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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
 
| I need some advice. I'm helping a trainer work out his horse, I guess I'm considered a loper but the schedule is not consistent. The big issue I'm having is that I'm helping him sell a horse. Very well trained mare, reining trained and nice trail horse, can work cows and do the trail challenge courses. She's great, but she does have PSSM, she's 15 and is cold backed if you don't ride her consistently. He wants $4800. No one is wanting to buy, she is listed everywhere. I'm convinced that he wants too much money for her, but I haven't told that to him. He is blaming me, and saying the ad is written poorly, but my opinion is that the horse just isn't worth that much money. I think $2500 is fair.
How would I bring this to his attention? He is completely convinced that it's my fault the horse isn't selling, but the truth is she's listed everywhere and I've spent my own money putting her on the nicer websites.
Another issue I am having is that I'm supposed to be paid $10 a ride. He hasn't paid me in 3 weeks. I ride for him 3 days a week. He always says the money is coming but never gets it to me.
More details of it is that he's a very lazy trainer and only works with the horse the week before it goes home. He's too fat to ride, so that's why I'm there. I basically jut want to sell this horse for him and slowly cut the relationship ties, but I also don't want him to not pay me...Sorry for long post. I'm a little intimidated by him so I need an outside opinion. |
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Member
Posts: 28
| I'd cut your losses and leave now before you are owed more. You can't help the mare unless you buy her yourself.
Edited by So Lost 2017-07-04 7:14 PM
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Member
Posts: 28
| I just got educated about shady trainers |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | So hes not being honest about this mare? Was her being cold backed put in the ad as her being PSSM too? Sounds to me hes taken advantaged of you for being to nice, I would cut my loses now and move on to someone that will appreciate you being a honest person, find you a honest trainer that you can work for, you dont need someone like this in your life. Get out now befor someone finds out the kind of trainer he is, you dont want this to haunt you later down the road. I dont think hes planning on paying you.. How old are you? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:35 PM
So hes not being honest about this mare? Was her being cold backed put in the ad as her being PSSM too? Sounds to me hes taken advantaged of you for being to nice, I would cut my loses now and move on to someone that will appreciate you being a honest person, find you a honest trainer that you can work for, you dont need someone like this in your life. Get out now befor someone finds out the kind of trainer he is, you dont want this to haunt you later down the road. I dont think hes planning on paying you.. How old are you?
I was told to put the PSSM part in, not the cold backed. I am 21 years old...I just feel very obligated to get this mare sold, and he promised me a small cut in it. He's always saying he's overwhelmed etc so I want to help him. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:38 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:35 PM So hes not being honest about this mare? Was her being cold backed put in the ad as her being PSSM too? Sounds to me hes taken advantaged of you for being to nice, I would cut my loses now and move on to someone that will appreciate you being a honest person, find you a honest trainer that you can work for, you dont need someone like this in your life. Get out now befor someone finds out the kind of trainer he is, you dont want this to haunt you later down the road. I dont think hes planning on paying you.. How old are you? I was told to put the PSSM part in, not the cold backed. I am 21 years old...I just feel very obligated to get this mare sold, and he promised me a small cut in it. He's always saying he's overwhelmed etc so I want to help him.
Why do you feel obligated to this person? I would be worried since you are doing the ads for this mare and not having her being cold backed in the ads somebody is going to get hurt trying this mare and then your name will be draged threw the mud. If hes not paying you now for what you have done for him hes not going to be giving you any money if hes does get this mare sold. Dont be using your money for his ads, you sound like a really sweet girl.. Are you putting your name and number on the ads? |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I would not want my name associated in any way with a trainer like that, the money is not worth it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:44 PM
KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:38 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:35 PM So hes not being honest about this mare? Was her being cold backed put in the ad as her being PSSM too? Sounds to me hes taken advantaged of you for being to nice, I would cut my loses now and move on to someone that will appreciate you being a honest person, find you a honest trainer that you can work for, you dont need someone like this in your life. Get out now befor someone finds out the kind of trainer he is, you dont want this to haunt you later down the road. I dont think hes planning on paying you.. How old are you? I was told to put the PSSM part in, not the cold backed. I am 21 years old...I just feel very obligated to get this mare sold, and he promised me a small cut in it. He's always saying he's overwhelmed etc so I want to help him.
I guess I feel obligated because I've always been very good to my bosses and want what is best for them. I've never had to work with someone that's trying to scam me. My name and number are on the ad. Another weird part of this whole story is he doesn't want his name associated with this mare as he doesn't want to offend the previous owner. More I think about it, the weirder that seems because selling horses is a normal thing to do. |
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 Quarter Horse HIstorian
Posts: 2878
Location: Aubrey, Texas | Honey, you are young and have your whole horse-life ahead of you. Old sins cast long shadows- he doesn't want his name on the ads because if the mare bucks someone off and gets them hurt, it will be you they come after, not him. Something like that can haunt your reputation for a long time. He's a grown man- he needs to do what he has to do to make his business work; you can't fix it for him. Let the ads expire. You've tried to help him but he's not helping himself.
Edited by cloverleaf 2017-07-04 8:05 PM
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 No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | Big red flag if his name is not on the ad. You are going to be left with the bad name if the horse is not found to be cold back until AFTER the sale. Get away from this guy asap for your own protection. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:57 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:44 PM KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:38 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:35 PM So hes not being honest about this mare? Was her being cold backed put in the ad as her being PSSM too? Sounds to me hes taken advantaged of you for being to nice, I would cut my loses now and move on to someone that will appreciate you being a honest person, find you a honest trainer that you can work for, you dont need someone like this in your life. Get out now befor someone finds out the kind of trainer he is, you dont want this to haunt you later down the road. I dont think hes planning on paying you.. How old are you? I was told to put the PSSM part in, not the cold backed. I am 21 years old...I just feel very obligated to get this mare sold, and he promised me a small cut in it. He's always saying he's overwhelmed etc so I want to help him. I guess I feel obligated because I've always been very good to my bosses and want what is best for them. I've never had to work with someone that's trying to scam me. My name and number are on the ad. Another weird part of this whole story is he doesn't want his name associated with this mare as he doesn't want to offend the previous owner. More I think about it, the weirder that seems because selling horses is a normal thing to do.
Well this boss sure in the He** dont deserve someone as nice as you to be helping him out, theres a reason he dont want his name on the ads, sounds like hes a very shady person and may have screw others over in horse deals, please dont be using your name and number, cause if someone gets hurt its all going to be on you my Dear.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 6:11 PM
KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:57 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:44 PM KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:38 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:35 PM So hes not being honest about this mare? Was her being cold backed put in the ad as her being PSSM too? Sounds to me hes taken advantaged of you for being to nice, I would cut my loses now and move on to someone that will appreciate you being a honest person, find you a honest trainer that you can work for, you dont need someone like this in your life. Get out now befor someone finds out the kind of trainer he is, you dont want this to haunt you later down the road. I dont think hes planning on paying you.. How old are you? I was told to put the PSSM part in, not the cold backed. I am 21 years old...I just feel very obligated to get this mare sold, and he promised me a small cut in it. He's always saying he's overwhelmed etc so I want to help him. I guess I feel obligated because I've always been very good to my bosses and want what is best for them. I've never had to work with someone that's trying to scam me. My name and number are on the ad. Another weird part of this whole story is he doesn't want his name associated with this mare as he doesn't want to offend the previous owner. More I think about it, the weirder that seems because selling horses is a normal thing to do.
I'm starting to realize that. Now I just have to figure out how to tell him. I don't know why I didn't think of the liability aspect, and that that the horse bucking and hurting someone will be on me. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 8:24 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 6:11 PM
KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:57 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:44 PM KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:38 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-04 5:35 PM So hes not being honest about this mare? Was her being cold backed put in the ad as her being PSSM too? Sounds to me hes taken advantaged of you for being to nice, I would cut my loses now and move on to someone that will appreciate you being a honest person, find you a honest trainer that you can work for, you dont need someone like this in your life. Get out now befor someone finds out the kind of trainer he is, you dont want this to haunt you later down the road. I dont think hes planning on paying you.. How old are you? I was told to put the PSSM part in, not the cold backed. I am 21 years old...I just feel very obligated to get this mare sold, and he promised me a small cut in it. He's always saying he's overwhelmed etc so I want to help him. I guess I feel obligated because I've always been very good to my bosses and want what is best for them. I've never had to work with someone that's trying to scam me. My name and number are on the ad. Another weird part of this whole story is he doesn't want his name associated with this mare as he doesn't want to offend the previous owner. More I think about it, the weirder that seems because selling horses is a normal thing to do.
I'm starting to realize that. Now I just have to figure out how to tell him. I don't know why I didn't think of the liability aspect, and that that the horse bucking and hurting someone will be on me.
I would take the adds down and walk away, tell him you are on to other opportunities. You don't have to explain anything to him. |
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Quarter Horse HIstorian
Posts: 2878
Location: Aubrey, Texas | Put it back on him- say that since he can't pay you, you've had to take another job. And stay far away from him. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
| cloverleaf - 2017-07-04 6:31 PM
Put it back on him- say that since he can't pay you, you've had to take another job. And stay far away from him.
That's a good thing to say to him. |
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | Wow.this guy is a real piece of work. He is using you big time. |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| cloverleaf - 2017-07-04 9:31 PM
Put it back on him- say that since he can't pay you, you've had to take another job. And stay far away from him.
Exactly. You don't owe him an explanation; he already knows why you'd be leaving. He's a user. Be prepared for manipulation tactics (don't give in if he promises "more"). |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | Oh dear, please get away as soon as possbile. This situation is never going to get better. Just like others have said, cut all losses and get away as soon as possible. He doesn't deserve an employee as hard working and kind as you. I know the money sounds good and im sure you need it just like anyone else but sometimes the money just isnt worth it. It'll help you in the long run. It does seem extremely sketchy to me that he doesn't want anything to do with any part of the sale ad. He doesn't want his name on it for a reason. Is he like this with all sale horses? I mean if he's that crappy of a trainer, how is he still in business? I for one would be Livid if i knew i was paying a trainer and my horses wasn't even being rode by him. *nothing against you* but thats the whole reason people send their horses to training in the first place, unless its clearly stated upfront that others will be on the horse. Good luck, i hope you can stand up for yourself to him! he sounds like a bully!!! |
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| Run far away! I once worked for a trainer that would camp on a horse for the week before it went home, it would sit in a stall for the first 3 weeks it was there and the week before it went home he'd work that sucker into the ground. And he was always going to pay me "next week"....I was young and stupid and hung around for 6 months. Never saw a dime....It won't change, he won't pay you, and you'll regret wasting anymore time and energy working with this "trainer" |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | What happens when things go south with this guy? When he makes it look like you didn't want to listen to authority, when he makes it look like the entire ad was your idea? When he blames someone getting hurt from this mare on you?
How will you get a job then? This guy is 50 shades of crazy. No way would I be associated with him in anyway.
Your only responsibility is yourself. You will see horses like the mare all the time being misrepresented and the only thing you can do is to inform people IF THEY ASK YOU DIRECTLY once you leave this guys place. Trainers misrepresent horses all the time and while that is wrong, you will see it more when you're working on the backside of things. Find you a trainer who represents them honestly and stick to them like glue.
Trainers talk. Every trainer around you knows who you are. I promise. They're watching your every move.
If you don't cut your loses now, no one will pick you up as a loper. He will make sure of that. Seen it happen multiple times over the years. One wrong move and you're out a job for life.
The fact that you're 21 and telling a trainer how to price his horses is a red flag for me. Listen to authority. You may think you know what the horse is worth but horses are worth whatever someone will pay for them. So you may only want to pay $2500 for this horse but someone would pay $4800. Guarenteed.
My advice to you: cut your loses and find a reputable trainer in the area to learn from. And for goodness sake don't tell a trainer how to price their horses. It's not your place and it's a quick way to get fired...... 
ETA: Sorry I'm late to the party. I see now you are thinking of leaving. Good for you, dear!!!!!!
Edited by IRunOnFaith 2017-07-05 8:47 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 555
Location: In the rockies. | cloverleaf - 2017-07-05 7:31 AM Put it back on him- say that since he can't pay you, you've had to take another job. And stay far away from him.
DITTO!!! 
Take the ads down you paid for them.
Don't even think about him again! You will be a lot better off.
Lesson learned.
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | BALE----he is not gonna pay you anyway !!!! He obviously does not do what he says pertaining to anything else, why would you think that he would in this instance. |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:57 PM I guess I feel obligated because I've always been very good to my bosses and want what is best for them. I've never had to work with someone that's trying to scam me. My name and number are on the ad. Another weird part of this whole story is he doesn't want his name associated with this mare as he doesn't want to offend the previous owner. More I think about it, the weirder that seems because selling horses is a normal thing to do.
You REALLY can't be that naive .... he doesn't want his name associated with the horse because if someone gets hurt...YOU are the one on the hook for the bad mouthing...... he is USING you and getting the benefits from your work ethic. Walk up to him TODAY and say .... You owe me $$$$ for my work and the ads that I have paid for and I want the money TODAY.....no more excuses.
If you don't....you get what you deserve ....... a life lesson! |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | NJJ - 2017-07-05 2:38 PM KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-04 7:57 PM I guess I feel obligated because I've always been very good to my bosses and want what is best for them. I've never had to work with someone that's trying to scam me. My name and number are on the ad. Another weird part of this whole story is he doesn't want his name associated with this mare as he doesn't want to offend the previous owner. More I think about it, the weirder that seems because selling horses is a normal thing to do. You REALLY can't be that naive .... he doesn't want his name associated with the horse because if someone gets hurt...YOU are the one on the hook for the bad mouthing...... he is USING you and getting the benefits from your work ethic. Walk up to him TODAY and say .... You owe me $$$$ for my work and the ads that I have paid for and I want the money TODAY.....no more excuses.
If you don't....you get what you deserve ....... a life lesson!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
| I told him that I couldn't work for him because I wasn't getting paid timely. He replied asap and said he's 'had my money for weeks' and when I asked if I could meet him for it (we live 5 miles apart) he said he was busy. Then he said he was sorry. But I'm not going to work for him again and don't want to deal with this #%#$% show. |
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Quarter Horse HIstorian
Posts: 2878
Location: Aubrey, Texas | If I were you, I would cut my losses and cut off communication with him. However, if you must talk to him again, there is a technique for dealing with manipulative people (I learned this when I was a teacher; it was actually taught in grad school) called the "broken record." It goes like this: "Johnny, sit down please." (Johnny) "But he hit me first!" "Johnny, sit down, please." (Johnny) "You always pick on me! Why aren't you mad at him?" "Johnny, sit down please." And so on until you wear him down. If he can draw you into an argument, he will likely win because he is adept at it. If he can't draw you in, he will quit because it becomes work for him and he will get bored. SO, your new mantra is, "I can't help you anymore, I've had to take another job." Statement of fact, no excuses, no wiggle room. Don't be hurt if you look up in two weeks' time and see another girl riding for him. Life is full of tough lessons- ask me how I know! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
| cloverleaf - 2017-07-05 8:02 PM
If I were you, I would cut my losses and cut off communication with him. However, if you must talk to him again, there is a technique for dealing with manipulative people (I learned this when I was a teacher; it was actually taught in grad school) called the "broken record." It goes like this: "Johnny, sit down please." (Johnny) "But he hit me first!" "Johnny, sit down, please." (Johnny) "You always pick on me! Why aren't you mad at him?" "Johnny, sit down please." And so on until you wear him down. If he can draw you into an argument, he will likely win because he is adept at it. If he can't draw you in, he will quit because it becomes work for him and he will get bored. SO, your new mantra is, "I can't help you anymore, I've had to take another job." Statement of fact, no excuses, no wiggle room. Don't be hurt if you look up in two weeks' time and see another girl riding for him. Life is full of tough lessons- ask me how I know!
Interesting I will keep that in mind. I think that would be a good strategy in dealing with him because I have noticed he gets very pushy. |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | You are young - the most important thing you can learn to do is say no. No explanation needed, just no. And let your no be no and move on. |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | So you feel obligated to do favors for him but he doesn't feel equally obligated to pay you for work you have already done? His bills are more important than yours? Been there, done that. He is NEVER going to change, this cycle will go on and on. Find your self-respect, firmly demand you are paid in full, find an employer that has half a shred of respect for you.
Edited by AllAroundRider 2017-07-06 4:04 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Take the ads down and get away. This guy sounds like a crook. Is this a well known trainer? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 678
Location: Canada | A GOOD trainer knows what a horses market value is and would know the local conditions. If the horse was priced fairly and accurately then it would sell. A GOOD trainer would want his name on that horse even if it isn't that great. Not all horses are athletic, or easy to ride, and a GOOD trainer would be able to explain that and help find a home for the horse that was appropriate. A GOOD trainer pays his staff on time to ensure that horses are looked after, staff is happy, and clients are happy with the results
A SHADY trainer will bash someone else for writing a "poor ad." A SHADY trainer will try to hide information about a horse, their history or medical issues. A SHADY trainer says the "cheques" in the mail.
You went there to learn something and what you learned is the exact definition of a shady trainer.
You need to tell your boss that you need to be paid immediately (which you likely won't be --- sorry) and then take down all of those ads you put up with your contact information. He can write his own ads and sell his own horses from now on.
Don't stay there any longer! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
| SloRide - 2017-07-06 2:43 PM
Take the ads down and get away. This guy sounds like a crook. Is this a well known trainer?
Fairly well known in my state. He has a very easy market of the old ladies that have over horsed themselves and they love him. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 710
| RunNitroRun - 2017-07-06 6:35 PM
A GOOD trainer knows what a horses market value is and would know the local conditions. If the horse was priced fairly and accurately then it would sell. A GOOD trainer would want his name on that horse even if it isn't that great. Not all horses are athletic, or easy to ride, and a GOOD trainer would be able to explain that and help find a home for the horse that was appropriate. A GOOD trainer pays his staff on time to ensure that horses are looked after, staff is happy, and clients are happy with the results
A SHADY trainer will bash someone else for writing a "poor ad." A SHADY trainer will try to hide information about a horse, their history or medical issues. A SHADY trainer says the "cheques" in the mail.
You went there to learn something and what you learned is the exact definition of a shady trainer.
You need to tell your boss that you need to be paid immediately (which you likely won't be --- sorry) and then take down all of those ads you put up with your contact information. He can write his own ads and sell his own horses from now on.
Don't stay there any longer!
Thank you. He almost convinced me to work for him again today but I read this and I'm going to text him and say no. I do need the money, but not at this cost. He tried to guilt me and say he needed me and a bunch of other stuff but it's not worth it. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | KPwuvsOliver - 2017-07-06 11:08 PM RunNitroRun - 2017-07-06 6:35 PM A GOOD trainer knows what a horses market value is and would know the local conditions. If the horse was priced fairly and accurately then it would sell. A GOOD trainer would want his name on that horse even if it isn't that great. Not all horses are athletic, or easy to ride, and a GOOD trainer would be able to explain that and help find a home for the horse that was appropriate. A GOOD trainer pays his staff on time to ensure that horses are looked after, staff is happy, and clients are happy with the results A SHADY trainer will bash someone else for writing a "poor ad." A SHADY trainer will try to hide information about a horse, their history or medical issues. A SHADY trainer says the "cheques" in the mail. You went there to learn something and what you learned is the exact definition of a shady trainer. You need to tell your boss that you need to be paid immediately (which you likely won't be --- sorry) and then take down all of those ads you put up with your contact information. He can write his own ads and sell his own horses from now on. Don't stay there any longer! Thank you. He almost convinced me to work for him again today but I read this and I'm going to text him and say no. I do need the money, but not at this cost. He tried to guilt me and say he needed me and a bunch of other stuff but it's not worth it.
Good for you, it feels good to stand up for yourself, you will be worth so much more to someone else, you got that drive to want to be a good hard working girl, this man sounds like a taker and dont care for anyone but himself.. Tell him if you wanted to work for free that you will go to a Charitie group and donate your time there if hes still bugging you to come ride for him. Just start putting the word out that you are looking for a new job to start working horses with someone that needs a hard working girl like you, Good Luck |
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Working for difficult trainer.