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 Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
  
Location: S. California Beach | Good morning BHW
I have already had the conversation with my vet who had some great ideas but wanted to reach out some more.
Said horse is a 19 year old (pretty semi-retired) with some soundness issues that I have managed for 7 years (no pain issues). He has always been an "ON" type personality but not hot and marginally better in his old age. He is ridden maybe 3 to 4 times a month (usually a mile or two trail ride by the kiddo/10) at a walk. Once every few months we go to an obstacle/sensory course that the kiddo loves. Hes been hauled all over the country, has done extreme cowdoy races with me and is generally not bothered by much.
Last few times, he has been a bit on the muscle with the kiddo (who then gets frustrated but I walk him through to keep it all calm). Edit: the last few times he was also sedated. Yesterday we had to swap horses this weekend becasuse oldie was a nut. I rode him and the horse was a nervous mess (washed out, refusing and scared of going over a ground pole). I can feel why the kid gets frustrated and dont want to kill his desire to ride (which is already minimal). He did have a blast on my baby after the swap.
Ive tried the follwing sedation (and combos thereof):
Resperine (not concurrent with the below)
Ace
Xylazine
Ace+Zylazine (3cc ea)
Dermosadan Gel (1.5cc)
Every combo seems to give him the exact opposite reaction and makes him more nervous and untypically flighty. I give the correct time out (20-30 min before we even get to this place) and never give more after. No matter the sedation he seems to have the opposite reation.
I am back to square one and open to suggestions. I would really like to find something that not a sedative (clearly these dont work).
Edited by margoannrodeo 2017-08-07 11:32 AM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | margoannrodeo - 2017-08-07 11:28 AM Good morning BHW
I have already had the conversation with my vet who had some great ideas but wanted to reach out some more.
Said horse is a 19 year old (pretty semi-retired) with some soundness issues that I have managed for 7 years (no pain issues). He has always been an "ON" type personality but not hot and marginally better in his old age. He is ridden maybe 3 to 4 times a month (usually a mile or two trail ride by the kiddo/10) at a walk. Once every few months we go to an obstacle/sensory course that the kiddo loves. Hes been hauled all over the country, has done extreme cowdoy races with me and is generally not bothered by much.
Last few times, he has been a bit on the muscle with the kiddo (who then gets frustrated but I walk him through to keep it all calm). Edit: the last few times he was also sedated. Yesterday we had to swap horses this weekend becasuse oldie was a nut. I rode him and the horse was a nervous mess (washed out, refusing and scared of going over a ground pole). I can feel why the kid gets frustrated and dont want to kill his desire to ride (which is already minimal). He did have a blast on my baby after the swap.
Ive tried the follwing sedation (and combos thereof):
Resperine (not concurrent with the below)
Ace
Xylazine
Ace+Zylazine (3cc ea)
Dermosadan Gel (1.5cc)
Every combo seems to give him the exact opposite reaction and makes him more nervous and untypically flighty. I give the correct time out (20-30 min before we even get to this place) and never give more after. No matter the sedation he seems to have the opposite reation.
I am back to square one and open to suggestions. I would really like to find something that not a sedative (clearly these dont work).
What are you feeding him now? As in what type sweetfeed, pelleted, brand. Believe it are not feed can cause alot of what your talking about about being a hot and nervous boy.
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2017-08-07 12:09 PM
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | 1/2 flake alfalfa 1x a day
1 flake orchard
Free feed in a slow feeder bermuda
1 measureing cup of safe choice and forco
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | He gets zero hot feed, I only give him safechoice to mix forco and his meds.
Hes pretty ulcer prone and just finished a course of treatment (give maintenance).
Repserine gave him mad ulcers.
Edit: He's pretty chill all other times (just a go personality)
Edited by margoannrodeo 2017-08-07 12:18 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 682
Location: Northwest | Animal Element In The Zone |
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| I've had good luck with Confidence EQ - a gel your rub inside their nostrils about 30 minutes out. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Missouri | Animal Element in the zone paste works wonders. |
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One Grateful Mom
Posts: 2702
Location: wolverton,mn | My vet,Dr. Tracy Turner,recommended Zylkene |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I have a gelding thats always looking for a booger to spook at, I got him on B-1 crumbles and also give him Magnesium 5000, I even tryed Mare magic on him befor I got him started on the Magnesium and like how he was more focus and didnt spook at everything when I had him out riding around our pond/tank. I would stay away from drugs and try something all natural, try Mare Magic for a while and see how that works on him. On some it dont work but then you have the ones that it does work on. |
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 Lived to tell about it and will never do it again
Posts: 5409
| I like the B-1 crumbles also. You could get some injectable and give about 3 time during the week to see how he does. If he does good then go to the crumbles. That is the advice that was given to me by a very smart race horse trainer. He told me to stay away from the drugs, that B1 does wonders for some and no so much for others so there isn't a guarantee that it will work but it is cheap and worth a try. It totally turned my two horses around.
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | euchee - 2017-08-07 8:06 PM I like the B-1 crumbles also. You could get some injectable and give about 3 time during the week to see how he does. If he does good then go to the crumbles. That is the advice that was given to me by a very smart race horse trainer. He told me to stay away from the drugs, that B1 does wonders for some and no so much for others so there isn't a guarantee that it will work but it is cheap and worth a try. It totally turned my two horses around.
I agree with the B1 you can give the injections or the feed thru. On race horses I give 5ml NB4 and then 5ml the day of the race. I have a friend that's giving the horses a straight 10ml the morning of the race. I've not done that with my barrel horses but I have one that's pretty hot and may try it. If your going IV you must go very slow! |
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 Saint Stacey
| I've heard great things about CBD oil. That's next on my list to try for my hot horse. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | I like Thia-Cal from Finish Line, I have also used B-1 injectable with great results, IM every 3 - 4 days.
I understand wanting a safe mount for any child but have you tried your horse without giving him anything? If he is still too much, is finding another horse/pony an option?
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | Ive had really awesome results with the Forerunner paste made by ForeFront equine! We've also had amazing results from Animal Element 'In the Zone' paste. Works wonders!! time it to about 2 hours out and it works like a charm! |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | margoannrodeo - 2017-08-07 11:28 AM
Good morning BHW
I have already had the conversation with my vet who had some great ideas but wanted to reach out some more.
Said horse is a 19 year old (pretty semi-retired) with some soundness issues that I have managed for 7 years (no pain issues). He has always been an "ON" type personality but not hot and marginally better in his old age. He is ridden maybe 3 to 4 times a month (usually a mile or two trail ride by the kiddo/10) at a walk. Once every few months we go to an obstacle/sensory course that the kiddo loves. Hes been hauled all over the country, has done extreme cowdoy races with me and is generally not bothered by much.
Last few times, he has been a bit on the muscle with the kiddo (who then gets frustrated but I walk him through to keep it all calm). Edit: the last few times he was also sedated. Yesterday we had to swap horses this weekend becasuse oldie was a nut. I rode him and the horse was a nervous mess (washed out, refusing and scared of going over a ground pole). I can feel why the kid gets frustrated and dont want to kill his desire to ride (which is already minimal). He did have a blast on my baby after the swap.
Ive tried the follwing sedation (and combos thereof):
Resperine (not concurrent with the below)
Ace
Xylazine
Ace+Zylazine (3cc ea)
Dermosadan Gel (1.5cc)
Every combo seems to give him the exact opposite reaction and makes him more nervous and untypically flighty. I give the correct time out (20-30 min before we even get to this place) and never give more after. No matter the sedation he seems to have the opposite reation.
I am back to square one and open to suggestions. I would really like to find something that not a sedative (clearly these dont work).
which way were you giving those meds? and you were giving 1.5 c of the oral dorm gel and not injectable dorm? |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | I take it for my migraines and dont think i can afford it for my horse lol!
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | casualdust07 - 2017-08-08 7:29 AM margoannrodeo - 2017-08-07 11:28 AM Good morning BHW
I have already had the conversation with my vet who had some great ideas but wanted to reach out some more.
Said horse is a 19 year old (pretty semi-retired) with some soundness issues that I have managed for 7 years (no pain issues). He has always been an "ON" type personality but not hot and marginally better in his old age. He is ridden maybe 3 to 4 times a month (usually a mile or two trail ride by the kiddo/10) at a walk. Once every few months we go to an obstacle/sensory course that the kiddo loves. Hes been hauled all over the country, has done extreme cowdoy races with me and is generally not bothered by much.
Last few times, he has been a bit on the muscle with the kiddo (who then gets frustrated but I walk him through to keep it all calm). Edit: the last few times he was also sedated. Yesterday we had to swap horses this weekend becasuse oldie was a nut. I rode him and the horse was a nervous mess (washed out, refusing and scared of going over a ground pole). I can feel why the kid gets frustrated and dont want to kill his desire to ride (which is already minimal). He did have a blast on my baby after the swap.
Ive tried the follwing sedation (and combos thereof):
Resperine (not concurrent with the below)
Ace
Xylazine
Ace+Zylazine (3cc ea)
Dermosadan Gel (1.5cc)
Every combo seems to give him the exact opposite reaction and makes him more nervous and untypically flighty. I give the correct time out (20-30 min before we even get to this place) and never give more after. No matter the sedation he seems to have the opposite reation.
I am back to square one and open to suggestions. I would really like to find something that not a sedative (clearly these dont work).
which way were you giving those meds? and you were giving 1.5 c of the oral dorm gel and not injectable dorm?
Yes
Dermosadan Gel
Not injectable
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | I have had the old one for 7 years (another horse is not an option)
He has ridden him all over southern california (mountains, rivers, etc) with zero issue
Hes totally safe just quite the challange and not too much for the kid 9/10 just at these events
Thiacal doesnt work on him, tried him on that before.
When I dont give him anything hes about the same...meds seem to make it worse.
Next time we go to said event he'll ride my colt and I will school on the old one to see if it helps
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 589
| THE Calming Cookies |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | panamasgold - 2017-08-08 1:14 PM THE Calming Cookies
Dont work on him lol!!!
But thanks for the suggestion!
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | margoannrodeo - 2017-08-08 11:50 AM
casualdust07 - 2017-08-08 7:29 AM margoannrodeo - 2017-08-07 11:28 AM Good morning BHW
I have already had the conversation with my vet who had some great ideas but wanted to reach out some more.
Said horse is a 19 year old (pretty semi-retired) with some soundness issues that I have managed for 7 years (no pain issues). He has always been an "ON" type personality but not hot and marginally better in his old age. He is ridden maybe 3 to 4 times a month (usually a mile or two trail ride by the kiddo/10) at a walk. Once every few months we go to an obstacle/sensory course that the kiddo loves. Hes been hauled all over the country, has done extreme cowdoy races with me and is generally not bothered by much.
Last few times, he has been a bit on the muscle with the kiddo (who then gets frustrated but I walk him through to keep it all calm). Edit: the last few times he was also sedated. Yesterday we had to swap horses this weekend becasuse oldie was a nut. I rode him and the horse was a nervous mess (washed out, refusing and scared of going over a ground pole). I can feel why the kid gets frustrated and dont want to kill his desire to ride (which is already minimal). He did have a blast on my baby after the swap.
Ive tried the follwing sedation (and combos thereof):
Resperine (not concurrent with the below)
Ace
Xylazine
Ace+Zylazine (3cc ea)
Dermosadan Gel (1.5cc)
Every combo seems to give him the exact opposite reaction and makes him more nervous and untypically flighty. I give the correct time out (20-30 min before we even get to this place) and never give more after. No matter the sedation he seems to have the opposite reation.
I am back to square one and open to suggestions. I would really like to find something that not a sedative (clearly these dont work).
which way were you giving those meds? and you were giving 1.5 c of the oral dorm gel and not injectable dorm?
Dermosadan Gel
Not injectable
how were you giving the combo of ace and xylazine? |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | some horses, just like humans can be super sensitive to sedation-meaning the wrong amount may be causing them to be in a certain "plane" of anesthesia-maybe he's too deep into the plane with the dose of meds you've been giving, being stuck in a plane can cause some eradic behavior?? I would strongly recommend a magnesium feed through-we used animed vitacalm (it looks like it might have a new name now) OR omega alpha Chill. The omega alpha chill you give before the event and the animed is fed daily, both had good results. With that said it sounds like the horse has maybe gotten a little worse lately?? Make sure you haven't changed anything-bit, saddle. Those older horses can be really sensitive about saddle fit-particularly a kids saddle-just consider the possiblity of something not feeling right other than the horse just being ornery :0) |
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | LMS - 2017-08-08 1:56 PM some horses, just like humans can be super sensitive to sedation-meaning the wrong amount may be causing them to be in a certain "plane" of anesthesia-maybe he's too deep into the plane with the dose of meds you've been giving, being stuck in a plane can cause some eradic behavior?? I would strongly recommend a magnesium feed through-we used animed vitacalm (it looks like it might have a new name now) OR omega alpha Chill. The omega alpha chill you give before the event and the animed is fed daily, both had good results. With that said it sounds like the horse has maybe gotten a little worse lately?? Make sure you haven't changed anything-bit, saddle. Those older horses can be really sensitive about saddle fit-particularly a kids saddle-just consider the possiblity of something not feeling right other than the horse just being ornery :0)
Absolutley appreciate your out of the box approach, thats usually my first stop. Hes had the same set up with a treeless for the past 4 years. Ive tried various doses (of various meds) and I tend to see the same consistent reaction. I will look into the Chill!
I havent ruled out some of his soundness issues possibly bothering him (but honestly refusing and "ducking" at a walk when asked to walk over a ground pole lol...he shouldnt be that sore when he is literally walking hahaha) 
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Oh excuse me!
Posts: 2473
Location: S. California Beach | casualdust07 - 2017-08-08 1:55 PM margoannrodeo - 2017-08-08 11:50 AM casualdust07 - 2017-08-08 7:29 AM margoannrodeo - 2017-08-07 11:28 AM Good morning BHW
I have already had the conversation with my vet who had some great ideas but wanted to reach out some more.
Said horse is a 19 year old (pretty semi-retired) with some soundness issues that I have managed for 7 years (no pain issues). He has always been an "ON" type personality but not hot and marginally better in his old age. He is ridden maybe 3 to 4 times a month (usually a mile or two trail ride by the kiddo/10) at a walk. Once every few months we go to an obstacle/sensory course that the kiddo loves. Hes been hauled all over the country, has done extreme cowdoy races with me and is generally not bothered by much.
Last few times, he has been a bit on the muscle with the kiddo (who then gets frustrated but I walk him through to keep it all calm). Edit: the last few times he was also sedated. Yesterday we had to swap horses this weekend becasuse oldie was a nut. I rode him and the horse was a nervous mess (washed out, refusing and scared of going over a ground pole). I can feel why the kid gets frustrated and dont want to kill his desire to ride (which is already minimal). He did have a blast on my baby after the swap.
Ive tried the follwing sedation (and combos thereof):
Resperine (not concurrent with the below)
Ace
Xylazine
Ace+Zylazine (3cc ea)
Dermosadan Gel (1.5cc)
Every combo seems to give him the exact opposite reaction and makes him more nervous and untypically flighty. I give the correct time out (20-30 min before we even get to this place) and never give more after. No matter the sedation he seems to have the opposite reation.
I am back to square one and open to suggestions. I would really like to find something that not a sedative (clearly these dont work).
which way were you giving those meds? and you were giving 1.5 c of the oral dorm gel and not injectable dorm?
Dermosadan Gel
Not injectable
how were you giving the combo of ace and xylazine?
Ace (IM and Oral)
Xylazine (IV and IM)
Ace + Xylazine (IV and IM)
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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | I have a mare who is very anxious and nervous. Couldn't even get her to walk flat-footed. Prancy, jumpy. A young adult is riding her so it wasn't a big problem; more of a pain. She recently was showing signs of ulcers. Along with the ulcer medication, the vet suggested I give her a calming supplement to stop what's causing the ulcers, not just treat it. We picked what LMS suggested--Animed's ViaCalm. It used to be called VitaCalm. It has tryptophan, thiamine, calcium and magnesium in it. I cannot believe the difference in her. It's nothing that anyone else would notice. She doesn't act drugged up. But she is much calmer. We also lunge her a lot in the round pen. If she's sitting around at all, even for just a few days, she gets a little session in the round pen first to take the edge off before we go out to ride. She's doing great. Walks calmly, head down, very relaxed. She's even loading in the trailer now and she used to give us trouble. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | I was told to try Valerian root. A few capsules in his feed an hour or so before event. Have not tried it yet but is cheap and easy. |
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Member
Posts: 10
| Try the ForeCalm by ForeFront Equine! www.forefrontequine.com/sbarnhart |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| You run a bute test yet? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: Oklahoma | I am another one that has used Animed's Viacalm. I have a hot, prancy, ornery mare. I tried a couple of other things this past summer - raspberry leaves, Pozzi Relax pellets and they did nothing for her. I decided to try the Viacalm - it's cheap, so nothing to lose. I used it about 3 months and she was really good. Then made the mistake and took her off it and she is back to the prancy, ornery mare stuff. So that has to be the answer for her. I went back and bought another jug of it last week. And it is so cheap it's amazing that it works so well! |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| I LOVE herbs...I also agree with using Valerian root. That worked for a horse I had that needed the edge taken off, but still able to completely perform under it. I've also used THE calming cookies, and I LOVE them! But they knocked her out a little more than the Valerian root, and I was just trying to take a little edge off. |
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Location: midwest mama | Have you had his vision checked? |
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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | I use Aculife patches on the pole and points on the face!! I can mail patches if anyone wants to try them on a nervous horse!!  |
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"Calming" for a horse with adverse/opposite reactions to sedatives?