|
|
 Veteran
Posts: 124
| I have a horse who seemed a little off balance and sore last Friday. The vet was out this morning, and her initial thought was EPM. She did some balance tests, watched him move and drew blood and sent it off for a test. She is going to check for some kind of protazoa levels (I think). I know nothing about EPM. I've never had a horse that's had it (that I know of). Here's my dilemma.... I bought this horse a year ago to run barrels. on. I was told he was a solid 3D horse with room to improve. I've run him mid 3D but mostly top of the 4D. He's much more push style than I'm used to, and I'm having a hard time getting with him. At what point do I say he's not for me and move on? And now that he most likely has EPM, how hard will it be to resell or trade him? I've had people tell me they'd never buy a horse that had been treated for EPM, and then others have told me that it's not a big deal as long as you catch flare ups early and treat it. IF I would decide to sell him (and I'm not going to even consider it until he's back to his normal self), how much can I realistically expect to get for him? I paid $5500. He's a 10 year old gelding with no dangerous habits. If I'm going to have to take a huge loss on him because of this tentative EPM diagnosis, in the long run it might make more financial sense to keep him and treat flare ups. Hopefully with time I can learn to ride his style. But at some point I'm afraid the stress of worrying about EPM is going to outweigh the joy of owning him. If we clicked and did awesome, maybe this wouldn't bother me so much. But I had already been kicking around the idea that maybe he's not the right horse for me before all of this happened.
I know there are a lot of variables in this situation and everyone is going to have a different opinion, but I really just want to pick a few brains. I don't want to make a knee jerk reaction based off of some bad news, but like I said I had already been having some buyer's remorse over him to begin with just because I can't get used to his style. |
|
| |
|
Go Get Em!
Posts: 13502
   
Location: OH. IO | If it were me and he tests positive,I would treat him,give him time to heal,and feel better.Then I would ride him and see if there are differences in his running and THEN and only after a fair chance would I consider moving on.It would be too soon in the game to make any decisions on his future. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | jake16 - 2018-01-31 3:22 PM If it were me and he tests positive,I would treat him,give him time to heal,and feel better.Then I would ride him and see if there are differences in his running and THEN and only after a fair chance would I consider moving on.It would be too soon in the game to make any decisions on his future.
agree 100%. he might ride completely different after treated (if thats the case) and you might click! |
|
| |
|
 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | What treatment did she recommend for EPM?
Living in north Texas, it's REALLY common to treat for EPM and doesn't throw a flag up at all to most people. You might really enjoy him after he's been treated. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 124
| I honestly can't remember what she said the treatment is..... She said there's one that's the "gold standard" and will run me about $1100. Then she said there's another that's $800. Then there's the cheapest option that's about $250. It's the cheapest because it's not yet FDA approved. She said it used to be a 28 days cycle of antibiotics, but they've since condensed it down to like 3 or 5 larger doses that are spread out. I'm planning on starting with that one because I've had two friends who've had good luck with it.
Like I said I've had zero experience with this. I've been trying to do my own research on the internet, but it's all been pretty overwhelming. Thanks all for your input!
|
|
| |
|
Go Get Em!
Posts: 13502
Location: OH. IO | if you go to the search bar and do a search you will find alot of information on here;) |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | kmfunk22 - 2018-02-01 9:37 PM
I honestly can't remember what she said the treatment is..... She said there's one that's the "gold standard" and will run me about $1100. Then she said there's another that's $800. Then there's the cheapest option that's about $250. It's the cheapest because it's not yet FDA approved. She said it used to be a 28 days cycle of antibiotics, but they've since condensed it down to like 3 or 5 larger doses that are spread out. I'm planning on starting with that one because I've had two friends who've had good luck with it.
Like I said I've had zero experience with this. I've been trying to do my own research on the internet, but it's all been pretty overwhelming. Thanks all for your input!
That sounds very expensive for epm treatment. Rebalance is what I used and it was $110 for a bottle. I got it through my vet. It is FDA approved. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2685
| Nita - 2018-02-01 10:31 PM
kmfunk22 - 2018-02-01 9:37 PM
I honestly can't remember what she said the treatment is..... She said there's one that's the "gold standard" and will run me about $1100. Then she said there's another that's $800. Then there's the cheapest option that's about $250. It's the cheapest because it's not yet FDA approved. She said it used to be a 28 days cycle of antibiotics, but they've since condensed it down to like 3 or 5 larger doses that are spread out. I'm planning on starting with that one because I've had two friends who've had good luck with it.
Like I said I've had zero experience with this. I've been trying to do my own research on the internet, but it's all been pretty overwhelming. Thanks all for your input!
That sounds very expensive for epm treatment. Rebalance is what I used and it was $110 for a bottle. I got it through my vet. It is FDA approved.
that price doesn't sound out of this world. At my clinic we use Marquis and it is $390 for 7 days for a 1200# horse. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 124
| I want to see Marquix is the one she said would run me $1100.... if I remember correctly. Once she gives me the blood tests back I'll make sure and write everything down. I had never used this vet before but called her because she's supposedly the go-to for EPM in our area. She seemed like she was in a hurry when she came out though. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 124
| jake16 - 2018-02-01 9:44 PM
if you go to the search bar and do a search you will find alot of information on here;)
How do I do a search on the forum? I don't see a search bar anywhere... |
|
| |
|
 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| It's been several years since I treated a horse for EPM, but at the time my vet recommended IV Diclazuril. He said they were seeing better results with this treatment. |
|
| |
|
 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | kmfunk22 - 2018-02-02 8:22 AM I want to see Marquix is the one she said would run me $1100.... if I remember correctly. Once she gives me the blood tests back I'll make sure and write everything down. I had never used this vet before but called her because she's supposedly the go-to for EPM in our area. She seemed like she was in a hurry when she came out though.
That is way expensive for the treament. We've treated several and wasn't near that much. I want to say around $400 for the entire treatment. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 124
| She called yesterday and said his titer levels definitely suggest EPM. Marquix is the treatment she said would cost $1100. I opted to start off with a different treatment she said was only about $250, but I can't remember the name of it. I think it started with a D, though. It should get to me tomorrow or the next day. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 124
| kmfunk22 - 2018-02-06 1:31 PM
She called yesterday and said his titer levels definitely suggest EPM. Marquix is the treatment she said would cost $1100. I opted to start off with a different treatment she said was only about $250, but I can't remember the name of it. I think it started with a D, though. It should get to me tomorrow or the next day.
Toltrazuril compounded with DMSO is what she's having sent to me for treatment. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | I would ask the vet about rebalance. It’s super easy to give to a horse (tasty liquid that mine lapped right up) much less expensive and it worked! |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1812
Location: Hernando, Ms | I would also get your horse on a good Vitamin E. I'm treating mine now. I'm using the one from MVP. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 124
| chaseingcans - 2018-02-07 3:01 PM
I would also get your horse on a good Vitamin E. I'm treating mine now. I'm using the one from MVP.
I started him on Elevate natural vitamin E 3 days ago. He got his first dose of Toltrazuril with DMSO today. My vet seems highly confident he should be good as new in 28 days. |
|
| |
|
 No Tune in a Bucket
Posts: 2935
Location: Texas | Nita - 2018-02-01 10:31 PM kmfunk22 - 2018-02-01 9:37 PM I honestly can't remember what she said the treatment is..... She said there's one that's the "gold standard" and will run me about $1100. Then she said there's another that's $800. Then there's the cheapest option that's about $250. It's the cheapest because it's not yet FDA approved. She said it used to be a 28 days cycle of antibiotics, but they've since condensed it down to like 3 or 5 larger doses that are spread out. I'm planning on starting with that one because I've had two friends who've had good luck with it. Like I said I've had zero experience with this. I've been trying to do my own research on the internet, but it's all been pretty overwhelming. Thanks all for your input! That sounds very expensive for epm treatment. Rebalance is what I used and it was $110 for a bottle. I got it through my vet. It is FDA approved.
Rebalance is what my son treated one of their roping horses with. Horse was not "officially" confirmed positive for EPM but had all of the symptoms including the muscle deterioration. A vet friend told us that every horse that had been in Texas more than 6 months would test positive for EPM. Either way the Rebalance was not going to hurt him either way. We could see improvement within a couple of weeks. I haven't asked about him lately but assume he is doing better. |
|
| |
|
 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Bump |
|
| |
|
 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| RocketPilot - 2018-02-07 10:51 PM
Nita - 2018-02-01 10:31 PM kmfunk22 - 2018-02-01 9:37 PM I honestly can't remember what she said the treatment is..... She said there's one that's the "gold standard" and will run me about $1100. Then she said there's another that's $800. Then there's the cheapest option that's about $250. It's the cheapest because it's not yet FDA approved. She said it used to be a 28 days cycle of antibiotics, but they've since condensed it down to like 3 or 5 larger doses that are spread out. I'm planning on starting with that one because I've had two friends who've had good luck with it. Like I said I've had zero experience with this. I've been trying to do my own research on the internet, but it's all been pretty overwhelming. Thanks all for your input! That sounds very expensive for epm treatment. Rebalance is what I used and it was $110 for a bottle. I got it through my vet. It is FDA approved.
That's very interesting about every horse that's been in Texas for more than 6 months... did your friend say why? I've never heard of that before. |
|
| |
|
Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Defiantly get him feeling good again and ride him some more before you make decisions about selling.
Think about being neurological, not quite being able to feel your limbs right or balance as well as you’d like. Would you be able to run at your full potential? While carrying someone? I believe the very early signs of EPM are performance based. I treated one several years ago (same treatment you’re giving btw) who was tripping occasionally in the hind end, but had gone from solid 3D to 4d/5d. We called the vet out thinking hind end soreness. Treated for EPM and he rebounded beautifully.
We treated him again a couple years later, that was early spring and he just wasn’t legging up and working like normal, really wanting to fling his butt around a turn if I remember correctly. Same deal, treated and back to normal.
Once they have it, they always have it in their bloodstream- but so do a pile of other horses out there (I want to say I’ve seen a figure as high as 80% would blood test positive). It becomes an issue when it crosses the blood/neuro barrier and gets into the central nervous system - titer levels go up in that case and testing against known levels can determine an “active” case. There’s really no way of guessing what might make a horse develop and active infection again, but many guess stress. The winter/spring my gelding relapsed was tough weather wise - very very cold and a lot of freeze/thaw, he’d coliced on me before during weather swings so I suspect that stressed him enough. |
|
| |
|
Sparklin Cowgirl
Posts: 4379
| There are a couple great EPM support and education groups on facebook. Everyone here already threw out some great ideas.
|
|
| |
|
Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i had one would clock spent thousand of dollars injecting and injecting fusing. went to anther vet and he failed the neuro test, but blood work at uc davis came back neg, that vet i had to call every day fr a week and half to ask him what to do next he never gave me anything to go on. so called the vet in florida and we sent blood to her, it was very low positive so we treated within 10 days he was acting his self. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 124
| I got second and third opinions from two other vets who did not think it was EPM. I treated him for it anyway, and he did go back to normal. But he was back to normal after another the second vet injected his coffins and I had shoes put back on him. I'll never know for sure if it was the EPM or the injections that did it, but he passed the neuro exam with the second vet with flying colors before the EPM treatment. Anyway, as soon as I had the all clear from vet #2 I sold him. |
|
| |
|
My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Bump |
|
| |
|
 Take a Picture
Posts: 12837
| First I am going to do my survey. Do you have barn cats? The paint horse in my avatar has been treated at least five times for EPM. He ran at the Woeld Paint Show and was so body sore but he is tough as a yellow yard dog and has a lot of heart. He was Reserve World Champion in poles and top 10 in barrels. Getting him injected really sets it off. My vet NEVER prescribes Marquis. I have used Rebalance (think that is the 3 day one) with very good results. I have also used Baycox which I think is 14 days. Every horse is different and meds seem to work differently. I don’t even take mine to the vet any more. My vet knows that I know what to look for. I might add that the last time we treated my paint horse we used Oroquin or some spelling with very good success. This stuff comes out of Florida. All I have mentioned cost around $200. I would treat the horse and see where you stand in a month or two before making a decision. Also give him a vacation in this heat! I have had broodmares get EPM and I would not say they were particularly under stress |
|
| |
|
Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | kmfunk22 - 2018-01-31 2:13 PM I have a horse who seemed a little off balance and sore last Friday. The vet was out this morning, and her initial thought was EPM. She did some balance tests, watched him move and drew blood and sent it off for a test. She is going to check for some kind of protazoa levels (I think). I know nothing about EPM. I've never had a horse that's had it (that I know of). Here's my dilemma.... I bought this horse a year ago to run barrels. on. I was told he was a solid 3D horse with room to improve. I've run him mid 3D but mostly top of the 4D. He's much more push style than I'm used to, and I'm having a hard time getting with him. At what point do I say he's not for me and move on? And now that he most likely has EPM, how hard will it be to resell or trade him? I've had people tell me they'd never buy a horse that had been treated for EPM, and then others have told me that it's not a big deal as long as you catch flare ups early and treat it. IF I would decide to sell him (and I'm not going to even consider it until he's back to his normal self), how much can I realistically expect to get for him? I paid $5500. He's a 10 year old gelding with no dangerous habits. If I'm going to have to take a huge loss on him because of this tentative EPM diagnosis, in the long run it might make more financial sense to keep him and treat flare ups. Hopefully with time I can learn to ride his style. But at some point I'm afraid the stress of worrying about EPM is going to outweigh the joy of owning him. If we clicked and did awesome, maybe this wouldn't bother me so much. But I had already been kicking around the idea that maybe he's not the right horse for me before all of this happened. I know there are a lot of variables in this situation and everyone is going to have a different opinion, but I really just want to pick a few brains. I don't want to make a knee jerk reaction based off of some bad news, but like I said I had already been having some buyer's remorse over him to begin with just because I can't get used to his style.
Success of recooperating from EPM is highly dependent on how quick you treat (with an effective product). That is, if it’s actually EPM. There are many products on the market (compounded) that are popular because they’re cheap. Cheap ain’t cheap if it doesn’t work ;-) treat your horse, give him at least one month off and reevaluate his Proprioception. As long as he comes back and is normal, selling him shouldn’t be a problem. I haven’t had one that didn’t come back to his normal competition level. |
|
| |
|
Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | streakysox - 2019-07-09 1:13 AM
First I am going to do my survey. Do you have barn cats? The paint horse in my avatar has been treated at least five times for EPM. He ran at the Woeld Paint Show and was so body sore but he is tough as a yellow yard dog and has a lot of heart. He was Reserve World Champion in poles and top 10 in barrels. Getting him injected really sets it off. My vet NEVER prescribes Marquis. I have used Rebalance (think that is the 3 day one) with very good results. I have also used Baycox which I think is 14 days. Every horse is different and meds seem to work differently. I don’t even take mine to the vet any more. My vet knows that I know what to look for. I might add that the last time we treated my paint horse we used Oroquin or some spelling with very good success. This stuff comes out of Florida. All I have mentioned cost around $200. I would treat the horse and see where you stand in a month or two before making a decision. Also give him a vacation in this heat! I have had broodmares get EPM and I would not say they were particularly under stress
I wouldn’t necessarily blame it n thrbarn cats. While cats do carry a protozoa (the one that causes toxiplasmosis ),it sounds like what you’re using is the reason for your numerous re-treats. Rebalance doesn’t factually kill the protozoa, it makes it slows down it’s reproduction. Baycoxx, alone, especially for 2 weeks, isn’t very effective. 2 weeks on any product isn’t going to cut it. |
|
| |
|
| I do have not barn cats. I had an outside horse come up with possible EPM. Nearly everything I had rode in many years had been raised on our place and I had never dealt with EPM. Anyway, I treated said outside horse and it was all good. I was shook when I heard "possible EPM", but after I asked around I found out EPM is not uncommon and it's treated for quite a bit. As the above poster said, didn't raise red flags for people. |
|
| |
What would you do? (EPM)