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Veteran
Posts: 107
| Okay, so I've pretty much decided that I'm going to try a chain mouthpiece on my horse as she tends to be on the stiffer side during competitive runs. Any suggestions on good ones to try? I've tried so so so many bits so I'm hoping a chain will finally suit both her and me.
I have no idea how much gag I should have on it...I've tried some "no gag" options and they didn't really work for us. Ugh, I'm just so tired of trying to find her something that works. I've tried about 4-5 bits, but I'm a broke college student so I need to find something that she will like to compete in so I can save some of my money for entry fees! |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
 
| I firmly believe no bit solves all problems. Are you sure stiffness is coming from the bit, or does she need chiropractic work, teeth done, or just to be taken back to the basics and softened?
Part of developing ourselves as riders and horsemen is understanding how bits function and developing feel through our hands of the horses mouth. Understanding how the bit is working in the horses mouth and how they are reacting makes a huge difference in bit choice - and how many you have to go through before you find one that works.
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
 
Location: Somewhere around here | 4-5 bits. Hahaha sorry, I'm not laughing at your problem but I think I've tried 20 bits on my horse and we're finally seeing the light.
I'd check for any physical problems or do a horse hair analysis to see if something is off. That helped my horse immensely. If there's is little no physical problems, maybe you're horse has some training holes? Maybe from you or previous owners? Not trying to hurt feelings, just putting it out there.
Are you also using a home bit/no barrel work bit? I keep my horse in a draw bit for trails, galloping, and simple arena work but I use a short shank stabilizer bit for barrels. I'll probably have to get the same bit in a longer shank for actually running through the barrels and pushing him, but whatever works, works. I also have to use aggressive spurs while I'm doing a barrel run on him, because he ignores my light spurs, but I use my light spurs for trails, galloping, and simple arena work. Maybe that might help you as well? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | Is she grabbing the bit going into the turn and getting strong....or just stiff through the turn? If shes stiff your going to want Gag. You may try a 3 piece chain. I find chains just to be a little too flimsy personally, but I love the 3 piece. In all honest I would try a no hit bit. It has made a world of difference on my colt who was strong and stiff (just in everyday riding, not so much in a turn). Kathy James, Ed Wright, or a cervi would be others that I would try. To me these are staples and I can use them on about anything. I mostly use 3 piece twisted wire w/ dog bone in these.
Also, knowing what bits you have used on her that she somewhat liked would be helpful. I would assume shes probably got a harder mouth, but hard to tell without knowing what you have used. |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
| OhMax - 2018-05-07 6:16 AM
I firmly believe no bit solves all problems. Are you sure stiffness is coming from the bit, or does she need chiropractic work, teeth done, or just to be taken back to the basics and softened?
Part of developing ourselves as riders and horsemen is understanding how bits function and developing feel through our hands of the horses mouth. Understanding how the bit is working in the horses mouth and how they are reacting makes a huge difference in bit choice - and how many you have to go through before you find one that works.
Teeth have been done. Not a believer in chiropractic but I am going to get an equine massage set up for her. She's soft when working on basics, its in the competition environment/in the heat of a run she tends to stiffen up. |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
| TheDutchMan01 - 2018-05-07 8:17 AM
Is she grabbing the bit going into the turn and getting strong....or just stiff through the turn? If shes stiff your going to want Gag. You may try a 3 piece chain. I find chains just to be a little too flimsy personally, but I love the 3 piece. In all honest I would try a no hit bit. It has made a world of difference on my colt who was strong and stiff (just in everyday riding, not so much in a turn). Kathy James, Ed Wright, or a cervi would be others that I would try. To me these are staples and I can use them on about anything. I mostly use 3 piece twisted wire w/ dog bone in these.
Also, knowing what bits you have used on her that she somewhat liked would be helpful. I would assume shes probably got a harder mouth, but hard to tell without knowing what you have used.
I know 5 bits isn't a ton but nice bits are so expensive and I don't come from a horse family so we don't have a ton of extras lying around. She can get a little grabby with the bit going into a turn, but through slow work I have pretty much resolved that issue.
I wouldn't say she's necessarily hard mouthed, more like somewhere in between hard and soft. She doesn't like an over-bearing bit with super long shanks that is harsh. But when we get ready to run/run in a competitive setting and she starts to get a little strong, then I obviously need something that does have a little control so I can bring her back to me. So I have to try and find that perfect middle bit that isn't harsh, but also gives me a little control if needed, lol.
And she works fine in the bits that I have tried her in but I just haven't found that one that I can feel her really click with and accept, if that makes sense.
I have tried:
-Jr. cowhorse bits
-Sherry Cervi with limited gag
-Martha Josey start to finish bit
-Currently trying a 3-piece bit with medium gag and slightly longer shanks. Sort of like this:
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/westen-at-dot-dogbone-long-slidin... |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
| *EDIT*
And I should mention, my mare isn't stiff like a 2x4 board going around a barrel, but you can tell that her turns could be a bit more fluid. Not looking for a bit to fix all of our problems (I'll continue to work on basics, and stretching, and flexion) but I'm just looking for a competition bit that will encourage her to bend as we go around the barrel. :) |
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 Scooters Savior
Location: "Si Fi" Ville | I use a sliding gag with a square jointed mouth piece, bent some in the bars. I had a bit maker build it. I really like it. |
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Veteran
Posts: 217
| I can say I honestly hate bit shopping, because every horse can be so different.
How'd she do with the start to finish? Did she feel like she liked the combo aspect more than just a regular bit? Have you found a mouthpiece you feel she can relax in?
What type of curb chain/strap do you have on her?
To try and save on some money, I have rigged some of my bits to see what my guy liked. I had a suspicion he preferred a longer purchase vs a longer shank. I used electrical tape on the gag so the mouthpiece did not travel as far up the gag. This caused the action to be more on the purchase/poll - if that makes sense. We did not run in this bit since I didn't want it getting stuck on the tape, but just to gauge his reaction/headset and feel.
He also liked the combo, but I couldn't get the sweet iron plus the purchase/shank combo without paying quite a bit more.
My solution was switching out a combo for a tie down and had a custom bit ordered from Dutton. Also went with a curb strap that only has the chain in the middle instead of the ones that are full chain. The nose piece seemed to give my gelding some comfort, his tie down isn't very tight but enough that it keeps his brain from rolling out  Lastly he has to have zero wrinkles in the corner of his mouth, he wants to hold his bit himself.
I don't think I was a lot of help, but hopefully gave you some more to think about or tinker with to try and find the correct combination of things for you and her. |
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| Maybe she is just not a bendy turner. Work with her style |
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| I agree. I have a new horse and loping circles and warming up he doesn't give a lot of flex through rib cage and pole but on barre work and runs he if very round. So I'm learning not to pick on him warming up. My other horse is very flexed through pole and rib cage while riding so it's been and adjustment.
Edited by heidiinaz 2018-05-08 10:40 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
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To me bits are an investment. You get what you pay for and I hardly ever sell a bit unless I feel the mechanics of it are bad or it is poorly made in general. You never know when you might jump ride or get something that needs a certain bit or mouthpiece.
You should have everyday riding bits for exercise.
Sometimes they need tuned on or more correction, these are different bits.
And the bit you run them in.
Start you out a collection of quality bits. Learn what works with your hands and always take into consideration what bit they came to you running in and clocking in. |
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| Prairie Rouge - 2018-05-07 10:35 PM
TheDutchMan01 - 2018-05-07 8:17 AM
Is she grabbing the bit going into the turn and getting strong....or just stiff through the turn? If shes stiff your going to want Gag. You may try a 3 piece chain. I find chains just to be a little too flimsy personally, but I love the 3 piece. In all honest I would try a no hit bit. It has made a world of difference on my colt who was strong and stiff (just in everyday riding, not so much in a turn). Kathy James, Ed Wright, or a cervi would be others that I would try. To me these are staples and I can use them on about anything. I mostly use 3 piece twisted wire w/ dog bone in these.
Also, knowing what bits you have used on her that she somewhat liked would be helpful. I would assume shes probably got a harder mouth, but hard to tell without knowing what you have used.
I know 5 bits isn't a ton but nice bits are so expensive and I don't come from a horse family so we don't have a ton of extras lying around. She can get a little grabby with the bit going into a turn, but through slow work I have pretty much resolved that issue.
I wouldn't say she's necessarily hard mouthed, more like somewhere in between hard and soft. She doesn't like an over-bearing bit with super long shanks that is harsh. But when we get ready to run/run in a competitive setting and she starts to get a little strong, then I obviously need something that does have a little control so I can bring her back to me. So I have to try and find that perfect middle bit that isn't harsh, but also gives me a little control if needed, lol.
And she works fine in the bits that I have tried her in but I just haven't found that one that I can feel her really click with and accept, if that makes sense.
I have tried:
-Jr. cowhorse bits
-Sherry Cervi with limited gag
-Martha Josey start to finish bit
-Currently trying a 3-piece bit with medium gag and slightly longer shanks. Sort of like this:
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/westen-at-dot-dogbone-long-slidin...
What mouthpieces? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | Prairie Rouge - 2018-05-07 10:35 PM
TheDutchMan01 - 2018-05-07 8:17 AM
Is she grabbing the bit going into the turn and getting strong....or just stiff through the turn? If shes stiff your going to want Gag. You may try a 3 piece chain. I find chains just to be a little too flimsy personally, but I love the 3 piece. In all honest I would try a no hit bit. It has made a world of difference on my colt who was strong and stiff (just in everyday riding, not so much in a turn). Kathy James, Ed Wright, or a cervi would be others that I would try. To me these are staples and I can use them on about anything. I mostly use 3 piece twisted wire w/ dog bone in these.
Also, knowing what bits you have used on her that she somewhat liked would be helpful. I would assume shes probably got a harder mouth, but hard to tell without knowing what you have used.
I know 5 bits isn't a ton but nice bits are so expensive and I don't come from a horse family so we don't have a ton of extras lying around. She can get a little grabby with the bit going into a turn, but through slow work I have pretty much resolved that issue.
I wouldn't say she's necessarily hard mouthed, more like somewhere in between hard and soft. She doesn't like an over-bearing bit with super long shanks that is harsh. But when we get ready to run/run in a competitive setting and she starts to get a little strong, then I obviously need something that does have a little control so I can bring her back to me. So I have to try and find that perfect middle bit that isn't harsh, but also gives me a little control if needed, lol.
And she works fine in the bits that I have tried her in but I just haven't found that one that I can feel her really click with and accept, if that makes sense.
I have tried:
-Jr. cowhorse bits
-Sherry Cervi with limited gag
-Martha Josey start to finish bit
-Currently trying a 3-piece bit with medium gag and slightly longer shanks. Sort of like this:
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/westen-at-dot-dogbone-long-slidin...
I know what you mean it can be a challenge to find "the bit" sometimes. Really any of the ones I mentioned would be good to try and they are great investments to have. Ed Wright and a Cervi are going to be pretty similar but the Cervi has a heavier shank. I think the Ed Wright may have a bit longer shank. I think its closer to an 8". I typically like a 7" shank the best...its just enough but not so long that its too harsh. My older horse can get stiff in a turn and I've ridden him in a cervi most of his career. I have also used a million dollar bit which works great too. It has a little more control and some horses like the nose band. |
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Veteran
Posts: 126
Location: NE | My mom bought me the Charmayne James 'Grasshopper' for Christmas and I really like it. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Have you tryed a hackamore of some kind? |
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 BHW New Catch of the Day
Posts: 9883
Location: Missouri | See if someone you know has a Kathy James you can borrow. It's a reverse gag and gives a horse alot of bend. (Get the two piece twisted, not the dog bone) So much so that I'm actually switching to working him in that and running in an Ed Wright long shank to lesson the bend a tad and give me more whoa. He is a very long bodied horse with a long stride and very strong and I never dreamed he'd get so noodly.
I had my horse with Marne Loosenort and she starts alot of her 3 year olds with that bit for bend. Just came back from a 3 day clinic with her and after a year of running him in the Kathy James she wants to switch him at a run to the Ed Wright.
Added note: Marne has THE BEST clinic I've ever been to! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Tbred - 2018-05-08 2:21 PM
See if someone you know has a Kathy James you can borrow. It's a reverse gag and gives a horse alot of bend. (Get the two piece twisted, not the dog bone) So much so that I'm actually switching to working him in that and running in an Ed Wright long shank to lesson the bend a tad and give me more whoa. He is a very long bodied horse with a long stride and very strong and I never dreamed he'd get so noodly.
I had my horse with Marne Loosenort and she starts alot of her 3 year olds with that bit for bend. Just came back from a 3 day clinic with her and after a year of running him in the Kathy James she wants to switch him at a run to the Ed Wright.
Added note: Marne has THE BEST clinic I've ever been to!
I second the Kathy James bit.
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-07 4:09 PM
Tbred - 2018-05-08 2:21 PM
See if someone you know has a Kathy James you can borrow. It's a reverse gag and gives a horse alot of bend. (Get the two piece twisted, not the dog bone) So much so that I'm actually switching to working him in that and running in an Ed Wright long shank to lesson the bend a tad and give me more whoa. He is a very long bodied horse with a long stride and very strong and I never dreamed he'd get so noodly.
I had my horse with Marne Loosenort and she starts alot of her 3 year olds with that bit for bend. Just came back from a 3 day clinic with her and after a year of running him in the Kathy James she wants to switch him at a run to the Ed Wright.
Added note: Marne has THE BEST clinic I've ever been to!
I second the Kathy James bit.
I like Kathy James bit and a No Hit bit........had success with both on helping a horse come around the barrel better especially the roll back style. |
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  Veteran
Posts: 241
| Neil Merrill long or medium shank, I prefer the long shank because it really just has more purchase so you get a little more lift and bend out of it but it is not harsh or overly strong. He has a chain mouthpiece and a 3 piece dogbone that I really like! I used to run my big, strong mare in the long shank and it worked really well for her, she was naturally not super flexible because she has a shorter neck and a very wise chest lol, but this bit gave us the bend we needed.
www.merrillbits.com |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 410
Location: Comanche, TX | I like the Johnson Hackamore. It has the chain mouthpiece you are looking for with a nope noseband. |
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**I'm SICK of trying new bits!!!!!!!!!!!!!