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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Why? Why is this important? What was wrong with having Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts? This is political correctness taken to an extreme. Am I missing something?
The world has gone nuts, I swear. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I AGREE! What in THE hell is happening to our country?? We're a bunch of whiney, offended snowflakes. |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| Next is going to be boys in the girl scouts.... it is sad |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | My generation is a bunch of whiney babies, I'm so embarrassed to be considered one of them. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| If they are going to allow girls in the boys and boys in the girls, why don't they just call it Scouts and teach everyone everything??
Boys need to be able to sew and cook, etc, and girls need to know how to tie knots and use a knife, etc.
But the reason they were separate was for the comradere (sp?) and knowing you could be independent on your own because you were a fearless boy or girl. I don't understand the point if they are mixed. It's just another club then.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | As a girl scout growing up I was a member of a rural troop. We did all of the outdoor camping, hiking, knife skills, fire making etc etc that I suppose the boy scouts did. I also learned basic cooking skills (again...mostly outdoor on a campfire). Sure we did crafts and learned Morse code and other more indoor stuff...but the point was we learned to work together with other girls and built social skills as well. And...my gold and silver awards were included on my college applications etc.
I see absolutely no need for girls to join a boy scout troop. Unless there isn't a girl scout troop in their area possibly. It just seems to be a solution in search of a problem...and some publicity/drama. |
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  Ms. Marine
Posts: 4641
Location: Texas | Truly can't say I'm surprised. SMH |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | From what I read, they have been admitting girls in limited programs already and the plan looks like one where they will still have gender separated 'dens' for local programs and allow girls to become eagle scouts which hasn't been allowed in the more limited admissions they had done previously. I don't honestly see any harm in that, especially if they are still keeping things generally separated and just letting girls they were already allowing in access to certain honors.
It does seem misleading to still call it boy scouts though. They should just call it Scouts as someone else said. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think this was one of those rare topics where I couldn't imagine anyone offering a remotely sensible explanation for this change.
I'm sure someone will come up with some convoluted, albeit twisted, rationale. I can't imagine what that will be. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 823
Location: East Texas | As an eagle scout, I long ago quit supporting the BSA when they got away from the morals and principles they were founded on. It is a sad commentary on society in general. |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | Do youngsters even join anymore. I don't know a lot of kids these days but never hear any speak of being a member of Scouts. The ones I do know, unless it involved a laptop or a cellphone, wouldn't think it was "cool."
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Frodo - 2017-10-12 9:44 AM Do youngsters even join anymore. I don't know a lot of kids these days but never hear any speak of being a member of Scouts. The ones I do know, unless it involved a laptop or a cellphone, wouldn't think it was "cool."
All but one of our Girl Scout camps on the eastern side of Iowa have closed. Girls just weren't coming because it got too expensive and then there were the ones who couldn't leave the AC for more than 5 min. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Oh yeah this is the biggest problem BSA has ever had! Forget all of the rape that has been going on within this organization. We must draw the line at allowing girls to join. |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| Frodo - 2017-10-12 9:44 AM
Do youngsters even join anymore. I don't know a lot of kids these days but never hear any speak of being a member of Scouts. The ones I do know, unless it involved a laptop or a cellphone, wouldn't think it was "cool."
Oh yeah they join, I know because their PARENTS come to WORK to sell the cookies and popcorn (which is a WHOLE other topic). |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | SloRide - 2017-10-12 9:58 AM
Oh yeah this is the biggest problem BSA has ever had! Forget all of the rape that has been going on within this organization. We must draw the line at allowing girls to join.
Why am I not surprised? |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | SloRide - 2017-10-12 9:58 AM
Oh yeah this is the biggest problem BSA has ever had! Forget all of the rape that has been going on within this organization. We must draw the line at allowing girls to join.
So, I'm just curious. Because of the incidents, to which you refer, would you favor the Boy Scouts of America simply go away? |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| CrossDRanch - 2017-10-12 9:34 AM
As an eagle scout, I long ago quit supporting the BSA when they got away from the morals and principles they were founded on. It is a sad commentary on society in general.
Yup same here, the BSA had a decent program, but any organization so willing to cave to the politically correct protesters for fear of a law suit deserves to become extinct. The LDS church makes up about half of BSA in the US and even the church has been withdrawing as fast as they can. BSA has put the nail in their own coffin with this change. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 425
Location: California | 100% agree!! I think there needs to still be something in this world where girls can have their own thing and boys can also have their own thing. Why does everything have to be all mixed up?! I'm all for equality and what not, but this is on a whole other level. |
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Expert
Posts: 1343
Location: East Texas | oija - 2017-10-12 8:41 AM
From what I read, they have been admitting girls in limited programs already and the plan looks like one where they will still have gender separated 'dens' for local programs and allow girls to become eagle scouts which hasn't been allowed in the more limited admissions they had done previously. I don't honestly see any harm in that, especially if they are still keeping things generally separated and just letting girls they were already allowing in access to certain honors.
It does seem misleading to still call it boy scouts though. They should just call it Scouts as someone else said.
That's where I see the problem... they won't keep it separated:
The change takes effect in 2018 when girls can begin signing up for Cub Scouts and the release says Cub Scout packs will remain single gender. Existing Boy Scout packs (which is for children aged 11-17) can choose between three options: make a new all-girl pack, make a co-ed a pack for girls and boys or remain an all-boy pack. A In 2018, the program for older girls to earn the Eagle Scout rank will be announced, which be implemented in 2019.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
| Wondering if its actually a numbers thing to keep the clubs going? enrollment is dropping, they have raised their dues, and pass it off as being "forward thinking" but really it was that or go under? Now our county is charging a fee for 4H membership. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| rushlvr - 2017-10-12 11:15 AM
Wondering if its actually a numbers thing to keep the clubs going? enrollment is dropping, they have raised their dues, and pass it off as being "forward thinking" but really it was that or go under? Now our county is charging a fee for 4H membership.
I doubt they would risk losing 450,000 lds boys to pick up maybe 10,000 girls. |
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Veteran
Posts: 134
| They have been letting girls into the BSA program for quite some time. I was part of their Venturing program in high school and that was 12 or so years ago. That gave me the ability to go to any of their camp grounds with my crew and earn awards. The only thing I couldn't do was participate in Order of Arrow and earn an Eagle Scout award as that was for males only.
So, the extinction of a true BOY scout only program happened over a decade ago. I think when they started the co-ed programs years ago the lines became blurred as it wasn't truly "boy" scouts anymore. Plus, it did in some way look bad that that girls were allowed in but couldn't participate in the two highest honors of the program.
If I had to guess this most current change is to get numbers up. I was heavily involved in high school at the district level and there were enrollment issues and declines back then too.
Edited by EagleJess 2017-10-12 11:46 AM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | If you take a step back, it's not hard to see how the Boy Scouts has declined in numbers, if indeed they have. I don't see snowflakes gravitating to something like the BSA all that much. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| whats the age range of "snowflake"? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Bear - 2017-10-12 11:01 AM
SloRide - 2017-10-12 9:58 AM
Oh yeah this is the biggest problem BSA has ever had! Forget all of the rape that has been going on within this organization. We must draw the line at allowing girls to join.
So, I'm just curious. Because of the incidents, to which you refer, would you favor the Boy Scouts of America simply go away?
I care more about the safety of the children involved in the group. Are you not aware of what has been going on with the BSA in the last few years? Actually it's been going on longer for much longer just not getting as much publicity until recently. No, I won't be encouraging my kids to join BSA.
Here are some examples.
"Joe Gibson, a former Scoutmaster in the St. Petersburg, Florida area, was convicted in June 1982.[36]
Lee Pontius, former Daytona Beach, Florida area Scoutmaster, and current Silver Beaver honoree, was convicted multiple times of molesting Boy Scouts, including on a November 1982 camping trip.[37]
Martin Turner, a leader in Texas, pleaded guilty in 2008 to two counts of indecency with a child by contact and one count of attempted indecency with a child by contact. He had abused two children in cases going back up to 40 years.[38]
Al Steven Stein, a former boy scout leader in Santa Barbara, California, was convicted in 2009 for felony child molestation and misdemeanor possession of child pornography. Stein and the Boy Scouts of America were sued for negligent training, knowledge of Stein's propensities, and failure to report. Roe v. Boy Scouts of America, Stein et al., settled in 2015 with the BSA. J. Geck awarded judgment against Stein. BSA has since changed some of its policies as requested by plaintiffs.[39]
David McDonald Rankin, a former Scoutmaster in College Park, Maryland, was convicted for abusing Scouts between 1984 and 1987.[40]
Gary Lee Gephart, a former Cub Scout leader in Oceanside, California, was convicted in 1996.[41]
Howard W. Curtis, a Haverhill, Massachusetts leader, pleaded guilty in May 2008 for acts occurring in the 1980s.[42]
James Hiatt, a former Boy Scout leader in Texas, was convicted in May 2008 for abuse that took place from about 2003 to 2005.[43][44]
Brad Stowell confessed to molesting 24 boys from 1989 until his arrest in 1997. Authorities working at the camp were warned numerous times during his employment. In 1988, at age 16, Stowell had previously admitted to police that he molested a 6-year-old, which Scout officials were also aware of.[45]
Gary Wade Brown, a former Boy Scout Leader in Orem, Utah, in 2009 pleaded guilty to four counts of sexual abuse of a child and sexual exploitation of a minor, second-degree felonies, and one count of lewdness involving a child, a Class A misdemeanor. Seven additional charges were dismissed as part of a plea agreement. The abuse involved a 12-year-old boy and took place between 2005 and 2006.[3]
Charles Donald Corley, a Boy Scout volunteer in Birmingham, Alabama, was convicted for sexual abuse against three young men in 1995.[46][47]
Richard Turley, a former volunteer in California, was convicted of kidnapping and sexually assaulting an 11-year-old Canadian scout. After 18 months, he was released from a mental institution and went right back to work, beginning his volunteer work at a California scout camp. In 1979, he assaulted three of those scouts. Upon learning this, Boy Scouts of American simply told Turley to return to Canada, not warning Scouts Canada of Turley's criminal behavior. In 1996, Turley went on to assault four boys, three of which were scouts, in Victoria, British Columbia. He was sentenced to seven years in prison.[48]
James Molyneaux, 2004, a former Boy Scout leader and 6th-grade English school teacher in Portville, New York, was arrested in connection to an abuse case of a 13-year-old in July 1997 at a campground owned by the Molyneaux family that was used for scouting activities and another case of an 11-year-old at his home in Portville, NY in September 2000. Although Molyneaux denied the charges, at trial he was found guilty of two counts of first-degree sodomy, two counts of second-degree sodomy, and one count of first-degree sexual abuse. Molyneaux is currently serving 17 1/2 to 23 years with a maximum sentence of 57 years in the Clinton Correctional Facility. The state has denied his appeal [49]
Garth David Snively, 1994, a former Boy Scout leader, was convicted for two counts of first-degree child molestation and sentenced to 11 years after his 1993 arrest for molesting at least 20 Boy Scout members of various ages over several years, as well as while a mentor in the Big Brothers program. His victims testified in court that while at his home in Everett, Washington, Snively would apply baby powder to and fondle their genitals, make them wear diapers and, in addition, make them fondle, powder and diaper him.[50] A Level III sex offender, Snively was released and now resides in Centralia, Washington.[51]
Richard Merry was an assistant Scout Leader in Troop 691, part of the Georgia Coastal Counsel, from 2006-2010. In September 2011, Merry was found guilty of victimizing several Boy Scouts in a general court martial and sentenced to 52 years of confinement and dishonorably discharged from the U.S. Navy. He is currently incarcerated at Leavenworth US Penitentiary.
Like I said in the Weinstine post, rape culture is a thing.
Edit: autocorrect
Edited by SloRide 2017-10-12 12:06 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | So the solution to these perverts is what? Abolish the Boy Scouts?
If you had your way, Slo Ride, is that your preferred solution?
Do you favor allowing girls to join the Boy Scouts? |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Whiteboy - 2017-10-12 11:58 AM
whats the age range of "snowflake"?
Snowflakes develop from birth. They are primarily a result of parenting and society. They start out as little snowflakes and continue to evolve throughout life. |
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| Bear - 2017-10-12 12:25 PM
Whiteboy - 2017-10-12 11:58 AM
whats the age range of "snowflake"?
Snowflakes develop from birth. They are primarily a result of parenting and society. They start out as little snowflakes and continue to evolve throughout life.
I was a scout leader for the last 3 years or so. 11 yo kids absolutely love it, by the time they are 14 they start to outgrow it. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Bear - 2017-10-12 12:23 PM
So the solution to these perverts is what? Abolish the Boy Scouts?
If you had your way, Slo Ride, is that your preferred solution?
Do you favor allowing girls to join the Boy Scouts?
BSA can crumble into oblivion as far as I am concerned. I don't see why any parent would let their children be involved with BSA. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | SloRide - 2017-10-12 12:33 PM
Bear - 2017-10-12 12:23 PM
So the solution to these perverts is what? Abolish the Boy Scouts?
If you had your way, Slo Ride, is that your preferred solution?
Do you favor allowing girls to join the Boy Scouts?
BSA can crumble into oblivion as far as I am concerned. I don't see why any parent would let their children be involved with BSA.
OK, then. You want them to be wiped off the face of the earth because of these perverts and criminals in their midst. I get it.
How do you feel about schools where teachers and coaches engage in
the same behavior? |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Bear - 2017-10-12 11:55 AM
If you take a step back, it's not hard to see how the Boy Scouts has declined in numbers, if indeed they have. I don't see snowflakes gravitating to something like the BSA all that much.
I couldn’t even tell you if we have either one of these programs locally. If they exist they haven’t attempted to enroll more kids. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | SloRide - 2017-10-12 12:33 PM Bear - 2017-10-12 12:23 PM So the solution to these perverts is what? Abolish the Boy Scouts? If you had your way, Slo Ride, is that your preferred solution? Do you favor allowing girls to join the Boy Scouts? BSA can crumble into oblivion as far as I am concerned. I don't see why any parent would let their children be involved with BSA.
My oldest son was a Boy Scout and we never ever had a problem with any of the leaders and he loved all the cool things that he got to do with his buddys..This was 25 years ago and my Father in Law a was Eagle Scout and that was a lot of years ago, lol.. I want to see the Boy Scouts of America grow, theres nothing wrong being a BS.. Sloride do you have any children? And why would you feel that way about the BS's? |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | If Sloride feels that way about the BSA, she obvisouly feels that way about all organized groups in the World. Everyone of them, I am sure has had something "sinister" happen to children. From the beginning of time.
If you feel this happens in organizations, Sloride, volunteer in as many as you can, so children everywhere can learn and develope in new areas. Start in your own hometown. Make a difference, not just condem. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| 3canstorun - 2017-10-12 12:59 PM If Sloride feels that way about the BSA, she obvisouly feels that way about all organized groups in the World. Everyone of them, I am sure has had something "sinister" happen to children. From the beginning of time.
If you feel this happens in organizations, Sloride, volunteer in as many as you can, so children everywhere can learn and develope in new areas. Start in your own hometown. Make a difference, not just condem. How about the Catholic Church? Should we do away with Catholicism because of the actions of a few priests and those that protected them? Correct the wrongs and don’t punish those who do benefit from organizations. My nephew was an Eagle Scout, hs experience was nothing but positive and having that on his resume contributed to the many college scholarships he was awarded.
Edited by rodeomom3 2017-10-12 2:06 PM
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3314
Location: Jersey Girl | Bear - 2017-10-12 12:45 AM Why? Why is this important? What was wrong with having Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts? This is political correctness taken to an extreme. Am I missing something? The world has gone nuts, I swear.
I think its the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. Nothing like teaching the kids that they always get what they want..... |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | You can pull a few perverts out of almost any organization or group.
That includes Hollywood, Boy Scouts, farmers, doctors, plumbers, teachers, politicians, coaches, butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers.
But SloRide, in her infinite wisdom seems to prefer a more selective annihilation of groups for which she probably harbors a special kind of hate......like the Boy Scouts......just because. This is an excellent case study. |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| rodeomom3 - 2017-10-12 2:04 PM 3canstorun - 2017-10-12 12:59 PM If Sloride feels that way about the BSA, she obvisouly feels that way about all organized groups in the World. Everyone of them, I am sure has had something "sinister" happen to children. From the beginning of time.
If you feel this happens in organizations, Sloride, volunteer in as many as you can, so children everywhere can learn and develope in new areas. Start in your own hometown. Make a difference, not just condem. How about the Catholic Church? Should we do away with Catholicism because of the actions of a few priests and those that protected them? Correct the wrongs and don’t punish those who do benefit from organizations. My nephew was an Eagle Scout, hs exoetirmce was nothing but positive and having that on his resume contributed to the many college scholarships he was awarded.
The Catholic Church and it's list of historical evils make this BSA thing (and all of its dishonored leaders and actions) look silly and childish. Seriously. |
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 Expert
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Location: The best kept secret in TX | My husband was an Eagle Scout and puts this on every application he ever submits. For anything. Even a home loan.
He made the comment last night that he can no longer do this and it have the same meaning... He is very disappointed...
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Whiteboy - 2017-10-12 11:58 AM whats the age range of "snowflake"?
My husband calls me a greyflake. Does anyone know what age group that is? LOL |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Bear - 2017-10-12 12:25 PM
Whiteboy - 2017-10-12 11:58 AM
whats the age range of "snowflake"?
Snowflakes develop from birth. They are primarily a result of parenting and society. They start out as little snowflakes and continue to evolve throughout life.
Until they grow into a big snowball. . . . . |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| rodeomom3 - 2017-10-12 1:04 PM
3canstorun - 2017-10-12 12:59 PM If Sloride feels that way about the BSA, she obvisouly feels that way about all organized groups in the World. Everyone of them, I am sure has had something "sinister" happen to children. From the beginning of time.
If you feel this happens in organizations, Sloride, volunteer in as many as you can, so children everywhere can learn and develope in new areas. Start in your own hometown. Make a difference, not just condem. How about the Catholic Church? Should we do away with Catholicism because of the actions of a few priests and those that protected them? Correct the wrongs and don’t punish those who do benefit from organizations. My nephew was an Eagle Scout, hs experience was nothing but positive and having that on his resume contributed to the many college scholarships he was awarded.
That funny - I was going to say the EXACT same thing about the Catholic Church! |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Griz - 2017-10-13 5:43 AM rodeomom3 - 2017-10-12 1:04 PM 3canstorun - 2017-10-12 12:59 PM If Sloride feels that way about the BSA, she obvisouly feels that way about all organized groups in the World. Everyone of them, I am sure has had something "sinister" happen to children. From the beginning of time.
If you feel this happens in organizations, Sloride, volunteer in as many as you can, so children everywhere can learn and develope in new areas. Start in your own hometown. Make a difference, not just condem. How about the Catholic Church? Should we do away with Catholicism because of the actions of a few priests and those that protected them? Correct the wrongs and don’t punish those who do benefit from organizations. My nephew was an Eagle Scout, hs experience was nothing but positive and having that on his resume contributed to the many college scholarships he was awarded. That funny - I was going to say the EXACT same thing about the Catholic Church!
Yea, that was a bad example |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Chandler's Mom - 2017-10-13 12:27 AM Bear - 2017-10-12 12:25 PM Whiteboy - 2017-10-12 11:58 AM whats the age range of "snowflake"? Snowflakes develop from birth. They are primarily a result of parenting and society. They start out as little snowflakes and continue to evolve throughout life. Until they grow into a big snowball. . . . .
This conversation made me LOL  |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | IRunOnFaith - 2017-10-13 8:14 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2017-10-13 12:27 AM Bear - 2017-10-12 12:25 PM Whiteboy - 2017-10-12 11:58 AM whats the age range of "snowflake"? Snowflakes develop from birth. They are primarily a result of parenting and society. They start out as little snowflakes and continue to evolve throughout life. Until they grow into a big snowball. . . . .
I know several, and they just are too big to qualify as flakes anymore. Wait, when I put it that way. . . . . |
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| It is real simple ..
Once our liberal courts allowed the LGBTQ to force their way
into the BSA ... it automatically fell apart ...
This is what POLITICAL CORRECTNESS AND DIVERSITY looks like.
TOTAL DESTRUCTION when these are applied to a FREE society!! |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I don't really have a dog in the fight because I know very little about BSA. But with that said I have 2 boys, ages 5 and 9. We are in small town USA, in WY to be exact and we don't send out kids in any group without one of us being present. Too many freaks out there that get passed through the system and are back out there playing touchy/feely with the kids. I will protect my boys as long as I can. I know it can happen anywhere, at school etc...but I will do my absolute best to keep them safe when I can. One problem with living in a small town is the kids grow up way more trusting and open than they would in a big town. It's really hard to get them to take strangers seriously, much less to understand that not all adults are trustworthy. |
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| wyoming barrel racer - 2017-10-14 12:06 PM
I don't really have a dog in the fight because I know very little about BSA. But with that said I have 2 boys, ages 5 and 9. We are in small town USA, in WY to be exact and we don't send out kids in any group without one of us being present. Too many freaks out there that get passed through the system and are back out there playing touchy/feely with the kids. I will protect my boys as long as I can. I know it can happen anywhere, at school etc...but I will do my absolute best to keep them safe when I can. One problem with living in a small town is the kids grow up way more trusting and open than they would in a big town. It's really hard to get them to take strangers seriously, much less to understand that not all adults are trustworthy.
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | BARRELHORSE USA - 2017-10-14 3:04 AM It is real simple .. Once our liberal courts allowed the LGBTQ to force their way into the BSA ... it automatically fell apart ... This is what POLITICAL CORRECTNESS AND DIVERSITY looks like. TOTAL DESTRUCTION when these are applied to a FREE society!!
You know...there are days I wonder if you're crazier than a loon LMFAO....but I actually agree with your statement here.
Since they allowed all that, the US seems to just fall apart daily |
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Sad.....the extinction of the Boy Scouts of America