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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
 
| One of my horses recently became very ouchy on her feet. Vet checked her and the only thing found is the sides of her soles are slightly reactive to hood testers.
Farrier says it's because I turn her out at night when dew keeps our grass soaking wet, them stall her during the day. All the hood expanding/contracting was causing her to lose shoes left and right. At the recommendation of the farrier, we pulled her shoes to let nail holes grow out. Shortly after is when she became ouchy but it hasn't gotten better.
Currently, at the okay of vet & farrier, I'm taping her front feet up with turpentine and maxi pads. Just switched to day turnout and night stalling.
I just now pulled up my pre-purchase on her from 5 months ago. I had 12 X-rays of her feet. I remember the vet (not mine) telling me on the phone that she has a lot of sole, and he might recommend taking them down some. The vet check notes have literally EVERYTHING within normal limits. But this sentence I don't understand:
Both front coffins have prominent coring, no significant findings.
(It also says she was negative to hoof testers)
Can you please tell me what prominent coring means for a horse? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | I have no idea about the coring. There is so much wrong here though. Why on Gods green earth would a vet recommend removing sole from a hoof? People spend years trying to get a good thick sole! Secondly, she probably got sore because your farrier pulled shoes and left the foot totally unprotected. You can't take a horse from walking on a shoe and getting almost zero stimulation to the sole, frog, and bars of the foot then just pull their shoes and throw them to the wolves with a "shod" trim. Ugh. I imagine she is very very tender. If your farrier has been carving out her sole at the recommendation of that vet she is probably bruised, lame, and ready to abscess!  Does she have thrush currently? That whole "the dew is ruining her feet" line is a crock too. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
 
Location: NE Texas | Sockittoemred - 2017-08-16 12:39 PM I have no idea about the coring. There is so much wrong here though. Why on Gods green earth would a vet recommend removing sole from a hoof? People spend years trying to get a good thick sole! Secondly, she probably got sore because your farrier pulled shoes and left the foot totally unprotected. You can't take a horse from walking on a shoe and getting almost zero stimulation to the sole, frog, and bars of the foot then just pull their shoes and throw them to the wolves with a "shod" trim. Ugh. I imagine she is very very tender. If your farrier has been carving out her sole at the recommendation of that vet she is probably bruised, lame, and ready to abscess! Does she have thrush currently? That whole "the dew is ruining her feet" line is a crock too.
So much this!!!!! I would paint her feet with Rickens formula to harden them. Trim (rasp) every couple of weeks pulling heel and toe back so foot stays under her where it should be. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | Herbie - 2017-08-16 12:47 PM
Sockittoemred - 2017-08-16 12:39 PM I have no idea about the coring. There is so much wrong here though. Why on Gods green earth would a vet recommend removing sole from a hoof? People spend years trying to get a good thick sole! Secondly, she probably got sore because your farrier pulled shoes and left the foot totally unprotected. You can't take a horse from walking on a shoe and getting almost zero stimulation to the sole, frog, and bars of the foot then just pull their shoes and throw them to the wolves with a "shod" trim. Ugh. I imagine she is very very tender. If your farrier has been carving out her sole at the recommendation of that vet she is probably bruised, lame, and ready to abscess! Does she have thrush currently? That whole "the dew is ruining her feet" line is a crock too.
Stuff like this seriously boggles my mind. Such ignorance. How do they make it through vet school? How do they become certified to be a farrier? Just how?
OP: I am so sorry you are having to deal with this! No hoof no horse and decent farriers are HARD to find. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| Sockittoemred - 2017-08-16 1:39 PM
I have no idea about the coring. There is so much wrong here though. Why on Gods green earth would a vet recommend removing sole from a hoof? People spend years trying to get a good thick sole! Secondly, she probably got sore because your farrier pulled shoes and left the foot totally unprotected. You can't take a horse from walking on a shoe and getting almost zero stimulation to the sole, frog, and bars of the foot then just pull their shoes and throw them to the wolves with a "shod" trim. Ugh. I imagine she is very very tender. If your farrier has been carving out her sole at the recommendation of that vet she is probably bruised, lame, and ready to abscess! Does she have thrush currently? That whole "the dew is ruining her feet" line is a crock too.
It was a performance vet who said that about her soles, not my vet. And I never told my farrier, so he has never taken her sole back.
She does not have thrush (yay - something good!)
I asked my vet on Friday (when she checked her) of it was time to find a new farrier and she said "not yet".
My other horse was having the same issue pulling shoes and my farrier kept telling me it was the dew thing. Well, since that horse got hurt and has been on stall rest for over a month, he has not had one chip. Farrier says "see? Because his feet aren't wet half the time then dry"
So, opinions - new farrier????
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | He isn't throwing shoes because he is in a stall and can't move around. Has nothing to do with dry. My horses live outside 24/7 with no shelter. Play in the pond daily. I live in Alabama, we have tons of humidity and heavy dew daily. Guess what? No pathologies in their feet. No chips, thrush, etc etc. Can you post pics of your horses feet? I am going to look up the coring thing. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| Sockittoemred - 2017-08-16 2:01 PM
He isn't throwing shoes because he is in a stall and can't move around. Has nothing to do with dry. My horses live outside 24/7 with no shelter. Play in the pond daily. I live in Alabama, we have tons of humidity and heavy dew daily. Guess what? No pathologies in their feet. No chips, thrush, etc etc. Can you post pics of your horses feet? I am going to look up the coring thing.
Can I resize my pics on an iPhone? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | If you can, I am not sure how. You can email them to me if you'd like and I will post for you.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
| The whole "coring" term has thrown me for a loop. 
I would interpret that as degeneration and that would have been a concern to me at the time of the vet check. But definitely not clear on his terminology?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | Posting pics for OP
I vote it is past time for a new farrier.
Attachments
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 bareheel (85KB - 256 downloads)
barerears (92KB - 228 downloads)
baresole (84KB - 229 downloads)
fcloseup (86KB - 254 downloads)
rcloseup (92KB - 248 downloads)
rfront2 (93KB - 252 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| THANK YOU for posting my pics!
We have many farriers in this area. A fellow barrel racer has recommended two, and a grand prix trainer recommended hers. Would I seem too crazy and high maintenance to ask for consultations??? If so, how do you go about choosing? I have used my current one since 2003, and just stuck with him. Unfortunately.
I just sent the prepurchase results to my own vet. She said she believes he is referring to the vascular channels in the coffin bone, and now she's reviewing the films.
I should add.....the vet never mentioned the "coring" to me. I just saw that on the paper today when I thought to look at them, since her feet seemed great when she arrived....I was so happy to have a horse with "vet approved" great feet, since my last horse had no sole... :(
PPS. You guys are SO helpful. I truly appreciate it! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| My vet just said there's nothing abnormal in the xrays. Everything looks great. They were taken 5 months ago and now I can't ride her. Sigh. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 912
Location: Alabama | The file will open in Paint. Not sure why my pics always upload that way. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
| dRowe - 2017-08-16 2:29 PM
THANK YOU for posting my pics!
We have many farriers in this area. A fellow barrel racer has recommended two, and a grand prix trainer recommended hers. Would I seem too crazy and high maintenance to ask for consultations??? If so, how do you go about choosing? I have used my current one since 2003, and just stuck with him. Unfortunately.
I just sent the prepurchase results to my own vet. She said she believes he is referring to the vascular channels in the coffin bone, and now she's reviewing the films.
I should add.....the vet never mentioned the "coring" to me. I just saw that on the paper today when I thought to look at them, since her feet seemed great when she arrived....I was so happy to have a horse with "vet approved" great feet, since my last horse had no sole... :(
PPS. You guys are SO helpful. I truly appreciate it!
Ask your vet who THEY recommend because it's very likely they will review the x-rays together then put together a game plan for your horse. That's what I recently had to do after firing a farrier and I finally feel like we're making progress. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| RedHead84 - 2017-08-16 3:59 PM
dRowe - 2017-08-16 2:29 PM
THANK YOU for posting my pics!
We have many farriers in this area. A fellow barrel racer has recommended two, and a grand prix trainer recommended hers. Would I seem too crazy and high maintenance to ask for consultations??? If so, how do you go about choosing? I have used my current one since 2003, and just stuck with him. Unfortunately.
I just sent the prepurchase results to my own vet. She said she believes he is referring to the vascular channels in the coffin bone, and now she's reviewing the films.
I should add.....the vet never mentioned the "coring" to me. I just saw that on the paper today when I thought to look at them, since her feet seemed great when she arrived....I was so happy to have a horse with "vet approved" great feet, since my last horse had no sole... :(
PPS. You guys are SO helpful. I truly appreciate it!
Ask your vet who THEY recommend because it's very likely they will review the x-rays together then put together a game plan for your horse. That's what I recently had to do after firing a farrier and I finally feel like we're making progress.
I told my vet the 3 names I have and asked if she could recommend anybody else, and she said that those three were good, but if they didn't work out and I wasnted more numbers to let her know. She said they can't "recommend" any specific people. I respect that - they all have to work together. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
| dRowe - 2017-08-16 3:02 PM
RedHead84 - 2017-08-16 3:59 PM
dRowe - 2017-08-16 2:29 PM
THANK YOU for posting my pics!
We have many farriers in this area. A fellow barrel racer has recommended two, and a grand prix trainer recommended hers. Would I seem too crazy and high maintenance to ask for consultations??? If so, how do you go about choosing? I have used my current one since 2003, and just stuck with him. Unfortunately.
I just sent the prepurchase results to my own vet. She said she believes he is referring to the vascular channels in the coffin bone, and now she's reviewing the films.
I should add.....the vet never mentioned the "coring" to me. I just saw that on the paper today when I thought to look at them, since her feet seemed great when she arrived....I was so happy to have a horse with "vet approved" great feet, since my last horse had no sole... :(
PPS. You guys are SO helpful. I truly appreciate it!
Ask your vet who THEY recommend because it's very likely they will review the x-rays together then put together a game plan for your horse. That's what I recently had to do after firing a farrier and I finally feel like we're making progress.
I told my vet the 3 names I have and asked if she could recommend anybody else, and she said that those three were good, but if they didn't work out and I wasnted more numbers to let her know. She said they can't "recommend" any specific people. I respect that - they all have to work together.
I understand that. I would just make sure the farrier is willing to work with the vet and vice versa. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Sockittoemred - 2017-08-16 1:01 PM He isn't throwing shoes because he is in a stall and can't move around. Has nothing to do with dry. My horses live outside 24/7 with no shelter. Play in the pond daily. I live in Alabama, we have tons of humidity and heavy dew daily. Guess what? No pathologies in their feet. No chips, thrush, etc etc. Can you post pics of your horses feet? I am going to look up the coring thing.
I have one that can't handle her feet getting wet. She has horrible feet and it's a struggle. She had to stay out for 4 weeks because I got hurt and now I'm dealing with the effects of that and it SUCKS. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I looked at the pictures and a few things stand out.
There is something going on with the heels the one picture shows the he hairline dropping at the heel, my vet always told me if it is concave there are big problems in the inside of the foot. In this picture the foot also appears to have a contracted heel.
The one picture that shows the sole, the right heel in the picture is curling over, this can cause extreme pain in a horse.
In the same picture it shows the bars of the foot overgrown, I had a very well respected farrier out who said if the bars are not trimmed properly the bar can spread (once cut away appears to look like a separated white line). She says the barefoot trimmers generally avoid trimming the bars. I have one with the opposite problem where she has impacted bars, when I asked my vet about this, he gave the same info as the farrier.
As someone else said, if your horse is pulling shoes as much as he is, you have a farrier problem. Horses feet expand and contract with each step they take. The horse is unbalanced. In one of the photos it looks like one heel is higher then the other, this can also cause the horse to become body sore.
Yes I have heard too much sole can cause problems, too much sole can prevent the coffin bone from dropping down in the foot when weight is on the foot. With each step what happens the foot expands, the coffin bone drops pulling blood into the foot, when the foot is in the air, the coffin bone moves back to its neutral position, pushes the blood out, and the hoof contracts. There are many good you tube videos that show how the foot moves. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I just talked with my vet about the term coffin bone coring and he said it is an old term but what he thinks the vet was seeing was decalcification in the coffin bone most likely from pedal osteitis possibly from a bone bruise. (He says the bone would look like swirls on the X-rays)
He said the horse may now be showing symptoms of bony changes in the coffin bone now that the remodelling of the coffin bone is done.
He suggests getting new X-rays and comparing to the originals. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| cheryl makofka - 2017-08-16 9:37 PM
I just talked with my vet about the term coffin bone coring and he said it is an old term but what he thinks the vet was seeing was decalcification in the coffin bone most likely from pedal osteitis possibly from a bone bruise. (He says the bone would look like swirls on the X-rays)
He said the horse may now be showing symptoms of bony changes in the coffin bone now that the remodelling of the coffin bone is done.
He suggests getting new X-rays and comparing to the originals.
I have 5 X-rays of each foot that were taken on March 7 and my vet said they looked good, so I don't think there are coffin bone issues. Last Friday, my vet checked her with hood testers and she only reacted at the side (I think bars?)
As someone just said above, one of her heels looks crushed to me (and I know nothing, so it has to be very obvious for me to pick it out on my own). I had sent those pics to my farrier and here was that convo:
Farrier: What are you wanting to do with her?
Me: Get her feet nice so I can ride her. She isn't sound on hard ground. Is that an answer to your question??? I'm not sure if that's what you're asking.
Farrier: Sooooo.,... You're wanting a hoof transplant??!
I'm going to reach out to a different farrier today. Is it appropriate to ask for a consultation, or do you just hire one with excellent recommendations? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| Also, she was completely sound until we pulled her shoes. Her shoes were only pulled because farrier recommended it to grow out nail holes. :( |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | dRowe - 2017-08-17 7:43 AM Also, she was completely sound until we pulled her shoes. Her shoes were only pulled because farrier recommended it to grow out nail holes. :(
This is normal for a horse to get tender after pulling shoes. It's like you wearing shoes on rocks, and then taking your shoes off. It's painful! The foot has to build up a thick calloused sole to protect itself once the shoes are pulled. With shoes on, this cannot happen. Get you some Rickens and paint her soles every day until she seems more comfortable. You can use soft rides or cloud boots as well, as the contact with the pad to sole/frog will encourage and expedite the process and provide some cushion in the meantime. If there is thrush present, get the Tomorrow medication and treat it daily for a week, then once a week therafter. You can do this when you paint the sole. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| dRowe - 2017-08-17 7:43 AM
cheryl makofka - 2017-08-16 9:37 PM
I just talked with my vet about the term coffin bone coring and he said it is an old term but what he thinks the vet was seeing was decalcification in the coffin bone most likely from pedal osteitis possibly from a bone bruise. (He says the bone would look like swirls on the X-rays)
He said the horse may now be showing symptoms of bony changes in the coffin bone now that the remodelling of the coffin bone is done.
He suggests getting new X-rays and comparing to the originals.
I have 5 X-rays of each foot that were taken on March 7 and my vet said they looked good, so I don't think there are coffin bone issues. Last Friday, my vet checked her with hood testers and she only reacted at the side (I think bars? )
As someone just said above, one of her heels looks crushed to me (and I know nothing, so it has to be very obvious for me to pick it out on my own ). I had sent those pics to my farrier and here was that convo:
Farrier: What are you wanting to do with her?
Me: Get her feet nice so I can ride her. She isn't sound on hard ground. Is that an answer to your question??? I'm not sure if that's what you're asking.
Farrier: Sooooo.,... You're wanting a hoof transplant??!
I'm going to reach out to a different farrier today. Is it appropriate to ask for a consultation, or do you just hire one with excellent recommendations?
I'm just telling you what my vet said about coffin bone coring. There can be significant changes in the coffin bone from March to now.
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Veteran
Posts: 155
| I just recently had to find a new shoer because mine retired. So far I'm on my 2nd one. The first one was a really good shoer, new to the area, but didn't have the clientele so took a job driving cattle truck, and now isn't returning calls! On to shoer #2. I went and watched him do 3 of my friends horses and really liked him. So far so good, he's shoed 1 and trimmed 1. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| It looks to me on the picture of her sole that you have a "bar smear" or laid over bars. Heels look long as well and the wall tells me she's very due for a trim.
Both of these things have made my barefoot horses tender. As we've gone barefoot we've also had to learn how to maintain a few things, like bares. One of our geldings got very tender between trims, turns out he had shed a lot of sole and this increased the pressure on his bars and they'd laid over. Trimmer showed me how to clean that up so if it happens again we can take care of it. Same thing can happen with shedding frog.
As far as touching the sole goes - it's important IMO to scrap off the shedding sole. You can tell by scraping at it with a hoof knife what is dead and what isn't, the dead stuff is very crumbly and comes out easily, you do not pare the sole like you would to shoe. You have to scrape out the dead sole to be able to see where the wall, bars, and heels need to come back to.
One of my old farriers never wanted to touch my little horses soles when he just trimmed him. Thus the poor thing had terribly long heels and contracted heels by the time I switched (bro in law, it's hard to fire family). There's a difference between what most carriers would call a "pasture trim" and a natural, balanced barefoot trimmer.
My trimmer always reminds me that on rocky or uneven surfaces there is a fine line between sore and cautious. The bare hoof feels everything - if you step on a lego block at 2am you don't keep putting weight down on that foot do you? No, you jerk the foot away (and cuss). Same thing for a horse, especially newly barefoot, stepping on a stone, they jerk the foot away. We take it as being sore, really they're just protecting themselves. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| Well - I made a call to a new farrier. He generally shoes the dressage and show jumpers around here, but I'm going to give him a shot. He was recommended by my neighbors, and they literally spare no expense when it comes to their HIGH dollar horses. I'm hoping that he can help.
I never wanted my horse to go without shoes. I regret that I didn't do my own research and just trusted the farrier. The fact that I've expressed my concern to him and he's just shrugged it off tells me that it's time to move on.
I've painted her soles with turpentine for 2 days in a row - not sure if it's that, or she's just getting used to bare feet....but she is walking better now.
What a headache. ?? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| dRowe - 2017-08-18 7:54 AM
Well - I made a call to a new farrier. He generally shoes the dressage and show jumpers around here, but I'm going to give him a shot. He was recommended by my neighbors, and they literally spare no expense when it comes to their HIGH dollar horses. I'm hoping that he can help.
I never wanted my horse to go without shoes. I regret that I didn't do my own research and just trusted the farrier. The fact that I've expressed my concern to him and he's just shrugged it off tells me that it's time to move on.
I've painted her soles with turpentine for 2 days in a row - not sure if it's that, or she's just getting used to bare feet....but she is walking better now.
What a headache. ??
If at all possible trim every 4 weeks, don't wait for 6 weeks. Even with shoes have them reset every 4 weeks. This will help the foot keep its angles, and prevent any more damage to the heels |
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