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Posts: 725
  
| I really need some help. I'm in the middle of the busiest part of rodeo season of the year. But recently things have fallen apart. I will post our last 4-5 runs in order. This horse is my problem child, quirky, and having issue after issue. However, he has had a very thorough vet check in the last month, lameness, scope, (mental coordination, can't remember what it's called), teeth, chiro. He feels amazing warming up, collected and perfect in slow work and practice runs. He's had some increasingly bad gate issues which were resolved completely when I took him off of Platinum supplement.
Video 1. His first run of the year is always his best. Every time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5AgdydzWrA
Video 2-3. A couple typical runs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIE2GQkWA5k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iXgyXKk5y0
Video 4. we knock quite often due to me pulling too much on the backside.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU-O5t2HlMg
Video 5. I tried to push him past the barrel and this happened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pbbdi6ioWM
Run 6: I really regret not having a video of this but the day after run 5, he ran in like a freight train and I picked up to turn 3-4 strides before the barrel and felt resistance and checked him up, he fought harder and went to the fence on 1st, then made a diagonal to the left side of the 2nd barrel and towards the alley. There was no stopping him.
I have no idea what to do at this point. Never had this kind of issue before! Any help is greatly appreciated! |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. |
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Duct Tape Bikini Girl
Posts: 2554
| Behavior definitely indicates pain. Have his front hooves been xrayed for possible navicular issues? Checked for ulcers? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM
Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore.
This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Have you changed any tack on him, saddle,cinch, different shoer? |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 7:57 PM FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two.
Sounds like Uclers if he was doing all that. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 8:03 PM
Have you changed any tack on him, saddle,cinch, different shoer?
Nope, nothing has changed. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 8:07 PM
IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 7:57 PM FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two.
That's what I thought also, but his scope was clean and the vet said hindgut ulcers only happen when a horse has been on bute for a long time. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| On run 5 it just looked to be like you got past it and over corrected and pulled him on the wrong side. I have seen this a few times, it isn't the horse being bad just snaps back around to quick. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 8:15 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 8:07 PM
IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 7:57 PM FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two.
That's what I thought also, but his scope was clean and the vet said hindgut ulcers only happen when a horse has been on bute for a long time.
Nope, I have a filly who has never been on bute, but who developed hindgut ulcers per my vet. Treated for them and she was good to go. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | GLP - 2017-07-03 8:40 PM IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 8:15 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 8:07 PM IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 7:57 PM FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two. That's what I thought also, but his scope was clean and the vet said hindgut ulcers only happen when a horse has been on bute for a long time. Nope, I have a filly who has never been on bute, but who developed hindgut ulcers per my vet. Treated for them and she was good to go.
Well what ever is going on with this horse I hope that you get it figured out, looks like a nice one  |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
Location: Sweet Home Alabama | GLP - 2017-07-03 8:40 PM
IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 8:15 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 8:07 PM
IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 7:57 PM FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two.
That's what I thought also, but his scope was clean and the vet said hindgut ulcers only happen when a horse has been on bute for a long time.
Nope, I have a filly who has never been on bute, but who developed hindgut ulcers per my vet. Treated for them and she was good to go.
How do you treat hindgut ulcers? I've heard omprezole doesn't do anything for them. But I read that on the internet so not really a viable source.... |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| There's a product called Succeed that I've heard good things about for ulcers including hindgut.
What does his feeding program look like?
If you feel you've thoroughly gone through the lameness search, try a bag of MagRestore and cutting back on starch and sugar in feed. We have one it's made 180* of difference in, including how long he holds a chiro adjustment and really settled some of the quirks down - he's still our special child, but he is a lot more level now. We don't know if he is PSSM, although he has suspects on his papers, but he at least seems to be starch/sugar intolerant and magnesium deficient. Some of his issues on the pattern included increasingly bad gate issues and blowing completely off the second barrel sideways towards the first. |
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Location: South Dakota | Omeprazole does not work for hindgut ulcers...Succeed works very good, get the Vet Strength paste if possible for 30 day treatment. Also Gastrix, which is available from some vets and online, works good along with the Succeed. When my mare was diagnosed with hindgut ulcers, she had mild colic, off her feed, and explosive diarrhea. Zesterra is another product which helps the digestive system. |
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Regular
Posts: 50
| IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 8:15 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 8:07 PM
IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 7:57 PM FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two.
That's what I thought also, but his scope was clean and the vet said hindgut ulcers only happen when a horse has been on bute for a long time.
Had a horse with hind gut ulcers that never had bute. Took about a year to get him well. |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | I agree bleeding would be my first guess and then ulcers...and if it continues after you have addressed those then id be getting some legs and feet xrayed...oxygen has a good ulcer supp....the run that you hit barrels was you. ..looked like you dropped your outside rein way to soon....and it also looks like hes popping his front leads could be something....
Edited by mruggles 2017-07-04 11:56 AM
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 7:57 PM FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two.
Have you had his back x-rayed? That particular issue sounds like kissing spine. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Barnmom - 2017-07-04 11:56 AM IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 7:57 PM FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2017-07-04 12:11 PM
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Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | His first run of the year always being his best tells me something has been bothering him for a while, gets worse the more runs/ hauling he has. That could be anything from bleeding, ulcers to lameness. Also tells me he wants to be a good boy, just finally can't any more. Sorry thats not much help but I would sure start with his back, easy to rule out. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Barnmom - 2017-07-04 12:16 PM His first run of the year always being his best tells me something has been bothering him for a while, gets worse the more runs/ hauling he has. That could be anything from bleeding, ulcers to lameness. Also tells me he wants to be a good boy, just finally can't any more. Sorry thats not much help but I would sure start with his back, easy to rule out.
I agree. He looks like he is really wanting to please but physically can't.
I would treat for hind gut ulcers (Won't hurt.)
Then I would check for bleeding.
After those two were addressed I would check for kissing spine.
If all of those three things aren't your problem, I would turn out for a good 90 days and slowly bring him back after 90 days. He may just be burnt out. If after the 90 days you still have the same problems I would change his job...  |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| She was diagnosed with hindgut ulcers because we treated her for colic - a huge amount of fluids, staying overnight at the vet clinic until she pooped - she was still stretching out in pain, lying down with no rolling and her poop was black and although it had form, it was mucosy. My vet had me give her Succeed. It worked. I feed her alfalfa cubes, a little oats and grass hay. They have gone back twice in 3 years. The cause? We think stress - from taking her favorite away, extreme weather changes, etc.
I also have success with Gut Health with this mare.
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Veteran
Posts: 217
| My mare use to just be snotty and have a problem and act in pain. Switched her diet to a low starch/sugar diet and it's like a brand new horse. Stretches out, waits on cues, and overall much happier.
The new guy kept blowing out of second and running to the alley. I suspected bleeding because he refused the gate as well. Took him to the vet and started with a lameness exam. Bit the bullet and did x rays, has one fusing hock, and a bone chip in the other. I'll be exhibitioning him Friday night in hopes he realizes he isn't in pain anymore after injections and potentially running him Saturday if it goes well. Not saying that is what's wrong, but x-rays are good to have just in case. I passed on the scope cause my wallet was hurting after that trip |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | I would take him to a competent soundness vet and determine what you are dealing with----mind problem or body problem the go from there. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | I have done the very same thing as you in run 5. I knew the moment it happened that I caused it by pulling too hard and causing him to come back out on the same side of the turn. I also found out later that my horse's hocks were in really bad shape and got him injected. You might also check hocks. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Ashton94 - 2017-07-03 10:32 PM GLP - 2017-07-03 8:40 PM IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 8:15 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 8:07 PM IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-03 7:57 PM FLITASTIC - 2017-07-03 7:52 PM Only thing i can think of is bleeding. Sometimes horses will kind of run off if they think they will bleed. Sometimes horses, for whatever reason just don't like their jobs anymore to. I had a horse that was awesome awesome awesome and he just decided he didn't want to be a barrel horse anymore. This spring I took him to a barrel race and he acted p!ssed for about an hour after the run. tail swishing, kicking, pawing. The next rodeo he bucked the whole way home. I don't know why I didn't connect the two. That's what I thought also, but his scope was clean and the vet said hindgut ulcers only happen when a horse has been on bute for a long time. Nope, I have a filly who has never been on bute, but who developed hindgut ulcers per my vet. Treated for them and she was good to go. How do you treat hindgut ulcers? I've heard omprezole doesn't do anything for them. But I read that on the internet so not really a viable source....
THE GastroPLUS is great for hind gut. Message me if you want more details. Very affordable and has a money back guarantee. |
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 Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | How far off are your times - from the winning time....or from your best times at a particular arena? Really nice horse!! - some of it just seems like minor things caused some bobbles, but then you describing the bucking and other obvious irriatation/tail swishing is definitely a sign of more than that.
My horse, if sore, will be either hesitant to take off, or lunging to take off, like yours did in some videos.
Sometimes, it just seemed like he was crowded going into the barrel and has to pop off a little - sometimes your hands get really high up or way out to the side (reins too long?)....depending on the purchase length of the bit, if you get your hands out to the side, you are pushing the bit into the side of their mouth/cheek.
Sometimes it looks like you are setting him up too soon on the first, and then that one time where you turned back on the same side of the barrel, you were late setting for the turn...... just off on timing. I know you said that you were trying to push him past...but where were you looking? It's like he's really responsive to your body, like my horse - if I look past a barrel and don't set, he will overshoot - if I set too soon and look at the barrel, I will be fighting to keep him off it, so I can't be "lazy" in my cues - I've got to be right on and consistent.
Edited by txbredbr 2017-07-06 12:55 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| txbredbr - 2017-07-06 12:51 PM
How far off are your times - from the winning time....or from your best times at a particular arena? Really nice horse!! - some of it just seems like minor things caused some bobbles, but then you describing the bucking and other obvious irriatation/tail swishing is definitely a sign of more than that.
My horse, if sore, will be either hesitant to take off, or lunging to take off, like yours did in some videos.
Sometimes, it just seemed like he was crowded going into the barrel and has to pop off a little - sometimes your hands get really high up or way out to the side (reins too long?)....depending on the purchase length of the bit, if you get your hands out to the side, you are pushing the bit into the side of their mouth/cheek.
Sometimes it looks like you are setting him up too soon on the first, and then that one time where you turned back on the same side of the barrel, you were late setting for the turn...... just off on timing. I know you said that you were trying to push him past...but where were you looking? It's like he's really responsive to your body, like my horse - if I look past a barrel and don't set, he will overshoot - if I set too soon and look at the barrel, I will be fighting to keep him off it, so I can't be "lazy" in my cues - I've got to be right on and consistent.
Thank you everyone for the great advice! I will be taking him to the vet in 2 weeks (the first opening) for a thorough check of his hocks, back, and lungs!
As for your questions, he has clocked like normal up until the last 3 runs. After the 5th video I took him to a jackpot to see what he would do and we ended up 2nd in the 1D. I still believe there is an underlying problem, sometimes he handles the pain sometimes he doesn't. I'll be running him on bute to see if there's any difference.
Also txbredbr thanks for the insight! I know there's alot I can do as a rider to help with the issues in the run, and thank you! |
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| ulcers.
I am not a dealer of THE but have used the gastroplus and it has been a life saver. And way more cost effective than other treatments. Might be all you have to spend and he will feel soooooo much better. and if nothing has changed, then go to vet.
that's just me......hope you get it figured out. Sure a nice horse.
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-06 1:08 PM txbredbr - 2017-07-06 12:51 PM How far off are your times - from the winning time....or from your best times at a particular arena? Really nice horse!! - some of it just seems like minor things caused some bobbles, but then you describing the bucking and other obvious irriatation/tail swishing is definitely a sign of more than that.
My horse, if sore, will be either hesitant to take off, or lunging to take off, like yours did in some videos.
Sometimes, it just seemed like he was crowded going into the barrel and has to pop off a little - sometimes your hands get really high up or way out to the side (reins too long?)....depending on the purchase length of the bit, if you get your hands out to the side, you are pushing the bit into the side of their mouth/cheek.
Sometimes it looks like you are setting him up too soon on the first, and then that one time where you turned back on the same side of the barrel, you were late setting for the turn...... just off on timing. I know you said that you were trying to push him past...but where were you looking? It's like he's really responsive to your body, like my horse - if I look past a barrel and don't set, he will overshoot - if I set too soon and look at the barrel, I will be fighting to keep him off it, so I can't be "lazy" in my cues - I've got to be right on and consistent.
Thank you everyone for the great advice! I will be taking him to the vet in 2 weeks (the first opening ) for a thorough check of his hocks, back, and lungs! As for your questions, he has clocked like normal up until the last 3 runs. After the 5th video I took him to a jackpot to see what he would do and we ended up 2nd in the 1D. I still believe there is an underlying problem, sometimes he handles the pain sometimes he doesn't. I'll be running him on bute to see if there's any difference. Also txbredbr thanks for the insight! I know there's alot I can do as a rider to help with the issues in the run, and thank you!
Since I saw one of your videos was from Leon (tough pen to nail the first in, I think, and talk about a lot of atmosphere!), I want to throw something out here. Did you make a bunch of back-to-back runs over the 4th weekend? I know my gray horse was SUPER muscle sore yesterday when he got massaged and he only ran twice over the 4th, but was in the trailer for 1,300 miles. If you hauled a lot over the 4th and that's when he fell apart, it could just be simple soreness and fatigue from the miles and the runs. Shoot even Clifford, my bulletproof horse, was sore and tired after trips to 4 rodeos and almost 1,400 miles on the road. |
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Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | Hopefully, you can come back with a good update for us!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| rodeowithjoker - 2017-07-07 6:35 AM
IowaCanChaser - 2017-07-06 1:08 PM txbredbr - 2017-07-06 12:51 PM How far off are your times - from the winning time....or from your best times at a particular arena? Really nice horse!! - some of it just seems like minor things caused some bobbles, but then you describing the bucking and other obvious irriatation/tail swishing is definitely a sign of more than that.
My horse, if sore, will be either hesitant to take off, or lunging to take off, like yours did in some videos.
Sometimes, it just seemed like he was crowded going into the barrel and has to pop off a little - sometimes your hands get really high up or way out to the side (reins too long?)....depending on the purchase length of the bit, if you get your hands out to the side, you are pushing the bit into the side of their mouth/cheek.
Sometimes it looks like you are setting him up too soon on the first, and then that one time where you turned back on the same side of the barrel, you were late setting for the turn...... just off on timing. I know you said that you were trying to push him past...but where were you looking? It's like he's really responsive to your body, like my horse - if I look past a barrel and don't set, he will overshoot - if I set too soon and look at the barrel, I will be fighting to keep him off it, so I can't be "lazy" in my cues - I've got to be right on and consistent.
Thank you everyone for the great advice! I will be taking him to the vet in 2 weeks (the first opening ) for a thorough check of his hocks, back, and lungs! As for your questions, he has clocked like normal up until the last 3 runs. After the 5th video I took him to a jackpot to see what he would do and we ended up 2nd in the 1D. I still believe there is an underlying problem, sometimes he handles the pain sometimes he doesn't. I'll be running him on bute to see if there's any difference. Also txbredbr thanks for the insight! I know there's alot I can do as a rider to help with the issues in the run, and thank you!
Unfortunately I don't think that is his issue. I only went to 2 out of the 4, and my run last night after a week off was worse then the previous ones. I tried bute and he had worst issues at the gate that I've ever experienced. He would rear, spin, and run off in the other direction with his head in the air! Sadly I am turning him out and giving him a break until I can figure out what's going on. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Another update: I took him to a jackpot barrel race in between rodeos and he was a differnt horse, calm, focused, and his old self. Clocked 2nd in the 1D, but at rodeo's he's a monster! Nothing changed, even slack with no crowd he gets worked up. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 713
Location: ND | Just a thought, I tried buting my mare and it made her worse (more hot).. turned out to be ulcers. Bute will upset their stomach. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | If horses have Ucler's and your giving them Bute, your setting their insides on fire with that Bute, I would not be giving Bute untill you find out their problems first..Rule out uclers first. |
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Regular
Posts: 53
| RidinOnFaith35 - 2017-07-07 4:53 PM
Just a thought, I tried buting my mare and it made her worse (more hot).. turned out to be ulcers. Bute will upset their stomach.
This is exactly what I was going to say. Get some aloe Vera juice from Walmart. 30ccs on feed. What are you feeding ? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-07 5:08 PM
If horses have Ucler's and your giving them Bute, your setting their insides on fire with that Bute, I would not be giving Bute untill you find out their problems first..Rule out uclers first.
I did not know that! It seems like a major clue tho and since he acted worse than ever with bute I will definitely get some UlcerGuard or Gasteo Plus! Hopefully he will get the bute out of his system but I have him aloe tonight and will tomorrow also!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Probarrels - 2017-07-07 7:26 PM
RidinOnFaith35 - 2017-07-07 4:53 PM
Just a thought, I tried buting my mare and it made her worse (more hot).. turned out to be ulcers. Bute will upset their stomach.
This is exactly what I was going to say. Get some aloe Vera juice from Walmart. 30ccs on feed. What are you feeding ?
He gets Brome/Alfalfa hay and Renew Gold. Can you give the Aloe 2x per day? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
| Op you should go read my "what would you suspect if" thread. I thought we had some similar symptoms when I read your thread. |
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What is Happening?