|
|
Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
   
| Who else is in this predicament? Did you have problems getting your stud fee refunded? Anyone want to recommend an equine attorney in case it comes to this? The contract clearly states live foal guaranteed. A substitute mare can be used if a mare fails to conceive but there are no provision in the contract for the stallion owner to substitute another stallion. I'm not interested in another stud they may/may not have to offer.
 |
|
| |
|
 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
 
Location: Texas | Most contracts say if the stud dies or becomes unfit for use you get the stud fee less the booking fee returned.
Does the contract not say that in it? |
|
| |
|
  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | First or second year of the contract? |
|
| |
|
 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Have you even talked to the owner of the stallion yet? Dont panic just yet untill you have talked this over with the owner. |
|
| |
|
Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| Contact has been made with the stud owner. I will leave it at that. This is a rebreed because of a semen quality problem which I have seen with my own eyes under a microscope within minutes of his collection. A vet I use has also received bad semen from this same stallion so I hauled the mare to the stud farm to use "fresh" semen. They may/may not have offered another stud that is also live cover only. Hell no to that for multiple reasons including increased risk of disease transmission. |
|
| |
|
Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| I strongly advise anyone breeding a mare to contact the vet that collects that stallion and confirm semen quality. If they don't use a vet, either find a different stallion or ask to go look at semen under a microscope when they collect him. I know of multiple studs highly advertised that have semen quality problems and low odds of conception. The stud owners are collecting your $$$ and blame your mare or blame your vet. I think if your mare does not get in foal after multiple attempts, you should have the option for a refund of your stud fee (minus booking fee and collection fees). I'm talking about mares that have been cultured (clean), vaccinated, and have negative test results for herpes.
Edited by quickdraw 2018-02-05 7:10 PM
|
|
| |
|
Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| The contract does not address if the stallion dies but it does guarantee a live foal. |
|
| |
|
 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Sometimes I've found that you are at the mercy of the stud owner in situations like this. Really, any situation that arises when you experience something that isn't in black and white on the contract. I've had some owners take excellent care of me and do what they can within reason to help me out. Others have left me out to dry. Unfortunately in these situations all you can do is walk away with a lesson learned. There are some big name facilities I won't use again or recommend. The good ones will get my praise far and wide.
I hope this all works out for you. I would also suggest speaking directly with the owner, as sometimes they are a little more easy to work with than the farm managers who likely don't have the option of making exceptions or decisions on matters like this. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 11
Location: 97527 | Maybe they would be willing to give you a foal? I know I would do that if my Stallion died and I had no frozen semen available. |
|
| |
|
Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| I would also recommend you confirm the stallion of your choice has been 5 panel tested and is negative. Some of the PM's I have received indicate that at least one stud is standing to the public and is passing down HERDA. |
|
| |
|
 Saint Stacey
| Live foal when it comes to rebreeds tend to be in a different class. There’s a lot more wiggle room for a stallion owner to get out of refunding your money. |
|
| |
|
 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | quickdraw - 2018-02-06 1:53 AM I would also recommend you confirm the stallion of your choice has been 5 panel tested and is negative. Some of the PM's I have received indicate that at least one stud is standing to the public and is passing down HERDA.
It is our responsibility as mare owners to know what we are getting into and check the studs out before signing contracts.
Then make an intelligent decision on whether you want to also carry on a disease.............................
|
|
| |
|
 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| As far as a lawyer goes, the $5,000 retainer charged by most will likely exceed the breed fee, with very few exceptions, and none that I can think of that would apply. I realize you are probably ****ed off, but realisticly you are only going to cost yourself more money fighting it. Hopefully the stud owner does the right thing, and adheres to the contract.
Edited by Whiteboy 2018-02-06 9:15 AM
|
|
| |
|
Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| 3 Cans, an ethical stud owner would not continue to breed a stud they know is passing down a disease but these days it is harder to find people with any ethics whatsoever.
***After turning down "substitute" stallions and a lot of discussion, the owner of the dead stallion slipped up and said they have frozen semen at a particular vet clinic. So if you are in this same situation, be sure and ask if they have any frozen semen before you settle for something you didn't want or pay for. |
|
| |
|
That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| quickdraw - 2018-02-06 9:02 AM 3 Cans, an ethical stud owner would not continue to breed a stud they know is passing down a disease but these days it is harder to find people with any ethics whatsoever. ***After turning down "substitute" stallions and a lot of discussion, the owner of the dead stallion slipped up and said they have frozen semen at a particular vet clinic. So if you are in this same situation, be sure and ask if they have any frozen semen before you settle for something you didn't want or pay for.
The frozen semen is good news. Who is the stud? |
|
| |
|
Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | quickdraw - 2018-02-06 10:02 AM 3 Cans, an ethical stud owner would not continue to breed a stud they know is passing down a disease but these days it is harder to find people with any ethics whatsoever. ***After turning down "substitute" stallions and a lot of discussion, the owner of the dead stallion slipped up and said they have frozen semen at a particular vet clinic. So if you are in this same situation, be sure and ask if they have any frozen semen before you settle for something you didn't want or pay for.
Oh I agree, but as long as the stallions have get that produce, people are going to breed to them and hope for the best. And, as long as AQHA etc. lets them register them. |
|
| |
|
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | quickdraw - 2018-02-05 10:53 PM
I would also recommend you confirm the stallion of your choice has been 5 panel tested and is negative. Some of the PM's I have received indicate that at least one stud is standing to the public and is passing down HERDA.
Is your mare tested? |
|
| |
|
 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | It happened to me. Foal never stood, and I was owed a rebreed, BUT, the stud was no longer available so I took a breeding to another stud offered. Worked out OK.
As far as 5 panel testing, call AQHA. They'll tell you results. |
|
| |
|
 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20904
Location: LouLouVille, OK | I would think any decent person would just refund your money if the stud died and they had no semen for you.....
As far as breeding one with HERDA... there is a well known stud out there breeding that is N/HERDA (more then 1 ) ...so it's up to the mare owner if the mare is N/N If they want to take a chance....It's not unethical... If I liked the stud and had a N/N mare... wouldn't bother me... IMHO
But I am also breeding for myself... No one else 
Edited by cindyt 2018-02-06 3:21 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| quickdraw - 2018-02-05 7:12 PM
The contract does not address if the stallion dies but it does guarantee a live foal.
In my case the vet was as big a liar as the stallion owner. Check Aqha for number of foals registered per year. When the vet and owner are telling you that they have bred 50 horses and have a 90% conception rate. You see that there have been 7 foals registered. Somehow the numbers don't quite add up.
By the way Quickdraw I PM'ed you the number of foals registered from the AQHA site. |
|
| |
|
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | quickdraw - 2018-02-05 5:09 PM
I strongly advise anyone breeding a mare to contact the vet that collects that stallion and confirm semen quality. If they don't use a vet, either find a different stallion or ask to go look at semen under a microscope when they collect him. I know of multiple studs highly advertised that have semen quality problems and low odds of conception. The stud owners are collecting your $$$ and blame your mare or blame your vet. I think if your mare does not get in foal after multiple attempts, you should have the option for a refund of your stud fee (minus booking fee and collection fees). I'm talking about mares that have been cultured (clean), vaccinated, and have negative test results for herpes.
Speaking from experience, it's not always the stallion that is at fault. It's unbelievable the number of "vets" that don't know sic'em from com'ere about breeding mares and they will take their clients money for months with no pregnancy. I had a customer ship semen 3 times in one season and the mare didn't conceive. Part of the problem was the vet would wait to order semen and the mare ovulated before they got it. That happened 2x. The mare was ovulating on Sunday. So I talked them into ordering it for Saturday delivery. The mare still didn't conceive. So the owner brought her to me. Where we assumed since she had a clean culture, she was clean. We tried breeding her one cycle. When she still didn't conceive we bred her and treated her 24 hours later in case she was dirty. Low and behold, she took and produced a nice filly the next year. It shouldn't happen but it does. So not knowing what the whole story is on this, there is no way to take one side over the other.
My contract says if the mare doesn't conceive in the second year of the contract and the stallion either becomes infertile or dies the contract is complete. If it happens in the first year of the contract I would refund all but the booking fee and any money used to perform acts the customer needed from me. i.e. shipping.
I've stressed over and over that people need to read and understand the contract. There are contracts out there being used by people that I don't like the terms of and I won't sign them. So I don't breed to that stud. Another experience I had was with a jerk that had no contract. He decided after one cover my mares where infertile and refused to breed them another cycle. There was nothing I could do about that. I had to eat the money I gave him. So you learn the lessons the universe tries to teach you and move on.
Edited by OregonBR 2018-02-06 5:07 PM
|
|
| |
|
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | quickdraw - 2018-02-06 7:02 AM
3 Cans, an ethical stud owner would not continue to breed a stud they know is passing down a disease but these days it is harder to find people with any ethics whatsoever.
***After turning down "substitute" stallions and a lot of discussion, the owner of the dead stallion slipped up and said they have frozen semen at a particular vet clinic. So if you are in this same situation, be sure and ask if they have any frozen semen before you settle for something you didn't want or pay for.
This is absolutely false. HERDA and GBED are only a problem when both side are carriers and both sides give it to the embryo. If you understand genetics there's no reason a stallion or mare with either of these or both of them as heterozygous genes, not be bred.
|
|
| |
|
Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| My mares are tested, cultured, and vaccinated BEFORE they are bred. I won't breed anything that I know will pass down a problem. WhiteBoy is right about the atty fees but it is the principal of the matter. What I can assure you is this: I may not get my money out of the owner, but I will get my money's worth x 10+. She will **** sure lose a lot more than I am. ;) I didn't pay for a Lexus to be given a Ford Escort that hasn't been proven to run. I have invested a lot of thought and experience into bloodlines and only want very specific bloodlines. If I owned a stud that died, I wouldn't rest until refunds were in the mail. |
|
| |
Stud fee paid in full. Stud dies. Live foal guarantee.