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 Regular
Posts: 52
| *******EDITED***** videos of her first barrel attached
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
First video is of her ducking. Second video was taken just over a week earlier and was how her first consistently was prior to her ducking it.
https://youtu.be/LJe6j_tO9_4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=urUp0lFTwpc
Edited by kk_sue 2018-03-15 5:33 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 141
| kk_sue - 2018-03-15 1:08 PM
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time.
I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all.
The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin.
A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest.
It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
Thats a big ol' wall of text, I tried to break it up... |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| kk_sue - 2018-03-15 11:08 AM
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
My 4 year old gelding had a similar " Colicky twitch" in the flank couple times but it was when I let him eat to much green grass. Mine are not on pasture but when green grass comes I was letting them nibble on it.. Both times I let him graze by hand maybe 15 minutes but it was to much next day, seemed a lot like your mare. SO now he only gets to nibble few mouth fulls and thats it. With what you describe, have you had a repro exam done? Before I used Regumate on my good mare, she had the most HORRIBLE heats. Looked very much like colic , she had back soreness, etc.. She never worked any different on the pattern but she was 13 and very stoic. I'm wondering if she has some female issues going on??? Since being on Regumate, my mare is 100000000% better. Zero back soreness etc. |
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Regular
Posts: 52
| FLITASTIC - 2018-03-15 12:42 PM
kk_sue - 2018-03-15 11:08 AM
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
My 4 year old gelding had a similar " Colicky twitch" in the flank couple times but it was when I let him eat to much green grass. Mine are not on pasture but when green grass comes I was letting them nibble on it.. Both times I let him graze by hand maybe 15 minutes but it was to much next day, seemed a lot like your mare. SO now he only gets to nibble few mouth fulls and thats it. With what you describe, have you had a repro exam done? Before I used Regumate on my good mare, she had the most HORRIBLE heats. Looked very much like colic , she had back soreness, etc.. She never worked any different on the pattern but she was 13 and very stoic. I'm wondering if she has some female issues going on??? Since being on Regumate, my mare is 100000000% better. Zero back soreness etc.
The twitch wasn’t in the flank area it was up high and back by the hamstrings could it still be the same thing? I did have a repro exam done on her because she acted in heat constantly. One ovary was a little large. She was on progesterone implants then was switched to the weekly shot of Altrenogest. She has acted much better ever since |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | Some thing to think about..
I had a gelding with sore hamstrings. Injected his hocks (upper and lower)less than a week later his hamstring soreness is GONE.
Also look into
Pssm
kissing spines.
Saddle soreness.
Hope you find it and it's and easy fix. |
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| I didn’t read all the other responses, but wanted to share that when that started with my four year old years ago we figured out we had to keep him out further...like in I’d send him down the middle of the pen. As he started really hunting his first barrel, he was getting in too much...then, he’d get there and turn too quick...maybe panicking that he didn’t have enough room? Who knows..,but an old timer with vast experience said keep him out, go down the middle and he’ll stop that...he did and was a bad-lad as he progressed into a mature horse. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| kk_sue - 2018-03-15 11:52 AM
FLITASTIC - 2018-03-15 12:42 PM
kk_sue - 2018-03-15 11:08 AM
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
My 4 year old gelding had a similar " Colicky twitch" in the flank couple times but it was when I let him eat to much green grass. Mine are not on pasture but when green grass comes I was letting them nibble on it.. Both times I let him graze by hand maybe 15 minutes but it was to much next day, seemed a lot like your mare. SO now he only gets to nibble few mouth fulls and thats it. With what you describe, have you had a repro exam done? Before I used Regumate on my good mare, she had the most HORRIBLE heats. Looked very much like colic , she had back soreness, etc.. She never worked any different on the pattern but she was 13 and very stoic. I'm wondering if she has some female issues going on??? Since being on Regumate, my mare is 100000000% better. Zero back soreness etc.
The twitch wasn’t in the flank area it was up high and back by the hamstrings could it still be the same thing? I did have a repro exam done on her because she acted in heat constantly. One ovary was a little large. She was on progesterone implants then was switched to the weekly shot of Altrenogest. She has acted much better ever since
Glad you mention the weekly shots. I asked my vet about this option because its very time consuming to have to put on gloves and give the regumate orally every day. SHe said she did not recommend the weekly shots to performance horses because it can make them VERY sore and not wanting to perform????? WOnder if thats part of it? |
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Regular
Posts: 52
| FLITASTIC - 2018-03-15 1:03 PM
kk_sue - 2018-03-15 11:52 AM
FLITASTIC - 2018-03-15 12:42 PM
kk_sue - 2018-03-15 11:08 AM
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
My 4 year old gelding had a similar " Colicky twitch" in the flank couple times but it was when I let him eat to much green grass. Mine are not on pasture but when green grass comes I was letting them nibble on it.. Both times I let him graze by hand maybe 15 minutes but it was to much next day, seemed a lot like your mare. SO now he only gets to nibble few mouth fulls and thats it. With what you describe, have you had a repro exam done? Before I used Regumate on my good mare, she had the most HORRIBLE heats. Looked very much like colic , she had back soreness, etc.. She never worked any different on the pattern but she was 13 and very stoic. I'm wondering if she has some female issues going on??? Since being on Regumate, my mare is 100000000% better. Zero back soreness etc.
The twitch wasn’t in the flank area it was up high and back by the hamstrings could it still be the same thing? I did have a repro exam done on her because she acted in heat constantly. One ovary was a little large. She was on progesterone implants then was switched to the weekly shot of Altrenogest. She has acted much better ever since
Glad you mention the weekly shots. I asked my vet about this option because its very time consuming to have to put on gloves and give the regumate orally every day. SHe said she did not recommend the weekly shots to performance horses because it can make them VERY sore and not wanting to perform????? WOnder if thats part of it?
I had never heard that before? Definitely going to bring that up with my vet. I definitely don’t mind the extra time if it would help her. I was just under the impression it did the exact same thing. |
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Regular
Posts: 52
| runs4fun - 2018-03-15 1:00 PM
I didn’t read all the other responses, but wanted to share that when that started with my four year old years ago we figured out we had to keep him out further...like in I’d send him down the middle of the pen. As he started really hunting his first barrel, he was getting in too much...then, he’d get there and turn too quick...maybe panicking that he didn’t have enough room? Who knows..,but an old timer with vast experience said keep him out, go down the middle and he’ll stop that...he did and was a bad-lad as he progressed into a mature horse.
I have been treating it as a training issue or whatever you would call that it just seems odd to me that she would nail it every time the all of a sudden over night just not even turn it. I take have always taken her in pretty wide I don’t like just running straight at the barrel. |
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Regular
Posts: 52
| imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 1:00 PM
Some thing to think about..
I had a gelding with sore hamstrings. Injected his hocks (upper and lower)less than a week later his hamstring soreness is GONE.
Also look into
Pssm
kissing spines.
Saddle soreness.
Hope you find it and it's and easy fix.
It doesn’t seem like saddle soreness because it’s behind where the saddle sits but who knows. I debated getting X-rays of her back to check for kissing spine but now I’m wondering if she was just out in her back that bad? Because after chiropractor she doesn’t seem sore at all |
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Veteran
Posts: 141
| imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 2:00 PM
Some thing to think about..
I had a gelding with sore hamstrings. Injected his hocks (upper and lower)less than a week later his hamstring soreness is GONE.
Also look into
Pssm
kissing spines.
Saddle soreness.
Hope you find it and it's and easy fix.
Could any of these cause a horse to turn hard in front of the 1st then go on and run 2nd and 3rd perfectly? |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| joemama - 2018-03-15 2:36 PM imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 2:00 PM Some thing to think about.. I had a gelding with sore hamstrings. Injected his hocks (upper and lower)less than a week later his hamstring soreness is GONE. Also look into Pssm kissing spines. Saddle soreness. Hope you find it and it's and easy fix. Could any of these cause a horse to turn hard in front of the 1st then go on and run 2nd and 3rd perfectly?
ETA- YES....if a horse is sore on one side they could duck the first and then turn the others perfectly.
Edited by lopnaround 2018-03-15 2:48 PM
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| lopnaround - 2018-03-15 2:47 PM
joemama - 2018-03-15 2:36 PM imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 2:00 PM Some thing to think about.. I had a gelding with sore hamstrings. Injected his hocks (upper and lower)less than a week later his hamstring soreness is GONE. Also look into Pssm kissing spines. Saddle soreness. Hope you find it and it's and easy fix. Could any of these cause a horse to turn hard in front of the 1st then go on and run 2nd and 3rd perfectly?
ETA- YES....if a horse is sore on one side they could duck the first and then turn the others perfectly.
Why would a horse sit pretty darn hard in front of the barrel vs running by it?
I could see a soreness issue causing the horse to run by the barrel but not sit hard and turn in front of it.
Could it because they know the soreness shows when pushing out of the barrel?
Im not arguing, just curious and never seen this. |
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| That's a good question...you would think if he was sitting down hard that is joints aren't hurting. What about bleeding? Have you had him scoped? |
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Location: South Georgia | I have no answers, but I have empathy for your situation. There is nothing worse than trying to interpret their behavior and fix their issues without success.
You mention a move and a potentially stressful situation....have you thought about ulcers? That may be the painful belly and pawing in the pasture? I'd give her a couple weeks of omeprazole (I buy Abler Abgard paste bc its WAY cheaper than Ulcergard) and see if it helps. If it does, I'd finish off with another two weeks--4 total.
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Location: Lost in the swamps | Yes!!
I've seen horses with all of the above exhibit this behavior. As well as the kissing spine show up as what was thought to be si issues, and thought to be pssm. Horse couldn't turn first. But Inhaled second and third. Finally the third vet x rated the horse's back. Also seen a horse with a hock chip duck his barrel. And a horse with an ill fitting saddle. What it is they ancicipate the pain. So they "hurry and get it over with" if you know what I mean?
Edited by imturnin3 2018-03-15 3:32 PM
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| lopnaround - 2018-03-15 2:08 PM
That's a good question...you would think if he was sitting down hard that is joints aren't hurting. What about bleeding? Have you had him scoped?
I have not had her scoped. The thought had crossed my mind but I wasn’t sure if it would cause this. My other mare is a bleeder but never even showed any sign until she came out of the arena bleeding so I wasn’t sure what signs they normally show if they’re bleeders. |
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| horsegirl - 2018-03-15 2:18 PM
I have no answers, but I have empathy for your situation. There is nothing worse than trying to interpret their behavior and fix their issues without success.
You mention a move and a potentially stressful situation....have you thought about ulcers? That may be the painful belly and pawing in the pasture? I'd give her a couple weeks of omeprazole (I buy Abler Abgard paste bc its WAY cheaper than Ulcergard) and see if it helps. If it does, I'd finish off with another two weeks--4 total.
I was thinking ulcers with her not wanting me around her belly. She hasn’t lost weight or been off food but it’s definitely a possibility. That’s why I started her on zesterra. I’ve done omeprazole before without much luck |
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| imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 2:18 PM
Yes!!
I've seen horses with all of the above exhibit this behavior. As well as the kissing spine show up as what was thought to be si issues, and thought to be pssm. Horse couldn't turn first. But Inhaled second and third
I’m not super familiar with pssm. Is it easy to test for? Can it be treated and managed if that is it? |
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Location: Lost in the swamps | UC Davis does testing. There is pssm 1 and 2. Treatment involves diet changes and medications. |
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Location: Lost in the swamps | kk_sue - 2018-03-15 2:14 PM
imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 1:00 PM
Some thing to think about..
I had a gelding with sore hamstrings. Injected his hocks (upper and lower)less than a week later his hamstring soreness is GONE.
Also look into
Pssm
kissing spines.
Saddle soreness.
Hope you find it and it's and easy fix.
It doesn’t seem like saddle soreness because it’s behind where the saddle sits but who knows. I debated getting X-rays of her back to check for kissing spine but now I’m wondering if she was just out in her back that bad? Because after chiropractor she doesn’t seem sore at all
The chiro we use who is also a vet NEVER picked up the kissing spine on the one particular horse. The owner spent thousand thinking it was a training issue. And more on vets. She had a hunch after talking to someone who's horse just under went the surgery. She finally demanded a back x Ray after vets told her that was probably not his problem "don't even bother" and sure enough it was there and it was bad. |
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| I would highly suggest getting her back x-rayed and this is why. I have a gelding with "mild" kissing spine which I believe also had some soft tissue damage also. No issues ever with him until he took a bad spill.
His symptoms were very similar, he was extremely tight in his back. My vet who is also a chiro said adjustments would likely help but his back is so tight, the adjustments wouldn't stick. He was cinchy and I could barely run a brush over his back because his back was hard as a rock. This was behind where my saddle sits. I also would have back spasms and often had them when massaged. Again this horse never refused a barrel but his turning style was off. He was heavier in his turns, not dropping the same. Minor things. We started out with mesotherapy because he had never had an issue. This is a muscle relaxer, anti-inflammatory type injection, little tiny needles. He seemed fine. 6 months later (winter was in there so he wasn't worked much) and he started same symptoms. X-rayed him and sure enough it was KS. Not severe and if I could have afforded and MRI, I think we would have found more. I switched his workout routine and do regular massage and fingers crossed hes been back to running for a couple years.
ETA I have since had him horse chiro'd and he does feel better but unless he is super loose, it never sticks.
Edited by stayceem 2018-03-15 4:24 PM
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| I just reread your post. The camping out is a sure sign of kissing spine, but also could be tightness in muscles due to PSSM. Agree with above- xray back and test for PSSM 1 and 2. For now it wouldn't hurt to just swtich to a PSSM diet- low starch and sugar with Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Rice bran and Veg oil is what I use) along with a good amino acid, electrolyte, and Vit E supplement. |
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Location: IL | Have you had her checked for a urinary tract infection? Friend had a mare that quit turning first and acted colicky, she had a UTI. Also I would treat for ulcers, I've seen several horses stop turning barrels from ulcers and back sore. |
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| kk_sue - 2018-03-15 1:23 PM imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 2:18 PM Yes!! I've seen horses with all of the above exhibit this behavior. As well as the kissing spine show up as what was thought to be si issues, and thought to be pssm. Horse couldn't turn first. But Inhaled second and third I’m not super familiar with pssm. Is it easy to test for? Can it be treated and managed if that is it?
You can test through AQHA, UC Davis or Animal Genetics for type 1. The other types can be tested using hair through EquiSeq - otherwise you can only test for them via muscle biopsy during a tie-up/episode (the biopsy will only provide a positive diagnosis but not give you the different variants.)
EVERYTHING you mentioned in your original post is consistent with the symptoms that people have reported with their positive horses. Definitely join the PSSM Forum Facebook group - as overwhelming as it is, the members of that group all want to help - for the most part.
Management really seems to depend on the variants and how many of them the horse has, but BALANCED nutrition is KEY for all of them.
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| merdth6 - 2018-03-15 3:38 PM
Have you had her checked for a urinary tract infection? Friend had a mare that quit turning first and acted colicky, she had a UTI. Also I would treat for ulcers, I've seen several horses stop turning barrels from ulcers and back sore.
I have not had her checked for a UTI but I do have her on zesterra for her stomach. I personally haven’t had luck with omeprazole before |
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| lopnaround - 2018-03-15 3:35 PM
I just reread your post. The camping out is a sure sign of kissing spine, but also could be tightness in muscles due to PSSM. Agree with above- xray back and test for PSSM 1 and 2. For now it wouldn't hurt to just swtich to a PSSM diet- low starch and sugar with Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Rice bran and Veg oil is what I use) along with a good amino acid, electrolyte, and Vit E supplement.
Right now she is on pasture all day, gets alfalfa at night and gets 1/2 can of oats with Renew gold, vitamin E, electrolytes and MVP In-sync 4 |
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| Does she have Impressive breeding? Could you test for HYPP? |
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Location: Arizona | kk_sue - 2018-03-15 12:08 PM
*******EDITED***** videos of her first barrel attached
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado ) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle ). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
First video is of her ducking. Second video was taken just over a week earlier and was how her first consistently was prior to her ducking it.
https://youtu.be/LJe6j_tO9_4
https://youtu.be/urUp0lFTwpc
I watched your video several times. I see no soundness issue at all. I think she just got way too low and in a bad position and couldn't make that turn is all. Have you ran her again? |
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| LIVE2RUN - 2018-03-15 4:13 PM
kk_sue - 2018-03-15 12:08 PM
*******EDITED***** videos of her first barrel attached
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado ) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle ). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
First video is of her ducking. Second video was taken just over a week earlier and was how her first consistently was prior to her ducking it.
https://youtu.be/LJe6j_tO9_4
https://youtu.be/urUp0lFTwpc
I watched your video several times. I see no soundness issue at all. I think she just got way too low and in a bad position and couldn't make that turn is all. Have you ran her again?
I’ve ran her in different pens and she does the same thing. She getting down too low because that’s when she starts to duck it. I know there’s for sure a lot of soundness issues going on it’s just trying to get them pinpointed and treated that’s the issue but she’s definitely not a happy pony right now soundness wise. But if you watch the video of how she normally turns her style is to just get real low
Edited by kk_sue 2018-03-15 5:37 PM
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| Katielovestbs - 2018-03-15 4:06 PM
Does she have Impressive breeding? Could you test for HYPP?
I don’t think she’s impressive bred. She’s all highbrow cat, smart little Lena and peptoboonsmal
Edited by kk_sue 2018-03-15 5:35 PM
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| Could it be as simple as an eye problem? Maybe there is something wrong with her right eye and she is trying to turn but cant see it. |
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Posts: 542
| I'm going to get flamed for this but..... I see it as you have 3 options
1. go to Elgin, Outlaw, or ESMS spend a fortune to maybe get an answer
2. give time off, which is sometimes wasted or even worse in the case of some injuries
3. This one is a two sided coin tune her until she blatantly shows you the problem, work her so hard whatever hurts is bad enough to be
visible or hopefully you tune her hard and you fix the problem
IMO the witch is shutting you down. Tune her booty.
I'll say this I've seen many horses in futuries start with one trainer and it starts ducking. The owner sends to another trainer and no vetting was done just training and they had different hands. Ask yourself....did you start riding her different now that you felt her confidence and she was being more consistent? Sometimes in that small transition from green colt to solid colt ppl stop doing the helping colt things and start sending them forgetting they are still babies.
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | What Vet are you going too here in Texas? Going to the right Vet will make all the differents in the world.. |
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| Southtxponygirl - 2018-03-15 4:44 PM
What Vet are you going too here in Texas? Going to the right Vet will make all the differents in the world..
I had been taking her to Elgin |
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| runfastturnsmooth - 2018-03-15 4:43 PM
I'm going to get flamed for this but..... I see it as you have 3 options
1. go to Elgin, Outlaw, or ESMS spend a fortune to maybe get an answer
2. give time off, which is sometimes wasted or even worse in the case of some injuries
3. This one is a two sided coin tune her until she blatantly shows you the problem, work her so hard whatever hurts is bad enough to be
visible or hopefully you tune her hard and you fix the problem
IMO the witch is shutting you down. Tune her booty.
I'll say this I've seen many horses in futuries start with one trainer and it starts ducking. The owner sends to another trainer and no vetting was done just training and they had different hands. Ask yourself....did you start riding her different now that you felt her confidence and she was being more consistent? Sometimes in that small transition from green colt to solid colt ppl stop doing the helping colt things and start sending them forgetting they are still babies.
We’ve been going to Elgin. It’s just not a training issue she has a million symptoms for soundness issues other than ducking. In the mean time yes I have been tuning and treating it as a training issue but that doesn’t mean I’ll ignore soundness. I am the only person that has ever rode this horse and she is very well trained. For her to go from nailing it every time to ducking it every time without even a transition period where she started to cheat and short me more and more doesn’t even make sense without an underlying cause. Especially with everything else going on. If all I do is drill her and ignore everything I would be a bad trainer. If she is blatantly telling me hey I know how to do this I just don’t want to because it hurts and I say I don’t care I’m going to keep jamming it into your head anyways eventually she’s going to give me the big middle finger and we’ll be set even farther back. She is very smart and does not like to be constantly picked at. Training is not just riding it’s listening to what they tell you because they will tell you what they need.
Edited by kk_sue 2018-03-15 6:53 PM
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | kk_sue - 2018-03-15 6:20 PM Southtxponygirl - 2018-03-15 4:44 PM What Vet are you going too here in Texas? Going to the right Vet will make all the differents in the world.. I had been taking her to Elgin
Well you are in good hands then, hope that they can get this all figured out for you..And wanted to say welcome to Texas, just wish it was in a different way as in a good/happy thread  |
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| Southtxponygirl - 2018-03-15 5:30 PM
kk_sue - 2018-03-15 6:20 PM Southtxponygirl - 2018-03-15 4:44 PM What Vet are you going too here in Texas? Going to the right Vet will make all the differents in the world.. I had been taking her to Elgin
Thank you! We’ve been loving it down here except for living at the vet lol |
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Location: in the ozone | imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 2:33 PM
UC Davis does testing. There is pssm 1 and 2. Treatment involves diet changes and medications.
UC Davis does NOT test for PSSM2. There are many labs that can test for PSSM1 (or the full 5 panel - if you have a QH, you might want to go through AQHA so it's on the horse's record). The ONLY lab that does dna hair testing for the variants of PSSM2 is EquiSeq. |
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Location: in the ozone | kk_sue - 2018-03-15 12:08 PM
*******EDITED***** videos of her first barrel attached
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado ) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle ). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
First video is of her ducking. Second video was taken just over a week earlier and was how her first consistently was prior to her ducking it.
https://youtu.be/LJe6j_tO9_4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=urUp0lFTwpc
Do you have this horse on allbreedpedigree.com? You are describing so many PSSM2 symptoms. Off & one weird lamenesses that vets can't pinpoint/fix; the extremely tight back & hamstrings; tying up (MANY vets think it is colic - as do other people - since they are looking for the "solid tying up" where a horse doesn't move - these horses can have what LOOKS like a milder tying up (it's not really - it's still extremely painful); the muscle twitching as they have muscle episodes; pawing hard, trying to stretch out various areas of their body, traveling with head way down; abscesses; body soreness all over; ulcers; bunny hoping in the back when cantering, etc. There is a great group on FB - PSSM Forum (NOT the one that says about 5 Panel testing). If you post your horse's pedigree on there and describe the symptoms, you will get much help. These horses just HURT - so severely. (I saw you posted about treating them also - there are suggested feeding changes, managing, etc BUT it's best to know for sure what you are dealing with - if it's PSSM1 and one or more of the PSSM2 variants, etc. Some respond to changes beautifully, some don't. If it is PSSM2, it is a muscle disease & not a good life long prognosis. The vets don't normally accept/recognize the dna hair testing for the PSSM2 variants, BUT it is the best way to go. Vets will push the muscle biopsy but that does NOT give you a clear picture of what you are dealing with AND there are a lot of false results too. |
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| slipperyslope - 2018-03-15 6:07 PM
kk_sue - 2018-03-15 12:08 PM
*******EDITED***** videos of her first barrel attached
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado ) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle ). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
First video is of her ducking. Second video was taken just over a week earlier and was how her first consistently was prior to her ducking it.
https://youtu.be/LJe6j_tO9_4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=urUp0lFTwpc
Do you have this horse on allbreedpedigree.com? You are describing so many PSSM2 symptoms. Off & one weird lamenesses that vets can't pinpoint/fix; the extremely tight back & hamstrings; tying up (MANY vets think it is colic - as do other people - since they are looking for the "solid tying up" where a horse doesn't move - these horses can have what LOOKS like a milder tying up (it's not really - it's still extremely painful ); the muscle twitching as they have muscle episodes; pawing hard, trying to stretch out various areas of their body, traveling with head way down; abscesses; body soreness all over; ulcers; bunny hoping in the back when cantering, etc. There is a great group on FB - PSSM Forum (NOT the one that says about 5 Panel testing ). If you post your horse's pedigree on there and describe the symptoms, you will get much help. These horses just HURT - so severely. (I saw you posted about treating them also - there are suggested feeding changes, managing, etc BUT it's best to know for sure what you are dealing with - if it's PSSM1 and one or more of the PSSM2 variants, etc. Some respond to changes beautifully, some don't. If it is PSSM2, it is a muscle disease & not a good life long prognosis. The vets don't normally accept/recognize the dna hair testing for the PSSM2 variants, BUT it is the best way to go. Vets will push the muscle biopsy but that does NOT give you a clear picture of what you are dealing with AND there are a lot of false results too.
She is on all breed Pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/little+cat+big+money I will go look up that Facebook page now |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| kk_sue - 2018-03-15 7:58 PM slipperyslope - 2018-03-15 6:07 PM kk_sue - 2018-03-15 12:08 PM *******EDITED***** videos of her first barrel attached I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado ) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle ). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do. First video is of her ducking. Second video was taken just over a week earlier and was how her first consistently was prior to her ducking it. https://youtu.be/LJe6j_tO9_4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=urUp0lFTwpc... Do you have this horse on allbreedpedigree.com? You are describing so many PSSM2 symptoms. Off & one weird lamenesses that vets can't pinpoint/fix; the extremely tight back & hamstrings; tying up (MANY vets think it is colic - as do other people - since they are looking for the "solid tying up" where a horse doesn't move - these horses can have what LOOKS like a milder tying up (it's not really - it's still extremely painful ); the muscle twitching as they have muscle episodes; pawing hard, trying to stretch out various areas of their body, traveling with head way down; abscesses; body soreness all over; ulcers; bunny hoping in the back when cantering, etc. There is a great group on FB - PSSM Forum (NOT the one that says about 5 Panel testing ). If you post your horse's pedigree on there and describe the symptoms, you will get much help. These horses just HURT - so severely. (I saw you posted about treating them also - there are suggested feeding changes, managing, etc BUT it's best to know for sure what you are dealing with - if it's PSSM1 and one or more of the PSSM2 variants, etc. Some respond to changes beautifully, some don't. If it is PSSM2, it is a muscle disease & not a good life long prognosis. The vets don't normally accept/recognize the dna hair testing for the PSSM2 variants, BUT it is the best way to go. Vets will push the muscle biopsy but that does NOT give you a clear picture of what you are dealing with AND there are a lot of false results too. She is on all breed Pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/little+cat+big+money I will go look up that Facebook page now
Edited by lopnaround 2018-03-16 10:16 AM
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I had a gelding that would not work his right, his lefts were beautiful, thousand dollars with very good vets and almost a year later found it was his suspensory. He was never lame, no swelling, very good lameness vets could not get him to show him any soreness. He finally came out of a run 3 legged lame and had torn it. The vet said that probably what was bothering him all along a progressive injury till it finally tore . I hardly ran him during that year but I would go to the vet try something different and they would have me go run him so I go run him to see if it worked. This was several years ago and the one thing that I did not do was put a lameness locator on him, nobody had them back man. That is a great tool for picking up issues that can’t be seen by the eye or found through x-rays or ultrasounds. Good luck with your mare.
Edited by rodeomom3 2018-03-16 10:30 AM
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The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | kk_sue - 2018-03-15 4:28 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2018-03-15 4:13 PM
kk_sue - 2018-03-15 12:08 PM
*******EDITED***** videos of her first barrel attached
I have a 4 year old futurity horse that has been having the weirdest soundness issues lately then all of a sudden started stopping and turning right before first barrel when that has always been her money barrel she would nail it every time. I moved from Colorado to Texas about 6 weeks ago and before I left Colorado her back and hamstrings were really tight so I had PEMF therapy done a couple times. After I got down to Texas about a week later I think she tied up on me. (Yes she was already on daily electrolytes and has access to a salt block since before we left Colorado ) I went to go clean out waters and she was standing in the middle of her pen pawing aggressively then she stopped with her head down and her leg stretched forwards and her eyes closed and wobbled for a good 30 seconds before starting to paw again. I went to take her temp and when I lifted her blanket the right side of her hindquarters were tensed up and twitching really bad. I took her to the vet and her blood work came back normal her muscle enzymes may have been just slightly elevated. She was put on fluids and the vet said she colicked. But she was never off of food or water and had been going to the bathroom completely normally and wasn’t acting colicky to me at all. The next week she got an abscess I took her in and they did X-rays just to be sure that’s all it was because it wasn’t one we could really see because it was in the bulb of her heel. Her feet look great in X-ray and I got the abscess cleared up. I took her back into the vet because her back is still sore and she just doesn’t seem as powerful in her turns as usual. She was flexion tested positive on the stifle so they X-rayed stifles and those looked good and they couldn’t feel any fluid in them. They said it could be the SI but we decided to try some acupuncture and run her on Robaxin. A few days later she went to a barrel race and ran right at the top with some TOUGH horses. But I went back to the vet the next day because her back was still just hurting her. There was a different vet looking at her and completely out of nowhere he says she has EPM. She does stand camped out in the back end sometimes and she does walk a little camped out sometimes. When she gets into the trailer or walks over something she puts one foot at a time with her front feet then bunny hops with her back feet but other than that she hasn’t showed me any signs at all. She doesn’t stumble. The night before she ran with very high level horses without an issue so I kinda had a hard time believing him. He said horses that have it have a higher chance of “colic” and abscesses. But I started her on the medication (something that starts with a t in DMSO. I’d have to go look at the bottle ). 4 days later out of nowhere she starts acting like she’s going to bite your head off if you touch anywhere under her belly from between her front legs all the way to between her back legs. I had a deep tissue massage and chiropractor done on her because her back problem was still there and I started giving her zesterra because I thought maybe her stomach was hurting. Her back was FINALLY better and didn’t seem like it’s bothering her at all anymore. I went to make a run the next day and she just shut down HARD and turned before first barrel. I exhibitioned her the exact same as always and I rode her like I always do. I ran her the next day and I was pushing he past first I was still sitting forward and two handed and she did the same thing again. I took her to a different arena a few days later that was pretty open behind first and I got her around it but I was pulling her off of it and kicking with my inside leg and doing everything I could and we still hit it. This is very unlike her and for a 4 year old she is very consistent and always very honest. It’s got to be some soundness thing going on. The blood test for EPM came back and my vet said it was 55%. She doesn’t try to bite my head off anymore touching under her belly but she still definitely isn’t happy about it. I am at a complete loss on what to do.
First video is of her ducking. Second video was taken just over a week earlier and was how her first consistently was prior to her ducking it.
https://youtu.be/LJe6j_tO9_4
https://youtu.be/urUp0lFTwpc
I watched your video several times. I see no soundness issue at all. I think she just got way too low and in a bad position and couldn't make that turn is all. Have you ran her again?
I’ve ran her in different pens and she does the same thing. She getting down too low because that’s when she starts to duck it. I know there’s for sure a lot of soundness issues going on it’s just trying to get them pinpointed and treated that’s the issue but she’s definitely not a happy pony right now soundness wise. But if you watch the video of how she normally turns her style is to just get real low
Oh wow, well good luck and I hope you find out what's wrong. Gosh, if only they could talk!! So frustrating, I am sure! |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| You may also want to try a Bone Scan. Full body is about $1200...but for lameness you can't pinpoint it's a great tool. The vet will look at areas that "light up" and go back and xray or ultrasound depending on location. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| I would pursue PSSM and Kissing Spine.
We have one with KS who aside from your specific performance issue has very similar issues. I pursued PSSM via diet changes as well initially. We never did test him because we found the KS and that made a world of difference. We kept him on a similar diet without the supplementing and just recently changed back to what the rest of the barn eats - we will see, if he goes backwards I would pursue PSSM more.
Anyway, he stood camped out, sensitive to the touch, muscles in his hind end looked rock hard at times and a couples times after we got done roping on him and tied him back to the fence he seemed to have some kind of episode where he just got p!ssed at the world. He also had severe anxiety in the box. Up until that point I was also running him on barrels and he was blowing up at the 2nd. He was see regularly by a few different chiros and they never picked up on it.
We took him in because improvements from diet had stalled, despite time off, and after a longer night of roping he’d be very back sore. They showed up in a X-ray clear as day after he flexed, trotted, etc 10/10. Injections have worked wonderfully for him so far. He’s not gone back to the barrels, I think there is a mental block there, he gets terrible anxiety and neither of us enjoy it. So he gets to rope, we’re both happier. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | Call me crazy but, have you talked to an animal communicator?? Its worth a shot in my opinion. I have a girl talk to my horses every now and then and i love it and they do too. Its so awesome to experience and I know its real because shes told me things only my horses would know. Its not very expensive! |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| One thing I would do, change directions. Start going to the left barrel first. It will free up her mind, your mind, and you may be able to put all this behind you. If you go left and she never does it again, its all good. SOmething to try anyway. |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | kk_sue - 2018-03-15 4:51 PM lopnaround - 2018-03-15 3:35 PM I just reread your post. The camping out is a sure sign of kissing spine, but also could be tightness in muscles due to PSSM. Agree with above- xray back and test for PSSM 1 and 2. For now it wouldn't hurt to just swtich to a PSSM diet- low starch and sugar with Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Rice bran and Veg oil is what I use) along with a good amino acid, electrolyte, and Vit E supplement. Right now she is on pasture all day, gets alfalfa at night and gets 1/2 can of oats with Renew gold, vitamin E, electrolytes and MVP In-sync 4
If she carries PSSM spring grass and oats have alot of NSC (sugar and Carbs) the Renew Gold is good... all you have to do to test for that is pull hair and send off... AQHA does it or you can find a lab to do it. But body soreness and colic can come from a horse not able to process NSC.... She has a badazz style! |
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Location: in the ozone | cindyt - 2018-03-16 1:53 PM
kk_sue - 2018-03-15 4:51 PM lopnaround - 2018-03-15 3:35 PM I just reread your post. The camping out is a sure sign of kissing spine, but also could be tightness in muscles due to PSSM. Agree with above- xray back and test for PSSM 1 and 2. For now it wouldn't hurt to just swtich to a PSSM diet- low starch and sugar with Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Rice bran and Veg oil is what I use) along with a good amino acid, electrolyte, and Vit E supplement. Right now she is on pasture all day, gets alfalfa at night and gets 1/2 can of oats with Renew gold, vitamin E, electrolytes and MVP In-sync 4
There aren't any "carriers" of PSSM - whether it's type 1 or 2 - they either have it or they don't. (n/P1 HAS it for example, does not have to be P1/P1)
And PSSM2 has NOTHING to do with starch & sugars and this horse has more of the symptoms & breeding towards PSSM2. Renew Gold has not been a good suggestion for PSSM2 either.
Just a couple things to clear up since there is too much misinformation around anyway. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I haven’t seen anyone else saying anything about the horse not wanting to pick up the right lead (in second video), was very resilient when asked to pick up that lead which happens to be the first barrels lead...... she swished her tail, didn’t want to go forward, def a pain issue to the RIGHT side (or opposite side) whatever is causing this needs to be fixed before she doesn’t want to perform anymore because that’s a super nice horse!!
I had a mare with major SI issues, she would never duck the barrel she just couldn’t get the set turn and push off the back side.
I also ran one two years ago that ducked the 2nd and we found out she had severe ovarian cysts, we thought it was si but did ultra sound and found cysts, had them removed (dissolved) and now she doesn’t duck anymore. Also used regumate
Whatever it is just take one step at a time, all these opinions can be over whelming!!! You’ll figure it out |
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 Star Padded Honey
Posts: 8890
Location: NW MT | I defnitelly agree on checking on PSSM. Lots of people are "closed minded" about it, but they are very real diseases and any of us that have symptomatic horses, are both relieved and heartbroken when we get the diagnosis. It is great to finally know "what" is wrong with your horse, and then can try to help with different management, but very heartbreaking to see what they go through - and face that some, no matter what you try, just never respond OR respond for awhile & then back to extremely painful issues. Also, with PSSM2 being a muscle disease, more often than not, it also shortens their life considerably. |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | joemama - 2018-03-15 3:01 PM lopnaround - 2018-03-15 2:47 PM joemama - 2018-03-15 2:36 PM imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 2:00 PM Some thing to think about.. I had a gelding with sore hamstrings. Injected his hocks (upper and lower)less than a week later his hamstring soreness is GONE. Also look into Pssm kissing spines. Saddle soreness. Hope you find it and it's and easy fix. Could any of these cause a horse to turn hard in front of the 1st then go on and run 2nd and 3rd perfectly?
ETA- YES....if a horse is sore on one side they could duck the first and then turn the others perfectly.
Why would a horse sit pretty darn hard in front of the barrel vs running by it? I could see a soreness issue causing the horse to run by the barrel but not sit hard and turn in front of it. Could it because they know the soreness shows when pushing out of the barrel? Im not arguing, just curious and never seen this.
I had a horse that did the same thing, except he did it on the 2nd. I did everything I could to try to fix him from vets to tuning. He would do it about every other time. I finally gave up and sold him.
I really like your mare. I hope you find an answer!! |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | slipperyslope - 2018-03-16 6:36 PM cindyt - 2018-03-16 1:53 PM kk_sue - 2018-03-15 4:51 PM lopnaround - 2018-03-15 3:35 PM I just reread your post. The camping out is a sure sign of kissing spine, but also could be tightness in muscles due to PSSM. Agree with above- xray back and test for PSSM 1 and 2. For now it wouldn't hurt to just swtich to a PSSM diet- low starch and sugar with Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Rice bran and Veg oil is what I use) along with a good amino acid, electrolyte, and Vit E supplement. Right now she is on pasture all day, gets alfalfa at night and gets 1/2 can of oats with Renew gold, vitamin E, electrolytes and MVP In-sync 4 There aren't any "carriers" of PSSM - whether it's type 1 or 2 - they either have it or they don't. (n/P1 HAS it for example, does not have to be P1/P1 ) And PSSM2 has NOTHING to do with starch & sugars and this horse has more of the symptoms & breeding towards PSSM2. Renew Gold has not been a good suggestion for PSSM2 either. Just a couple things to clear up since there is too much misinformation around anyway.
Each horse is different on what they can tolerate.
For now I would cut oats and see what kind of changes you see.
Price bran is an inflammation. But my guy does good on renew gold. Plus I've got him on golden paste.
Edited by roxieannie 2018-03-19 9:15 AM
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Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | roxieannie - 2018-03-19 9:13 AM slipperyslope - 2018-03-16 6:36 PM cindyt - 2018-03-16 1:53 PM kk_sue - 2018-03-15 4:51 PM lopnaround - 2018-03-15 3:35 PM I just reread your post. The camping out is a sure sign of kissing spine, but also could be tightness in muscles due to PSSM. Agree with above- xray back and test for PSSM 1 and 2. For now it wouldn't hurt to just swtich to a PSSM diet- low starch and sugar with Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Rice bran and Veg oil is what I use) along with a good amino acid, electrolyte, and Vit E supplement. Right now she is on pasture all day, gets alfalfa at night and gets 1/2 can of oats with Renew gold, vitamin E, electrolytes and MVP In-sync 4 There aren't any "carriers" of PSSM - whether it's type 1 or 2 - they either have it or they don't. (n/P1 HAS it for example, does not have to be P1/P1 ) And PSSM2 has NOTHING to do with starch & sugars and this horse has more of the symptoms & breeding towards PSSM2. Renew Gold has not been a good suggestion for PSSM2 either. Just a couple things to clear up since there is too much misinformation around anyway.
Each horse is different on what they can tolerate.
For now I would cut oats and see what kind of changes you see.
Price bran is an inflammation. But my guy does good on renew gold. Plus I've got him on golden paste.
Edited by cindyt 2018-03-19 10:40 AM
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Location: in the ozone | cindyt - 2018-03-19 9:39 AM
roxieannie - 2018-03-19 9:13 AM slipperyslope - 2018-03-16 6:36 PM cindyt - 2018-03-16 1:53 PM kk_sue - 2018-03-15 4:51 PM lopnaround - 2018-03-15 3:35 PM I just reread your post. The camping out is a sure sign of kissing spine, but also could be tightness in muscles due to PSSM. Agree with above- xray back and test for PSSM 1 and 2. For now it wouldn't hurt to just swtich to a PSSM diet- low starch and sugar with Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Rice bran and Veg oil is what I use) along with a good amino acid, electrolyte, and Vit E supplement. Right now she is on pasture all day, gets alfalfa at night and gets 1/2 can of oats with Renew gold, vitamin E, electrolytes and MVP In-sync 4 There aren't any "carriers" of PSSM - whether it's type 1 or 2 - they either have it or they don't. (n/P1 HAS it for example, does not have to be P1/P1 ) And PSSM2 has NOTHING to do with starch & sugars and this horse has more of the symptoms & breeding towards PSSM2. Renew Gold has not been a good suggestion for PSSM2 either. Just a couple things to clear up since there is too much misinformation around anyway.
Each horse is different on what they can tolerate.
For now I would cut oats and see what kind of changes you see.
Price bran is an inflammation. But my guy does good on renew gold. Plus I've got him on golden paste.
You can "read" all you want but live it to know for sure. And MANY PSSM2 horses have no problems with starch or sugar.
Also people calling them "carriers" is very misleading ... way too many people say it that way to cover up a positive horse, symptomatic or not. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 824
Location: Duvall, WA | kk_sue - 2018-03-15 1:23 PM
imturnin3 - 2018-03-15 2:18 PM
Yes!!
I've seen horses with all of the above exhibit this behavior. As well as the kissing spine show up as what was thought to be si issues, and thought to be pssm. Horse couldn't turn first. But Inhaled second and third
I’m not super familiar with pssm. Is it easy to test for? Can it be treated and managed if that is it?
If she did indeed tie up then she likely does have PSSM. Barrel lines typically have PSSM2 not PSSM1 like in the AQHA five panel test.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1056
| could be a magnesium deficiency. try Mag Restore...........also you might be anticipating in your body language in your approach |
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Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | slipperyslope - 2018-03-21 9:14 PM cindyt - 2018-03-19 9:39 AM roxieannie - 2018-03-19 9:13 AM slipperyslope - 2018-03-16 6:36 PM cindyt - 2018-03-16 1:53 PM kk_sue - 2018-03-15 4:51 PM lopnaround - 2018-03-15 3:35 PM I just reread your post. The camping out is a sure sign of kissing spine, but also could be tightness in muscles due to PSSM. Agree with above- xray back and test for PSSM 1 and 2. For now it wouldn't hurt to just swtich to a PSSM diet- low starch and sugar with Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Rice bran and Veg oil is what I use) along with a good amino acid, electrolyte, and Vit E supplement. Right now she is on pasture all day, gets alfalfa at night and gets 1/2 can of oats with Renew gold, vitamin E, electrolytes and MVP In-sync 4 There aren't any "carriers" of PSSM - whether it's type 1 or 2 - they either have it or they don't. (n/P1 HAS it for example, does not have to be P1/P1 ) And PSSM2 has NOTHING to do with starch & sugars and this horse has more of the symptoms & breeding towards PSSM2. Renew Gold has not been a good suggestion for PSSM2 either. Just a couple things to clear up since there is too much misinformation around anyway.
Each horse is different on what they can tolerate.
For now I would cut oats and see what kind of changes you see.
Price bran is an inflammation. But my guy does good on renew gold. Plus I've got him on golden paste. You can "read" all you want but live it to know for sure. And MANY PSSM2 horses have no problems with starch or sugar. Also people calling them "carriers" is very misleading ... way too many people say it that way to cover up a positive horse, symptomatic or not.
MANY PSSM1 horses can handle sugar and starch just as much as 2 can or cant... all horses are different and until the OP confirms that is what she's dealing with, I have bigger fish to fry then my terminology with you.  |
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Location: in the ozone | cindyt - 2018-03-22 11:51 AM
slipperyslope - 2018-03-21 9:14 PM cindyt - 2018-03-19 9:39 AM roxieannie - 2018-03-19 9:13 AM slipperyslope - 2018-03-16 6:36 PM cindyt - 2018-03-16 1:53 PM kk_sue - 2018-03-15 4:51 PM lopnaround - 2018-03-15 3:35 PM I just reread your post. The camping out is a sure sign of kissing spine, but also could be tightness in muscles due to PSSM. Agree with above- xray back and test for PSSM 1 and 2. For now it wouldn't hurt to just swtich to a PSSM diet- low starch and sugar with Omega 3 and Omega 6 (Rice bran and Veg oil is what I use) along with a good amino acid, electrolyte, and Vit E supplement. Right now she is on pasture all day, gets alfalfa at night and gets 1/2 can of oats with Renew gold, vitamin E, electrolytes and MVP In-sync 4 There aren't any "carriers" of PSSM - whether it's type 1 or 2 - they either have it or they don't. (n/P1 HAS it for example, does not have to be P1/P1 ) And PSSM2 has NOTHING to do with starch & sugars and this horse has more of the symptoms & breeding towards PSSM2. Renew Gold has not been a good suggestion for PSSM2 either. Just a couple things to clear up since there is too much misinformation around anyway.
Each horse is different on what they can tolerate.
For now I would cut oats and see what kind of changes you see.
Price bran is an inflammation. But my guy does good on renew gold. Plus I've got him on golden paste. You can "read" all you want but live it to know for sure. And MANY PSSM2 horses have no problems with starch or sugar. Also people calling them "carriers" is very misleading ... way too many people say it that way to cover up a positive horse, symptomatic or not. MANY PSSM1 horses can handle sugar and starch just as much as 2 can or cant... all horses are different and until the OP confirms that is what she's dealing with, I have bigger fish to fry then my terminology with you.
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | Any updates? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 561
Location: somewhere in the south | Hi, could you tell me who you use as your animal communicator??? |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Had a gelding he was clocking, he was 10 and had some of those symptoms vet said hocks fusing so i did have them fused, when we fused them we untrsound his suspensories good. Had to rest 30 days, when i went back to riding he rode left beautiful when you turned to right he would just stop and turn around. So i called vet carried back she said had a little sorness in stifles so we injected. Also put him on pssm diet. I kept him shape by luning him with a 50foot lunge line. Carried him to show he just was baulky at the gate and qas really rough. Under the advise from another friend i carried to another vet put him the round pen then he pulled his tail he almost fell over and also flunked the front foot crossing test. He pulled blood for epm test came back negative. So i sent blood to thst place in florida and it came back slightly positive so i treated him and he got better. I just turned him out afterward for a couple of months just sold him and pass the vet test. |
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Regular
Posts: 52
| jake16 - 2018-03-24 7:15 PM
Any updates?
I switched her to more of a “PSSM diet” had acupuncture done on her and started her on some different herbs. I also haven’t put a saddle on her I’ve just been riding bareback and ponying her. She is definitely feeling better some of her muscles that were rock hard aren’t nearly as bad now. We are going to Dr. Honnas next Wednesday for a blood panel and some back X-rays. |
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Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | kk_sue - 2018-04-19 4:02 PM jake16 - 2018-03-24 7:15 PM Any updates? I switched her to more of a “PSSM diet” had acupuncture done on her and started her on some different herbs. I also haven’t put a saddle on her I’ve just been riding bareback and ponying her. She is definitely feeling better some of her muscles that were rock hard aren’t nearly as bad now. We are going to Dr. Honnas next Wednesday for a blood panel and some back X-rays.
Keep us posted KK... I have noticed a huge difference in all my horses on a low NSC and more forage based diet... even my old guy gets around much better... |
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Regular
Posts: 52
| *** UPDATE
Changed her diet to forage only and she looks great.
Went to Dr Honnas today he said my horse looks prestine except for still stopping and backing funny he said keep doing what I’m doing and let nerves recover from EPM and she should be perfect in 60-90 days! |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| kk_sue - 2018-04-25 12:03 PM
*** UPDATE
Changed her diet to forage only and she looks great.
Went to Dr Honnas today he said my horse looks prestine except for still stopping and backing funny he said keep doing what I’m doing and let nerves recover from EPM and she should be perfect in 60-90 days!
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | kk_sue - 2018-04-25 1:03 PM
*** UPDATE
Changed her diet to forage only and she looks great.
Went to Dr Honnas today he said my horse looks prestine except for still stopping and backing funny he said keep doing what I’m doing and let nerves recover from EPM and she should be perfect in 60-90 days!
thanks for the updates:) |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| kk_sue - 2018-04-25 12:03 PM *** UPDATE Changed her diet to forage only and she looks great. Went to Dr Honnas today he said my horse looks prestine except for still stopping and backing funny he said keep doing what I’m doing and let nerves recover from EPM and she should be perfect in 60-90 days!
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All of a sudden ducking first barrel?? *updated videos of first