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 The One
Posts: 7998
    
Location: South Georgia | He's responding quite quickly to everything I am throwing at him. He was rested for approximately 8 months after coming off the track, so he's a 5 year old now. He is flexing laterally "okay" now, but he doesn't seem to understand vertical flexion and giving to the bit pretty much at all. I have been lunging him with reins ran between his legs, and he kind of gives a little to the bit in that scenario, but under saddle his head pushes into the bit pretty bad. I have tried to stand him still and hold stead pressure, waiting for him to give slightly to throw the reins back to him, but he is just not getting it. And with a whoa, he pokes his nose, braces against it, and takes a minute to stop. I'm exaggerating my body posture to get the whoa, and along with voice commands, but he just braces. He does stop, I guess I should clarify, but it's just so darn heavy. Any tips? It is frustrating to me, as I am a very light-handed rider, so I feel like I'm having to play tug of war with him and I hate it.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-04-23 11:37 AM
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | What kind of bit are you using? |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | I've tried a Myler D-ring and a smooth snaffle sweet six. |
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Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | You may want to try a short shank Ed Wright type bit, three piece or chain mouth. Race horses learn to lean on the bit and "pull the rider around the track" if that makes any sense. Sometimes a small amount of leverage and curb pressure will help the horse to figure out what you want, a loose german martingale can help too. I also like to get them very soft laterally using a rope halter with knots on the nose from the ground before I work on lateral flexion with a bit. |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | Thank you. I have a favorite shanked Myler that I love on pretty much every horse. I'll give it a shot. I just need him to give a little a few times and then I think he'll pick up what I am asking. He learns quick, but the vertical flexion is so confusing to him. |
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Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | It is confusing to some depending on how they were broke on the track. I had one mare that never really "got" vertical flexion, you could ride her in a rope halter, bit, whatever, and she would do anything you asked of her except for that. She carried herself really nice otherwise so I left well enough alone. |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | Yeah, I wouldn't mind it so much. He may never really be the rounded-back collected type like I like, but I do need some "feel" on his mouth to get an instant stop. I do not have that at this point. I need that before I add any speed. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Bit him up with a surcingle and a loomis. He'll get it. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| try to get the horse to give to one side and give to see if they get it. when you pull on both side a lot of times it causes a more of a struggle for green horses. |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | daisycake123 - 2018-04-24 12:16 PM try to get the horse to give to one side and give to see if they get it. when you pull on both side a lot of times it causes a more of a struggle for green horses. He gives laterally (to the sides) just fine. But, I need him to give vertically for a proper whoa.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-04-24 11:30 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | Have you tried a German martingale? |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | I don't have one, and I have this horse on a 30 day trial, so I'm not wanting to buy new stuff if it doesnt work out. LOL I agree though, it would help, I think. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Really interesting discussion on bits and a horse pushing into the bit... https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=8uRVmTA-Gic |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | |
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 Brains Behind the Operation...
Posts: 4543
Location: Arizona | This can be super frustrating with OTT horses. Clinton Anderson has a really useful series on retraining an OTTB that had some good tips on building vertical flexion, but unfortunately it's not available online. Basically though, just keep practicing your lateral whenever possible (and work towards the head not just giving side to side, but also staying lower when it comes around). Also encourage the head to come down and give at the poll whenever possible on the ground; while haltering, bridling, standing next to you, etc. Some unfortunately just take a lot longer to get it. I verbally tell my horses "put your head down" if they don't automatically give to pressure, sometimes that verbal cue is a good bridge between what you ask on the ground and what you ask in the saddle. Also try alternately bumping each rein if he isn't responding to equal/simultaneous pressure on both reins. It's easy for him to brace against steady pressure, but harder to lean on driving pressure that is quickly switching from one side of his nose to the other. Good luck! |
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The One
Posts: 7998
Location: South Georgia | PROGRESS! After watching that video, I tried a shanked Myler bit I have with a solid, but jointed in two spots type of mouthpiece and a loose curb. All of a sudden we had breaks and vertical flexion (not instantaneous, but FAR better). I was able to ride much softer. He got it. No opening of his mouth, pulling at my reins, etc. like he was doing with the various snaffles.
Similar to this one...
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/myler-7-flat-shank-low-port-comfort-snaffle/E013036/
Edited by horsegirl 2018-04-26 8:25 AM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
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Thank you for posting this. REALLY interesting. |
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Member
Posts: 8
| I had a very hard time with this and I tried an English neck stretcher. It's like a bungee cord that goes over the pole, goes through the bit, and then connects to the cinch like a tie down. This worked very well for her.
You can tighten it or loosen it depending on the horse and it just helped me communicate with her. I tried bitting her down and she never would give....she just braced against it and thought that's what I wanted. Combining bit pressure with pole pressure worked very well for her and the bungee gave a quicker release than I could. She also had control over how hard she wanted to pull because it just kept stretching and wouldn't let her brace against it like she did with the bit.
It's pretty cheap and worked very well for mine. Now she gives pretty good....but I will say when she runs she's always going to brace and get hard but at least she knows what I want. BTW I don't run in this because when their head is lowered it hangs and I was always worried she would get caught up in it. I only worked her slow this way. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| GLP - 2018-04-26 9:04 AM
Thank you for posting this. REALLY interesting.
I ordered one of the V correctional sliders, should be here Friday or Saturday. My colt has an old tongue injury and bitting him has been a challenge. I’ve been working him in a square correction that we happen to have and the difference was night and day so I’m super excited to try the Edwards.
The horse I’m actively running was also much much different to ride and I really felt like he was using his rear end better - I had him in a 3 piece and I think he was pushing back on it in the turns and falling on his front end a bit.
If I like the bit I have on the way I’m having a fire sale off the bit wall...my husband is pretty happy about that I think! |
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Tips to get OTT horse to back off/give to bit vertically