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Veteran
Posts: 195
 
| I have a 10 yr old gelding that was diagnosed with RAO 2 yrs ago. The vets now say it is more IAD. I am at my wits end with him. He has beenn refusing to go since January and I think it is because he has a hard time to breath. I have had hocks x rayed, chiropratic work done. Without going into great detail has to what I have done with him here is a little history. I had a BAL done in 2016 and they diagnosed him as RAO. Did prednisolone treatment, put him on Alfalfa/Timothy cubes, EO3 oil, Flax and 3000 IU's of Vit. e. Since then I have had 2 more BAlLs done and the other vets said he is more IAD. Scoped twice for EIPH and ulcers. No signs of bleeding or ulcers. X-rayed hocks, good. Now I have him on a neublizer with Budesnoide and Ipratropium along with Equipulmin He is fed Alfalfa/Timothy cubes, Original Safechoice with EO3 oil and Presrve PS ( Vit. c, magnesium, selinium, vit e.) He is still refusing at the gate. Just stops and locks up. HE will usually cough once at a walk and once at a trot. But the last couple weeks I tried to introduce him to the pasture and he was out for about a half hr twice and now he coughs all day long so I have taken him off the pasture. It has been about a week and he is still coughing bad. I have been giving him Equipulmin and Neublizer to clear it up.
I am open to anyother suggestions or ideas. Thank-you!!!!!!! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
| Wow, you have done a lot already. What about getting him allergy tested? |
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Veteran
Posts: 195
| I haven't done that yet but have thought of it. Some people say its not worth the money. What type of allergy test would you suggest? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
| keepemup - 2018-06-14 9:26 AM
I haven't done that yet but have thought of it. Some people say its not worth the money. What type of allergy test would you suggest?
I can't help with what type. I am not super familiar with them...but you've exhausted a lot of possibilities. I would ask your vet or contact a local university and see what they recommend. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
Location: Lost in the swamps | My gelding has IAD due to summer pastures RAO.
I have to stall him in the summer, wet feed, hay. Keep him under a fan.
I scopeded, and BAL washed, And all that good stuff.
But I have never had him refuse the ally because of it.
I'm wondering if you don't have something else going on somewhere.
But, i have seen them do some weird things because of the simplest of things.
Has the scope showed any damage in his airways?
A dynamic scope might help identify collapsing during work.
If he's baulking I would find the best lameness vet you can find and get a full workup. Maybe check into a equine chiropractor.
I've know this one horse that bulk due to something simple like needing his teeth done. Once his teeth were floated he stops bulking.
Edited by imturnin3 2018-06-14 9:44 AM
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| ok granted i have not been aaround the horses that much since accident but seriously i think people ae over reacting and... they are horses they are supposed to be
pretty hardy but we pamper them we don/t let them be a horse just my opionion but i ran horses for 35 plus years never had issuses like i see now
so i wonder sometime if ves need more $$$ or.. jst a thought |
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Veteran
Posts: 195
| The chiropractor that I have work on him is really good and has only been able to fnd a few issues that shouldn't cause him to be this bad. We did run him Lasix but the vet doesn't think he is a true bleeder. He did have signs of some hemorraging in his 2nd BAL but the vet thinks it is because of the IAD. He was on Lasix when he started to refuse. No damage in the airways. He has been checked for lameness issue but nothing was found. I might have it done again.
I am to the point to find him another career.LOL |
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Veteran
Posts: 195
| LOL my thoughts exactly. I had take a few years off from running and wanted to get back into it to just have some fun and it has turned out to be a nightmare. LOL I agree with you about all the things that are done now but this is actually an issue. I don't pamper my horses that much but I would like to get him to running again but it is about to break the bank.LOL
I keep thinking that if I can just find the right things to do he will come back. I don't want to give up on him because he is a nice horse. I started him when I bought him and he was just starting to make some nice runs. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | After the nebulizer and Equipulmin, is his breathing better?? Does he have the heeve line? does he pant? I have one that heeves. With ventipulmin and a nebulizer of albuterol about a half hour prior to a run-he's a fire breathing dragon and ready to go-his physical heeve symptoms are gone after the nebulizer. If you're not seeing that flank panting or head hanging panting, I'm going to say you have other physical things going on. Having hocks xrayed is one thing-having a good lameness eval done is much more helpful. I'm surprised the amount of issues in my horses in their stifles and it is very apparant with a good lameness exam, followed with ultrasound or x rays and then treat accordingly. |
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Veteran
Posts: 195
| LMS - 2018-06-15 9:27 AM
After the nebulizer and Equipulmin, is his breathing better?? Does he have the heeve line? does he pant? I have one that heeves. With ventipulmin and a nebulizer of albuterol about a half hour prior to a run-he's a fire breathing dragon and ready to go-his physical heeve symptoms are gone after the nebulizer. If you're not seeing that flank panting or head hanging panting, I'm going to say you have other physical things going on. Having hocks xrayed is one thing-having a good lameness eval done is much more helpful. I'm surprised the amount of issues in my horses in their stifles and it is very apparant with a good lameness exam, followed with ultrasound or x rays and then treat accordingly.
He doesn't have a heave line. The only thing is his breathing is more heavy sounding. At the first he did have some white nasal discharge but that hasn't been has bad. I don't see that much of a difference in his breathing after treatment he will just cough more. He has quite a bit of mucus in his trach when they did the BAL.
As for the lameness he has no signs of being sore or off but there could still be something. It might not be so much f the breathing so maybe I should do a more thorough exam. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Contact Joy Cameron on FB, she sells a great lung product. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| vjls - 2018-06-14 9:44 AM ok granted i have not been aaround the horses that much since accident but seriously i think people ae over reacting and... they are horses they are supposed to be
pretty hardy but we pamper them we don/t let them be a horse just my opionion but i ran horses for 35 plus years never had issuses like i see now
so i wonder sometime if ves need more $$$ or.. jst a thought
When the horse is coughing and has discharge there is something going on. Untreated lung conditions can cause scaring on the lungs and end careers. I do agree that horses have a ton more ailments then 50 years ago. I wonder if it is environmental, more processef feeds or what it is making their immune system so weak. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Your horse is exactly like mine! I have him off of hay on alfalfa cubes. He was diagnosed when he was 4 with copd but as time progressed it is more like iad. I would hope it wouldn't be copd so young. If it is copd it means there is actual irreversible damage to the lungs. Iad has no damage. He ended up having mast cell derived iad that I had to treat with Budesonide and sodium cromolyn. Sodium cromolyn is a mast cell inhibitor. After I got that under control it was just management. I did however, and it is probably a good idea for you to do, is find a person that specializes in respiratory disease. If you have budesonide I assume your vet is specialized enough. Anyways they should do a lung function test on him. See if his airway noise is effecting the oxygen up take in his lungs. I have another piece of my horses airway problem. After I treated for mast cell iad and changd feed and management I still had issues with him getting out of air. I took him to a respiratory specialist and had them put them on a treadmill and they found out that he has an additional issue with his Airway that's an upper Airway obstruction. He has pharyngeal collapse... there's other issues that may be wrong with your horse besides just inflamed Airway like some sort of Airway collapse or upper Airway obstruction like flapper or displacing soft palate. A lot of times when horses have inflammation going on in their airway they also have problems with displacing their soft palate.. Have they ultrasounded his lungs? Or did the lung function test? Can you get somewhere where the vet has a dynamic scope you can see what is going on when you ride? I pre race exactly what you use. I do itrapropium and budesonide. I also Lasix. |
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Veteran
Posts: 195
| WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-06-15 11:58 AM Your horse is exactly like mine! I have him off of hay on alfalfa cubes. He was diagnosed when he was 4 with copd but as time progressed it is more like iad. I would hope it wouldn't be copd so young. If it is copd it means there is actual irreversible damage to the lungs. Iad has no damage. He ended up having mast cell derived iad that I had to treat with Budesonide and sodium cromolyn. Sodium cromolyn is a mast cell inhibitor. After I got that under control it was just management. I did however, and it is probably a good idea for you to do, is find a person that specializes in respiratory disease. If you have budesonide I assume your vet is specialized enough. Anyways they should do a lung function test on him. See if his airway noise is effecting the oxygen up take in his lungs. I have another piece of my horses airway problem. After I treated for mast cell iad and changd feed and management I still had issues with him getting out of air. I took him to a respiratory specialist and had them put them on a treadmill and they found out that he has an additional issue with his Airway that's an upper Airway obstruction. He has pharyngeal collapse... there's other issues that may be wrong with your horse besides just inflamed Airway like some sort of Airway collapse or upper Airway obstruction like flapper or displacing soft palate. A lot of times when horses have inflammation going on in their airway they also have problems with displacing their soft palate.. Have they ultrasounded his lungs? Or did the lung function test? Can you get somewhere where the vet has a dynamic scope you can see what is going on when you ride? I pre race exactly what you use. I do itrapropium and budesonide. I also Lasix.
He does sound exactly your horse. I haven't done any Ultra sound or lung function test done yet. We did xray his lungs with the first BAL and they looked good. How does a Dynamic scope work?
I did read about the Sodium Cromolyn and am going to ask the vet. The new vets want to put him Interferon . Was that ever mentioned to you?
Thank-you for your input! |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | interesting, is the white discharge milky?? Ever treat for a sinus/lung infection? Antibiotics? Maybe a WBC is in order. Mine had 1 infection long ago, we treated with abx and he was great for awhile, now I see the signs and seem to be able to get it under control quickly. If he's had dental work done in the last few months I would definitely do a WBC to rule out an infection as sometimes (rarely) teeth can break causing sinus infection and ultimately lung issues. If what you're nebulizing him with works, i would think you would see an improvement in his air movement (the flanks don't move so hard to move air) Think of an asthmatic with a rescue inhaler. |
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Veteran
Posts: 195
| LMS - 2018-06-15 3:38 PM interesting, is the white discharge milky?? Ever treat for a sinus/lung infection? Antibiotics? Maybe a WBC is in order. Mine had 1 infection long ago, we treated with abx and he was great for awhile, now I see the signs and seem to be able to get it under control quickly. If he's had dental work done in the last few months I would definitely do a WBC to rule out an infection as sometimes (rarely) teeth can break causing sinus infection and ultimately lung issues. If what you're nebulizing him with works, i would think you would see an improvement in his air movement (the flanks don't move so hard to move air) Think of an asthmatic with a rescue inhaler.
The white milky discharge is a symptom of RAO and IAD. I have had blood work done and everything came back goog. Thanks for the suggestion. |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | So, according to the Merck Veterinary Manual it sounds like the new vets idea of interferon is a good one. With the profile from the BAL there is a little different way to treat to reduce the mucous and ultimately help increase performance https://www.merckvetmanual.com/respiratory-system/respiratory-diseases-of-horses/inflammatory-airway-disease-in-horses
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Cur-Ost products and Dr. Schell helped me with a very difficult case about 3 years ago and got it under control in less than 30 days. Never had another issue. Here is a link to one of the articles that led me to them. https://nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/401-to-breathe-or-not-to-breathe-copd-i-a-d |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| keepemup - 2018-06-14 1:08 PM
WetSaddleBlankets - 2018-06-15 11:58 AM Your horse is exactly like mine! I have him off of hay on alfalfa cubes. He was diagnosed when he was 4 with copd but as time progressed it is more like iad. I would hope it wouldn't be copd so young. If it is copd it means there is actual irreversible damage to the lungs. Iad has no damage. He ended up having mast cell derived iad that I had to treat with Budesonide and sodium cromolyn. Sodium cromolyn is a mast cell inhibitor. After I got that under control it was just management. I did however, and it is probably a good idea for you to do, is find a person that specializes in respiratory disease. If you have budesonide I assume your vet is specialized enough. Anyways they should do a lung function test on him. See if his airway noise is effecting the oxygen up take in his lungs. I have another piece of my horses airway problem. After I treated for mast cell iad and changd feed and management I still had issues with him getting out of air. I took him to a respiratory specialist and had them put them on a treadmill and they found out that he has an additional issue with his Airway that's an upper Airway obstruction. He has pharyngeal collapse... there's other issues that may be wrong with your horse besides just inflamed Airway like some sort of Airway collapse or upper Airway obstruction like flapper or displacing soft palate. A lot of times when horses have inflammation going on in their airway they also have problems with displacing their soft palate.. Have they ultrasounded his lungs? Or did the lung function test? Can you get somewhere where the vet has a dynamic scope you can see what is going on when you ride? I pre race exactly what you use. I do itrapropium and budesonide. I also Lasix.
He does sound exactly your horse. I haven't done any Ultra sound or lung function test done yet. We did xray his lungs with the first BAL and they looked good. How does a Dynamic scope work?
I did read about the Sodium Cromolyn and am going to ask the vet. The new vets want to put him Interferon . Was that ever mentioned to you?
Thank-you for your input!
The dynamic scope is just a scope they can use to look while you ride. The other option is getting him scoped while on a treadmill. My vet didn't treat with interferon because my horse never had a lot of mucus or coughed. He was alway really dry and never coughed. Just wouldn't recover and had really bad exercise intolerance. He does get the white foamy discharge though while exercising but other then that he is dry. That was also another reason why they pointed to iad instead of copd. Interferon would probably benefit your horse because he is coughing. The only negative thing I've heard with interferon is the more they use it on a horse the more they eventually stop responding to it. But it would definitely be worth a try! |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| rodeomom3 - 2018-06-14 11:16 AM
vjls - 2018-06-14 9:44 AM ok granted i have not been aaround the horses that much since accident but seriously i think people ae over reacting and... they are horses they are supposed to be
pretty hardy but we pamper them we don/t let them be a horse just my opionion but i ran horses for 35 plus years never had issuses like i see now
so i wonder sometime if ves need more $$$ or.. jst a thought
When the horse is coughing and has discharge there is something going on. Untreated lung conditions can cause scaring on the lungs and end careers. I do agree that horses have a ton more ailments then 50 years ago. I wonder if it is environmental, more processef feeds or what it is making their immune system so weak.
I agree.. If you have ever had a horse with copd or iad you'd understand... Or a bleeder left untreated. The damaging effect of respiratory disease in the lower airway can be permanent and actually shorten a horse's life. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 623
Location: /ARKANSAS | sorry to but in guys, but what are all these acronyms stand for? I am a APRN and have never heard these used. anywhere.IAD BAL etc please educate me
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| fastwrapn3 - 2018-06-15 12:04 PMsorry to but in guys, but what are all these acronyms stand for? I am a APRN and have never heard these used. anywhere.IAD BAL etc please educate me LOL laugh out loud.... Bal Bronchoalveolar lavage..... Iad inflammatory airway disease.... Rao recurrent airway obstruction (same as copd)..... Copd Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (same as rao)
Edited by WetSaddleBlankets 2018-06-15 12:23 PM
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Help! Horse with IAD