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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
   
Location: North Dakota | I had kinda given up on saddle searching for a while after trying a few with no success (or at least, not better than what I was currently using) but I noticed a little white spot on my horse last night after I hosed him off.  I've never had a horse get a white spot before so I feel terrible!
Bad photos because the bugs were nuts last night and he could barely stand still, but you can see the itty bitty strip of white. He does not have one on the other side.
I have currently been using a 5 Star pad (1/2 inch) with the larger Classic Equine shim with the WIDE Circle Y Lisa Lockhart Flex2 saddle. He does get dry patches in the "dip" area behind the shoulder (although he really doesn't have that much of a dip) so I do know it probably is still just too wide for him. I almost wonder if the white spot is from my shim? It's such a straight white spot.
I tried a regular Circle Y Lisa Lockhart Flex2. I just felt a little uncomfortable about the leather in front. I felt like it created a slight tight spot. I thought it would be better to have a saddle that is slightly too wide than one that is possibly a little tight.
I tried a Billy Cook (this one) and that was a definate "no."
I also tried a Courts (this one) and it was better than the Billy Cook but I still felt it just wasn't quite right. It's like it had too much rock for him.
So I suppose I need to go searching again. My mom is going to bring my an older Circle Y I used to use on him when he was a colt. It's like his body shape changed wider when he was 4 and now has "grown taller" and is not as wide. So I'm curious how it will look on him. He is currently 6 years old.
Gah .... any other suggestions?
I feel like I'm searching for something perfect that doesn't exist which is why I kinda gave up on searching and just kept on using the wide Lisa Lockhart with the shim. But that just isn't going to work if I'm getting a white spot.
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | Looks like your shim is behind the edge of the skirt and the saddle is a pretty tight fit in the shoulder area to start with. If I was going to use the shim I would make sure it's at least 1/2" in front of the edge of the saddle so it's not putting so it doesn't concentrate the in one spot.
I would also try riding without try shim to see how it fits after it settles . |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Your first saddle may be fine if you got a thinner pad to use with the shims. The shim on to of that pad is making the front of the saddle way to narrow. Say a 1/2" pad instead.
The circle Y is no where near a good fit. It is way too wide, pops up in the back and sits down on the spine. The saddle should clear the spine and rest the bars over the spine.
The Billy Cook is also too wide as it pops up in the back. A shim may fix this problem but the back of the bar is too far spread for this horse. It may fit with a shim, but the back will always be squirly.
The Courts sits evenly from the side. It appears the bars are along the barrel of the back and appears to fit the best of the ones you have chosen so far. If you put your hand under the saddle you should be able to determine if it is too tight or if the bars are in the correct spot to gently hug the opposite side of the barrel when you push down in the stirrup. You should feel the bar all along the back of the horse. It should make constant contact with the side of the horse from front to back but it should not be overly tight in any area. If you feel it in constant contact along the side of the horse check below to see if it is too tight:
As a refresher, a good fitting saddle:
*Should sit evenly from the side (Horn and cantle almost straight across from each other depending on saddle.
*You should be able to put your weight into the stirrup without cinching and the saddle not slide or pinch, the bar should grab the opposite side of the barrel and gently hug in order to stay in place.
*The saddle should not pop up in the back, if it does, it is too wide in the front.
*If the saddle "Rocks" the saddle may be too narrow.
*If the saddle slides off the side when you put your weight into the stirrups without cinching, the saddle is too narrow.
*If you have a good fit you should not use a pad over 1/2" in width. The thicker the pad, the smaller the saddle fits. *If you are buying a quality wool pad thickness is not relevant to shock absorbtion.
Hope that helps  |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Liana D: That could be very true that I'm putting the shim too far back. I've never really used one extensively before.
The saddle is absolutely too wide for him. When used without the shim, it sits downhill on him. I can really feel it when I ride. These pictures are from earlier this year but I posted a thread back then and everyone told me it was too wide (which I agree). That is why I started using the shim.
IRunOnFaith: If you read my post, I am already using a 1/2 inch saddle pad.
I agree that out of the ones I have tried so far, the Courts is probably the best choice at this point. One of my reservations about that saddle is the back did come up a bit. This picture shows it better. The regular Lisa Lockhart came up the least amount in the back, but I just wonder if the overall design of that saddle is just too wide along the whole tree relative to his spine (I do agree with you there).
So just not even sure at this point what I should try next to see if there is something even better than the Courts.
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 It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | Saddles suck! If you can get your hands on an older Coats, you should try one.
I don't like how Lisa sits, does he have wither tenderness? It's so low on him up front. |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX |
I see... Hmmmm
THe hard thing about saddle fit is no tree is exactly the same measurement wise. So one's FQHB may be the exact measurements of anothers SQHB.
Where are you located? |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Another thing I just thought of: With the drop down rigging on the courts you're going to pull that saddle down even further and the back will most likely pop up even more...
Hmm...
Can you tell me what saddle the courts is so I can know what tree it is?
Saddle fitting is so frustrating... Hugs to you! 
ETA: I just found all your links in the original post. So sorry.
Have you tried a Martin 7" gullet? Their quarter horse bar flar is a bit different than everyone else and they may work for you.
Edited by IRunOnFaith 2017-08-29 3:30 PM
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | SmokinGirlie: I had Coats suggested to me but I'll admit I did not pursue trying to find one. I'm going to the state show this weekend ..... and I know they are giving away Larry Coats trophy saddles. I am hoping I can sweet talk someone to letting me set one of the trophy saddles on his back just to see how it fits.
No, he doesn't have any tenderness on his back, surprisingly. That was the first thing I did when I saw the marks is press all along his back, and no reaction anywhere. I do have them chiro'ed every month or two during the summer and he never has any major problems - just minor adjustments, and he usually needs more work on his poll if anything.
The saddle I am currently using NEVER actually touches his withers. There's not much clearance ... but it never touches him.
IRunOnFaith: I have the link for the saddles I tried in my original post. HorseSaddleShop was doing a free exchange promotion for the month of May, so it wasn't too bad to try a bunch of saddles (just paid a reduced fee for shipping). The Courts states it has an "improved LM style" tree. (Lynn McKenzie)
I have not tried a Martin on him.
I'm in central North Dakota. There is a place about 3 hours from me that sells Martin saddles. I was going to go to their barrel race in a few weekends but hubby is going hunting instead so I suppose it is my turn to stay home with the kiddo, since he's pretty much stayed home all summer with her.
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It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | Find Kim Johnson at State, she has an original Coats I'm pretty positive, and she is the one that got all the saddles donated so you could try both I'm sure.
Walk around and ask random people to try their saddles on, seriously! You will regret it if you don't. ND is so hard to find everything in one area.
Edited by SmokinGirlie 2017-08-29 4:33 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| Saddle fitting sucks!!! I hope you find your unicorn! |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | SmokinGirlie - 2017-08-29 4:32 PM Find Kim Johnson at State, she has an original Coats I'm pretty positive, and she is the one that got all the saddles donated so you could try both I'm sure.
Walk around and ask random people to try their saddles on, seriously! You will regret it if you don't. ND is so hard to find everything in one area.
I'm writing that name down and I'm willing to try to track her down this weekend!
I seriously did do that when I was saddle shopping for my other horse a couple years ago (asking people to try their saddle), but never found one that fit him that way. I had ordered the wide Lisa Lockhart through horsesaddleshop.com and it miraculously fit! I had tried at least 10 saddles on him before that point.
...Did I mention I hate saddle shopping? Argggg. I didn't think this horse would be hard to fit, but apparently he is.
Does anyone think a Triple Creek might fit him? I know they offer bare trees to try (because I tried them on my other horse
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  Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | r_beau - 2017-08-29 5:00 PM SmokinGirlie - 2017-08-29 4:32 PM Find Kim Johnson at State, she has an original Coats I'm pretty positive, and she is the one that got all the saddles donated so you could try both I'm sure.
Walk around and ask random people to try their saddles on, seriously! You will regret it if you don't. ND is so hard to find everything in one area. I'm writing that name down and I'm willing to try to track her down this weekend!
I seriously did do that when I was saddle shopping for my other horse a couple years ago (asking people to try their saddle), but never found one that fit him that way. I had ordered the wide Lisa Lockhart through horsesaddleshop.com and it miraculously fit! I had tried at least 10 saddles on him before that point.
...Did I mention I hate saddle shopping? Argggg. I didn't think this horse would be hard to fit, but apparently he is.
Does anyone think a Triple Creek might fit him? I know they offer bare trees to try (because I tried them on my other horse
You might also contact Truth Saddlery on Facebook. They have these foam molds that they can send you. Not sure about the price or details but might help. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I would try a billy cook 2031 as I find these fit most variety of horses. The one you tried looks like it may have a charmayne james tree (Billy cooks charmayne James tree) this is my least favourite.
The other saddles may be popping up because the angle of the bars is too narrow, it may not have anything to do with being too wide in the front.
Find a good saddle fitter to fit your horse. |
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 The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | I feel your pain. My new(er) mare came with white spots on one side. At first, my saddle was too wide for her, so I shimmed it. Now that she has filled in, she no longer needs the shim, but that white spot is still there. I guess I am stuck with it. She also does not sweat....ever...near that white spot. Her whole body can be in a sweat, but that area around the white spot stays dry. Also, the hair looks different in that area of the spot. I'm guessing it is just old nerve damage to that area from the previous owner's saddle. Drives me nuts. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Cheryl: The billy cook 1530 I tried says it has a "Pro Barrel Racer rawhide covered" tree. I looked up the 2031 you suggested and that says it has a "LM barrel racer" tree. Not sure how much different that is from the Courts I tried that had a "improved LM style" that did not fit him. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1552
Location: Texas | Throw out the shims! There are NOT the answer in 95% of all cases. I would suggest the Saddleright LEGACY pad with the Lockhart saddle. It has a 1/2 inch body and is 3/4 over the bar area only. It will take up some of the slack in the gullet area and balance the rest of the saddle. Wool felt pads break down and do not offer near as much protection as the Saddleright pad does. They also have a 30 day UNCONDITIONAL money back guarentee. If after riding it a few weeks if you are not happy SEND IT BACK. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Cowjazz - 2017-08-31 2:55 PM Throw out the shims! There are NOT the answer in 95% of all cases. I would suggest the Saddleright LEGACY pad with the Lockhart saddle. It has a 1/2 inch body and is 3/4 over the bar area only. It will take up some of the slack in the gullet area and balance the rest of the saddle. Wool felt pads break down and do not offer near as much protection as the Saddleright pad does. They also have a 30 day UNCONDITIONAL money back guarentee. If after riding it a few weeks if you are not happy SEND IT BACK.
I'd much rather find a saddle that doesn't need a shim or a special pad, if possible. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
Location: Alberta Canada | Yes, saddle shopping sucks!! My gelding has the dip behind his shoulders, so I ended up getting a Reinsman Contour Swayback Tacky Saddle Pad from Horse Saddle Shop. The build up in the bar area is 1/2", then 1 3/4", then back to 1/2", so far I have noticed that my gelding is way freer with his front end and you can now see that the pad has full contact with his back. My saddle I use is a Caldwell Pro Max and a Back on Track Liner, and in a recent saddle fitting, I was told that until I get his topline built up more I will need to use a built up pad like this for any saddle I put on him. I was doing the shimming thing, but also struggled doing it correctly. This pad I would highly recommend for your situation. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I tried different trees and styles on a lot of well known saddles-Ammerman, Crates, Triple Creek etc etc and they all pinched in exactly the same place. The only diff they had is some had more rock. So I tried a Meleta Brown and it fit like a glove. Use the same tree on a HUS horse and my 15.2 Firewater Finale gelding that is very stocky. It has just the right flare to stay off the shoulder and the rock or lack of is just right. They are hard to find though. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Happy to report I found a saddle!! There was a vendor at our state show this weekend and I tried a few saddles on my horse and by some miracle, one of them fit perfectly! (Too small of a seat for me though, so I didn't go home with it.)
It's a Circle Y XP Silesia saddle. I only took this picture to remember what it looked like, so it doesn't really show fit or anything, but I'm just SO happy to have found something. At this point, I didn't care what brand it was or what it looked like, it just wanted one that fit. I can't say I'm a fan of the buckstitch, but I'm fine with it because it fits! Was interested to learn that the tree has a lifetime warranty. I don't think I've ever seen one with a lifetime warranty.
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | I'm right there with ya on the buckstitch, but kudos to you that you were able to find something! I hadn't heard of that one before. You're sure it fits with a pad, etc?
Edited by horsegirl 2017-09-05 10:00 AM
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | horsegirl - 2017-09-05 9:52 AM I'm right there with ya on the buckstitch, but kudos to you that you were able to find something! I hadn't heard of that one before. You're sure it fits with a pad, etc?
I too had never heard of the XP line. The saddle guy told me Circle Y says it's their "higher end" line ... whatever that means, LOL. It's really not any more expensive than some of the other Circle Y saddles.
There was smooth even contact all along the tree. I couldn't believe how perfect it was.
No I didn't go grab my pad, but I did mount up with it uncinched to see what the seat felt like. I just use a plain 5 Star pad (1/2") so that shouldn't matter, so long as the saddle fits his back (which it does).
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Ha, just my luck. The saddle that fits him is discontinued. The saddle shop did searching for me and they ONE with Circle Y in my seat size I need, but the saddle has blue/turquoise buckstitching which I am NOT a fan of .... but I ordered it anyway because I don't care --- it fits my horse!
Maybe the color will grow on me....
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Saddle Fit .... he's getting a white spot. :-(