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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
 
| Would you prefer an own daughter of FG or ASG? Both out of daughters of nice race stallions. Both are put together very nicely.
(Rightfully so, FG filly is double the price..).
I know many factors influence decisions, but I want to hear all opinions!!! As riding horses, for resale, broodmares....I would like to hear what would affect your choice if it were yours!
Which would you lean towards, and why? :) |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
  
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I'd get the one I could afford or the one that would have the best value as a broodmare because that's what I do. The FG daughter might be more expensive but she would also have higher resale and broodmare value when she's done riding.
But to ride, it would purely matter what they themselves look and act like. |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | FG. I don't condone breeding horses that carry a known genetic defect. Regardless of what they have sired... |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| ASG is nice, and has a great future ahead of himself, but right now he is nothing compared to his sire. |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | wyoming barrel racer - 2017-10-04 1:26 PM FG. I don't condone breeding horses that carry a known genetic defect. Regardless of what they have sired...
^^^^this. Especially if you are looking to breed. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | livinonlove&horses - 2017-10-04 12:59 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2017-10-04 1:26 PM FG. I don't condone breeding horses that carry a known genetic defect. Regardless of what they have sired... ^^^^this. Especially if you are looking to breed.
and before someone mentions it, I do understand that if the mare is n/n it is safe to breed. But I still don't believe in it. I see foals all the time for sale because no one bothered to test the mare before breeding and/or didn't really understand what the results mean and now these foals inherit it. Stallion owners can advertise the results all they want, but it doesn't mean the mare owners have sense enough to test their mares. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | wyoming barrel racer - 2017-10-04 2:20 PM livinonlove&horses - 2017-10-04 12:59 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2017-10-04 1:26 PM FG. I don't condone breeding horses that carry a known genetic defect. Regardless of what they have sired... ^^^^this. Especially if you are looking to breed.
agreed. Was aqha proposing to have all mares tested that were used for breeding purposes? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| Would it make a difference to anyone if the filly was 5 panel negative? |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| I simply would not breed anything to a known carrier of a genetic defect.
Edited by brlraceaddict 2017-10-04 6:51 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| Excuse my stupidness here, but which sire carries a genetic defect of these two? I'm also looking at a FG daughter that's ready to start on the pattern! |
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 Nothing Comes Easy
Posts: 2353
Location: Texas | Wild1 - 2017-10-04 8:38 PM Excuse my stupidness here, but which sire carries a genetic defect of these two? I'm also looking at a FG daughter that's ready to start on the pattern!
A Smooth Guy carries the Herda and GBED gene. |
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| I agree with a lot of the other posters, I would not buy a foal out of or breed to a sire that has a known genetic defect, even if the mare or foal itself is N/N.
We had to have our TB mare DNA tested before she could be registered with the AQHA for her foal to be registered, so I think they are becoming more strict on making sure all horses are tested. I personally would require every mare to be 5 panel tested if I had a stallion I was standing.
There are certain bloodlines we are choosing to stay away from because of the genetic disorders, even though there are some amazing stallions that we would love to breed to or buy offspring from.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| madredepeanut - 2017-10-05 8:10 AM
I agree with a lot of the other posters, I would not buy a foal out of or breed to a sire that has a known genetic defect, even if the mare or foal itself is N/N.
We had to have our TB mare DNA tested before she could be registered with the AQHA for her foal to be registered, so I think they are becoming more strict on making sure all horses are tested. I personally would require every mare to be 5 panel tested if I had a stallion I was standing.
There are certain bloodlines we are choosing to stay away from because of the genetic disorders, even though there are some amazing stallions that we would love to breed to or buy offspring from.
I'm genuinely asking this because I don't know the answer. Not trying to challenge you!
But why, even if a foal was N/N,would you not consider it? If the horse doesn't carry the gene (even though it's sire does), does it matter?
Again, asking to learn!!!!!! I know tone can't come across on a computer. I'm genuinely wanting to learn. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| dRowe - 2017-10-05 8:33 AM
madredepeanut - 2017-10-05 8:10 AM
I agree with a lot of the other posters, I would not buy a foal out of or breed to a sire that has a known genetic defect, even if the mare or foal itself is N/N.
We had to have our TB mare DNA tested before she could be registered with the AQHA for her foal to be registered, so I think they are becoming more strict on making sure all horses are tested. I personally would require every mare to be 5 panel tested if I had a stallion I was standing.
There are certain bloodlines we are choosing to stay away from because of the genetic disorders, even though there are some amazing stallions that we would love to breed to or buy offspring from.
I'm genuinely asking this because I don't know the answer. Not trying to challenge you!
But why, even if a foal was N/N,would you not consider it? If the horse doesn't carry the gene (even though it's sire does ), does it matter?
Again, asking to learn!!!!!! I know tone can't come across on a computer. I'm genuinely wanting to learn.
I feel the same way as this poster and my reasoning is this.... I believe that there are a lot yet to be known about the genetic diseases. I look at this 15 years ago to now and the major differences. And I really believe stallions should be the best of the best, no defects and therefore, I only support horses that meet the criteria I personally want.
This isn't meant to be mean but its just my own personal opinion/choice. |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | dRowe - 2017-10-05 7:33 AM madredepeanut - 2017-10-05 8:10 AM I agree with a lot of the other posters, I would not buy a foal out of or breed to a sire that has a known genetic defect, even if the mare or foal itself is N/N. We had to have our TB mare DNA tested before she could be registered with the AQHA for her foal to be registered, so I think they are becoming more strict on making sure all horses are tested. I personally would require every mare to be 5 panel tested if I had a stallion I was standing. There are certain bloodlines we are choosing to stay away from because of the genetic disorders, even though there are some amazing stallions that we would love to breed to or buy offspring from. I'm genuinely asking this because I don't know the answer. Not trying to challenge you! But why, even if a foal was N/N,would you not consider it? If the horse doesn't carry the gene (even though it's sire does ), does it matter? Again, asking to learn!!!!!! I know tone can't come across on a computer. I'm genuinely wanting to learn.
My reason is that I will not support that kind of breeding program. With the knowledge we have today, we should be trying to eliminate the problems not continue it (because money talks). With shipped semen and breeders who 99% won't even look into what kind of mare is booked to their stallion, it is way too easy for an un educated mare owner that has a mare with 1 copy of the GBED or HERDA gene etc to book to a stallion with the same copy and produce a foal with the disease or even just a foal that has 1 copy....generations down the road we haven't eliminated a darn thing.
I won't support clones either but that is another can of worms. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | dRowe - 2017-10-04 1:50 PM
Would it make a difference to anyone if the filly was 5 panel negative?
My opinion doesn't change no matter if she is GBED or HERDA positive or not. All I have to do is make sure I don't breed her to a GBED or HERDA positive stallion. There are literally 41654616516513513 of them. I would worry more about possible P2 variants because those are dominant in large part. Expression can vary but they will pass on to the next generation. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | madredepeanut - 2017-10-05 5:10 AM
I agree with a lot of the other posters, I would not buy a foal out of or breed to a sire that has a known genetic defect, even if the mare or foal itself is N/N.
We had to have our TB mare DNA tested before she could be registered with the AQHA for her foal to be registered, so I think they are becoming more strict on making sure all horses are tested. I personally would require every mare to be 5 panel tested if I had a stallion I was standing.
There are certain bloodlines we are choosing to stay away from because of the genetic disorders, even though there are some amazing stallions that we would love to breed to or buy offspring from.
First. If they are N/N for any of the disorders, they don't have it. Period.
Second. All TB's have to be DNA tested for PARENTAGE. They are not being tested for genetic mutations that affect performance. They are literally loaded with genetically undesirable mutations. MOST P2 variants come through TB's and have been introduced to AQHA horses through the foundation stock and outcrossing. You are not protected from it just because you had to parentage verify your TB foal.
Third. The 5 panel is completely outdated. Yes you still want to do it because it's easy and it will help inform you of some of the most well known genetic defects. However, there are 156465165216521 more defects just waiting to be discovered and I'd be very surprised if I and you don't have some horses with them. It's more important how we deal with the disorders than whether they are there or not. Because they most certainly ARE THERE.
Fourth. We can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If we do, we'll have nothing left to ride. Some the finest sires of race and barrel horses have some of the P2 variants. If you ride or breed anything they are there.
Edited by OregonBR 2017-10-05 12:15 PM
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | I have one that I thought was n/n and we tested her. She carries one copy of HERDA. We only found out when we went to register her foal and went ahead and tested her. The buyer of the foal tested the foal and thank god that foal tested N/N or I would've lost a sale. I won't buy a horse that isn't tested. |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | OregonBR - 2017-10-05 10:02 AM madredepeanut - 2017-10-05 5:10 AM I agree with a lot of the other posters, I would not buy a foal out of or breed to a sire that has a known genetic defect, even if the mare or foal itself is N/N. We had to have our TB mare DNA tested before she could be registered with the AQHA for her foal to be registered, so I think they are becoming more strict on making sure all horses are tested. I personally would require every mare to be 5 panel tested if I had a stallion I was standing. There are certain bloodlines we are choosing to stay away from because of the genetic disorders, even though there are some amazing stallions that we would love to breed to or buy offspring from. First. If they are N/N for any of the disorders, they don't have it. Period. Second. All TB's have to be DNA tested for PARENTAGE. They are not being tested for genetic mutations that affect performance. They are literally loaded with genetically undesirable mutations. MOST P2 variants come through TB's and have been introduced to AQHA horses through the foundation stock and outcrossing. You are not protected from it just because you had to parentage verify your TB foal. Third. The 5 panel is completely outdated. Yes you still want to do it because it's easy and it will help inform you of some of the most well known genetic defects. However, there are 156465165216521 more defects just waiting to be discovered and I'd be very surprised if I and you don't have some horses with them. It's more important how we deal with the disorders than whether they are there or not. Because they most certainly ARE THERE. Fourth. We can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If we do, we'll have nothing left to ride. Some the finest sires of race and barrel horses have some of the P2 variants. If you ride or breed anything they are there.
Very very good points. |
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| stayceem - 2017-10-05 7:04 AM
dRowe - 2017-10-05 8:33 AM
madredepeanut - 2017-10-05 8:10 AM
I agree with a lot of the other posters, I would not buy a foal out of or breed to a sire that has a known genetic defect, even if the mare or foal itself is N/N.
We had to have our TB mare DNA tested before she could be registered with the AQHA for her foal to be registered, so I think they are becoming more strict on making sure all horses are tested. I personally would require every mare to be 5 panel tested if I had a stallion I was standing.
There are certain bloodlines we are choosing to stay away from because of the genetic disorders, even though there are some amazing stallions that we would love to breed to or buy offspring from.
I'm genuinely asking this because I don't know the answer. Not trying to challenge you!
But why, even if a foal was N/N,would you not consider it? If the horse doesn't carry the gene (even though it's sire does ), does it matter?
Again, asking to learn!!!!!! I know tone can't come across on a computer. I'm genuinely wanting to learn.
I feel the same way as this poster and my reasoning is this.... I believe that there are a lot yet to be known about the genetic diseases. I look at this 15 years ago to now and the major differences. And I really believe stallions should be the best of the best, no defects and therefore, I only support horses that meet the criteria I personally want.
This isn't meant to be mean but its just my own personal opinion/choice.
Oh gosh, I am not trying to have any sort of ‘tone’ or come across as challenging in any way  That’s the darn problem with computers and not having a face-to-face conversation.
Our reasoning goes along the same lines as the other reply to your post here, and @wyomingbarrelracer, I think stallions should be the best of the best and we should not be passing down genetic defects even if the horses are stellar athletes.
I understand there are genetic mutations in the TB world, just like in any breed. But there’s a difference between mutations and defects. A mutation is a type of defect, and it’s not always a bad thing. Think of different colored eyes in humans, those are genetic mutations in our DNA. Defects are congenital disorders or diseases.
Yes, there is a difference between DNA testing to verify parentage and the 5 panel, but we also had her 5 panel tested and submitted that to the AQHA.
There is still so much to learn about equine genetics, and the defects we know about today could mutate again and someday become something completely different, but my husband and I would rather breed and raise horses that are free in every known aspect of any genetic defect, and try to keep the slate as clean as possible.
I also realize this is a heavily debated topic, and I’m just simply stating my opinion. I am not challenging anyone’s views, nor am I judging other people for theirs.
Edited by madredepeanut 2017-10-05 10:54 PM
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| Ask AQHA for their data records of how many horses for each of the
5 panel tests over the past 5 years have had any of the diseases.
Ask for pedigrees and photos of the top 5 horses with each of
the 5 panel tests that had the worst cases.
They cannot provide any factual data or photos of registered
horses. The same old photos keep showing up when some
fool writes another fear story. And of course no one can
identify the one or two horses in the blurred photos or what
country they were from.
The 5 panel tests are just a money grab for AQHA and UC of DAVIS.
Please stop encouraging them to take more money from their
membership. Enuff is never Enuff
On TB mares .. it has been standard protocol for AQHA to ask for
the DNA from the Jockey Club free of charge to the TB mare
owner. Now they have tacked on a $25 or $50 charge to get
a "T" number for your TB mares bred to a qh stallion. This
is not for a DNA test.
AQHA keeps eyeing the high registration fees to register a TB
foal ... so... stop the nonsense or you will be paying a set fee of
$500 to register a 7 month old foal!!!
For instance .. I was at McDonalds with a friend this evening
and her young son orders and pays at the counter for his own
food as a learning tool. He knows the exact amount he pays
for a given order and turned to his Mom to ask for an additional
$1.50 because the prices had gone up this past week. His $5
meal is now almost $7. It made us aware that everything
had gone up across the board >30% .. except the ice cream
cones are still $1 but they eliminated dipping them in chocolate ..
grrrrrrr ... lol
Prices on parts for trucks, tractors, farm equipment and even lawnmowers
have more than tripled in price!! It just keeps getting crazier
and crazier with everyone wanting to become millionaires.
The killer is the price of a light bulb these days with less lumens
to trick you into thinking it is burning less electricity .. lol
Have a nice day!!
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2017-10-06 3:16 AM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | madredepeanut - 2017-10-05 9:45 PM stayceem - 2017-10-05 7:04 AM dRowe - 2017-10-05 8:33 AM madredepeanut - 2017-10-05 8:10 AM I agree with a lot of the other posters, I would not buy a foal out of or breed to a sire that has a known genetic defect, even if the mare or foal itself is N/N. We had to have our TB mare DNA tested before she could be registered with the AQHA for her foal to be registered, so I think they are becoming more strict on making sure all horses are tested. I personally would require every mare to be 5 panel tested if I had a stallion I was standing. There are certain bloodlines we are choosing to stay away from because of the genetic disorders, even though there are some amazing stallions that we would love to breed to or buy offspring from. I'm genuinely asking this because I don't know the answer. Not trying to challenge you! But why, even if a foal was N/N,would you not consider it? If the horse doesn't carry the gene (even though it's sire does ), does it matter? Again, asking to learn!!!!!! I know tone can't come across on a computer. I'm genuinely wanting to learn. I feel the same way as this poster and my reasoning is this.... I believe that there are a lot yet to be known about the genetic diseases. I look at this 15 years ago to now and the major differences. And I really believe stallions should be the best of the best, no defects and therefore, I only support horses that meet the criteria I personally want. This isn't meant to be mean but its just my own personal opinion/choice. Oh gosh, I am not trying to have any sort of ‘tone’ or come across as challenging in any way That’s the darn problem with computers and not having a face-to-face conversation. Our reasoning goes along the same lines as the other reply to your post here, and @wyomingbarrelracer, I think stallions should be the best of the best and we should not be passing down genetic defects even if the horses are stellar athletes. I understand there are genetic mutations in the TB world, just like in any breed. But there’s a difference between mutations and defects. A mutation is a type of defect, and it’s not always a bad thing. Think of different colored eyes in humans, those are genetic mutations in our DNA. Defects are congenital disorders or diseases. Yes, there is a difference between DNA testing to verify parentage and the 5 panel, but we also had her 5 panel tested and submitted that to the AQHA. There is still so much to learn about equine genetics, and the defects we know about today could mutate again and someday become something completely different, but my husband and I would rather breed and raise horses that are free in every known aspect of any genetic defect, and try to keep the slate as clean as possible. I also realize this is a heavily debated topic, and I’m just simply stating my opinion. I am not challenging anyone’s views, nor am I judging other people for theirs.
I agree. No tone meant here either. We have all these wonderful horses to choose from, I just see no point in breeding to something we KNOW has a defect.. Regardless if there will be other defects found in the future, what we know here and now, I will not breed to those with known defects. |
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Frenchmans Guy or A Smooth Guy?