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| I"m looking into buying a yearling creamellow stud colt. He is bred pretty nice. Im not sure if i should keep a stud or cut him. He is also gonna run barrels. I don't have any mare's at our place only geldings. There is no other speed studs around like this either that throw color.im not sure?  |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | chop em off
Edited by 1DSoon 2017-08-26 11:08 AM
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| rockymountainranch71 - 2017-08-26 9:02 AM
I"m looking into buying a yearling creamellow stud colt. He is bred pretty nice. Im not sure if i should keep a stud or cut him. He is also gonna run barrels. I don't have any mare's at our place only geldings. There is no other speed studs around like this either that throw color.im not sure?
What's the cremello colt's pedigree? If it isn't jam packed with top names and you aren't ready to put him in the hands of a top trainer/jockey to prove him then it'll be easier on you and him to geld him. So much goes into proving and standing a stallion, so if you do plan to keep him intact do tons and tons of research and make sure you've got the wallet to get him proven and get his name out there.
Pics if you do get him by the way, there's a special place in my heart for those double dilutes <3 |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
 
| If you are breeding for color leave him a stallion. You might get a few locals that want color. Personally, I don't know anyone that does breed for color in the barrelracing industry. They want something that can go win futurities and win at the 1D level and could not care less what color they are.
A friend pointed out just the other day that there need to be more quality young stallions coming up that are not yellow because there are so many well bred mates that are palominos. I have a palomino mare and so many of the horses that I would consider breeding to are yellow.
I you are breeding for successful barrel horses, forget color. |
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Member
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| 1DSoon - 2017-08-26 11:07 AM
chop em off
Generally, I agree -- a lot of horses that are kept stallions aren't worthy of passing on their genetics. However, AI/shipped semen/etc has enabled us to drastically narrow the gene pool because a few specific bloodlines dominate. It used to be that local breeders didn't have access to big-name sires halfway across the country, so they bred to local (perhaps less proven) studs that were often outcrosses. Crossing the same bloodlines generation after generation as we do today decreases genetic diversity, locks in undesirable traits, and increases the likelihood of genetic disorders. Just because a colt's bloodlines aren't fashionable today doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to be kept a stud (although I understand why as an individual breeder, you would want to stand one that does have popular bloodlines -- realistically, they're just more marketable and bring higher fees). For the breed as a whole in the long-run though, we need more small-time breeders standing high-quality (although possibly not name-brand) studs to a handful of mares a year to keep genetic diversity alive.
As a side note, breeding for color doesn't make total sense to me (even though monetarily it is a good choice for breeders). Sure, color is a nice bonus if you already have a good horse underneath, but there are only so many traits you can selectively breed for. If color is top priority, what else are you giving up to get that?
To the OP: It is really up to you. If he has solid bloodlines -- even if they're not fashionable -- and he is an outstanding individual physically and mentally, he might deserve to stay a stud. But even if he is nice enough to keep a stud, do you really want to invest the time, energy, facilities, and resources it will take to make this colt well-behaved, proven, and successful? Even if you only want to keep him to breed to a couple personal mares, it will be a lot more work to have a stallion than a gelding.
Edited by 123barrelracer 2017-08-26 3:42 PM
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 Saint Stacey
| Pretend he's a sorrel. If he would be ugly as a sorrel due to conformation...he should be cut no matter what his color is. My observation had been that very few cremellos or perlinos should be left stallions, yet many are. I don't care how great the bloodlines and color are. If the conformation is not correct, he should be gelded. You MUST have a full package if they are going to reproduce. |
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  Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Owning a stallion can be so difficult. Much easier to own a gelding. Having said that one of the very best horses I ever had was my stud horse. I didn't get him until he was ten and had many a mile put on him on the ranch. He was a better friend to me than most people...he was near human. He was a gentleman at all times. When you get a good one they are the best. |
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Regular
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| Thank you for everbodies advice. Im better off gelding him if all there after is the big names and using AI since i finically can't afford paying into the future programs. I wouldn't be hauling into the big time show or rodeos. He was from the baker ranch. This information makes me feel better about gelding him. |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | A lot of people buy and breed for color. It's weird to me people saying they don't. |
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 I'm Really Boring
Posts: 4505
| *almost there* - 2017-08-27 12:26 PM
A lot of people buy and breed for color. It's weird to me people saying they don't.
Just because they do, doesn't mean they should... |
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Saint Stacey
| *almost there* - 2017-08-27 11:26 AM
A lot of people buy and breed for color. It's weird to me people saying they don't.
The ones buying and breeding based on color have no idea what they are doing and those people typically turn out very badly conformed horses that couldn't out run a fat pig.
Same with those that breed only on pedigree.
If you are breeding, you need to take a long, hard look at what you are doing and what kind of stock you have. If your mare has something wrong, you'd better make sure it's something you are ok with if its passed down through generations. You simply cannot pick and choose pieces and parts from each parent to achieve what you want the foal to be. It just doesn't work that way. |
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Expert
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Location: California | SKM - 2017-08-27 12:28 PM *almost there* - 2017-08-27 11:26 AM A lot of people buy and breed for color. It's weird to me people saying they don't. The ones buying and breeding based on color have no idea what they are doing and those people typically turn out very badly conformed horses that couldn't out run a fat pig. Same with those that breed only on pedigree. If you are breeding, you need to take a long, hard look at what you are doing and what kind of stock you have. If your mare has something wrong, you'd better make sure it's something you are ok with if its passed down through generations. You simply cannot pick and choose pieces and parts from each parent to achieve what you want the foal to be. It just doesn't work that way.
Never said I was breeding?? So not sure where your accusations are coming from? I personally couldn't care less about color, but the fact is I know a lot of people who breed for color. You can have two of the same exact horses, and the one with better color will always bring more money. Just ask anyone on here who trains horses to sell to the public. There's a reason most try to not buy sorrels as projects!
whether you like it or not, the general public, who buys these horses, want color. There's some "top" stallions that should have never been studs to begin with. . . . But what do I know, I'm obviously back yard breeding hideous conformation and pedigree palominos and buckskins. . . |
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Location: California | Coop - 2017-08-27 12:19 PM
*almost there* - 2017-08-27 12:26 PM
A lot of people buy and breed for color. It's weird to me people saying they don't.
Just because they do, doesn't mean they should...
Agreed |
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | rockymountainranch71 - 2017-08-26 12:02 PM I"m looking into buying a yearling creamellow stud colt. He is bred pretty nice. Im not sure if i should keep a stud or cut him. He is also gonna run barrels. I don't have any mare's at our place only geldings. There is no other speed studs around like this either that throw color.im not sure?
I say to probably geld him also but it has nothing to do with his quality but simply that you do not have mares in place to put under him. Standing a stud is a tough proposition and getting outside mares is a struggle. You about have to have your own mares to breed to at first and then if the resulting get go out and win----the mares come running to your boy. |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Bill Myers recommends at least $10,000 / year advertising budget to be successful.
Edited by Whiteboy 2017-08-28 12:02 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | Whiteboy - 2017-08-28 9:51 AM Bill Myers recommends a $10,000 / year advertising budget to be successful.
Very very interesting! Thanks for the share. |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Whiteboy - 2017-08-28 12:51 PM Bill Myers recommends at least $10,000 / year advertising budget to be successful.
I have heard that also. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Mighty Broke - 2017-08-28 12:08 PM
Whiteboy - 2017-08-28 12:51 PM Bill Myers recommends at least $10,000 / year advertising budget to be successful.
I have heard that also.
Its easy to buy a young prospect and have lots of big dreams but the reality of making it all come together is much more difficult and expensive than people plan. If someone wants a stud, I say have the disposable income to cover all of the cost. If you happen to sell a breed then that is just icing on the cake! lol |
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| Whiteboy - 2017-08-28 10:21 AM
Mighty Broke - 2017-08-28 12:08 PM
Whiteboy - 2017-08-28 12:51 PM Bill Myers recommends at least $10,000 / year advertising budget to be successful.
I have heard that also.
Its easy to buy a young prospect and have lots of big dreams but the reality of making it all come together is much more difficult and expensive than people plan. If someone wants a stud, I say have the disposable income to cover all of the cost. If you happen to sell a breed then that is just icing on the cake! lol
This. I had a nice stud but ended up gelding him because life just got in the way.
Also,if you have never had a stud or raised a stud to be a gentleman, it's best to geld or have some cash to put down for someone to assist you. Having a stallion in the incorrect hands can be like handing a loaded .50 cal to someone who has never even held a gun before.
Stallions can be absolutely wonderful as long as they are handled and taught correctly. Otherwise it can be an accident, a lawsuit, or both waiting to happen.
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| I bought a 3 year stud Colt last year that I haul to barrel races with no problems. I spend time with him everyday and sometimes forget he is a stallion. I think that one important thing to keep in mind when making the decision to keep one a stud is.. You have to be able to devote lots of time to them to make them nice. They get bored easy so I do other things like checking cows and pasture riding to keep him calm. If you are not in a position to devote the time to a stud, I would not recommend keeping one a stallion.  |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| If I had Stallion that I wanted to promote I would follow what Robin Herring has done with Firewaterontherocks. Another stallion that you might check on how the horse is promoted is Slick By Design. I wish I had half of what they have spent promoting those horses. That is really what it takes to get a stallion in the public eye. |
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Saint Stacey
| *almost there* - 2017-08-28 10:29 AM
SKM - 2017-08-27 12:28 PM *almost there* - 2017-08-27 11:26 AM A lot of people buy and breed for color. It's weird to me people saying they don't. The ones buying and breeding based on color have no idea what they are doing and those people typically turn out very badly conformed horses that couldn't out run a fat pig. Same with those that breed only on pedigree. If you are breeding, you need to take a long, hard look at what you are doing and what kind of stock you have. If your mare has something wrong, you'd better make sure it's something you are ok with if its passed down through generations. You simply cannot pick and choose pieces and parts from each parent to achieve what you want the foal to be. It just doesn't work that way.
whether you like it or not, the general public, who buys these horses, want color. There's some "top" stallions that should have never been studs to begin with. . . . But what do I know, I'm obviously back yard breeding hideous conformation and pedigree palominos and buckskins. . .
I wasn't accusing you of breeding or anything else. I was offering my perspective on people that breed based on color alone after you said you thought it was weird that people claim they don't. I was, by I means, attacking you.
You raise palomino's and buckskin's? Good for you. I don't care about color myself. Sure I'd take a pretty colored horse...but only if they have correct conformation. What is so wrong with having high expectations of breeders if they are selling a product to the public? |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | SKM - 2017-08-29 7:27 AM *almost there* - 2017-08-28 10:29 AM SKM - 2017-08-27 12:28 PM *almost there* - 2017-08-27 11:26 AM A lot of people buy and breed for color. It's weird to me people saying they don't. The ones buying and breeding based on color have no idea what they are doing and those people typically turn out very badly conformed horses that couldn't out run a fat pig. Same with those that breed only on pedigree. If you are breeding, you need to take a long, hard look at what you are doing and what kind of stock you have. If your mare has something wrong, you'd better make sure it's something you are ok with if its passed down through generations. You simply cannot pick and choose pieces and parts from each parent to achieve what you want the foal to be. It just doesn't work that way.
whether you like it or not, the general public, who buys these horses, want color. There's some "top" stallions that should have never been studs to begin with. . . . But what do I know, I'm obviously back yard breeding hideous conformation and pedigree palominos and buckskins. . . I wasn't accusing you of breeding or anything else. I was offering my perspective on people that breed based on color alone after you said you thought it was weird that people claim they don't. I was, by I means, attacking you. You raise palomino's and buckskin's? Good for you. I don't care about color myself. Sure I'd take a pretty colored horse...but only if they have correct conformation. What is so wrong with having high expectations of breeders if they are selling a product to the public?
I do not do a cross looking for color but I am never upset when it shows up. |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | SKM - 2017-08-29 4:27 AM *almost there* - 2017-08-28 10:29 AM SKM - 2017-08-27 12:28 PM *almost there* - 2017-08-27 11:26 AM A lot of people buy and breed for color. It's weird to me people saying they don't. The ones buying and breeding based on color have no idea what they are doing and those people typically turn out very badly conformed horses that couldn't out run a fat pig. Same with those that breed only on pedigree. If you are breeding, you need to take a long, hard look at what you are doing and what kind of stock you have. If your mare has something wrong, you'd better make sure it's something you are ok with if its passed down through generations. You simply cannot pick and choose pieces and parts from each parent to achieve what you want the foal to be. It just doesn't work that way.
whether you like it or not, the general public, who buys these horses, want color. There's some "top" stallions that should have never been studs to begin with. . . . But what do I know, I'm obviously back yard breeding hideous conformation and pedigree palominos and buckskins. . . I wasn't accusing you of breeding or anything else. I was offering my perspective on people that breed based on color alone after you said you thought it was weird that people claim they don't. I was, by I means, attacking you. You raise palomino's and buckskin's? Good for you. I don't care about color myself. Sure I'd take a pretty colored horse...but only if they have correct conformation. What is so wrong with having high expectations of breeders if they are selling a product to the public?
Lol no, I was being sarcastic about breeding, and breeding for color on top of it. I do not breed, I like to buy broke horses and give back to the people who put their lives work into raising and training one. |
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owning a stallion