Ohiobarrelracer - 2017-11-29 8:07 AM I just read about that this morning and i think its complete bull. I date a trucker and also work in the trucking business so i see it from all sides and ELDs are nothing but trouble. its just another way to screw our truckers. Especially for people like me who only haul a couple times a week to jackpots/rodeos, who haul friends and the occasional person going to the same place. So i pull a $45 paycheck at a small jackpot and beacuse i did i now can get fined for not being registered as a "commerical driver."  It blows my mind how little coverage there is about this. 

WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-11-29 1:00 PM  . I wish there was a precise list of the regulations for the elds so people have a better understanding. It's so murky.

1DSoon - 2017-11-29 12:03 PM


 there is

 

3canstorun - 2017-11-29 8:56 AM Well, if you do work in the trucking industry then you should know that it is going to be enforced.  And, there is no way to cheat it if a unit is installed.  



That being said - the line is a thin one between the DOT and people who have horse trailers etc.  There have always been rules about medical cards and CDL's in place.  They have just been lax about enforcing those rules.  As local economies and tax dollars become scarce, they will look to these items to make money from fines.  Pure and simple. 



We might all think it is not a good law, but it is in place.  '



Deal with it as you wish. 





PS - yes I work in the trucking industry and have for over 30 years...................................do I have a CDL?  Yes, since 1979.  Will I get a unit in our  personal truck, no.   

WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-11-29 1:50 PM   where? The dot? It's still pretty gray

3canstorun - 2017-11-29 1:31 PM


 https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/hours-service/elds/electronic-logging-devices

There is also a FAQ page too
 

OhMax - 2017-11-29 3:54 PM I just saw that article shared...daaaaamn is all I can say. I know we’ve been floating in the gray area but dang. So let’s say I do get an ELD installed on my dually truck (not that I want one, I don’t, but for hypotheticals). Often my dually is also my daily driver when my husband has our other truck. If I take off and drive 8 miles to work on a Friday morning at 7am, not hooked to a trailer, does my time start with the ELD? If so you’d have to be at your rodeo before 9pm (likely yes) but you couldn’t drive home until 7am the following morning after your 10 hours? Is that right? If that’s the way it works...we would quite literally have to purchase a third unneeded vehicle so the dually could only move when hooked to a trailer.

JLazyT_perf_horses - 2017-11-29 4:48 PM

I've spoken to a couple people about this and was told that I was fine, but I'm way under the weight limit for a required CDL. I just have a 3/4 ton truck and 3 horse 8' short wall LQ. So even if I do win money somewhere, I don't fall under all 3 rules. One person was from the DMV, one was a cop, and one was a teacher at a truck driving school and they all said the same, so I assume they're correct.

3canstorun - 2017-11-29 3:11 PM


Read the FAQ's. 

If your vehicle was manufactured before 2000, you never have to use one.  If you only use it less then 8 days in a 30 day period you don't.  A lot of variables.  Which is why the whole thing sucks.   

WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-11-29 9:03 PM According to this 90% of barrel racers or horseman that use their rig to show or for their business need an ELD...  Especially if you claim it on your taxes. Thats how it remains murky or gray...

http://www.horsenation.com/2017/11/29/electronic-logging-devices-co...
 How does the DOT know if you claim horses on your taxes? 

OhMax - 2017-11-29 10:47 PM That’ll be a bookmark for a slow day at work, or a vicious case of insomnia. Every time I thought I was going to get an answer it told me to look up another rule...felt like I needed to take notes. But to answer your question, yes the truck is newer than 2000. Most months we drive it more than 8 days. Summer months always more than 8 days towing. Winter months more than 8 days but not as a towing vehicle. The gvwr on the truck alone is 9900, it’s a standard 1 ton and my understand is under 10k doesn’t require anything special. It’s when it’s hooked to the trailer that we go over the 26k GVWR. And my trailer is hardly the largest rig out on the road. At the end of the day we probably won’t do anything unless we start to see folks hauling horse trailers get popped more often, or get popped ourselves, hate to say it.

dashnlotti - 2017-11-30 11:48 AM Maybe I'm just a big dummy, or am over-simplifying it...but the way I read it on the DOT website is basically this. If you haven't been logging in any form prior to now, you should be fine. Aren't they simply going from paper-type methods of logging to completely electronic?? So if you haven'y been required to log in the past, you shouldn't have to start, correct? They're simply changing the method of logging? Or am I way off?

Three 4 Luck - 2017-11-30 11:31 AM
They don't and if they ask you that question you look at them and say no.  I would not suggest saying "none of your business" because then some smart ass new punk is going to use his "powers" and shut you down for sure. 

Here in GA they are bond and determined they are the "law".  To the extreme.  

Flamin10 - 2017-11-30 12:19 PM The way I read it, if you have a LQ trailer it can qualify under "RV" and you are exempt right?

Mighty Broke - 2017-11-30 11:22 AM


It is exempt as long as you do not say you are going to a horse show---say you are going trail riding. 

Mighty Broke - 2017-11-30 10:53 AM


Well---you are right and wrong. Many that have not been doing it by law should have been. 

Ashley Lynn - 2017-11-30 12:00 PM TxDOT got kinda crappy about this a few years ago. They wanted everyone to get a CDL, everyone to keep logs...blah blah blah. Mysteriously everyone I know became “trail riders!” They have no way of knowing or proving where you are going with your horse?!? I agree with the stipulations for COMMERCIAL HAULERS, however it’s not the ACT of hauling/travel that makes our money- it’s simply the means by which we get there. The trucking companies and truckers are commercial drivers, they make their money by the ACT of driving and hauling, not us!! Leave us alone. Edited to clarify- I think horse transport companies should fall under this rule, they get paid to HAUL and TRANSPORT horses. Trainers and barrels racers don’t get paid to haul the horse from point A to point B, they get paid for what they do at the barrel race. I hope this makes sense!

NJJ - 2017-11-30 3:26 PM


Unless they set up at the horse show and follow you out ...... They have been known to do this in several areas.  

Mighty Broke - 2017-11-30 11:22 AM It is exempt as long as you do not say you are going to a horse show---say you are going trail riding. 

jropergirl - 2017-11-30 7:31 PM My rig is way over-weight (I had no idea it mattered until today because I thought I was considered an RV)-- to the tune of about 31k lbs, when the cutoff is now 26001.  What asshat decided that was a suitable number?  Someone with a smaller or newer lighter trailer would make it under the 26k gcvwr, and I won't. The pickup is 14k, the trailer is 17.4k.  



Soooooooo should I have a CDL for that?  According to the law the way it's written I should. But I don't even know how getting a CDL works, when you don't need to deal with airbrakes or a big truck. I drive a 4 door , 4x4 dually. 

Dash4KJ - 2017-11-30 7:53 PM  My dad just sent me this.. "NOT FOR HIRE" IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH - HOW THE ELD MANDATE WILL IMPACT THE HORSE INDUSTRYAs a breeder, owner, trainer or competitor in the horse industry, it is important to understand the implications of the ELD Mandate that will be hitting the transportation industry in December of 2017. The facts are that unless we all speak up you may be required to install an electronic logging device (ELD) in your truck.There are some exemptions in place for farm or agricultural hauling where an ELD would not be required. However, many of the rigs used for hauling horses and the activities horse owners participate in, especially those that frequently travel to horse shows, fall outside the allowed exemptions. What is the ELD Mandate?In 2012, the United States Congress enacted the bill “Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century that was introduced by President Obama. A part of this bill included a provision requiring the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Act (FMCSA) to develop a rule mandating the use of electronic logging devices (ELDs) on commercial vehicles.Do we have to comply since we are hauling horses, not cattle or other livestock?Yes, horses are livestock and are specifically listed in the transportation bill language. It is not just the horse industry that is facing the ELD Mandate. Families that show cattle, pigs and other livestock and travel long distances to show and compete will be impacted as well. It will also impact any other type of activity or hobby that requires a large vehicle and trailer and where there is the potential to win money in competitions. The ELD Mandate requires that your vehicle must be fitted with a device under the following conditions:• Your vehicle is a commercial vehicle (see below)• Your activities fall outside of the exemptions allowed for agriculture and livestock transportation. Most who show horses will fall outside of the exemption requirements. (see below)• You are required to obtain a Commercial Driver’s License due to the weight of your truck and trailer (see below) The “Not For Hire” myth:It is not uncommon to see “Not For Hire” graphics on trucks and horse trailers. The idea behind this is to avoid certain Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) regulations. This is an old fable that does not protect those hauling horses from fines for non-compliance. A “Not For Hire” sign on your rig will not protect you if it is determined that your truck and trailer fit into the commercial category or are being used for commercial purposes. Nor will it protect you if you are driving a vehicle and trailer that requires a commercial license.A recreational vehicle exemption does not always apply:Living quarters horse trailers can be classified as recreational vehicles for private use. This classification exempts both the truck and trailer from being considered commercial as well as the requirements for the driver to obtain a commercial driver’s license. However, if an officer or inspector determines that the truck and trailer is being used in “furtherance of a commercial enterprise”, then the driver and vehicle are out of compliance with FMCSA regulations which can result in fines and being detained for an extended period. For example, we have been made aware of situations where the owners of truck and trailers stopped by the Highway Patrol or other inspectors, were required to both obtain a Department of Transportation (DOT) number for their vehicle, and find a driver with a commercial driver’s license in order to resume their trip. In these cases, once the ELD Mandate is in effect, the drivers could also have been required to purchase and install an ELD unit. (see below for clarification about the meaning of “furtherance of a commercial enterprise”)What does an ELD do?The ELD or electronic logging device synchronizes with the engine of a vehicle and keeps track of hours of service. It logs driving time, vehicle speed, routes, and keeps track of mandated rest periods as well as other data points. Once the vehicle is in motion and reaches 5 miles per hour, the ELD keeps track of time for the next 14 hours – nonstop. Under the standard ELD regulations, there are no provisions to account for traffic, fueling, or loading and unloading. In those 14 hours, drivers are only allowed to drive for 11 hours. Because of this, drivers are forced to drive as much as they can during the 14 hours once the clock on the ELD starts. Ten-hour rest period:When the 14-hour limit has been reached, the ELD indicates to the driver that they must stop and “rest” for 10 consecutive hours. The ELD keeps track of any “infractions” – that is, going over the 14 hours as well as vehicle speed – and has reporting functions so inspectors can review the logs and fine drivers for infractions from days past. This means that those hauling horses will be required to stop their trip once the 14-hour threshold is reached and cannot resume travel until the 10-hour rest period has passed. If the threshold is breached, the ELD makes a record that can be reviewed by authorities and you can be fined. Have you noticed in the last several years all of the trucks that are parked along the side of the road? Have you noticed that on and off ramps and picnic and rest areas are sometimes filled up with trucks? Those typically are drivers that have reached their limit and have to immediately find a place to park their trucks to avoid costly violations. If you are required to install an ELD for your truck and horse trailer, this could easily happen to you too. Mandated breaks:According to the Hours of Service outlined in the Federal Motor Carriers Safety Administration rules, rest breaks are mandatory in addition to the ten-hour rest period. Commercial drivers are required to take a 30-minute break within the 11 hour driving period and cannot go past 8 hours without taking a break. This mandatory break is calculated from when the vehicle starts moving and is tracked by the ELD. It does not take into account any other stops or breaks that may have occurred within the 8-hour time period. The break must be 30 consecutive minutes. A driver cannot substitute the 30-minute break with a 10-minute break and later a 20-minute break. There is no getting around this as the ELD records and stores the 30 consecutive minute break periods and will subject the driver to penalty for a rule violation upon inspection. Additionally, the 30-minute break is included in the 14-hour time limit. What constitutes a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) classification?• Are you writing off your truck or trailer as a business loss or expense on your tax returns? Tax write offs for your truck and trailer would make them fall under the commercial classification.• Are your truck and/or trailer being used for your business? If your truck or trailer is being used for your business, they fall under the commercial classification. If you are a trainer, your truck and trailer is used for business, there’s no doubt about it. If you are a non-pro or amateur competitor, your truck and trailer can be considered as used for business (see “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” explanation below). If you are a non-pro or amateur and breed horses and sell them, your truck and trailer are considered as used for business. • Do you only haul your own horses? If not and if you collect payment, (for example splitting fuel costs) to haul a friend or client’s horse to a show, to the trainer, to the vet, or to the breeder, your truck and trailer are considered commercial vehicles. • Have you won money competing with your horse or a client’s horse? Even though most often competing with horses is not profitable for a non-pro when calculating all the costs, the FMCSA could consider money won at a horse show or event, a profit. They can also consider hauling to an event with the intent or hopes of winning some money, as pursuing a profit. This definition of “profit” then classifies your truck and trailer as commercial. • Do you have sponsors? Do you have their stickers on your truck or trailer? Just about everyone knows a roper, rodeo or horse show contestant who has a “day job” (horseshoer as an example) that spends part of their time traveling to events to compete. In many cases, especially with rodeo events, (some associations have strict rules about sponsorships and others do not) they also have sponsors, whether its ropes, saddle pads, clothing or other equipment. Those sponsorships qualify as “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” and then puts them in the commercial category. • If your vehicle has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of more than 10,000 pounds and is used for your business or with the intent to make a profit (see “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” below”), or involved in interstate commerce, like going to horse shows out of your home state, it then falls into the commercial vehicle classification by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA). What “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” means:The FMCSA rule has some language that is far reaching with significant ramifications for horse enthusiasts. The category “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” is one of the qualifications considered when determining whether a driver and their truck and trailer fall under the commercial classification and apply to the scenarios we have listed above. Here’s the information as outlined on the FMCSA website’s Q&A section:“ Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.”Do I need a Commercial Driver’s License?Your truck and trailer can be considered a commercial vehicle without the requirement that you obtain a Commercial Driver’s License (CDL). However, you will need to obtain a CDL if your vehicle fits the following categories: • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds. For example, if your dually has a GVWR of 10,000 pounds and your horse trailer has a GVWR more than 16,000 pounds, a commercial license is required. • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds. What is the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)?• The GVWR is the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a single vehicle or combination of vehicles, or the registered gross weight.What is the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating)? • The GCWR is the value specified by the manufacturer as the GVWR of the power unit plus the GVWR of the towed unit or units, or the combined registered weight of the power unit plus the towed unit(s). The GCWR includes the passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle, plus the weight of the trailer and cargo in the trailer. What are the ongoing requirements for a Commercial Driver’s License?After passing the written and driving examination for a commercial license, including other steps such as a special medical examination, drug testing, and vehicle inspections, there are ongoing requirements for driving a vehicle that fall under the commercial classification. Each state has their own set of regulations in addition to the federal code so it is important to understand the laws in your state in regards to a commercial license. Do I need to have a Department of Transportation (DOT) number?Your vehicle may require a USDOT (Federal) number if your vehicle and travel meet the following conditions:• Your truck and trailer are considered commercial vehicles. This applies if you use your truck and trailer for business or for “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” (see above).• The GVWR is over 10,000 pounds• AND if you travel into other statesDepending on the state in which you live, you may also be required to obtain a State DOT if your truck and trailer are considered commercial vehicles. HOS or Hours of Service:Most drivers of commercial vehicles must comply with Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) Hours of Service. Hours of Service require that drivers can only be on the road for 11 hours of a 14 hour shift. However, with the ELD, and the fact that the machines start recording time from the moment wheels move past 5 miles per hour, drivers are not able to make allowances for traffic, loading and unloading, and taking a longer rest, or breaking up rest time. There are some exceptions to compliance with Hours of Service. They are listed below.ROD or Record of Duty:The Record of Duty (ROD) is a log book that every driver of a commercial vehicle must maintain and keep on file for 6 months. The following information must be logged into the ROD:• The status for each 24-hour period• Time must be recorded in duplicate• Time for Off Duty• Driving Time• Time spent sleeping• Time on duty but not driving• Each change in duty status that is recorded on the log must also include the name of the city/town/village and state.• Other supporting documentation must also be maintained to coincide with the ROD (log book) these include toll receipts, fuel receipts, and other documentation. If you have a commercial vehicle and your activities fall outside of the exemptions for farming and agriculture, you will be required to install an ELDIf you have a Commercial Driver’s License and therefore are required to follow the Hours of Service and keep a Record of Duty, you will be required to install an ELD Are there situations where we are not required to follow the Hours of Service (HOS) or install an ELD?Agricultural Use: Drivers transporting ‘agricultural commodities,’ including livestock, are exempt from the Hours of Service regulations while operating within 150 air-miles of the source of such commodities. Vehicles and drivers are exempt if they are not:• Hauling farther away than 150 miles and not more than 8 days in a 30 day period. To put this in perspective, if you travel to a horse show, and are driving more than 150 miles to reach the show grounds, your trip there and back counts as driving days. If you stay in a hotel instead of on the showgrounds, any driving to the show grounds counts as days. In this light, it is pretty easy to consume the 8 days in a 30 day period if you attend more than one horse show during that time, or go to horse shows that last an extended period of time. If you are traveling to horse shows frequently, and drive a dually with a 4+ horse trailer, you are more than likely to fall into the classification where an ELD is required on your vehicle. • Drivers of vehicles manufactured before 2000 are not required to implement an ELD.• Drivers will be required to use an ELD if they use a paper log more than 8 times in a rolling 30 day period. (Exceed 12 hours or more than 100 air miles from terminal). Once a driver has exceeded that threshold, they’ll have to drive an ELD equipped truck until their 30 day record drops to 8 or less paper log events. Short Haul: Short haul vehicles are exempt from the ELD Mandate. There are a few key components required to meet the FMCSA definition for short haul. You must:• Start and return to same location within 12 hours of duty time• Drive no more than 11 hours• Have ten consecutive hours off between shifts• Maintain your time clock function. Meaning, employees who are on the clock, punching in and out for work. • Not exceed a 100-mile radius from your starting locationWhat can we do about this government overreach?Representatives from Protect The Harvest as well as Lucas Oil have been working hard to bring these issues to light. In addition to sharing information, we have made trips to Washington DC to meet with lawmakers. There are other groups that have also been sounding the alarm about the ELD Mandate. We need to do more and we need your help. If you have concerns about how the ELD Mandate and other regulations will impact your business or enjoying horses as a hobby, the time is now to act. Make sure to let others know about what is coming up. Share information and encourage others to do so as well. Get your local clubs and groups involved too. Most importantly, contact your Congressional Representative and let them know your concerns. They have heard from group representatives, now they need to hear from individuals, as many as possible. If we don’t act now, soon many of us including those that simply enjoy showing animals, or other hobbies that require a truck and trailer, will be required to install electronic logging devices on our vehicles.

Ashley Lynn - 2017-12-01 10:50 AM

Call me an asshat, BUT what about people pulling RVs going to stay at a casino?!? They are going hoping for the same profit taking the same gamble we are?!? Just a thought.

jropergirl - 2017-12-01 10:13 AM  Just thought I'd throw this out here too:  http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml. 

Three 4 Luck - 2017-12-01 12:13 PM So are you subject only to the laws of the state in which you're licensed even when traveling across state lines? 

fulltiltfilly - 2017-12-01 12:01 PM I have read thru the ELD Mandate.....



If I understood it correctly if you haul with someone to split costs, you are considered commercial. If you travel out of state to a show, you are considered commercial.  



I try and go a few times a year to a weekend race in PA, 170 miles away and my friend and I go together to split expenses. So just based on that, I would be required to get one installed in my personal truck. My dually GVW is 8600. Not sure how much with the trailer on....8ft short wall 3 horse. Guess I need to find that out.



Who do we complain to have this changed???

 

linds - 2017-12-01 1:44 PM AND, say I leave at 6am to get somewhere for exhibitions (2hr drive), and the race ends later than 3pm - I have to wait until 5am the next morning to drive home? 

Mighty Broke - 2017-12-01 1:56 PM Trying to enforce trucks and horse trailers will get awfully sticky. They are saying a person needs a Class A CDL but that qualifies you to drive a semi truck and trailer. A guy right down the street from me got pulled over in his outfit for not having a CDL and got a ticket. He went and did the written part and got his permit and went to take the driving test. He went with his truck and trailer that he got the ticket with---they threw a fit saying he couldn't take the test in it, that it had to be a semi. He said, well---this is what I got the ticket in !!!!!!!!!! His ticket ended up getting thrown out. 

fulltiltfilly - 2017-12-01 1:19 PM


I just don't know....based on what I read the clock starts ticking as soon as the vehicle moves over 5 mph. Any delays all count in the time.

Guess it would be the same if I go to that weekend race...? I leave at 11 am Friday but don't get back on the road til 2 pm Sunday. Its a 3 hour drive one way.

linds - 2017-12-01 2:39 PM In the scenario you described, you would be okay. BUT, better not unhook and go into town Saturday night for dinner (like I often do). If I go to dinner Saturday night at 8pm, my drive time lasts until 7am Sunday morning. Break time doesn't end until 5pm Sunday evening. I hope I'm confused here? Can the rest time (10hours) start any earlier than 11hrs from the time you start driving?

Mighty Broke - 2017-12-01 1:54 PM


Yes---it would go from when you went Off Duty. 

OhMax - 2017-12-01 3:19 PM But what is considered off duty? If I drive the dually to work without a trailer at 8am, go to lunch at noon, drive home and hook it to a trailer at 4pm to drive 2.5 hours to a rodeo...did my 14 hrs of drive time start at 8am or 4pm when I hooked onto the trailer and my 9900gvwr truck became a commercial vechicle?

Mighty Broke - 2017-12-01 12:32 PM Your point is exactly why this will be practically unenforcable---but I am guessing it would be when you hooked to the trailer. Our ELD's have a personal coneyance mode on them---this is used when the truck is being test driven after a repair or when a driver takes it home to clean it on a weekend and such. I am thinking this is what would be used when you are using it as a personal vehicle. 

3canstorun - 2017-12-01 11:35 AM


NO - it is federal law. 

And then states can add on what they want. 

 

euchee - 2017-12-01 6:44 PM What about tag team drivers?  If going on a long drive we sometimes change drivers, how do the devices know of the change?

 

CYA Ranch - 2017-12-01 8:32 PM

I personally think they have bigger fish to fry than horse people when it comes to the logs.  The more people freak out and contact agencies asking tons of questions - the more the DOT is going to think they need to start checking into us.  My husband is a commercial driver and has the ELS installed in his semi.  He also said less is more when drawing attention to the horse people

Lucylouwon - 2017-12-02 7:20 AM You have to go into the device and log driver 1 as not driving (sleeper birth) and driver 2 as on duty driving.

?I refuse to have ELD's so I've gone to pre-ELD trucks.  I can't afford another monthly payment for a tattle tale. 

Dash4KJ - 2017-12-01 6:53 PM

 My dad just sent me this.. "NOT FOR HIRE" IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH - HOW THE ELD MANDATE WILL IMPACT THE HORSE INDUSTRYAs a breeder, owner, trainer or competitor in the horse industry, it is important to understand the implications of the ELD Mandate that will be hitting the transportation industry in December of 2017. The facts are that unless we all speak up you may be required to install an electronic logging device (ELD) in your truck.There are some exemptions in place for farm or agricultural hauling where an ELD would not be required. However, many of the rigs used for hauling horses and the activities horse owners participate in, especially those that frequently travel to horse shows, fall outside the allowed exemptions. What is the ELD Mandate?In 2012, the United States Congress enacted the bill “Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century that was introduced by President Obama. A part of this bill included a provision requiring the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Act (FMCSA) to develop a rule mandating the use of electronic logging devices (ELDs) on commercial vehicles.Do we have to comply since we are hauling horses, not cattle or other livestock?Yes, horses are livestock and are specifically listed in the transportation bill language. It is not just the horse industry that is facing the ELD Mandate. Families that show cattle, pigs and other livestock and travel long distances to show and compete will be impacted as well. It will also impact any other type of activity or hobby that requires a large vehicle and trailer and where there is the potential to win money in competitions. The ELD Mandate requires that your vehicle must be fitted with a device under the following conditions:• Your vehicle is a commercial vehicle (see below)• Your activities fall outside of the exemptions allowed for agriculture and livestock transportation. Most who show horses will fall outside of the exemption requirements. (see below)• You are required to obtain a Commercial Driver’s License due to the weight of your truck and trailer (see below) The “Not For Hire” myth:It is not uncommon to see “Not For Hire” graphics on trucks and horse trailers. The idea behind this is to avoid certain Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) regulations. This is an old fable that does not protect those hauling horses from fines for non-compliance. A “Not For Hire” sign on your rig will not protect you if it is determined that your truck and trailer fit into the commercial category or are being used for commercial purposes. Nor will it protect you if you are driving a vehicle and trailer that requires a commercial license.A recreational vehicle exemption does not always apply:Living quarters horse trailers can be classified as recreational vehicles for private use. This classification exempts both the truck and trailer from being considered commercial as well as the requirements for the driver to obtain a commercial driver’s license. However, if an officer or inspector determines that the truck and trailer is being used in “furtherance of a commercial enterprise”, then the driver and vehicle are out of compliance with FMCSA regulations which can result in fines and being detained for an extended period. For example, we have been made aware of situations where the owners of truck and trailers stopped by the Highway Patrol or other inspectors, were required to both obtain a Department of Transportation (DOT) number for their vehicle, and find a driver with a commercial driver’s license in order to resume their trip. In these cases, once the ELD Mandate is in effect, the drivers could also have been required to purchase and install an ELD unit. (see below for clarification about the meaning of “furtherance of a commercial enterprise”)What does an ELD do?The ELD or electronic logging device synchronizes with the engine of a vehicle and keeps track of hours of service. It logs driving time, vehicle speed, routes, and keeps track of mandated rest periods as well as other data points. Once the vehicle is in motion and reaches 5 miles per hour, the ELD keeps track of time for the next 14 hours – nonstop. Under the standard ELD regulations, there are no provisions to account for traffic, fueling, or loading and unloading. In those 14 hours, drivers are only allowed to drive for 11 hours. Because of this, drivers are forced to drive as much as they can during the 14 hours once the clock on the ELD starts. Ten-hour rest period:When the 14-hour limit has been reached, the ELD indicates to the driver that they must stop and “rest” for 10 consecutive hours. The ELD keeps track of any “infractions” – that is, going over the 14 hours as well as vehicle speed – and has reporting functions so inspectors can review the logs and fine drivers for infractions from days past. This means that those hauling horses will be required to stop their trip once the 14-hour threshold is reached and cannot resume travel until the 10-hour rest period has passed. If the threshold is breached, the ELD makes a record that can be reviewed by authorities and you can be fined. Have you noticed in the last several years all of the trucks that are parked along the side of the road? Have you noticed that on and off ramps and picnic and rest areas are sometimes filled up with trucks? Those typically are drivers that have reached their limit and have to immediately find a place to park their trucks to avoid costly violations. If you are required to install an ELD for your truck and horse trailer, this could easily happen to you too. Mandated breaks:According to the Hours of Service outlined in the Federal Motor Carriers Safety Administration rules, rest breaks are mandatory in addition to the ten-hour rest period. Commercial drivers are required to take a 30-minute break within the 11 hour driving period and cannot go past 8 hours without taking a break. This mandatory break is calculated from when the vehicle starts moving and is tracked by the ELD. It does not take into account any other stops or breaks that may have occurred within the 8-hour time period. The break must be 30 consecutive minutes. A driver cannot substitute the 30-minute break with a 10-minute break and later a 20-minute break. There is no getting around this as the ELD records and stores the 30 consecutive minute break periods and will subject the driver to penalty for a rule violation upon inspection. Additionally, the 30-minute break is included in the 14-hour time limit. What constitutes a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) classification?• Are you writing off your truck or trailer as a business loss or expense on your tax returns? Tax write offs for your truck and trailer would make them fall under the commercial classification.• Are your truck and/or trailer being used for your business? If your truck or trailer is being used for your business, they fall under the commercial classification. If you are a trainer, your truck and trailer is used for business, there’s no doubt about it. If you are a non-pro or amateur competitor, your truck and trailer can be considered as used for business (see “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” explanation below). If you are a non-pro or amateur and breed horses and sell them, your truck and trailer are considered as used for business. • Do you only haul your own horses? If not and if you collect payment, (for example splitting fuel costs) to haul a friend or client’s horse to a show, to the trainer, to the vet, or to the breeder, your truck and trailer are considered commercial vehicles. • Have you won money competing with your horse or a client’s horse? Even though most often competing with horses is not profitable for a non-pro when calculating all the costs, the FMCSA could consider money won at a horse show or event, a profit. They can also consider hauling to an event with the intent or hopes of winning some money, as pursuing a profit. This definition of “profit” then classifies your truck and trailer as commercial. • Do you have sponsors? Do you have their stickers on your truck or trailer? Just about everyone knows a roper, rodeo or horse show contestant who has a “day job” (horseshoer as an example) that spends part of their time traveling to events to compete. In many cases, especially with rodeo events, (some associations have strict rules about sponsorships and others do not) they also have sponsors, whether its ropes, saddle pads, clothing or other equipment. Those sponsorships qualify as “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” and then puts them in the commercial category. • If your vehicle has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of more than 10,000 pounds and is used for your business or with the intent to make a profit (see “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” below”), or involved in interstate commerce, like going to horse shows out of your home state, it then falls into the commercial vehicle classification by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA). What “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” means:The FMCSA rule has some language that is far reaching with significant ramifications for horse enthusiasts. The category “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” is one of the qualifications considered when determining whether a driver and their truck and trailer fall under the commercial classification and apply to the scenarios we have listed above. Here’s the information as outlined on the FMCSA website’s Q&A section:“ Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.”Do I need a Commercial Driver’s License?Your truck and trailer can be considered a commercial vehicle without the requirement that you obtain a Commercial Driver’s License (CDL). However, you will need to obtain a CDL if your vehicle fits the following categories: • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds. For example, if your dually has a GVWR of 10,000 pounds and your horse trailer has a GVWR more than 16,000 pounds, a commercial license is required. • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds. What is the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)?• The GVWR is the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a single vehicle or combination of vehicles, or the registered gross weight.What is the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating)? • The GCWR is the value specified by the manufacturer as the GVWR of the power unit plus the GVWR of the towed unit or units, or the combined registered weight of the power unit plus the towed unit(s). The GCWR includes the passengers and cargo in the tow vehicle, plus the weight of the trailer and cargo in the trailer. What are the ongoing requirements for a Commercial Driver’s License?After passing the written and driving examination for a commercial license, including other steps such as a special medical examination, drug testing, and vehicle inspections, there are ongoing requirements for driving a vehicle that fall under the commercial classification. Each state has their own set of regulations in addition to the federal code so it is important to understand the laws in your state in regards to a commercial license. Do I need to have a Department of Transportation (DOT) number?Your vehicle may require a USDOT (Federal) number if your vehicle and travel meet the following conditions:• Your truck and trailer are considered commercial vehicles. This applies if you use your truck and trailer for business or for “furtherance of a commercial enterprise” (see above).• The GVWR is over 10,000 pounds• AND if you travel into other statesDepending on the state in which you live, you may also be required to obtain a State DOT if your truck and trailer are considered commercial vehicles. HOS or Hours of Service:Most drivers of commercial vehicles must comply with Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) Hours of Service. Hours of Service require that drivers can only be on the road for 11 hours of a 14 hour shift. However, with the ELD, and the fact that the machines start recording time from the moment wheels move past 5 miles per hour, drivers are not able to make allowances for traffic, loading and unloading, and taking a longer rest, or breaking up rest time. There are some exceptions to compliance with Hours of Service. They are listed below.ROD or Record of Duty:The Record of Duty (ROD) is a log book that every driver of a commercial vehicle must maintain and keep on file for 6 months. The following information must be logged into the ROD:• The status for each 24-hour period• Time must be recorded in duplicate• Time for Off Duty• Driving Time• Time spent sleeping• Time on duty but not driving• Each change in duty status that is recorded on the log must also include the name of the city/town/village and state.• Other supporting documentation must also be maintained to coincide with the ROD (log book) these include toll receipts, fuel receipts, and other documentation. If you have a commercial vehicle and your activities fall outside of the exemptions for farming and agriculture, you will be required to install an ELDIf you have a Commercial Driver’s License and therefore are required to follow the Hours of Service and keep a Record of Duty, you will be required to install an ELD Are there situations where we are not required to follow the Hours of Service (HOS) or install an ELD?Agricultural Use: Drivers transporting ‘agricultural commodities,’ including livestock, are exempt from the Hours of Service regulations while operating within 150 air-miles of the source of such commodities. Vehicles and drivers are exempt if they are not:• Hauling farther away than 150 miles and not more than 8 days in a 30 day period. To put this in perspective, if you travel to a horse show, and are driving more than 150 miles to reach the show grounds, your trip there and back counts as driving days. If you stay in a hotel instead of on the showgrounds, any driving to the show grounds counts as days. In this light, it is pretty easy to consume the 8 days in a 30 day period if you attend more than one horse show during that time, or go to horse shows that last an extended period of time. If you are traveling to horse shows frequently, and drive a dually with a 4+ horse trailer, you are more than likely to fall into the classification where an ELD is required on your vehicle. • Drivers of vehicles manufactured before 2000 are not required to implement an ELD.• Drivers will be required to use an ELD if they use a paper log more than 8 times in a rolling 30 day period. (Exceed 12 hours or more than 100 air miles from terminal). Once a driver has exceeded that threshold, they’ll have to drive an ELD equipped truck until their 30 day record drops to 8 or less paper log events. Short Haul: Short haul vehicles are exempt from the ELD Mandate. There are a few key components required to meet the FMCSA definition for short haul. You must:• Start and return to same location within 12 hours of duty time• Drive no more than 11 hours• Have ten consecutive hours off between shifts• Maintain your time clock function. Meaning, employees who are on the clock, punching in and out for work. • Not exceed a 100-mile radius from your starting locationWhat can we do about this government overreach?Representatives from Protect The Harvest as well as Lucas Oil have been working hard to bring these issues to light. In addition to sharing information, we have made trips to Washington DC to meet with lawmakers. There are other groups that have also been sounding the alarm about the ELD Mandate. We need to do more and we need your help. If you have concerns about how the ELD Mandate and other regulations will impact your business or enjoying horses as a hobby, the time is now to act. Make sure to let others know about what is coming up. Share information and encourage others to do so as well. Get your local clubs and groups involved too. Most importantly, contact your Congressional Representative and let them know your concerns. They have heard from group representatives, now they need to hear from individuals, as many as possible. If we don’t act now, soon many of us including those that simply enjoy showing animals, or other hobbies that require a truck and trailer, will be required to install electronic logging devices on our vehicles.

jettster - 2017-12-04 10:12 PM


This morning after reading about this..
I contacted our local state representative in the southwest corner of New Mexico. I talked to Rebecca Dow about this she gave me a direct phone number to talk to Congressman Steve Pearce in Washington DC and to ask for Josh one of his aides.
I did so and amazingly enough I talked to Josh. He then told me I would like to do more research on this mandate. I got a call within 5 minutes from Ben Johnson another aide to Congressman Steve Pearce and he assured me that they are aware of this ELD mandate and they are going to try to delay implementation that was to start December 18th on the smaller private trucks and trailers that weigh 26.000 pounds GVWR... I was reassured that because of the nature of this mandate ....which was implemented in 2012 ...will be " studied "...thus the one year delay..
Mr.Johnson was very cordial and I stressed it will impact the smaller operators......Farmers... ranchers... horse people... show steers .....Etc.

WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-12-04 11:54 PM   Do you mean 26,000 and under or 26,001 and up? I still don't understand. If your vehicle is 26,000 lbs and under you do not need a CDL.... So then you shouldn't need an EDL...

WetSaddleBlankets - 2017-12-04 11:54 PM   Do you mean 26,000 and under or 26,001 and up? I still don't understand. If your vehicle is 26,000 lbs and under you do not need a CDL.... So then you shouldn't need an EDL...

3canstorun - 2017-12-05 12:23 PM You have never needed a CDL for 26001 lbs and under.  However, if you weigh more then 10,001 lbs you must have a medical card.  And, you also should have a drivers file at home.  After 26001 lbs, you must have a CDL and medical card.  A drivers file, random drug tests, and files on when repairs are done by your certified DOT mechanic.  The log book comes into play if you are over 150 miles from your home base. 



That being said - I doubt most people do what is legally required by law. 







 

CrossDRanch - 2017-12-05 1:31 PM

Many, many truck/trailer combos fall over 26K.... My 1 ton has a 14K gvwr. It does not take much of a trailer to be 13K gvwr and put you over 26K

OhMax - 2017-12-05 5:14 PM This. It is not what you actually weigh over a scale - it is the sticker weight for gvwr. My dually’s sticker gvwr weight is 9900lb. My trailers sticker gvwr weight is 16,900 - putting my total weight just over the 26k limit. My trailer is a 3h with a 9’ shortwall, no slide - faaaar from the biggest rig on the road. At minimum know your sticker #’s so you know if you can make an argument on weight or just shut up and take it in the event you get pulled over.

JLazyT_perf_horses - 2017-12-15 11:57 AM

I spoke to someone at the USDOT the other day, told her I go to jackpots where money was involved and stated the weight of my rig empty and she said there was no requirement for me to need a CDL or be considered commercial under the USDOT, and also not in IL for where I'm from. She said check any other states we travel to, as other states may have different requirements. It was about a 2 hour process discussing things with her. For some it does take a decent size rig to get near the 26,000lbs. I have a 3/4 ton and a 3horse 8' LQ trailer and I squeak by right at 15,000lbs. Add 3 horses and that's still not going to put me over. Also, she confirmed that this mandate going around is nothing new in pertaining to who it refers to. The requirements for commercial and the whole "are we for hire" horse show thing has been in place for years and hasn't changed. She said the only thing this mandate changes is the switch of logging system. Those of you who have been 26,001lbs or more are supposed the have had a CDL for years now, even if just going trail riding. With this whole thing has come a lot of gray areas yes, and it seems different officials all seem to have opinions about it. I made sure to get it in writing that I don't need one. She also said that after a few months most people won't even check for this anymore, the hype will die down. It's probably going to end up being one of those, we'll assume you have it so we won't check thing, like coggins and health papers. Been barrel racing for 15 years and I still have yet to be asked to show either one of those at a race or while hauling anywhere, except for one county fair I went to years ago. I've crossed multiple state lines on a trip and wasn't even asked. So I imagine it will all end up being like that

BobbieL - 2017-12-17 7:37 PM

 I spoke to a DOT friend here in East Texas. Basically if I stay within 150 air miles from my home I am fine. But if I cross state lines hauling to a barrel race or rodeo then I’m required to have a CDL and log system. He said I can try saying I’m going to a vet ect but he has know DOT officers that will follow or call said vet to verify appointment. He said its better to learn as much as you can and the lingo and say based on what you read you thought you were doing everything right and usually they will offer assistance and not ticket you. He also said to load my horses and get a weight scale ticket on my rig. Keep it in my truck. I can always say I went and had my rig weighed and i was under 26,000 and thought I was ok. The more educated we are the better our chances of not getting a fine. And of course as always it all depends on who pulls you over. 

BobbieL - 2017-12-17 7:37 PM

 I spoke to a DOT friend here in East Texas. Basically if I stay within 150 air miles from my home I am fine. But if I cross state lines hauling to a barrel race or rodeo then I’m required to have a CDL and log system. He said I can try saying I’m going to a vet ect but he has know DOT officers that will follow or call said vet to verify appointment. He said its better to learn as much as you can and the lingo and say based on what you read you thought you were doing everything right and usually they will offer assistance and not ticket you. He also said to load my horses and get a weight scale ticket on my rig. Keep it in my truck. I can always say I went and had my rig weighed and i was under 26,000 and thought I was ok. The more educated we are the better our chances of not getting a fine. And of course as always it all depends on who pulls you over. 

jropergirl - 2017-12-28 2:43 PM

 The whole 26001 combined Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)  is such a random thing. I honestly don't think that any of this is intended to rope us in -- but we are an "unintended" consequence of the law. Basically your horses are your hobby. You don't raise them, train them or sell them if they ask you. The answer is, I am going to a rodeo. I go to a few every year. No, I don't write my horses off, and no, I don't claim my winnings as income.  

Also, you're exempt from CDL requirements in most states if your LQ trailer is registered as an RV.  Not sure how to go about doing that, but that's a good place to start. It's not really any different than a toy hauler -- your toys just have four legs instead of four wheels -- that's from a state dot guy in SD. 

foundation horse - 2017-12-28 5:38 PM


You might want to review the Federal Regulations in regards to the 26001 weight rating(s). As well as the rest of the regulations you are referring to. I am quite confident that You are at minimum incorrect. And I am also quite confident You have never dealt with a revenue hungry or safety conscious Law Enforcement or DOT Official who is having a bad day....................

jropergirl - 2017-12-29 3:15 PM


I’m researching for an article on this very thing. So please don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. I’ve talked to countless dot guys. The federal Regs are what they are, but it’s true about the trailers being registered as Rvs. And from the dot guys I’ve talked to, they’re not generally interested in the local barrel racer. If your rig is over 26001 you are required by federal law to have the cdl — but until now, Ag has had so many exemptions that it hasn’t really been enforced.

LEO have no idea how many days we’ve hauled that month. They aren’t expecting us to keep a copy of our tax returns with us so they have no idea If we are claiming winnings or writing off our horses. It comes down to what they can prove when they have you on the side of the road. And frankly, they pull over he wrong person and there’s going to be a case make the Supreme Court About the constitutionality of all this current bull**** going on. Again I say, I do not drive for a living. I am not and should not be considered a commercial driver. I am not guaranteed a check when I get where I’m gojng. I’m not guaranteed to sell a horse based on my travels either. I think this is a good time to have a discussion about what truly constitutes a commercial enterprise and whose business it is if I’m in business. I feel like all of this is an invasion of privacy.

jropergirl - 2018-01-02 10:17 AM I think we have a breakdown in communication I simply said that the 26001k rule is an arbitrary number. 



I also stated that the DOT doesn't expect you to carry your tax returns around. They can't prove that we've been on the road more than 8 days out of the month, unless they ask for health certs and we've got 10 rodeos on one health cert -- and even then depending on where they're located, they could still all fit w/in that exemption. They can only prove what they can prove with questions on the side of the road. Several state DOT guys have said that these regs are roping in people they're not intendd to catch. 



RVs are EXEMPT, and a horse trailer that has LQ is exempt -- it'd be just like a toy hauler -- and that's from the SD DOT. There is actually a website that shares which states exempt them.  You're also exempt up to 150 air miles from home. 

3canstorun - 2018-01-02 12:09 PM But you are wrong again.  The 26,001 isn't an arbitary number.  It is the law.  Federal law.  Has been for a very long time.  Probably as long as you are old. 



 

SC Wrangler - 2018-01-02 2:25 PM There is a HUGE difference in how the DOT rules/laws are enforced state to state.  Many states have very lenient rules when it comes to exempting RV's from the mandates. Ain't no way all the old geezers (blind, crippled and dangerous in a compact car) driving or pulling big RVs have CDLs, and log systems.   I would suggest that individuals take a look at the state rules as they pertain to RV's, see how they apply to your rig and situation, and make decisions accordingly.

spitzh - 2018-01-02 5:04 PM For the non professional rodeo ppl, couldnt you just tell them that you are headed to the trainers or a friends house? Ive traveled across states lines for both. How would they know what you are up to? Please dont flame me, its just a question. I live in Reno, Cali has some nice races to go to.

kwanatha - 2017-12-29 3:57 PM I guess grandma needs her cdl for when she drives to bingo or thr casino . She just might win money

jropergirl - 2018-01-02 7:02 PM  Yes, that is what I meant  re: that 26,001, is a number someone pulled out of their A$$. That is my point. It has zero meaning and captures people it has no business capturing. Even the websites that want to inform commercial drivers about the mandate, have no idea it will force most rodeo competitors into "submission". 



I realize (now) it's been a law since 1986, but that doesn't mean it has any rhyme or reason as to the thought process behind the seemly random CGVWR that forces someone who drives a dually and pulls a 4h with LQ to get a CDL. Most of what the federal governement does has no rhyme or reason, imo. Hehe.  And if it's been around for so long, why wasn't this an issue when I was college rodeoing, pulling a big rig? Why am I just now hearing about this at 40 years old? That's the issue I have -- how has the horse industry as a whole had zero clues that this was even a thing that affected them? 

3canstorun - 2018-01-03 7:50 AM


You are just now hearing about it because it is an easy target and the governments needs money.  Pure and simple. 

If a local government knows about these laws, they can pull you over and get the fine money.   You pay the fine, or the license is suspended. 

SC Wrangler - 2018-01-02 1:25 PM There is a HUGE difference in how the DOT rules/laws are enforced state to state.  Many states have very lenient rules when it comes to exempting RV's from the mandates. Ain't no way all the old geezers (blind, crippled and dangerous in a compact car) driving or pulling big RVs have CDLs, and log systems.   I would suggest that individuals take a look at the state rules as they pertain to RV's, see how they apply to your rig and situation, and make decisions accordingly.

foundation horse - 2018-01-03 12:17 PM Enforcement of these so called "obscure" regulations is just the doctor ordered for cash strapped municipalities. Those of Us on this Board who have experience with Trucks, Trucking Regulations and the insane federal regulations associated with the ICC, DOT, etc. have known about this regs for A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time. And now the proverbial 'light bulb' has gone off in Municipal Manager's Head. Hey, here is a relatively pain free stream of revenue!

Red Raider - 2018-01-03 12:22 PM I usually try to stay out of these posts because things like attorney-client relationship gets implied sometimes but I will chime in to say this is probably the best post in here on what you should probably do.  I keep seeing posts about RV's being exempt and living quarter trailers exempt under RV rules and that's just not always the case. 



Know your state and know the rules of any state that you travel in.  Please understand that once you cross that state line, the 26,001 weight limit rule goes to 10,001 pounds and that is going to involve pretty much anybody -- including myself who owns a 2006 F-150 Ford (7000 GVWR) and pulls a 2 horse gooseneck/no LV (7200 GVWR) for a combined total of 14,200 GVWR.  Some states may not care but other states will and do have more of an active enforcement of these provisions.  I used to be an elected prosecutor for an area that did enforce this rule and yes, I did handle a few of these "10,001/state line" tickets involving activities for profit -- including what we do.  You never know who you are going to be dealing with out there so it's best to know up front before you encounter someone who can call your bluff. 



I also want to say that while everybody on here is focused on not making money by competing, a word to the wise would probably include some type of disclaimer to any of you who are independent sales people for such businesses like horse supplements to human weight-loss/energy to even Scentsy.  You know how you probably throw a couple of those products in the back of the truck to sell or have them in the trailer?  Heck, you probably keep a few in the car/truck at all times in case you meet people who buy from you and they need something when they meet you on the sidewalk or wherever.  Well, if I was you, you probably should make sure that those aren't readily visible to anybody looking through your windows or who can see the "independent dealer" sticker on your truck that you use as advertisement for those items.  You might be headed to a trail ride with your horse but those type of things will probably land you in the "commercial zone" and in hot water if you aren't careful.    

 

smmthbr - 2018-01-04 7:22 AM I look at it from another point of view, as a show manager.  Concerned about the impact it is going to have on exhibitors travelling from a distance over 150 miles, having to now have an additional driver if they have to drive over 10 hours - having to have a "sleeper berth" for the non-driver (and not just in the back seat of the truck or trailer, right?) and if you don't have the aforementioned, having to find a place to stop and layover for minimum of 10 hours.  I see added travel time to a show, the added cost of either another driver in an acceptable non-driving rest location, added cost of boarding horses overnight, motel, the potential problem of people that aren't going to unload or board overnight and just leave the horses on the trailer for that additional length of time, etc etc.    How many exhibitors is that going to impact that decide they can't go to the shows/events farther away?  My concern as show manager is potentially losing exhibitors as well as safety and well being for the horses behing hauled.......

BS Hauler - 2018-01-04 9:34 AM

I actually think that most people will just downsize to trucks and trailers that will be under the 26,000 # limit. so they don't have to worry about the ELD's .  You can still run a pretty nice size rig and stay under that.

OhMax - 2018-01-04 12:42 PM


Can you? Because my 3H 9’ short wall Lakota pulled by a 3500 dually has a GVWR of 26,900. I have pulled it with a 2500 and would rather not.

Three 4 Luck - 2018-01-04 1:18 PM


That’s a big concern I have: people under trucking or buying trailers with smaller axles to stay under the stupid GVWR weight limits. Doesn’t that sound safe?

foundation horse - 2018-01-04 1:49 PM


Tis safer to be overtrucked than undertrucked. Regardless, of regs, when One is overtrucked, One has the capability to stop and being safer than when undertrucked. Kinda hard for a dead driver to pay a fine now is it not?

OhMax - 2018-01-04 2:13 PM


I completely agree - it’s not me one would need to worry about! I see 2500’s and 250’s pulled trailers that have 10’ in length on mine! F’in STUPID!


My point was it doesn’t take much trailer at all to get to that 26,000# mark really, mine is far from the biggest or fanciest rig on the road and we eclipse it, even if just barely. I don’t think you’ll see the majority giving up creature comforts to haul the stock trailer tag along to a 3 or 4 day jackpot.


We’ve considered getting our CDLs for other reasons including my husband being able to truck for local farmers when froze out of other work, so we may just bite the bullet.

Three 4 Luck - 2018-01-04 3:34 PM  Not that difficult?  Says who?

3canstorun - 2018-01-04 3:13 PMUmm, I  know you two are smart enough to get it.  You just have to study.  LOL  Its really not. I just got mine in August. I crammed for a week and passed with flying colors on the written test and got my permit. Drove for an hour a day, for 2 or 3 weeks, I can't remember. Went to the Dmv and passed the driving test first time out.

3canstorun - 2018-01-04 3:13 PM Umm, I  know you two are smart enough to get it.  You just have to study.  LOL  

foundation horse - 2018-01-04 12:49 PM Tis safer to be overtrucked than undertrucked. Regardless, of regs, when One is overtrucked, One has the capability to stop and being safer than when undertrucked. Kinda hard for a dead driver to pay a fine now is it not?

Turnburnsis - 2018-01-04 5:42 PM

That 26001 rule is not very much weight as far as rigs go. I have a 3/4 Dodge that weighs 8,300 (something like that but close I will have to look again) and an elite 3h 4' shortwall trailer that is 14500 in weight. I usually only haul 1-2 horses at a time. and I was in the process of turning it into a weekend quarter without the tanks. that sure doesn't give me much room at all.

OhMax - 2018-01-04 1:42 PM Can you? Because my 3H 9’ short wall Lakota pulled by a 3500 dually has a GVWR of 26,900. I have pulled it with a 2500 and would rather not.

BS Hauler - 2018-01-04 10:34 AM I actually think that most people will just downsize to trucks and trailers that will be under the 26,000 # limit. so they don't have to worry about the ELD's .  You can still run a pretty nice size rig and stay under that.

fulltiltfilly - 2018-01-05 7:03 AM This was my thought too 

rodeomom3 - 2018-01-05 6:52 AM

 This may have been posted already, I did not read all the pages.  I fit into this category, over the weight but I do  not claim any expenses.  According to the I do not need a CDL:
In explanation, amateur owners/non-pros are exempt from the commercial vehicle status if they’re hauling for recreational purposes: you can still load up your horses and go trail riding, and you can still haul your horse to go show for fun as long as you are not deducting your expenses for tax purposes for a business and counting any prize monies as ordinary income (not business income). Essentially, for the recreational horse owner, there’s no need to worry about installing an ELD as hauling is not considered commercial.
Agricultural exemptions also apply to CMVs: the full list of agricultural exemptions can be found here. For transporting horses under the agricultural exemption, you may travel within a 150-mile radius from the source of your commodity without requiring an ELD — in this case, let’s assume your load of horses from your home barn. You may also travel outside of that 150-mile radius no more than eight days every 30 days with the use of a paper log (no need to use an ELD).

OhMax - 2018-01-05 10:06 AM 150 air miles and 8 times a month screw a lot of us who rodeo... Traveling across state lines also messes it up for us. We’ve pretty much decided to get CDL’s.

rodeomom3 - 2018-01-05 12:08 PM  Yep, for us weekend warriors who stay local,  looks like it is not an issue.   I sure hope it is not as much of a hassle for the rest of you as it appears it could be. 

streakysox - 2018-01-05 1:51 PM If your gvw is over 26,000 or you charge a fee for hauling you must have a CDL. That is way more than most of our rigs. That is federal