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Veteran
Posts: 165
 
Location: TN | Just found out our Dinky'sRed Man 3 yr old mare has kissing spine disease. We are heart broken as we had high hopes for her, barrels are not in her future now. Anyone had any experience with this disease? Options are breeding but need to breed to a short back stud probably cow horse breeding. Thought of receipt mare, any thoughts on that? |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
 
Location: Bandera, TX | I feel your pain. I have one I raised myself and had high hopes for that is now is a pasture ornament. Have you considered doing the surgery on yours? For me the money was not worth it as the results are not guranteed. However, some horses have done really well after the surgery. Every new horse now gets major medical insurance in case they will need to have the surgery at some point.
I still have no straight answers on the heredity of the disease. And just because one shows KS on the xrays does not mean that he will ever have symptoms..... |
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Veteran
Posts: 165
Location: TN | Tough news from the vet but glad we found out now before getting further along in her training/showing. My daughter felt something was off when she was working her especially when she was asked for a run. Thought it was a leg/hock issue but nothing there but very tender along spine. She was always fractious when saddled. Won't do any treatments, would have if she was already a proven barrel horse. Oh well,may look into the breeding to recoup some of our money. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Does your vet feel she’s not a good candidate for treatment?
We had one diagnosed in August and injected his, he’s a rope horse and is working fantastic now, better than ever since we’ve had him.
We discussed ligament release surgery at the same time and it would run right around $1000. We haven’t done it yet as we’re waiting to see how long the injections last.
For a horse that young I’d find that investment minimal to know an issue is corrected.
I’d be concerned that carrying a foal could also be painful for her. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | Plenty of horses with kissing spine continue on with very successful performance careers. It’s all about management, making sure the horse is using its body properly, and strengthening the back. There are so many options now days to help these horses!
ETA: It’s not actually a disease.
Edited by Serenity06 2017-12-07 12:46 PM
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| Serenity06 - 2017-12-07 10:44 AM
Plenty of horses with kissing spine continue on with very successful performance careers. It’s all about management, making sure the horse is using its body properly, and strengthening the back. There are so many options now days to help these horses!
ETA: It’s not actually a disease.
Kissing Spine is a disease, albeit not an infectious disease. There are two types of diseases: infectious and non-infectious. Kissing Spine disease is an inflammatory condition caused by the dorsal spinous processes of the thoracic vertebrae being too close and impinging on each other.
Edited by madredepeanut 2017-12-07 2:45 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | madredepeanut - 2017-12-07 1:40 PM
Serenity06 - 2017-12-07 10:44 AM
Plenty of horses with kissing spine continue on with very successful performance careers. It’s all about management, making sure the horse is using its body properly, and strengthening the back. There are so many options now days to help these horses!
ETA: It’s not actually a disease.
Kissing Spine is a disease, albeit not an infectious disease. There are two types of diseases: infectious and non-infectious. Kissing Spine disease is an inflammatory condition caused by the dorsal spinous processes of the thoracic vertebrae being too close and impinging on each other.
I guess the way someone was trying to explain it to me was stuck in my head when I saw the word disease. They were trying to tell me it’s infectious because that’s what they read online. Idk it was weird. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | My horse has it. It's been a bumpy road figuring out how to manage it, but injections, 24/7 turnout, Back On Track, chiro, and inflammation supplements in addition to doing lots of stretching & strengthening exercises under saddle and in hand keep him pretty darn comfortable. Granted I don't compete heavily, I mostly just ride for fun, but it is possible to manage. The surgery is cheap and fast enough, and successful enough, that I would do it in a heartbeat if my vet advised it. |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | I have one that has it. But her back was the least of her issues. With yearly injections her back stays pain free. We have stifle issues now. It is frustrating for sure. But I wouldn’t just up and give up. Do you have X-rays? How many processes are involved? Any bony remodeling? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| I had one with KS and had the surgery done, the remodeling surgery. He's back better than ever. So good, I couldn't ride him so he has a new home with a much better jockey!
If the horse is well bred and shows promise I wouldn't toss him out just yet. To go find another one, get it going, vet it...heck, that's probably more than the cost of the surgery. There are also non-surgical treatments that some folks find helpful. Martha Wright managed one of her best ones with a saddle fit and some other thereapies.
Good Luck!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | madredepeanut - 2017-12-07 2:40 PM Serenity06 - 2017-12-07 10:44 AM Plenty of horses with kissing spine continue on with very successful performance careers. It’s all about management, making sure the horse is using its body properly, and strengthening the back. There are so many options now days to help these horses! ETA: It’s not actually a disease. Kissing Spine is a disease, albeit not an infectious disease. There are two types of diseases: infectious and non-infectious. Kissing Spine disease is an inflammatory condition caused by the dorsal spinous processes of the thoracic vertebrae being too close and impinging on each other.
IDK, I would not call KS a disease, to me it is more like a condition caused by conformation or an injury due to riding, improper saddle fit or other physical activity. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | livinonlove&horses - 2017-12-09 1:21 PM
I have one that has it. But her back was the least of her issues. With yearly injections her back stays pain free. We have stifle issues now. It is frustrating for sure. But I wouldn’t just up and give up. Do you have X-rays? How many processes are involved? Any bony remodeling?
That’s how my mare is. The kissing spine is under control but she now has front feet, hock, and stifle issues. :( |
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| hotpaints - 2017-12-09 4:54 PM
madredepeanut - 2017-12-07 2:40 PM Serenity06 - 2017-12-07 10:44 AM Plenty of horses with kissing spine continue on with very successful performance careers. It’s all about management, making sure the horse is using its body properly, and strengthening the back. There are so many options now days to help these horses! ETA: It’s not actually a disease. Kissing Spine is a disease, albeit not an infectious disease. There are two types of diseases: infectious and non-infectious. Kissing Spine disease is an inflammatory condition caused by the dorsal spinous processes of the thoracic vertebrae being too close and impinging on each other.
Disease literally means "lack of ease" or "dis-ease".
Here's the definition of disease from Merriam Webster:
a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms |
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Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | Serenity06 - 2017-12-09 10:14 PM livinonlove&horses - 2017-12-09 1:21 PM I have one that has it. But her back was the least of her issues. With yearly injections her back stays pain free. We have stifle issues now. It is frustrating for sure. But I wouldn’t just up and give up. Do you have X-rays? How many processes are involved? Any bony remodeling? That’s how my mare is. The kissing spine is under control but she now has front feet, hock, and stifle issues. : (
Mine has SI and stifle issues. But I often wonder if the stifle issues are caused by the SI. It’s super frustrating and the good vets I feel that can help me, that have experience with KS are long drives away! I’m considering making her a broodie. Or selling her to someone else and see what they can do with her |
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Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | madredepeanut - 2017-12-10 8:44 AM
hotpaints - 2017-12-09 4:54 PM
madredepeanut - 2017-12-07 2:40 PM Serenity06 - 2017-12-07 10:44 AM Plenty of horses with kissing spine continue on with very successful performance careers. It’s all about management, making sure the horse is using its body properly, and strengthening the back. There are so many options now days to help these horses! ETA: It’s not actually a disease. Kissing Spine is a disease, albeit not an infectious disease. There are two types of diseases: infectious and non-infectious. Kissing Spine disease is an inflammatory condition caused by the dorsal spinous processes of the thoracic vertebrae being too close and impinging on each other.
Disease literally means "lack of ease" or "dis-ease".
Here's the definition of disease from Merriam Webster:
a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms
I think you all are splitting hairs. Who cares if it’s a disease or not in definition? It’s affecting the OPs horse and she asked for advice |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | livinonlove&horses - 2017-12-10 4:14 PM Serenity06 - 2017-12-09 10:14 PM livinonlove&horses - 2017-12-09 1:21 PM I have one that has it. But her back was the least of her issues. With yearly injections her back stays pain free. We have stifle issues now. It is frustrating for sure. But I wouldn’t just up and give up. Do you have X-rays? How many processes are involved? Any bony remodeling? That’s how my mare is. The kissing spine is under control but she now has front feet, hock, and stifle issues. : (
The problems with the above horses make me wonder which came first and caused other problems from compensating? KS first then the stifle/hock/SI problems or the other way around. I tend to think the back problems came first then the other but a horse with stifle problems will usually have back pain too. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | livinonlove&horses - 2017-12-10 4:16 PM madredepeanut - 2017-12-10 8:44 AM hotpaints - 2017-12-09 4:54 PM madredepeanut - 2017-12-07 2:40 PM Serenity06 - 2017-12-07 10:44 AM Plenty of horses with kissing spine continue on with very successful performance careers. It’s all about management, making sure the horse is using its body properly, and strengthening the back. There are so many options now days to help these horses! ETA: It’s not actually a disease. Kissing Spine is a disease, albeit not an infectious disease. There are two types of diseases: infectious and non-infectious. Kissing Spine disease is an inflammatory condition caused by the dorsal spinous processes of the thoracic vertebrae being too close and impinging on each other. Disease literally means "lack of ease" or "dis-ease". Here's the definition of disease from Merriam Webster: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms I think you all are splitting hairs. Who cares if it’s a disease or not in definition? It’s affecting the OPs horse and she asked for advice
Ditto  , who cares KP is a problem either way you look at it  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | livinonlove&horses - 2017-12-10 3:14 PM
Serenity06 - 2017-12-09 10:14 PM livinonlove&horses - 2017-12-09 1:21 PM I have one that has it. But her back was the least of her issues. With yearly injections her back stays pain free. We have stifle issues now. It is frustrating for sure. But I wouldn’t just up and give up. Do you have X-rays? How many processes are involved? Any bony remodeling? That’s how my mare is. The kissing spine is under control but she now has front feet, hock, and stifle issues. : (
That’s the exact situation I’m in. We have no clue what came first and can’t seem to get it all balanced out on a consistent basis. So she is semi-retired and gets light exercise because she can’t stand not getting out. The better vets are 2+ hours away and I’m pretty much out of money. She’s taken almost all of it. So I’m back to saving up Tao I can go to one of those vets and be able to say, do what’s needed, and actually HAVE the money. I was going to breed her but with the pain she has I couldn’t do it. I bought a baby. Lol |
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Veteran
Posts: 165
Location: TN | Thanks for everyones input. Not giving up on her just won't be a barrel horse. Not going to do the surgery it would be different if she was already a proven barrel horse. We may breed her, vet said that would be fine. I just wanted to know if anyone has any experience with KS..
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| A good friend runs one that has KS. She injects his back every 6 months and he is a solid 2D horse. Its not career ending if caught early and maintained.
However...
I bought a project gelding several years ago. He had a history of breaking in half at odd times and hurting people. 14 owners in 13 years that I could track down. I was number 15. I worked with him for awhile but something wasn't quite right with him. Took him in and had his back xrayed because I started suspecting KS. 3 vertebras in the wither area and 4 in the lumbar area. Those being the worst. This poor guy was in a lot of pain. We felt it was in his best interest to put him down. There was no fixing him. He had it for too long. It was heart breaking as he was the sweetest, coolest, guy that we had ever had. I took time to really get to know him and he trusted me. The day we put him down, he thanked us. It was a surreal experience but he knew what was up. He was at peace and so were we. I still miss him.
But the point of my rambling is that if its caught and maintained, your horse should have no issues. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Jazz's Girl - 2017-12-11 8:40 AM
A good friend runs one that has KS. She injects his back every 6 months and he is a solid 2D horse. Its not career ending if caught early and maintained.
However...
I bought a project gelding several years ago. He had a history of breaking in half at odd times and hurting people. 14 owners in 13 years that I could track down. I was number 15. I worked with him for awhile but something wasn't quite right with him. Took him in and had his back xrayed because I started suspecting KS. 3 vertebras in the wither area and 4 in the lumbar area. Those being the worst. This poor guy was in a lot of pain. We felt it was in his best interest to put him down. There was no fixing him. He had it for too long. It was heart breaking as he was the sweetest, coolest, guy that we had ever had. I took time to really get to know him and he trusted me. The day we put him down, he thanked us. It was a surreal experience but he knew what was up. He was at peace and so were we. I still miss him.
But the point of my rambling is that if its caught and maintained, your horse should have no issues.
This is so sad that poor boy hurt so long and everyone kept passing him on down the line. Thank goodness you were there for him in the end. . . . |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | letswin - 2017-12-10 7:17 PM
Thanks for everyones input. Not giving up on her just won't be a barrel horse. Not going to do the surgery it would be different if she was already a proven barrel horse. We may breed her, vet said that would be fine. I just wanted to know if anyone has any experience with KS..
Did the vet say she needed surgery? You can forward the X-rays to Dr Honnas who is a surgical expert in the kissing spine field and he’ll give you an honest opinion! He told me my mare wasn’t a candidate for surgery and that once the inflammation was under control there was no reason she could return to barrels. The vet who diagnosed her told me her career was over because of the KS. My mates back is fine now, she just has other lameness issues preventing her from going back to barrels right now. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| Chandler's Mom - 2017-12-11 10:06 PM
Jazz's Girl - 2017-12-11 8:40 AM
A good friend runs one that has KS. She injects his back every 6 months and he is a solid 2D horse. Its not career ending if caught early and maintained.
However...
I bought a project gelding several years ago. He had a history of breaking in half at odd times and hurting people. 14 owners in 13 years that I could track down. I was number 15. I worked with him for awhile but something wasn't quite right with him. Took him in and had his back xrayed because I started suspecting KS. 3 vertebras in the wither area and 4 in the lumbar area. Those being the worst. This poor guy was in a lot of pain. We felt it was in his best interest to put him down. There was no fixing him. He had it for too long. It was heart breaking as he was the sweetest, coolest, guy that we had ever had. I took time to really get to know him and he trusted me. The day we put him down, he thanked us. It was a surreal experience but he knew what was up. He was at peace and so were we. I still miss him.
But the point of my rambling is that if its caught and maintained, your horse should have no issues.
This is so sad that poor boy hurt so long and everyone kept passing him on down the line. Thank goodness you were there for him in the end. . . .
Your so correct. I'm a sucker for a project and that he was but he also taught me so much. When he first came to us he was sullen and withdrawn. No life in his eyes. With time his true personality started to come out and he was a mess! I called him Wilbur, because Pigpen was too long of a name. He loved mud and being in your business. I even got him over coming at you at feeding time. I think it was due to him being almost starved to death at one point. He would bolt his feed though and choked a few times. Every time he would leave his bucket and walk up to my husband or me and give us a help look. Massage his throat and it would pass. He would look at us and go back to eating. Nothing slowed him down. He always took a huge bite of food initially. God I miss that big red goofball and its been 2 years since we put him down. |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Jazz's Girl - 2017-12-12 8:12 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2017-12-11 10:06 PM
Jazz's Girl - 2017-12-11 8:40 AM
A good friend runs one that has KS. She injects his back every 6 months and he is a solid 2D horse. Its not career ending if caught early and maintained.
However...
I bought a project gelding several years ago. He had a history of breaking in half at odd times and hurting people. 14 owners in 13 years that I could track down. I was number 15. I worked with him for awhile but something wasn't quite right with him. Took him in and had his back xrayed because I started suspecting KS. 3 vertebras in the wither area and 4 in the lumbar area. Those being the worst. This poor guy was in a lot of pain. We felt it was in his best interest to put him down. There was no fixing him. He had it for too long. It was heart breaking as he was the sweetest, coolest, guy that we had ever had. I took time to really get to know him and he trusted me. The day we put him down, he thanked us. It was a surreal experience but he knew what was up. He was at peace and so were we. I still miss him.
But the point of my rambling is that if its caught and maintained, your horse should have no issues.
This is so sad that poor boy hurt so long and everyone kept passing him on down the line. Thank goodness you were there for him in the end. . . .
Your so correct. I'm a sucker for a project and that he was but he also taught me so much. When he first came to us he was sullen and withdrawn. No life in his eyes. With time his true personality started to come out and he was a mess! I called him Wilbur, because Pigpen was too long of a name. He loved mud and being in your business. I even got him over coming at you at feeding time. I think it was due to him being almost starved to death at one point. He would bolt his feed though and choked a few times. Every time he would leave his bucket and walk up to my husband or me and give us a help look. Massage his throat and it would pass. He would look at us and go back to eating. Nothing slowed him down. He always took a huge bite of food initially. God I miss that big red goofball and its been 2 years since we put him down.
People like you get a gold star for your big heart  |
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 Expert
Posts: 1613
Location: Wild Wild West | What does the surgery usually cost? |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I have a gelding with "minor" kissing spine and he is managed with massage and proper exercise. However, I believe his also had soft tissue injury.
With that said, I asked Tiany about it at the NFR and she said she has had 6 horses do surgery and success on all of them. Just for anyone curious. I believe Stevi Hillman's Truck also had the surgery. I don't know the cost though. |
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boon
Posts: 1
| Hi there, I had KS surgery done on my barrel horse Sept. 2016... he has not come back. He physically cannot turn a barrel like he used to... I basically have given up and haven't ridden him in months... I am just sick. I am wanting to try him again. What exercises do you suggest? TIA |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | My gelding had six places operated on by Dr. Honnas in 2016 would 100 percent do it again. He is feeling great and still running and competitive! Sadly don't do it if you ever want to sellchave him for sale and once people find out about the surgery no one will even come try him. Oh well guess he stays with me |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Bump |
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kissing spine disease