouthed, animal
As far as my post on social media, well it pretty much said that my horse didn't do well in training and I am disappointed and will have to start the horse from scratch and retrain it. I also said I was feeling sort of ripped off.
I guess I should have told everyone the horse was perfect and retrained it in silence and let the trainer take the credit when the horse is retrained and running because it faux pas to share any experience with a trainer that was bad.
*Face Palm*
You're missing the entire point of everyone's replies......
1.) You ripped yourself off by not being proactive.
2.) There are bad trainers out there but here's the deal, when you are pro active and take charge of your horses training you won't allow a bad trainer to keep your horse.
You pay your month whether you get it or not, chalk it up to a bad experience and thank the Lord you didn't leave them there for the full 90 days. Or in your case 6 months. You pick a different trainer and you move on. If people ask you in person why you moved, tell them. If your horse was abused, starved, neglected, and you have proof then yes, that warrants a blast in my opinion. Otherwise, keep quiet. Not every trainer is going to click with your horse. It's your responsibility to weed out the ones who don't.
You don't get to have a pity party here, especially under a fake account. You kept a horse at a shady trainer for 6 months. No excuses in my opinion. "Bad" trainer or not, you could have avoided this entire situation. Sorry to be blunt, but I am so stinkin' tired of all these bad trainer posts on here. Be active people. It's really not hard. Be annoying. Be the thorn in the side. Be "that" guy. Your horse will thank you later.
It's like taking your child to daycare. Not all daycare's are a good fit for your child. It doesn't make one worse than the other simply because your child didn't fit in. Move the child, have a happy child, get on with your life. To some, the daycare that wasn't a good fit for your child, is a magical place to other children.
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Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| 1DSoon - 2017-07-03 5:24 PM
lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 5:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others.
I don't think I've been passive aggressive a moment in my life. I'm either happy (or at least ok) with a situation or I'll be in your face about it. Posting something negative on FB isn't passive aggressive, it's pretty straight forward - your name is attached to it. Now here on BHW where we hide behind screen names can be a bit passive aggressive. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | i am going to disagree with most on here. i think this is a pretty bad situation and I get tired of these types of problems being the owners fault. sorry but owners pay the "experts" to take care of their horse and to provide quality training. after 6 months you should be able to ride your horse outside the arena. you should be able to walk, jog, canter and have some body control. and a decent stop according to the horses abilty. the horse should pick up leads decently also.
I have used many trainers and some i have had to keep my eye on and quite frankly that makes them a low quality trainer and they get dumped. The good ones can have a horse dropped off and picked up months later looking good and riding well. If for some reason the horse is not progressing, it is the trainers resonsibilty to comunicate with the owner the lack of progress and ideas of why; and in a timely manner. maybe horse needs a vet or maybe it is a puke. then tell me.
some of my best expereinces have been: one horse i was told on day 3 that she was POS and it was my choice to pick up or move on. I stayed for 10 more days to finish the half month then the horse had a break though so continued. horse number 2 was POS after a week, brought it home and sold it. Another one was not doing well and the trainer told me the horse was having lameness issues like within two weeks. so it went to the vet.
there have been others but i am only commenting on the problems. I have one now that is a POS with tons of talent. I continue with him but am kept informed on him. He has had training on and off for a while and still shows progress he just needs attitude adjustments.
the point I am making here is NOT one of the good trainers took more than 2 weeks to size up the horse and give me an idea of what to expect and they were pretty much right about the horse. The difference here is I was infomred so I could save my money if I so chose.
I do not fully judge a trainer based on the successes. I judge them also by how they deal with the failures. These great trainers handled themselves perfectly and I do not hold it against them that the horse was a puke.
I do not have time to go for a weekly visit to keep tabs on a trainer and make sure he/she is doing their job. i am not their babysitter. they need to be the pro or lose my business.
It bothers me that the owner is the bad guy when the pro rips them off.
peeps get told all the time to get professional help now they need to pay a professional to babysit the professional.
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 Lived to tell about it and will never do it again
Posts: 5409
| TrailGirl - 2017-07-03 1:49 PM You know...whether or not she went to see the horse or work the horse with the trainer...something is wrong here. The horse should not be worse off after 6 months of training. Period. If things were going that badly the trainer should have been communicating that with the client. Not just taking their money and continuing on. Makes you wonder if the trainer themselves was even the one working with the horse. I guess I find it hard to believe that most are responding as if the owner is the key one at fault here.
I agree with what trailgirl is saying. It is the trainers job to let you know if there is a problem. In a perfect world we would all be able to go check on our horses in trainig a couple of times a month BUT we don't live in a perfect world.
I have sent horses out and had them call me if they had any concerns or complaints about the horse. Otherwise I don't want to bother them more then every week and a half or so.
I don't have a problem with her stating her disapointment on line. In this day and age people providing a service should expect it. You can bet if she was happy with the results the trainer would darn sure want her to post that.
To me this screams of a trainer taking advantage of a long distance owner. Flame Away or whatever 
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | To bad we're hearing only one side to this story on here.. Would love to hear the other side to this.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2017-07-03 5:35 PM
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| euchee - 2017-07-03 5:18 PM TrailGirl - 2017-07-03 1:49 PM You know...whether or not she went to see the horse or work the horse with the trainer...something is wrong here. The horse should not be worse off after 6 months of training. Period. If things were going that badly the trainer should have been communicating that with the client. Not just taking their money and continuing on. Makes you wonder if the trainer themselves was even the one working with the horse. I guess I find it hard to believe that most are responding as if the owner is the key one at fault here. I agree with what trailgirl is saying. It is the trainers job to let you know if there is a problem. In a perfect world we would all be able to go check on our horses in trainig a couple of times a month BUT we don't live in a perfect world.
I have sent horses out and had them call me if they had any concerns or complaints about the horse. Otherwise I don't want to bother them more then every week and a half or so.
I don't have a problem with her stating her disapointment on line. In this day and age people providing a service should expect it. You can bet if she was happy with the results the trainer would darn sure want her to post that.
To me this screams of a trainer taking advantage of a long distance owner. Flame Away or whatever
I have to laugh... You send your horse off for 6 months and never ONCE go ride with the trainer. Even when you pick it up???? That is ridiculous. She said after a few months the trainer was saying the horse was not doing well. Ummm red flag as a horse owner... maybe I need to dig and see what is up. Go visit with the trainer or communicate with them what is going on. Then make the decision if the horse is not fitting well with the trainer. I can tell you my horses are my kids and if my horse, that I raised is getting called a bad egg after so many months there is a very big red flag. Plus I am spending hundreds to a person. I will be there to see what is up. To many people get themselves into these problems by not physically being involved. Just like all the farrier problems out there with bad ones. Become some what educated in what services you are paying for. You dont need to be an expert but ASK questions and pay attention to the process. ESPECIALLY when you are dealing with living things!!!! |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-07-03 5:38 PM euchee - 2017-07-03 5:18 PM TrailGirl - 2017-07-03 1:49 PM You know...whether or not she went to see the horse or work the horse with the trainer...something is wrong here. The horse should not be worse off after 6 months of training. Period. If things were going that badly the trainer should have been communicating that with the client. Not just taking their money and continuing on. Makes you wonder if the trainer themselves was even the one working with the horse. I guess I find it hard to believe that most are responding as if the owner is the key one at fault here. I agree with what trailgirl is saying. It is the trainers job to let you know if there is a problem. In a perfect world we would all be able to go check on our horses in trainig a couple of times a month BUT we don't live in a perfect world.
I have sent horses out and had them call me if they had any concerns or complaints about the horse. Otherwise I don't want to bother them more then every week and a half or so.
I don't have a problem with her stating her disapointment on line. In this day and age people providing a service should expect it. You can bet if she was happy with the results the trainer would darn sure want her to post that.
To me this screams of a trainer taking advantage of a long distance owner. Flame Away or whatever  Edit to add" All horses are not cut out to be barrel horses.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2017-07-03 5:50 PM
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 4:29 PM 1DSoon - 2017-07-03 5:24 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 5:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt. I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others. I don't think I've been passive aggressive a moment in my life. I'm either happy (or at least ok ) with a situation or I'll be in your face about it. Posting something negative on FB isn't passive aggressive, it's pretty straight forward - your name is attached to it. Now here on BHW where we hide behind screen names can be a bit passive aggressive.
I wonder how many of those who are taking the OP to task for not going to ride the horse during the training period would REALLY have been willing to make a TWO THOUSAND mile round trip to do it.....because she has posted that the trainer was 1000 miles away ..... and IF this horse was such a "pig", a reputable trainer would have said COME GET YOUR HORSE and not keep taking the money. That being said, with only one side of the story, we don't "know" that the trainer didn't tell the OP to come get her horse.
Edited by NJJ 2017-07-03 5:53 PM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| kwanatha - 2017-07-03 5:17 PM
i am going to disagree with most on here. i think this is a pretty bad situation and I get tired of these types of problems being the owners fault. sorry but owners pay the "experts" to take care of their horse and to provide quality training. after 6 months you should be able to ride your horse outside the arena. you should be able to walk, jog, canter and have some body control. and a decent stop according to the horses abilty. the horse should pick up leads decently also.
I have used many trainers and some i have had to keep my eye on and quite frankly that makes them a low quality trainer and they get dumped. The good ones can have a horse dropped off and picked up months later looking good and riding well. If for some reason the horse is not progressing, it is the trainers resonsibilty to comunicate with the owner the lack of progress and ideas of why; and in a timely manner. maybe horse needs a vet or maybe it is a puke. then tell me.
some of my best expereinces have been: one horse i was told on day 3 that she was POS and it was my choice to pick up or move on. I stayed for 10 more days to finish the half month then the horse had a break though so continued. horse number 2 was POS after a week, brought it home and sold it. Another one was not doing well and the trainer told me the horse was having lameness issues like within two weeks. so it went to the vet.
there have been others but i am only commenting on the problems. I have one now that is a POS with tons of talent. I continue with him but am kept informed on him. He has had training on and off for a while and still shows progress he just needs attitude adjustments.
the point I am making here is NOT one of the good trainers took more than 2 weeks to size up the horse and give me an idea of what to expect and they were pretty much right about the horse. The difference here is I was infomred so I could save my money if I so chose.
I do not fully judge a trainer based on the successes. I judge them also by how they deal with the failures. These great trainers handled themselves perfectly and I do not hold it against them that the horse was a puke.
I do not have time to go for a weekly visit to keep tabs on a trainer and make sure he/she is doing their job. i am not their babysitter. they need to be the pro or lose my business.
It bothers me that the owner is the bad guy when the pro rips them off.
peeps get told all the time to get professional help now they need to pay a professional to babysit the professional.
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| NJJ - 2017-07-03 5:51 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 4:29 PM 1DSoon - 2017-07-03 5:24 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 5:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt. I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others. I don't think I've been passive aggressive a moment in my life. I'm either happy (or at least ok ) with a situation or I'll be in your face about it. Posting something negative on FB isn't passive aggressive, it's pretty straight forward - your name is attached to it. Now here on BHW where we hide behind screen names can be a bit passive aggressive.
I wonder how many of those who are taking the OP to task for not going to ride the horse during the training period would REALLY have been willing to make a TWO THOUSAND mile round trip to do it.....because she has posted that the trainer was 1000 miles away ..... and IF this horse was such a "pig", a reputable trainer would have said COME GET YOUR HORSE and not keep taking the money. That being said, with only one side of the story, we don't "know" that the trainer didn't tell the OP to come get her horse.
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2017-07-03 5:57 PM
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Member
Posts: 28
| I do have screen shots of our communication about the horse from day 1. There was nothing to raise any huge red flags to me. Unless being a pill but starting to get it. After the chiro the horse got better and had good days and bad days and Most horses have good days and bad days. The only huge red flag I got was when the trainer wanted me to meet them in town to pick up my horse instead of somewhere I could ride it Unfortunately My truck broke down on the way and I had to hire a hauler to bring my horse home.
Edited by So Lost 2017-07-03 6:02 PM
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Member
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| WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-07-03 5:56 PM NJJ - 2017-07-03 5:51 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 4:29 PM 1DSoon - 2017-07-03 5:24 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 5:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others. I don't think I've been passive aggressive a moment in my life. I'm either happy (or at least ok ) with a situation or I'll be in your face about it. Posting something negative on FB isn't passive aggressive, it's pretty straight forward - your name is attached to it. Now here on BHW where we hide behind screen names can be a bit passive aggressive.
I wonder how many of those who are taking the OP to task for not going to ride the horse during the training period would REALLY have been willing to make a TWO THOUSAND mile round trip to do it.....because she has posted that the trainer was 1000 miles away ..... and IF this horse was such a "pig", a reputable trainer would have said COME GET YOUR HORSE and not keep taking the money. That being said, with only one side of the story, we don't "know" that the trainer didn't tell the OP to come get her horse.
Note ! My truck broke down on the way to get it! I had to hire a hauler! |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | NJJ - 2017-07-03 5:51 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 4:29 PM 1DSoon - 2017-07-03 5:24 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 5:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others. I don't think I've been passive aggressive a moment in my life. I'm either happy (or at least ok ) with a situation or I'll be in your face about it. Posting something negative on FB isn't passive aggressive, it's pretty straight forward - your name is attached to it. Now here on BHW where we hide behind screen names can be a bit passive aggressive.
I wonder how many of those who are taking the OP to task for not going to ride the horse during the training period would REALLY have been willing to make a TWO THOUSAND mile round trip to do it.....because she has posted that the trainer was 1000 miles away ..... and IF this horse was such a "pig", a reputable trainer would have said COME GET YOUR HORSE and not keep taking the money. That being said, with only one side of the story, we don't "know" that the trainer didn't tell the OP to come get her horse.
I would have traveled to see and ride my horse, if I'm paying my hard earn money to have my horse train by a well know trainer you bet your booty I would go at least once to check out my horse and see how hes doing with the trainer around the 3 month mark and if I didnt like what I was seeing I would be bringing him/she home.. 6 months is a long time without seeing my horse in person  |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| So Lost - 2017-07-03 5:59 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-07-03 5:56 PM NJJ - 2017-07-03 5:51 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 4:29 PM 1DSoon - 2017-07-03 5:24 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 5:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others. I don't think I've been passive aggressive a moment in my life. I'm either happy (or at least ok ) with a situation or I'll be in your face about it. Posting something negative on FB isn't passive aggressive, it's pretty straight forward - your name is attached to it. Now here on BHW where we hide behind screen names can be a bit passive aggressive.
I wonder how many of those who are taking the OP to task for not going to ride the horse during the training period would REALLY have been willing to make a TWO THOUSAND mile round trip to do it.....because she has posted that the trainer was 1000 miles away ..... and IF this horse was such a "pig", a reputable trainer would have said COME GET YOUR HORSE and not keep taking the money. That being said, with only one side of the story, we don't "know" that the trainer didn't tell the OP to come get her horse.
You finally said you got a hauler after I posted. I still would have made an attempt to go ride once at some point in his training. |
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 Saint Stacey
| Just because someone is a good trainer, that doesn't mean they know squat about keeping a horse mentally and physically sound. BOTH you AND the trainer failed this horse. You mentioned ulcers, trainer said maybe, treated, horse was good and then went back to being miserable. Did a vet ever diagnose the horse? When a horse is doing good and then they start having problems...there is always a reason why. Horses don't start acting up for no reason. They just don't. The trainer told you something was off. If the trainer wasn't a good enough horseman to figure it out, then you should have asked more questions and looked out for your horses best interest a little more.
I have a horse with two cracked vertebrae that was with two of the best "trainers" in the country prior to my buying him. I have no doubt his previous owner wasn't aware of what had happened. The horse had to have been showing that something wasn't right and he was ignored. We found the problem when he all the sudden stopped clocking and simply couldn't turn. Had I ignored what he was trying to tell us, by now I'd have had a horse that was going to be neurological and hating his job. Too many people simply think a horse is being an ass if they stop working. They start thumping on them and the horse hates everything about their life. Then it's a long road to bring them back around.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| I work pretty closely with my trainer. My last mare was a pill. She put about 20 days on her and basically said the horse was worthless. Now she had already updated me after the first week and said something was not right with the horse. She was not confident the horse would amount to anything. Put a little more time on her and both the trainer and I decided to throw in the towel. But the trainer kept me up to date on everything. Had me out there watching so she could show me the issues she was having with her. I would say she was very honest and upfront in assessing my horse. She did not want me to waste money and time on her even if that meant she would lose out on money herself.
I'm not sure how OP'S trainer spent 6 months with this horse before deciding the horse was not going to cut it. OP said the horse is not turning on the forehand or haunches. After 6 months of training! No freaking way. Also, why no videos? We have the ability to get video so easily. Lots of trainers do them weekly and send them to the owners. It's not rocket science. Get a tripod or sit the phone on something while it records.
It just sounds like this trainer was milking the owner to me.
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | This whole post makes me appreciate who i sent my mare too. I'm extremely sensitive to how busy she but I have gotten consistent reports, went and rode 3x's, rode my mare at a clinic, saw my mare at shows, and even when my mare showed some soreness I got the update and I gave confirmation of the treatment. My mare is broke, likes, her job, and gains weight when being hauled, LOL.
I'm sorry this happened. I still would have made the trip to ride my horse regardless of miles. ***It's too much money not too, especially if the end game is for you to compete on the horse. ***
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I'm a Cry Baby
Posts: 3781
Location: n.c. | It would be really good if everyone would read the OP's whole post. Not just parts of it. |
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Lived to tell about it and will never do it again
Posts: 5409
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-07-03 6:20 PM So Lost - 2017-07-03 5:59 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-07-03 5:56 PM NJJ - 2017-07-03 5:51 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 4:29 PM 1DSoon - 2017-07-03 5:24 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 5:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others. I don't think I've been passive aggressive a moment in my life. I'm either happy (or at least ok ) with a situation or I'll be in your face about it. Posting something negative on FB isn't passive aggressive, it's pretty straight forward - your name is attached to it. Now here on BHW where we hide behind screen names can be a bit passive aggressive.
I wonder how many of those who are taking the OP to task for not going to ride the horse during the training period would REALLY have been willing to make a TWO THOUSAND mile round trip to do it.....because she has posted that the trainer was 1000 miles away ..... and IF this horse was such a "pig", a reputable trainer would have said COME GET YOUR HORSE and not keep taking the money. That being said, with only one side of the story, we don't "know" that the trainer didn't tell the OP to come get her horse.
She stated in her original post that her truck broke down on the way and she had to hire a hauler. |
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Lived to tell about it and will never do it again
Posts: 5409
| runningk - 2017-07-04 8:09 AM It would be really good if everyone would read the OP's whole post. Not just parts of it.
So true |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | LOL, for the ones that say to reread her first post, I did and and she edit to say the horses age and added she had to hire a hauler, if you guys had read it befor she edit, she didnt say anything about hiring a hauler just that her truck broke down and had to wait another 2 weeks to get her horse nothing about a hauler at that time, for all we knew she waited to get her truck fixed and then went to pick the horse up, hummmm she made her post at 11.11 am and edit it at 6: pm.
Just saying for the ones saying to reread her post, some of us were not late to this party..  |
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Member
Posts: 28
| Yes I edited my post to say that I hired a hauler and stated later that I had to hire a hauler. I thought i had stated it in my original post but was mistaken, so yes I did edit it. My original post did state the horses age. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | So Lost - 2017-07-04 10:06 AM Yes I edited my post to say that I hired a hauler and stated later that I had to hire a hauler. I thought i had stated it in my original post but was mistaken, so yes I did edit it. My original post did state the horses age.
Did the hauler have to meet the trainer in town to pick up your horse like he was going to do with you? |
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | I would have posted the trainer's name by now. Then file a small claims suit for my fees. There is nothing acceptable about this being the results of 6 months professional training. If the horse was just a stubborn pig with a bad attitude the trainer should have known it within a month and called the owner to pick him up. Total rip off. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Here is my two cents.
No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time.
Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it.
As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse.
Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training.
I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Vickie - 2017-07-04 10:26 AM I would have posted the trainer's name by now. Then file a small claims suit for my fees. There is nothing acceptable about this being the results of 6 months professional training. If the horse was just a stubborn pig with a bad attitude the trainer should have known it within a month and called the owner to pick him up. Total rip off. ^^^^ Even though we are only seeing one side of the story, this is EXACTLY why "some" well known trainers get a "free pass" ..... people jump all over the owner when things go bad. It is the TRAINER'S responsibility to evaluate the horse's progress; it is the TRAINER'S responsibility to send videos; it is the TRAINER'S responsibility to contact the owner if the horse is not doing well; it is the TRAINER'S responsibility to tell the owner to COME GET the horse......THAT is what the owner is paying for and should get for the money paid.
eta: Could she get a refund......more than likely, no .... since most judges are not well versed in equine activities, it would be a very hard case to prove negligence .... chalk it up to a valuable "life lesson" and move on.
Edited by NJJ 2017-07-04 11:05 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | The horse did not get to that point after 6 months. Meaning it was all fine until that day. The trainer had to know early on that this could the outcome. If the trainer did not communicate this to the owner then the trainer is at afault and they should refund.
If the trainer did communicate the problems and the owner said to continue then there is no refund due.
The reputable trainers I know, Chris Coffee, just to name one, will tell the owner at 30 or 45 days that they should come get the horse because it's not going to work out.
Most likely if this trainer is named there will problably be many stories just like this. But if there's not and this is an aberration, that will come to light too.
That's why the trainer should be named.
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Member
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| Thank you! NJJ
The trainer has possession of the horse and eyes on it every day. It is their call on how to care for the horse. They know what the horse needs better than me, because what I was doing may not work for the horse once it is in training.
If a horse is off, it is the trainers call to be horseman enough to tell if is a behavior issue or a physical issue and decide if it needs to see a vet. They see the horse every day. Even if I went up to see my horse for one day, once a month I couldn't make that call honestly, It is the trainer responsibility to communicate this sort of stuff to the owner. Vet, farrier, feed, supplements, chiro, time off, more rides those are all calls the trainer has to make.
I got written updates like I said before, not weekly but I did get plenty of photos of my horse, looking good so I wasn’t worried at all. Nothing to raise red flags.
I expected to get on my horse when I got it home and be able to have a nice little ride around the arena and check it out. Not have one completely sulled up. I honestly can’t wrap my mine around how you would even get one this bad especially since the horse was so easy to start in the first place.
Trust me if this trainer had told me my horse was a p.o.s, I would have brought it home in a heartbeat. Instead of wasting my money and the time.
If I have to be up a trainers butt, what is the point? If you are advertising yourself as a professional horseman you need to act like it. In the past I have started colts for other people and I know exactly how thankless a job it can be and how no one wants to pay and how everyone wants a 30 day miracle. Maybe that’s why I didn’t ride this trainer because I know what it’s like to be doing what they do. I fully understand the training process and the way things can go.
I probably gave this trainer more rein because of previous experience with them and trusted them 100%. About 5 yrs back I sent a rescue case to this trainer, like there wasn’t much hope for this particular horse, and told the trainer do what they can. I was in the middle of a move so again bad timing for me. The mare was aggressive, reactive, barely halter broke and would set back really bad. Most here would have said put her on a kill truck. She was nicely bred and I saw potential in her if a person could get through. I’d seen the work this trainer could do on videos and had spoken with the trainer so, I sent this mare.
We did 30 days at a time and I got updates regularly, the trainer did have someone helping then who could video regularly. The mare had her fair share of issues and the trainer shared every one, and was totally honest. One day she set back and the blocker tie ring didn’t release and the mare pulled back lunged forward and crushed her eye socket. Trainer called immediately got the mare all the care she needed. The mare was at the trainers vet for a very long time, as hauling her home wasn’t recommend by the vet and I didn’t have a vet locally who could deal with the care the mare needed around the clock so she didn’t lose her eye. After she was healed she went back to the trainer for a few more months. I had the mare shipped home. I got this mare back perfect ready to go haul and season. During training I was told every little issue this mare had, the trainer was totally forthcoming and honest. I expected the same honesty and professionalism with the horse I sent this year.
So here I am totally shocked at the horse I got back this time, One who was doing good before I sent it. No I wasn’t told about issues like this! Nothing even remotely like it. Did I expect this horse to be ready to haul and season? No, but I did expect to be able to actually ride decent.
Has anyone here ever rode a real old horse that has been used for those, nose to tail trail rides its whole life? That’s pretty much what my horse is like. No go, no whoa, no give. No explanation from the trainer, except for sorry, I can’t do anything about it ! ?
And I know there are three sides to every story. The nice thing about the era we live in, is we have text, facebook and e-mail. So it is pretty easy to produce proof and let people make their own decisions about what I was told. I am considering making the posts available so people can make their own judgement but I haven’t just yet.
Yes I feel totally burned by this trainer who I thought was a good person and good horseman. It seems this trainer has totally flaked out since I sent the last mare.
Someone had asked if the trainer met the hauler in town. Well that was another ordeal. Hauler was going to pick up at the trainer’s place. Then trainer was said they were going to the arena in town and would haul my horse, then said they left it home, so I think eventually they met somewhere.
The gal who hauled him home was a professional horsewoman. I am thankful everyday she was the one who got my horse home. The trainer didn’t even send a flake of hay with my horse for the 1,000 mile trip home. The hauler was an angel and gave my horse her hay and even some hydration hay. They gave my horse the royal treatment.
Edited by So Lost 2017-07-04 1:25 PM
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Member
Posts: 28
| Dang SKM you deleted your post.
YES I FAILED MY HORSE , trust me I am devastated that I did. I do feel personally responsible for that and beat myself up for that.
But I have to remind myself I was operating with the information given to me by the trainer.
IF the trainer didn't give me good information, and I didn't know it wasn't good information how am I supposed to know the right thing to do?
I'm not psychic. This is the second horse I sent out for training and this is the only trainer I've ever used. So I don't have the experience about how to spot if a trainer isn't doing their job.
If a trainer won't speak up till they are over their head that reflects on their level of professionalism.
Now that my horse is home I am taking it to a good vet that deals with a lot of race horses and I can have a full work up to see if there is anything physical going on that could cause its behavior.
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| euchee - 2017-07-04 8:22 AM WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-07-03 6:20 PM So Lost - 2017-07-03 5:59 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-07-03 5:56 PM NJJ - 2017-07-03 5:51 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 4:29 PM 1DSoon - 2017-07-03 5:24 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 5:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others. I don't think I've been passive aggressive a moment in my life. I'm either happy (or at least ok ) with a situation or I'll be in your face about it. Posting something negative on FB isn't passive aggressive, it's pretty straight forward - your name is attached to it. Now here on BHW where we hide behind screen names can be a bit passive aggressive.
I wonder how many of those who are taking the OP to task for not going to ride the horse during the training period would REALLY have been willing to make a TWO THOUSAND mile round trip to do it.....because she has posted that the trainer was 1000 miles away ..... and IF this horse was such a "pig", a reputable trainer would have said COME GET YOUR HORSE and not keep taking the money. That being said, with only one side of the story, we don't "know" that the trainer didn't tell the OP to come get her horse.
FYI she edited her origional post... and added she got a hauler. At first it just said her "truck broke down and when she finaly got the horse home 2 weeks later..." nothing about a hauler. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| I am not sure what the point of this post is. Both are at fault. The trainer should have been honest after so many months that the horse wasnt working out and solost should have made some attempt to physically see the horse. I cant wrap my mind around why you would send a horse off 100 miles or 1000 miles and never ride with the trainer at least once. To me its pointless to send the horse off and never learn exactly what the horse knows and how to cue it after spending all that money. For that part I do not feel sorry for solost. Also if the horse was being difficult take it to the vet. For all the money spent for 6 months of training what is the minor cost of a simple lameness with a wellnes exam??? A horse doesnt just stop working especially when they have a good demeaner. As a horse trainer it is their job to recognize that. From a trainer I would expect good communicate with the owner and regular updates. As a horse owner is it their job to be proactive with the process and ask questions. Both screwed themselves. Solost didnt ask enough questions and the trainer did a horrible job communicating with solost. Solost is out a lot of money and the trainer just lost a customer that can leave a bad review. |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-07-04 2:30 PM I am not sure what the point of this post is. Both are at fault. The trainer should have been honest after so many months that the horse wasnt working out and solost should have made some attempt to physically see the horse. I cant wrap my mind around why you would send a horse off 100 miles or 1000 miles and never ride with the trainer at least once. To me its pointless to send the horse off and never learn exactly what the horse knows and how to cue it after spending all that money. For that part I do not feel sorry for solost. Also if the horse was being difficult take it to the vet. For all the money spent for 6 months of training what is the minor cost of a simple lameness with a wellnes exam??? A horse doesnt just stop working especially when they have a good demeaner. As a horse trainer it is their job to recognize that. From a trainer I would expect good communicate with the owner and regular updates. As a horse owner is it their job to be proactive with the process and ask questions. Both screwed themselves. Solost didnt ask enough questions and the trainer did a horrible job communicating with solost. Solost is out a lot of money and the trainer just lost a customer that can leave a bad review.
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Saint Stacey
| I did delete it, lol! I'm surprised you saw it because I deleted it just a few seconds after submitting it. Figured that in the grand scheme of things, my opinion didn't really matter. I sincerely hope everything works out for you in the end, no matter what you decide to do. |
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To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | I can't understand why so many on here immediately blamed the OP. Why would someone not feel they could safely leave a horse with a trainer without constantly dropping in and checking on your horse? How is it the owners fault for trusting a trainer? Is this is what the world is coming to - watch close or it is your fault when I screw you over?
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 Peat and Repeat
Posts: 2773
Location: IN MY OWN LITTLE WORLD AT LEAST THEY KNOW ME HERE | Big girl panties on and flame suit is ready ;0)))
I'm sorry but 6 months and doesn't know anything? Really?
Evaluation is a easy thing within the first 2wks to 30 days period.
Doesn't take "Professional Trainer" to figure that one out!
2 sides? Always!
Communication stopped?
Huge huge flag no ,"training" was happening!
I'm sorry but guilty folks don't talk, it's hiding the fact that works not being done!!!!
Some of these so called trainers will and do suck money monthly out of clients and do not ride them.
FACT!!!!
Give a rehearsed spill to owners to get them to leave them longer.
FACT!
That's their living and sure a lot do just that.
FACT!
Know quite a few who do this.
FACT!
Yep you should've road tripped to go see....FACT
But you trusted this person.....?
My Daddy( a good honest man, trainer and prca calf roper, not his day job)
Said this--
Never trust anyone that makes their sole a living in the horse business!
I trust no one and I always do my homework where my animals and money goes!!!
I question everything and keep constant check.
I hold these chosen folks accountable!!!!
I use to break and train for the public and gave weekly updates and had clients to come weekly if they chose to come see me ride and work their ponies.
Yep refunded only 2 as the colts were cold backed broncs and sent them home.
Are you gonna get a refund?
Nope
You I believe got played and you paid.
People make me tired when they always blame the client and not the trainer!!!
Get your pony vet checked and let it rest a month or so before you
Do anything.
You have learned a valuable lesson in this life.
Good luck
Edited by Yakima 2017-07-04 5:07 PM
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Lived to tell about it and will never do it again
Posts: 5409
| Yakima, I think you are probably a very wise person as your dad sounds like he was also. I know several less then honest "professional" trainers. The OP does share some fault in this but the fact of the matter is that the Professional didn't hold up the integrity of the title that they should have. Lesson learned by all and now it is water under the bridge |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas |
I'm betting that if the trainer had done a great job the facebook post would have been welcomed... I don't know any of the parties involved but what I do know, is that if you want something done right, do it yourself. I've ridden outside horses in the past and if they weren't up to par, I can assure you that the owner heard about it in the first 30 days. I would never send a horse home without the owner riding with me first, regardless of the situation. And if it weren't possible, then I would have a step by step video sent home with the horse showing exactly how to work them and exactly where they were at in their training. It seems like no one takes pride in their work anymore. It is just a paycheck to so many people. Training horses is hard work and if you aren't up for the challenge then perhaps a "real job" would be more fitting. As for owners... why breed and buy young untrained horses if you aren't capable of getting them where they need to be? I've never quite understood that. Just buy a finished horse and you will know exactly where you're at and what you're dealing with. Just my opinion, and certainly not meant to offend anyone.
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I think the first mistake was sending the horse for more than 30 days. Sounds like the horse is blown/sulled up mentally. Typically when we put rides on our horses they get 30 days and then they get turned out. I would have sent him out for 30 days, turned out for the winter, and then back in the spring for another 30-60. |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | hammer_time - 2017-07-04 8:48 PM I think the first mistake was sending the horse for more than 30 days. Sounds like the horse is blown/sulled up mentally. Typically when we put rides on our horses they get 30 days and then they get turned out. I would have sent him out for 30 days, turned out for the winter, and then back in the spring for another 30-60.
this is what I do also.
By the time they are 12 they are trained up and ready go to work.
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | 1DSoon - 2017-07-04 9:46 PM hammer_time - 2017-07-04 8:48 PM I think the first mistake was sending the horse for more than 30 days. Sounds like the horse is blown/sulled up mentally. Typically when we put rides on our horses they get 30 days and then they get turned out. I would have sent him out for 30 days, turned out for the winter, and then back in the spring for another 30-60. this is what I do also.
By the time they are 12 they are trained up and ready go to work.
I seriously just laughed out loud.. just at 1d response..  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | runningk - 2017-07-04 7:09 AM It would be really good if everyone would read the OP's whole post. Not just parts of it.
I was going to post the same exact comment! I stop reading when they obviously haven't read everything that was said. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Silly Filly - 2017-07-05 11:36 AM
runningk - 2017-07-04 7:09 AM It would be really good if everyone would read the OP's whole post. Not just parts of it.
I was going to post the same exact comment! I stop reading when they obviously haven't read everything that was said.
obviously you came to the show a little late. She added and edited her original post long after people started replying. |
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 Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | Vickie - 2017-07-04 10:26 AM I would have posted the trainer's name by now. Then file a small claims suit for my fees. There is nothing acceptable about this being the results of 6 months professional training. If the horse was just a stubborn pig with a bad attitude the trainer should have known it within a month and called the owner to pick him up. Total rip off.
I am usually a pushover - too nice - give someone the benefit of the doubt, but this is my gut feeling with this post.
And I gotta say - I have put my camera in a tree to film myself working the poles and barrels for a horse of my own that I am training for myself, so that I can see the progress - if you are in the business of training horses, you should be able to take/send videos.
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Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | So Lost - 2017-07-03 3:18 PM Yes, I shouldn't have trusted the trainer, even though previously I had a great experience with them, and when the updates were slow I should have been a thorn in this trainers side. I should have said get me videos or I'm sending a hauler. Instead I was understanding about how many horses this trainer had and the long hours they were working and every other excuse I was given for why updates were slow, or vauge and they couldn't get video.
I should have traveled up to see and ride my horse, unfortunately because of my work right now I can't be gone for much more than 24 hours or I would have.
As far as riding different yes everyone rides a bit different but horsemanship is horsemanship. I grew up buying, retraining and selling sale barn horses, catch riding at sales, I usually train all of my own horses but the property I have now isn't set up for it. I have ridden everything from cutters, reiners, western pleasure horses to dressage and jumpers. So I can pretty much guaranteed this isn't a case of the horse has my number.
I asked the trainer about the issues I was having as soon as I rode the horse and they had no explanation, at all. Didn't even say it was odd for the horse or suggest maybe I was doing something wrong. They just said they feel bad the horse is like that. I can't even wrap my head around how a person can take a horse who was going pretty good for me before I sent it, into this dead sided, hard mouthed, animal
As far as my post on social media, well it pretty much said that my horse didn't do well in training and I am disappointed and will have to start the horse from scratch and retrain it. I also said I was feeling sort of ripped off.
I guess I should have told everyone the horse was perfect and retrained it in silence and let the trainer take the credit when the horse is retrained and running because it faux pas to share any experience with a trainer that was bad.
I am wondering how we can read a book, go to a restaurant, hotel, watch a movie, fly in a plane, buy a truck, buy a house, have a lawn care service, pay for child care, buy a saddle, buy a pad - pay money for all sorts of things and write a reviews all over the internet, but you can't share your bad experience about horse sellers/trainers? |
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Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 4:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others.
When I really think about it - you are exactly right, Lonely. |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | Not sure why you are asking for opinions, whenever someone says you're wrong you justify your actions or position.
Edited by *almost there* 2017-07-08 12:28 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up.
YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | *almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
Are you kidding???? It takes an "exceptional trainer" to call and tell you to come get your horse???? NO ...... it takes an HONEST trainer! And as far as her making excuses....not so....she HAD used this trainer before so she had faith (albeit misplaced) in THIS trainer. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| NJJ - 2017-07-08 9:25 AM
*almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
Honest yes, but it does take an exceptional trainer to be honest with themselves. Most trainers feel the stress and pressure that they apply to themself as well as the owner.
Most think they can get through to the horse.
Most are well aware that if they call someone to pick up their POS that that owner will be bashing them publically as they took my money and didn't train my horse, so they keep trying.
Most trainers cannot afford on giving refunds, as training is to a lucrative business. Even if the horse is a POS, and the owner comes and picks up the horse, the trainer probably spent more time with that horse, and has probably earned their money, but the horse owner will ask for it back, then the trainer feels bad, the owner may have verbally assaulted them, then will go and slander them on the Internet this last part is not directed at the op,
I have seen lots of it on the internet.
So yes I do believe it takes an exceptional trainer to make the call.
For every 1 good horse owner there are 10 bad ones.
Yes I know there are a few bad trainers, the way I see it if the trainer has an ad up multiple places, probably not a good choice as the exceptional trainers don't have to advertise. |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | NJJ - 2017-07-08 7:25 AM *almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
I find it interesting that this trainer did fabulous with one horse and then all of a sudden what shotty with another horse? What changed? I've been sending horses off for years to different trainers and have done training myself. No two horses will every break out and train the same. People's expectations are generally greater than their horses God given ability. I could see where a trainer feels the pressure to perform and keep customers happy so no, they don't want to say "by the way your horse isn't good" and yes, they keep on trying to train to meet the owners expectations.
Edited by *almost there* 2017-07-08 4:42 PM
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 Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 9:22 AM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I think you should of went and checked on the progress every month of the horse when you paid them..............I think we as horse lovers and horse owners need to have more due diligence. 6 months is a long time for a colt to be in training in my own opinion too...............hopefully your horse will come around..... I think after 2 or 3 months a young horse gets burned out on work and arena work.......... |
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Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | the horse trainer knew way before 6 months of training if they didn't think the horse would work or whatever..............30 days and the trainer should of gave the client a opinion like that........ |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| That's why it is important for trainers to set reasonable expectations. The owner and trainer need to discuss what what the plans are for a horse. Usually a trainer can tell initially if a horse is on the right path and if the owner might be expecting too much. Usually temperament and conformation the first big factors. Then you assess the horses natural ability and aptitude. Not every horse will go on to be a top reining horse but that doesn't mean they cannot get to a point that they are reasonably good at lower level reining, or dressage or whatever else the owner is wanting. A good trainer will turn away an unreasonable client.
My trainer was and is on occasion worried that my gelding might not be coming along quickly enough. She has not even had him for 20 days. He isn't doing anything bad or dangerous, just takes a little longer especially since another trainer had him before us. I told her to take it back a few steps. Take him for trail rides and mix it up a bit. I am not expecting a finished horse in two months of training on a 3 year old. She had never had an owner ask her to stop doing arena work before. |
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Fact Checker
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Location: Displaced Iowegian | *almost there* - 2017-07-08 4:39 PM NJJ - 2017-07-08 7:25 AM *almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
I find it interesting that this trainer did fabulous with one horse and then all of a sudden what shotty with another horse? What changed? I've been sending horses off for years to different trainers and have done training myself. No two horses will every break out and train the same. People's expectations are generally greater than their horses God given ability. I could see where a trainer feels the pressure to perform and keep customers happy so no, they don't want to say "by the way your horse isn't good" and yes, they keep on trying to train to meet the owners expectations.
LOL....you are DEAD wrong. I sent a four year old off to a trainer and in 30 days, she called and gave me an HONEST opinion....I drove 500 miles to pick him up ...... Those of you who incessantly blame the "owners" are the ones who "allow" "well known" shady trainers to keep on screwing folks....heaven fobid that anyone should be able to speak out against a trainer ...... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| NJJ - 2017-07-08 5:50 PM
*almost there* - 2017-07-08 4:39 PM NJJ - 2017-07-08 7:25 AM *almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
I find it interesting that this trainer did fabulous with one horse and then all of a sudden what shotty with another horse? What changed? I've been sending horses off for years to different trainers and have done training myself. No two horses will every break out and train the same. People's expectations are generally greater than their horses God given ability. I could see where a trainer feels the pressure to perform and keep customers happy so no, they don't want to say "by the way your horse isn't good" and yes, they keep on trying to train to meet the owners expectations.
I am not blaming the owner, and I am not blaming the trainer in this instance. As no one knows their side of the story or the true story. Would I have done things differently, absolutely, will the owner do things differently the next time, I hope so.
Chalk it up to lesson learned. I would have left it off of Facebook, but I also don't do drama. The op needs to be careful as the trainer can sue for slander as everyone is sue happy.
I find the worst people are the horse owners who bash the trainer till the end of earth then turn around and send two more horses to them to be trained a year after.
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Member
Posts: 28
| I'd love to know why the trainer said my horse was great at beginning and they loved it, to bar none hands down the worst horse they have ever stepped foot on ? This was according to the trainers own posts not mine?
As far as slander? Well I'm not worried about that either, the trainer would have to have the money to sue and I have all of our conversations about the horse, none of my statements are false or lies or half-truths.
And as for a professional not wanting to tell the owner their horse is a pig, or that they cannot get along with the horse or train it. Well that’s when it’s time to put on your big girl panties and do the job you are paid for, and you can "save face" and "Sugar Coat" things, and still get your point across. There are ways to tactfully tell the owner that their horse is a pig or not going to make it in an event or you don't want to train it. Its pretty simple really, I can think up half a dozen ways right off the top of my head.
This trainer could have told me straight up that they thought my horse was a pig or what ever, even on day 2 and I would have happily had it shipped back home, without a second though because I trusted this trainer’s opinion, advice, & intentions. I never would have said a peep about it and would have totally gave the trainer the benefit of the doubt.
However milking me for 6 months and then sending back a horse that I will have to start from the ground up to get back on track and zero explanation for it? Is that really ok to most people here?
I guess I'm kinda shocked that there is no bar or standards trainers are held to especially by this community. I understand you can’t guarantee to make a horse a winner but as a professional you can generally judge what you can do with a horse in a given amount of time.
I in no way shape or form was expecting a finished horse in six months but I did expect a basic solid foundation, especially since the horse was being ridden before I sent it!
I’ve gotten many pm’s from people who have been in my shoes and agree what went down was wrong but didn’t want to face the ridicule from posting.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| So Lost - 2017-07-09 8:01 AM
I'd love to know why the trainer said my horse was great at beginning and they loved it, to bar none hands down the worst horse they have ever stepped foot on ? This was according to the trainers own posts not mine?
As far as slander? Well I'm not worried about that either, the trainer would have to have the money to sue and I have all of our conversations about the horse, none of my statements are false or lies or half-truths.
And as for a professional not wanting to tell the owner their horse is a pig, or that they cannot get along with the horse or train it. Well that’s when it’s time to put on your big girl panties and do the job you are paid for, and you can "save face" and "Sugar Coat" things, and still get your point across. There are ways to tactfully tell the owner that their horse is a pig or not going to make it in an event or you don't want to train it. Its pretty simple really, I can think up half a dozen ways right off the top of my head.
This trainer could have told me straight up that they thought my horse was a pig or what ever, even on day 2 and I would have happily had it shipped back home, without a second though because I trusted this trainer’s opinion, advice, & intentions. I never would have said a peep about it and would have totally gave the trainer the benefit of the doubt.
However milking me for 6 months and then sending back a horse that I will have to start from the ground up to get back on track and zero explanation for it? Is that really ok to most people here?
I guess I'm kinda shocked that there is no bar or standards trainers are held to especially by this community. I understand you can’t guarantee to make a horse a winner but as a professional you can generally judge what you can do with a horse in a given amount of time.
I in no way shape or form was expecting a finished horse in six months but I did expect a basic solid foundation, especially since the horse was being ridden before I sent it!
I’ve gotten many pm’s from people who have been in my shoes and agree what went down was wrong but didn’t want to face the ridicule from posting.
I did not see it in any other posts but have you taken your horse to the vet and him looked over? Before starting over you should get that done first. Any number of things could have put a stop to this horses progression. And after 6 months of pushing him he will be reluctant even after any pain issues have been addressed. |
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Member
Posts: 28
| I did not see it in any other posts but have you taken your horse to the vet and him looked over? Before starting over you should get that done first. Any number of things could have put a stop to this horses progression. And after 6 months of pushing him he will be reluctant even after any pain issues have been addressed.
The horse isn't obviously lame or showing classic signs of ulcers. I will be taking my horse to a clinic with a lameness locator and while I'm there I'll have them check for ulcers as well.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| So Lost - 2017-07-09 8:01 AM
I'd love to know why the trainer said my horse was great at beginning and they loved it, to bar none hands down the worst horse they have ever stepped foot on ? This was according to the trainers own posts not mine?
As far as slander? Well I'm not worried about that either, the trainer would have to have the money to sue and I have all of our conversations about the horse, none of my statements are false or lies or half-truths.
And as for a professional not wanting to tell the owner their horse is a pig, or that they cannot get along with the horse or train it. Well that’s when it’s time to put on your big girl panties and do the job you are paid for, and you can "save face" and "Sugar Coat" things, and still get your point across. There are ways to tactfully tell the owner that their horse is a pig or not going to make it in an event or you don't want to train it. Its pretty simple really, I can think up half a dozen ways right off the top of my head.
This trainer could have told me straight up that they thought my horse was a pig or what ever, even on day 2 and I would have happily had it shipped back home, without a second though because I trusted this trainer’s opinion, advice, & intentions. I never would have said a peep about it and would have totally gave the trainer the benefit of the doubt.
However milking me for 6 months and then sending back a horse that I will have to start from the ground up to get back on track and zero explanation for it? Is that really ok to most people here?
I guess I'm kinda shocked that there is no bar or standards trainers are held to especially by this community. I understand you can’t guarantee to make a horse a winner but as a professional you can generally judge what you can do with a horse in a given amount of time.
I in no way shape or form was expecting a finished horse in six months but I did expect a basic solid foundation, especially since the horse was being ridden before I sent it!
I’ve gotten many pm’s from people who have been in my shoes and agree what went down was wrong but didn’t want to face the ridicule from posting.
Your first comment about the trainer loving the horse, then at the end saying it is the worst she has ever faced and you not understanding how this could be shows inexperience on your part.
I have owned two horses that fit that description to a T. The first one, she was a quick learner doing well till the 3 week mark then couldn't lope a circle, no soundness issues. It took me 4 months to lope nice circles on a loose rein. Some days only rode her 5 min.
The other the trainer had her, first two weeks was great, then she sulled up and he kicked her out for a month. He said one of them was going to die. The month break was what she needed, she turned out to be an average barrel horse and a wicked rope horse.
So yes I can definitely see how a trainer can love on one then it can be the spawn of satan, I owned two.
Was the trainer right on keeping the horse, Idk it all depends on the trainers interpretation of the conversations you two had.
Did the trainer try to tell you things were going bad, from what you said she did acknowledge things did turn south, again it all depends on the interpretation of the conversation.
As for the soundness check, I believe she told her something wasn't right and you had her worked on. I have been in that same situation, they sent me a video, I sent it to my vet, and my vet told me to pull him. I switched out horses. I don't believe trainers should be in charge of hauling to and from vets, it take valuable time from other clients horses, if you were paying extra then that is something you discuss with the trainer. I am one that has a good relationship with my vet, so I send all assessments to him to review.
Do you have the right to be mad, only you can answer that.
I would put that negative energy into constructive energy and figure out how you would handle things the next time, closer trainer, finding the balance between overbearing and hands off trainer.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| So Lost - 2017-07-09 11:45 AM
I did not see it in any other posts but have you taken your horse to the vet and him looked over? Before starting over you should get that done first. Any number of things could have put a stop to this horses progression. And after 6 months of pushing him he will be reluctant even after any pain issues have been addressed.
The horse isn't obviously lame or showing classic signs of ulcers. I will be taking my horse to a clinic with a lameness locator and while I'm there I'll have them check for ulcers as well.
A horse doesn't need to be obviously lame to be sore, how they are tracking, how they stop, do they swish their tails, all these can be signs of soreness.
I had a horse tore the joint capsule out of the joint and she wasn't lame.
I had one who had a splint that needed to be pinned that wasn't lame.
I had one who had a crushed collateral ligament, crushed splint that the trainer (one I no longer use due to this) that I could tell he was sore, trainer didn't, and this trainer was well respected in his speciality, good referenced by my vet, and a good friend. I wasn't impressed he never picked up on it, but I am more frustrated with myself that I didn't listen to my gut and pick him up immediately. |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | NJJ - 2017-07-08 3:50 PM *almost there* - 2017-07-08 4:39 PM NJJ - 2017-07-08 7:25 AM *almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
I find it interesting that this trainer did fabulous with one horse and then all of a sudden what shotty with another horse? What changed? I've been sending horses off for years to different trainers and have done training myself. No two horses will every break out and train the same. People's expectations are generally greater than their horses God given ability. I could see where a trainer feels the pressure to perform and keep customers happy so no, they don't want to say "by the way your horse isn't good" and yes, they keep on trying to train to meet the owners expectations.
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | So Lost - 2017-07-09 6:01 AM I'd love to know why the trainer said my horse was great at beginning and they loved it, to bar none hands down the worst horse they have ever stepped foot on ? This was according to the trainers own posts not mine?
As far as slander? Well I'm not worried about that either, the trainer would have to have the money to sue and I have all of our conversations about the horse, none of my statements are false or lies or half-truths.
And as for a professional not wanting to tell the owner their horse is a pig, or that they cannot get along with the horse or train it. Well that’s when it’s time to put on your big girl panties and do the job you are paid for, and you can "save face" and "Sugar Coat" things, and still get your point across. There are ways to tactfully tell the owner that their horse is a pig or not going to make it in an event or you don't want to train it. Its pretty simple really, I can think up half a dozen ways right off the top of my head.
This trainer could have told me straight up that they thought my horse was a pig or what ever, even on day 2 and I would have happily had it shipped back home, without a second though because I trusted this trainer’s opinion, advice, & intentions. I never would have said a peep about it and would have totally gave the trainer the benefit of the doubt.
However milking me for 6 months and then sending back a horse that I will have to start from the ground up to get back on track and zero explanation for it? Is that really ok to most people here?
I guess I'm kinda shocked that there is no bar or standards trainers are held to especially by this community. I understand you can’t guarantee to make a horse a winner but as a professional you can generally judge what you can do with a horse in a given amount of time.
I in no way shape or form was expecting a finished horse in six months but I did expect a basic solid foundation, especially since the horse was being ridden before I sent it!
I’ve gotten many pm’s from people who have been in my shoes and agree what went down was wrong but didn’t want to face the ridicule from posting.
I do not mean to come off as you are completely in the wrong, as I was not there for any of this in real time-- I can understand where you feel like you lost a lof of money, but I just simply mean until someone has a lot of experience training for the public, their perspectives are often very different. My best advice is to find a really good Buck Brannaman apprentice and take lessons and start over with. That horsemanship has saved a lot of horses. |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.
Unfortunately, it seems like there was a communication breakdown on both party's part.
I think it's as important for a trainer to interview a prospective customer as it is for the customer to interview the trainer. It's really hard to know what some clients expect without asking questions. Sometimes the customer going by just good reviews isn't enough.
I want to know what the client expects, what her riding style is, etc. If I don't think I can do a good job for you, I'm not going to ride your horse.
During the training process I also want to frequently assess the horse's progress and ask myself "would the owner be happy with the progress ?"
If for some reason a horse isn't progressing in a normal fashion I want the client know. The horse might need vet work, time off or a new career.
I had the same thing happen to me with a well known colt starter. I sent a really nice filly, got good reports and 1 video during a 3 mo. Period. When I picked up the filly she rode like she looked in the 45 day video. No skills, no buttons, not much but forward motion.
The only person I was mad at was MYSELF. I just "assumed" things would get done.
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| So Lost - 2017-07-03 3:18 PM
Yes, I shouldn't have trusted the trainer, even though previously I had a great experience with them, and when the updates were slow I should have been a thorn in this trainers side. I should have said get me videos or I'm sending a hauler. Instead I was understanding about how many horses this trainer had and the long hours they were working and every other excuse I was given for why updates were slow, or vauge and they couldn't get video.
I should have traveled up to see and ride my horse, unfortunately because of my work right now I can't be gone for much more than 24 hours or I would have.
As far as riding different yes everyone rides a bit different but horsemanship is horsemanship. I grew up buying, retraining and selling sale barn horses, catch riding at sales, I usually train all of my own horses but the property I have now isn't set up for it. I have ridden everything from cutters, reiners, western pleasure horses to dressage and jumpers. So I can pretty much guaranteed this isn't a case of the horse has my number.
I asked the trainer about the issues I was having as soon as I rode the horse and they had no explanation, at all. Didn't even say it was odd for the horse or suggest maybe I was doing something wrong. They just said they feel bad the horse is like that. I can't even wrap my head around how a person can take a horse who was going pretty good for me before I sent it, into this dead sided, hard mouthed, animal
As far as my post on social media, well it pretty much said that my horse didn't do well in training and I am disappointed and will have to start the horse from scratch and retrain it. I also said I was feeling sort of ripped off.
I guess I should have told everyone the horse was perfect and retrained it in silence and let the trainer take the credit when the horse is retrained and running because it faux pas to share any experience with a trainer that was bad.
I haven't read all the posts but why come on here, ask for opinions and then respond so defensively.
Yes, you should have checked on the horse in 6 months and should have been more adamant. You are paying them for training and should be getting updates.
Yes, it was uncalled for to post on social media. I don't know why everyone feels the need to post their issues on facebook. As many have already said, a lot of people will know who you are referring to.
Unless I misunderstood, doesn't sound like the horse came back worse? It only had 5-10 rides so I doubt it was moving off legs, wtl with perfection, etc. So in theory the horse just didn't learn anything which still sucks but you should have been more involved. |
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 Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | So what happened with this?
Did the OP pursue any further action?
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Member
Posts: 28
| I've only made two posts on my facebook regarding this situation, none mentioned the trainer, just my disappointment in my horse being dead sided, hard mouthed and barcey after six months with a professional and feeling I had been ripped off because the trainer wasn't honest about the problems they were having with my horse and was just collecting my money. Never posted on the trainers facebook, never got nasty with the trainer.
We couldn't negotiate a settlement so the Trainer blocked me on facebook. I took action to get some of my money back. Now the trainer is busy bashing me and embellishing their story about how awful I was and how the trainer paid for my grain, farrier, chiro, vet & paypal fees etc. When I actually paid for all of those and have proof of it. Now the trainer is going to ruin me and I'll never be able to sell another horse, find a trainer and they will make sure I was essentially black balled from the barrel racing world, calling me every name in the book.
But honestly this trainer can bash away, I expected it honestly because I've seen the trainer bash several others in the industry. I knew when I originally told the trainer I wasn't happy with the my horse and wanted an explanation, that this would happen.
Live and learn. Me and my horse are moving on to bigger and better things.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| The comments on here are entertaining. Sounds like you learned your lesson (a very hard one). If you do decide to send another one to a trainer. Make sure the horse is within 200 miles from ya. Then you can drop by and evaluate the situation a little better. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | Maybe I missed it somewhere, are there videos of this horse? In six months time surely you have a few videos and pictures of the horse's progress? I have sent them out for training before and had them work great and then sull all of a sudden. Unfortunately it happens. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | Wow I missed this one the first time around.
First off, slander does not apply in this case. It'd be libel (written)...and it'd be a hard case to prove since in order for it to be libel it would have to be proven that the comments and/or reviews of this trainer were false. If anything, I think the OP has a better chance of proving libel if it's true that the trainer is going around posting that the OP didn't pay for stuff and OP has proof they did.
OP you definitely learned a hard lesson on this one. Your original post, no it's not unreasonable to expect a horse to walk, trot, lope, stop, backup, yield fore and hind after 5 months. And I really don't think it's wrong to voice your opinion that you were disappointed. Does anyone read some of these yelp reviews for services and restaurants?? People are constantly voicing disappointment. It's up to the person reading those comments to determine whether or not the poster has a legit complaint or is just a constant complainer.
Anyhow, my main take is both parties needed to be proactive and in a sense work as a team to make sure expectations and results are communicated well. That obviously did not happen. If the OP's comment that he/she asked for videos and trainer couldn't provide...huge red flag. I'd pulled at that point. So from there on, I blame the owner for not stopping this sooner. But I actually think this trainer sounds like a joke based on the info from the post. Although you can't force people, I would never purposefully send a horse back without showing the owner what I've been doing, where the horse is in training, and what steps I would take next. Also, I've asked all clients to ride the horse at the end so I get a feel for their skill sets and handling and can actively give them advice and suggestions while they are on the horse in front of me. That way if they do come back with questions or problems, I'm better equipped to know how to answer and help them.
One thing's for sure, this was an entertaining thread to read through!
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 Too Skinny
Posts: 8009
Location: LA Lower Alabama | So Lost - 2017-08-08 10:15 AM I've only made two posts on my facebook regarding this situation, none mentioned the trainer, just my disappointment in my horse being dead sided, hard mouthed and barcey after six months with a professional and feeling I had been ripped off because the trainer wasn't honest about the problems they were having with my horse and was just collecting my money. Never posted on the trainers facebook, never got nasty with the trainer.
We couldn't negotiate a settlement so the Trainer blocked me on facebook. I took action to get some of my money back. Now the trainer is busy bashing me and embellishing their story about how awful I was and how the trainer paid for my grain, farrier, chiro, vet & paypal fees etc. When I actually paid for all of those and have proof of it. Now the trainer is going to ruin me and I'll never be able to sell another horse, find a trainer and they will make sure I was essentially black balled from the barrel racing world, calling me every name in the book.
But honestly this trainer can bash away, I expected it honestly because I've seen the trainer bash several others in the industry. I knew when I originally told the trainer I wasn't happy with the my horse and wanted an explanation, that this would happen.
Live and learn. Me and my horse are moving on to bigger and better things.
There are always two sides to the story and while I have read yours I have also read hers. This will only get more interesting from here. good luck to ALL involved but mainly the horse |
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Am I expecting too much?