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Regular
Posts: 67
| I have a 10 year old mare who is very “Marish” but almost stud like in terms of if she gets by a gelding she gets big and puffy and swishes her tail back and forth. I’ve tried a hormone implant, mare magic, etc etc. She has always been a slight tail swisher under saddle, usually if I wore my bumper spurs, and applied leg, but she is overall just a super sensitive mare. She got really bad ulcers several years ago which I still maintenance for to this day, and she looks great and shows no signs. This mare is one who will start bucking if anything is hurting her. For instance, when she had ulcers she bucked. If the saddle doesn’t fit, she bucks, a little over a year ago she tore her suspensory in her right hind, when she did that during her run, she started bucking. She had about 8 months off, I got the clearing to start riding her again and after a few weeks she went lame in her front left, nerve blocked to her foot, xrayed clean. Pretty soon it was both fronts. Went to a different vet. Got her coffins injected. Much better. Fast forward a month, goes lame again. Seemed better in softer ground than harder. Vet says try raising her heels with a wedge shoe. Did that, got worse. Took her back in xrayed clean, injected her navicular bursas and took off all shoes. She’s been great ever since.
Finally. But now whenever I ride her. (Honestly ever since bringing her back originally) she has swished her tail pretty much constantly. If you ask her to do anything more than a walk. If you apply any face or bit pressure, it ****es her off, swish, swish, swish. Leg pressure same thing. Trotting loping turning anything. I have had this horse checked over head to freaking toe. I had her ovaries ultrasounded to see if perhaps she had maybe a cyst or irregular ovaries causing pain. Generally tail swishing to me is pain. My old mare swished her tail but only when we ran barrels, it was just her, she wasn’t hurting. But this mare is now a constant tail swisher and honestly it’s driving me absolutely crazy. Sometimes she flips it up and it hits me in the face. This shouldn’t even be happening. Am I missing something? Should I try something else? Take her do another vet whose never seen her and doesn’t know her history? I’m honestly tired of dumping money into this horse. She can sometimes have a very poor work ethic but has made some phenomenal runs. Getting her back to that point after her big injury has been a huge struggle.
Sorry it’s so long I figure a back story may be beneficial in helping. | |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
  
Location: southeast Texas | What are you feeding?
My horse is a tail swisher any time I touch him with my legs. He was alway a little off. Several different vets gave me the I don't see anything wrong with this horse look.
After reading, for quite some time, about PSSM, I put him on the PSSM diet. Amazing changes for the good. But he was still a tiny bit off. I had also been reading about golden paste. I decided what the heck, it is cheep enough. That turned the corner. He feels the best he has ever felt.
His test came back, P2/P2 px RER | |
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Regular
Posts: 67
| She gets alfalfa morning and night. Which is a diet she has always been on since being diagnosed with ulcers. And then she gets haystack special blend and purina healthy edge. Both are low in sugar and starch. What exactly do you feed? | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Does her saddle fit well? I would check your saddle over really well making sure no screws are backing out, make sure the saddle pad is not bothering her, cinch is not bothering her.What type of pad and cinch are you useing?. Did you have her checked for Kissing Spine? Just throwing some ideas your way. I have a gelding thats super sensitive too and cant use certain pads are cinches on him are else hes a butt head.. | |
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Regular
Posts: 67
| Her saddle fits well. I’ll look it over again just to make sure. She only likes fleece bottom pads, so that is what I use and felt lined cinches. She is very picky. I have not had her checked for kissing spine. Is that something that can develop as they get older? She’s 10 now.
Edited by GiveYourAll 2018-01-02 2:43 PM
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | GiveYourAll - 2018-01-02 2:42 PM Her saddle fits well. I’ll look it over again just to make sure. She only likes fleece bottom pads, so that is what I use and felt lined cinches. She is very picky. I have not had her checked for kissing spine. Is that something that can develop as they get older? She’s 10 now.
I'm sure horses can develop kissing spine at any age, go to Search this Forum and type in kissing spine and go to a year theres alot of discussion about it and maybe you can compare your mare to some of the others on the subject and get a better understanding of it. I never had to deal with ks so I'm a lucky one but have learned alot by reading those threads.  | |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| GiveYourAll - 2018-01-02 2:42 PM
Her saddle fits well. I’ll look it over again just to make sure. She only likes fleece bottom pads, so that is what I use and felt lined cinches. She is very picky. I have not had her checked for kissing spine. Is that something that can develop as they get older? She’s 10 now.
They can develop it as young as 4 or so. They can diagnose it with back x rays most of the time. | |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | I would have her xrayed for kissing spine. | |
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | it must be the shoes are fitted to tight, get a different farrier. | |
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Regular
Posts: 67
| cow pie - 2018-01-04 8:47 AM
it must be the shoes are fitted to tight, get a different farrier.
She is no longer wearing shoes. And hasn’t been for a few months. | |
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| GiveYourAll - 2018-01-02 7:31 AM I have a 10 year old mare who is very “Marish” but almost stud like in terms of if she gets by a gelding she gets big and puffy and swishes her tail back and forth. I’ve tried a hormone implant, mare magic, etc etc. She has always been a slight tail swisher under saddle, usually if I wore my bumper spurs, and applied leg, but she is overall just a super sensitive mare. She got really bad ulcers several years ago which I still maintenance for to this day, and she looks great and shows no signs. This mare is one who will start bucking if anything is hurting her. For instance, when she had ulcers she bucked. If the saddle doesn’t fit, she bucks, a little over a year ago she tore her suspensory in her right hind, when she did that during her run, she started bucking. She had about 8 months off, I got the clearing to start riding her again and after a few weeks she went lame in her front left, nerve blocked to her foot, xrayed clean. Pretty soon it was both fronts. Went to a different vet. Got her coffins injected. Much better. Fast forward a month, goes lame again. Seemed better in softer ground than harder. Vet says try raising her heels with a wedge shoe. Did that, got worse. Took her back in xrayed clean, injected her navicular bursas and took off all shoes. She’s been great ever since. Finally. But now whenever I ride her. (Honestly ever since bringing her back originally) she has swished her tail pretty much constantly. If you ask her to do anything more than a walk. If you apply any face or bit pressure, it ****es her off, swish, swish, swish. Leg pressure same thing. Trotting loping turning anything. I have had this horse checked over head to freaking toe. I had her ovaries ultrasounded to see if perhaps she had maybe a cyst or irregular ovaries causing pain. Generally tail swishing to me is pain. My old mare swished her tail but only when we ran barrels, it was just her, she wasn’t hurting. But this mare is now a constant tail swisher and honestly it’s driving me absolutely crazy. Sometimes she flips it up and it hits me in the face. This shouldn’t even be happening. Am I missing something? Should I try something else? Take her do another vet whose never seen her and doesn’t know her history? I’m honestly tired of dumping money into this horse. She can sometimes have a very poor work ethic but has made some phenomenal runs. Getting her back to that point after her big injury has been a huge struggle. Sorry it’s so long I figure a back story may be beneficial in helping.
1. I would start with detoxing her - focusing on the liver and kidneys first and then her full body. There are many products on the market but personally, I like the Silver Lining Herbs for the liver and kidneys and Vivo Animals ZeoClear for the full body. Good rule of thumb is to incorporate a detox regimen at least twice per year.
2. Dive into her nutrition to ensure it is balanced appropriately for her needs - hormonal/marish behavior is a huge red flag of vitamin and mineral imbalance.
3. Hind gut ulcers have many of the same symptoms as liver and kidney buildup so if she is still symptomatic after the detox, treating for HGUs may benefit her. I would suggest avoiding using drugs to do so or you'll need to detox again.
4. Wouldn't hurt to test for the PSSM variants through EquiSeq lab and a 5 panel through Animal Genetics or AQHA (if applicable) especially if the mystery lameness continues. BridgeEquine.com has a database of different bloodlines with confirmed positive test results so you can do some research there and on the PSSM Forum facebook group if you feel this is still a possibility.
Good luck. | |
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Regular
Posts: 67
| wishingforsun - 2018-01-04 5:17 PM
GiveYourAll - 2018-01-02 7:31 AM I have a 10 year old mare who is very “Marish” but almost stud like in terms of if she gets by a gelding she gets big and puffy and swishes her tail back and forth. I’ve tried a hormone implant, mare magic, etc etc. She has always been a slight tail swisher under saddle, usually if I wore my bumper spurs, and applied leg, but she is overall just a super sensitive mare. She got really bad ulcers several years ago which I still maintenance for to this day, and she looks great and shows no signs. This mare is one who will start bucking if anything is hurting her. For instance, when she had ulcers she bucked. If the saddle doesn’t fit, she bucks, a little over a year ago she tore her suspensory in her right hind, when she did that during her run, she started bucking. She had about 8 months off, I got the clearing to start riding her again and after a few weeks she went lame in her front left, nerve blocked to her foot, xrayed clean. Pretty soon it was both fronts. Went to a different vet. Got her coffins injected. Much better. Fast forward a month, goes lame again. Seemed better in softer ground than harder. Vet says try raising her heels with a wedge shoe. Did that, got worse. Took her back in xrayed clean, injected her navicular bursas and took off all shoes. She’s been great ever since. Finally. But now whenever I ride her. (Honestly ever since bringing her back originally) she has swished her tail pretty much constantly. If you ask her to do anything more than a walk. If you apply any face or bit pressure, it ****es her off, swish, swish, swish. Leg pressure same thing. Trotting loping turning anything. I have had this horse checked over head to freaking toe. I had her ovaries ultrasounded to see if perhaps she had maybe a cyst or irregular ovaries causing pain. Generally tail swishing to me is pain. My old mare swished her tail but only when we ran barrels, it was just her, she wasn’t hurting. But this mare is now a constant tail swisher and honestly it’s driving me absolutely crazy. Sometimes she flips it up and it hits me in the face. This shouldn’t even be happening. Am I missing something? Should I try something else? Take her do another vet whose never seen her and doesn’t know her history? I’m honestly tired of dumping money into this horse. She can sometimes have a very poor work ethic but has made some phenomenal runs. Getting her back to that point after her big injury has been a huge struggle. Sorry it’s so long I figure a back story may be beneficial in helping.
1. I would start with detoxing her - focusing on the liver and kidneys first and then her full body. There are many products on the market but personally, I like the Silver Lining Herbs for the liver and kidneys and Vivo Animals ZeoClear for the full body. Good rule of thumb is to incorporate a detox regimen at least twice per year.
2. Dive into her nutrition to ensure it is balanced appropriately for her needs - hormonal/marish behavior is a huge red flag of vitamin and mineral imbalance.
3. Hind gut ulcers have many of the same symptoms as liver and kidney buildup so if she is still symptomatic after the detox, treating for HGUs may benefit her. I would suggest avoiding using drugs to do so or you'll need to detox again.
4. Wouldn't hurt to test for the PSSM variants through EquiSeq lab and a 5 panel through Animal Genetics or AQHA (if applicable) especially if the mystery lameness continues. BridgeEquine.com has a database of different bloodlines with confirmed positive test results so you can do some research there and on the PSSM Forum facebook group if you feel this is still a possibility.
Good luck.
Thank you. Very helpful. We are going to a vet tomorrow to just do a thorough overall examination. Make sure I’m ruling out the simpler things. I’ll mention all these to her. I don’t believe she has hind gut ulcers. I have had her on THE gastroplus for a few years now, and she has only showed improvement on this stuff. When she had ulcers she lost about 200 pounds, and got a really dull coat. She is fat and shiny. I feel pretty confident about the ulcer situation but never say never I suppose. I feel like even after all the injections, etc that she still isn’t 100%. I’ll look into detoxing her. Im going to check her teeth, and my vet is a chiro also, start there and with a flexion test all around and talk to her about pssm.. I’ll update with what routes we end up going. I truly appreciate the insight. It’s all helpful. | |
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Location: Choctaw, OK | When mares act like stallions it's usually caused from a granulosa cell tumor on the ovary. Have they done blood work to check testosterone levels? | |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | I would definitely x-ray for kissing spine,let us know how her check up went.sounds alittle like kidneys or ovaries as well.
Edited by jake16 2018-01-05 2:36 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | RoughstockKennel - 2018-01-05 2:31 PM When mares act like stallions it's usually caused from a granulosa cell tumor on the ovary. Have they done blood work to check testosterone levels?
This ^^^ check hormone levels and repro exam. | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Just checking in with you wondering how the Vet visit went? 
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2018-01-05 6:19 PM
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Regular
Posts: 67
| Southtxponygirl - 2018-01-05 4:16 PM
Just checking in with you wondering how the Vet visit went?
She for whatever reason was very lame the day I took her to the vet. We nerve blocked her front feet, one at a time, and once we did that, she became completely sound. After that we flexed every joint and she flexed sound. Checked for kissing spine, no issues. We checked her teeth. They could use being done, but she didn’t have major sharp points that would potentially cause any problems. We ultrasounded her ovaries again, and they “appear” normal in a ultrasound. We talked about doing a hormone panel. I didn’t do one at this particular appointment but I’m taking her back in a couple weeks and will get one done. Vet said her movement is “classic navicular.” We xrayed, and she still shows no bone change. She said that there is navicular disease and navicular syndrome. One is bone change one is more soft tissue. Even though I injected her navicular bursas in November since it’s probably soft tissue, she is assuming it only helped so much.
She recommended either, doing prostride, which is IRAP, where they draw her blood, spin it and re inject into the navicular bursa... osphos... or a neurectomy.
Even though she has been fairly sound, she still would have a off day here or there and she said all it takes is one wrong step to concuss and make her feet hurt.
She thinks it’s her feet causing most of the problems, the mare has fairly small feet for her size and weight. So I’m not surprised. I think mostly her feet have hurt all along and I feel bad now  | |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Did they recommend a mri since it maybe soft tissue and they still don't completely know the cause? | |
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Regular
Posts: 67
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-01-06 10:22 PM
Did they recommend a mri since it maybe soft tissue and they still don't completely know the cause?
Yes that would tell me every issue she has. But right now is not something I can afford to do. It’s minimum of $3k here and I called around to different vets yesterday asking for prices. Believe me I want to help her and I’m trying but only so much I can do at one time. | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | What type of feed is she on? I have a gelding that I have to watch what feed hes getting and no pasture during the spring and summer months if we're getting rain, he cant handle the sugars and his feet get real sore, hes IR {Insulin Resistant} just found this out last spring after years trying to figure out why he was lame one day and not the next. I use two vets one here in town and one in Selma, I was using the wrong Vet, I finally took him to my main Vet in Selma and he figured out what was going on with him. Ask your Vet about IR.. Its the horses that are easy keepers that can have IR problems. | |
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Regular
Posts: 67
| Southtxponygirl - 2018-01-07 9:04 AM
What type of feed is she on? I have a gelding that I have to watch what feed hes getting and no pasture during the spring and summer months if we're getting rain, he cant handle the sugars and his feet get real sore, hes IR {Insulin Resistant} just found this out last spring after years trying to figure out why he was lame one day and not the next. I use two vets one here in town and one in Selma, I was using the wrong Vet, I finally took him to my main Vet in Selma and he figured out what was going on with him. Ask your Vet about IR.. Its the horses that are easy keepers that can have IR problems.
She gets alfalfa and grass hay, and she gets haystack special blend which is 5% starch and 7% sugars, and a bit of purina healthy edge with that which I also believe is low(er) starch and sugar. She isn’t a super easy keeper but she isn’t a hard keeper either. But I can ask about it :) | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | GiveYourAll - 2018-01-07 3:46 PM Southtxponygirl - 2018-01-07 9:04 AM What type of feed is she on? I have a gelding that I have to watch what feed hes getting and no pasture during the spring and summer months if we're getting rain, he cant handle the sugars and his feet get real sore, hes IR {Insulin Resistant} just found this out last spring after years trying to figure out why he was lame one day and not the next. I use two vets one here in town and one in Selma, I was using the wrong Vet, I finally took him to my main Vet in Selma and he figured out what was going on with him. Ask your Vet about IR.. Its the horses that are easy keepers that can have IR problems. She gets alfalfa and grass hay, and she gets haystack special blend which is 5% starch and 7% sugars, and a bit of purina healthy edge with that which I also believe is low (er ) starch and sugar. She isn’t a super easy keeper but she isn’t a hard keeper either. But I can ask about it : )
Sounds like you got this covered | |
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Regular
Posts: 67
| Southtxponygirl - 2018-01-07 1:51 PM
GiveYourAll - 2018-01-07 3:46 PM Southtxponygirl - 2018-01-07 9:04 AM What type of feed is she on? I have a gelding that I have to watch what feed hes getting and no pasture during the spring and summer months if we're getting rain, he cant handle the sugars and his feet get real sore, hes IR {Insulin Resistant} just found this out last spring after years trying to figure out why he was lame one day and not the next. I use two vets one here in town and one in Selma, I was using the wrong Vet, I finally took him to my main Vet in Selma and he figured out what was going on with him. Ask your Vet about IR.. Its the horses that are easy keepers that can have IR problems. She gets alfalfa and grass hay, and she gets haystack special blend which is 5% starch and 7% sugars, and a bit of purina healthy edge with that which I also believe is low (er ) starch and sugar. She isn’t a super easy keeper but she isn’t a hard keeper either. But I can ask about it : )
Thank you for the suggestion :) | |
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Excessive tail swishing