joemama - 2018-05-05 12:00 PM Looking for something to complain about?

NJJ - 2018-05-05 12:49 PM I don't see anyone "complaining" .... just asking legitimate questions! However, I would post those questions to the manufacturers.  

Southtxponygirl - 2018-05-05 1:13 PM


Did'nt see any complaining either, just questions, but I dont see where the questions will get much of a answer here.. Like NJJ and another BB said you probably really need to take it up with the manufacturers I bet they can answer your question real quick. 

Bear - 2018-05-05 2:58 PM

I must be scientifically proven, because it is featured in
the most prestigious scientific journal in the world, “The Spanish Journal of Ozone Therapy”.
How could you go wrong? At $20K a pop, or thereabouts, I’d consider it a bargain.

Bear - 2018-05-05 4:09 PM

Anecdotes can not prove efficacy. Careful scientific study can. If I have money to burn and an injury prone horse, I might buy one just to satisfy my chttp://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/equine-magnetic-therapy-positives-and-negativesuriosity..

I’m not going to spend several thousand dollars on an unproven device because of endorsements or goosebumps.

I’m not saying they don’t work. I’m not saying they do. I’m saying that I’m skeptical.

Also, I think people should make a distinction between “pain relief” and improved healing.

Like I said, there are an awful lot of used magnawaves and theraplates out there. Logic and reason makes me wonder why.

Here’s a pretty decent article dealing with the pros and cons of equine magnetic therapy:
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/equine-magnetic-therapy-positives-...

joemama - 2018-05-05 4:41 PM Cant disagree with any of that.

runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-10 1:09 PM It's not a gimmick. It does help muscle soreness. Get hurt and try it on yourself and you can feel the muscles loosen up so you can move. It's great for injury but is a lil light for some things I'd rather just go shock wave one. It's a useful tool but it doesn't do anymore than a good deep tissue massage. Also, to really relieve pain it needs to be used a few days in a row. Lots of trainers have one they use weekly for soreness from just galloping and works. It's helpful and has it's place....no gimmick. To me therapies like this can be put in the same category as mudding a horse's leg. It makes them feel slightly better.

Runnincat - 2018-05-10 4:18 PM


runfastturnsmooth - you are correct!  Its not a gimmick.  A gimmick (in my opinion) is static field magnetic therapy NOT pulsating magnetic therapy such as the MagnaWave.  I cannot proclaim its gimmickness when it comes to how we want to treat our horses but there are studies done on humans with PULSATING magnetic therapy.  HUGE DIFFERENCE. 

1DSoon - 2018-05-11 9:25 AM  That's the beauty of veterinary gimmicks. 





They horse can't tell you it doesn't work. 



 

Runnincat - 2018-05-11 11:21 AM


Oh but they can!  You just have to listen. 

runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-11 8:37 AM


You usually don't see gimmicks wrote on the stall charts daily and weekly for Kentucky Derby and All American winners lol
They don't waste a groom's or assistant trainers time magna waving one b/c its a gimick....time is money to those ppl.

Does it fix a broke leg? No.

Is it gonna repair a tore tendon? No.

Is gonna make them feel better after hard works? Yes, you can visibly see and feel the difference. Especially if they have a sore neck from fighting the rig in the gates. It straight makes one be able to move eat and act normal afterwards. That's no gimmick and its a valuable therapy tool when a horse doesn't wanna eat hay drink or eat bc it's neck is sore.

Bear - 2018-05-12 7:55 PM



I’m always amused by people who waste tens of thousands of dollars on this therapy, yet they can’t seem to spend $150 to have their horses teeth done.

Bear - 2018-05-13 9:41 PM

Joe Mauer makes about $500,000 a week, year round. He can afford to buy $10-20k gimmicks on the outside chance it might make his sore knee feel better. If it doesn’t work, he can throw it away or give it away. Same with NFL quarterbacks that make 8 figure incomes.

Bear - 2018-05-14 11:36 AM If a product or treatment makes unsubstantiated claims to cure a disease or heal an injury, then I call it a gimmick. Anecdotes and testimonials are not scientific evidence. I would love it if static magnetic therapy or pulsed electromagnetic therapy was shown to cure disease or accelerate healing to the extent that the promoters, manufacturers, or sellers claim. Unfortunately, their claims lack sound evidence. Now if you are talking about temporary relief of pain, I think that’s quite possible. If it’s worth $50 to you, then by all means give it a try. If you find yourself wanting to use one of these often enough, then consider buying one. Like I said, don’t buy a new one. There are hundreds of minimally used machines available out there, right next to the theraplates. Maybe you can get a package deal and get a Magna wave/Theraplate combo for a big discount, since many Theraplate users are also susceptible to the same mystique.

Bear - 2018-05-12 7:55 PM


Like I said, I make a distinction between pain relief and healing.
That’s a huge distinction. Think about that.
I’m always amused by people who waste tens of thousands of dollars on this therapy, yet they can’t seem to spend $150 to have their horses teeth done.

This is an amusing rebuke by a skeptic of this scam:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/pulsed-electromagnetic-field-snake-...
Agreed with the "relief vs healing". I have used it on multiple horses, and myself. I had back surgery a few years ago and used it before and after the surgery. It did not heal my back, just provided some temporary relief.

Mzbradford - 2018-05-14 12:13 PM


I can see where things like this can offer temporary relief of pain.
I’m not some science “purist” myself, in fact. I just happen to believe that sound scientific principles based on the scientific method, logic, reason, facts, and analysis are very powerful tools.
I happen to THINK magnetic blankets might make my horse feel better, but I cannot say that sound scientific evidence supports my notion. My magnetic blanket might cost $300, and I was willing to give it a try.
There are a lot of people out there selling junk science for profit, and good for them, but when I recognize it on a thread like this I feel obligated to comment...not for my own good, but to serve as a warning to anyone willing to listen. Many times in these instances, the promoters of these dubious modalities will be outraged by my comments.
Why? Because they, or their friends, are selling the gimmick or snake oil.

runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-14 5:42 AM


That's great Good for those guys I guess....

Most horse ppl don't buy these to use on themselves. Most ppl don't own these machines. A vet, trainer, or equine chiro/massage/therapy person does. We vet wrap ourselves, take pain meds and go back to work.

But to say it's a gimmick for vet medicine is an inaccurate statement.

That's like saying an injection is a gimmick....

Do injections heal broken bones or tore tendons? No

Do they make a horse feel better? Yes

A magnawave treatment costs about 40-50$ per session for your horse depending on your location. That's cheaper than an antibiotic, a steroid, and a sedative. If your saying the average joe can't afford it, then the average joe can't afford injections either.

FLITASTIC - 2018-05-14 1:03 PM


Naw, antibiotics are cheap ( The ones my vet gave me are 100.00 for 500 pills), Steroids are REALLY CHEAP 100cc bottle of Dex cost me 9.00, and Sedatives are in the Middle. My bottle of Ace (50cc bottle) cost me 19.00. The difference is, those medications WORK and money well spent.

runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-14 11:15 AM


NO sweetie, I was talking about what are in the cheapest version of an injection minus HA

Not orally or individually but as an injection bc some ppl believe injections are gimmicks and they have the "science" to prove it.

charlenenh - 2018-05-18 9:25 AM Super easy to find research and scientific evidence on PEMF including articles by NASA, docs, vets. Lot and lots of studies done

Runnincat - 2018-05-18 2:39 PM  Exposure to pulsed magnetic fields in the treatment of plantar ulcers in leprosy patients--a pilot, randomized, double-blind, controlled clinical trial.







Just an example of some of the things you can find in the NCBI regarding PEMF. 



I am a HUGE skeptic of alternative therapies and believe a qualified, educated, seasoned veteranarian is an absolute necessity.  I didnt buy into the static magnetic blankets, the "shake plates", and snake oil treatments.  I am a believer in PEMF, however, due to my own personal experiences.

1DSoon - 2018-05-18 4:47 PM Seriously?



 

Bear - 2018-05-18 6:13 PM




7. If they are so good, why are so many used devices being sold for a fraction of their purchase price?

joemama - 2018-05-18 6:18 PM


Where are all these machines?

Runnincat - 2018-05-18 6:45 PM Oh sorry if that was a little over your head.  I posted it only as an example of a study that went into the healing properties of ulcers.  I am thinking on a cellular level and I should remember not everyone is versed.  Seriously, there are more studies out there that would demonstrate effects of a PEMF that would be easier to relate too.  Seriously pulsating electromagnetic fields do not have the same properties as static electromagnetic fields.  Seriously they do not affect cells the same way.  Again, my apologies if the correlation is a reach. 

Bear - 2018-05-18 6:13 PM An abstract from an article published in the widely acclaimed “Madras Institute of Magnetobiology”, comparing the rate of healing in foot ulcers of patients with Leprosy. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that 99.999% of serious veterinary and human medical practitioners have never read or even heard heard of this journal. Secondly, if you are going to draw the conclusion that PEMF accelerates healing, why select foot ulcers in people with leprosy? Of the thousands of scientific journals to draw from you selected the one that rates right above the “Journal of Irreproducable Results”. The fact that someone goes through the trouble of posting this as the best scientific evidence in support of PEMF therapy as a modality to promote healing speaks for itself. The bottom line is that the scientific evidence in support of PEMF therapy is, at best, tenuous. For the average person contemplating investing thousands of dollars (or even $50) here are some quick ways of deciding quack issues are at play without having to attempt to wade through voluminous publications on the subject: 1. There is no reasonable modus operandi. 2. Failure to find widespread application by trained physicians or veterinarians. 3. Failure to be published in a major peer-review medical journal. 4. Reliance upon testimonials, including by scientists and physicians. 5. The results are contrary to a large body of experimental, published results. 6. Always ask yourself why someone is promoting one of these controversial, expensive devices. What is their motive? 7. If they are so good, why are so many used devices being sold for a fraction of their purchase price?

Runnincat - 2018-05-18 5:45 PM


Oh sorry if that was a little over your head.  I posted it only as an example of a study that went into the healing properties of ulcers.  I am thinking on a cellular level and I should remember not everyone is versed.  Seriously, there are more studies out there that would demonstrate effects of a PEMF that would be easier to relate too.  Seriously pulsating electromagnetic fields do not have the same properties as static electromagnetic fields.  Seriously they do not affect cells the same way.  Again, my apologies if the correlation is a reach. 

Runnincat - 2018-05-18 6:50 PM


FIrst off, I found the study on the NCBI, which I used as an example of different studies out there.  There are thousands out there so I suppose I could search through and find something that was done by a more accredited organization.  Let me see....just off the top of my head Roger Stupp, MD Professor of Neurologic Surgery, Neurology and Oncology at Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University Chicago.  I dont know what study he was published under but you may want to look that up.    There are many published articles out there but I believe Roger Stupp, MD refers to it as "out of the box" type therapy.  So with that I believe you are correct in your description of what you say it doesnt meet. 

Secondly, I didnt say I supported the devices, in fact, I said that I didnt know if the devices actually worked on horses.  I dont know that.  But it is something I am more open to believing other than a shake plate or static magnets.  That is what I said.

Thirdly, I believe that pulsating magnetic fields do have some sort of effect at a cellular level where as the static magnets do not.  Basically because of how a pulsating magnetic field works.  

I cannot argue or debate the coils, the blankets, the wraps, etc.  I do not know.  But my stance would be pulsating magnetic fields have an effect on cellular function.  Now whether you want to call it healing, pain relief, whatever, that is fine.  And if you want to stand on the fact that different studies do not meet the medical requirements to be "in the box", then okay, I can see that from a medical stand point.

We are getting lost in the equipment, which I said I didnt know....we are getting lost in a blanket that they sell for lots of money...which I said I didnt know.  So let me get this straight... you do not believe a pulsating magnetic field has any bearing on cellular function???  So basically I believe in stupid studies that are contrary to large body of evidence.

 

Bear - 2018-05-18 6:59 PM Again, and think about this: “Correlation does not imply causation”. Unless you have an unlimited budget, I would recommend staying “within the box”. Leave the “outside of the box” modalities for fools to squander their money.