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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
  
Location: In The Snow, AZ | Figured I’d start a new thread instead of stealing another...
I have a gelding whom I’ve owned for a few months. He has every ounce of potential to be a top competitor. He has legs and speed for days. However, ive lost enough confidence that I can’t push him anymore, and have decided to not enter him any more until I can figure out how to fix our issue.
He is super calm. Not phased by much. I can run a pattern and then walk it. Doesn’t get hot. Walk in, walk out. He will only go the speed I ask, until it’s time to come home, then it’s a dead run, nothing less, won’t slow down and won’t stop until he absolutely has no other choice. This past weekend, we came in so fast, he couldn’t take the turn in time and slammed my leg into the panels and nearly tried to jump them. The only way I can get him to slow and stop is if we have a wide berth to work with. It doesn’t matter if I start trying to sit and stop him immediately after turning the last barrel. It ain’t happening. But only at a race, local arenas, time onlies, home; no problem at all.
I’ve tried a few different bits; Million Dollar, Stabilizer, Twisted wire Wonder bit, Twisted and smooth long shanked snaffles. I’ve adjust curb chains. Tried tie downs, bonnets, headsetters. Nothing changes except I break curb chains. I know, I’m not proud...
Now I also know people are going to say it’s a training issue. This horse is broke. He bends, flexes, gives to the bit, rides around collected; walk, trot, lope. Great stop (at home) and reverse. Doing slow work at the arena, he’s fine. Super soft, very responsive. He’s not naughty and tries so hard. We’ve been doing lots of roll backs, counter arcing. Practice stopping and resting all the time. I had finally thought we were in a good position, but this past weekend proved me wrong.
I’ve talked with a few different people, and they’re suggesting a stronger bit to get his attention, and then to back down once he “gets it”. I then come on here and read about using a stronger bit on a hard mouthed horse. I emailed the Molly Powell website and she recommended the chain, long shanked bit she offers(also something mentioned on here).
I’m just looking for suggestions and help. I’ve never had this issue with any of my horses. He’s such a strong running horse that I love riding and running. But at this point, I just can’t.
Sorry for the book, I just want to make sure I cover as much as possible.
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Veteran
Posts: 234
| most of the ones I have seen ended up being undiagnosed bleeders at the point of turning the third barrel home they are panicked |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Sounds like he is VERY well trained, so I second the BB who suggests a bleeder. Something is messing with him, be it bleeding or pain. Something is making him dread stopping at a run and I just don't think a bigger bit is the answer on this one.
I sure hope you get it figured out and keep us updated. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Befor I would start on bits I would take him and have him scoped to make sure hes not a bleeder and there's no pain going on somewhere and get that out of the way, then I would start trying something different. Good luck  |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Just a thought,, have you talked to the person you bought him from about this problem of not wanting to stop? |
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | Southtxponygirl - 2018-01-09 9:10 AM
Just a thought,, have you talked to the person you bought him from about this problem of not wanting to stop?
That’s a touchy subject. Long story short, the old owner is very well known for making some really nice horses. Unfortunately, with this gelding, I couldn’t find any results for. I could find results for her on 8 or so different horses, but not him. I asked her multiple times for video and/or results of him. She kept saying she would get them To me, but never did. So I asked several times “what races” “which arenas” “what websites can I look him up on”, and she was always very vague. She would just say “down south”.
When I got him, he hadn’t been used in about a year and a half. She said he would need tuned up but that’s all. Even trying him at her house, he wanted to run back up the arena once turning at the end. But I didn’t think much of it at that point.
She did say he had never bled, granted that makes no difference because it doesn’t mean he doesn’t bleed. That is something I didn’t think of.
I appreciate the responses greatly. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| First thoughts:
Bleeder? Hocks? Front feet? Teeth? One or all four or a combination of all the above.
Equine lameness specialist, yesterday. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| I have one that came off the track. He had never been taught to stop. When he got rolling, don't plan on a stop. We worked on stops for months. Walk straight to a fence, plant my butt and get my feet forward, say whoa and pick up the reins. After doing this a million times and getting him to stop when I planted my butt, we moved up to a trot. Same thing. Then a fast trot. Then a lope. Then a faster lope. This takes a LOT of repetition. My horses all stop when I say whoa. He does now. |
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 Too Skinny
Posts: 8009
Location: LA Lower Alabama | Trick question... If he ran up to a wall full speed. Would he stop, turn or hit it?
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | jbw tx mom - 2018-01-09 10:26 AM most of the ones I have seen ended up being undiagnosed bleeders at the point of turning the third barrel home they are panicked
This is what I was going to say too. Knock on wood I've never had a horse that bled, but I have been told that if a horse is a bleeder, they start "panicking" after the 3rd barrel because they can't get air and are choking on blood, and thus won't stop running home.
So I would say that checking if the horse is a bleeder might be one of the first things to check.
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | cowgalsissy - 2018-01-09 11:25 AM
Trick question... If he ran up to a wall full speed. Would he stop, turn or hit it?
He would turn... just didn’t turn fast enough last weekend 
I guess I will start looking into having him scoped. We don’t have any good vets locally that I would trust doing much more than sell me a tube of Banamine...
And to the above who said about not being taught to stop, he has a great stop when he’s not running home. ;) |
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 Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | omg, your in Arizona I would seek out help from a professional also...........don't wait life is too short! |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Start with the scope, if you don’t have one locally you may need to haul somewhere where you can run him and scope within 24 hours - although I’d be curious if he’s bleeding repeatedly if a scope would show something regardless? Someone with more experience could tell you.
My other thought if he is not bleeding and otherwise vets clean is that he got sold for a reason and you got took. Might be fixable might not be, will likely take a lot of time and patience. |
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 Saint Stacey
| If it’s not a physical issue, set up a back to back barrel pattern so that when he runs off at 3rd, he’s headed right back towards a first barrel. He’ll figure out pretty fast that he’s in a no win situation. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
Location: W. Pa. | Ive had the exact same horse. As a matter of fact I still own him. He is now 33 years old. We would have a fantastic run going and turn the third barrel and he would kick in another gear. He was also broke very well. Never did it at home. We never even had to practice barrels at home. He would turn a barrel with a halter on but don't ask him to stop after the third barrel . I bought him as a two year old so I pretty much knew his entire history. I used a combination bit on him with a metal nose band wrapped with vet wrap and wire nose band on the tie down. When we turned the third barrel He would stick his nose out and kick in the turbo speed. I kid you not. By putting the wire nose band on the tie down it stopped him from sticking his nose out and running "off" If he tried to stick his nose out the wire would bit him. This horse won many barrel races with some tuff competition. I never had to chase him home. I would suggest you try the wire tie down. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
Location: W. Pa. | By the way, My horse would never hit the wall or fence or anything else that he approached during a run home. It could be a quick left, right , left and BOOM!!! your on the ground or you got flung into the wall or saddle horn. I liked running where we had plenty of room to stop. And also he turned out to be one hell of a youth horse for both of my kids. |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I agree with those who have recommended you scope him, both pre and post race. I also would be interested to see an exercise scope. My bet is that he is displacing his soft palate and it is causing him to panic. I had one that did this due to inflammation and mucous in his upper airways resulting from what had been diagnosed as mild allergies. The longer we ignored the issue, the worse it got, along with his "allergies". We did multiple standing scopes both pre and post race and he never did bleed. Did an exercise scope and voila. Prior to the exercise scope, his glottis was always inflammed and he always had a ton of mucous in there, but would just cough once or twice when you first started warming up. Once we got him healthy and the inflammation cleared up, the habit was still there and it took me about a year of just easy cruise throughs even when entered for him to learn he wasn't suffocating and me be able to stop him. By the end of the second year of being healthy, I was able to stop him within 20 foot of the alley, very controlled, every time. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If you are scoping him, go to a race track, breeze him out, then have the vet scope. Best time to do it is immediately after.
It could also be a flapper issue.
If the scope is negative, then I would go a complete vet check.
If all comes back well, you are going to have to sacrifice some runs. Bit him up run 1/2/3 then walk home.
Dave Elliott Oscar bit is a good one, if the shank leverage won't work, you may have to go to a bicycle chain.
Or retire him from barrel racing |
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | He’s only 8, so I’d rather not retire him. Haha. BUT, I have talked to a very well known vet about everything and they’re recommending to first treat for ulcers and then scope thereafter if he’s still having difficulty. I’m sure we will end up having to scope, but they want to take this route first. |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | Sooo, WHEN and WHERE does he stop?? Does he run back to the warmup area with the other horses? Back to the trailer? Is he trying to go somewhere, or just running blind (so scary)?
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 BHW New Catch of the Day
Posts: 9884
Location: Missouri | My young horse just likes to run. He prefers loping to trotting. He also wouldn't stop after going through the timer and we had some accidents and he wasn't even running full speed yet.
I started doing an excersise with him and once we mastered that. I'd start from about the 3rd barrel towards and open gate at a walk, about 5 time and at a trot about the same then finally at a lope and a gallop. I'd pick my spot about 20ft before the gate and stop, then back up.
Not saying he's not a bleeder, but maybe doing something like this might help. Good luck and let me know if you need the excersise I'm refering too. |
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | dashnlotti - 2018-01-11 7:28 AM
Sooo, WHEN and WHERE does he stop?? Does he run back to the warmup area with the other horses? Back to the trailer? Is he trying to go somewhere, or just running blind (so scary)?
He’s not going anywhere, lol. I don’t run him anywhere that doesn’t close the gate. This past weekend just happened to be an arena that they did close gates, but they let five riders in at a time. There are “wings” on each side that people stand in to wait. That’s where he ran up into and then half a$$ attempted to jump the side.
The first(and only) time I ran him thru an open gate, it took a decent distance to get him slowed down... he doesn’t have a plan as to where he’s going, he’s just going.
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Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | Tbred - 2018-01-11 1:50 PM
My young horse just likes to run. He prefers loping to trotting. He also wouldn't stop after going through the timer and we had some accidents and he wasn't even running full speed yet.
I started doing an excersise with him and once we mastered that. I'd start from about the 3rd barrel towards and open gate at a walk, about 5 time and at a trot about the same then finally at a lope and a gallop. I'd pick my spot about 20ft before the gate and stop, then back up.
Not saying he's not a bleeder, but maybe doing something like this might help. Good luck and let me know if you need the excersise I'm refering too.
I would love more info on the exercise. :) thank you. As I said, the vet wants to treat for ulcers before moving further with scoping for bleeding. So I’ll have some time to try other things for sure. |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Honestly, I don't like the vet not scoping for bleeding. It's literally a five minute deal, and before wasting time and money on ulcer meds, might as well scope the stomach too.
I really feel like your horse is probably bleeding and running in panic, with no plan. Please seriously consider putting your foot down, running your horse, and taking him to be scoped within 24 hours afterward. Please. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560
Location: Where the buffalo roam | I had a horse do this same thing and she was NOT a bleeder. The cause was ulcers and the pain must have been terrible because she had always been so honest up to that point. Once we got things corrected she worked fine for the rest of her career. Not to say he isn't a bleeder though. |
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When a horse won’t stop...