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Location: Illinois | I've been having some trouble riding my 4 year old, kind of running out of options on what it might be. She was riding fine, carrying herself correctly, and had great fluid motion. Then one day she just started refusing to go forward. She slow trots fine and walks fine, but asking her beyond that her head goes up and she tries to shut down. Teeth were just done and she was checked for ulcers and she's clear. She lunges fine, she'll extend trot & lope on the lunge line. But riding is another story. I got my saddle fit issue straightened out, but it didn't seem to help her. The more you ride her the worse she gets about it. So for now she's just being lunged to keep her moving. She's getting adjusted next week to see if that's the issue. To me it seems like she just doesn't want to use her rear and reach under herself. A lot of times she likes to just randomly duck left on you, and most of the time ignores that leg. Normally she's really light on her sides & easy to move. If you let her duck left she just keeps going around in a left spin unless you stop her. Put her through some EPM tests and she did fine. She absolutely refuses to stretch her back legs though, just enough to clean her feet is all I get. Won't stretch them towards the front either. Her front end stretches fine. If not a chiro issue anyone have any other ideas? I've attached a video of what she rides like now and a couple of how she was riding. It just changed in one day, she was doing so great & it's been weeks of this & I'm running out of ideas
Edited by JLazyT_perf_horses 2018-05-08 8:45 AM
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 Shelter Dog Lover
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| My thoughts are something physical is bothering her if she changed overnight. |
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Location: IL | JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-05-02 2:10 PM I've been having some trouble riding my 4 year old, kind of running out of options on what it might be. She was riding fine, carrying herself correctly, and had great fluid motion. Then one day she just started refusing to go forward. She slow trots fine and walks fine, but asking her beyond that her head goes up and she tries to shut down. Teeth were just done and she was checked for ulcers and she's clear. She lunges fine, she'll extend trot & lope on the lunge line. But riding is another story. I got my saddle fit issue straightened out, but it didn't seem to help her. The more you ride her the worse she gets about it. So for now she's just being lunged to keep her moving. She's getting adjusted next week to see if that's the issue. To me it seems like she just doesn't want to use her rear and reach under herself. A lot of times she likes to just randomly duck left on you, and most of the time ignores that leg. Normally she's really light on her sides & easy to move. If you let her duck left she just keeps going around in a left spin unless you stop her. Put her through some EPM tests and she did fine. She absolutely refuses to stretch her back legs though, just enough to clean her feet is all I get. Won't stretch them towards the front either. Her front end stretches fine. If not a chiro issue anyone have any other ideas? I've attached a video of what she rides like now and a couple of how she was riding. It just changed in one day, she was doing so great & it's been weeks of this & I'm running out of ideas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX6DyvNyX-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLaWYMCSylA... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMLP3wHeY64
Has a vet done a full lameness exam to rule out hocks, stifles, back issues, hind feet soreness. Also she may not have ulcers in her stomach, but could get ulcers in the hindgut. I've seen horses stop turning barrels for that. Do you always ride her around so collected up? That can cause issues too. I see she is really collected in that martingale and she's only 4 right? |
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I just read the headlines
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| Well, I may be way off base but, whenever the dog is right behind her she seems to be focused on where he is, but as soon as he backs off she seems easier to keep loping. In the other to videos there was no dog that I could see. |
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Expert
Posts: 1516
Location: Illinois | merdth6 - 2018-05-02 2:26 PM
JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-05-02 2:10 PM I've been having some trouble riding my 4 year old, kind of running out of options on what it might be. She was riding fine, carrying herself correctly, and had great fluid motion. Then one day she just started refusing to go forward. She slow trots fine and walks fine, but asking her beyond that her head goes up and she tries to shut down. Teeth were just done and she was checked for ulcers and she's clear. She lunges fine, she'll extend trot & lope on the lunge line. But riding is another story. I got my saddle fit issue straightened out, but it didn't seem to help her. The more you ride her the worse she gets about it. So for now she's just being lunged to keep her moving. She's getting adjusted next week to see if that's the issue. To me it seems like she just doesn't want to use her rear and reach under herself. A lot of times she likes to just randomly duck left on you, and most of the time ignores that leg. Normally she's really light on her sides & easy to move. If you let her duck left she just keeps going around in a left spin unless you stop her. Put her through some EPM tests and she did fine. She absolutely refuses to stretch her back legs though, just enough to clean her feet is all I get. Won't stretch them towards the front either. Her front end stretches fine. If not a chiro issue anyone have any other ideas? I've attached a video of what she rides like now and a couple of how she was riding. It just changed in one day, she was doing so great & it's been weeks of this & I'm running out of ideas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX6DyvNyX-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLaWYMCSylA... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMLP3wHeY64
Yes she's just now 4, she was always ridden in a martingale before I got her. I don't like her riding that way all the time, she rides like that with or without one. The martingale is super long in that video, she can put her head up pretty high before it makes contact. I set it that way so that she can learn to let her nose in front of her but I can still collect her if I need to. I ride with it off more than I do on. The other day I was able to get her to get a decent trot stride, but not an extended one. She extends and does a floaty long trot on the lunge line & playing in the pasture. She runs around fine by herself, it's just when she's riding. One of the people I use for adjustments watched and thought maybe her SI was the issue, but couldn't tell given the quality of the video. My vet watched the video and I sent videos of me putting her through the EPM tests and vet suggested chiro first. She's been adjusted regularly by previous owner, I've had her for 8 months and haven't adjusted. My lameness vet is a 4 hour drive so if getting her adjusted isn't the solution, he will be my next stop. I've had bad experiences with the local vet and lameness/legs so I try not to go to them for that. |
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Location: Illinois | GLP - 2018-05-02 2:34 PM
Well, I may be way off base but, whenever the dog is right behind her she seems to be focused on where he is, but as soon as he backs off she seems easier to keep loping. In the other to videos there was no dog that I could see.
The dog runs around right on her heels when she lunges and runs around her while tied to the trailer & she never pays any attention to her. The dog tends to run up to her when I cluck or kiss to her, which is also the same time she starts shutting down. The last 2 times I've ridden her my dog wasn't there & she still does the same thing. |
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Location: Texas | I would take the martingale off, and put her behind some cows to free her up and get her relaxed. It will make them sore riding around like that ALL THE TIME. |
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Location: Alabama | tracies - 2018-05-02 3:00 PM
I would take the martingale off, and put her behind some cows to free her up and get her relaxed. It will make them sore riding around like that ALL THE TIME.
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Location: IL | tracies - 2018-05-02 3:00 PM I would take the martingale off, and put her behind some cows to free her up and get her relaxed. It will make them sore riding around like that ALL THE TIME.
I totally agree, she needs to know how to carry herself without the martingales on and learn to drop her head and neck on her own. She I'm sure has some soreness going on, but I would start with the vet and martingales off. |
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Location: Illinois | tracies - 2018-05-02 3:00 PM
I would take the martingale off, and put her behind some cows to free her up and get her relaxed. It will make them sore riding around like that ALL THE TIME.
I've only ridden her maybe a dozen times in the 8 months I've had her, and the majority has been without the martingale as I stated above. I wouldn't think that much would make her sore, 4 of those rides were after she started doing this. I quit riding her because if it's a pain issue I don't want to make it worse. I don't have access to cows, but I agree with you on doing something to get her relaxed and was going to try to take her to the state park down the road and hit some trails. I haven't lined up someone to go and I'm not taking an anxious colt that snorts at her own shadow out for the first time alone lol. I tried "throwing her away" like a cutter when I rode last night, but she still carries her face like she's over bridled. Something I think she just needs time to figure out she doesn't always have to do. |
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 Some Kind of Trouble
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| Almost the exact issues my EPM horse showed.. did a vet do a neurological exam? |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | This horse looks very bored and probably needs out of the arena.. |
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Posts: 1516
Location: Illinois | Dodge629 - 2018-05-02 3:16 PM
Almost the exact issues my EPM horse showed.. did a vet do a neurological exam?
Vet didn't come out but we did a face time video while he had me move her around and do different maneuvers & things. Didn't think it was EPM, since she can move her hind end around no problem, move her front end, lunges fine, trots straight line fine, etc. She can lope a circle on the lunge line just fine, but can't seem to move with a rider. That was why it was suggested have her adjusted before making the long haul to the vet. If an adjustment isn't the answer, she will be going to see him. But he didn't give me any reason to believe it was EPM from what he saw. He felt like she most likely needs adjusted in the hind end from watching this video. And she was riding fine at the start of the ride this started, it was the end of the ride where she started refusing. A ride I had spent doing things like refreshing rollbacks, turning around on her rear, etc. He thinks she probably just tweaked something the right way & hopes an adjustment will fix it. If not he wants to look at her SI as a lot of horses with SI issues carry themselves just fine until they're ridden |
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Location: Illinois | Also if you really watch her back end, when going to the left she short strides the back right and is very stiff. And loping to the right she never wants to take the correct lead, she usually goes on the left lead which she knows the difference and typically picks up correctly when asked. This is the leg she's worst about trying to stretch, she either tries to pull it away or hops away from me on the other leg. When I stretched it forward last night it wouldn't come even half as far forward as she'll bring the right one. I held it to the point it would go without pulling or forcing and after about 10 seconds there was a significant pop in her hip area and the leg came about 6"-8" more forward on it own and then she did a lot of licking & chewing. That was after I rode her for a while to see if there was any change after being off and lunging a few days. That again makes me lean more towards chiropractic issue than a neurological issue. |
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Location: California | Sockittoemred - 2018-05-02 1:11 PM
tracies - 2018-05-02 3:00 PM
I would take the martingale off, and put her behind some cows to free her up and get her relaxed. It will make them sore riding around like that ALL THE TIME.
This.
This. Not saying it in a rude context, but when one starts losing forward motion, always always take off martingales and draw reins and go back to basics. There’s no point in those tools when the horse won’t even move out freely. |
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Some Kind of Trouble
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| JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-05-02 2:54 PM Also if you really watch her back end, when going to the left she short strides the back right and is very stiff. And loping to the right she never wants to take the correct lead, she usually goes on the left lead which she knows the difference and typically picks up correctly when asked. This is the leg she's worst about trying to stretch, she either tries to pull it away or hops away from me on the other leg. When I stretched it forward last night it wouldn't come even half as far forward as she'll bring the right one. I held it to the point it would go without pulling or forcing and after about 10 seconds there was a significant pop in her hip area and the leg came about 6"-8" more forward on it own and then she did a lot of licking & chewing. That was after I rode her for a while to see if there was any change after being off and lunging a few days. That again makes me lean more towards chiropractic issue than a neurological issue.
Took 4 vets to diagnose mine... one hind leg is effected because the EPM attacked the nerves that control it. Drags the toe, shorter stride, won't pick up for the farrier, can't back a straight line because one side is weak. Passed all the "at home" EPM tests.. it wasn't a typical case. His damage is now permanent because it took so long to find out and get him treatment. Just don't wish the same to happen to anyone else! |
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 Too Skinny
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Location: LA Lower Alabama | Sore, lame or not I would take the headgear off and go back to every few steps getting collection and releasing when she does it correctly. I didn't watch all of the videos because I can't see much but my gut says she is about to quit you. I feel like she is bracing with frustration rather than collecting properly but I cant see your reins and hands well in the video. Its just a personal preference that I do not want them to flex past a certain point though. I know Clinton Anderson prefers what I consider extreme flex and he makes way more money than me  |
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Married to a Louie Lover
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| How long has she been under saddle? I see a frustrated horse who’s young and pushing your buttons.
Could be chiro, could be something like EPM - could be a sh!thead colt moment testing you.
I would get the chiro out to cover that base, and discuss the possibility of EPM with them, not the same as a vets diagnosis, but they should be able to help look for neoro type signs too since your vet is a hike away.
Then I would take the headgear off and work on relaxed and forward. If she wants to quit on you drive her forward in no uncertain terms. When in doubt add leg - never want to ride with more hand than leg. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
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| *almost there* - 2018-05-02 4:09 PM
Sockittoemred - 2018-05-02 1:11 PM
tracies - 2018-05-02 3:00 PM
I would take the martingale off, and put her behind some cows to free her up and get her relaxed. It will make them sore riding around like that ALL THE TIME.
This.
This. Not saying it in a rude context, but when one starts losing forward motion, always always take off martingales and draw reins and go back to basics. There’s no point in those tools when the horse won’t even move out freely.
This.... and I say that because my mare loves to work BUT when I first broke her out, she would get easily frustrated and I took her on the trails. and we just rode. Weaved trees, got the mail, up and down hills, whatever I could do. She needed confidence under saddle. Just riding.
Started collection and she did great. She will ball up if I get constricted with her. |
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| id have them check her pelvis. she could have slipped, rolled into something, or been kicked leading to a bruise, ligament & muscle damage or even a fracture. If it's all in her hind end and seems even on both sides and probably wouldn't hurt to get it looked at. |
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 Loves to compete
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Location: Oakdale, CA | tracies - 2018-05-02 1:00 PM I would take the martingale off, and put her behind some cows to free her up and get her relaxed. It will make them sore riding around like that ALL THE TIME.
this......I had a gelding last year all of the sudden get bored in the arena. I had to get real creative with him..................took about 4 ish months. he is fine now. when I ride in the arena I have a purpose and short challenging things...... I did take him to the vet and he was fine.........these are my thoughts............yes he went to completely willing to stopping and like hell no.........................thankgoodness I got past it............ |
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 Elite Veteran
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Location: MO | Check the SI ands possibly the psoas muscle. My horse was diagnosed 2 years ago as "Hunter's Bump". Injexted the SI, chiro work and some time off, then back to work. All was going well last year with hock injections about 4 months in, and until this year when he started blowing off every barrel and just was being a pain to ride and run, but he wasn't exhibiting any signs of ACTUAL lameness out in the field and even for a while running/working We knew something was up though, and one night working at home he showed us. He short strided with his back left only and then every once in a while would skip on that foot, drag the toe a little when he'd stop. Just an odd misstep, but it looked like a pain issue, and we thought pelvis because of his history. We wanted a full work up and went to a superb lamenss vet in our area. We started of with basics to hope to avoid getting too invasive. Injected the hocks and decided on the chiro to see if we couldn't get it worked out. The chiro and the vet talked after his two visits. He def got more extension out of him but he was only at about 85% and you could judt tell there was something still there. He would flat run in the field, something we hadn't seen in a long time. We knew he was on the right path, but again out in the field, inconsistently, he would take a wierd grabbing up step. Like if you hurt your sciatic and it stings every once in a while. We talked to the vet that night after getting some video, etc
Chiro work can only get you so far. I just spent about 5 weeks going through this whole ordeal, and both the chiro and vet agreed after the chriio visits, the SI injection was the next step.I knew in my gut we should have just went ahead and did it becasue of the history but sticking two 8" needles down into the largest joint just didn't sound appealing, and I didn't want to just jump to that if the chiro work helped. We went back to light riding for 3 days the day after the injection (injection was last Wednesday), and then he returned to full work Monday. Please say a prayer that all goes well, but every day he has just gotten better, and last night we were able to cruise through a pattern. It was amazing to see the difference. He's a completley different horse.
That's my experience and some of what you are saying just sounds like an SI issue to me. I would take the head gear off too for a bit and see if it helps, chiro, but at the end of the day....do what your vet and gut tells you. |
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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: somewhere in the south | Maybe check for kissing spine? My daughter's horse was a great, smooth riding horse that started this type of behavior and we tried alot of tests before the vet discovered the very start of the kissing spine! Injections have helped !!! |
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Veteran
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| I agree with previous posters about taking the excess head gear off and letting her stretch out and learn to carry herself.
She looks like she has pelvic pain. I would actually have the vet come out and not just video chat you. Doesn't do a whole lot if they can't be hands on. |
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Expert
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Location: Illinois | turnedout - 2018-05-03 3:58 PM
I agree with previous posters about taking the excess head gear off and letting her stretch out and learn to carry herself.
She looks like she has pelvic pain. I would actually have the vet come out and not just video chat you. Doesn't do a whole lot if they can't be hands on.
We just did the video chat because of the fact that he is about 250 miles away and we were trying to decide if it was an EPM issue, lameness issue, or potentially a chiropractic issue. He felt she moved fine enough in the video, which someone was holding while I was maneuvering, to make the plan to have her adjusted before I made the trip. If he felt it was something that needed immediate addressing vet wise he would have scheduled me to come as soon as possible. He watched me do all the maneuvers he explained over the phone, crossing over, backing straight lines, tail tug, etc and she did fine. Watched me stretch her out and I told him what my chiro thought and he agreed upon what he saw that we should try that first. They both feel that since she lunges fine its most likely a pelvic rotation or SI issue. I will get back on her and continue to ride her without the martingale on. As I stated before I ride her more without it than I do with it and the issue remains the same both ways. I agree with her needing to get her nose out and freed up, that's why I took it off. It was used in this video because my other bridles were locked in my other trailer and I didn't have the keys on me, this was hanging in the tack room so I set the martingale & reins so it was as loose as it would go & just rode with what I had. It was the only snaffle available, I wasn't planning on riding but someone was out to video so I took advantage of it. She's always been ridden bridled up and holds her head that way the minute she feels any rein contact so it's just an old habit that will have to get broken with time. I have a tentative appointment with my vet if the adjustment doesn't solve the issue. For now they both told me to try to keep riding her, just not hard and stretch her & see if there's any difference over a period of a few days until the adjustment. I plan on trying to just leave her alone & ride around as best I can getting her to stretch out |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Get her out of the arena witout the martingale let her relax, do something else with her take her trail riding, shes bored and with the way your having to kick and kick and kick her to get her to move over she looks dead sided to me as well as being bored.. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Collection doesn’t come from tieing a horses head down, especially a 4 year old. My mare is 8 and we’re still working on keeping her collected. We start collection at a walk and then a trot, you’d be surprised how long it can take even at a walk. Best thing I ever did was take lessons with a dressage trainer for years, and I’m still learning. Not knocking your horse at all but I hate to see young horses with their heads tied down, many people think that’s collection and it’s not.
I had a mare with si pain, after chiro and acupuncture we decided to inject her. Didn’t see a difference right away but eventually she felt much much better, I also give her turmeric daily for inflammation. Good luck.
Edited by RnRJack 2018-05-05 10:08 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Lost in the swamps | We had a horse exhibiting these issues after a slip in the pasture. Esp picking the hind feet up. Got to the point to where you could not clean them and he would physically shake like he was in pain. Had the owner get the Vet and Chiro out and his si was inflamed. Just had his si injected yesterday.
Edited by imturnin3 2018-05-06 10:16 AM
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Location: in the ozone | Horse is uncomfortable & unhappy. Also agree get rid of the martingale and out of the arena. Pain will cause them to refuse to go forward. I know you've considered EPM, also check into Lymes & PSSM |
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Expert
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Location: Illinois | I have kept a PHT sheet on her for a good amount of time over the weekend and stretched her Friday night and she had pretty much full range of motion with that back right leg again. Wednesday it had popped when I stretched it towards her front foot. So I rode her over the weekend after being off since Wednesday and she rode perfect. Was loose & moved out just fine. So I'm guessing it in fact was an adjustment issue. She's still getting adjusted this weekend to be sure, but so far she's riding back to normal just from that. The martingale was off, but like I said before I typically don't ride her in one because I've been trying to get her to get her nose out & quit having her face tucked all the time. It just was all I had to ride her in that night & was as loose as it would go, it's not something I ride her in all the time. If she goes back to acting like this I'll reevaluate at that time. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Shushi - 2018-05-03 9:29 AM
Check the SI ands possibly the psoas muscle. My horse was diagnosed 2 years ago as "Hunter's Bump". Injexted the SI, chiro work and some time off, then back to work. All was going well last year with hock injections about 4 months in, and until this year when he started blowing off every barrel and just was being a pain to ride and run, but he wasn't exhibiting any signs of ACTUAL lameness out in the field and even for a while running/working We knew something was up though, and one night working at home he showed us. He short strided with his back left only and then every once in a while would skip on that foot, drag the toe a little when he'd stop. Just an odd misstep, but it looked like a pain issue, and we thought pelvis because of his history. We wanted a full work up and went to a superb lamenss vet in our area. We started of with basics to hope to avoid getting too invasive. Injected the hocks and decided on the chiro to see if we couldn't get it worked out. The chiro and the vet talked after his two visits. He def got more extension out of him but he was only at about 85% and you could judt tell there was something still there. He would flat run in the field, something we hadn't seen in a long time. We knew he was on the right path, but again out in the field, inconsistently, he would take a wierd grabbing up step. Like if you hurt your sciatic and it stings every once in a while. We talked to the vet that night after getting some video, etc
Chiro work can only get you so far. I just spent about 5 weeks going through this whole ordeal, and both the chiro and vet agreed after the chriio visits, the SI injection was the next step.I knew in my gut we should have just went ahead and did it becasue of the history but sticking two 8" needles down into the largest joint just didn't sound appealing, and I didn't want to just jump to that if the chiro work helped. We went back to light riding for 3 days the day after the injection (injection was last Wednesday), and then he returned to full work Monday. Please say a prayer that all goes well, but every day he has just gotten better, and last night we were able to cruise through a pattern. It was amazing to see the difference. He's a completley different horse.
That's my experience and some of what you are saying just sounds like an SI issue to me. I would take the head gear off too for a bit and see if it helps, chiro, but at the end of the day....do what your vet and gut tells you.
my mare has been off for almost 2 years due to a fractured pelvis.. Once it healed last spring after 6 months stall rest, it was discovered she had a very sore psoas muscle and a bone spur in her SI. 9 months of a long rehab I'm hoping to finally run her in a couple weeks. The si injection is the only thing that has really helped in my situation. That and lunging over ground poles while she worked long and low in a lunging system for the first 2 months of the rehab. Then we switched between lunging and gradual riding. She needed major restrengthening and was over all very weak after the stall rest. She had her si done last September then 6 months later this past March. Chiro has helped but also Magna wave treatments because there unfortunately is nothing that will penetrate deep enough to the psoas muscle. I'm sure you know that frustration. I hope you have good luck luck with your horse! Fingers crossed for us both! |
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Any one have any thoughts on this?