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Member
Posts: 24
| They say you get what you pay for, but is that true when it comes to sires? If money weren't an issue would you pay more for a colt from a well known sire than you would for a colt with the same or similar bloodlines and conformation, but without the famous daddy? Have breeders out there seen a benefit for paying more than twice for the same bloodlines just to have the famous sire? I am considering taking the plunge and forking out serious cash for an amazing stallion, but it is scary! |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
  
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | emsher - 2018-02-05 12:45 PM They say you get what you pay for, but is that true when it comes to sires? If money weren't an issue would you pay more for a colt from a well known sire than you would for a colt with the same or similar bloodlines and conformation, but without the famous daddy? Have breeders out there seen a benefit for paying more than twice for the same bloodlines just to have the famous sire? I am considering taking the plunge and forking out serious cash for an amazing stallion, but it is scary!
For a proven, winning horse it doesn't matter how they are bred (unless a mare or stallion). But when buying a prospect, I say spend as much as you an afford. It really does matter-certain bloodlines are just naturals at certain events. |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | Every year it gets tougher to market a prospect that doesn’t have proven bloodlines. I have won a lot on horses that I picked, not for pedigree, but on conformation and presence. Most people are willing to pay a premium for a good pedigree over a lower priced, nice prospect.
Look at the horses that have sold and their prices on BHW vs. the horses that are still listed. Look at the hits on popular bred horses over unknown pedigrees. |
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
 
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Try doing some research. I always try to get the most bang for my buck. I try to find stallions that are on their way up. But are under-priced for what they are. Here's a bit of research for those of you interested in finding a good stallion for a decent price. Go to the race results for a local futurity and print it off. Then research the stallion and write down his stud fee beside the horses that won money in the top 10 or 20. I did that with a local futurity that one of my home raised babies placed in. My stallion stands for $1000 without the available merit discounts. There was only one other stallion who had a baby place in the top 10 of any of the goes or the average with the same stud fee. The rest were FG, DTF, etc... many thousands of dollars more. How much do you want to invest in a foal only to be outrun by a horse by a stallion that is WAY less money to invest in?
Edited by OregonBR 2018-02-05 2:35 PM
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | OregonBR - 2018-02-05 3:34 PM Try doing some research. I always try to get the most bang for my buck. I try to find stallions that are on their way up. But are under-priced for what they are. Here's a bit of research for those of you interested in finding a good stallion for a decent price. Go to the race results for a local futurity and print it off. Then research the stallion and write down his stud fee beside the horses that won money in the top 10 or 20. I did that with a local futurity that one of my home raised babies placed in. My stallion stands for $1000 without the available merit discounts. There was only one other stallion who had a baby place in the top 10 of any of the goes or the average with the same stud fee. The rest were FG, DTF, etc... many thousands of dollars more. How much do you want to invest in a foal only to be outrun by a horse by a stallion that is WAY less money to invest in?
so two out of dozens that won money were low priced.
Seems like an anomoly, not the norm.
Am I missing something?
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | There were 100 others in the futurity that didn't even place. They were by top end stallions too. Still an anomaly?
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I think the mare has everything to do with it. I know, you've probably heard that a million times. But it's true. At the same time, not all stallions are created equally even if they have the same sire and same maternal grandsire. So on that hand, its not that you get what you pay for, but realize that some are more expensive for a reason...again, mare power... Some are cheap because they are young and haven't produced yet... which are a gamble but can pay off well. Some stand for 7000 and you may get a dud, but, odds are less that it will happen.
I haven't bred to anything over a $2000 advertised stud fee yet. I bred the mare who filled my WPRA permit to First Down French, who was I think $1250 at the time I booked, and is still under $2000 this year. I personally think hes a phenomenal stallion but he's definitely younger and at the year I bred to him didn't have anything old enough to compete yet. She had a filly in 2014. December of her 3YO year she won open 1D money her second time to enter a race. She's run in the open 1D several times since then. She hit a barrel to clock in the 1D one of the gos of the futurity I entered her in.. I've turned down offers to sell her. Did I need to breed to FG himself to get her? Nope.
On the flip side, I am very picky about the stallions I choose within my price range. There are so many sons of "such and such" who stand at an affordable rate that probably would make better geldings. So it takes weeding through all the extra to find the promising ones who are on the way up.
To answer the original question- if money were no option, I would breed to the absolute best I could find. In the real world, I breed to the absolute best in my price range. Which, if you have solid mares, you can get some really nice performers from horses who stand for affordable rates. I don't feel like I've been disadvantaged or slighted at all by not having a direct son or daughter of a "such and such." But I would sure gladly take one once I can afford to :P |
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| There are a lot of factors involved here. Chiefly, is this a prospect you would be keeping as a stallion for breeding purposes and would want to market him as such? If so, the famous sire might give him a "leg up" on marketability.
I am pretty picky about certain bloodlines, so depending on who the famous sire is, I may completely overlook that prospect and choose the not so famous bloodlines, if all other factors were the same (conformation, mind, personality, maternal line, etc.). However, if the famous sire is one I am partial to and I were in the market for a stallion, I would gladly pay extra for that prospect.
I would not, however, buy an averagely bred stallion just to have a stallion if I couldn't afford the son of the famous sire, if that's the one I really wanted. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Bloodlines are only half of the equation. Training is is the other. That being said if the stallion is not famous but has other potentally good babies out there I am fine with a son of instead of the famous stud. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| If it it was you want, you've done your homework researching to make sure it's a good choice for both you and your mare, and you can afford all fees involved if things don't go as plan then DONT for a second feel scared or guilty. It is your money spend it to make yourself happy! |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | People into breeding horses for profit don't breed a $1000 mare to a $6000 stud. It's stupid. The foal isn't worth even the cost of breeding. So if you don't have a top quality mare, don't spend many times her worth on breeding her only to get a $1000 baby you paid $6000 plus breeding expenses. But if you want the foal for yourself and only yourself. Not intending to sell expecting someone to pay out the nose for it. Then go for it. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-05 7:39 PM
If it it was you want, you've done your homework researching to make sure it's a good choice for both you and your mare, and you can afford all fees involved if things don't go as plan then DONT for a second feel scared or guilty. It is your money spend it to make yourself happy!
This.
The stallion has to complement the mare. IMO looking at results and who the sire’s are is great - but you need to be looking at the other half too and their bloodlines, competition results, and ideally confirmation of both parents and the offspring - did the mare have a longer top line that the stud brought in a bit, did one improve on weakness in the other? And then think long and hard about your mares weaknesses and which studs seem to improve on them.
Anybody with a mare and money can buy a stud fee and make a baby (yes I realize stallion owners can opt to not breed a mare) - the people who are good at it put a lot of thought into making the magical crosses that rock the industry. |
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Should you for famous sire?