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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
  
| I know some of you have various backgrounds and some still compete in English. I competed in English classes and some minor breed show jumping classes when I was a kid/teen.
My current English saddle sucks. LOL. It feels like I'm sliding off the back of it, no matter what I do, or what horse it's on.
Does anyone have any suggestions for a decent type of saddle that has more of a high back/deeper seat? I don't know what to look for.
I want to show my 2yo in some local shows and feel English would be a better bet than western in order to not slow her down too much, but get her out into a pen. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | depending on what you want to spend. Mid priced but still very nice and respectable saddles are the Collegiate. I think my whole set up was around $750. That was my first one and I loved it. Dover makes their own brand called a Circuit, I paid for a demo from their store and it was under $400. I use it at home for just messing around. I like it but the leather is not great. Stiffer, but the saddle does fit and rides nice. My show saddle is a Pessoa Gen X Prestige. It is very durable, fits my horse great and I get a lot of compliments. I think it was around or just under $2000. They have some really really nice saddles that are $6k plus but for AQHA shows it is pretty rediculous to pay that. Most have saddles similar to mine.
You might want to check your panel length too. If you are taller and have short panels on your saddle, it will make you feel like you are running out the back end. I'm very short so actually have a hard time finding a saddle with short panels to accomodate me. Oh and seat size might make you feel like you are coming out the back. Seems english saddles are 2" plus what you use for a barrel saddle. I was told rule of thumb when sitting in it have about 4 fingers behind your bottom and the back of the saddle. Some english experts might chime in here for you on that.
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2017-10-03 2:21 PM
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Yeah, I'm out on spending more than probably 7-800, since it's just for local fun.  |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Nateracer - 2017-10-03 1:23 PM Yeah, I'm out on spending more than probably 7-800, since it's just for local fun.
I swear by the Collegiates then. Mine was so beatiful and very soft leather. It came with a girth, irons and leathers for that on ebay. I wish I had kept it but I wanted a darker leather for my dark brown horse. The Circuit I bought on a whim and probably should sell it. It really doesn't get used much. It is well made, but like I mentioned it doesn't have that butter soft leather. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
 
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Call Teskey's and ask for Andrea. She's helped me with a few English saddles for my little sister since that's not my fortay. My little sisters coach approved of fit for her and the horse since that's over my head. Ended up needing a cutback saddle with a little extra flair in the padding.
They have lots of saddles in that range. Free 10 day trial as well. (817) 599-3400
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | I am assuming you are looking for a jumping saddle. Jumping saddle do tend to have flatter seats than say a dressage or all-purpose.
And as you know, the English saddle has to fit the horse too.
Do you feel like your current saddle is the right seat size for you? Is it possible it is too small? I know the "rule of thumb" is to add 2 inches to an English saddle, from what you ride in Western but I would say that I am out of that norm. I normally ride in a 14.5" or 15" barrel saddle and my jumping saddle is a 17.5" seat.
I got lucky/spoiled with my English saddle. My trainer had access to some saddles for me to try and we found that a Tad Coffin fit him perfectly, and me too! A brand new Tad Coffin A5 jumping saddle is $6,000. Ummmm, no. But I found a used one that was in fantastic condition for only $1,600. Such a steal!
Dover has a loaner saddle program so that you can actually ride in the saddle several times. I tried a few saddles with them before I found the Tad Coffin. They were great to work with. They also have some reasonably priced saddles too.
Okay and now I just have to share pictures for the fun of it.
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| I love the collegiate saddles as well. They are well built, will balanced, with a forgiving fit that works for most horses. Older model Stubben and Crosby are very nice, but normally have to be reflocked. However, even after the cost of reflocking (~$250), they are still a very good value.
Do not buy a used saddle with a wrinkle in the seat. A wrinkle means a broken or sprung tree. If the leather on the seat has been worn through, it's an expensive fix ($700-800). Those people who have said add 2-3 inches over your western size are pretty much right. If you are tall, look for a forward flap and an 18". Too big is not really a thing, but too small is a pain in the back. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1384
Location: Kansas | r_beau - 2017-10-03 5:13 PM I am assuming you are looking for a jumping saddle. Jumping saddle do tend to have flatter seats than say a dressage or all-purpose.
And as you know, the English saddle has to fit the horse too.
Do you feel like your current saddle is the right seat size for you? Is it possible it is too small? I know the "rule of thumb" is to add 2 inches to an English saddle, from what you ride in Western but I would say that I am out of that norm. I normally ride in a 14.5" or 15" barrel saddle and my jumping saddle is a 17.5" seat.
I got lucky/spoiled with my English saddle. My trainer had access to some saddles for me to try and we found that a Tad Coffin fit him perfectly, and me too! A brand new Tad Coffin A5 jumping saddle is $6,000. Ummmm, no. But I found a used one that was in fantastic condition for only $1,600. Such a steal!
Dover has a loaner saddle program so that you can actually ride in the saddle several times. I tried a few saddles with them before I found the Tad Coffin. They were great to work with. They also have some reasonably priced saddles too.
Okay and now I just have to share pictures for the fun of it.
A lot of jumpers ride in very deep seat saddles, hunters and those who only do flat classes usually have a less deep seat. It is personal preference.
Collegiates are good, Bates Caprilli are very nice, the older Crosbys are good and very cheap
Go for a better quality used saddle than a new cheaper made saddle
My two saddles are 15 & 20 yrs old. If it is a well made saddle and taken care of it last forever
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Expert
Posts: 1384
Location: Kansas | hannahbug - 2017-10-03 9:14 PM I love the collegiate saddles as well. They are well built, will balanced, with a forgiving fit that works for most horses. Older model Stubben and Crosby are very nice, but normally have to be reflocked. However, even after the cost of reflocking (~$250), they are still a very good value. Do not buy a used saddle with a wrinkle in the seat. A wrinkle means a broken or sprung tree. If the leather on the seat has been worn through, it's an expensive fix ($700-800). Those people who have said add 2-3 inches over your western size are pretty much right. If you are tall, look for a forward flap and an 18". Too big is not really a thing, but too small is a pain in the back.
Most of the older Crosby's are built with a high grade of foam and do not need to be flocked.
I do not know about Stubbens
Many current cheap saddles are built with a cheap foam that will flatten and/or get lumpy in just a few years |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| If you’re struggling with your current saddle and don’t have access to a lot to try, I highly recommend the Dover loaner program! Likely there is also someone there who perhaps could look at some pictures of you in your current saddle and make suggestions on what models to try - I’ve heard nothing but good things about them.
It’s been years since I rode English and I shed a tear when I sold my last saddle (I don’t miss it but thought at the time I would). My last saddle was a Pessoa, I don’t remember the model but it was older and no frills - pencil rolls and a plain flap, no padding. I also had a GenX at one point that I liked until I outgrew it. We rode a lot of Collegiate and Crosby’s in college and they held up fairly well under a lot of abuse. |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Here is a pic of my saddle. I feel that it's a flat seat. I searched for deep seat english saddles yesterday and didn't get squat. It's not a term for them apparently! This is a jumping saddle, I think. Would an all-purpose be more what I need?
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Expert
Posts: 1384
Location: Kansas | Nateracer - 2017-10-04 8:21 AM Here is a pic of my saddle. I feel that it's a flat seat. I searched for deep seat english saddles yesterday and didn't get squat. It's not a term for them apparently! This is a jumping saddle, I think. Would an all-purpose be more what I need?
LOL !
I was always told all purpose = no purpose.
You have to work hard to get a correct jumping position in them
Your saddle seat looks typical. If you are sliding off the back you might need to adjust you seat and leg position. Is your saddle too small for you? |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Sangria - 2017-10-04 9:46 AM Nateracer - 2017-10-04 8:21 AM Here is a pic of my saddle. I feel that it's a flat seat. I searched for deep seat english saddles yesterday and didn't get squat. It's not a term for them apparently! This is a jumping saddle, I think. Would an all-purpose be more what I need?
LOL !
I was always told all purpose = no purpose.
You have to work hard to get a correct jumping position in them
Your saddle seat looks typical. If you are sliding off the back you might need to adjust you seat and leg position. Is your saddle too small for you?
I'm not going to be jumping, at least as far as I know! I just want something to keep me from sliding off the rear. I ride as forward on this one as I can, but I still go out the back. Just want something for local english pleasure classes for a couple of years.
There's a possibility that it's too small, but I'm not sure. I'd have to measure it to see what size it actually is. |
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Expert
Posts: 1384
Location: Kansas | Nateracer - 2017-10-04 10:01 AM Sangria - 2017-10-04 9:46 AM Nateracer - 2017-10-04 8:21 AM Here is a pic of my saddle. I feel that it's a flat seat. I searched for deep seat english saddles yesterday and didn't get squat. It's not a term for them apparently! This is a jumping saddle, I think. Would an all-purpose be more what I need?
LOL !
I was always told all purpose = no purpose.
You have to work hard to get a correct jumping position in them
Your saddle seat looks typical. If you are sliding off the back you might need to adjust you seat and leg position. Is your saddle too small for you?
There's a possibility that it's too small, but I'm not sure. I'd have to measure it to see what size it actually is.
A general guide line is you should be able to fit a flat hands width between the cantle and your body.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 670
Location: Running my kids somewhere. | It took me a bit to find an English saddle that find me. The saddle fitter told me it was because I was used to riding colts. If you are looking for something for local shows I would go with an all-purpose or close contact. You can do rail work as well as small jumps with out a problem.
I am sending you a pm. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | English saddles often require a half pad to lift and level the back if you have a horse built uphill or whatever. They make different pads depending on what your horse's conformation is like and some have inserts you can add/remove. This is another reason you may feel you are falling out the back end. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | If you are just playing around, you just need to get what fits you and your horse and don't worry about all purpose or close contact. You will get a diff answer with each trainer you talk to. Much like any other event. I think when I was trying saddles out (and that Dover saddle trial is the bomb-you can always send it back and get one somewhere else cheaper later), I seemed to prefer the fit of the Close Contacts. I do want to jump and some have thigh or knee blocks. The man I was talking with when ordering mine said if you need that thigh block, you are already going to be in trouble and half out the back door over a jump. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 670
Location: Running my kids somewhere. | Nateracer - 2017-10-04 8:21 AM Here is a pic of my saddle. I feel that it's a flat seat. I searched for deep seat english saddles yesterday and didn't get squat. It's not a term for them apparently! This is a jumping saddle, I think. Would an all-purpose be more what I need?
Your saddle looks more like a jumping saddle. They are flatter. My HDR dressage saddle helps me sit deeper and is like sitting on the couch. My jumping saddle is a completely different ride but does serve it's propose. Many all-purpose saddles give you the deeper seat much like a barrel saddle. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | The saddle pictured is a flat hunter saddle, think show ring hunters. Equitation and jumper saddles do have deeper seats/higher cantle. It might be that you need a bigger size or more than likely you are not keeping your lower leg under neath you. Can you 2-point and ride in 2-point easily at the walk, trot and canter for 30 mins or more? Way back when, I used to hate a solid hour long lesson in 2-point but this will build your balance and leg strength. Not sure I could even go an entire hour in 2-point anymore but it is a great excercise to get your lower leg under you and stretch tall, you do not want too much hip angle. |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| hotpaints - 2017-10-05 1:40 PM The saddle pictured is a flat hunter saddle, think show ring hunters. Equitation and jumper saddles do have deeper seats/higher cantle. It might be that you need a bigger size or more than likely you are not keeping your lower leg under neath you. Can you 2-point and ride in 2-point easily at the walk, trot and canter for 30 mins or more? Way back when, I used to hate a solid hour long lesson in 2-point but this will build your balance and leg strength. Not sure I could even go an entire hour in 2-point anymore but it is a great excercise to get your lower leg under you and stretch tall, you do not want too much hip angle.
I don't know exactly what that means, but I was taught that you should look down and see your big toe when you are riding. (looked up 2 point, and yes, that would be proper English equitation) Not going to say it's easy at this point because I'm somewhat out of practice, but I won english equitation classes in breed and open shows up until I was 18 and went on to barrels. I dabbled in a bit of hunter under saddle with guidance from Pony Club members. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | Nateracer - 2017-10-05 1:50 PM hotpaints - 2017-10-05 1:40 PM The saddle pictured is a flat hunter saddle, think show ring hunters. Equitation and jumper saddles do have deeper seats/higher cantle. It might be that you need a bigger size or more than likely you are not keeping your lower leg under neath you. Can you 2-point and ride in 2-point easily at the walk, trot and canter for 30 mins or more? Way back when, I used to hate a solid hour long lesson in 2-point but this will build your balance and leg strength. Not sure I could even go an entire hour in 2-point anymore but it is a great excercise to get your lower leg under you and stretch tall, you do not want too much hip angle. I don't know exactly what that means, but I was taught that you should look down and see your big toe when you are riding. (looked up 2 point, and yes, that would be proper English equitation) Not going to say it's easy at this point because I'm somewhat out of practice, but I won english equitation classes in breed and open shows up until I was 18 and went on to barrels. I dabbled in a bit of hunter under saddle with guidance from Pony Club members.
2-point is considered the rider's jumping/cantering/galloping position, your butt is out of the saddle, think hovering over the saddle at the center of balance. 2-point is a little more out of the saddle than a half seat. 2-point will help you keep your weight in your lower leg/heels, stay balanced over the center of balance on your horse and teach you to post from the strength in your lower leg.
You already have experience and a general understanding, it will come back to you. Find a George Morris book. Also watch some video or go to a show ring hunter show, not a breed show, and watch the riders in the over fences classes. Even a true Hunter under Saddle rider rides in 2-point at the canter but of course posts at the trot and sits at the walk, I'm not referring to breed shows but USEF show ring Hunters.
Good luck and have fun. I too am struggling to find something for my 2yo to do while he is maturing and in training. I like the added stress and excitment from showing in something vs. just hauling off the farm to ride/train somewhere. Competing even at the local level just adds new challenges in a good way for young horses and better prepares them for competing in the future.
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Location: Choctaw, OK | I'm super picky on what english saddle i use. I absolutely hated the dover circuit and HDR..very unbalanced. Some collegiates have really deep seats, just make sure they fit your horse. I absolutely loved my Prestige Eventer! Deep seat, knee and thigh blocks, extremely comfy, fit horses well and held me in..and yes it was a jumping saddle. I bought it used for 750. I'm now looking for an Intrepid Arwen Deluxe after trying one. I think it will fit my particular horse, has a deep seat and balanced feel, it's made for freer shoulder movement of the horse, and is wool flocked. Like 1300 new. Check tack trader for used prestige and arwens!
I posted a pic of the intrepid arwen deluxe
Edited by RoughstockKennel 2017-10-06 8:35 AM
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Sparklin Cowgirl
Posts: 4379
| I would look for an AP or All-Purpose saddle. That would have a deeper seat than a close contact. (an AP is really not ideal for over fences but it will do the job.)
If you are planning on just flatting around you may want to look into all-purpose saddles. I have a Crosby CC and LOVE it but it is all personal preference. A lot of it has to do with leg position and pressure as well. If your leg isn't balanced, an English saddle of any kind is going to highlight that. I think it's great that you are wanting to do different things with your 2 year old! I take mine in a rail class from time to time to get them doing something different in the area.
Bates and HDR both make a nice AP saddle I believe. Pessoa is another great brand if you can find one used. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | For local flat classes, a good all purpose english saddle would be just fine. People are hard on them but they're usually comfy and for just basic english riding they get the job done. Here's one to look at that I've only heard great things about over the years: http://saddlefitter.com/berlin.htm Thornhill in general is a good, reasonably priced brand and you should have no trouble finding used ones in your price range. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 682
Location: Northwest | Gunnin to Play - 2017-10-06 6:44 AM
I would look for an AP or All-Purpose saddle. That would have a deeper seat than a close contact. (an AP is really not ideal for over fences but it will do the job.)
If you are planning on just flatting around you may want to look into all-purpose saddles. I have a Crosby CC and LOVE it but it is all personal preference. A lot of it has to do with leg position and pressure as well. If your leg isn't balanced, an English saddle of any kind is going to highlight that. I think it's great that you are wanting to do different things with your 2 year old! I take mine in a rail class from time to time to get them doing something different in the area.
Bates and HDR both make a nice AP saddle I believe. Pessoa is another great brand if you can find one used.
I sold my AP Stubben Siegfried last year that I had had for about 20 years. That was a very comfortable saddle and you can find older used ones in excellent shape for not that much money ($300-500). Highly recommend finding one. |
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