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| Looking at broodmares and wondering? What have you had luck with? Are the designer lines more sound than the old school track fast run bred horses?
Edited by Hollywood Hic 2018-03-22 7:53 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 180
| My Jet of Honor/Dinner Flight gelding is built well and sturdy for his height. He isn’t overly big. He might be 14.3 but he has good bone and structure, but not too much to cause additional stress to his body.
I firmly believe the best way to keep sound horses is for them to be turned out as much as possibly (ideally 24/7 with access to shelter) |
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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
 
Location: Kansas | Clifford has been pretty sound....I think we inject hocks about once a year on him.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/behold+he+reigns
My old bay horse, Joker, is the most sound barrel horse ever, I think. He's 25 and has had 1 set of hock injections in his life. No papers so no idea how he's really bred. |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Well, he’s out of Unicorn by Fantasy... |
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| The slower and more rank they are the sounder they are...
I have this sign on my tackroom door for buyers to choose from ..
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| A very accomplished old trainer at Ruisdoso once told me "the fastest horses you never hear about" I was like okay whatever...now I know what he means. Those 2 yr olds that show you they can run a hole in the wind rarely last and its not because of management.
Those nice lil cruise through 2-4D horses are probably the soundest. But if they are using themselves they gonna need maintenance point blank. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | I have a 17 year old geilding who is out of a son of Dash for Cash (Kartell) crossed on a grand daughter of easy jet. I’ve ran him for 14 years and he’s still in great shape! He’s had a couple tendon injuries but other than that pretty low maintenance. He’s thick boned and takes care of himself. I think that’s what matters most. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| My 24 yo gelding who checked out 100% last week. He had one set of injections last summer at 23. Been running with me since he was 5. Solid 3D entire life. Nothing impressive really, bottom side is decent.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/coulda+foaled+me
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | I have this guy http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pws+cat
16 years old and never been injected or had anything done other than teeth. I let my vet check him every year, and every year he smiles while watching him move, and says, "Ride him!"
The only thing he's every really commented on was to pay attention for back soreness bc he does have a bit of a long back, but I've never had any issues even with that.
He can fly, and he can turn. He has a couple screws loose up top lol, but when he's on he is a FUN ride. The harder you push, the harder he turns. He would be even better with a fearless rider, as I am not so I don't push him to his full potential. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| Personally, I think preventative medicine is more important than breeding. Also, how the horse is used makes a big difference. My 6 year old stays at the trainer. She is never allowed to run more than three times in a weekend. That would be Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I know people who have hauled horses to one show and run Friday and Saturday morning at one show then Saturday night and Sunday at another show. This was with a 3 year old. That poor horse is so unsound now that he will not go in the arena. My trainer has ridden enough horses that she can pick up on problems quickly and we address them immediately. She has my permission to do what is necessary to keep the horse winning. One other thing that I think is critical is proper shoeing is definitely essential. |
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Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | I guess I could also point out my absolutely NOT sound one lol...
Same age, 16, hasn't been used as much as the other, currently trying to leg back up and hoping he's sound enough to run again...ran 5 times in the past 2 years...
Has a bum LEG (knee, pastern, coffin, all bad on one leg), needs hocks and stifles done...hard keeper, bad conformation, etc...
BUT, he's my baby, most favorite, will spend my last dime on this horse.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/flamboyant+flit |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
Location: MN | Nothing special at all. He love's to run and is solid 1D/2D wherever we go. Honest as the day is long! He's 11 this year and is spoiled but that's about it. No injections and it the TOUGHEST horse I've ever been around. I wish I could have a million more like him 
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/too+tuff+to+handle
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| I've had a few nicely bred barrel horses...and they were not very sound, nor very fast haha. But of course, the last couple grade horses that I've had with ok ish conformation have been the soundest!! *insert eye roll* =] |
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | I have an APHA mare that 20 this year. Nothing important on her papers but she is the soundest thing around. Never needed maintenance. I've had her since she was 7 and she was my main barrel horse for many years. I bred her and she gave me a pretty great filly back in 2014 who is now in barrel training. I'm praying she be just as sound!
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/skipkins+babe
Edited by Runninbay 2018-03-23 10:50 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1074
| Peppy San Badger - old school cow breeding. LOL! |
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Regular
Posts: 79
| By far the soundest horse I have ever ran; Zip Cash Glory, by Zip Cash, out of an own daughter of Jet of Honor.
I see a couple comments including the Jet line.... now that you've brought this up, makes me want to go shopping at Cheyenne & Randy Allens  |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| IMO, higher odds of staying sound stems more from conformation than bloodlines. |
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida |
I think conformation is extremely important, and so are bloodlines, but I'll take conformation first. I've had several hold up very well for many years, all different bloodlines which include Texas High Dasher, Special Feelins/Special Effort, On The Money Red, Wonder Otoe, Beduino, Dash for Cash & more.
All of the ones that held up well had very strong back and loin areas, traveled correctly and all but one of them were super smooth to ride. I've always heard if they are jarring you during the ride, they are jarring their own joints. Made sense to me.
Edited by Runaway 2018-03-23 2:23 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | Runaway - 2018-03-23 1:20 PM
I've always heard if they are jarring you during the ride, they are jarring their own joints. Made sense to me.
It makes sense, but I have the exception to the rule. My horse is 20 this year, always been sound, never been injected, and he is a rough sucker to ride. Smooth when he runs barrels or poles, but on the muscle rough otherwise. Kind of why I don't ride him much anymore. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 670
Location: Running my kids somewhere. | This was the honest-love-runnin little mare. Started running at 4 yr old and never took a lame step in her life. She was shown until age 27. I lost her at 29 yr old to a tumor. I would take a barn full of her.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/doctor+motion |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Sound and what else?
What's your definition of sound?
What amount of maintenance pushes a horse over the edge from sound to unsound?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 629
| My 17 year old that I'm fighting her tendons is King Dude Hancock on top and Smart Peppy Lena on bottom. She is built well and has great feet. Always has been sound. Didn't need hock injections until she was 14. Then she started to fuse, and tore up her tendon. But the tendon was a freak accident.
My other mare is Smart Peppy Tari on top and unknown cow bloodlines on the bottom. Knock on wood she's 12, this year and needs no maintenance and has always been sound. Not badly put together, she could be improved in some ways, but she's stout with good strong legs and good feet.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| I have 2 super sound by same sire a son of FDD crossed on Runaway Winner daughter. One is out of own daughter of Reckless Dash and the other is out of own daughter of Holland Ease and a Shawnee Bug mare.
They are both big boned,, deep shoulders and big hips. One has had his stifle injected but xrays were clean. I'm 100% positive it was sore from the Tourette syndrome kicking BS he does randomly(usually he's irritated about something) bc he's a weirdo
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/seco+three+bars
Best horse I ever threw a leg over. He did it all and handled the rodeo road well. If you look at the horses By Spotted Bull you see speed royal barrel horses. They won at the top of our racing world.
I never did anything for this horse other than stand him in the river on mondays after he ran in three rodeos on tough hard rodeo ground. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560
Location: Where the buffalo roam | My old mare was Peppy San on top and Sugar Bars breeding on the bottom. Never needed injections and was run hard until she was 22. She did develop arthritis in one front pastern late in life, but I blame that on running on crappy rodeo ground. She had the crookedest back legs you ever saw so I'm one of the few that does not get too hung up on confirmation (not saying it's not important, but my most correct horse has also been the one I had to retire early due to chronic lameness). And she took me to circuit finals and was a 1D horse.
Edited by Nobody 2018-03-25 8:24 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1531
Location: Oklahoma | Driftwood.x on run. Or reverse it . |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20904
Location: LouLouVille, OK | barrelracinbroke - 2018-03-23 1:42 PM IMO, higher odds of staying sound stems more from conformation than bloodlines.
I can agree with this, but ad... I like the older bloodlines because of the confirmation. There are very few I like new school confirmation wise... (to each their own though ;) ) I think the older stuff has that bone and foot you can't beat!
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | My 22 year old gelding is still sound to run. He had a 1D record when I bought him and if I rode him correct I could make 1D times. I haven’t hauled him much in the last few years due to kids but my daughter started to run him this year. He’s a son of Nonstop bubblin and I bought his full sister to breed.
https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/bubblin+bubba+gump
ETA he’s the horse in my avatar
Edited by ndcowgirl 2018-08-20 1:36 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 155
| https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mainly+manda
Tough, gritty, and good bone. She was a solid 2D at jackpots and a successful college rodeo horse.
She's 23 this year and doesn't think she needs to be retired!
Edited by Junebug1 2018-08-20 2:30 PM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | barrelracinbroke - 2018-03-23 1:42 PM IMO, higher odds of staying sound stems more from conformation than bloodlines.
Big ditto to this, conformation is the key |
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Regular
Posts: 89
| TheDutchMan01 - 2018-03-23 8:37 AM
I have a 17 year old geilding who is out of a son of Dash for Cash (Kartell) crossed on a grand daughter of easy jet. I’ve ran him for 14 years and he’s still in great shape! He’s had a couple tendon injuries but other than that pretty low maintenance. He’s thick boned and takes care of himself. I think that’s what matters most.
That's how my mare is bred I just love that cross she is so nice minded she has her quirks but level headed. now for soundness we have been battling a little bit but nothing serious. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| I have a mare that is 14 (just got her a few months ago) that was not taken care of well AT ALL before I got her that is FDD on top and TB on bottom and she is as sound as they come. We radiographed everything (hocks, stifles, fetlocks, feet) and she is squeaky clean. Surprised the crap out of me.... |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| #1
Raise Your Glass
War Leo
Sky Top Bar
#2
Leaving Memories
Timeto Thinkrich
Frenchmans Bogie
Dash Ta Fame |
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| Straight cow. Docs Sylish Oak on top, out of a mare that goes back to Smart Chic O Lena. |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
| scwebster - 2018-08-21 11:27 AM Straight cow. Docs Sylish Oak on top, out of a mare that goes back to Smart Chic O Lena.
My friends little cow mare is falling apart at age 13. Her mare's momma had Wimpy still on papers, and the rest was linebred Doc Bar. Friends mare has not been used hard, didn't really start any serious riding until 3 years ago.
My hybrid Zan Par Bar/Top Moon stallion is 14 this year and, knocking on my head and hopeful not to jinx myself, has never had a serious vet call. He's run since he was 5.
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | SO much goes into making a sound old horse. But it has to start with breeding. Personally, I really like some Easy Jet in a pedigree for soundness. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| ausranch - 2018-08-21 12:17 PM
SO much goes into making a sound old horse. But it has to start with breeding. Personally, I really like some Easy Jet in a pedigree for soundness.
Easy Jet is pretty hard to beat. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| I bred some frozen Special Effort semen to my unicorn mare that ran for 22 years never injected once but she just got so bad at the gate I had to retire her. Just didn't need those nasty injections that deteriorate her cartilage or cause injections! Ugh awful who does that!
She doesn't have any papers but positive she came straight from doc bar or easy jet, shes just too sound to be these bred down like theses fine boned things that people have today. Not a needle has touched her once! If she coliced just drove her around in the trailer on a gravel road. Also I don't believe in farriers because she just doesn't need one I keep her barefoot...we just stay away from gravel roads they make her ouchy.
We've won the 5D saddle every year at the local silver spur club so I'm confident she'll produce no less than a full fledged white with a rainbow horn unicorn that never needs injections, is push it in the neck close your eyes to the first barrel, and only needs a coggins for vet work.
If it works out the first year I'll probably freeze some embryos and sell a few. There's already a waiting list so better get in now! 5k to put down a deposit on a unicorn and no guarantees! #marepower #unicorns
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-08-21 5:36 PM
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Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida |
Special Effort - and the horse has great conformation.
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| She was an own daughter of Twaynas Dash out of a TB mare, and was raced hard as a 3yo. She won a lot of money and awards, retired sound and continued to stay sound as I ran her in high school and college. She was a pro level mare who was officially retired to the broodmare band, sound as can be. She had one abscess in her life, but other than that- nada, no soundness issues. Unfortunately we lost her in a freak accident while she was in foal. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 670
Location: Running my kids somewhere. | Old Doc Bar cow lines. Mare ran from age 4 to age 28 and had 9 foals. She NEVER took a lame step, never injected. God I miss her! |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | I have a question for the owners of super sound horses. Did these horses run at the top of the 1 d at 600 plus shows? i had a super sound horse when i was a kid but she did not run at the very top, so one could argue that of course she was sound. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| kwanatha - 2018-08-22 5:40 PM
I have a question for the owners of super sound horses. Did these horses run at the top of the 1 d at 600 plus shows? i had a super sound horse when i was a kid but she did not run at the very top, so one could argue that of course she was sound.
Hotshot saw a vet every Monday.
Ask mama steinhoff.
The top trainers either are a vet or have one on call 24/7 |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| cindyt - 2018-08-20 11:14 AM barrelracinbroke - 2018-03-23 1:42 PM IMO, higher odds of staying sound stems more from conformation than bloodlines. I can agree with this, but ad... I like the older bloodlines because of the confirmation. There are very few I like new school confirmation wise... (to each their own though ;) ) I think the older stuff has that bone and foot you can't beat!
I actually tend to prefer older bloodlines too...... so we agree on both points.  |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Typically the Jet Of Honor horses stayed sound forever. They typically didn't make great futurity horses as they seemed to really come alive about 7 or 8 but by golly they made tuff as nails open and rodeo horses. As far as conformation goes obviously a balanced horse with correct leg conformation is going to get you alot further. To go with that bigger jointed horses will see far less soundness issues then fine boned small jointed horses. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Confirmation makes a difference of course, but certain bloodlines stamp certain confirmation characteristics - otherwise we wouldn’t agonize for hours over choosing a stud to compliment a mare.
I like to keep older, sold working horse lines on or near papers - doc bar, Jackie bee, Bert, mr San peppy, colonel freckles are all on or close the papers on ours.
I think when horses started to be bred for very specific tasks we started to lose some of the soundness. Sometimes through confirmation but also something through breeding such specific desire and determination to run, turn, and work that they will put their own well being aside and work themselves into a hole. An acquaintance of mine had a cutting horse stud who crippled himself fairly young just working a cow into the ground, doing what he was bred to do and had an insatiable desire for.
The older solid athlete lines seem to have a sense of self preservation. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 447
Location: New York | streakysox - 2018-08-21 3:55 PM
ausranch - 2018-08-21 12:17 PM
SO much goes into making a sound old horse. But it has to start with breeding. Personally, I really like some Easy Jet in a pedigree for soundness.
Easy Jet is pretty hard to beat.
Love Easy Jet!!
https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/leetas+lil+thorn+bug
https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/sk+stacked+deck
First one is still running in the 1D and the second is retired sound |
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 Peecans
| I don't think our gelding with easy jet breeding (hes 26 or so and still works on the ranch) is any sounder than my modern breed horses he's just a tough SOB and he would hardly limp if his whole leg got cut off. |
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 Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | line bred Sugar Bars/Joe Reed II on top. Bottom is Fair Truckle, Nobbby (who had 40 starts) and Gill Cattle Co mares. 35 yrs old now and used hard in her heyday. Never lame, never sick, never supplemented and no maintenance issues at all. She's my very own Legend :)
Edited by teehaha 2018-08-26 3:50 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | teehaha - 2018-08-26 3:47 PM
line bred Sugar Bars/Joe Reed II on top. Bottom is Fair Truckle, Nobbby (who had 40 starts) and Gill Cattle Co mares. 35 yrs old now and used hard in her heyday. Never lame, never sick, never supplemented and no maintenance issues at all. She's my very own Legend :)
You haven't posted a picture of her lately, and we'd love to see her  |
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Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | Chandler's Mom - 2018-08-26 7:45 PM teehaha - 2018-08-26 3:47 PM line bred Sugar Bars/Joe Reed II on top. Bottom is Fair Truckle, Nobbby (who had 40 starts) and Gill Cattle Co mares. 35 yrs old now and used hard in her heyday. Never lame, never sick, never supplemented and no maintenance issues at all. She's my very own Legend :) You haven't posted a picture of her lately, and we'd love to see her
 
Edited by teehaha 2018-08-28 9:49 AM
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | teehaha - 2018-08-28 9:47 AM
Chandler's Mom - 2018-08-26 7:45 PM teehaha - 2018-08-26 3:47 PM line bred Sugar Bars/Joe Reed II on top. Bottom is Fair Truckle, Nobbby (who had 40 starts) and Gill Cattle Co mares. 35 yrs old now and used hard in her heyday. Never lame, never sick, never supplemented and no maintenance issues at all. She's my very own Legend :) You haven't posted a picture of her lately, and we'd love to see her
Seeing her makes me miss my Dan so very much. . . Been almost 5 weeks since he's been gone, but I know over his 39 years, he had a good life. She's a grand lady, and I hope you have her many more years in good health. |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| Conformation is such a huge factor in soundness. Look for big feet, big bones, thick muscles, and correct conformation. Too many current bloodlines are so straight in their stifles and have very refined bone structure. Some of my fav horses and most sound horses were older bloodlines: Eternal Sun, Easy Jet, Jet Deck, On The Money Red, Azure Te, Country Quick Dash, Firewater Flit. All of these were rodeo winners/1D horses. The OTMR never had an injection, passed every lameness exam, and had flawless xrays at the age of 10. The Azure Te mare also never needed injections and ran well into her 20's still clocking. The Jet Decks have all had so much heart, they wouldn't "tell you" when they were sore. You had to figure it out.
The walking vet bills have been Dash Ta Fames. Every one has had stifle problems, etc. Yes they are super athletes but they have been so expensive to "maintain" I have sold them all and I won't look at another one nor breed to one. |
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| My fg is completely sound, my bjo never got sore running, I’ve had good luck with my Dtf too ????. I don’t work my horses a ton, I ride them out , they have excellent conformation, great bone. Lots of trail riding in hills. I bought the Dtf knowing they come with problems but so far so good. adequan and legend. Good shoers. Less is more. I think for me it’s not breeding but how and what you do and of course conformation is the most important |
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